"Obama is all hype."

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Sorry, but I just have to rant about this. I am so tired of people lamenting on the fact of Obama's popularity by insisted that, in reality, he has no real position on any issue. It's right here (http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/)!

He has made bi-partisan supported bills for many issues, even Iraq. Just because you are to lazy to bother to look at what he has to say or can offer a pointless anecdote of a political ignoramus (And really, those are so rare here in the States :rolleyes: ) does not mean that you can dictate reality.

[username]

It is nice that there is a web page showing his past positions. This doesn't really excuse the fact that the man isn't talking about his positions on the campaign trail, but instead chooses to speak in platitudes.

He is hyped. There may well be great substance, but don't lament that many of us don't see it.

It's because he isn't talking substance.

[Puppycow]

I find it strange that few people seem to say the same thing about Guiliani. I think Obama has more experience and has said more of substance than Guiliani.
But no one seems to notice that about Guiliani.

[RandFan]

Thanks,

I said shortly after Katrina that I would vote for anyone who would strengthen our domestic defenses. From your link:

Five years after 9/11, our country is still unprepared for a terrorist attack. From improving security for our transit systems and chemical plants, to increasing cargo screening in our airports and seaports, the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission have been underfunded and ignored. The 9/11 Commission gave the government five F's and 12 D's on the implementation of its recommendations. Senator Obama is a member of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee and has supported efforts to base homeland security spending on risk rather than pork-barrel politics. He has also introduced legislation to strength chemical plant and drinking water security and to enhance disaster preparedness.Ok, it's just a promise but I want someone to focus on this.

[corplinx]

Barack Obama is not all hype. Unfortunately, he _is_ a phenom and some people are enthralled by it. The problem with that for Barack Obama is that once he goes out of style he'll be in the voters' closets along with their parachute pants and bellbottoms. He's a fad. He has to keep the fad alive for over a year.

[RandFan]

Barack Obama is not all hype. Unfortunately, he _is_ a phenom and some people are enthralled by it. The problem with that for Barack Obama is that once he goes out of style he'll be in the voters' closets along with their parachute pants and bellbottoms. He's a fad. He has to keep the fad alive for over a year.You could be right. I'll be the first to acknowledge it if that happens. Till then I'm trying to convince people that he isn't just a fad. We will see.

[corplinx]

You could be right. I'll be the first to acknowledge it if that happens. Till then I'm trying to convince people that he isn't just a fad. We will see.

He isn't just a fad, but there is that aspect to his following. Saying he is "just a fad" negates his hard work and the fact that he is a very good politician.

[polkablues]

This is definitely a media problem, not a candidate problem. The sad fact is, the limited exposure to political campaigns that the average person subjects himself to (network news, newspapers, magazines) is more concerned with the horserace than with the policies and ideas that are actually at stake. When Newsweek or USA Today does an article about Obama, it's far less likely to be about his proposals and his stands on the issues than it is to be about his so-called feud with Hillary Clinton, or whether or not he's "black enough."

[Art Vandelay]

Sorry, but I just have to rant about this. I am so tired of people lamenting on the fact of Obama's popularity by insisted that, in reality, he has no real position on any issue. It's right here (http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/)!But that doesn't really address the claim that the support for Obama is just hype. Regardless of whether he has a clear position, if people aren't basing their support on that, then it is accurate to describe his popularity as "hype".

[steverino]

I don't know. These issues on the link seem very general and altruistic. He is a father of two and will "push for" this and that to "make the American family stronger." Whose family? Mine? My family is American.

He will "push for" this and that to make America energy-independent.

Is he for ANWAR? Drilling in the Gulf (like China is going to do)? Windmills in the Southwest?

Same old BS with a few hybrid cars thrown in. Vanilla ice cream in every pot.

[RandFan]

Vanilla ice cream in every pot.I thought it was a chicken but I'll take vanilla ice cream. One promise is as good as another.

[joobie]

it's "a chicken in every pot and a car in every garage."

does this mean someone is going to clean my garage so i can park a car there? i'd vote for that guy.

[Lonewulf]

Pfft. No nuclear energy initiatives? Go fig.

Anyways, yeah, it's a bit altruistic and general and vague, but what can ya do? There's only so much of a game plan you can make. I see the plan as somewhat a general direction that he plans to take.

[Dr Adequate]

I don't know. These issues on the link seem very general and altruistic. He is a father of two and will "push for" this and that to "make the American family stronger." Whose family? Mine? My family is American.

He will "push for" this and that to make America energy-independent. Yo. What you are reading on that page are summaries. Each heading on that page is a link to a page dealing specifically with that issue. You'll probably find the details you're looking for if you follow the links.

[Lonewulf]

Yo. What you are reading on that page are summaries. Each heading on that page is a link to a page dealing specifically with that issue. You'll probably find the details you're looking for if you follow the links.

Ah, yes, that's quite less vague... thank you.

[Tony]

it's "a chicken in every pot and a car in every garage."

does this mean someone is going to clean my garage so i can park a car there? i'd vote for that guy.

Nice avatar.

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Yo. What you are reading on that page are summaries. Each heading on that page is a link to a page dealing specifically with that issue. You'll probably find the details you're looking for if you follow the links.

Thanks, I was just about to bang my head on the keyboard :D .

[aerosolben]

Yo. What you are reading on that page are summaries. Each heading on that page is a link to a page dealing specifically with that issue. You'll probably find the details you're looking for if you follow the links.
Most of the detail links are pretty good - can't blame the candidate if many of his supporters aren't reading it.

One of them is still pretty vague - the "Reconciling Faith and Politics". It seems to be the only one where he doesn't outline any past positions - he just discusses a particular speech he gave.

However, reading between the lines, it seems to me that he is condemning the Christian Right - the two specific items he does call out are "plurality of faith" (sounds like "don't push your beliefs on other people") and "prevention of AIDS" (I immediately think of this as condemning the Catholic Church's actions in Africa, esp. given the previous item). Do these come across the same way to others, or am I just reading my biases into it?

[Upchurch]

Sorry, but I just have to rant about this. I am so tired of people lamenting on the fact of Obama's popularity by insisted that, in reality, he has no real position on any issue. It's right here (http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/)!
I spent a little bit of my lunch period looking up different people's platforms. The first resulted in my Giuliani thread before I realized not having an issues list was not all that uncommon.

I couldn't find them at all on Giuliani or Clinton's websites. Hooray for Obama and Romney for having them up front. Partial credit to McCain for making me dig for it.

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Most of the detail links are pretty good - can't blame the candidate if many of his supporters aren't reading it.

One of them is still pretty vague - the "Reconciling Faith and Politics". It seems to be the only one where he doesn't outline any past positions - he just discusses a particular speech he gave.

However, reading between the lines, it seems to me that he is condemning the Christian Right - the two specific items he does call out are "plurality of faith" (sounds like "don't push your beliefs on other people") and "prevention of AIDS" (I immediately think of this as condemning the Catholic Church's actions in Africa, esp. given the previous item). Do these come across the same way to others, or am I just reading my biases into it?

Yes, I get the feeling that he is talking about us embracing common values from various faiths and going with solutions that at the core work with everyone, not just ones own religion. Basically, he recognizes that we all have faith and can work together in politics.

Except not all of us have faith... But whatever. Hopefully now he won't be called a godless heathen (just a Muslim :) ).

[steverino]

Yo. What you are reading on that page are summaries. Each heading on that page is a link to a page dealing specifically with that issue. You'll probably find the details you're looking for if you follow the links.

Hi Dr. A. I did read two of the links. I just read a few more. Here is something I cherry-picked from the education thinggy:

Once they find entry-level work, low-income workers often are unable to break into middle-class jobs. Bridge programs can help by partnering the federal government with employers and community-based organizations to identify job opportunities, develop customized training programs, and place low-income employees in better jobs.

Like millions of others, I am a low-income worker thanks to the digital age, and people who started doing stuff themselves. (Photography, in my case.) Consider realtors, travel agents, stock brokers, record shop owners. These workers are unemployed or marginalized, as I have been, because people are doing stuff themselves. I now have a crap service job, and my colleagues (:p ) and I will need 4-10 years retraining in community college to even hope for what Obama defines as a "middle-class job." So I ask, how is Obama going to find me a "middle-class" job?:( I think we are on our own to better ourselves without some government bureaucracy trying to help, not that it is my demographic Obama is targeting here.

[Art Vandelay]

it's "a chicken in every pot and a car in every garage."

does this mean someone is going to clean my garage so i can park a car there? i'd vote for that guy.Of course, if every pot were to be immenently filled with a chicken, that would probably drive up the cost of pots.

[LawnOven]

Yo. What you are reading on that page are summaries. Each heading on that page is a link to a page dealing specifically with that issue. You'll probably find the details you're looking for if you follow the links.

Hahaha.

we are all good skeptics here. every one of us. yes.

[Darth Rotor]

Sorry, but I just have to rant about this. I am so tired of people lamenting on the fact of Obama's popularity by insisted that, in reality, he has no real position on any issue. It's right here (http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/)!

He has made bi-partisan supported bills for many issues, even Iraq. Just because you are to lazy to bother to look at what he has to say or can offer a pointless anecdote of a political ignoramus (And really, those are so rare here in the States :rolleyes: ) does not mean that you can dictate reality.
I am going to listen to his speech again later, on "Reconciling Faith and Politics." No further comments until then.

If BArak Obama can, via his leadership, pull this feat off, he would be eligile for a top three award as an American President, worthy of putting his face on Rushmore.

Degree of difficulty pretty high.

DR

[firecoins]

I find it strange that few people seem to say the same thing about Guiliani. I think Obama has more experience and has said more of substance than Guiliani.
But no one seems to notice that about Guiliani.
I somewhat disagree. Being a mayor of a major city is closer to being president than senator. But other than that, you are right.

[steverino]

I find it strange that few people seem to say the same thing about Guiliani. I think Obama has more experience and has said more of substance than Guiliani.
But no one seems to notice that about Guiliani.

Well, Obama's name is easier to spell. I'll give him that.

[aerosolben]

Yes, I get the feeling that he is talking about us embracing common values from various faiths and going with solutions that at the core work with everyone, not just ones own religion. Basically, he recognizes that we all have faith and can work together in politics.
Sorry, but that still sounds to me like fluff - might as well come out in support of motherhood and apple pie. I'm trying to see if that can be translated into a specific stand or course of action.

[Dr Adequate]

Hi Dr. A. I did read two of the links. I just read a few more. Here is something I cherry-picked from the education thinggy:

Once they find entry-level work, low-income workers often are unable to break into middle-class jobs. Bridge programs can help by partnering the federal government with employers and community-based organizations to identify job opportunities, develop customized training programs, and place low-income employees in better jobs.

Like millions of others, I am a low-income worker thanks to the digital age, and people who started doing stuff themselves. (Photography, in my case.) Consider realtors, travel agents, stock brokers, record shop owners. These workers are unemployed or marginalized, as I have been, because people are doing stuff themselves. I now have a crap service job, and my colleagues (:p ) and I will need 4-10 years retraining in community college to even hope for what Obama defines as a "middle-class job." So I ask, how is Obama going to find me a "middle-class" job?:( I think we are on our own to better ourselves without some government bureaucracy trying to help, not that it is my demographic Obama is targeting here.
Hi. I didn't understand much of that. I mean, I know what it means, but why are you asking me?

Let me replay in slow motion how I got involved in this thread. Someone (E.T.A: I just looked and it was you) said that Obama's "Issues" page was short on detail. I, a Limey and a looker-on, followed the link and pointed out that the headings on that page were also links. That was it.

Now you are asking me what Obama is going to do for underemployed photographers?

Why?

[steverino]

Hi. I didn't understand much of that. I mean, I know what it means, but why are you asking me?

Let me replay in slow motion how I got involved in this thread. Someone (E.T.A: I just looked and it was you) said that Obama's "Issues" page was short on detail. I, a Limey and a looker-on, followed the link and pointed out that the headings on that page were also links. That was it.

Now you are asking me what Obama is going to do for underemployed photographers?

Why?

I was responding to you that indeed I had read a link or two beyond the heading, and still Obama's platform seemed vague. I then went back and read a few more links. I then offered his "jobs program" as an example, or evidence,if you will, of his vagueness, a government initiative that sounds OK but one that I do not feel will help those of us who are underemployed.

As a Limey and a looker-on, look no further than Hillary. She will be our next president.

[Dr Adequate]

I was responding to you that indeed I had read a link or two beyond the heading, and still Obama's platform seemed vague. I then went back and read a few more links. I then offered his "jobs program" as an example, or evidence,if you will, of his vagueness, a government initiative that sounds OK but one that I do not feel will help those of us who are underemployed. Well, perhaps not the photographers so much. I don't know what to say about your personal situation. As a liberal, I can see that you have a point about your own and related professions. As a conservative, you think that you don't.

But I wasn't saying that Obama could solve all your personal woes, I was just saying that more detail could be found by following the links.

Sheesh.

As a Limey and a looker-on, look no further than Hillary. She will be our next president. $10 says otherwise, if you have PayPal.

I can't vote, but I can bet.

[Lonewulf]

$10 says otherwise, if you have PayPal.

I can't vote, but I can bet.

He can't be democratic, so he'll be capitalistic! :cool:

Gotta love it.

[The Atheist]

As a Limey and a looker-on, look no further than Hillary. She will be our next president.

Just to show that I can agree with Doc, I'd take $20 worth of that bet. Hillary = no way. She might conceivably win the Dem-nom, but pres? Never.