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View Full Version : Randi and Africa


Wolfman
17th March 2007, 01:07 AM
From Randi's latest commentary:
We’re told that South Africa has now reversed its controversial advice. But why was such a juvenile statement made, in the first place? Are African countries determined to stay back in the Dark Ages, rather than moving into the twenty-first century along with the rest of the world? My brief visit there brought me hope that not only were they leaving behind the disgrace of apartheid, but also the supernatural mythology that it appears they still insist on embracing. It’s time to sweep out that trash along with the medieval notions of racial superiority and discredited ideas of magical influences. Yes, it takes some courage to do so, but if the leaders don’t accept reality rather than trying to keep their people in an atmosphere of ignorance and superstition, these countires [sic] will remain on a road to nowhere. And its citizens will continue to die from their leaders’ lack of rationality…
Now, I've had some questions about Randi's comments in the past, but none that have shown such appalling ignorance (in my opinion).

Randi seems to share the North American inability to perceive that Africa is composed of many different nations, many of which are quite radically different from each other. Instead, Randi takes instances in only two African countries (Gambia and South Africa), and uses it as an excuse to generalize about all African countries. The reply is a rambling string of statements that frequently shift back and forth between referring to the single nation of "South Africa" (such as is comment about "My brief visit there", which I assume refers to South Africa only, not to every African country), and to "these countries", referring to all of Africa.

Yes, there are African nations that have ignorant leaders and are rife with superstition. There are also African nations with enlightened leaders and strong programs to promote scientific knowledge.

And I most definitely take exception (as, I would assume, would the majority of Africans), with Randi's contention that "these countries are on the road to nowhere". My god, we hear Randi constantly insulting others for crass generalization and unsubstantiated claims, then he turns around and makes the most crude generalization possible, lumping all African nations together, and depicting them all as being on the road to nowhere!

At my most generous, I'd say that this article lacks cohesion and logic, mixing references to a single nation and to all of Africa in a manner that confounds the reader and will inevitably lead to misunderstandings. At my least generous, I'd say that this article reeks of ignorance and unsubstantiated generalizations, reflective not of a mind that values skepticism, but of a mind that is happy to draw broad conclusions on many different nations based on a fleeting experience of only one country.

In short -- not impressed.

grunion
17th March 2007, 07:22 AM
Wolfman, perhaps your cultural sensitivity barometer is challenging your ability to address the issue critically. If you read the story on Salon that Randi links to in his next piece (on Oprah), you will see the references to the AIDS ignorance in South Africa that approaches that of the Gambian president that he discusses in the first article. No doubt he conflates the two because of their mutually ignorant national approach to this devastating disease.

And it is indeed a regional, not a national problem. In North America AIDS infection rates among adults are about 0.8%, and in Europe 0.3%. In Sub-Saharan Africa they are about 6.1% and still rising, largely due to the type of ignorance Randi describes as prevalent in "these countries."

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/90/Africa_HIV-AIDS_300px.png

There are indeed some examples of hope in battling the AIDS crisis in sub-Saharan Africa but I think you will agree that the crisis is rampant throughout the region, in large part due to non-response or lack of scientific leadership in nations like Gambia, Botswana, South Africa, Tanzania, Kenya and Congo. While Uganda has been among the most devastated nations, there are some signs of hope recently that public health education is having an impact (one recent study I recall seeing has the incidence of AIDS in Uganda lowering from 11% to 6% in recent years, in large part due to intensive education programs by the WHO and successful battling of ARV drug patents to make generic treatment more available).

I agree that it would be helpful to point out those examples where sensible thinking is making a difference in the region, and perhaps if you pointed some of the "enlightened leaders and strong programs to promote scientific knowledge" out to Randi he would mention them as examples of cases when sensible thinking does indeed solve problems. But I don't have an issue with Randi's categorizing it as an African problem, and I largely agree with him as to the reasons for the problem.

Gbob
17th March 2007, 07:30 AM
And one should keep in mind that he has the same opinion about America and the rest of the world as well. Perhaps he is a bit to pessimestic, but when you fight the good fight as long as he has and still you don't see much progress, it's easy to come to that conclusion.

Wolfman
17th March 2007, 10:06 AM
grunion,

Thank you very much for a much more detailed explanation of the situation; as you stated, this is a regional problem, not a continent-wide problem! A differentiation which James Randi not only does not even try and make, but which he confuses by jumping back and forth between references to individual nations (Gambia and South Africa), and to "African countries" as a whole.

I appreciate that there will be many here who will be apologists for Mr. Randi, seeking to explain why "this isn't so bad"; yet I'm quite confident that if one of his opponents made such broad, unsubstantiated and generalized comments like this on a different topic, he'd be jumping all over them. It is simply my contention that his statements should be held to the same standard of accuracy and truth to which he holds others.

Has he done that in this article? Far from it. Were I an African reading this, I'd certainly agree with the principle that there is a need to get rid of the superstition and ignorance surrounding issues such as AIDS; but I'd take gross offense at statements that they are "on the road to nowhere".

Even the most basic research will demonstrate that while this problem is certainly still rampant in certain countries (Gambia being a key example), many other African nations are, in fact, making significant inroads and limiting and even decreasing rates of infections in their countries. Due to education, and the triumph of science over ignorance and superstition.

I doubt that this was Randi's actual intent; I suspect rather that it is a result of the very sad Western tendency to consider Africa as a "country", instead of recognizing that it is a collection of nations and cultures which are incredibly diverse, and which have huge differences. I myself have traveled to 8 different African nations; and in Beijing, where I currently live/work, I have close connections with a number of the African embassies here, and attend various cultural events on a regular basis.

It is from that perspective -- the perspective of an African reader -- that I read this article, and find it repulsive.

Gbob,

Thanks for the comment, and I'm aware of J.R.'s generally pessimistic views of N. America, and other nations. But I do not recall reading articles in which he refers to decisions made by leaders in the United States, and then claims that those same decisions/problems are shared by Canadians and Mexicans. He's able -- so far as I can tell -- to clearly differentiate between those three different countries, even though they all share the same continent.

kittynh
17th March 2007, 10:52 AM
well my friend that lived in South AFrica said that South Africa is a reference to a region as well as a country.

sort of like a county and a town having the same name.

So he wasn't refering to South Africa the nation, it was South Africa the most highly infected area, yet that most resistant to modern treatment according to the UN.

South Africa the nation is not third world and is in fact quite advanced in many ways. So I have to say until I talked to my UN friend that had lived there, I couldn't figure out why he would refer to South Africa as backward.

I do know thier health minister and such was a nut job. I do know they had (have?) the highest incident of rape in Africa (though as my friend pointed out it was reported rapes, but difference). But as far as Africa goes South Africa is pretty well to do. They should be on the front line with good AIDS treatments and such.

I would say it was confusing, and not clear in exactlly which South Africa he was refering to. But it made sense when I had it explained.

Darth Rotor
18th March 2007, 11:25 PM
well my friend that lived in South AFrica said that South Africa is a reference to a region as well as a country.

sort of like a county and a town having the same name.

So he wasn't refering to South Africa the nation, it was South Africa the most highly infected area, yet that most resistant to modern treatment according to the UN.

South Africa the nation is not third world and is in fact quite advanced in many ways. So I have to say until I talked to my UN friend that had lived there, I couldn't figure out why he would refer to South Africa as backward.

I do know thier health minister and such was a nut job. I do know they had (have?) the highest incident of rape in Africa (though as my friend pointed out it was reported rapes, but difference). But as far as Africa goes South Africa is pretty well to do. They should be on the front line with good AIDS treatments and such.

I would say it was confusing, and not clear in exactlly which South Africa he was refering to. But it made sense when I had it explained.
The easy way to make the distinction is to use "Sub Saharan Africa" so as not to confuse with South Africa. Also, "southern Africa" makes that clear, like "southern Europe" would not include Norway or Denmark.

Randi stepped on his lizard (not a common happening) so I don't see the need for apologia. I also don't see any need for garment wringing, but I find Wolfman's post spont on, beyond my being unsure of why he thinks an obvious error is an insult.

DR

BillyJoe
19th March 2007, 03:58 AM
...I find Wolfman's post spont on......unlike your own. :D

Darth Rotor
19th March 2007, 10:42 AM
...unlike your own. :D
DOH! :blush: :blush: :blush:

Man, that was a lizard tap dancing moment, wasn't it? :blush: :blush:

DR

kittynh
19th March 2007, 10:59 AM
well it was rather confusing for me when I read it.

Because South Africa isn't all like Oprah Winfrey would have it look on tv.