Mushroom cloud, or whatever...

[Pardalis]

Here's a thread where Truthseeker1234 can discuss his wild theory.

[beachnut]

Here's a thread where Truthseeker1234 can discuss his wild theory.
Was the other tower still standing and burning? TS37 is challenged in research. He was talking about temp, and density. I wonder if the air at 1300 feet was less dense then the air at 50 feet.

Some one tell TS the last 500 feet down is a one of the biggest changes in pressure/density for any other 500 feet you can compare in the atmosphere.

[boloboffin]

Okay, repeating my question, is there anywhere else in the world a mushroom cloud that goes DOWN instead of UP?

[beachnut]

About Australia - down under the mushroom cloud goes down!

[defaultdotxbe]

About Australia - down under the mushroom cloud goes down!
and they spin the other way, lol

[Brainster]

Okay, repeating my question, is there anywhere else in the world a mushroom cloud that goes DOWN instead of UP?

When it's an implosion, not an explosion.

:D

[R.Mackey]

Okay, repeating my question, is there anywhere else in the world a mushroom cloud that goes DOWN instead of UP?

Depends on your definition.

A classical, A-bomb type mushroom cloud is due to heating effects creating a density gradient in the fluid, and does so through Rayleigh-Taylor instability (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayleigh-Taylor_instability). This specific mechanism requires a density difference between fluids, and is thus driven by gravity. Therefore you cannot have one that grows "down," unless you have a very strange heating profile, one that could not be created by a single explosion.

However, you can get similar shapes through simple mechanical motion. If, for instance, your explosion pushed a giant piston, moving a volume of air with the same density as the ambient air, you can get a similar shape. In this case, vortex rollup occurs through a different process called Kelvin-Helmholtz instability (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelvin-Helmholtz_instability). In this case, you get a vortex ring because of drag on your jet of air, and not because of density or gravity at all.

The latter case is valid if you consider the defining feature of a "mushroom cloud" to be the vortex ring. There are many processes that create a vortex ring, and thus such a cloud could travel in any direction. But if you insist on the Rayleigh-Taylor mechanism, then I'm afraid it can only go up.

[David Wong]

Now... I'm not an expert, but if an atomic bomb went off, even a small one, would it make a loud sound?

We'll need a scientist to answer that one.

[WildCat]

Now... I'm not an expert, but if an atomic bomb went off, even a small one, would it make a loud sound?
Yes, and also a blinding light brighter than the sun.

[PhantomWolf]

Now... I'm not an expert, but if an atomic bomb went off, even a small one, would it make a loud sound?

That depends, is there anyone there to hear it?

We'll need a scientist to answer that one.

Nope, need a Philosopher. ;)

[Spektator]

Now... I'm not an expert, but if an atomic bomb went off, even a small one, would it make a loud sound?

We'll need a scientist to answer that one.

It would be an earth-shattering kaboom.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Now... I'm not an expert, but if an atomic bomb went off, even a small one, would it make a loud sound?
The brightest of Pottsylvania's scientists have toiled untold hours to develop the next generation of silent weaponry: the Hush-A-Nuke.

[PhantomWolf]

It would be an earth-shattering kaboom.

[Marvin the Martian Mode]Where's the kaboom? There was supposed to be an Earth-shattering Kaboom![/Marvin the Martian Mode]

[R.Mackey]

Now... I'm not an expert, but if an atomic bomb went off, even a small one, would it make a loud sound?

We'll need a scientist to answer that one.
Not entirely. As others have remarked, it takes no extraordinary scientific understanding to answer in the affirmative.

However, it is correct to say that you need a scientist to answer the question with such mind-numbing detail that you wish you had never asked. That's where I come in.

Sound is a pressure wave carried in the atmosphere. Atomic explosions are among those phenomena that create an unusual kind of pressure wave, namely a shock wave (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_wave). The leading edge of the blast is a shock wave, or a sudden jump in the air pressure. Shock waves can be heard after many kinds of explosions (detonations, but not deflagrations) or as sonic booms created by supersonic aircraft. I've heard numerous shock waves, both at airshows and caused by the Space Shuttle (http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/news/FactSheets/FS-016-DFRC.html) re-entering the atmosphere. They exhibit a distinctively sharp sound, one that carries over long distances, and are "loud" even from many miles away.

An atomic bomb, by virtue of its extremely powerful shockwave, creates a very loud sound indeed.

Here you will see a chart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Blastcurves_1.png) describing just how big of a pressure shock one would experience if nearby a small atomic explosion, one of 1 kiloton TNT equivalent, for various ranges of horizontal distance and explosion altitude. As you can see for yourself, a 1 kT explosion would create a shock of 1 PSI at roughly 1400 meters distance, and 7 PSI at a distance of over 400 meters.

In other words, the answer is yes. A 1 kT device would create a sound loud enough to be lethal to anyone within nearly half a klick who wasn't inside a specially prepared bunker. This should satisy virtually anyone's definition of "loud."

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/919345f771cd555d0.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=4568)"No, you can't play with it, you won't enjoy it on as many levels as I do!"

[PhantomWolf]

This should satisy virtually anyone's definition of "loud."

Sorry, no, if the sound kills you before you hear it, then it's not loud. ;)

[R.Mackey]

Tell that to these guys (http://everything2.com/index.pl?node=Disaster%20Area). (You may have to speak up a bit.)

For those of you who don't like the unit PSI, but also don't like Pa, a 1 kiloton atomic blast at 400m is approximately 192 dB SPL. Pretty loud.

[Zep]

About Australia - down under the mushroom cloud goes down!

and they spin the other way, lol

Nope! :)

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/6/6d/250px-Op_hurricane.jpg
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/6/6d/250px-Op_hurricane.jpg

Operation Hurricane, Monte Bello Islands

[Zep]

It would be an earth-shattering kaboom.That's a scientific description, is it?? ;)

[beachnut]

Nope! :)

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/6/6d/250px-Op_hurricane.jpg
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/6/6d/250px-Op_hurricane.jpg

Operation Hurricane, Monte Bello Islands
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1244745f793627ea73.jpgdown under, it is all relative

[Mobyseven]

Not entirely. As others have remarked, it takes no extraordinary scientific understanding to answer in the affirmative.

However, it is correct to say that you need a scientist to answer the question with such mind-numbing detail that you wish you had never asked. That's where I come in.


Hey hey hey! I like the mind-numbing detail. However, it serves to remind me that I would rather be enrolled in a science degree...:(

[gumboot]

Sorry, no, if the sound kills you before you hear it, then it's not loud. ;)


That's exactly what he said, that it would be lethal... :)

-Gumboot

[Comsat Angel]

IIRC, the Special Atomic Demolition Munition could be configured to give a yield as low as 0.05kt. This is minute compared to the city-busting warheads on an ICBM and is the smallest nuke you can get, but it's still 50 tons of TNT. By comparison, I've seen film of 10 tons of TNT being detonated for data before Trinity, and it created a giant fireball visible from miles away.
So - any nuke used would indeed be LOUD and very visible - as long as you were beyond minimum safe distance.

[The Doc]

Nuclear weapons are responsible for the loudest man-made noise ever produced :)

Not to mention severe seismic activity... but who cares, nothing like that matters in Woo-Land©

[Zep]

Unless it's the atomic version of...HUSH-A-BOOM! :D

[Unfit4Command]

Nuclear weapons are responsible for the loudest man-made noise ever produced :)

Not to mention severe seismic activity... but who cares, nothing like that matters in Woo-Land©

But remember, they're "mini-nukes." So they only make an invisible, silent explosion.

[The Doc]

But remember, they're "mini-nukes." So they only make an invisible, silent explosion.

I'm guessing they don't produce fallout either?

:p

[Unfit4Command]

I'm guessing they don't produce fallout either?

:p

Nope, they basically don't exist other than in the imagination.

[The Doc]

Nope, they basically don't exist other than in the imagination.

Lol true.

I once had an argument with a truther about this on another forum. The evidence he provided for these "Mini-Nukes" was a picture of a Russian Suitcase nuke. I think it was around 5 Kilo tonnes lol. More than enough to decimate a rather large portion of NYC.

[gumboot]

I have the perfect solution...

On 9/11 the WTC was craftily enclosed in a vacuum. This not only prevented us form hearing the sounds of explosions (as sound does not travel in a vacuum) but also explains how the buildings managed to fall at freefall speeds. It all makes sense.

-Gumboot

[Cl1mh4224rd]

The Twin Towers were the headquarters for the Guide. They merely relocated to another planet.

[gumboot]

The Twin Towers were the headquarters for the Guide. They merely relocated to another planet.

To make way for the inter-galactic hyperspace freeway?

-Gumboot

[Stellafane]

It wasn't a mushroom cloud. It was a cauliflower cloud. Wrong food group.

(I suspect that by summer, we'll be seeing ice-cream-cone-clouds.)

[~enigma~]

It wasn't a mushroom cloud. It was a cauliflower cloud. Wrong food group.

(I suspect that by summer, we'll be seeing ice-cream-cone-clouds.)
Don't forget Lucy in the sky with diamonds shaped clouds :)

[JimBenArm]

It wasn't a mushroom cloud. It was a cauliflower cloud. Wrong food group.

(I suspect that by summer, we'll be seeing ice-cream-cone-clouds.)
I like ice cream! May I have some?