John Rocker tells foreigners to "SPEAK ENGLISH!"

[EGarrett]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BysHeBPOYBY&NR

He says that the lack of cultural assimilation weakens American as a country...

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Why does John Rocker hate America?

[Charlie Monoxide]

Me speak engnish!

Charlie (Rocker in the USA) Monoxide

[shecky]

...because American culture is so fragile, you know.

[Roadtoad]

I haven't listened to a damned thing that brain dead jackoff has had to say in ages. Why would I give a rat's @$$ now?

[Art Vandelay]

You don't think that the thread title is rather misleading? He's not asking people in other countries to speak English.

[This Guy]

You don't think that the thread title is rather misleading? He's not asking people in other countries to speak English.

Well, it would sure make things easier on US when we visit those lands where the people don't have the decency and good sense to speak English!

I'm all for it!

Let's start with Canada! They need to speak English! I mean it's bad enough they sell their gas like we sell soda, except without the bottles... The least they could do is speak English! Talking about Zed's and stuff. What's wrong with them anyway?







:boxedin: :D

[joobie]

i read a great interview with him recently where he bemoaned that the only reason people thought badly about him was the hatchet job...written by one of those typical new york liberal jews.

seriously.

i'll have to dig up a link to it.

[Lonewulf]

I do think that foreigners coming into this country should learn the local language. I also think that Americans going into foreign countries should learn the local language. It's common sense.

But "cultural assimilation" is a whole new ballgame. He's basically saying, "I respect other cultures... but they should conform to my idea of American culture".

[WildCat]

I do think that foreigners coming into this country should learn the local language. I also think that Americans going into foreign countries should learn the local language. It's common sense.
You mean to live, not as tourists, don't you? I'd hate to be limited to what countries I can visit by my ability to speak the language.

[Lonewulf]

You mean to live, not as tourists, don't you? I'd hate to be limited to what countries I can visit by my ability to speak the language.

Yeah, to live. As immigrants. Thanks for the correction.

Though no offense, but I would expect you to at least have a local translation guide or phrase book with you, as a tourist.

[EGarrett]

The conclusion I came to (right now as I was writing this actually)...is that this will only happen if the groups are isolated from each other. As the groups intermix, the cultures also mix, and a unique American-culture emerges from that. That's probably where the "American" culture that Rocker now wants people to adhere to emerged from in the first place.

It's always been a unique combination of cultures, under a government that allows for it. and I think that trying to keep people out now is probably just being ignorant of that.

[Zep]

So what language do you speak in America? Most of the people I ran into there could speak English as well...

[UnrepentantSinner]

So what language do you speak in America? Most of the people I ran into there could speak English as well...

Did you have any conversations with the housekeeping staff at the Stardust?

Over the past 10 yeas the majority of residents in my apartment complex has become Hispanic*. When I walk to get my mail or such, I sometimes hear their children speaking English, but most of the adults and kids speak Spanish. I have even received notices from complex management only in Spanish. I don't speak Spanish, but I can recognize enough words to tell if the notices apply to me or not.

*meaning the governments definition

[Mycroft]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BysHeBPOYBY&NR

He says that the lack of cultural assimilation weakens American as a country...

He has a point. I can't imagine going to live in another country without learning their language, I think it's reasonable to expect others to learn English if they choose to live in the USA.

At the same time, it's not as though I get bent out of shape over it. If someone manages to get by without learning the language, then I'm only annoyed about it if somehow I'm forced to interact with them.

[Art Vandelay]

But "cultural assimilation" is a whole new ballgame. He's basically saying, "I respect other cultures... but they should conform to my idea of American culture".Well, they should. Not in the sense of not doing anything differently, but in the sense of recognizing that when there's a conflict, they should defer to American culture. People who want to wear a burka while taking their driver's license photo, or trash a Muslim owned liquor store,, etc. are taking multiculturism too far.

Yeah, to live. As immigrants. Thanks for the correction.

Though no offense, but I would expect you to at least have a local translation guide or phrase book with you, as a tourist.Well, I think that different standards makes sense. Yeah, take a phrase book. But a non-American who is planning on doing a lot of traveling should either learn the language of every country that he visits, or learn English. An American who knows English is being reasonable if he expects people who deal with a lot of foreigners to learn Englsih.

[shecky]

People who want to wear a burka while taking their driver's license photo, or trash a Muslim owned liquor store,, etc. are taking multiculturism too far.



Trashing a Muslim owned liquor store is multi-culturalism? That would certainly be taking something too far.

People should be free to do as they choose. That includes speak whatever language they please. Every immigrant to the US knows full well there is a glass ceiling for non English speakers. Just as there's a glass ceiling for high school graduates. And a glass ceiling for English-only speakers. Those ceilings are the ultimate motivators to learn the language, as they should be. A T shirt, in English, I might add, is unlikely to do anything but advertise one's bigotry.

Those motivated/bright enough will learn. Many never become proficient. Their children will certainly learn. By the third generation, there's a good chance they speak only English. And become increasingly prone to wearing T shirts saying "Speak English".

[joobie]

as promised, the rocker interview (http://deadspin.com/sports/baseball/our-interview-with-john-rocker-221509.php), along with jeff pearlman's response (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=pearlman/061214).

[Michael Redman]

People should be free to do as they choose. That includes speak whatever language they please. Every immigrant to the US knows full well there is a glass ceiling for non English speakers. Just as there's a glass ceiling for high school graduates. And a glass ceiling for English-only speakers. Those ceilings are the ultimate motivators to learn the language, as they should be. A T shirt, in English, I might add, is unlikely to do anything but advertise one's bigotry.

Those motivated/bright enough will learn. Many never become proficient. Their children will certainly learn. By the third generation, there's a good chance they speak only English. And become increasingly prone to wearing T shirts saying "Speak English".My grandmother was born when her parents were just off the boat from Sicily. Her parents never learned more than a couple of words of English. My grandmother was fluently bilingual (spoke English with a heavy Italian accent). When I was a kid, she and her sister would switch to Italian when the conversation got serious. Much more expressive language for them. Plus, it made the hand gestures look more natural.

Many of the men on the boat with my great grandparents came to America to work, earn money, send it back to Italy, and then return after a few years. You don't hear much about that these days, for some reason.

This country has always had a significant contingent of non English speaking people. Mostly immigrants, but some multi-generational. Most northern cities still have neighborhoods where a particular European language is widely spoken. Many Cajuns didn't speak English until highways were cut through the swamps of Southern Louisiana. Farmers today in rural Minnesota have inherited farms from bilingual fathers who spoke Norwegian, learned from fathers who spoke nothing else.

Of course, since colonial days, native English speakers have always complained that non English speaking foreigners were ruining the culture, and should assimilate and learn English or go home.

[Lonewulf]

Of course, since colonial days, native English speakers have always complained that non English speaking foreigners were ruining the culture, and should assimilate and learn English or go home.

But surely you don't think that it's easy to deal with someone, in today's society, especially in an industrial environment, that doesn't speak english?

[Michael Redman]

But surely you don't think that it's easy to deal with someone, in today's society, especially in an industrial environment, that doesn't speak english?I don't believe the issue is significantly different than it was 100 years ago.

[Lonewulf]

I don't believe the issue is significantly different than it was 100 years ago.

Really? So there were help desks? Receptionists? Business leaders that had to run conference calls?

You live in a different world than I do, bro.

But hey, if you think it's easy to deal with someone that doesn't speak a word of the language you know, and you don't understand a word of their language, that's just fine. Forgive me if I don't share that belief, however.

[Kerberos]

Well, I think that different standards makes sense. Yeah, take a phrase book. But a non-American who is planning on doing a lot of traveling should either learn the language of every country that he visits, or learn English. An American who knows English is being reasonable if he expects people who deal with a lot of foreigners to learn Englsih.
That depends on where you're going really, the major foreign language in Turkey among tourists appears to be German, much to my aggrivation (since my German is horrible). English langauge skills in Austria appears to be quite limited too in my experience since most of their tourists are Germans, meaning no language barrier. Going to Denmark on the other hand you assumption would be entierly correct (whether the people you talked to worked in the tourist industry or not actually). I even know of a Brit who took up permanent residence in Denmark without ever learning Danish, though that is the exception.

[hgc]

Really? So there were help desks? Receptionists? Business leaders that had to run conference calls?

You live in a different world than I do, bro.

But hey, if you think it's easy to deal with someone that doesn't speak a word of the language you know, and you don't understand a word of their language, that's just fine. Forgive me if I don't share that belief, however.


It's really unchanged, in the sense that people who need to learn the language in order to function do so, and people who don't need to may or may not. There will always be a segment of immigrants who stick to their immigrant neighborhoods and do business with others who speak their language.

[Michael Redman]

Really? So there were help desks? Receptionists? Business leaders that had to run conference calls?Of course, in one form or another. Business communication was not invented with the telephone. I fail to see how this is relevant.But hey, if you think it's easy to deal with someone that doesn't speak a word of the language you know, and you don't understand a word of their language, that's just fine. Forgive me if I don't share that belief, however.I'll forgive you for making up that ridiculous strawman. I said nothing of the sort.

[Solus]

John Rocker... The racist baseball player? What's new?

[Steven Howard]

I seem to have misplaced my list of reasons why I should care what baseball players think about anything other than baseball.

[Giz]

It's really unchanged, in the sense that people who need to learn the language in order to function do so, and people who don't need to may or may not. There will always be a segment of immigrants who stick to their immigrant neighborhoods and do business with others who speak their language.

Such cultural/ethnic ghettos aren't really a good thing though are they?

[UnrepentantSinner]

Such cultural/ethnic ghettos aren't really a good thing though are they?

There aren't ghettos per se in the European context, but are more like self aggregating enclaves. I don't think they're helpful in encouraging assimilation, but places like China Town and Little Italy do make for interesting places to visit don't you think?

[skeptifem]

I remember once in security dispatch where some lady kept calling, screaming spanish at us and no one could figure out what the hell was wrong or what she needed until about the 4th call, she was stuck in an elevator.

Then there are people following you around in the grocery store (yes, this has happened many times to me and my mother) speaking spanish, who knows what they want, and they wont stop *********** following you, no matter how much you gesture that you dont know any spanish at all. it borders on creepy.

Ive lived in a neighborhood where being white was very much the minority, and it sucked. I couldnt purchase things because all the signs were in spanish and the sales representatives didnt speak english, and I couldnt even tell what half the *********** stores contained, and the english side to any important signs was not prominently displayed. Think the 'chicken sandwhich' scene in the goobacks episode of south park. I shouldnt have so much difficulty using english in the us.

Can you just imagine flying to france and following someone around in a store yapping at them in english non stop? Or trying to make france print all their signs and forms in english? LOL the *********** balls of some of these people.

[Solus]

I remember once in security dispatch where some lady kept calling, screaming spanish at us and no one could figure out what the hell was wrong or what she needed until about the 4th call, she was stuck in an elevator.

Then there are people following you around in the grocery store (yes, this has happened many times to me and my mother) speaking spanish, who knows what they want, and they wont stop *********** following you, no matter how much you gesture that you dont know any spanish at all. it borders on creepy.

Ive lived in a neighborhood where being white was very much the minority, and it sucked. I couldnt purchase things because all the signs were in spanish and the sales representatives didnt speak english, and I couldnt even tell what half the *********** stores contained, and the english side to any important signs was not prominently displayed. Think the 'chicken sandwhich' scene in the goobacks episode of south park. I shouldnt have so much difficulty using english in the us.

Can you just imagine flying to france and following someone around in a store yapping at them in english non stop? Or trying to make france print all their signs and forms in english? LOL the *********** balls of some of these people.

Sounds like San Bernardino. The P.C. response is that you should learn Spanish and deal enjoy the cultural diversity. My response is that your situation is unfortunate. The only thing that really bugs me is the encroaching Korean community where I currently live. All the signs in that section of town are in Korean and I find it to be exclusionary. What if I want to visit your store why not have sign in English and be friendly to all groups. That excludes me and basically tells me I can't stop there because I"m not Korean. It's subtle but that's how I see it. There are can be too much of a good thing.

[skeptifem]

^^^yeah well I think that peoples private businesses can display whatever they want(whatever language), but people who want to live here should be able to speak english to make everything run more smoothly for people who do live here(in hospitals, work, and government), they wouldnt have to live in clusters in order to survive only knowing spanish and I could communicate with others if needed. I also doubt everything would be in foreign languages exclusivley if english was widely understood anyway. My biggest fear living there was getting in a car accident and having no one to translate. Im out of there now, but it was pretty terrible.

It just seems so weird, I would feel so absolutely rude if I acted like that twards a country that I was visiting, much less living in. I dont understand the pc answer, its like deciding its just better to go along with people making insane demands of you... ???

[Tony]

Although I think the "Speak English" campaign by Rocker is rooted in xenophobia. I agree with the few previous posters. I don't mind making minor accommodations to non-English speakers ("press 1 for English", bi-lingual signs, ethnic street signs). However, I think English should have primacy and non-English speakers should be encouraged to eventually learn English and adapt to American society.

[Solus]

^^^yeah well I think that peoples private businesses can display whatever they want(whatever language), but people who want to live here should be able to speak english to make everything run more smoothly for people who do live here(in hospitals, work, and government), they wouldnt have to live in clusters in order to survive only knowing spanish and I could communicate with others if needed. I also doubt everything would be in foreign languages exclusivley if english was widely understood anyway. My biggest fear living there was getting in a car accident and having no one to translate. Im out of there now, but it was pretty terrible.

It just seems so weird, I would feel so absolutely rude if I acted like that twards a country that I was visiting, much less living in. I dont understand the pc answer, its like deciding its just better to go along with people making insane demands of you... ???

Your point about business makes more sense. The issues you describe sound to be quite a bit more serious than lack of customer friendliness. Money is green anyway I could go in and buy something if I wanted to, I just wouldn't know what the store was selling from the sign.

I think the P.C. answer is a result of the extreme racist past of the United States. The people who would give such an answer weren't living where you were. High minded ideas are one thing but to actually deal with a situation is another. Often times those who give a P.C answer will be like a different person behind closed doors. Better to have open discussion on the issue I think than to have some mindless slogans with no substance behind them.

Also to note many who come to this country illegally have no education and think in completely different terms. Some just come to send money back home to their families, they don't want to be American but are always going to be Mexican. Of course it varies from person to person.

[shecky]

Can you just imagine flying to france and following someone around in a store yapping at them in english non stop? Or trying to make france print all their signs and forms in english? LOL the *********** balls of some of these people.


Yeah, that's what the US needs. To be more like France.