Overwhelming evidence for God (for AgingYoung)

[Marquis de Carabas]

Aside from that point there is the idea that it's most difficult to prove that God doesn't exist; you must simply believe He doesn't in the face of the overwhelming evidence.

Gene
Very well. Please present the overwhelming evidence.

[Fengirl]

Sure is quiet in here...

[Wudang]

Well it's obvious surely. Someone so intelligent and all-round wonderful as myself could never have arisen by chance therefore I was made by something. That something must be even more wonderful and the only thing that could be more wonderful than me would have to be a Supreme Being. Q, I rather think, ED.

(with a tip of the hat to Bertrand Russell)

[3point14]

Still very quiet in here though.......

[Marquis de Carabas]

Give him some time.

[Orangutan]

http://www.brandens.net/files/Sounds/FX/Animals/CRICKET.WAV

[Fengirl]

I was thinking, we need a tumbleweed smiley...

[Marc L]

Give him some time.

Agreed. MdC posted this last evening, and it's only 7am on a workday (at least in California). Depending on what Gene does, he may legitimately not be able to get around to posting right away. Personally, I'd say give him 24 hours before saying he's avoiding the issue.

Marc

[3point14]

Agreed. MdC posted this last evening, and it's only 7am on a workday (at least in California). Depending on what Gene does, he may legitimately not be able to get around to posting right away. Personally, I'd say give him 24 hours before saying he's avoiding the issue.

Marc

Fair point.

I'll curb my impatience.

[J. Arthur Hastur]

I'm underwhelmed by the evidence so far.

[Miss Anthrope]

Ebola?

[J. Arthur Hastur]

I've got a touch of something..................

[Fengirl]

Agreed. MdC posted this last evening, and it's only 7am on a workday (at least in California). Depending on what Gene does, he may legitimately not be able to get around to posting right away. Personally, I'd say give him 24 hours before saying he's avoiding the issue.

Marc

Fair enough. Sorry. The excitement of anticipation got the better of me.
I'll try to sit quietly and wait.

:popcorn1

[jesus_freak]

Creation is proof of a creator! its that simple.

[Miss Anthrope]

Creation is proof of a creator! its that simple.

That's overwhelming evidence of simplicity.

[Ossai]

jesus_freak
Creation is proof of a creator! its that simple. Then evil is proof of a sadistic creator. Its that simple.

[grayman]

Which one are we waiting on to post: Gene or God?






It is quiet here. I think I'll nap while waiting for Godot.

[jesus_freak]

what is evil? it is the lack of good...God did not create evil. Just like darkness is the lack of light, God did not create darkness.

[grayman]

So are you saying God has no control over what is created or brought forth in his creation.





There goes my nap.

[J. Arthur Hastur]

So are you saying God has no control over what is created or brought forth in his creation.





There goes my nap.

Of course not. The perfect, all powerful creator god has no control over creation. Not only that, but he made enough mistakes to have to:
1.) have his angelic creations rebel against him
2.) have to kick his first human creations out of paradise
3.) flood the earth to destroy his 'mistakes'
4.) continually send prophets and eventually his son to stop people mis-quoting him.


I could continue, but I think I've made my point. IF there is a creator god, he uses trial and error.

[luvlee]

I thought that god created everything. Which would entail both dark and light, no? The dichotomy of the universe.

[luvlee]

Hey Grayman, sleep is overrated anyway ... :D

[PrincessIneffabelle]

Creation is proof of a creator! its that simple.


Which creation story? Which creator? Which religion?

Why do you think that your particular religion is superior to all of the others? This is something about religious people that I simply do not understand. How can you "know" that your religion is the "true" one and your neighbor's is not? Why are you "blessed" but your (equally good/moral/religious) neighbor is not? It just seems so arrogant and self-righteous.

[billydkid]

Creation is proof of a creator! its that simple. and a creator is proof of a creator creator. and so on.

[my_wan]

:popcorn1

[Marquis de Carabas]

what is evil? it is the lack of good...God did not create evil. Just like darkness is the lack of light, God did not create darkness.
Kindly desist. AY said he had overwhelming evidence, and I would like him to present it.

[J. Arthur Hastur]

AgingYoung has been posting everywhere, but here it seems.

[Marquis de Carabas]

Let us think charitably of our fellow posters. I like to imagine he's taking his time. The presentation of overwhelming evidence should come in a well thought-out and probably fairly lengthy post. Patience is a virtue, they say.

[Cello Man]

what is evil? it is the lack of good...God did not create evil. Just like darkness is the lack of light, God did not create darkness.

Ok, let's run with this premise. Assuming God exists (and that's the biggest assumption you could ever make)

God=Good
Good=Light
Evil=Darkness

The presence of Darkness shows that Light is not everywhere. The absence of light in any place shows that God is not everywhere. If God is not everywhere, he is not omnipresent, nor all powerful. The only way God can be omnipresent and all powerful amid the existence of evil is if God is not purely Good.

Surely you've thought of this stuff by now.

[JoeTheJuggler]

Creation is proof of a creator! its that simple.

Yes--"creation" implies a "creator", so now prove the act of creation. Otherwise you're just begging the question.

[JoeTheJuggler]

I know, you're actually using "creation" ambiguously. On the one hand you use it to mean "the world" or even "the universe" in its folksy meaning. Of course no one can deny the existence of the world. In this sense "creation" does NOT imply creator.

You're also using it to mean "an act of creation" (a deniable assumption for which you've offered no evidence) which does imply "creator".

See: http://www.fallacyfiles.org/ambiguit.html

[JoeTheJuggler]

By the way, don't tell me that simply because we use the word "creation" or "creature" to refer to the world and animals in it respectively, that it means we have to accept the divine creation of the world.

It's the same reason I can't prove that you believe in Thor and Odin and the others even though you use the words "Wednesday" and "Thursday".

[J. Arthur Hastur]

Let us think charitably of our fellow posters. I like to imagine he's taking his time. The presentation of overwhelming evidence should come in a well thought-out and probably fairly lengthy post. Patience is a virtue, they say.

Your optimism is frightening.

[uruk]

what is evil? it is the lack of good...God did not create evil. Just like darkness is the lack of light, God did not create darkness.

Then why does god allow evil to exist?
To test us? Then he's sadistic and vain.
Because we allow evil to exist? Isn't god more powerfull than we are?
Because we have free will? See above
Because satan is around? Isn't god more powerful than satan?

In the bible God regularly talked to and made appearance to people, why doesn't he do it now?

[Marc L]

Ok, let's run with this premise. Assuming God exists (and that's the biggest assumption you could ever make)

God=Good
Good=Light
Evil=Darkness

The presence of Darkness shows that Light is not everywhere. The absence of light in any place shows that God is not everywhere. If God is not everywhere, he is not omnipresent, nor all powerful. The only way God can be omnipresent and all powerful amid the existence of evil is if God is not purely Good.

Surely you've thought of this stuff by now.

You lost me at Good=Light. Why does Good have to equal Light?

Marc

[Marquis de Carabas]

I realise I can't stop the discussion from ranging far afield of its intent, but in light of this (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2449473#post2449473), please stop replying to jesus_freak.

[Ossai]

No kidding. God dwells in darkness. Would that imply that god = evil?

[Darth Rotor]

Then why does god allow evil to exist?
Why not? What good is darkness without light?
To test us? Then he's sadistic and vain.
Sadistic only if pleasure is derived from this test, and vain . . . heck, if you were all powerful, you'd have the right to be vain. ;)
Because we allow evil to exist? Isn't god more powerfull than we are?
Consider: more patient and tolerant of error than we are.
Because we have free will? See above
Do you not make choices?
Because satan is around? Isn't god more powerful than satan?
I hear He's Satan's daddy. Permitted, we go back to "tolerant and patient."
In the bible God regularly talked to and made appearance to people, why doesn't he do it now?
Perhaps people have him on "ignore" in too many cases. ;)

DR

[Tanstaafl]

Perhaps people have him on "ignore" in too many cases. ;)

DR


OK Darth, as with so many of your posts, that one got a good chuckle from me.

But to be serious for a moment, there are a lot of atheists here who spent a lot of time very fervently seeking god, before they finally concluded that he just isn't there. They hardly had him on ignore.

[wahrheit]

I was thinking, we need a tumbleweed smiley...

Seconded. :thumbsup:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a335/Spagbol/tumbleweed2.gif

[Cello Man]

You lost me at Good=Light. Why does Good have to equal Light?

jesus freak seemed to be equivocating God with light and evil with darkness. I just ran with the metaphor and applied the Problem of Evil argument. A moot point now that he's fled the forum, I guess.

[The Atheist]

I realise I can't stop the discussion from ranging far afield of its intent, but in light of this (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2449473#post2449473), please stop replying to jesus_freak.


Good thread, light on evidence.

[uruk]

Why not? What good is darkness without light? Why does there have to be darkness at all? So we know how good good is? Surgar would be just as sweet even if there was no bitterness around. A flower would look just as beautiful even amoungst a thousand of its own kind.
I'd be pretty happy if everything was just dandy all the time every day.

Sadistic only if pleasure is derived from this test, and vain . . . heck, if you were all powerful, you'd have the right to be vain. ;) Hey, just because you can does not mean you should. An all knowing and compasionate god would know this.
Why would a compasionate god allow an innocent child to suffer greatly? So that he could test the parents? What about the child? Oh, but he'll be with god soon. Yea, great, let me suffer for the whole time I'm there.

Consider: more patient and tolerant of error than we are.
Oops! I got terrible painful cancer, my bad. What was my mistake? Hey I just got crippled or mutilated by a thief. Man, That must have been a doozy mistake I committed.
Why allow evil at all?

Do you not make choices? Why not design us in a way that we would not want to commit those "errors". We can choose other things, Just not these thing here. He can do anything right?
Remember the garden of eden?
Why did god create man in a perfect paradise and then put temptation in the middle of the whole thing and allow satan to tempt man? Isn't that setting us up to fail?
Maybe god got bored that everything was honky dorey.

I hear He's Satan's daddy. Permitted, we go back to "tolerant and patient."
Oh, I know my little satan will turn around and come back to me soon. In the mean time I'll let him cause untold horror and suffering to my little beloved ones on the earth.
So now god is a parent in denial?

Perhaps people have him on "ignore" in too many cases. ;)
Kinda hard to ignore a talking burning bush or a pillar of fire is'nt it?

[chriswl]

what is evil? it is the lack of good...
Nah. Sadness isn't the lack of euphoria. Physical pain isn't the absence of ecstasy. Murder isn't just a failure to be nice to someone.

Good and evil are different sorts of things and there are plenty of things that are neither good nor evil.

[J. Arthur Hastur]

If you can see in the dark, is it still dark?

[grayman]

I think I've posted this before but I'll write it again.

Either God is all knowing and free-will is an illusion,

or free will does give mankind a choice that God doesn't forsee and therefor God isn't all-powerful.

Can't have both.

[Cello Man]

grayman, your avatar is scary.

[grayman]

How about this?

Mankind = a busy anthill.

God = a kid with a magnifying glass on a sunny day.

[J. Arthur Hastur]

AgingYoung has taken his discussion on god into the:
'Revising my label - no longer 'atheist'' thread, conveniently ignoring this one.

[Tanstaafl]

grayman, your avatar is scary.

I second that. Really creeps me out. I'm almost tempted to put you on ignore, if that will make the avatar disappear. But I hate to miss what you write! We need an "ignore avatar" feature.

[grayman]

AgingYoung has taken his discussion on god into the:
'Revising my label - no longer 'atheist'' thread, conveniently ignoring this one.

Quick everyone! To the Skeptimobile!

[The Atheist]

We need an "ignore avatar" feature.

There is, in Control Panel > Options

[The Atheist]

If you can see in the dark, is it still dark?

Or, if god has no discernable effect on the universe, cannot answer prayers and has no substance or power, is he still god?

[Marquis de Carabas]

AgingYoung has taken his discussion on god into the:
'Revising my label - no longer 'atheist'' thread, conveniently ignoring this one.
How convenient. I started this thread because he asked me not to derail that one with this question. :rolleyes:

[J. Arthur Hastur]

Quick everyone! To the Skeptimobile!

Wipe your shoes before getting in this time.

[Wowbagger]

Perhaps by "overwhelming evidence" he really meant "overwhelming emotions".

Could it be possible he got those two words mixed up?

[J. Arthur Hastur]

Or, if god has no discernable effect on the universe, cannot answer prayers and has no substance or power, is he still god?

OR if a midget falls in the woods, does anybody laugh?

[J. Arthur Hastur]

How convenient. I started this thread because he asked me not to derail that one with this question. :rolleyes:

Mission accomplished?

[The Atheist]

OR if a midget falls in the woods, does anybody laugh?

Of course, you dolt!

The fairies, elves, leprechauns, gerbils, and if you're in the right woods, Sasquatch.

[J. Arthur Hastur]

Of course, you dolt!

The fairies, elves, leprechauns, gerbils, and if you're in the right woods, Sasquatch.

I require evidence. Evidence of an overwhelming nature before I believe that.

[Tanstaafl]

There is, in Control Panel > Options

No, I was looking for a way to suppress only his avatar.

But I wasn't entirely serious anyway.

[J. Arthur Hastur]

I think my avatar is scarier,overwhelmingly scarier.

[The Atheist]

No, I was looking for a way to suppress only his avatar.

But I wasn't entirely serious anyway.

I figured. :)

I love Grayman's avatar now that I've gotten over Kryten's removal.

[The Atheist]

I require evidence. Evidence of an overwhelming nature before I believe that.

St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica Prime Pars (http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1.htm)

A Posteriori argument:

The fact that contingent beings exist, i.e. beings whose non-existence is recognized as possible, implies the existence of a necessary being.

Ergo, gods, fairies and Sasquatch exist, along with UFOs the Loch Ness monster and Zarniwoop.

I win.

[J. Arthur Hastur]

Well, I'm overwhelmed!

[The Atheist]

Oh crapppppppppppppppppppp!!!!!!!!

Sorry, Marquis.

Now I've gone and proved that god exists as well.

I'll go PM Gene...

:bricks:

[Marquis de Carabas]

Has anyone ever been simply whelmed?

[jimlintott]

Has anyone ever been simply whelmed?

As I try to avoid extremes, I live in a state of constant whelm.

Some think it's just gas though.

[The Atheist]

Has anyone ever been simply whelmed?

No, but I've been consistently underwhelmed.

Every time I get into any kind of discussion regarding the supernatural or 9/11 CT.

[Macoy]

Having been brought up in a methodist environment & then schooled in an intensely anglican setting, i can honestly say, on reflection, that it was the behaviour & attitude of those who held themselves to be the most godly that began to turn me away from those beliefs.

[Lonewulf]

Still no evidence? Tsk.

[Macoy]

...blimey

[Tanstaafl]

I've been underwhelmed.

Many times.

[wahrheit]

Still no evidence? Tsk.

Weird, isn't it.

[Darth Rotor]

But to be serious for a moment, there are a lot of atheists here who spent a lot of time very fervently seeking god, before they finally concluded that he just isn't there. They hardly had him on ignore.
But they do now. :D Thanks for the set up, Tan.

I acknowledge completely that many people had a different journey than I have had in life, in roughly the opposite direction that mine has taken.

It's all good, and as I have stated previously, I am not fool enough to prostletyze on the internet.

DR

[Darth Rotor]

Has anyone ever been simply whelmed?

Yes, and it took six million units to clear up the aftermath. :p

DR

[c4ts]

Creation is proof of a creator! its that simple.

It's as simple as affirming the consequent...

[Tanstaafl]

But they do now. :D Thanks for the set up, Tan.


Glad to be of service!


I suppose at this point I do have god on ignore. But then again, if his abilities are even remotely what I'm told they are, he should have no trouble breaking through that. Worked with Saul/Paul.

[grayman]

Still no evidence? Tsk.

Just wait, anything that that takes this long to produce has to be good. :)

[The Atheist]

Just wait, anything that that takes this long to produce has to be good. :)

Hmmm. Ever seen how long it takes an elephant to crap?

[The Atheist]

I am not fool enough to prostletyze on the internet.

DR

I was gonna say that's because you're smarter than those who do proselytize, then I chekked yore speeling!

[The Atheist]

Have to say that this isn't a bad thread when all's said and done - shall I get the rest of the keg out?

Party up while we're waiting for Gene Genie.

[andyandy]

this is the best thread ever.

[grayman]

Hmmm. Ever seen how long it takes an elephant to crap?


What's the difference between a pub and elephant flatulence?




One's a baroom and the other's a BAROOM!

:)

[CapelDodger]

Good thread, light on evidence.
:D

Light, as any fule kno, is an electromagnetic phaenomenon, and so is similar in most ways to radio-waves. I've listened to radio in the dark, and I doubt I'm unique in that. The only distinguishing feature of "light" is as that part of the spectrum which is visible to humans. "Dark" being the absence of such radiation within the limitations of the measuring apparatus (aka human eye). To some thinking the humanness of it makes this important, but I don't see it myself. The ones who do think it significant are all humans.

OK, that's Light/Dark pinned down. Why, as was asked at one point, does Light=Good to humans? Because humans think that way, and humans are a diurnal species. Darkness is scary to us. Great eyesight and an excellent brain are no use to you when some killer (probably feline) pounces on you out of the night.

To a nocturnal metaphor-aware species Dark would be Good, Light would be Evil. The Sun blinds the eyes, burns the skin, and reveals you to your enemies (daytime predators). Dark is comforting, like the womb, the burrow, the night-time hunting-ground where those chimps can't see you coming ...

Perhaps one day we'll meet such a species and compare notes. I hope so.

[Macoy]

So to teach us a lesson, god prevented humans from evolving good night vision.

[CapelDodger]

this is the best thread ever.
Evidence?

:D

[SezMe]

Perhaps by "overwhelming evidence" he really meant "overwhelming emotions".

Could it be possible he got those two words mixed up?
You really think he got "overwhelming" confused with "overwhelming"? :)

[The Atheist]

Evidence?

:D


I was hoping someone would ask that question:

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s97/TheAtheist/thread.jpg

[Mashuna]

Has anyone ever been simply whelmed?

I was almost whelmed once, but I managed to avoid it, and settle into a state of gruntlement.

[luvlee]

well'md I am and well'md I be, forever friends we'll ever be.

Doesn't that sound like a jump rope rhyme from gradeschool?

[Björn Toulouse]

Still no evidence? Tsk.


Apparently there is so much evidence that it is taking a while to gather it together.

[wahrheit]

Apparently there is so much evidence that it is taking a while to gather it together.

Or maybe the forum database was unable to cope with this rush of uploaded evidence? We should ask Terry and Darat.

[Darth Rotor]

Glad to be of service!


I suppose at this point I do have god on ignore. But then again, if his abilities are even remotely what I'm told they are, he should have no trouble breaking through that. Worked with Saul/Paul.
Well, you could consider walking to Damascus, start making tents, or be content that for the nonce, "ignore" is working and you seem to be doing well enough to meet your needs. You are free to choose, eh?

One of the best ways to make a tent is to wear baggies and head to the beach on spring break. If the lovelies there don't induce tentage, I am not sure what will. :cool:

DR

[Darth Rotor]

I was gonna say that's because you're smarter than those who do proselytize, then I chekked yore speeling!
Well, it appears that my spelling has hit a bad patch lately, pros·e·lyt·ize seemed to elude my error detection subroutine. I messed up asinine the other day on Politics. I wonder if there is a subtle correlation in this.

Is it a sign that I need to convert . . . to the Firefox browser? :eye-poppi

DR

[Darth Rotor]

:D

Light, as any fule kno, is an electromagnetic phaenomenon, and so is similar in most ways to radio-waves. I've listened to radio in the dark, and I doubt I'm unique in that. The only distinguishing feature of "light" is as that part of the spectrum which is visible to humans. "Dark" being the absence of such radiation within the limitations of the measuring apparatus (aka human eye). To some thinking the humanness of it makes this important, but I don't see it myself. The ones who do think it significant are all humans.

OK, that's Light/Dark pinned down. Why, as was asked at one point, does Light=Good to humans? Because humans think that way, and humans are a diurnal species. Darkness is scary to us. Great eyesight and an excellent brain are no use to you when some killer (probably feline) pounces on you out of the night.

To a nocturnal metaphor-aware species Dark would be Good, Light would be Evil. The Sun blinds the eyes, burns the skin, and reveals you to your enemies (daytime predators). Dark is comforting, like the womb, the burrow, the night-time hunting-ground where those chimps can't see you coming ...

Perhaps one day we'll meet such a species and compare notes. I hope so.
So, as I understand you, plants don't care about light, photosynthesis is another myth, and falcons sense small rodents on the ground with radar. Light is just some illusion.

Got it. ;)

DR

[Marc L]

Have to say that this isn't a bad thread when all's said and done - shall I get the rest of the keg out?

Party up while we're waiting for Gene Genie.

I'll laugh if this turns into a 10K post thread without us ever touching the original topic....


Marc

[Marquis de Carabas]

I have PM'ed AY requesting his reply to this thread, and he has indicated that he will not be participating. I have asked for permission to quote the text of his refusal. If so given, I shall.

[Taffer]

What a shame. I guess we won't be getting our evidence after all. :rolleyes:

[andyandy]

I was hoping someone would ask that question:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/93384603eff1086e6.jpg

[J. Arthur Hastur]

Still no evidence? Here I was all ready to believe in god.

[Darth Rotor]

Still no evidence? Here I was all ready to believe in god.
But were you ready to believe in God? :confused:

DR

[RandFan]

But were you ready to believe in God? :confused:

DRI am. Less so now than 5 years ago when I longed for it and wrote about that longing on this forum, but yes, I am ready to believe in God.

[J. Arthur Hastur]

But were you ready to believe in God? :confused:

DR

Sure, if there is overwhelming evidence of a verifiable scientific nature.

[SezMe]

I'll laugh if this turns into a 10K post thread without us ever touching the original topic....
Now that AY has acknowledged that he is going to withhold his overwhelming evidence from us in this thread, I wonder how much longer it will survive?

[Marquis de Carabas]

Now that AY has acknowledged that he is going to withhold his overwhelming evidence from us in this thread, I wonder how much longer it will survive?
As long as people like you keep posting to it.

Er, and me, too, I guess...

[J. Arthur Hastur]

Well, I'm off. Maybe he'll have unveiled his evidence by the time I'm back on Monday.

[Hokulele]

I have PM'ed AY requesting his reply to this thread, and he has indicated that he will not be participating. I have asked for permission to quote the text of his refusal. If so given, I shall.


Did he ever respond to the PM?

[The Atheist]

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/93384603eff1086e6.jpg


Well if Cliff says it, it is true - he's very godly.

Amazing what a life of celibacy, sobriety and goodness does, he doesn't look anywhere near 65.

[andyandy]

he doesn't look anywhere near 65.

Maybe forever-young Cliff Richard is the overwhelming evidence for god we were promised....

[The Atheist]

Maybe forever-young Cliff Richard is the overwhelming evidence for god we were promised....

Chit! You could be right - the horrible little man [?] will live forever.

Ok, so that's god taken care of, now I have to go and do some serious sinning, because if he's in heaven, that doubles my determination to go to hell.

[Marquis de Carabas]

Did he ever respond to the PM?
He has not given me permission to quote the PM of his refusal. I shall paraphrase it now, and post the quote later, if allowed.

Essentially, he feels there are plenty of resources for Chrisitan apologetics floating around already.

[Hokulele]

He has not given me permission to quote the PM of his refusal. I shall paraphrase it now, and post the quote later, if allowed.

Essentially, he feels there are plenty of resources for Chrisitan apologetics floating around already.


OK, I wasn't so much interested in the actual text, as to whether or not he even bothered to respond. Thanks!

[temporalillusion]

and a creator is proof of a creator creator. and so on.

I would like to know why jesus_freak hasn't responded to this.

[Tanstaafl]

Well, he was going to, but then he started to work on explaining the creator creator creator, and that led him to thinking about the creator creator creator creator, and well, as soon as he gets to the bottom of this I'm sure he'll give us a full report! :)

[SezMe]

He'll be right back as soon as he hits a turtle.

[luvlee]

andy andy, I found a cool best thread ever pic, but when I copied the code to paste it here it just pasted the code and no picture shows up. How did you do that?

I guess Jesus freak left the boards. There was a link a page or two back about his goodbye thread.

[The Atheist]

I guess Jesus freak left the boards. There was a link a page or two back about his goodbye thread.

Nope, like a bad smell, he came straight back.

As to the pic, try uploading it to the VB Image Host and use that instead.

[Wowbagger]

You really think he got "overwhelming" confused with "overwhelming"? :)
That's not what I was originally asking, but...

...given what I know about the mentality of these ideologists, I wouldn't be surprised if they also failed to realize what "overwhelming" means.

[Miss Anthrope]

Nope, like a bad smell, he came straight back.



His less than 24 hour departure was nothing but a cry for attention and drama.;)

[andyandy]

andy andy, I found a cool best thread ever pic, but when I copied the code to paste it here it just pasted the code and no picture shows up. How did you do that?

.

you need to upload the image onto the JREF server - go to VB image host along the top menu bar, and then you can upload an image saved on your pc.....:)

[SpartanWarrior]

Somebody at the door said to come in here to see some overwhelming evidence for God.

Where is it? :confused:

[SpartanWarrior]

And if I can't find God in here, can somebody at least tell me where to get a good avatar?

[RandFan]

Google is your friend.

[The Atheist]

Somebody at the door said to come in here to see some overwhelming evidence for God.

Where is it? :confused:

You didn't look hard enough.

The christian loony didn't come up with it, so I had to post it (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2450434#post2450434).

[The Atheist]

And if I can't find God in here, can somebody at least tell me where to get a good avatar?

Here's one you can have:

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s97/TheAtheist/image003.gif

[RandFan]

There goes the next 20 minutes.

[Lonewulf]

There goes the next 20 minutes.

But what does the face look like?

For all you know, it's an ugly hag with big boobs.

[RandFan]

But what does the face look like?

For all you know, it's an ugly hag with big boobs.Yeah but they are nice boobs.

[The Atheist]

But what does the face look like?

For all you know, it's an ugly hag with big boobs.


So?

What if it is? Like you'd ever notice - and you could guarantee none of your mates would, either!

[Lonewulf]

What if it is? Like you'd ever notice - and you could guarantee none of your mates would, either!

Oh, I'd notice.

[Beerina]

what is evil? it is the lack of good...God did not create evil. Just like darkness is the lack of light, God did not create darkness.

Be very careful here.

The cosmology that is in the Bible was massaged and inherited from earlier cosmologies wherein God splits the void, the "surface of the waters", the waters of chaos. Did God create those waters, or was he just always there, as were the waters?

But that's not my point. My point is that God did create the darkness and the light, and he separated them, "..., the first day." Which doesn't make much sense since he didn't create the sun until 2 days later. "The day" is defined by the sun being above the horizon. There is no "day and night" without a sun and a rotating planet to stand on.

[billydkid]

Here's one you can have:

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s97/TheAtheist/image003.gif
man, that would make a wicked screensaver. You're my kind of infidel.

[Beerina]

Perhaps by "overwhelming evidence" he really meant "overwhelming emotions".

How about "overwhelming need for it to be true, in order to protect a massive emotional investment"?

If I had to list the top two or three things I learned in college, one was how people fight to rationalize positions they have an "emotional investment" in. (And the derivative result about getting people to participate in small ways starts to build this investment, then you get them to participate in larger ways. In this manner, you can "build them up" to doing big things that they would never have done had you asked them that in the first place.)

[Beerina]

But what does the face look like?

For all you know, it's an ugly hag with big boobs.

I learned a long time ago that I'd take a hot body with ugly face over a gorgeous face with scrawney body any day.

[Marc L]

I learned a long time ago that I'd take a hot body with ugly face over a gorgeous face with scrawney body any day.

Oh well, beggars can't be choosers, I suppose. :D

Marc

[SpartanWarrior]

Google is your friend.


Thank you. :)


I'll save the boobs for later. For private.

[Hokulele]

How about "overwhelming need for it to be true, in order to protect a massive emotional investment"?

If I had to list the top two or three things I learned in college, one was how people fight to rationalize positions they have an "emotional investment" in. (And the derivative result about getting people to participate in small ways starts to build this investment, then you get them to participate in larger ways. In this manner, you can "build them up" to doing big things that they would never have done had you asked them that in the first place.)


There is actually a great book about all of that. "Dynamics of Faith" by Paul Tillich. It's pretty old, but still very relevant. He is a christian author, but the book deals with faith in general, not in the christian sense per se. Some of the examples are faith in money, faith in other people, etc. The one phrase that really stuck in my mind was "existential disappointment". In other words, what happens when your faith is destroyed not by your own choosing.

[The Atheist]

Ok, we've had the boobs - I'm trying to ensure this stays the Best Thread of All TimeTM.

Here's a good one - instead of an all-seeing god, we have all-seeing mobile phone networks! This is another example of privacy loss at its very worst.

Key in a mobile and track 'em down. (http://www.sat-gps-locate.com/)

I tried it with my wife's mobile and it actually worked!

[andyandy]

Ok, we've had the boobs - I'm trying to ensure this stays the Best Thread of All TimeTM.

Here's a good one - instead of an all-seeing god, we have all-seeing mobile phone networks! This is another example of privacy loss at its very worst.

Key in a mobile and track 'em down. (http://www.sat-gps-locate.com/)

I tried it with my wife's mobile and it actually worked!

hey it worked for me too! :D

[Glen.Nogami]

Regarding "Whelm," I think it ought to be an action word in comic books. "Wham!" "Pow!" "Whelm!"

[J. Arthur Hastur]

Okay, I was gone for the weekend +1, any proof yet?

[The Atheist]

Okay, I was gone for the weekend +1, any proof yet?

Yep, I had some 90% proof scotch last night and I am completely satisfied.

[J. Arthur Hastur]

Yep, I had some 90% proof scotch last night and I am completely satisfied.

God gave it to you? What a nice thing for a fictional character to do.

[Marc L]

Ok, I accept that my wishing us to be patient and allow time for AY to post his evidence may have been too magnanimous on my part. You may all feel free to heckle his failure to provide the evidence without me yelling at you. :)

Marc

[RandFan]

Yep, I had some 90% proof scotch last night and I am completely satisfied."90%? :) Whew. You got to wonder if that is even scotch. At 180 proof you are really just talking about alcohol.

Alcohol, it's Australian for scotch...mate.

Personally I'd rather huff gasoline. I had a bottle of Baccardi 151 for years. Every cocktail I made tasted too strong.

[SezMe]

I'd be more fun to heckle you for being so "magnanimous". Permission requested, sir! :)

[Lonewulf]

I learned a long time ago that I'd take a hot body with ugly face over a gorgeous face with scrawney body any day.

False dichotomy. :D

[Lonewulf]

It's been, like, what? ~2 weeks?

The evidence is astounding.

[grayman]

The anticipation nearly takes your breath away....

[Kopji]

Every once in a while I run across something that strikes me as really funny.


...and there is at least some reason to think that whether the property of being God-like is "positive" ought to depend upon whether or not there is a God-like being.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/ontological-arguments/#6

Hooyah Stanford!

[The Great Hairy One]

Alcohol, it's Australian for beer...mate.



Fixed.

Sooooo, is this proof turning up any time soon?

You know, I was posting on a.a for many years - from about 1996 to about 2003 or so. And before that, on alt.athiesm (yes, spelt that way), from about 1992ish to 2003. And in all those years, and in all those arguements with believers, not one could raise the smallest smidgen of proof for their god-delusion.

You chaps probably are not surprised by that. ;)

Cheers,
TGHO

[Marc L]

TGHO,

I for one, am incredibly astounded by that. In fact, back in my fundie days, I spent seven years presenting you stubborn atheists with undeniable proof after undeniable proof of God's reality and the Bible's infallibility. That I failed to convince a single pig-headed atheist was truly amazing.

Marc

[Tanstaafl]

I'm sorry, I've been away from this thread for a bit...

Are we overwhelmed yet?

Is this the overwhelming part?

[grayman]

You know, it's been over two thousand years since the last guy that claimed to have over-whelming evidence returned. Maybe Aging Young is just waiting his turn in line.

[Hawk one]

Ehhm, MdeC's already posted stating that AY won't be posting here, so you're sort of waiting in vain...

...Not that you weren't doing that anyway, just saying.

[Lonewulf]

Does anyone have overwhelming evidence, then? At all?

Jesus Freak? DJJ? Jesus?

[The Great Hairy One]

TGHO,

I for one, am incredibly astounded by that. In fact, back in my fundie days, I spent seven years presenting you stubborn atheists with undeniable proof after undeniable proof of God's reality and the Bible's infallibility. That I failed to convince a single pig-headed atheist was truly amazing.

Marc

Sorry to burst your bubble mate. :)

{taps foot} Still waiting for Mr Young... We should make a play about it, Waiting for Young or something.

Cheers,
TGHO

[Taffer]

The anticipation is killing me!