The Flat Earth Conspiracy

[B-Man]

Hey just for a change, let's do something other than terrorists & supposedly ficticious airliners & government conspiracies.

Well okay, it's still a government conspiracy - The Flat Earth Society.
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum//index.php

Looks like some people really believe that the Earth is flat and the public are being lied to that it's spherical. The air & water is held on the flat plate by the huge ice walls that surround the Earth, and the north pole is the centre of the plate. The entire edge of the plate is the south pole.
The Sun is much much smaller than we're told, and it moves around above the plate in circles to make day & night and the seasons.
We can't see all the way across the plate because of the dirty atmosphere.

It's a ripper, isn't it?

[uk_dave]

So why do you see a ships mast over the 'horizon' before the hull?

huh? huh?

[Pardalis]

This is the summum of idiocy. I wouldn't know where to start.

[zeppy_gorrila]

When I flew to Japan last summer, they told me not to look outside of the plane. There was an ice wall, thick as could be. I couldn't believe my eyes, nor can I fathom the stupidity required to believe this theory.

[EternalSceptic]

When I flew to Japan last summer, they told me not to look outside of the plane. There was an ice wall, thick as could be. I couldn't believe my eyes, nor can I fathom the stupidity required to believe this theory.

I was totally convinced of this theory, when I was -ummm-eh- three.
Wait, maybe I was even four. LMAO

[uk_dave]

....nor can I fathom the stupidity required to believe this theory.

Candidate no.1, please step forward...

"You couldn't have flown. Planes don't exist" - Killklown

[EternalSceptic]

So why do you see a ships mast over the 'horizon' before the hull?

huh? huh?

You still believe in this primitive, brainwashing _science_ ???

(No, I am _not_ ExtremeSkeptic)

[zeppy_gorrila]

Candidate no.1, please step forward...

"You couldn't have flown. Planes don't exist" - Killklown
I'm sorry guys, but I was on the inside of the will wright conspiracy. I was just doing what the "man" told me to do.

[TK0001]

Q: Why is NASA’s space shuttle runway curved?

A: It was specially constructed by NASA to be so. After all NASA are at the heart of the conspiracy

I believe that is supposed to read "NASA am at..."

[TK0001]

Q: "What's underneath the Earth?" aka "What's on the bottom?" aka "What's on the other side?"

A: This is unknown. Some believe it to be just rocks, others believe the Earth rests on the back of four elephants and a turtle.

:jaw-dropp

[~enigma~]

One word...I mean one name - ERATOSTHENES

ETA - Flat earthers must have flat heads with no brains...

[JimBenArm]

I believe that is supposed to read "NASA am at..."
No, it's "NASA be at..."

[hellaeon]

Wow, you really are in the league of killtown to believe this.
Imagine it. Spending your life thinking this. Being dedicated to it.

[defaultdotxbe]

flat eart is really the quintessential conspiracy theory

there is no motive for hiding the fact that earth is flat

there is no benefit to peopel beleiving earth is round

every nation on the planet must be in on it


truly flat earth is a conspiracy simply for the sake of conspiracy

I believe that is supposed to read "NASA am at..."
No, it's "NASA be at..."
Bizzarro NASA am at the heart!

[einsteen]

I think some major leage debunkers here have the talent to convince people that the earth indeed is flat.

[jhunter1163]

This is the summum of idiocy. I wouldn't know where to start.

Summa Dumb Loud?

[uk_dave]

I think some major leage debunkers here have the talent to convince people that the earth indeed is flat.

I doubt that.

But I'm sure there are plenty of woowoos who would be willing to believe it is flat if that provided an acceptable explanation for why they are such losers. :D

[GwionX]

I read a book about it..it was by Thomas Friedman.

Didn't have much to do with geography though.

[~enigma~]

I read a book about it..it was by Thomas Friedman.

Didn't have much to do with geography though.
Speaking of flat. Anybody read Flatland by Edwin Abbott?

[strathmeyer]

This is a horrible theory, considering that there is consistently some form of residents at the South Pole.

[AZCat]

Hey just for a change, let's do something other than terrorists & supposedly ficticious airliners & government conspiracies.

Well okay, it's still a government conspiracy - The Flat Earth Society.
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum//index.php

Looks like some people really believe that the Earth is flat and the public are being lied to that it's spherical. The air & water is held on the flat plate by the huge ice walls that surround the Earth, and the north pole is the centre of the plate. The entire edge of the plate is the south pole.
The Sun is much much smaller than we're told, and it moves around above the plate in circles to make day & night and the seasons.
We can't see all the way across the plate because of the dirty atmosphere.

It's a ripper, isn't it?

The irony of this is that it can be argued that the earth is indeed flat, at least locally. I see the fallacy of extending this local "truth" to a global falsity in the "9/11 truth" community also. Sure, the BBC screwed up their coverage of WTC7; yes, not all the eyewitness testimony matches up; no, the NIST was not able to recreate the collapse of the towers identically (nor did they try) - these are all local truths, but the "truthers" fail to recognize that they are not representative of the global "truth" just as the flat-earthers fail to recognize that the local "flatness" of the earth does not cause global "flatness".

[LashL]

This is a horrible theory, considering that there is consistently some form of residents at the South Pole.

And also a few at the North Pole, most notably a fat guy, his wife, a bunch of crazy toy-making elves and a herd of reindeer, one of which has a glowing red nose... yoinks! talk about a conspiracy :D

[B-Man]

I think some major leage debunkers here have the talent to convince people that the earth indeed is flat.

Yes, they've got some wonderful arguments for everything you can throw at them.
But it's good for a laugh to try anyway. :)

[Hokulele]

The irony of this is that it can be argued that the earth is indeed flat, at least locally. I see the fallacy of extending this local "truth" to a global falsity in the "9/11 truth" community also. Sure, the BBC screwed up their coverage of WTC7; yes, not all the eyewitness testimony matches up; no, the NIST was not able to recreate the collapse of the towers identically (nor did they try) - these are all local truths, but the "truthers" fail to recognize that they are not representative of the global "truth" just as the flat-earthers fail to recognize that the local "flatness" of the earth does not cause global "flatness".


Not even locally, just ask any surveyor. For a good local proof of a spherical (roughly) earth, take a survey shot using absolute azimuths or bearings from one point (Point A) towards another (Point B) about 3 km away, or more if possible. Go to Point B and take a shot back to Point A. Compare the numbers. The direction from Point A to Point B is not simply 180 degrees off of the direction from Point B to Point A. Surveyors refer to these as geodetic directions. The effect is greater the farther apart Point A and B are. This is due to the same effect that gives you a great-circle path for air travel, rather than a straight point to point as it appears on a flat map.

[Coritani]

It boggles the mind how dumb this is.

Or perhaps, it's so dumb that it gobbles the mind. :confused:

[AZCat]

Not even locally, just ask any surveyor. For a good local proof of a spherical (roughly) earth, take a survey shot using absolute azimuths or bearings from one point (Point A) towards another (Point B) about 3 km away, or more if possible. Go to Point B and take a shot back to Point A. Compare the numbers. The direction from Point A to Point B is not simply 180 degrees off of the direction from Point B to Point A. Surveyors refer to these as geodetic directions. The effect is greater the farther apart Point A and B are. This is due to the same effect that gives you a great-circle path for air travel, rather than a straight point to point as it appears on a flat map.

I apologize - I should have added that one must think like a "truther" to see this. For example, the floor of my apartment is not curved - it is flat. The floor of my office? Flat. When I go to get coffee with "the boys" in the morning (at the local Flingers) the floor there is flat. All examples of local "flatness". Stupid, but that never stopped a "truther".

[Hokulele]

I apologize - I should have added that one must think like a "truther" to see this. For example, the floor of my apartment is not curved - it is flat. The floor of my office? Flat. When I go to get coffee with "the boys" in the morning (at the local Flingers) the floor there is flat. All examples of local "flatness". Stupid, but that never stopped a "truther".

I wish all of my local floors were that flat. :D

You are right, I wasn't thinking like a "truther".

*shudders to imagine such a thing*

[Anti-sophist]

It's actually fun to try to help them answer their unanswered FAQs.

For instance, the reason that the mast appears before the hull might have something to do with water being a diff temperature than air and consequently there is a temperature gradient causing light to refract.. making the ship appear lower the farther away it is.

[Pardalis]

I think some major leage debunkers here have the talent to convince people that the earth indeed is flat.

Yes, they've got some wonderful arguments for everything you can throw at them.
But it's good for a laugh to try anyway. :)


Einsteen doesn't believe a plane crashed in Shanksville BTW.

[TK0001]

I liked how they explain away the idea of sunsets by saying the sun just gets further away until it disappears from view.

150 years of this Society and that's the best they could come up with? Do they not find it curious that the sun appears much bigger as it's setting?

[bob_kark]

I just wonder what the odds are that every object in space, which is supposedly also flat, is directly facing the Earth's POV. Not one is at an angle to us. Also, how do they explain an object like 2003 EL61 (http://www.gps.caltech.edu/~mbrown/2003EL61/) which is obviously an oblong object spinning end over end?

I do agree with one thing though. It's turtles all the way down.

[TK0001]

Not one is at an angle to us. Also, how do they explain an object like 2003 EL61 (http://www.gps.caltech.edu/~mbrown/2003EL61/) which is obviously an oblong object spinning end over end?

I do agree with one thing though. It's turtles all the way down.

Oblong = at an angle to us.

C'mon Bob. :rolleyes:

[rwguinn]

This is a horrible theory, considering that there is consistently some form of residents at the South Pole.

Yeah--but did you ever notice how WIDE they are?
And don't try to tell me it is because they are wearing parkas...

[gumboot]

Looks like some people really believe that the Earth is flat and the public are being lied to that it's spherical. The air & water is held on the flat plate by the huge ice walls that surround the Earth, and the north pole is the centre of the plate. The entire edge of the plate is the south pole.
The Sun is much much smaller than we're told, and it moves around above the plate in circles to make day & night and the seasons.
We can't see all the way across the plate because of the dirty atmosphere.

It's a ripper, isn't it?



Personally I think Terry Pratchett came up with a far more sensible and cohesive scenario.

-Gumboot

[bob_kark]

Oblong = at an angle to us.

C'mon Bob. :rolleyes:

But, that's the problem, we don't see any turtles when it flips over!

[Jennie C.]

I think the penguins started this theory.

[c4ts]

So why do you see a ships mast over the 'horizon' before the hull?

huh? huh?

Speaking of that example, I've never actually seen it happen. And I grew up in Tampa watching ships all the time. Then again, I'm not the patient type.

[defaultdotxbe]

I liked how they explain away the idea of sunsets by saying the sun just gets further away until it disappears from view.

150 years of this Society and that's the best they could come up with? Do they not find it curious that the sun appears much bigger as it's setting?
or the fact that it sets on the horizon, if it was just disappearing into the sky it wouldnt get any closer to ground

[Mobyseven]

How about the fact that we have a horizon at all?

[JimBenArm]

How about the fact that we have a horizon at all?
What's with all these facts? Next thing, you'll be trying to tell me 9/11 wasn't an inside job!

[defaultdotxbe]

How about the fact that we have a horizon at all?
they kindof address that one, they says its clouds/dirty air that prevents you from seeing the himalayas from california

i know, not much of an expanantion, but at least they tried on that one, lol

[NickUK]

I'm sure I read somewhere that that site is an elaborate piss-take.

Can't for the life of me remember where though.

[Mobyseven]

What's with all these facts? Next thing, you'll be trying to tell me 9/11 wasn't an inside job!

Nope, I'll be trying to tell you that Monica-gate wasn't a...I should stop there.

[defaultdotxbe]

I'm sure I read somewhere that that site is an elaborate piss-take.

Can't for the life of me remember where though.
this flat earth society page is fake
http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm

this one is real
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum//

[NickUK]

this flat earth society page is fake
http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm

this one is real
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum//

Yep - that's the one, thanks DDX.

I can't really think of anything to say apart from 'wow'.

[~enigma~]

FE FAQ claims Earth does not have a gravitational field but it is accelerating through space at 1g...then they turn around and say Moon and Stars have gravity??? WTF?!?!?

[jimbob]

You think this is a bit odd, then What do you think of Concave hollow earth theories (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth_theory#Concave_hollow_Earths)? I'd say that these were getting downright eccentric.

I feel a bit thick, but could someone please point me to the location of the FAQ, with a list of the common abbreviations (I recall seeing it somewhere, but can't now), and/or tell me what ETA is.

Thanks

Jim

[Hokulele]

You think this is a bit odd, then What do you think of Concave hollow earth theories (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth_theory#Concave_hollow_Earths)? I'd say that these were getting downright eccentric.

I feel a bit thick, but could someone please point me to the location of the FAQ, with a list of the common abbreviations (I recall seeing it somewhere, but can't now), and/or tell me what ETA is.

Thanks

Jim


ETA = Edited to Add (or Estimated Time of Arrival if you are an airplane :) ).

[Rahne Everson]

You think this is a bit odd, then What do you think of Concave hollow earth theories (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth_theory#Concave_hollow_Earths)? I'd say that these were getting downright eccentric.

I read about that, in relation to a truly wacky guy named Cyrus Teed. He claimed that, since we inside on the inside of the Earth, gravity doesn't exist and that it's only centrifugal force. He also said that the Sun is battery operated, the Moon doesn't exist, and the stars are just refractions of light.

Venturing into the really bizarre, in this article on Skeptic Files (http://www.skepticfiles.org/ufo1/theory.htm), since the Earth is inverted, so are the geometry and Earthly phenomena that appear to us that we live on the exterior surface of a sphere, even though we really live on the interior:

"Just as the geometry of space inverts, so do all the laws of physics. Toward the center of a hollow Earth, light slows down and everything shrinks -- atoms, astronauts, spaceships, and measuring rods. Light travels in circular paths, producing some weird (but lawful) optical effects. Astronauts on the moon looked back on what they thought was a blue sphere in the distance. Actually it was the inside of the earth's shell, throught sight lines that flared like the bell of a trumpet, producing the illusion of a sphere. The optical distortion is something like the wide angle view through a fisheye lens."

[Gulliver]

I liked how they explain away the idea of sunsets by saying the sun just gets further away until it disappears from view.

150 years of this Society and that's the best they could come up with? Do they not find it curious that the sun appears much bigger as it's setting?This is just wrong. The Sun is the same size (with just a little variation) through the day. It's just that the perspective of items at the horizon fools the eye sometimes. You'll find upon further examination that the Sun always appears about the same size as your thumbnail when held like the artist's method, at arm's length with thumb up.

Now they still can't explain why it's the same size in their geography, but that's another story.

By the way, I'm currently working on their Forums to apply skeptical, experiential approaches to the the problem. I'm sure I'll get banned soon, but I'm trying to keep an open mind.

Regards,
Gulliver

[defaultdotxbe]

This is just wrong. The Sun is the same size (with just a little variation) through the day. It's just that the perspective of items at the horizon fools the eye sometimes. You'll find upon further examination that the Sun always appears about the same size as your thumbnail when held like the artist's method, at arm's length with thumb up.

Now they still can't explain why it's the same size in their geography, but that's another story.

By the way, I'm currently working on their Forums to apply skeptical, experiential approaches to the the problem. I'm sure I'll get banned soon, but I'm trying to keep an open mind.

Regards,
Gulliver
i think thats why TK said the sun appears much bigger, lol

[JonnyFive]

Is this crap really for real? I mean, their FAQ on the forum reads like a bad joke.

The moon emitting "cold light" is simply too much.

Come on, it has to be a joke. Right?

[Hourglassmemory]

The theory is ...fascinating. absolutely fascinating!
A flat planet? I thought we had passed that belief that after Fernão Magalhães circumnavigated the planet in the 1500's.

There are actually people who still have this medieval logic in their brains.

No wonder aliens don't visit us.
There weird thing is that the aliens already talk to us but only with people who think there are dolphins swimming inside glass tubes on Mars.
I know I repeat this "dolphins on mars" thing a lot....but it's just so ridiculous that....you know.

I'm not gonna even read it. I bet NASA and the creators of Photoshop are involved.

[jimbob]

Is this crap really for real? I mean, their FAQ on the forum reads like a bad joke.

The moon emitting "cold light" is simply too much.

Come on, it has to be a joke. Right?


I thought that about Buzz Lightyear, and DJJ too.

[JonnyFive]

I thought that about Buzz Lightyear, and DJJ too.

You make an excellent point.

[Drudgewire]

When I flew to Japan last summer, they told me not to look outside of the plane. There was an ice wall, thick as could be. I couldn't believe my eyes, nor can I fathom the stupidity required to believe this theory.
Wrong conspiracy. They were REALLY trying to keep you from seeing Godzilla.

[Hokulele]

This is just wrong. The Sun is the same size (with just a little variation) through the day. It's just that the perspective of items at the horizon fools the eye sometimes. You'll find upon further examination that the Sun always appears about the same size as your thumbnail when held like the artist's method, at arm's length with thumb up.

Now they still can't explain why it's the same size in their geography, but that's another story.

By the way, I'm currently working on their Forums to apply skeptical, experiential approaches to the the problem. I'm sure I'll get banned soon, but I'm trying to keep an open mind.

Regards,
Gulliver


Just a nitpick here, it is not perspective based on other objects that makes the Sun (or the Moon) look larger at the horizon. It is a complex optical illusion based on how our depth perception works. It has to do with binocular vision and how we see the world in 3-D, and how we do not perceive the sky as a half-sphere, but as a half-bowl, flattening out as you look higher. I am not explaining it all that well here, but if you read Phil Plaitt's Bad Astronomy, he has a whole chapter about it.

[Caius Textor]

I think this thread is the right place to ask this:

Which people/culture ever believed the Earth was flat?

I see this a lot, some people say "Oh, but centuries ago everybody thought the Earth was flat", and I can´t seem to fathom who exactly "everybody" is.

The Church (RC, the Vatican) never sustained that; the official cosmology was Aristotle´s, in which not only the Earth but everything else is a perfect sphere. The Greeks in general not only knew the Earth was round, they also calculated its circumference and radius. Ditto for the Egiptians and almost certainly the sorrounding populations (sumerians and phaeniceans at one time or another).
Actually, any longing saylor´s wife would know the Earth couldn´t be flat.
Many European peoples were skilled shipwrights and saylors (the iberians, the normans, angles, jutes, etc..) so they would´ve known it as well.

So, where does this stupid thing comes from?

[NeoRicen]

We've known the earth is round for around 2000 years now, that it orbited the sun is the recent thing we discovered.

Also, Correct me if I'm wrong but if their idea of gravity is true should gravity be increasing over time? If it's accelerating in the future things should fall faster than they do now... Do they even have an explanation as to how that isn't retarded?

[Caius Textor]

We've known the earth is round for around 2000 years now

The ancient Greeks knew the Earth was round at the very least 2500 years ago. There is good reason to believe other peoples knew it even earlier than that.

[The Doc]

The earth is not round. Shills.







:p

[DGM]

I'm still trying to figure out how it's a conspiracy. Who are the conspirators?

[Alareth]

I blame a 400+ year period of ignorance and religious domination of Europe by the Catholic Church.

Honestly, how advanced would we be if the "Dark Ages" hadn't happened?

That setback to science and knowledge is one of the greatest tragedies ever inflicted upon mankind and crap like Flat Earth belivers comes directly from myths and lies circulated during that time period.

[Alareth]

I'm still trying to figure out how it's a conspiracy. Who are the conspirators?



All the governments of the world.

From the Flat Earth FAQ (http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=11211.0):

Q: "Why do the all the world Governments say the Earth is round?"

A: It's a conspiracy

Q: "What about NASA? Don't they have photos to prove that the Earth is round?"

A: NASA is part of the conspiracy too. The photos are faked.

Q: "Why has no-one taken a photo of the Earth that proves it is flat?"

A: The government prevents people from getting close enough to the Ice Wall to take a picture.

Q: "How did NASA create these images with the computer technology available at the time?"

A: Since NASA did not send rockets into space, they instead spent the money on developing advanced computers and imaging software instead

PLEASE NOTE This means that pictures confirming the roundness or flatness of the Earth DO NOT IN THEMSELVES CONSTITUTE VALID PROOF

Q: "What is the motive behind this conspiracy?"

A: The motive is unknown although it is probably money (http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=6308.0)

Q: "If you're not sure about the motive, why do you say there is a conspiracy?"

A: Well it's quite simple really; if the earth is in fact flat, then the governments must be lying when they say it isn't.

Q: "The government could not pull off the conspiracy successfully"

A: Actually, they could. (http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=6308.0)

Q: "How are the world governments organized enough to carry out this conspiracy?"

A: They only appear to be disorganized to make the conspiracy seem implausible.

Q: Why hasn’t this site been shut down by the government?

A: Doing so would prove that the government is hiding something.

Q: No way could the government possibly guard the entire Ice Wall! It would take too many men! Millions of men!

A: Not really. You could do it with a few hundred and some basic equipment. (http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=2620.msg22714#msg22714)

Q: Why is NASA’s space shuttle runway curved?

A: It was specially constructed by NASA to be so. After all NASA are at the heart of the conspiracy.

[Caius Textor]

I blame a 400+ year period of ignorance and religious domination of Europe by the Catholic Church.

Honestly, how advanced would we be if the "Dark Ages" hadn't happened?

That setback to science and knowledge is one of the greatest tragedies ever inflicted upon mankind and crap like Flat Earth belivers comes directly from myths and lies circulated during that time period.

What part of "the Church´s official cosmology was Aristotle´s, in which not only the Earth but everything else were perfect spheres" you don´t agree with?