National 9/11 Debate

[skepticalcriticalguy]

Did this event happen? It was supposed to be last week. I don't see any discussion of it here.

http://www.teamliberty.net/id244.html

[Gravy]

It was cancelled.

[CHF]

It was cancelled.

:dl:

[~enigma~]

It was cancelled.
I find that to be very funny. I think it would be safe to say the entire bowel...I mean truth movement should be canceled. BTW Mark....cancelled has one l :D

[The Silver Shadow]

he is learning to spell Canadian-style! Remember, 90% of Canada's population is bordering the US. Should U,S and A do something and we're on their doorstep :D

[CptColumbo]

I find that to be very funny. I think it would be safe to say the entire bowel...I mean truth movement should be canceled. BTW Mark....cancelled has one l :D

My dictionary shows it spelled both ways.

[~enigma~]

he is learning to spell Canadian-style! Remember, 90% of Canada's population is bordering the US. Should U,S and A do something and we're on their doorstep :D
Gravy is in NYC and here in the US we blame Canada :)

[~enigma~]

My dictionary shows it spelled both ways.
So does the Oxford dictionary but it also says the single l is the US spelling.

[Matthew Best]

Obviously Gravy is a civilised man.

[~enigma~]

Obviously Gravy is a civilised man.
I come from NYC and I wouldn't even begin to call Nyers civilized.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

I come from NYC and I wouldn't even begin to call Nyers civilized.
Then, obviously, Gravy's not from New York! :tinfoil

[~enigma~]

Then, obviously, Gravy's not from New York! :tinfoil
It's so obvious...

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/3747/lol20mosesoe3.jpg

I feel like Roxdog!!!

[Gravy]

Obviously Gravy is a civilised man.Perhaps I was in my days as a poetry student. I've gone feral since, as I'm sure the patrons of Farrell's bar (http://www.yelp.com/biz/aRgDpON2eHhjXitgQpsjxw) will attest tomorrow. Erin Go Bragh!

[skepticalcriticalguy]

It was cancelled.

Do you know why it was cancelled? Were you planning to attend? And debate?

[LashL]

[pedant mode]

We spell it "cancelled" with two Ls here (above the 49th parallel).

[/pedant mode]

In any event, it is no surprise that the "national debate" was cancelled didn't happen. It was destined to fail from the beginning.

[skepticalcriticalguy]

[pedant mode]

We spell it "cancelled" with two Ls here (above the 49th parallel).

[/pedant mode]

In any event, it is no surprise that the "national debate" was cancelled didn't happen. It was destined to fail from the beginning.

Why was it "destined to fail?" Care to elaborate?

[gumboot]

Why was it "destined to fail?" Care to elaborate?


Because the Truth Movement know they're lying.

-Gumboot

[Architect]

It's got 2 Ls in Canada, the UK, Oz, NZ, and South Africa. But American spellings are allowable in Scrabble in the UK, so it's always worth remembering.........

[Gravy]

Why was it "destined to fail?" Care to elaborate?Ostensibly the purpose of the debate was to pit prominent "truthers" against members of the 9/11 Commisison and NIST. Of course the organizers knew that none of the official group would sign up. They knew that last Summer. Nor were they able to get media panelists on board, beyond a couple of truthers, and they had no moderator. So they changed the date from December to March, as if that would make a difference. During that time the "Scholar" schism happened, with some going ga-ga over Star Wars beams.

I would have participated if they had had a real format, a real panel, a real moderator, and if half the opponents weren't no-planer energy beamists. So, yeah, it was destined to fail. A total joke.

[Brainache]

Weren't you supposed to be debating Uncle Fetzer or someone at some college as well?

What happened to that one?

[T.A.M.]

I think it would have been a mess. The truthers would have said...

"Isnt that fishy." "Thats pecular." "That doesnt sound right." and feel they were victorious.

The scientists would have listened, shook their heads in frustration, and then simply got up and left.

TAM:)

[Gravy]

Weren't you supposed to be debating Uncle Fetzer or someone at some college as well?

What happened to that one?He decided it was best if that encounter happened at the national debate, then suggested moving that debate to my alma mater. I suggest holding the national debate on the Moon and renaming it the Intergalactic Truth Debate. By doing so we'd be able to dismiss several other conspiracy theories (U.S. military base on dark side of Moon, Apollo landings didn't happen, Moon made of cheese, flat Earth). And I've heard that our shape-shifting reptilian overlords are unable to maintain their human form in low gravity. I have a feeling we'd see certain of the truthers undergo interesting changes on the Moon.

[Elizabeth I]

he is learning to spell Canadian-style! Remember, 90% of Canada's population is bordering the US. Should U,S and A do something and we're on their doorstep :D

I'm from Texas and I've spelled it "cancelled" since I learned to spell. If you spelled it "canceled" you would have to pronounce it "canceeled." :)

[~enigma~]

I'm from Texas and I've spelled it "cancelled" since I learned to spell. If you spelled it "canceled" you would have to pronounce it "canceeled." :)But us imported Texans know that you natural Texans don't speak or spell correctly. I mean just look at Ross Perot and explain where the heck he gets r in wash - listen to him and a bunch of other Texans, they say warsh. Maybe they pick up the r's us real NYers drop?

[uk_dave]

I have a feeling we'd see certain of the truthers undergo interesting changes on the Moon.

Certainly once they decided to go for a walk outside without a spacesuit, since their common sense told them it would be perfectly ok to do so :D

(killklown mode)

But the moon looks just like a desert and you can breath in a desert so you must be able to breathe on the moon

(/killklown mode)

[Elizabeth I]

But us imported Texans know that you natural Texans don't speak or spell correctly. I mean just look at Ross Perot and explain where the heck he gets r in wash - listen to him and a bunch of other Texans, they say warsh. Maybe they pick up the r's us real NYers drop?

Like where people from Boston get the "Rs" they put on the end of "Africker" and "Cuber"? From the ones they drop out of Havad.

I don't know about Hross. The only people I ever heard say "warsh" instead of "wash" were from Oklahoma. They also said "wrench" instead of "rinse." Do you maybe live up there near the Red River where proper speech has been corrupted by those Okies?

[Gravy]

I don't know about Hross. The only people I ever heard say "warsh" instead of "wash" were from Oklahoma. They also said "wrench" instead of "rinse." Do you maybe live up there near the Red River where proper speech has been corrupted by those Okies?You're right about that. In my travels I've noticed a "warsh" and "anymore" belt that runs from around Virginia, straight across the Bible Belt and into Arkansas and Oklahoma. My guess is that it originated in Appalachia. I don't remember hearing it in Texas, but wouldn't be surprised to find it in the north.

ETA: just looked up Perot: he's from Texarkana!

[ConspiRaider]

You're right about that. In my travels I've noticed a "warsh" and "anymore" belt that runs from around Virginia, straight across the Bible Belt and into Arkansas and Oklahoma. My guess is that it originated in Appalachia. I don't remember hearing it in Texas, but wouldn't be surprised to find it in the north.

ETA: just looked up Perot: he's from Texarkana!
Perot. Hell I worked for that guy more than 3 years and didn't know he was from Texarkana.

Guess how Perot made his billions? Did you say: Off the backs of his workers? Lucrative U.S. government contracts? Yep!

With all his billions maybe he can clear this up:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075342/

[WildCat]

You're right about that. In my travels I've noticed a "warsh" and "anymore" belt that runs from around Virginia, straight across the Bible Belt and into Arkansas and Oklahoma. My guess is that it originated in Appalachia. I don't remember hearing it in Texas, but wouldn't be surprised to find it in the north.
My dad's from northern Indiana, and he says "warsh". I think it's just a hick thing.

[kookbreaker]

(/killklown mode)

You keep doing that and it'll freeze in that mode someday!

[skyking]

Do you know why it was cancelled?

It musta been a gubbmint conspiracy.

[JimBenArm]

But us imported Texans know that you natural Texans don't speak or spell correctly. I mean just look at Ross Perot and explain where the heck he gets r in wash - listen to him and a bunch of other Texans, they say warsh. Maybe they pick up the r's us real NYers drop?
You want I should start on the MissourEE or MissourAH debate now?

[The Demon's Head]

You want I should start on the MissourEE or MissourAH debate now?

You forgot that some refer to Missouri as Misery.

:D ;)

[JimBenArm]

You forgot that some refer to Missouri as Misery.

:D ;)
Only those of us that live there...

[skepticalcriticalguy]

Ostensibly the purpose of the debate was to pit prominent "truthers" against members of the 9/11 Commisison and NIST. Of course the organizers knew that none of the official group would sign up. They knew that last Summer. Nor were they able to get media panelists on board, beyond a couple of truthers, and they had no moderator. So they changed the date from December to March, as if that would make a difference. During that time the "Scholar" schism happened, with some going ga-ga over Star Wars beams.

I would have participated if they had had a real format, a real panel, a real moderator, and if half the opponents weren't no-planer energy beamists. So, yeah, it was destined to fail. A total joke.

OK, thanks. Was wondering about it.

I'd like to see a well-organized debate; "expert" vs. "expert" in various areas.

[skepticalcriticalguy]

I think it would have been a mess. The truthers would have said...

"Isnt that fishy." "Thats pecular." "That doesnt sound right." and feel they were victorious.

The scientists would have listened, shook their heads in frustration, and then simply got up and left.

TAM:)

Maybe.

[Gravy]

My dad's from northern Indiana, and he says "warsh". I think it's just a hick thing.Is that right? He's from there originally? Well, that's why I'm a tour guide and not a linguist.

[Elizabeth I]

My dad's from northern Indiana, and he says "warsh". I think it's just a hick thing.

Is that right? He's from there originally? Well, that's why I'm a tour guide and not a linguist.

Maybe it's a Great Plains thing.

[WildCat]

Is that right? He's from there originally? Well, that's why I'm a tour guide and not a linguist.
Yep, North Liberty, Indiana.

[Gravy]

OK, thanks. Was wondering about it.

I'd like to see a well-organized debate; "expert" vs. "expert" in various areas.
I've seen all the truther arguments, and can handle them myself. Others would handle individual arguments far better than I can, but I think I'd do a good job with the whole shebang.

And I'm an effing tour guide. How can that be? Doesn't the "truth movement" promise to expose a world-shattering, enormous conspiracy? Aren't you right on the verge of that? So close? Almost have that last piece of the puzzle, do you?

Good lord, man, you can't even find the puzzle box in the closet. Your "movement" could not possibly be more pathetic.

Furthermore,


You

have

no

experts.

Hello? The official version is supported by thousands of professionals who actually investigated the crimes!



On the other hand, your very best are utterly incompetent.


Do you disagree? Then set up a debate between me and your number one. Your very best. Your head honcho.

Make that your top six. I hereby put out that challenge (they won't answer me individually).

Obviously a team of your best experts could make mincemeat of a tour guide, right? This stuff really matters to the "truth" movement, doesn't it? I mean, you have all sorts of evidence to back your claims, right?

Then set it up, skepticalcriticalguy.


What a sick, twisted horror your "truth" movement is. I have never, ever, seen anything as poorly-named.

[T.A.M.]

I've seen all the truther arguments, and can handle them myself. Others would handle individual arguments far better than I can, but I think I'd do a good job with the whole shebang.

And I'm an effing tour guide. How can that be? Doesn't the "truth movement" promise to expose a world-shattering, enormous conspiracy? Aren't you right on the verge of that? So close? Almost have that last piece of the puzzle, do you?

Good lord, man, you can't even find the puzzle box in the closet. Your "movement" could not possibly be more pathetic.

Furthermore,


You

have

no

experts.

Hello? The official version is supported by thousands of professionals who actually investigated the crimes!



On the other hand, your very best are utterly incompetent.


Do you disagree? Then set up a debate between me and your number one. Your very best. Your head honcho.

Make that your top six. I hereby put out that challenge (they won't answer me individually).

Obviously a team of your best experts could make mincemeat of a tour guide, right? This stuff really matters to the "truth" movement, doesn't it? I mean, you have all sorts of evidence to back your claims, right?

Then set it up, skepticalcriticalguy.


What a sick, twisted horror your "truth" movement is. I have never, ever, seen anything as poorly-named.


Now this I would pay money to watch.

1. Judy Woods
2. Stephen Jones
3. Gordon Ross
4. Paul Thompson
5. Jim Hoffman
6. Jim Fetzer (for comedic relief)

versus

Mark Roberts

I am so waiting for this debate.

TAM:)

[R.Mackey]

Ha! The only reason Gravy even needs to show up is so he can watch the distinguished Trooth alumni bicker each other to pieces.



Now is it clear why the "Debate" never happened?

[pomeroo]

Now this I would pay money to watch.

1. Judy Woods
2. Stephen Jones
3. Gordon Ross
4. Paul Thompson
5. Jim Hoffman
6. Jim Fetzer (for comedic relief)

versus

Mark Roberts

I am so waiting for this debate.

TAM:)



For newcomers to this forum, Webster Tarpley and I exchanged e-mails. He expressed an interest in appearing on 'Hardfire' and asked for more information about the show. I sent him links to Mark's debates with The Boys. Tarpley has not responded to the two follow-up messages I sent him.

[Mince]

http://www.teamliberty.net/id244.html



There really isn’t much to debate any longer. This case needs to go to court!



What are they waiting for?

[T.A.M.]

For newcomers to this forum, Webster Tarpley and I exchanged e-mails. He expressed an interest in appearing on 'Hardfire' and asked for more information about the show. I sent him links to Mark's debates with The Boys. Tarpley has not responded to the two follow-up messages I sent him.

Kind of says it all, doesnt it Ron.

TAM:)

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

You're right about that. In my travels I've noticed a "warsh" and "anymore" belt that runs from around Virginia, straight across the Bible Belt and into Arkansas and Oklahoma. My guess is that it originated in Appalachia. I don't remember hearing it in Texas, but wouldn't be surprised to find it in the north.

ETA: just looked up Perot: he's from Texarkana!
That's because the R's fall out of New England down through Ohio. Ex. in Boston you "Pahk the cah." and in Ohio you "Warsh (or worsh) your clothes."

[~enigma~]

That's because the R's fall out of New England down through Ohio. Ex. in Boston you "Pahk the cah." and in Ohio you "Warsh (or worsh) your clothes."Hey...Teddy Kennedy's favorite sentence..."I paked the cah in tha watah."

[skepticalcriticalguy]

For newcomers to this forum, Webster Tarpley and I exchanged e-mails. He expressed an interest in appearing on 'Hardfire' and asked for more information about the show. I sent him links to Mark's debates with The Boys. Tarpley has not responded to the two follow-up messages I sent him.

He's a busy guy. I just saw him in South Bend yesterday, and he had another event last night, I believe back in DC.

Do you have Tarpley's email? (I don't think the one at Tarpley.net is working). I'll ask him if he is still interested in Hardfire. I'd love to see it.

[skepticalcriticalguy]

And I'm an effing tour guide.



Gravy, what are you a tour guide of? Not being combative; I'm interested.

[Gravy]

Gravy, what are you a tour guide of? Not being combative; I'm interested.New York City.

[pomeroo]

He's a busy guy. I just saw him in South Bend yesterday, and he had another event last night, I believe back in DC.

Do you have Tarpley's email? (I don't think the one at Tarpley.net is working). I'll ask him if he is still interested in Hardfire. I'd love to see it.



Although I posted it here last month, here again is the exchange with Tarpley. I can tell you that Tarpley understands that he will be exposed as the fraud he is if he agrees to debate any well-informed debunker. The e-mail address that appeared on Tarpley's response was: tarpley@radix.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Ronald Wieck
To: tarpley@tarpley.net (tarpley@tarpley.net)
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 9:55 AM
Subject: Debate


Dear Mr. Tarpley,

I occasionally host a cable show, 'Hardfire,' that airs in New York City. We taped a debate last week between two of the creators of 'Loose Change' and Mark Roberts, debunker extraordinaire. The conspiracy fantasists had good reason to be displeased with the outcome. The tinfoil-hat blogs cry out for a stronger champion, and your name keeps coming up.

Are you interested? I'd be happy to discuss 9/11-related issues with you on either one or two half-hour shows.

Yours Truly,
Ronald Wieck


----- Original Message -----
From: Webster G. Tarpley (tarpley@radix.net)
To: Ronald Wieck
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 11:05 PM
Subject: Re: Debate


Sounds interesting - can you let me know a little more about your program, and about Mark Roberts.
WGT



Dear Mr. Tarpley,

Sure. The show is a small one, although we've recently expanded to Nassau County, NY. Here are the links to the two-part debate between Roberts and the Loose Change Team.

The first program is at http://tinyurl.com/tkfhj.

The second program is at http://tinyurl.com/yfkqeo (http://tinyurl.com/yfkqeo).

You could either debate Roberts--the match people on both sides seem to be clamoring for--or you could be interviewed by me. The range of 9/11-related issues could be broad or restricted to a few topics of your choosing.

Ron Wieck



On January 15, 2007, I wrote Tarpley again:


Dear Mr. Tarpley,

I haven't heard from you for a while. Are you still interested in appearing on Hardfire?

Regards,
Ron Wieck



On January 25, I gave it one more try:


Dear Mr. Tarpley,

I'm beginning to get the idea that you're not too interested in discussing 9/11 conspiracy theories on Hardfire. Mark Roberts is terrifyingly well-informed, but there is no need to confront him. You can simply be interviewed by me and I'm a pushover.

Regards,
Ron Wieck

[T.A.M.]

If the leaders of the truth movement are fearful to enter a debate on a local cable show, with a "tour guide" (no offence Mark or Ron, you know the point I am making here, and you know the respect I have for both of you on this issue), how on this earth will they ever get the guts to face the big guns of the MSM and the legal system?

TAM:)

[CHF]

If the leaders of the truth movement are fearful to enter a debate on a local cable show, with a "tour guide".....

They can't handle ANYONE who is even vaguely familiar with twoofer idiocy.

When I visited NYC last September I met up with Mark, Chad and Abby for a round with the twoofers.

Now I'm just some guy who works at an insurance company in Toronto - and they would even give up against me! One of two things will always get them to say "go away" or ignore you.

1) ask them for their experts (pointing out how the names they give are not qualified people).

2) take their own claims to a logical conclusion and then ask them if that's what they believe.

There was even one moron who insisted that the war in Afghanistan was to build a pipeline. He waved around a book that quoted pipeline plans from 1997 and how another plan was proposed in 2002

So he handed me his book and I flipped TO THE VERY NEXT PAGE.

"UNOCAL plan cancalled in 1998;" "2002 plan can't attract investment."

Easiest debate I've ever had.

[skepticalcriticalguy]

Easiest debate I've ever had.

Congratulations on your easy victory. But there might be a little more to the pipeline story. Why are you guys so desperate to keep life simple, when we live in a complex world?

http://www.alternet.org/story/12525/

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=20478

Here are a couple of the hundreds of articles written.

I know, debunked. NEXT!

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Why are you guys so desperate to keep life simple, when we live in a complex world?
Complex? That's what they say. How do you know it's complex?

[skepticalcriticalguy]

Complex? That's what they say. How do you know it's complex?

Umm. Never mind. The world is simple. (And flat).

[skepticalcriticalguy]

Nothing to see here. Everything will be fine!

[skepticalcriticalguy]

For newcomers to this forum, Webster Tarpley and I exchanged e-mails. He expressed an interest in appearing on 'Hardfire' and asked for more information about the show. I sent him links to Mark's debates with The Boys. Tarpley has not responded to the two follow-up messages I sent him.

Maybe he doesn't want Mark to make a condescending gif avatar after the debate.

Or maybe he just gets freaked out by that creepy thing Mark does with his hands. But hey, now that I think about it, Tarpley has his own weird hand gestures! This could get good! :D

[A W Smith]

Maybe he doesn't want Mark to make a condescending gif avatar after the debate.

Or maybe he just gets freaked out by that creepy thing Mark does with his hands. But hey, now that I think about it, Tarpley has his own weird hand gestures! This could get good! :D

Mark didnt make that avatar

[LashL]

Maybe he doesn't want Mark to make a condescending gif avatar after the debate.

Or maybe he just gets freaked out by that creepy thing Mark does with his hands. But hey, now that I think about it, Tarpley has his own weird hand gestures! This could get good! :D

Or maybe you're just a raving loon of the tinhat persuasion - that is more likely and the evidence of same is plentiful.

[skepticalcriticalguy]

Mark didnt make that avatar

OK, that may be. But he sure does sport it.

[skepticalcriticalguy]

Or maybe you're just a raving loon of the tinhat persuasion - that is more likely and the evidence of same is plentiful.

And I get told my posts aren't intelligent.

[LashL]

And I get told my posts aren't intelligent.

Rightly so.

[PhantomWolf]

Now this I would pay money to watch.

1. Judy Woods
2. Stephen Jones
3. Gordon Ross
4. Paul Thompson
5. Jim Hoffman
6. Jim Fetzer (for comedic relief)

versus

Mark Roberts

I am so waiting for this debate.

TAM:)

Shouldn't that be:

1. Judy Woods

vs

2. Stephen Jones

vs

3. Gordon Ross

vs

4. Paul Thompson

vs

5. Jim Hoffman

vs

6. Jim Fetzer (for comedic relief)

With Mark Roberts watching.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Umm. Never mind. The world is simple. (And flat).
I'm surprised your own "debate" tactics work better on you than they do on the rest of us. Tsk, tsk...

...or are you just demonstrating for us the proper way to deal with you?

[pomeroo]

And I get told my posts aren't intelligent.


I'd like to join the list of those who tell you that your posts are extremely unintelligent.

[The Doc]

I'd like to join the list of those who tell you that your posts are extremely unintelligent.

I second that.

Skepticalcriticalguy, your posts are extremely unintelligent.

[Pardalis]

1. Judy Woods

vs

2. Stephen Jones

vs

3. Gordon Ross

vs

4. Paul Thompson

vs

5. Jim Hoffman

vs

6. Jim Fetzer (for comedic relief)


Which of those are CONTELPRO again, Scooby? :confused:

[T.A.M.]

I think SCG is intelligent. I think many of his posts are not, but such is to be expected when you are trying to argue 10 people at once. It often reduces to insult slinging. I think almost all of his posts are built around falsehoods.

My Opinion of course...and you all know, I am far from a truther.

TAM:)

[skepticalcriticalguy]

I think SCG is intelligent. I think many of his posts are not, but such is to be expected when you are trying to argue 10 people at once. It often reduces to insult slinging. I think almost all of his posts are built around falsehoods.

My Opinion of course...and you all know, I am far from a truther.

TAM:)

Wow, TAM, thank you! I mean it; thanks for acknowleding that it can get rough in here. When there are 20 posts to reply to, it is easy to just sling out one-liners.

I will try to be less offensive.

[The Demon's Head]

Now this I would pay money to watch.

1. Judy Woods
2. Stephen Jones
3. Gordon Ross
4. Paul Thompson
5. Jim Hoffman
6. Jim Fetzer (for comedic relief)

versus

Mark Roberts

I am so waiting for this debate.

TAM:)

That seems unfair. Add the Loose Change boys as well to debate against Mark. Nah. Even then, they still couldn't win.