Freemasons and the Founders....

[Malachi151]

I was watching a show on the Freemasons last night in which they interviewed some current high level Freemasons in England.

What they said was that:

a number of the American Founders were indeed Freemasons.

the imagery one the dollar bill is indeed Freemason iconography.

the Freemasosn do not hold to any particular religious view, but all Freemasons must believe in some higher power.

the goal of the Freemasons is to change society in fundamental ways to be more in line with the ideology of the Freemasons themselves.

In terms of religions what I got from the little that they said in vieled lingo was that they are a group that does not hold any particular religious view and they have been making an effort over the past few hundreds years to break down the role of traditional religion in society.

An interesting thing to note if you consider the role that America has played in theat regard, and if you consider that it may well have been heavily influenced by this group.

[Checkmite]

Considering that many of them were Masons, it makes sense that many of the founding fathers' ideals and values are shared by other Masons. There are some who go too far with the suggestions, however - such as the claim that Washington DC was arranged as some sort of Masonic symbol.

[Supercharts]

Added better link:
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/mashist.htm

But to directly answer the assertions from the initial post this is what's there:
"20 GREATEST NAMES OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION

John Adams - Spoke favorably of Freemasonry -- never joined
Samuel Adams - (Close and principle associate of Hancock, Revere & other Masons
Ethan Allen - Mason
Edmund Burke - Mason
John Claypoole - Mason
William Daws - Mason
Benjamin Franklin - Mason
Nathan Hale - No evidence of Masonic connections
John Hancock - Mason
Benjamin Harrison - No evidence of Masonic connections
Patrick Henry - No evidence of Masonic connections
Thomas Jefferson - Deist with some evidence of Masonic connections
John Paul Jones - Mason
Francis Scott Key - No evidence of Masonic connections
Robert Livingston - Mason
James Madison - Some evidence of Masonic membership
Thomas Paine - Humanist
Paul Revere - Mason
Colonel Benjamin Tupper - Mason
George Washington - Mason
Daniel Webster - Some evidence of Masonic connections
Summary: 10 Masons, 3 probable Masons, 1 Humanist, 2 Advocates of Freemasonry, 4 no record of connections.

SIGNERS OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE

Known Masons (8): Benjamin Franklin, John Hancock, Joseph Hewes, William Hooper, Robert Treat Payne, Richard Stockton, George Walton, William Whipple

Evidence of Membership And/or Affiliations (7): Elbridge Berry, Lyman Hall, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Nelson Jr., John Penn, George Read, Roger Sherman

Summary: 15 of 56 Signers were Freemasons or probable Freemasons.

It's true that this represents only 27% of the total signers. But this 27% included the principle movers of the Revolution, most notably Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson, the primary authors of the Declaration. The former was a Freemason, the latter a deist and possible Freemason. If one were to analyze the Declaration, he would see the humanistic influences.

In any event, there is no evidence that even 27% of the signers were true Christians. In considering whether or not this is a Christian nation, it isn't the number of Masons that is as important as is the number of founders overall who were non-believers.

SIGNERS OF THE CONSTITUTION

Known Masons (9): Gunning Bedford, Jr., John Blair, David Brearly, Jacob Broom, Daniel Carrol, John Dickinson, Benjamin Franklin, Rufus King, George Washington

Evidence of Membership And/or Affiliations (13): Abraham Baldwin, William Blount, Elbridge Gerry, Nicholas Gilman, Alexander Hamilton, Thomas Jefferson, John Lansing, Jr., James Madison, George Mason, George Read, Robert Morris, Roger Sherman, George Wythe

Those Who Later Became Masons (6): William Richardson Davie, Jr., Jonathan Dayton, Dr. James McHenry, John Francis Mercer, William Patterson, Daniel of St. Thomas Jenifer

Summary: 28 of 40 signers were Freemasons or possible Freemasons based on evidence other than Lodge records.

MASONIC INFLUENCES IN EARLY AMERICAN HISTORY

- Lafayette, French liaison to the Colonies, without whose aid the war could not have been won, was a Freemason.

- The majority of the commanders of the Continental Army were Freemasons and members of "Army Lodges."

- Most of Washington's Generals were Freemasons.

- The Boston Tea Party was planned at the Green Dragon Tavern, also known as the "Freemasons' Arms," and "the Headquarters of the Revolution."

- George Washington was sworn in as the first President of the United States by Robert Livingston, Grand Master of New York's Masonic Lodge. The Bible on which he took his oath was from his own Masonic lodge.

- The Cornerstone of the Capital building was laid by the Grand Lodge of Maryland.

Even if the initiators of the Revolution had been Christians, the fact remains that the Revolutionary War and the nation's government were structured by the tenets of Freemasonry, not God's Word. It was an unholy alliance at best.

Scripture tells us that God has made one nation of all: the Church. It is the Church that is our "Christian nation," not the social and political institutions of the world.

We can thank our heavenly Father that we enjoy the freedoms that this republic grants us. But as citizens of Heaven, our allegiance is first to our brethren in foreign countries. Otherwise, we may find ourselves killing true Christians for political causes.

We must be vigilant to the dangers of becoming embroiled in political and social causes in the name of Christ. Else we will find ourselves unequally yoked, storing up for ourselves wood, hay, and stubble for the day of judgment.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* This material has been excerpted from a 6/90 Media Spotlight Special Report -- "A Masonic History of America," by Al Dager."

[American]

Free Masons are a proving ground for other orders of leadership. You prove your worth, ability, and willingness, you could be selected to join a higher group in the New World Order.



Skulls and Bones, Bohemian Grove, Pilgram Society, Atlantic Institution...

Illuminati = "1000 points of light, leading the way."

JREF, on the other hand, is not a secret group. Someone as honest as Randi can't be trusted with membership unfortunately, however great his talent.



I really think they should recruit a few low-level people (like me) who know what's going on in the pits of society. It's easy to get out-of-touch when you have billions of lives and dollars at your fingertips.

[Frostbite]

Originally posted by Joshua Korosi
(...) Washington DC was arranged as some sort of Masonic symbol.

It can be interpreted thus.

[Larspeart]

The symbol on the dollar (eye over the pyrimid) is indeed Masonic.

The bible used to swear in Washington, and several (not ALL) other Presidents is a masonic bible, and a fiercely guarded one at that.

a GREAT deal of founding fathers were masons, as well as town leaders for the 1st 50-70 years of American history.

[Frostbite]

I guess the question is, does the US government have a religious agenda?

[Supercharts]

At the time of the Constitution no. Currently, with 'faith-based' crap from George W. probably... :(

[Brown]

"No evidence of Masonic connections" means: Yes, that's the sort of blinkered, Philistine pig-ignorance I've come to expect from you non-creative garbage. You sit there on your loathesome, spotty behinds, squeezing blackheads, not giving a tinker's cuss for a struggling artist. You excrement! You whining, hypocritical toadies, with your colour TV sets and your Tony Jacklin golf clubs, and your bleeding secret Masonic handshakes... you wouldn't let me join, would you, you black-balling bastards?!! Well, I wouldn't become a Freemason now, if you got down on your lousy, stinking knees and begged me!Sorry, just had to include that rant.

[Checkmite]

Originally posted by Frostbite


It can be interpreted thus.

Any city's layout can be interpreted thusly.

[Frostbite]

Originally posted by Joshua Korosi
Any city's layout can be interpreted thusly.

Don't be afraid to give us examples.

[Charlie Monoxide]

The bible used to swear in Washington, and several (not ALL) other Presidents is a masonic bible, and a fiercely guarded one at that.

Is that true? Did JFK swear on this bible? I always thought that the Masons were very anti-catholic. Perhaps he was one of the "not ALL"'s.

Charlie (biblically confused) Monoxide

[Checkmite]

Originally posted by Frostbite


Don't be afraid to give us examples.

Masonic Symbology in Selected Cities (http://www.geocities.com/jkorosi/masoncities.html)

You'll notice that although I used existing intersections and roads in many places, the lines may as well have been arbitrarily plotted - just as they are when a Masonic symbol is superimposed over a street map of Washington DC.

[Frostbite]

Originally posted by Joshua Korosi


Masonic Symbology in Selected Cities (http://www.geocities.com/jkorosi/masoncities.html)

You'll notice that although I used existing intersections and roads in many places, the lines may as well have been arbitrarily plotted - just as they are when a Masonic symbol is superimposed over a street map of Washington DC.

Heh I don't know what the hell that was, I didn't see anything that would resemble an alignment. I was referring more of the pentagram in downtown Washington which has the White House as its apex.

Here's a pic.

http://www.restonpaths.com/BeforeBeltway/Images/DowntownDC.jpg

EVERYTHING is aligned. The Capitol, the WH, the Lincoln Memorial, the Jefferson memorial, three major intersections and National Museum of American Art, the Reflecting Pool and Washington Memorial. And this is just at-a-glance. Probably has some masonic symbolism but I don't know exactly what it means.

[I'll_buy_that]

Originally posted by Joshua Korosi


Masonic Symbology in Selected Cities (http://www.geocities.com/jkorosi/masoncities.html)

.

How come in London, the square isn't..er..um..how do you say it?...square?

[Malachi151]

WTF are these maps about? All I see is regular maps with lines drawn on them in photoshop that don't go along any of the roads. Looks like total BS to me.

[Frostbite]

Here, because Joshua made such an effort to do these images, I did the same:

http://www.pktbo.com/_test/washington.jpg

[Larspeart]

Yes, if memory serves, they are non (not sure about anti) catholics, and I highly doubt a Kennedy would request it (as a President must request it). Both Bush's did, I believe Reagan did, Theo Roos did I believe. A number have.

Yes, I purposely tried to make it clear that not every President has. The Freemason's have been very active to this day in politics though.

Skull and Bones can claim several Presidents as well, but I believe more Presidents have had ties to Freemasonry then Skull and Bones.

My take? I'd kill (literally) to get into either one. An essentially free ride for life, connections p the wa-zoo, money, power. Ahh, the American dream!
;)

[Grammatron]

Originally posted by Frostbite


It can be interpreted thus.

Oh please :rolleyes:

Give me a city map large enough and I'll write your name in using only street lines.

[Frostbite]

Originally posted by Grammatron


Oh please :rolleyes:

Give me a city map large enough and I'll write your name in using only street lines.

Well of course, I'm a 33rd degree Mason and I have my own Lodge. :rolleyes:

[Checkmite]

Originally posted by I'll_buy_that


How come in London, the square isn't..er..um..how do you say it?...square?

The same reason that in Washington, the pentagram isn't equilateral: that is, it wasn't meant to be that way.

[Boo]

Masonry and Catholicism are incompatible from the churches view in that meetings are held in secret and the Catholic church did not wish it's members to have secrets from it.

That's the simple explanation. The complicated one dates to the Knights Templar, Malta, the Vatican and the Crusades.

Depending on the very human mores of various lodges this has translated into out right prejduice, etc. against 'papists'.

My family has been very active in Masonry and it's related organizations many generations. While not privy to the secrets, it has been a part of my life. Masonry is no better or worse than any other orginization that promotes the ideals of Christian Brotherhood, good works, etc. They just have a longer and more visible history.

FYI, the Catholic version is the Knights of Columbus.


Boo

[Mike B.]

Actually wasn't Washington DC designed by a French Catholic (non-Mason) in the early 1800s?

:confused:

[Ladewig]

I never noticed it until you posted the D.C. map, but if one runs a line from the White House to the westernmost point of the pentagram and extends the line exactly 6 miles, one ends up at the exact location of Vince Foster's body. I wonder why this fact was not covered by the media. Of course, I'm just kidding here - I know why that was never covered by the media.

As for the "Masonic symbols" in the layout of D.C., I think most of them can be ascribed to (a) the city planner liking symmetry and (b) the need to have several streets converge at a single point in order to defend the city with the use of cannons.

[WildCat]

Who controls the British crown?
Who keeps the metric system down?
We do! We do!
Who keeps Atlantis off the maps?
Who keeps the Martians under wraps?
We do! We do!
Who holds back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star?
We do! We do!
Who robs the cave fish of their site?
Who rigs every Oscar night?
We do! We do!

Oh wait, that's the Stonecutters song from the Simpsons. Never mind.