Why the US Government refuse to manufacture this device

[bruto]

Apparently, I have made claims in this thread that some here cannot believe.


I am not Pro7
An electric motor can be used to charge a battery
2 devices marketed as germanium resistors can be put together to form a rectifier.

I believe these all to be true. But I don't believe it's worth debating in this forum. If you choose to follow Randi's lead and make it worth my effort, I might discuss how I could go about proving these things.

On 1, no opinion.

On 2: Of course an electric motor (or at least many electric motors) can be used to charge a battery - if something else powers it. Motor generators are common, or used to be. A DC generator is simply a shunt-wound DC motor optimized for the use. But an electric motor cannot charge the battery that is running it. A shunt-wound DC motor may "self generate" when it reaches a certain speed at no load, but this does not start to recharge the battery. It simply regulates its top speed. It is still a net consumer with or without a load. I've experimented with this in the past, using an old automotive DC generator as a motor. It works well for fractional horsepower applications like a washing machine. So yes, a motor can be a generator and vice versa, but only one function at a time.

On 3: Any references? The devices mentioned by Pro 7 were germanium resistors, soldered together (not, in other words, in a germanium to germanium junction). He did not describe this construction as a rectifier either in configuration or function. Anyway I have not heard of a pair of resistors being assembled that way to form a rectifier. If you have, and I am wrong, I will eat my words right here, in response to a reasonably informative reference.

[Thabiguy]

Apparently, I have made claims in this thread that some here cannot believe.

Is that so?
1. I am not Pro7Please name a poster in this thread who cannot believe that you are not Pro7.
2. An electric motor can be used to charge a batteryPlease name a poster in this thread who cannot believe that an electric motor can be used to charge a battery.

If someone understands a post differently from what you intended and objects to that, then interpreting that as objecting to your originally intended meaning is a blatant logical fallacy.

3. 2 devices marketed as germanium resistors can be put together to form a rectifier.You made no such claim. You said, and I quote: "a proper configuration of germanium resisters with minimized connections using Woods' metal solder would be preferable to the silicon diodes". Not only does not "configuration of resisters" imply dismantling the resistors and using their components to manufacture a different device, but most importantly you claimed it would be preferable to silicon diodes. You still didn't explain in what regard it would be preferable.

If one says, "The Moon is a big ball of cheese" and people dismiss that as nonsense, it is ridiculous and false to claim that these people don't believe that the Moon is large and spherical.

As for this new claim that you make, "2 devices marketed as germanium resistors can be put together to form a rectifier", I disagree with it, just as I would disagree with the claim that "two apples can be put together to form an orange". Jokes about rearranging the ingredients may be mildly amusing but do not make the statements true.

[Dan O.]

Is that so?

You apparently are more interested in arguing than resolving the issues. It is not worth my while to continue.

[rtalman]

:deadhorse

[robinson]

The original story was bogus, based on the story itself.

[Thabiguy]

You apparently are more interested in arguing than resolving the issues. It is not worth my while to continue.

I am not interested in arguing with you. I have voiced my opinion and will continue to do so at my leisure. You are free to respond to it, try to take something from it, or ignore it altogether. You needn't feel obligated to inform me about your choice, but thanks for the courtesy nevertheless.

I don't think there's anyone here except you who sees any issue to resolve. If I'm wrong and there's someone else here who thinks there are some issues to resolve, please, speak up.

[Fnord]

If I'm wrong and there's someone else here who thinks there are some issues to resolve, please, speak up.

:twocents: I'm still interested in exactly how the RS Audio device works, rather than the emo-tistical attitudes expressed in this thread.

Would someone who has dis-assembled the device please read off the part numbers, colored bands, et cetera, on each of the components?

By the way, I used MS Paint to make that schematic.

-Fnord of Dyscordia-

[Dan O.]

:twocents: I'm still interested in exactly how the RS Audio device works, rather than the emo-tistical attitudes expressed in this thread.

Which RS Audio device is that? I just scanned the whole PS Noise Harvester thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=70890) thinking that might be what you were referring to. You schematic (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2446613&postcount=730) at the end allowed me to regain my sanity but I don't think I want to go through that again.

[MortFurd]

:twocents: I'm still interested in exactly how the RS Audio device works, rather than the emo-tistical attitudes expressed in this thread.

Would someone who has dis-assembled the device please read off the part numbers, colored bands, et cetera, on each of the components?

By the way, I used MS Paint to make that schematic.

-Fnord of Dyscordia-

:jaw-dropp :eye-poppi :eek:

[MRC_Hans]

What do you get if you have 2 dissimilar pieces of germanium in contact with each other and wires soldered to the opposite ends?

Nothing useful. This is a common misconception arising from symbolic drawings of PN juctions. However, a diode is not just a block of P semiconductor and block of N semiconductor put together. There are mechanical constraints and they need to be part of the same crystal.

I think this whole thread was a joke.

That is quite possible.

But aside from post #17, where did Pro7 make any claim that could not be true?

Starting in post 1. I'm not going to reiterate the rest of the nonsense.

Hans

[MRC_Hans]

I am not Pro7

I don't really care.

An electric motor can be used to charge a battery

Ehr, yes. However, that was not what was originally claimed here, unless you are seriously claiming that Pro7 was implying that he pushed his toy truck around for 8 months.

2 devices marketed as germanium resistors can be put together to form a rectifier.

Very unlikely to form an even marginally functional rectifier. Certainly not one that is more efficient than a silicon rectifier, like you also claimed.

I believe these all to be true. But I don't believe it's worth debating in this forum. If you choose to follow Randi's lead and make it worth my effort, I might discuss how I could go about proving these things.

Why should we make it worth your effort? What useful have you contributed, so far?

Hans

[Dan O.]

Ehr, yes. However, that was not what was originally claimed here, unless you are seriously claiming that Pro7 was implying that he pushed his toy truck around for 8 months.

He appears to have carefully chosen his words to leave that possibility open.

[Fnord]

:jaw-dropp :eye-poppi :eek:

This surprises you?

For "Quick-and-Dirty" drawings, MsPaint is all I need. For symbolic drawings, I have Visio. For layered drawings, I have AutoCad. There are three more packages for converting schematics to board layout and trace runs, and perhaps a half-dozen more graphics packages on my shelf, and most of them are still in the shrink-wrap!

Considering that "Back in the Day" we used to used india ink on paper, and even MsPaint is an improvement!

[rtalman]

In according to those 2 schematic diagrams I put together, its virtually unlimited to what it can be used for. In the back of my mind when I studied about computers and electronics.. this device "can be converted into a computer chip that will act like a alternating device"..

Imagine...

A chip with the same simple schematic diagrams, installed in anything that has a rechargeable battery pack. It would never be needed to plug into the wall socket to keep it recharged.


He appears to have carefully chosen his words to leave that possibility open.
So all I have to do is put an electric alternator and wheels on my cell phone and push it around like a toy car...
:mgduh

[Fnord]

So all I have to do is put an electric alternator and wheels on my cell phone and push it around like a toy car...
:mgduh

Actually, an electric generator, a bridge rectifier, and a current regulator.

But, yeah, you're right.

You can buy the generators at any bicycle shop, the recifiers at Radio Shack, and put an incandescent lamp in series to regulate the charging current. This is called a "Floating" charger.

Post some pics, willya?

[rtalman]

Actually, an electric generator, a bridge rectifier, and a current regulator.

According to the original post, it can all fit neatly into one chip.
But the US Government refuse to manufacture this device
:tinfoil

[Fnord]

According to the original post, it can all fit neatly into one chip.
But the US Government refuse to manufacture this device
:tinfoil

Well ... the functions can be duplicated in a chip, but you won't get much power out of a miniaturized generator. In fact, there are microminiaturized motors in existance. Rectifiers AND regulators are on chips already, and have been for over 20 years!

So, Why doesn't the Government make these devices? The government doesn't have to, because:

1) They already exist as discrete functional blocks!
2) They're made by every major manufacturer of integrated circuits.
3) The government purchases these items pre-manufactured for exhorbiant prices.

Why build the cow when you can buy it pre-made?

[rtalman]

Well ... the functions can be duplicated in a chip, but you won't get much power out of a miniaturized generator. In fact, there are microminiaturized motors in existance. Rectifiers AND regulators are on chips already, and have been for over 20 years!

So, Why doesn't the Government make these devices? The government doesn't have to, because:

1) They already exist as discrete functional blocks!
2) They're made by every major manufacturer of integrated circuits.
3) The government purchases these items pre-manufactured for exorbiant prices.

Why build the cow when you can buy it pre-made?

You have convinced me!

Your strength in The Force is greater than mine.
:jedi:

Please feel free to go forth and create the synergistic Hot Wheels/Nokia.

[Fnord]

You have convinced me!

Your strength in The Force is greater than mine.
:jedi:

Please feel free to go forth and create the synergistic Hot Wheels/Nokia.


Well you have done! Great in you, the force is. Know this, you should: the same, reality and theory are not. Need such a device, you do not. Build such a device, I will not. Try, I will not.

Go, you shall. Oprah, I must watch. Hottie, she is!

[Hokulele]

LOL

I have several screennames in JREF. lol. they will never find out (not by IP addy either! )

Ban me all you like.

I had fun here.. at least I completed my objection. Thats all I care about.


(Bolding mine.) Guess that wasn't true either. Link (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2454153#post2454153).

[rtalman]

(Bolding mine.) Guess that wasn't true either. Link (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2454153#post2454153).
BAM!:k:

[Dan O.]

So all I have to do is put an electric alternator and wheels on my cell phone and push it around like a toy car...
:mgduh

Or you could just buy one here (http://www.thetravelinsider.info/roadwarriorcontent/sidewinder.htm) packaged with a convenient crank so you don't have to find a surface to run it on

[rtalman]

Or you could just buy one here (http://www.thetravelinsider.info/roadwarriorcontent/sidewinder.htm) packaged with a convenient crank so you don't have to find a surface to run it on
But then I would have no reason for racing stripes or NOS stickers.:D

[bruto]

Or you could just buy one here (http://www.thetravelinsider.info/roadwarriorcontent/sidewinder.htm) packaged with a convenient crank so you don't have to find a surface to run it on

No no, it's a potential perpetual motion machine! Forget the fancy schmancy germanium doodads and stuff. All you have to do is put a crankpin on one wheel of your toy car, duct tape the charger to the top, and then when the car goes, it will crank the charger and charge its own batteries. It will go forever and ever and ever (and may be ever and ever...), and if you run it fast enough, it will charge more and more batteries, until you rule the world.

I'm going over to the Challenge forum to start applying for my million bucks.

[strathmeyer]

I don't get it, why is sock puppetry so hard? I think I'll give it a try just so I can make fun of others who can't do it.

[robinson]

Say bye bye.

[jsiv]

As a devoted follower of Pro7's free energy science, he has shared his latest research with me in private:

Hi Jsiv,
As a advice, please do not post it on the forum or anywhere else. They dont deserve to see it.

As a general rule, Im not going to input any mathematical formulas for this schematics.

This schematic is for a real automobile, and as a general rule, its usually the descript of

Battery>>>device>>>battery

And you can convert it to lower modulations for a remote controlled toy. This schematic is flexible. This schematic is the first of its kind to represent a "transistorizing capacitor" unit.

You'll be surprised just how similiar this schematic diagram is to the basic one you made on the forum.
:)


http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_544046057dd2c51e1.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=4765)


(Yes, I know.)

[Fnord]

That schematic is for a battery-operated phase-shift oscillator. It does nothing more than drain energy from the battery and produce heat -- there is not even a designated output port!

He's trying to pass off an Electronics 101 circuit as a sophisticated "Free-Energy" device. This device does not violate any physical laws, nor does it create energy. Just how ignorant does he think we are?

... as much as he?

And FYI: There is no similarity to my schematic.

[jimbob]

Go, you shall. Oprah, I must watch. Hottie, she is!


Why don't you start a discusion about whether beauty is subjective or objective...

This was in response to comments apparently made by Bubblefish in another thread. Specifically, he made the claim that the statement, "Angelina Jolie is a beautiful woman," is an objective statement. He has further claimed that beauty is at the same time BOTH objective and subjective.

This slight derail is only because Fnord (especially) has cpomprehensively debunked this... though your diagram was less suitable than JSIV's:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2429912#post2429912

Jim

[bruto]

And FYI: There is no similarity to my schematic.

Aw come on, coach. It's got like lines an' squiggles an' all that neat engineering stuff in it. And it's even the same color.

[MRC_Hans]

As a devoted follower of Pro7's free energy science, he has shared his latest research with me in private:


(Yes, I know.)That guy is one sick puppy. I had a colleague like that (before he was institutionalized). He would also make strange diagrams and claim they did various weird things.

At least that circuit will do something. It will oscillate at some non-descript frequency, mainly determined by R1 and C2. How he even imagines that it could charge the battery (let alone charge it with more power than it drains), is beyond me.

Hans

[Thabiguy]

That guy is one sick puppy. I had a colleague like that (before he was institutionalized). He would also make strange diagrams and claim they did various weird things.

Maybe the guy isn't outright sick. I used to be like that, too. I made various strange diagrams and plans for unworkable devices and imagined they did the most amazing things. And I was telling my peers stories that were completely made up. It didn't feel like lying, as I was not trying to cover up anything or get any unfair advantage. Engaging in these fantasies seemed harmless, it was just a game of make believe. And sometimes the people around would play along. After all, I was eight.

When I was eleven and starting to learn physics, I also made plans for my own free energy device. :D I really believed it would work and not even my physics teacher could convince me otherwise. - Later, of course, I grew up, learned more about physics and realized myself it wouldn't work. And I realized that reality can be even more exciting than naive stuff made-up from ignorance. And that it's not okay to claim things that aren't real, nor is it necessary to suppress your vivid imagination, for there are ways to make use of creativity and suspension of disbelief to both yours and others' enjoyment - writing, acting, role-playing games, story art, animation, etc.

So if Pro7 is a young teen (have you read his 'you-are-gay' insults?), I don't really blame him for making up stuff; he can still grow out of it. And if not, oh well. I have a friend who is well into his twenties and still likes to make up nonsense. Some people are bothered by that, but I don't really mind; I know he leads a boring life and wants to believe that all these cool things are happening to him. He's nice to others and fun to hang around with, so I don't find it worth to severe the friendship by confronting him. Sometimes when he goes too far, I just ask him a simple favor that would be trivial to do if he was telling the truth but very difficult otherwise. I found this very effective in keeping his fantasies at a reasonable level. ;)

[trvlr2]

Thabiguy-maybe you should become a scout leader, you like hanging with kids so much?

[Thabiguy]

Thanks for the tip, trvlr2, but I think I'll pass. While occasionally babysitting my friends' and relatives' children can be fun, I don't think I would want to do that as my job. I don't like loud noises and the pay, I hear, is rather poor.

[e-sabbath]

So all I have to do is put an electric alternator and wheels on my cell phone and push it around like a toy car...
:mgduh
You know, you could sell these as execu-toys or for hikers.

Hmmmm. I wonder how much it would cost and how much effort it would take to make a flywheel powered cellphone charger.

[Fnord]

You know, you could sell these as execu-toys or for hikers.

Hmmmm. I wonder how much it would cost and how much effort it would take to make a flywheel powered cellphone charger.

Like this? (http://www.cetsolar.com/dynacellcharger.htm)

(Repeated link)

[rtalman]

Like this? (http://www.cetsolar.com/dynacellcharger.htm)

(Repeated link)
But that is not as cool as a little race car that doubles as a cellphone.

I could easily see one making it's way into the Hammacher Schlemmer catalog.

Start production now, and you could be ready for the xmas shopping season.

[termite37]

I have been watching this topic for the longest time. I decided to join JREF.

I know who Tek Investigation is in Idaho. Whoever dare to impersonate them in any forums or any websites deserves to be throughly investigated.

Nice try, Mr. Stacey. It gives Tek Investigation more reason to throw you in the slammer.

David B.
Computer Investigative Services, utah

[Freethinker]

.....After all, I was eight.



Whoa! Half way through the first paragraph, I had made the decision to put you into my "This guy's a nut!" category. You had me going.:th:

[Thomas1016]

what is the point of you coming on here and even say anything if your not willing to demonstrate your invention. I find it hard to believe after spending so much time on it to and seeing it work you would burn the schematics. I think you sound more like B.S. artist who craves attention. there are many patent attorneys who would gladly help you and provide money to develop it if it was what you claim it to be.

[Iamme]

What do you get if you have 2 dissimilar pieces of germanium in contact with each other and wires soldered to the opposite ends?

I think this whole thread was a joke. But aside from post #17, where did Pro7 make any claim that could not be true?

When I read the entire OP...the whole thing... I thought ...Joe Newman...revisited. But then I thought...hey, maybe this is an April Fools joke. So I went back to look. :)

I am getting a kick out of you electrical engineer types grappling with the diodes and such stuff. It is obvious to anyone with just common sense, who does not understand anything more about electricty than how you get shocked in your house when you touch the metal corner bead...that you can't have an electrical run device run itself on the same elctriciity, or mechanical conversion of it, created from it being run.

Alternators work in accomplishing what they do because they are driven by a much more powerful engine that only needs a teeny weeny fraction of that electrical power back, in order to create the spark which then in turn can blast the alternator around in circles again. Very different from his supposed made and working device which must consume the very energy that it is creating by at LEAST 100%.

I just wish the guy didn't get suspended, (I wonder why?..dad rat it) as posts like this to me are like eating caviar...not that I ever have, but you know what I mean.

...............

Sort of ironically...that new tv show called "Are you smarter than a 5th grader?", is on right now. :)

[bruto]

I just wish the guy didn't get suspended, (I wonder why?..dad rat it) as posts like this to me are like eating caviar...not that I ever have, but you know what I mean.


It really is one of those threads that's hard to resist, isn't it? I suppose when Pro7 boasted about how he was getting away with using sock puppets, the next step was sort of predictable.

[fuelair]

Or you could just buy one here (http://www.thetravelinsider.info/roadwarriorcontent/sidewinder.htm) packaged with a convenient crank so you don't have to find a surface to run it on
I thought (well, am darn sure) the OPer of this thread was a convenient crank.

[robinson]

Really?