Yowies - Australia's Bigfoot

[athon]

I was going to point out to somebody the other day what a Yowie was, and looked up some web sites. This was the top one I came across;

http://www.yowiehunters.com/

The forum is full of people who fully believe in the elusive Yowie. There are one or two reports of recent Yowie attacks, with much discussion on the issue.

Might be interesting for a browse for those who like this sort of thing.

Athon

[athon]

http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/yowie-video/

Check out the video half way down.

It's impossible to tell if it's a hoax or if they startled something (not to say Australia has anything that looks remotely like a tall, shaggy thing). I'd lean towards the former without further evidence.

Athon

[noblecaboose]

You're still not fooling me.

Nice try.

[noblecaboose]

I say it was a bearded vagrant in an old fur coat.

[athon]

Like you'd know! You don't even believe in drop bears, or pouched chickens.

Athon

[William Parcher]

I say it was a bearded vagrant in an old fur coat.

Leg hurting bad, as he bends to pick a dog-end.
He goes down to the bog and warms his feet.

[Kilgore Trout]

http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/yowie-video/

Check out the video half way down.

It's impossible to tell if it's a hoax or if they startled something (not to say Australia has anything that looks remotely like a tall, shaggy thing). I'd lean towards the former without further evidence.

Athon

I'm curious to find out if what that thing was doing to the tree is legal in Australia. Maybe charges can be brought up and the police (or Humane Society, as applicable) can bring it in for questioning/delousing.

[athon]

I'm curious to find out if what that thing was doing to the tree is legal in Australia. Maybe charges can be brought up and the police (or Humane Society, as applicable) can bring it in for questioning/delousing.

I think the video was shot in Queensland. Therefore, it's probably not legal, but it would make the thing in the picture a Queensland politician.

Athon

[William Parcher]

Sure, I'll dig up this old thread. Back to back news stories with battling Yowie researchers.


Dog killed by Yowie (http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2009/04/21/46275_ntnews.html)

...Andrew McGinn, who has been researching Yowies in the Top End for more than a decade, said it was possible the hairy ape-type beast was responsible for the attack.

"The way the guy's dog was killed was typical of a Yowie," he said.

"I know it sounds fanciful but over the past 100 years, dogs get killed or decapitated and people report feeling watched, having goats stolen or seeing some tall hairy thing in the days beforehand."



Yowie not to blame for death (http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2009/04/22/46555_ntnews.html)

...Tim the Yowie Man, a former economist who turned his hand to Yowie research after spotting a hairy beast on a bushwalk 15 years ago, said the Yowie was not to blame.

"I'm very concerned that the Yowie is being incorrectly portrayed as an aggressive creature that is posing a danger to people's pets," he said.

"In over 150 years of Yowie reports all over Australia, I've never heard of a Yowie ripping an animal's head off.

[Alan]

I used to buy yowies. They were delicious.
http://www.skeptiseum.org/images/exh/yowies.jpg

[fromdownunder]

I had one as a pet once, but a Dingo ate my Yowie.

Norm

[Akhenaten]

Zombie Yowie thread!


This will end well.

[the_eye]

The only natural predator of the Yowie is the Drop Bear.

[Akhenaten]

I wonder who would win a fight between a Yowie and a Bunyip.

[kitakaze]

Sure, I'll dig up this old thread. Back to back news stories with battling Yowie researchers.

Dog killed by Yowie (http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2009/04/21/46275_ntnews.html)

Yowie not to blame for death (http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2009/04/22/46555_ntnews.html)

Clearly that was the work of a dinosaur.

[Alan]

Zombie dinosaurs from Jupiter.

[kitakaze]

Zombie dinosaurs from Jupiter.

Pfft! Yeah right, man. How do they walk on a gas giant? And how do they breath? Oh no, wait, they're zombies. How did they even get here, man? T Rex little arms couldn't even drive...

[Akhenaten]

Pfft! Yeah right, man. How do they walk on a gas giant? And how do they breath? Oh no, wait, they're zombies. How did they even get here, man? T Rex little arms couldn't even drive...





Well, Europa excuse for a skeptic! As far as Io, they got here by Carpo.

They Leda fairly secluded life, and that's why they've never Metis before.


Sorry about that. Gannymede me say it.

[A.A. Alfie]

http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/yowie-video/

Check out the video half way down.

It's impossible to tell if it's a hoax or if they startled something (not to say Australia has anything that looks remotely like a tall, shaggy thing). I'd lean towards the former without further evidence.

Athon

I reckon that was an Emu. Stirred to 'flight' only when the torch and the clamour of the people neared.
I am almost positive; look at the movement, the furry feathers etc.

I wonder who would win a fight between a Yowie and a Bunyip.

Depends if the ref is Nessie or Bigfoot

[Akhenaten]

I reckon that was an Emu. Stirred to 'flight' only when the torch and the clamour of the people neared.
I am almost positive; look at the movement, the furry feathers etc.





With you 100%. It must have been having a kip next to that tree when Laser Boy and friends turned up.

[A.A. Alfie]

With you 100%. It must have been having a kip next to that tree when Laser Boy and friends turned up.

Bingo!

[The Shrike]

That Katoomba video is a known hoax - wookie suited "mime:" http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=15817&st=0

[cyclonic]

I live near ormeau, south east queensland where a yowie likes jogging next to the gold coast highway during the morning rush hour!:

DATE : 98

LOCATION : Gold Coast, Pacific Hwy

TERRAIN : Heavy bush on both sides of the road.

"Women driving to work along the Pacific Highway in the early morning peak hour, noticed the traffic was slowing down ahead of her. As she crept along the road, she saw what appeared to her as a vagrant trundling along the side of the Highway.

As she approached a little closer, a terrible smell came through the car that resembled rotting eggs. The "person" looked very dirty, like he was covered in mud and looked quite distressed.

She eventually caught up with him and to her shock, it was not a man at all. It was 7' tall and exept for the face it was covered in dirty brown hair. It seemed to be hunched over as it jogged along side the motorists and from her report, it seemed to be extremely emaciated. She drove onto work, and had a very confusing and stressful day.

NOTES: This particular Yowie is known to us at the A.Y.R. and has been seen by many people in this area. Due to land development, its food resources have deminis hed dramatically, this is why it looked so thin and distressed. It is our opinion that it may have been looking for road kill as they do when they are starving. There is also a drain that can be walked under near by to get to the other side of the road, but it would be very strange for it to expose itself in such a way during daylight. Other contributing factors are there were heavy road works and alterations going on at the time which may have caused him to find a different path to what he'd normally use, which could have caused some confusion for him".

http://www.yowiehunters.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=54&Itemid=131

i have lived in this area for 17 years on a large isolated bush acerage, i have never seen or heard any animal i couldn't identify or ever met anyone who saw one either,
Its just a story made up by some fool and posted by some fool who really wants to believe they are out there.

[fromdownunder]

As she approached a little closer, a terrible smell came through the car that resembled rotting eggs. The "person" looked very dirty, like he was covered in mud and looked quite distressed.



Hey that was me just after rescuing my STOP/SLOW sign from a ditch.

Norm

[Akhenaten]

That Katoomba video is a known hoax - wookie suited "mime:" http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=15817&st=0





Hey, thanks for that!


I think Alfie and I were looking for a real-world explanation, but a hoax is always going to be an option. Your link offers very convincing evidence for a hoax, and I have no argument at all with it.


Cheers,

Dave

[Akhenaten]

I live near ormeau, south east queensland where a yowie likes jogging next to the gold coast highway during the morning rush hour!:

<cryptosnippo>

I have lived in this area for 17 years on a large isolated bush acerage, i have never seen or heard any animal i couldn't identify or ever met anyone who saw one either,





I'm glad Professor Norm was able to clear up the source of that sighting.

You lucky bugger! An acreage at Ormeau would be grouse. I lived for many years in the giddy heights of Toowoomba and the only decent length of time I spent in your area was at Kanungra, a nice place to visit but the Land Warfare Centre is to be avoided.

Mount Tamborine woud be a terrific setting for Yowie stories too.


Its just a story made up by some fool and posted by some fool who really wants to believe they are out there.





Well yeah, but where's the fun in owning up straight away?

[athon]

Zombie Yowie thread!


This will end well.

Wow, this takes me back. This was when Noblecaboose was still living in the US and our entire relationship was a one night stand in Vegas and some online flirting.

*sorry about the derail. If it helps, our son looks vaguely like a tiny yowie*

Athon

[Akhenaten]

Derail? I don't see how.

Cheers to you and your family in the silly season.

[Ausmerican]

Well, Europa excuse for a skeptic! As far as Io, they got here by Carpo.

They Leda fairly secluded life, and that's why they've never Metis before.


Sorry about that. Gannymede me say it.

Austen Tayshus you aint.

[DogB]

Mount Tamborine woud be a terrific setting for Yowie stories too.

This was the site of my only encounter.

I was on the Witches Falls (http://national.atdw.com.au/multimedia/tq/tamborinenationalpark.jpg) track down the bottom in the palm grove (http://www.totaltravel.com/images/photos/85240/254478.jpg). I started hearing rhythmic crunching noises like something big trying to walk very slowly and quietly through the leaf litter. I’m not ashamed to say that for a little while it was a bit scary - then the logrunner came in to view.

The logrunner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Logrunner) is a bird about the size of your hand which spends most of its time on the forest floor searching through the leaf litter. As it walks it flicks each foot sideways to scatter the litter and that was what I was hearing. I’ve spent a lot of time in the rainforest and I seen a lot of logrunners, but the palm grove is a little unusual and the litter ‘sounds’ different. That’s all it took for my imagination to get the better of me.

For about 4 seconds I believed in the yowie.;)

[William Parcher]

For about 4 seconds I believed in the yowie.;)

Lucky you. This guy does so forever...


Result Of A Yowie Attack (http://www.themorningstarr.co.uk/2009/06/01/result-of-a-yowie-attack/)

Yowie hunter Dean Harrison hit the headlines last week when The Australian reported the story of him being "rugby tackled" by Australia's Bigfoot, the Yowie. Dean was tracking Yowies in Gympie, just outside Queensland when a startled Yowie knocked him on his arse!

Yowie Owie

[DogB]

On a scale of 1 to 10 of images I didn't need to see - this one rates approx 349,246,892.

[cyclonic]

I'm glad Professor Norm was able to clear up the source of that sighting.

You lucky bugger! An acreage at Ormeau would be grouse. I lived for many years in the giddy heights of Toowoomba and the only decent length of time I spent in your area was at Kanungra, a nice place to visit but the Land Warfare Centre is to be avoided.

Mount Tamborine woud be a terrific setting for Yowie stories too.


Springbrook and the border ranges just across the queensland border, the original 'big scrub', are my favourite areas.

[Akhenaten]

You'd know the history of the Stinson crash then? I wonder if Yowies had anything to do with that.

Yowies are known to eat Lamingtons, BTW.

[A.A. Alfie]

You'd know the history of the Stinson crash then? I wonder if Yowies had anything to do with that.

Yowies are known to eat Lamingtons, BTW.

It's a well known fact that the Stinson crash was caused when the pilot dropped his craft to 'stock herding height' of 30 metres or so, and clipped an above average height dinosaur.:rolleyes:

[Night Walker]

There have been 6 yowie stories published in the Australian media so far in 2009. I am currently unable to post any links but feel free to google them yourselves and post your comments:

Australia: Bigfoot spotted in bush near Sydney (15 April 2009)

This Yowie looks suspect (April 17, 2009)

Dog killed by Yowie (April 21st, 2009)

I was rugby-tackled by a Yowie, man claims (May 26, 2009)

Yowie sighting near Mount George (Aug 07, 2009)

Yowie sighting sparks continuing controversy (10th September, 2009)

[philkensebben]

Does anyone else think that Dean Harrisons comment in his sig, is the most convovluted pile of waffle and reeks of someone desperately wanting to give off an air of sophisticated intelligence?

'The closure of people's minds, understandings and boundaries are subject to either current environmental pressures brewed by ignorance or insecurities sculptured by pre-environmental education whereby they know no better - Dean Harrison'

Might just be me, but i find this hilarious

[lionking]

There have been 6 yowie stories published in the Australian media so far in 2009. I am currently unable to post any links but feel free to google them yourselves and post your comments:

Australia: Bigfoot spotted in bush near Sydney (15 April 2009)

This Yowie looks suspect (April 17, 2009)

Dog killed by Yowie (April 21st, 2009)

I was rugby-tackled by a Yowie, man claims (May 26, 2009)

Yowie sighting near Mount George (Aug 07, 2009)

Yowie sighting sparks continuing controversy (10th September, 2009)

Hi Night Walker. Do you believe these reports have any validity?

[Akhenaten]

There have been 6 yowie stories published in the Australian media so far in 2009. I am currently unable to post any links but feel free to google them yourselves and post your comments:

Australia: Bigfoot spotted in bush near Sydney (15 April 2009)





All of the links on the first page of Google are to cryptonut sites except for the fifth one, which leads here, and the last one which leads to the previously debunked Laser Boy encounter at Katoomba.


This Yowie looks suspect (April 17, 2009)





Top entry for that one appears to be a post in another forum by a poster named "Night Walker"

Second top hit is this thread.


Dog killed by Yowie (April 21st, 2009)





NT News (http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2009/04/21/46275_ntnews.html)

Piss-pulling at it's finest.


I was rugby-tackled by a Yowie, man claims (May 26, 2009)





I'm not even going to bother.


Yowie sighting near Mount George (Aug 07, 2009)





Manning River Times (http://www.manningrivertimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/yowie-sighting-near-mount-george/1589771.aspx)

Dark night. Two hysterical women.


Yowie sighting sparks continuing controversy (10th September, 2009)





No, there is no controversy.

[Akhenaten]

Austen Tayshus you aint.





You have fine taste, my friend, as well as being correct.

To be fair though, he isn't restricted to working with the moons of Jupiter.


:)

[The Fool]

I was rugby-tackled by a Yowie, man claims (May 26, 2009)


we need to put a lot more resources into capturing this beast. The wallabies are looking for a couple of good loose forwards.

[Akhenaten]

.



http://www.yvonneclaireadams.com/HostedStuff/Yowie2.jpg

[A.A. Alfie]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Looks a typical league player to me.




Here's a possible supporter

http://forums.randi.org/picture.php?albumid=346&pictureid=2067

[gtc]

I live near ormeau, south east queensland where a yowie likes jogging next to the gold coast highway during the morning rush hour!:



Back in the mid-80s my grandparents lived in Worongary. I remember not being able to sleep after scaring myself silly reading about the Yowies supposedly living in the bush around the Hinterland.

Its amazing that the stories keep circulating.

[Akhenaten]

In a brief fit of serious, do we seem to be narrowing the origins of Yowie stories down to SE Queensland and the Border Ranges?

I never heard of them as a kid in Sydney. Bunyips and drop-bears were all you had to worry about down there.

[foxholeatheist]

we need to put a lot more resources into capturing this beast. The wallabies are looking for a couple of good loose forwards.

For years I thought the John Williams song "Number on my Back" was about actual wallabies. Having no interest in or knowledge of sweaty men touching each other (sports) it took a chick from Perth I was trying to impress to point it out to me.

The fauna of Australia is interesting enough without imaginary hairy giants running around.

[Night Walker]

Hi Night Walker. Do you believe these reports have any validity?

Australia: Bigfoot spotted in bush near Sydney (15 April 2009) - a case of misidentification at best. Little information presented in the article makes you wonder why they bothered to run the story in the first place. Attempts to contact the witnesses have been unsuccessful. Could be a case of tourists having a laugh via a local Aussie legend.

This Yowie looks suspect (April 17, 2009) - a prank that someone took seriusly enough to report it to the local newspaper. Photo circulated was from a U.S. hoax.

Dog killed by Yowie (April 21st, 2009) - typical yowie speculation debunked by Tim the Yowieman.

I was rugby-tackled by a Yowie, man claims (May 26, 2009) - a hoax pulled off by a leading "yowie researcher". Multiple irregularities including injuries that do not match the witness' account of events (and photos of injuries most likely to have been taken a week before the alleged incident) and a footprint cast and presented as evidence is a match with the witness' own foot.

Yowie sighting near Mount George (Aug 07, 2009) - possibly authentic but contains some suspicious elements and is in need of further investigation. Report by Gilroy is full of speculation. Report by Healy & Cropper contains witnesses' illustrations but simply rehashes the newspaper articles.

Yowie sighting sparks continuing controversy (10th September, 2009) - a prank pulled on the school children. Sounds like a fun night though.

A typical argument used in "yowie research" circles is that there are simply too many reported sightings to ignore and that it would take a large coordinated conspiracy of hoaxers going back 2 hundred years to perpetrate. The examples of 2009 indicate many unconnected people hoaxed/pranked yowie encounters primarily because it is fun to do so. Such "encounters" spread and grow via word-of-mouth and take on a life of their own.

Anyone can fabricate a yowie encounter. Repeat it often enough - a feat assisted by the internet - and it becomes part of the Yowielore.

The Australian bush can provide a suitably ambiguous experience (especially at night) as the backdrop for scaring your mates after heightening the tension with a few dramatic campfire tales of the unknown. However, there does also seem to be a loosely connected network of yowie-hoaxers masquerading as "researchers".

It is largely a tangled web of deception.

[gtc]

In a brief fit of serious, do we seem to be narrowing the origins of Yowie stories down to SE Queensland and the Border Ranges?

I'm not sure. As far as I can tell, the idea that the Yowie is some sort of Sasquatch seems to come from the Rex Gilroy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yowie) in the 1970s. The only other people who seem to be pushing this idea are the Yowie Hunters (http://www.yowiehunters.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage).

Before then it seems the Yowie was just a type of Bunyip.

It sounds like people have merged the Sasquatch and Bunyip myths. This seems a shame to me.


I never heard of them as a kid in Sydney. Bunyips and drop-bears were all you had to worry about down there.

We had hoop snakes in SE Qld as well.

[fromdownunder]

I'm not sure. As far as I can tell, the idea that the Yowie is some sort of Sasquatch seems to come from the Rex Gilroy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yowie) in the 1970s. The only other people who seem to be pushing this idea are the Yowie Hunters (http://www.yowiehunters.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage).



The same Rex Gilroy who found evidence for Dinosaurs in Australia, in fact. Did he want to become the new Ivan T Sanderson when he grew up (not that he ever did)?

Norm

Norm

[Marduk]

The same Rex Gilroy who found evidence for Dinosaurs in Australia, in fact. Did he want to become the new Ivan T Sanderson when he grew up (not that he ever did)?

Norm

Norm

yes that one, the non thinking mans Arthur C clarke
:D

[cyclonic]

In a brief fit of serious, do we seem to be narrowing the origins of Yowie stories down to SE Queensland and the Border Ranges?

I never heard of them as a kid in Sydney. Bunyips and drop-bears were all you had to worry about down there.

Springbrook is where they are if they were real, i love how they move sideways like a crab.

http://www.yowiehunters.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=58&Itemid=131

2o high school students couldn't be wrong could they?
they wouldn't say it just to impress the girls?

http://www.yowiehunters.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1185&Itemid=131


Why don't they deploy giant crab pots to catch it?

[Akhenaten]

:)


Yabbie pots?

[cyclonic]

:)


Yabbie pots?

Nah, too small.


Proof truckdrivers don't take drugs!

"also witnessed one of these animals taking a roo from the back of a truck he was following .mind u the truck was doing 100kph at the time and it had just run over the roo which was being spat out the back of the rig and he says it came from one side of the road to the other and took the roo with it.. very strange"

lol!

http://www.yowiehunters.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=260&Itemid=132

[A.A. Alfie]

Nah, too small.


Proof truckdrivers don't take drugs!

"also witnessed one of these animals taking a roo from the back of a truck he was following .mind u the truck was doing 100kph at the time and it had just run over the roo which was being spat out the back of the rig and he says it came from one side of the road to the other and took the roo with it.. very strange"

lol!

http://www.yowiehunters.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=260&Itemid=132

"...it looked like it was covered in shaggy carpert."

Yowie researchers dont have spell check?!

[cyclonic]

Now for the clear winner of aussie yowie stories.
Date: Mid to Late 1970's

Location: Unknown (of course it is)

Terrain: Bushland

This report has been passed word of mouth by several people, and may not be completely accurate in all aspects. The guide involved in the story told it to my father, and then he told me, when he felt I was old enough to understand.

There was a Canadian tour party, who had read articles about the Yowie, and came to Australia, fully equipped to bag/shoot one. There were four people in the party, and they shopped around for a guide, asking about Yowie sightings. Eventually they found a guide, who agreed to take them to an area known for Yowie activity.

They took five horses in a truck and float, and drove as far as they could by vehicle, then saddled up the horses, and carried on horseback further into the bush. They stopped at an area of previous sightings, and decided it would be a good area to set up camp. There were snapped off saplings in the bush around the area.

One of the horses was spooked by something, and reared up. It must have lost it's footing and it rolled over on top of the rider, and broke his leg. They were all feeling uncomfortable. They set up the tent, and placed the injured man inside a sleeping bag to keep him warm, and to avoid too much shock setting in. They built a fire, and had plenty of firewood to keep the fire burning.

The guide said he would go out to get help for the wounded man. The other tourists, still feeling uneasy, decided to go with the guide, as they were not comfortable staying there. They left the injured man, with food, and a 306 rifle with 5 rounds of ammunition. It was close to sundown when the party left the sight.

The next day, they came back by rescue helicopter, to lift the injured man off to hospital. When they landed, they met a gruesome scene. The man was dead, his arm had been ripped off, and his head was beaten in. There was blood all around the tent. The rifle was smashed and the butt broken. There were five spent cartridges. The fire was kicked everywhere. At the edge of the clearing there was also evidence of blood.

The helicopter pilot radioed for the police, and the State Police arrived shortly after, also by helicopter. The area where the incident occurred, was actually under Federal jurisdiction, so the State Police could do nothing, they just secured the site until the Federal Police arrived.

They took samples of the blood at the edge of the clearing. The body was placed in a body bag, and the rest of the party, were taken into custody. All their belongings were confiscated. They were escorted to the airport, where they were told, that they would never be able to come back to Australia. They were told that there had been a shooting accident, and that they should not discuss any of the details with anyone. The body was enclosed in a lead-lined coffin, and sent back to Canada on the same plane


LMAO!
can you even begin to imagine abandoning a wounded friend in the bush?

if it were me, i would have shot those cowards! wouldn't you?

"The man was dead, his arm had been ripped off, and his head was beaten in"
used his arm to beat his head in?

"The fire was kicked everywhere" wow, a firefighting yowie!

"The body was enclosed in a lead-lined coffin, and sent back to Canada on the same plane"

Sure, commercial jets always carry LEAD-LINED COFFINS!

http://www.yowiehunters.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=255&Itemid=132


Yowiehunters.com must do their research in pubs they havn't been barred from yet.

[fromdownunder]

Now for the clear winner of aussie yowie stories.

The man was dead, his arm had been ripped off...

That wasn't a Yowie. That was Auntie Jack.

Norm

[A.A. Alfie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs9ma5oHVbE

[Night Walker]

There are few reliable sources of information regarding the yowie. Rex Gilroy has published several books but... well, you know about Rex. Healy and Cropper's (2006) "The Yowie: In Search of Australia's Bigfoot" is generally well regarded - they, too, criticise Gilroy's approach yet most of the sightings in their book come from YowieHunters.

Take a look at the "Dean Vs Yowie" and "Dean Yowie Confrontation" threads on their forum and let me know what you think...

[A.A. Alfie]

Sorry NW

The Yowie is a myth.
A bigger myth than Bigfoot or the Yeti or a Frankston Virgin.

I wont be wasting my time checking out the wool gatherings of a bunch of whackjobs.

No offense.

[Akhenaten]

I'm with Professor Alfie 100% on this.

Yowies have been a prank to play on children and other gullible souls since long before any of us were born, and hopefully will continue to be just that for many years to come.

In fact, I do what I can to spread the joke myself, from time to time.

There could not possibly be any such thing as Yowie Research. Just as there's no such thing as Godzilla or Pokemon research.

I don't think I want to read anything written by folks who can't see that simple truth.

[A.A. Alfie]

I'm with Professor Alfie 100% on this.

Professor!
(he exclaims with pride and surprise) as he begins buffing his nails on his lapel.
:D

[Sideroxylon]

There are few reliable sources of information regarding the yowie. Rex Gilroy has published several books but... well, you know about Rex. Healy and Cropper's (2006) "The Yowie: In Search of Australia's Bigfoot" is generally well regarded - they, too, criticise Gilroy's approach yet most of the sightings in their book come from YowieHunters.

Take a look at the "Dean Vs Yowie" and "Dean Yowie Confrontation" threads on their forum and let me know what you think...

I'm reading through a thread called “Hatred of Sceptics” discussing the ban of a sceptic in the “Dean’s” thread. Interesting, someone even thinks that poster was Randi himself.

http://www.yowiehunters.net/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=1492

The existence of Yowies seems unjustified and absurd to me too but that fact that some people firmly believe in their existence makes it interesting to me. It’s also why I keep coming back to JREF. I enjoy trying to understand how people justify their beliefs in the face of contrary evidence and/or a lack of supporting evidence.

[Akhenaten]

Professor!
(he exclaims with pride and surprise) as he begins buffing his nails on his lapel.
:D





DBS - School of Hard Knocks, University of Upper Tumbucatta West

[A.A. Alfie]

PhBS School of Hard Knocks, University of Upper Tumbucatta West

With a masters in public nuisance.
Elite company indeed.:)

[gtc]

Just as there's no such thing as Godzilla or Pokemon research.

I take your point but if you google serebii or pokemon marriland you will find more than you ever needed to know about pokemon research.

[Cainkane1]

I was going to point out to somebody the other day what a Yowie was, and looked up some web sites. This was the top one I came across;

http://www.yowiehunters.com/

The forum is full of people who fully believe in the elusive Yowie. There are one or two reports of recent Yowie attacks, with much discussion on the issue.

Might be interesting for a browse for those who like this sort of thing.

Athon
People from the old world brought their beliefs and superstitions with them. Hence bigfoot, hence yowie. The American Indian version of so called Sasquatch is much different than the european ancestried Americans. Its my guess that if you sat down and discussed the Yowie with an aborigine and then a european youd get two very different versions of of the same mythical creature.

I read somewhere that Bigfoot stared out as a legend of the Indians who told their children of a cannabilistic tribe of hugh Indians who lived near Mt. St. Helens in an effort to keep them away from the mountian.

[Akhenaten]

I take your point but if you google serebii or pokemon marriland you will find more than you ever needed to know about pokemon research.





Pokemon research makes me go all misty-eyed.


;)

[Night Walker]

Sorry NW

The Yowie is a myth.
A bigger myth than Bigfoot or the Yeti or a Frankston Virgin.

I wont be wasting my time checking out the wool gatherings of a bunch of whackjobs.

No offense.

I understand completely.

Personally, I am interested in the topic yet it is evident that many, if not most, yowie reports are bogus. Frankly, there is far more in need of debunking than needs researching and some "researchers" are the main culprits. If interested, take a look at the footprint cast presented as evidence in support of the "yowie attack" in those threads I mentioned - the impression of the toes matches that of the person who conveniently found them.

It seems in order to understand the yowie phenomenon one needs to understand those who supposedly search for them - they are quite an assortment of characters.

If anyone here is genuinely interested in the topic of yowies without dismissing all sightings out of hand then I would appreciate some unbiased input on the recent Mt. George sighting (google it for further information). This seems to be the best yowie sighting (ie possibly authentic, not an obvious hoax) reported via the media in 2009.

Q. Which would be more reliable - yowie sightings reported via the media or via "yowie researchers"? If you saw something out of the ordinary in the bush what would you do?

[A.A. Alfie]

Q. Which would be more reliable - yowie sightings reported via the media or via "yowie researchers"? If you saw something out of the ordinary in the bush what would you do?

When I do see something unusual in the bush. I do what I've aslways done: Speak to the locals, check out literature (e.g. what bird is that), the internet etc on the local fauna.
In the end I find out what the most logical explanation is, not the most illogical.

[fromdownunder]

If anyone here is genuinely interested in the topic of yowies without dismissing all sightings out of hand then I would appreciate some unbiased input on the recent Mt. George sighting (google it for further information). This seems to be the best yowie sighting (ie possibly authentic, not an obvious hoax) reported via the media in 2009.


http://www.manningrivertimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/yowie-sighting-near-mount-george/1589771.aspx

This sighting was on 7 August 2009.

If I was a cynic, I would note that on the same day, there was an announcement from the same source, that Rex Gilroy was visitng the area in the next few weeks

If I was a cynic I would then google "Faye Gilroy" + Yowie, and note that she sells Yowie sketches over the internet,m and has had at least one there which dates back to 2008 (whether or not she sketched it prior to August 2009 is not known). Since you appear to know Faye (are tou "Greg"?), could you asceretain whether or not she started skething Yowies before or after her close encounter?

http://apegallery.angelfire.com/hairy_hominids/index.album/yowie-by-faye-burke?i=30&s=

[cyclonic]

If yowies were real plenty of them would have been shot by now.
remember the pre-1970s bush motto?

IF IT MOVES SHOOT IT! IF IT DOESNT CHOP IT DOWN!


And don't give me that "i couldn't shoot it because it looked human" bulldust either.

[Night Walker]

This sighting was on 7 August 2009.

If I was a cynic, I would note that on the same day, there was an announcement from the same source, that Rex Gilroy was visitng the area in the next few weeks

If I was a cynic I would then google "Faye Gilroy" + Yowie, and note that she sells Yowie sketches over the internet,m and has had at least one there which dates back to 2008 (whether or not she sketched it prior to August 2009 is not known). Since you appear to know Faye (are tou "Greg"?), could you asceretain whether or not she started skething Yowies before or after her close encounter?



The sighting happened July 31. The paper reported it on August 7 along with Rex's impending visit to investigate. Nothing suss there.

The images seem to be a collection of witness sketches from Australia and the USA. How can you tell who is selling them? I am a bit of a technophobe in things like this...

Faye's sketch was collected by Healy & Cropper as part of their interview with her. I could only find the one sketch by Faye.

I am not Greg but I have corresponded with him previously.

[tsig]

With a masters in public nuisance.
Elite company indeed.:)

To say nothing about being a God-Pharaoh.

[tsig]

If yowies were real plenty of them would have been shot by now.
remember the pre-1970s bush motto?

IF IT MOVES SHOOT IT! IF IT DOESNT CHOP IT DOWN!


And don't give me that "i couldn't shoot it because it looked human" bulldust either.

If that worked there would be a lot less murders.

[A.A. Alfie]

To say nothing about being a God-Pharaoh.

Akenhaten is the God Pharoa, I am but a humble servant to the master

[Lucian]

Akenhaten is the God Pharoa, I am but a humble servant to the master

As are we all. For someone who's been dead that long, he's awfully good with Photoshop, isn't he? This proves his divinity.

[Akhenaten]

People from the old world brought their beliefs and superstitions with them. Hence bigfoot, hence yowie. The American Indian version of so called Sasquatch is much different than the european ancestried Americans. Its my guess that if you sat down and discussed the Yowie with an aborigine and then a european youd get two very different versions of of the same mythical creature.





I agree with you in general about folks bringing their favourite superstitions with them from the Old Country, but the Yowie is something else again, and seems to be more typical of home-grown Aussie BS than anything.

You can't discuss Yowie legends with Native Australians any better than you can with Professors Norm and Alfie, because it's not a native legend at all. They'll make as much of a joke about it as we're doing in this thread.

Another consideration is that modern Australia was founded and populated by Britain, and England, particularly the Home Counties, isn't exactly rife with Yowie traditions.


I read somewhere that Bigfoot stared out as a legend of the Indians who told their children of a cannabilistic tribe of hugh Indians who lived near Mt. St. Helens in an effort to keep them away from the mountian.





I'd go along with a story like that for Yowies, only it was started by the white settlers and not by the original inhabitants.

[Akhenaten]

I understand completely.

Personally, I am interested in the topic yet it is evident that many, if not most, yowie reports are bogus. Frankly, there is far more in need of debunking than needs researching and some "researchers" are the main culprits. If interested, take a look at the footprint cast presented as evidence in support of the "yowie attack" in those threads I mentioned - the impression of the toes matches that of the person who conveniently found them.

It seems in order to understand the yowie phenomenon one needs to understand those who supposedly search for them - they are quite an assortment of characters.





I hope I'm starting to see where you're coming from with this.

You seem to have an interest in researching the 'researchers', and that's quite a legitimate thing to do. I'm sure it's pretty much what William, Kitz and the others do in the BF threads.

They're an odd bunch alright, and you're going to have to try and forgive us BS professors for pointing at them and laughing.



If anyone here is genuinely interested in the topic of yowies without dismissing all sightings out of hand then I would appreciate some unbiased input on the recent Mt. George sighting (google it for further information). This seems to be the best yowie sighting (ie possibly authentic, not an obvious hoax) reported via the media in 2009.





I'll look into that story further, but since I'm an unaccredited sceptic, I can get away with already having an answer. Sorry.


Q. Which would be more reliable - yowie sightings reported via the media or via "yowie researchers"?





I don't see any difference. The stories themselves have no credibility, so the sources are irrelevant.


If you saw something out of the ordinary in the bush what would you do?





Fight or flee. I usually decide these things on the spot.

Nicole Kidman swimming naked in a billabong would be out of the ordinary, as would a T. rex, but I think different approaches would be called for.

[cyclonic]

If that worked there would be a lot less murders.

It did work there were a lot less murders back then, unfortunately 'the big scrub' rainforest in northern new south wales was reduced from 75000 hectares to a measly 700 hectares by land hungry settelers.
and guess what? no yowies were shot or captured, ever......

[Akhenaten]

When I do see something unusual in the bush. I do what I've always done: Speak to the locals, check out literature (e.g. what bird is that), the internet etc on the local fauna.
In the end I find out what the most logical explanation is, not the most illogical.





Oh. A sensible, professorial answer!

Yeah, I'd much do the same. I'm insatiably curious, and love learning about little-known local stuff.

I took NW's question to refer to something big and horrible leaping out from behind a tree at you, which doesn't usually call for a full appreciation before taking the appropriate havingsex big steps in the direction of off.

[Akhenaten]

http://www.manningrivertimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/yowie-sighting-near-mount-george/1589771.aspx

This sighting was on 7 August 2009.

If I was a cynic, I would note that on the same day, there was an announcement from the same source, that Rex Gilroy was visitng the area in the next few weeks

If I was a cynic I would then google "Faye Gilroy" + Yowie, and note that she sells Yowie sketches over the internet,m and has had at least one there which dates back to 2008 (whether or not she sketched it prior to August 2009 is not known). Since you appear to know Faye (are tou "Greg"?), could you asceretain whether or not she started skething Yowies before or after her close encounter?

http://apegallery.angelfire.com/hairy_hominids/index.album/yowie-by-faye-burke?i=30&s=





Kewl. That's my research done! I'd already looked ½ way into the story, and your bits confirm my suspicions.



The sighting happened July 31. The paper reported it on August 7 along with Rex's impending visit to investigate.
Nothing suss there.





O rly?


The images seem to be a collection of witness sketches from Australia and the USA. How can you tell who is selling them? I am a bit of a technophobe in things like this...





There are no Yowies. There are no witnesses. People selling pictures of them are lying.


No technology involved.



Faye's sketch was collected by Healy & Cropper as part of their interview with her. I could only find the one sketch by Faye.





Would you like me to draw some more?



I am not Greg but I have corresponded with him previously.





I'll bet HE has a different POV.

[A.A. Alfie]

Oh. A sensible, professorial answer!

Yeah, I'd much do the same. I'm insatiably curious, and love learning about little-known local stuff.

I took NW's question to refer to something big and horrible leaping out from behind a tree at you, which doesn't usually call for a full appreciation before taking the appropriate havingsex big steps in the direction of off.

I was in Halls Gap last New Year having a holiday with the family.
We were staying about 10km out of town on a private track off the road to Pomonal.

We are on the road home after dinner one night, and an animal about 5 to 6 foot tall comes flying out of the scrub on my left and running out in front of my 4wd.
I managed to break sufficiently quickly to avoid running the animal down and injuring it or my family in the car with me.

When I first saw this thing (in the blink of an eye) a few possibilities as to what it was ran through my head, as I breaked sufficiently whilst retaining my line and control of the vehicle.

A roo? - nah, too big for around here.
An emu? - no, no beak and the head's too big
Feral pig?- nah, too graceful
A man? - no, it's got 4 legs!
A woman? - nah - it's got no ti .. er, no the head's too big.
A rabbit ? - Big rabbit!
Wombat? - don't be daft Alfie, wombats dont have antlers.

Antlers!?! What the...

Anyway, the car was filled with much excitement.
Our eldest (17 and on his 'P' plates) and my wife were very impressed with my driving skills and lightning reflexes.
The daughter (15) was worried that we had frightened the poor thing.
And the other two boys (13 and 11) were disappointed in missing out on a fresh kill.

It turns out naturally enough that there are any number of wild deer in the area and we had happened upon a large buck.
I knew of a few deer farms in the area but had no clue of the large feral population.
As mentioned in a previous post of mine, I checked around with the locals the next day anyway - just to get the story proper.

Now, any er.. novice (or family of novices), who might have happened upon that large beast in the scrub - in the middle of the night - with no bush skills - nor understanding of local conditions - or fauna - and with less of a look than we got, may easily have been fooled into thinking they had sighted a Yowie.
All six of them would have concluded the same thing - the power of suggestion and the phenomenon of group think being what they are, after the youngest mentioned the possibility. He had them in his mind after he bought a Yowie chocolate bar earlier that day in the local general store and read about the mythical creature on the wrapper.

No doubt, should our novices have called at the local pub with stories of large beasts in the bush, the locals would have had a blast! "X-mas early!" they would think rubbing their collective hands together in inward excitement. They would then have no end of fun at the expense of the unwitting witnesses of yet another run-of-the-mill event in country Australia.

Yowies
If you haven't got a dead one and eaten it yet, they aint real.

[Akhenaten]

I was in Halls Gap last New Year having a holiday with the family.
We were staying about 10km out of town on a private track off the road to Pomonal.

We are on the road home after dinner one night, and an animal about 5 to 6 foot tall comes flying out of the scrub on my left and running out in front of my 4wd.





This is where I got to when I said "It's a deer." There's at least trillions of them up here.

;)


Your story illustrates the point about unexpected things happening very well though.

My scariest non-event was when I was sitting in a hole in the ground in Western Queensland playing soldiers and I knew for sure that there wasn't a critter for miles, and yet something was crawling towards me in the starlight.

It jumped in the hole and I jumped out and my mate said "It's a frakkin' cane toad, ya moron!"


I knew that, I was just trickin'.

[A.A. Alfie]

This is where I got to when I said "It's a deer." There's at least trillions of them up here.

;)


Your story illustrates the point about unexpected things happening very well though.

My scariest non-event was when I was sitting in a hole in the ground in Western Queensland playing soldiers and I knew for sure that there wasn't a critter for miles, and yet something was crawling towards me in the starlight.

It jumped in the hole and I jumped out and my mate said "It's a frakkin' cane toad, ya moron!"


I knew that, I was just trickin'.

Brave aincha?

[Akhenaten]

You should have seen us when we saw the Min Min light on another trip. There were ten or so big hairy blokes, with guns and stuff, and not one of us was going to go and see what it was.

We jumped back in the trucks after our smoko and never really thought about it again, until times like this.

Goodness knows what it was, but as is sometimes said, Discretion is the better part of Valour.

Similar to the Arthurian practice known as "Run Away!"

[A.A. Alfie]

You should have seen us when we saw the Min Min light on another trip. There were ten or so big hairy blokes, with guns and stuff, and not one of us was going to go and see what it was.

We jumped back in the trucks after our smoko and never really thought about it again, until times like this.

Goodness knows what it was, but as is sometimes said, Discretion is the better part of Valour.

Similar to the Arthurian practice known as "Run Away!"

Luminous Yowies scaring the luminaries?

[Drewbot]

At the end of The Sound of Music, you can see a Yowiie, on the next hill over, when the Von Trapps are getting ready to cross into Switzerland.

[Akhenaten]

So, there's evidence of Yowies in Austria, not Australia. That could explain why we've been having trouble.


Can we start again please?

[Sideroxylon]

So, there's evidence of Yowies in Austria, not Australia. That could explain why we've been having trouble.


Can we start again please?

Perhaps that's where the dinosaurs were too - it would explain a lot.

[Akhenaten]

This sceptical thinking is really great.

I believe we need a new thread (probably in Community) titled Evidence for Dinosaurs, Yowies, Blimps, Bigfoot, UFOs and Why the New Testament Writers Told the Truth in Austria.

I'm sure much would be revealed, although I doubt any of it would be useful.

[A.A. Alfie]

Australia and Austria were one, once upon a time?:D:rolleyes:

http://forums.randi.org/picture.php?albumid=349&pictureid=2109

[Night Walker]

Originally Posted by Night Walker
The sighting happened July 31. The paper reported it on August 7 along with Rex's impending visit to investigate.
Nothing suss there.


O rly?



Sorry, I don't understand the point you are trying to make.

The alleged sighting occurred 7 days before the newspaper article. Although I am sceptical about Rex's "yowie research" he does have an ear to the ground for these things and was quick off the mark to make contact with the alleged witnesses well before the newspaper article.

Could you explain what is suspicious about the newspaper reporting the alleged yowie sighting along with Rex's impending visit to investigate?

[Akhenaten]

Originally Posted by Night Walker
The sighting happened July 31. The paper reported it on August 7 along with Rex's impending visit to investigate.
Nothing suss there.


O rly?





Sorry, I don't understand the point you are trying to make.

The alleged sighting occurred 7 days before the newspaper article. Although I am sceptical about Rex's "yowie research" he does have an ear to the ground for these things and was quick off the mark to make contact with the alleged witnesses well before the newspaper article.

Could you explain what is suspicious about the newspaper reporting the alleged yowie sighting along with Rex's impending visit to investigate?





Well, I might point out that it's suss from the outset. It's a Yowie story, for goodness sake.

Specific things what seem suss:


1. Why did it take a week to report this story anyway? This is terrifying stuff and the public needs to be warned!

By a short, belated article in the Manning River Times. Sure.

Seems to me the story wouldn't have run at all if Gilroy hadn't urged them to publish it.


2. Gilroy might have his ear to the ground, but how did he know about this story before the report was published? How could he possibly know about the hallucinations of two silly women in Wauchope, unless he was also a miraculous bystander at Big W, Taree, the day after it happened?

Like the other lady, who has also seen a Yowie.


3. The article itself is suss. Look at the photograph that accompanies it, and relate these statements to it:



http://www.yvonneclaireadams.com/HostedStuff/YowieSighting.jpg


"I looked back up at the road and I saw ahead in the headlights this big hairy animal thing on the side of the winding road."
Except that it's not a winding road.



"It was about eight foot tall and four foot wide."
And moves through dense forest without leaving a trail of destruction and hasn't discovered the metric system yet.



"Alana said they yelled out 'holy hell' along with a list of other unmentionable words. 'We panicked,' they said."
THIS bit, I can believe.



"'I couldn't turn the car around because I had the trailer and the road was too narrow', Faye said."
Look at the photo. You could do a uey in a 747 on that road.

Although why anyone would think that stopping and doing a U-turn would be the best IA is a mystery to me.



"I was [redacted)-scared and thought I better not mess with this thing in case it lifts the trailer up and tips us over the bank edge."
What edge? And why would you think such a thing anyway? Experience?



And finally the humdinger . . .

"Keeping her foot on the accelerator and speeding past the thing, Faye said she turned to Alana and said: 'Did you see that?' She said in a scared voice: 'Do you mean that thing that looked like a Big Foot?' I said: No it was a Yowie."
That's absolute rubbish. Every word of it.


I'm sure there's more sussness, but that's about where I lost interest, sorry.

[lionking]

Night Walker, you must realise that most, if not all of us here would be delighted in the existance of the Yowie. We don't take this skeptical position to piss people off. We just want evidence, and also possibly have a better refined BS detector than many.

[Akhenaten]

Night Walker, you must realise that most, if not all of us here would be delighted in the existance of the Yowie. We don't take this skeptical position to piss people off. We just want evidence, and also possibly have a better refined BS detector than many.





This is something I've often noticed about some bleevers (not Night Walker).

They seem to think that skeptics are 'anti' things, but I'd have no more objection to the discovery of a real yowie-like creature than I would to the discovery of a new type of Bandicoot. It would be science, wouldn't it?

Yowies, on the other hand, aren't in contention for discovery. They're a bloody made-up joke pretend urban legend thingy.

I might say that bleevers make it all worthwhile though. ;)

[Night Walker]

Night Walker, you must realise that most, if not all of us here would be delighted in the existance of the Yowie. We don't take this skeptical position to piss people off. We just want evidence, and also possibly have a better refined BS detector than many.

Yeah, I know. I want evidence too but I have to acknowledge there is none.

I am dying for a yowie sighting in my area (Gold Coast - Gympie) to investigate but the only recent ones need debunking not investigation. The one quoted under "Kilcoy" in Wikipedia was a practical joke on some poor fellow who will undoubtedly continue to get random phone calls from yowie researchers and the Gympie "yowie attack" is a hoax by a prominent "researcher". It is difficult to find credible sources of information.

I appreciate your skepticism and value your input, forum readers. I am still a few posts away from being able to provide direct links so, continuing with the Mt George sighting, I would appreciate your opinions on Rex Gilroy's report on it and the "evidence" within (should be within his Mysterious Australia site).

[Akhenaten]

Yeah, I know. I want evidence too but I have to acknowledge there is none.

I am dying for a yowie sighting in my area (Gold Coast - Gympie) to investigate but the only recent ones need debunking not investigation. The one quoted under "Kilcoy" in Wikipedia was a practical joke on some poor fellow who will undoubtedly continue to get random phone calls from yowie researchers and the Gympie "yowie attack" is a hoax by a prominent "researcher". It is difficult to find credible sources of information.





Here's a credible source:



Kilcoy, in Queensland, Australia is the home of the legendary Yowie, a larger and more ferocious cousin of the North American Bigfoot and the Himalayan Yeti.

Yowies infest the mountainous country around Kilcoy, and in recognition of their valuable contribution to the area a large wooden statue of the creature has long been a feature of the town's main street.

http://www.yvonneclaireadams.com/HostedStuff/Yowie.jpg
©Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Yowie-statue-Kilcoy-Queensland.JPG)


The last reported Yowie sighting in Kilcoy was in May, 2007 by Daniel Raaen, a student at the University of Queensland.


Cheers,

Dave





Come to think of it, the bloke that wrote that is a known fruitcake. Might be best to ignore it.




I appreciate your skepticism and value your input, forum readers. I am still a few posts away from being able to provide direct links so, continuing with the Mt George sighting, I would appreciate your opinions on Rex Gilroy's report on it and the "evidence" within (should be within his Mysterious Australia site).






There are no Yowies. There are no witnesses. There is no evidence. There is nothing to investigate.

[gtc]

No wonder there are so few Yowies. That photograph shows they have no external genitalia.

[A.A. Alfie]

No wonder there are so few Yowies. That photograph shows they have no external genitalia.

Tuck and tape?

[Akhenaten]

Yowies keep their tackle in another dimension until required for use.

There's a button on the bottom of the statue that tourists can press which illuminates said equipment by means of a quantum ray projector fitted into the base.

[idoubtit]

This post helped me update my website entry on the Yowie. I couldn't find a whole lot but you guys helped.

http://spookspot.wordpress.com/2009/11/11/yowie/

[This is a website aimed for kids so I try to use small words and big ideas.]

[Akhenaten]

I'll give that page a big fat "Good on yer, Mate!"

No nitpicks from me, and if you want any more help, please sing out.


Consider yourself an Honorary Cobber.

[idoubtit]

I'll give that page a big fat "Good on yer, Mate!"

No nitpicks from me, and if you want any more help, please sing out.


Consider yourself an Honorary Cobber.

Thanks. What is a "cobber"? :blush:

[A.A. Alfie]

Thanks. What is a "cobber"? :blush:

I'll reply on the "cobber" IDI.

It is an informal word to describe a friend, mate or pal.
It is very Australian and the great Pharoah has just paid you the ultimate Aussie compliment.
I second his sentiments.
You may use his post as your entry to the most erudite and exclusive discussions in the whole world - namely the Australians only thread viz 'Australia" - in your honorary capacity.

It is your "reality check" that caught my eye and I assume Akhenaten's too.

There is no good evidence to support the existence if the yowie, therefore, science does not recognize it as real. The primary objection is that Australia is an island continent with a limited selection of native animals due to its isolation. It is improbable that a large unknown primate exists in such an environment. The Yowie is considered a bit of a joke.

The bold is mine, and you have summed up our discussion beautifully.

Well done Cobber.:D

[Akhenaten]

Thank you Professor Alfie.

!00% agreement.

[idoubtit]

I am humbled.

[fromdownunder]

I am still a few posts away from being able to provide direct links so, continuing with the Mt George sighting, I would appreciate your opinions on Rex Gilroy's report on it and the "evidence" within (should be within his Mysterious Australia site).

I cannot be bothered looking at Gilroy's "evidence" (and this is the same Gilroy who believes that there are living Dinosaurs running around in the Northern Territory), because the original story does not make a lot of sense and Gilroy has a vested interest in spinning everything unusual that happens - A Yowie took Harold Holt! you read it here first!.

We are discussing your "best most recent case" from AFAIK, the only primary source. Akhenaten commented on most of it, and I agree with his comments, but I believe he missed this bit:



Faye and Alana said the hairy thing stood perfectly still "like it was at attention

Here we have a beast which has managed to survive with humans in the vicinity for maybe 50,000 years with no human contact, no humans tracking it's spoor, (remember aboriginal trackers are rather good, and could find a Goanna with a broken leg) no scat, no hair, no bodies, no skeletons, no photos, no evidence of any kind, and yet...

A car carrying a trailer passes it within touching distance, accelerating, to probably 50 -70 KPH and our Yowie stands still "like it was at attention". Is there a wild animal anywhere who would not even flinch when something came roaring at it at probably 60 KPH? Maybe an elephant, but I suspect it would react in some way.

Norm

[fromdownunder]

I am not Greg but I have corresponded with him previously.

Since you have talked to Greg. please invite him to join the Board here, and let him add his POV to the discussion, since from his extensive postings on this topic, he seems to know more about this than anyone else apart from Faye and Alana (you might ask him to contact either/both of them as well, and then they can join as well and clear up all the missing bits).

Or go whole hog, and talk to Gilroy, and have him come along, join up here, and defend his position.


Norm

[A.A. Alfie]

That does sound like fun.

Nightwalker, I second FDUs proposal to have these friends come and join the party.

[Night Walker]

Greg is very passionate about Rex's "research" and often appears on forums to defend Rex's position. He may well be following this thread but I suspect it would be like stepping into the lion's den for him here at JREF. However, I will invite him the next time we correspond.

I have discussed my own concerns about Rex's "research" with Greg and, although I don't consider my relationship with the Gilroy camp to be hostile, I am not currently in contact with them as I don't consider their data to be reliable for a number of reasons.

I loathe to label all yowie witnesses as being nuts or liars but I do acknowledge there is a very large hoaxing/joking element within the alleged reports. Is there anything more fun than scaring the sh*t out of your mates at night (and in the bush)? Who hasn't done that? Some of these spread via word of mouth become stories in their own right and take on a life of their own. The psychology and folklore of the yowie phenomenon are interesting enough even if you don't believe in the existence of these hairy men.

Finding even reasonably credible and recent alleged sightings is difficult. That many "researchers" focus on the story while little is collected in the way of tangible data only further increases suspicions that it is largely bogus. It's a difficult position for a "believer" like myself to be in.

Has anyone read Healy & Cropper's (2006) "The Yowie: In Search of Australia's Bigfoot"? Any opinions?

[A.A. Alfie]

I mean no personal offence when I point out the following - you seem a reasonable person - but, it must be said, might as well be me..

Finding even reasonably credible and recent alleged sightings is difficult.

No, it's impossible. There are no Yowies.

That many "researchers" focus on the story while little is collected in the way of tangible data only further increases suspicions that it is largely bogus.

Because it is bogus. There is no tangible evidence.

It's a difficult position for a "believer" like myself to be in.

It really should make it an impossible position; But I like your persistence and hope.

Has anyone read Healy & Cropper's (2006) "The Yowie: In Search of Australia's Bigfoot"? Any opinions?

What on earth for?
Do they provide any new evidence that Yowies are real? Or is it more of the discredited sightings and disproved 'science' already proffered?

[fromdownunder]

I loathe to label all yowie witnesses as being nuts or liars but I do acknowledge there is a very large hoaxing/joking element within the alleged reports.

These are not the only options. Misinterpeting visual evidence is certainly another option - here is a true story.

In a former life, I decided to visit friends in Nambucca Heads, and because I did not have much time off available from work, my wife and I decided to drive there in one hit, and she could not drive. We were leaving from Geelong (Go Cats, Premiers again in 2010).

We are talking close to 24 hours non stop (well, except for meals) here, because I had a car that was not all that keen on going over 50MPH (when it went at all).

About 18 hours in "on a full moon bright, lovely night :)" I saw a giant Preying Mantis eating a house. True. But as we got close enough to it, it turned out to be a tall tree swaying in the wind.

There are options which involve neither lying or any form of insanity.

Norm

[A.A. Alfie]

These are not the only options. Misinterpeting visual evidence is certainly another option - here is a true story.

In a former life, I decided to visit friends in Nambucca Heads, and because I did not have much time off available from work, my wife and I decided to drive there in one hit, and she could not drive. We were leaving from Geelong (Go Cats, Premiers again in 2010).

We are talking close to 24 hours non stop (well, except for meals) here, because I had a car that was not all that keen on going over 50MPH (when it went at all).

About 18 hours in "on a full moon bright, lovely night :)" I saw a giant Preying Mantis eating a house. True. But as we got close enough to it, it turned out to be a tall tree swaying in the wind.

There are options which involve neither lying or any form of insanity.

Norm

Unless of course you are insane. See bolded.

[fromdownunder]

Unless of course you are insane. See bolded.

But it's true - I consulted the entrails of a Yowie.

Norm

[Akhenaten]

Greg is very passionate about Rex's "research" and often appears on forums to defend Rex's position. He may well be following this thread but I suspect it would be like stepping into the lion's den for him here at JREF. However, I will invite him the next time we correspond.





I've heard this place called a lion's den before, and Thunderdome as well, but I hope you realise that it's wrong thinking that gets mauled here, not wrong people. I count many Christians and Jews among my friends here, even though I'm a rabid atheist, and I'd never think of attacking their beliefs, save that they should attempt to convince me that I should share them. Then it's on for young and old.

Having an believer come here and present his case for scrutiny with an open mind and an expectation that some of his 'evidence' is going to be shredded is one of the aims of the place. It only turns to worms when we have someone lob up with 'proof' of [insert oddity] and refusing to see otherwise. Wilful ignorance is grist for the mill to some of us here, including Pharaoh, and it will be attacked remorselessly and with vigour.


I have discussed my own concerns about Rex's "research" with Greg and, although I don't consider my relationship with the Gilroy camp to be hostile, I am not currently in contact with them as I don't consider their data to be reliable for a number of reasons.





You're being polite to a fault. The reason for the Gilroy's data(?) being considered unreliable is that it relates to a non-existant creature. What reliability would you assign to data purporting to indicate the existence of Santa Claus?


I loathe to label all yowie witnesses as being nuts or liars but I do acknowledge there is a very large hoaxing/joking element within the alleged reports. Is there anything more fun than scaring the sh*t out of your mates at night (and in the bush)? Who hasn't done that? Some of these spread via word of mouth become stories in their own right and take on a life of their own. The psychology and folklore of the yowie phenomenon are interesting enough even if you don't believe in the existence of these hairy men.





Noble enough sentiments for me. Looking at the phenomena of Yowies is completely different to looking for actual Yowies. Myself and the other professors are doing the former in this very thread.

And of course you're quite correct to avoid labelling all reports and stories about Yowies as lies and hoaxes. I myself will lie through my teeth to convince a n00b that the bush is crawling with Yowies, but I have no doubt that some reports are generated by people who have had a nasty scare, and the stories that they've heard from people just like me have filled in too many blanks for them.

I'd like to think that these people see sense in the cold, hard light of day and realise that what they saw was just a [I]buggeredifiknowasaurus, whilst people such as the Gilroy's choose to make a profession out of becoming part of the joke. I'm sure they don't see it that way, of course.


Finding even reasonably credible and recent alleged sightings is difficult.





Well, you'll never find a credible report. Would you expect to find credible reports of Santa Claus sightings?

Author's note: Well, yes you would, but only from the little kids whom we convinced of the bloke's existence in the first place. Us growed-ups are supposed to realise they're not real.


ETA: Credibility can be a funny thing. Our own Gubmint, through the agency of the DoM, issues Santa Claus tracking information. I don't know how I'd go about explaining that in terms of critical thinking, so I'll just leave it out there for all to see and to speak for itself ;)



That many "researchers" focus on the story while little is collected in the way of tangible data only further increases suspicions that it is largely bogus.





That's because the story is all there is, mate. As your suspicions increase, for the reasons that you state, you'll eventually arrive at about the same POV that Alfie, Norm and myself share.


It's a difficult position for a "believer" like myself to be in.





I know what you mean, but I'm going to suggest that it's a good position to be in. You're having some of your beliefs challenged and dealing with it quite well. I sincerely hope you end up becoming a Yowie Unbeliever™ just like me, but in any case I admire your tenacity in seeking your own answers. Automatically taking our word for things would serve you far less well, especially me. (I haz the fibs, occasionally, when the mood calls for it)


Has anyone read Healy & Cropper's (2006) "The Yowie: In Search of Australia's Bigfoot"? Any opinions?





Someone probably has, but I'll bet it wasn't any of us, and if it was, I'll further bet Melbourne to a rusty rabbit trap that if they have, it wasn't with a view to tracking down a real, live Yowie, being as how there's no such thing.


Cheers,

Dave

[Night Walker]

I also try to get out into the bush as often as I can. Bushwalking at night is an experience and very enjoyable - far safer than walking the 'burbs after dark. No yowie activity around my neck of the woods to report, though.

If yowies exist now or in the past what could they be?

There is nothing remotely in the Australian fossil record to even suggest the possibility of a large man-like marsupial having evolved here. Cross that one out.

Very little is known about Gigantopithecus from the two fossil jaw bones and hundred+ teeth (rumoured to be sold as "Dragon's Teeth" on the Asian exotic black market). A close relative to the orang-utan, Gigantopithecus may not even have been bipedal. Habituating northern India and southern China it is difficult to see how it could have even accidently made it to Australia (eg swept out to sea after a tsunami). Cross that one out until much more information is known.

The archaeolgical jury is out as to whether Homo floresiensis represents an archaic species or deformed modern population. More information needed.

That leaves the Homo erectus-type populations of south-east Asia. When modern humans left Africa they expanded and travelled east along the Asian coastline reaching south-east Asia around 85k - 75k years ago. Would these modern humans have encountered the resident erectus populations? Would relations always have been hostility over competition to resources or would there have been at least occassions for co-operation between these 2 distinct forms of humans? If so, is it possible that the modern humans who migrated across the Wallace Line 65k-50k years ago were accompanied by some of the local erectus populations?

[A.A. Alfie]

No

[Akhenaten]

No

[kitakaze]

That leaves the Homo erectus-type populations of south-east Asia. When modern humans left Africa they expanded and travelled east along the Asian coastline reaching south-east Asia around 85k - 75k years ago. Would these modern humans have encountered the resident erectus populations? Would relations always have been hostility over competition to resources or would there have been at least occassions for co-operation between these 2 distinct forms of humans? If so, is it possible that the modern humans who migrated across the Wallace Line 65k-50k years ago were accompanied by some of the local erectus populations?

No.

Homo erectus was as unhairy as we are. It's 1.7 million years ago, you're running around all over the place, and you need to sweat. Being a hairy mofo does not help this.

[Akhenaten]

No.

Homo erectus was as unhairy as we are. It's 1.7 million years ago, you're running around all over the place, and you need to sweat. Being a hairy mofo does not help this.





Not all hairy creatures sweat. The more sophisticated ones perspire.


http://www.yvonneclaireadams.com/HostedStuff/HomoPharaohicus.jpg
Homo pharaohicus (common akhenaten)


Merry Christmas Kitz! Party hard. :)

[Night Walker]

Humour me as I go about yowie-theorising. Feel free to pull it apart or add further details - I find the "Lion's Den"-type situations more educating that those of unquestioning believers.

Homo erectus/ergaster appeared in eastern Africa about 1.9 million years ago and, taking advantage of favourable conditions was able to migrate into Eurasia about 1.8 million years ago.

The northern hemisphere particularly after that time was affected by cycles of glaciation. There is evidence that both Neanderthals and the the erectus-types could use fire and may have also used skins for warmth, however neither had the capacity to sew skins into garments which would have drastically reduced their mobility (and hence their survivability) when hunting/gathering in cold conditions. Having retained a natural coat of body hair would counter that.

We modern humans H. sapiens sapiens evolved from a small isolated population in harsh, dry conditions in and around what is modern-day Somalia. In addition to having evolved a unique thermal eccrine system (sweat glands)we are not truly hairless but rather generally covered in sparse and fine hair more suited to those conditions.

Sweat glands, like bodily hair, does not preserve well in the fossil record.

Studies of lice genes reveals two distinct forms - one that evolved on us and one that evolved independently on another species (possibly H. erectus) and jumped over to modern humans via contact 25-30k years ago.

If H. erectus-types did not co-operate on occasions with modern humans how did WLH 50 get to Australia?

(I still am unable to post pics or links so feel free to Google WLH 50 for further details.)

Willandra Lakes Hominid 50 (WLH 50) was the 50th set of human remains found in the Willandra region - and the most significant. In 1980 the skull, arm, hand, and foot bones were found on the surface near Lake Garnpung, which lies close to Mungo. Thorne has described WLH 50 as 'much more robust and archaic than any Australian hominid found previously'.

There are 2 extraordinary things about WLH 50: its condition and its form. It's condition is unique: all the normal phosphate in the bones has been replaced by silicates, on the same way that things become opalised, which suggests great antiquity. And WLH 50 is massive: he is so robust he makes Kow Swamp man look gracile! The cranium is extremely wide and approximately 210mm long. The cranial vault bone averages 16mm thick. Massive brow ridges form a continuous torus above the eyes, and the forehead is flat and receding. The back of the skull shows even more archaic features, with subtle cranial buttressing. The neck muscle area is huge, the skull is extremely wide, the greatest width occurs very low in back view, and the difference between the width above and below the ears is much greater than in any modern people. Yet WLH 50’s brain was extremely large; the estimated endocranial volume is 1540mm, well above the 1300 for modern skulls. The skull is flask-shaped, like the Kow Swamp skulls, in bird’s eye view, but all the rugged features of Kow Swamp are much more pronounced in WLH 50. Unfortunately the face, jaw and teeth of WLH 50 have not survived, but enough is left of the rest of his skeleton to indicate that his body was equally massive; his elbow bone, for instance, is enormous.

The age of WLH 50 has been estimated as at least 35 000 BP, and more probably in excess of 40 000 to 50 000 years by John Head of Radiocarbon Dating Research Unit of the ANU. Although very little bone material survives, an electron spin resonance (ESR) date of 29 000 +/- 5000 BP was obtained, but this was regarded as a minimum age. More recently, WLH 50’s age was determined by the OSL method at about 25 000 years, an age accepted by Thorne.

In spite of very uncertain dating, the significance of WLH 50 is immense. Firstly, Thorne maintains that robust WLH 50 could not possibly be descended from the gracile type of WLH 1. It is not only the size and shape of the skulls that differ, the most striking difference is the thickness of the bone; the skull of WLH 50 is some 15-19mm thick, that of WLH 1 only 2mm. The contrast is so great as that between earthenware and bone china, or orange peel and eggshell.

J. Flood (2004) “Archaeology of the Dreamtime: The story of prehistoric Australia and its people”.(revised edition). p 69-70.

Only modern human fossils from the out of Africa expansion should be found in Australia yet there is the archaic-looking WLH 50. I find it interesting.

[gtc]

Not all hairy creatures sweat. The more sophisticated ones perspire.


http://www.yvonneclaireadams.com/HostedStuff/HomoPharaohicus.jpg
Homo pharaohicus (common akhenaten)


Merry Christmas Kitz! Party hard. :)

I have beard envy.

[cyclonic]

A still from a 'yowie video' 2006.
http://www.cryptomundo.com/wp-content/yowie.jpg

What a load of crapola.

http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/yowie-video-ud/

[Night Walker]

No comments on WLH 50?

If the yowie once existed or still exists today it is a type of hairy man (and woman) - not an ape, monster, or giant - with a cranial capacity comparable yet with a brain structurally different to our own - lesser frontal lobe but larger occipital lobe (often referred to as the occipital bun). Intelligent, but in a different way to us and without a dependency on tools - Nature Man, so to speak.

Their famed reclusiveness and elusiveness would not be merely a neat parlour trick - it would be essential for the survival of the species up against the most unique and dominiant hominids the world has ever seen - us!

[kitakaze]

A still from a 'yowie video' 2006.
http://www.cryptomundo.com/wp-content/yowie.jpg

What a load of crapola.

http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/yowie-video-ud/

Where's Han?

[kitakaze]

Not all hairy creatures sweat. The more sophisticated ones perspire.


http://www.yvonneclaireadams.com/HostedStuff/HomoPharaohicus.jpg
Homo pharaohicus (common akhenaten)


Merry Christmas Kitz! Party hard. :)

A belated Merry X-mas and Happy Hannukah/Festivus/New Year to you, Ak. Apologies for the late return.

You came to the JREF because you saw the little picture of Randi up in the corner there and thought it was like some kind of Gandalf man club, right?

BTW, do you shampoo that bad boy for bounce or is that all natural?

:D

[Akhenaten]

Humour me as I go about yowie-theorising. Feel free to pull it apart or add further details - I find the "Lion's Den"-type situations more educating that those of unquestioning believers.





Sorry mate, I wasn't ignoring you, but I must have turned my subscription to the thread off and I missed your post.


Homo erectus/ergaster appeared in eastern Africa about 1.9 million years ago and, taking advantage of favourable conditions was able to migrate into Eurasia about 1.8 million years ago.





Wouldn't you love a time machine, so you could go back and see these developments? I'd love to meet our ancestors. (much more so than my living relatives)

:)


The northern hemisphere particularly after that time was affected by cycles of glaciation. There is evidence that both Neanderthals and the the erectus-types could use fire and may have also used skins for warmth, however neither had the capacity to sew skins into garments which would have drastically reduced their mobility (and hence their survivability) when hunting/gathering in cold conditions. Having retained a natural coat of body hair would counter that.



my bolding


I'm not too sure what you're getting at, so if I'm using the wrong premise, please forgive.

I think you're saying that wearing clothing would have slowed the poor old Neanderthals down enough to affect their ability to hunt, but I don't think that's the case.

Rather, I think developments such as warm clothing probably gave peeps(?) like the cro-magnons the advantage of being able to hunt further from home, and could in fact be said to have improved the mobility of the more modern species.

Taking this thinking to the extreme, I'm far more mobile than than a Neanderthal, even when I'm wearing a three-piece suit.

In other (not very scientific) words, I think being smarter more than made up for being less hairy. My evidence for this would simply be that there aren't any Neanderthals any more, so hairyness can't have been that good a survival 'strategy' for evolution to follow.


We modern humans H. sapiens sapiens evolved from a small isolated population in harsh, dry conditions in and around what is modern-day Somalia. In addition to having evolved a unique thermal eccrine system (sweat glands)we are not truly hairless but rather generally covered in sparse and fine hair more suited to those conditions.





I'm going to have to read up a bit. The uniqueness of our eccrine system is something I was unaware of. I thought it was shared by a whole branch of Mammalia, but I'm clearly no expert.


Sweat glands, like bodily hair, does not preserve well in the fossil record.





I'm not sure that sweat glands can be fairly compared to hair like this. My impression is that hair, and even feathers, is not so rare a feature fossils as internal structures are.


Studies of lice genes reveals two distinct forms - one that evolved on us and one that evolved independently on another species (possibly H. erectus) and jumped over to modern humans via contact 25-30k years ago.





It seems to me quite likely that this sort of thing ought to happen fairly often.

Mosquitos that evolved to suck dinosaur blood seem to have adapted to their whole class of hosts disappearing, not just a single species. I'm inclined to say "So what?", but I won't because I might be missing your point.


If H. erectus-types did not co-operate on occasions with modern humans how did WLH 50 get to Australia?





?

What happened about the lices. We seem to have skipped forward a bit there.

In any case, I can't see why WLH needed sapiens help to get to Australia, any more than the Marsupials did.


Willandra Lakes Hominid 50 (WLH 50) was the 50th set of human remains found in the Willandra region - and the most significant. In 1980 the skull, arm, hand, and foot bones were found on the surface near Lake Garnpung, which lies close to Mungo. Thorne has described WLH 50 as 'much more robust and archaic than any Australian hominid found previously'.





Yup.


There are 2 extraordinary things about WLH 50: its condition and its form. It's condition is unique: all the normal phosphate in the bones has been replaced by silicates, on the same way that things become opalised, which suggests great antiquity.





It's also suggestive of variations in local conditions since the remains were left. I don't know enough to comment on all the factors, but I do know that opalisation isn't solely a function of age.


And WLH 50 is massive: he is so robust he makes Kow Swamp man look gracile! The cranium is extremely wide and approximately 210mm long. The cranial vault bone averages 16mm thick. Massive brow ridges form a continuous torus above the eyes, and the forehead is flat and receding. The back of the skull shows even more archaic features, with subtle cranial buttressing. The neck muscle area is huge, the skull is extremely wide, the greatest width occurs very low in back view, and the difference between the width above and below the ears is much greater than in any modern people. Yet WLH 50’s brain was extremely large; the estimated endocranial volume is 1540mm, well above the 1300 for modern skulls. The skull is flask-shaped, like the Kow Swamp skulls, in bird’s eye view, but all the rugged features of Kow Swamp are much more pronounced in WLH 50. Unfortunately the face, jaw and teeth of WLH 50 have not survived, but enough is left of the rest of his skeleton to indicate that his body was equally massive; his elbow bone, for instance, is enormous.





Arnie is hooge too. He's not a separate species though.

I think.


The age of WLH 50 has been estimated as at least 35 000 BP, and more probably in excess of 40 000 to 50 000 years by John Head of Radiocarbon Dating Research Unit of the ANU. Although very little bone material survives, an electron spin resonance (ESR) date of 29 000 +/- 5000 BP was obtained, but this was regarded as a minimum age. More recently, WLH 50’s age was determined by the OSL method at about 25 000 years, an age accepted by Thorne.





Yup. Big AND old.


In spite of very uncertain dating, the significance of WLH 50 is immense. Firstly, Thorne maintains that robust WLH 50 could not possibly be descended from the gracile type of WLH 1. It is not only the size and shape of the skulls that differ, the most striking difference is the thickness of the bone; the skull of WLH 50 is some 15-19mm thick, that of WLH 1 only 2mm. The contrast is so great as that between earthenware and bone china, or orange peel and eggshell.

J. Flood (2004) “Archaeology of the Dreamtime: The story of prehistoric Australia and its people”.(revised edition). p 69-70.





He's entitled to an opinion. What do others say on the matter?


Only modern human fossils from the out of Africa expansion should be found in Australia yet there is the archaic-looking WLH 50. I find it interesting.





Mungo Man is indeed interesting, but not a Yowie. In any case, it seems he's been dead a while, so I don't think he accounts for any of the recent sightings.



PS

(I still am unable to post pics or links so feel free to Google WLH 50 for further details.)





Post your cites in munged form, mate, and I'll fix them up and repost them for you.

[Akhenaten]

A belated Merry X-mas and Happy Hannukah/Festivus/New Year to you, Ak. Apologies for the late return.

You came to the JREF because you saw the little picture of Randi up in the corner there and thought it was like some kind of Gandalf man club, right?

BTW, do you shampoo that bad boy for bounce or is that all natural?

:D





No dramas mate, I know you're busy :)

Yeah, I must have a word with Mr Randi about his false advertising in the header. I was hoping unbeardies wouldn't be allowed to post.

I'll start a thread in FM about it.

Pharoaoh's Phinest Hair and Beard Tonic™ is made from crocodile fat, powdered rhincerous horn and the tears of the Aten. Available in all reputable outlets throughout the Upper and Lower lands. Hathor swears by it, although she adds henna, and that babe has one wicked 'do'.


http://www.yvonneclaireadams.com/HostedStuff/Hathor.jpg

[Night Walker]

"Post your cites in munged form, mate, and I'll fix them up and repost them for you." - Akhenaten

"You are only allowed to post URLs to websites after you have made 15 posts or more." - vBulletin Message

I'll just make another post to get to the required limit...

[Night Walker]

In Lawson’s Australia, it was the bush that stirred the imagination, and it was the bush yarn—a tale conveyed by word of mouth—that provided both a realistic view of life there and a voice to turn-of-the-century Australian nationalism. The bush yarn had a style of its own, midway between speaking and writing; its dominant feature was calculated casualness, its favourite subject-matter, the celebration of the basic Australian virtues confronted with “the weirdly melancholy and aggressively lonely Australian bush.” In spite of their highly referential dimension, bush ballads were acknowledged as pieces of fiction, as “true lies”, “make-believes” so to speak, i. e., stories whose main function was first to entertain generations of listeners. And it is precisely the relay of so many “reliable liars” across decades that legitimates the ‘reality’ of the tale. This is what happens with the Hairy Man:

"He had been heard of and seen and described so often and by so many reliable liars that most people agreed that there must be something."

The story dramatizes everyday experience and is full of practices (gambling, heavy drinking), domestic imagery (kangaroos, pubs, huts), ghosts of all sorts, “spooks and bogies”, and legendary figures like the Hairy Man, a riddle that gives rise to harsh speculation:

"The most popular and enduring theory was that he was a gorilla, or an orang-outang which had escaped from a menagerie long ago. He was also said to be a new kind of kangaroo, or the last of a species of Australian animals which hadn’t been discovered yet."

For the Hairy Man does belong to national memory; of course, it is nothing but a fantasy whose function is to channel collective fears of the racial, ethnic, cultural other. In Lawson’s short story, the Hairy Man as motif appears and disappears like the Loch Ness monster; it sometimes gives the impression of getting lost in the proliferation of minor stories that forms the intricate pattern of the main narrative, before it springs up to the surface of the text, like the return of the repressed.

In the whole process, it summons figures that belong to a collective imagination where everything is dramatized and intensified.

From "The Hairy Man: Voicing National Identity" by Denise Ginfray

[Night Walker]

Hooray!

WLH 50:

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/6678/wlh50.jpg (http://img301.imageshack.us/i/wlh50.jpg/)http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/wlh50.jpg/1/w676.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img301/wlh50.jpg/1/)
- images from http://www-personal.une.edu.au/~pbrown3/WLH50.html

I think you're saying that wearing clothing would have slowed the poor old Neanderthals down enough to affect their ability to hunt, but I don't think that's the case.

Rather, I think developments such as warm clothing probably gave peeps(?) like the cro-magnons the advantage of being able to hunt further from home, and could in fact be said to have improved the mobility of the more modern species.

In other (not very scientific) words, I think being smarter more than made up for being less hairy. My evidence for this would simply be that there aren't any Neanderthals any more, so hairyness can't have been that good a survival 'strategy' for evolution to follow.


The point I was making was that Neanderthals didn't wear stitched garments and retaining a full coat of body hair would certainly have been of benefit. Cro-Magnon (modern humans) were able to stitch garments and it sure improved their prospects in glacial Europe. Ultimately, Neanderthals were displaced by modern humans (we are an innovative species who generally doesn't tolerate undue competition for resources) but give the Neanderthals some credit - they survived for much longer than we have as a species.

Humans host three different kinds of lice: head lice, body lice (which live mainly in clothing), and pubic lice. The DNA differences between head lice and body lice provide corroborating evidence that humans started wearing clothes about 72,000 years ago, give or take 42,000 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louse

This seems to support the hypothesis that Neanderal and Erectus-types were covered with full body hair and had no need to fashion garments like us "naked" modern humans (although I admit that I need to read more of the lice-literature on that one). Head lice evolved on modern humans, not the other species of Homo species.

If the others in the Homo lineage lacked the precision dexterity, innovation, and technological prowess of the new kids on the hominid block (modern humans) then there is little chance they could have made it to Australia via their own means (like modern humans). There is nothing to suggest that WLH 50 evolved independently in Australia like the menagerie of marsupials. The modern humans that departed out of Africa 85-90k years ago seemed to have led a beachcomber-type of existence as they expanded eastward along southern Asia reaching Australia via sea across the Wallace Line 50-65k years ago. It is not a stretch to imagine modern humans developed some sort of maritime skills via their extended life by the coasts of southern and south-eastern Asia. (http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/ has been very helpful in collating human evolutionary and migratory data).

WLH 50 bears similarities to the Ngandong Erectus-types of Indonesia. An analysis titled "An Australasian test of the recent African origin theory using the WLH-50 calvarium" by John Hawksa, Stephen Ohb, Keith Hunleyc, Seth Dobsond, Graciela Cabanae, Praveen Dayaluf and Milford H. Wolpoffg indicates that "that the Ngandong hominids or a population like them may have contributed significantly to the ancestry of WLH-50". Unfortunately, I have only read the abstract and not the entire article.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WJS-45F4X4V-11&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1158352564&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=42d42694275af8f6661449567770ed30

There is always the possibility that WLH 50 arrived in Australia by accident (eg tsunami) but co-operation between these "hairy men" (archaics) and modern humans cannot be ruled out. Admittedly, more data is needed on the interactions between modern and archaic humans but there does seem to have been considerable temporal overlap. However, I think it is unwise to assume that all interactions were of the hostile-displacement type. Hence my hypothesis is that some Sangiran erectus-types accompanied modern humans to Australia.

Therefore, IF yowies existed or still exist they were/are most likely to be forms of archaic (hairy) humans with a range of physical attributes (eg size) comparable with that of modern humans. That said, I acknowledge that there is no physical evidence for their continued existence and hoaxing/fabrication of yowie stories is widespread.

"He had been heard of and seen and described so often and by so many reliable liars that most people agreed that there must be something."
- from Henry Lawson's bush ballad "The Hairy Man".

Unfortunately, little has changed from Lawson's time except some of the reliable liars now call themselves "yowie researchers".

[Akhenaten]

"Post your cites in munged form, mate, and I'll fix them up and repost them for you." - Akhenaten

"You are only allowed to post URLs to websites after you have made 15 posts or more." - vBulletin Message

I'll just make another post to get to the required limit...





:) Well done.

[Akhenaten]

In Lawson’s Australia, it was the bush that stirred the imagination, and it was the bush yarn—a tale conveyed by word of mouth—that provided both a realistic view of life there and a voice to turn-of-the-century Australian nationalism. The bush yarn had a style of its own, midway between speaking and writing; its dominant feature was calculated casualness, its favourite subject-matter, the celebration of the basic Australian virtues confronted with “the weirdly melancholy and aggressively lonely Australian bush.” In spite of their highly referential dimension, bush ballads were acknowledged as pieces of fiction, as “true lies”, “make-believes” so to speak, i. e., stories whose main function was first to entertain generations of listeners.








That reminds me of a certain poster in this forum.

[Akhenaten]

Hooray!

WLH 50:

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/6678/wlh50.jpg (http://img301.imageshack.us/i/wlh50.jpg/)

- images from http://www-personal.une.edu.au/~pbrown3/WLH50.html





Well, I had to quote your first pic, didn't I?

The second one didn't work, but I went to your source and had a sticky.


The point I was making was that Neanderthals didn't wear stitched garments and retaining a full coat of body hair would certainly have been of benefit. Cro-Magnon (modern humans) were able to stitch garments and it sure improved their prospects in glacial Europe. Ultimately, Neanderthals were displaced by modern humans (we are an innovative species who generally doesn't tolerate undue competition for resources) but give the Neanderthals some credit - they survived for much longer than we have as a species.





I don't think I entirely missed your point about the Neanderthals after all, but my difficulty is in understanding why you're making it.

Are you saying that WLH 50 is a Neanderthal?

That seems unlikely to me.


Humans host three different kinds of lice: head lice, body lice (which live mainly in clothing), and pubic lice. The DNA differences between head lice and body lice provide corroborating evidence that humans started wearing clothes about 72,000 years ago, give or take 42,000 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louse





I love the way they can figure these things out, although 72 000 +/- 42 000 isn't real specific, is it?

I'm a little surprised that they can't use other clues to narrow it down a bit.

Still, I was at first surprised that the date seemed so recent, having never thought about it much, although when one considers that there are still naked folks living in the world, it seems reasonable.

I've always more-or-less assumed that clothing developed as a result of northern expansion meeting a southbound ice-age, and if pressed I would have picked the last ice age as the culprit, so my guess and your most recent date above are in the same cricket pitch. (What's a ball park?)



This seems to support the hypothesis that Neanderal and Erectus-types were covered with full body hair and had no need to fashion garments like us "naked" modern humans (although I admit that I need to read more of the lice-literature on that one). Head lice evolved on modern humans, not the other species of Homo species.





This is where we start to diverge in our thinking.

Neanderthals didn't make clothes because they were (relative to cro-magnon) unintellegent brutes, not because they were hairy and didn't need to.

Horses are hairy, and they need a blanket in either the hot sun or the freezing cold, but the poor buggers certainly can't make them.

In other words, you seem to be saying that losing hair made it a necessity for moderns to make clothes, whereas I would say that the modern ability to make clothes is what resulted in the loss of hair.

I'll still claim that hairyness was no match for intellegence in the end, and that's why there's no Neanderthals, except for Rugby League players,who have sapiens assistants to dress them.


If the others in the Homo lineage lacked the precision dexterity, innovation, and technological prowess of the new kids on the hominid block (modern humans) then there is little chance they could have made it to Australia via their own means (like modern humans).



my bolding

Hang on a sec.

We haven't established that they got here at all, let alone on an assisted travel plan.


There is nothing to suggest that WLH 50 evolved independently in Australia like the menagerie of marsupials.





I haven't seen anything to suggest that WLH 50 is a separate species either, so I'd say he evolved wherever the rest of us did.


The modern humans that departed out of Africa 85-90k years ago seemed to have led a beachcomber-type of existence as they expanded eastward along southern Asia reaching Australia via sea across the Wallace Line 50-65k years ago.





I don't know if 'beachcombing' would appear in the scientific journals, but I gather you mean hunter/gatherer-type stuff. No dispute though. :)


It is not a stretch to imagine modern humans developed some sort of maritime skills via their extended life by the coasts of southern and south-eastern Asia. (http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/ has been very helpful in collating human evolutionary and migratory data).





Absolutely. Until recently I'd assumed that people walked here across land bridges, but some folks here educated me about the Walllace Line et al.

I have no doubt of the skill of Asian sailors and their ability to reach Oz. They're still doing it, after all.


WLH 50 bears similarities to the Ngandong Erectus-types of Indonesia. An analysis titled "An Australasian test of the recent African origin theory using the WLH-50 calvarium" by John Hawksa, Stephen Ohb, Keith Hunleyc, Seth Dobsond, Graciela Cabanae, Praveen Dayaluf and Milford H. Wolpoffg indicates that "that the Ngandong hominids or a population like them may have contributed significantly to the ancestry of WLH-50". Unfortunately, I have only read the abstract and not the entire article.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WJS-45F4X4V-11&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1158352564&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=42d42694275af8f6661449567770ed30





I'm afraid that doesn't tell me much. I probably bear similarities to the Ngandong Erectus-types of Indonesia too, and I'm only Neanderthal in my habits.


There is always the possibility that WLH 50 arrived in Australia by accident (eg tsunami) but co-operation between these "hairy men" (archaics) and modern humans cannot be ruled out.





You mentioned earlier yourself that the cro-magnons didn't enjoy competition, and I agree. I'm inclined to think that sapiens, to this very day, displays the kind of behaviour which would rule out co-operation with competing species.

As for WLH 50 surfing all the way to the Willandra lakes - no.


Admittedly, more data is needed on the interactions between modern and archaic humans but there does seem to have been considerable temporal overlap.





Until we wiped them out.


However, I think it is unwise to assume that all interactions were of the hostile-displacement type. Hence my hypothesis is that some Sangiran erectus-types accompanied modern humans to Australia.



my bolding

Why do you find this unwise? I find it to be perfectly in accord with modern human behaviour. What happened to Captain Cook?


Therefore, IF yowies existed or still exist they were/are most likely to be forms of archaic (hairy) humans with a range of physical attributes (eg size) comparable with that of modern humans.





No. There are no Yowies, so your 'if' is a non-starter.


That said, I acknowledge that there is no physical evidence for their continued existence and hoaxing/fabrication of yowie stories is widespread.





Then why not draw the most obvious conclusion? Occam's Yowie.


"He had been heard of and seen and described so often and by so many reliable liars that most people agreed that there must be something."

- from Henry Lawson's bush ballad "The Hairy Man".





If I'd been born a hundred years earlier, I would have written that story.


Unfortunately, little has changed from Lawson's time except some of the reliable liars now call themselves "yowie researchers".





And some call themselves 'heretic Pharaoh'. It's not that unfortunate, is it? Some of us have sworn to use our powers for teh Good.

[Night Walker]

Thanks for your comments - you've given me a bit to think about. I find that if I spend too much time around "believers" the theories and ideas become less and less grounded.

I remain unconvinced that ALL reported yowie sightings are BS but on the flip side I have yet to personally investigate a potentially authentic one and finding reliable information about other alleged sightings is difficult considering many "yowie researchers" are hoaxers or suspect themselves.

If I do find something of interest I will post here again.

Respect.

[Marduk]

you can find the latest info on WLH 50 here
http://www-personal.une.edu.au/~pbrown3/WLH50.html
along with these quotes
Most recently, Simpson and Grün (1998) have published a U-series date of 12 to 18 ka for Wilandra Lakes 50
Apart from the extremely large overall size of the vault, and the position of maximum cranial breadth, the only other unusual feature of WLH 50 is the extremely thickened bone in the cranial vault. While thickest in the frontal and on the midline, which is the normal pattern for Aboriginal crania (Brown 1992b), the vault is also thickened laterally. The thickened bone is composed almost entirely of expanded diploë, with the inner and outer tables only about 1 mm thick. Both Brown (1989) and Webb (1990) have argued that this thickened vault bone is pathological. This is certainly nothing like the pattern of thickened vault bone found in the Indonesian Pleistocene hominids

so not related to indonesian hominids and at a date some 30,000 years after the first colonisation by aborigines and with a deformity which makes its skeleton unusual which is not common to the rest of its familial species
;)
with the lice you are making the common mistake of assuming that head lice diverged into body lice immediately after clothing was invented. The reality is that evolution or species selection doesn't happen that fast. Examining lice will only tell you how long the lice have been around, not the clothing they inhabit

[Akhenaten]

Thanks for your comments - you've given me a bit to think about. I find that if I spend too much time around "believers" the theories and ideas become less and less grounded.





No wuckers. Hopefully skepticism will have the opposite effect. Some of us are so well grounded we're living in Hobbit holes.

I'm a terrible cynic, so I suppose I'm a bit of the other extreme to the bleevers. You'll be OK if you're somewhere in the middle.

:)


I remain unconvinced that ALL reported yowie sightings are BS . . .





If you mean that some of the sightings were of genuine, 100% living somethings, then we've got no argument.

I've seen those sort of things myself, and I have no way of knowing what they were, but I can work out what they weren't, and top of the list for elimination is non-existant things, since that thing I just saw myself definitely exists.

So Wookies, bigfeets, Bunyips, aliens and Yowies are all non-starters in the "Jeebus, WTF was that!" elimination game that I like to play at these times.

Maybe I'm doing myself a disservice by automatically disbelieving in this way, but I consider it in terms of "What's the worst that can happen?" and I think it's a safe bet that "Being eaten by a Yowie." isn't it.


. . .but on the flip side I have yet to personally investigate a potentially authentic one . . .





In full knowledge that I'm repeating myself, there are NO potentially authentic ones. You're starting from the wrong place.

I start from the position that there are no Yowies and see if anyone can convince me otherwise. You can judge for yourself the success 'they' have had.


. . . and finding reliable information about other alleged sightings is difficult considering many "yowie researchers" are hoaxers or suspect themselves.



my bolding


All. I've researched Yowies extensively, but I couldn't be bothered with Yowie hoaxes because I prefer UFO hoaxes.

But I lie like it's going out of fashion.

I have no idea how you're gonna figure it out.

:)



If I do find something of interest I will post here again.

Respect.





It's all interesting, especially the way these threads wander about like a hairy goat.

Keep posting whatever comes up and we'll make it interesting, one way or another.



Respect right back at ya, cobber,

Dave

[Night Walker]

As a "yowie investigator" conducting an interview my position is: Perhaps yowies exist yet there is ALOT of fakery, deception, and misconception taking place. I am well aware that people can be convincing liars who do so for a wide variety of reasons and sometimes for no reason at all.

With an interest in pre-history my position is: If yowies exist, what could they be?

WLH 50 - the Simpson and Grun report is from 1998 and hardly the final word on this interesting find. What are the odds of finding a fossil from a single pathological individual as opposed to one that is representative of the species? I suggest that it is not just we gullible yowie-folk who clutch at straws to explain things that don't fit. Certainly, further research is needed into WLH 50 and I will wait for what better and more qualified minds than I have to say on the subject in the near future.

Lice - the life span of a head louse is about 1 month with breeding cycles (a generation) about 10 days. In one generation of human life (say 20 years) a population of lice will have went through 720 generations - the equivalent of 14,400 human years. Therefore, genetic mutations which go on to cause a branching off into a new species would occur far more rapidly in lice. Look how fast bacteria and viruses evolve new strands. Is it merely a coincidence that head lice emerged at the same time as modern humans or were they responding to some structural change within us?

The direct ancestors of modern humans went through a genetic bottleneck of sorts giving rise to Mitochondrial Eve some 160k years ago. In other words, as a species we were reduced to a small population and almost didn't make it out of infancy. Perhaps forced to the environmental margins, our direct ancestors had to overcome the adversity of hot, dry conditions in and around what is today Somalia before beginning their exodus out of Africa.

Others in the Homo lineage may well have been fully hairy and only modern humans or those who remained in Africa (before dispersal) evolved our relative hairlessness.

Neanderthals may well have been "dumb" compared to us modern humans but only in the things that we, as a species, excel in - language, motor function (precision dexterity), problem solving, spontaneity, initiation, social behaviour (cooperation and competition). We should not forget that it is we - Homo sapiens sapiens - that are a unique combination of attributes that has allowed us to largely dominate the global environment in ways never before experienced. And rather than simply being a part of our surroundings we are unique in our ability to alter, transform, and destroy the environment in many different ways.

Neanderthals had a larger cranial capacity that us - but larger does not always mean better or more intelligent. It is how our larger rounded frontal lobes are structured that seem to have given us the distinct advantage over the other Homo species. Perhaps Neanderthals were still highly intelligent in their own right but differently so to us. What advantages did their enlarged occipital lobes bestow upon them? Clearly not enough to out-compete modern humans yet they survived over a much longer time frame than us and managed to co-exist along side modern humans for thousands of years.

[Akhenaten]

As a "yowie investigator" conducting an interview my position is: Perhaps yowies exist yet there is ALOT of fakery, deception, and misconception taking place. I am well aware that people can be convincing liars who do so for a wide variety of reasons and sometimes for no reason at all.





Good-oh. I'm happy to meet you at that starting point.


With an interest in pre-history my position is: If yowies exist, what could they be?





Can we go back as far as Gondwana, you think? I reckon that will open up the possibilities a bit, although it would be pushing the limit to have Neanderthals (for example) that far back in history.

The only reason for wanting to go back a bit further is because I don't like the idea of Neanderthal sailors, or the co-operation theory, but I'll follow your lead with that.


WLH 50 - the Simpson and Grun report is from 1998 and hardly the final word on this interesting find. What are the odds of finding a fossil from a single pathological individual as opposed to one that is representative of the species?





Despite this being my personal favourite theory, I have to agree that the odds might seem astronomical.

However, there are factors which may skew the odds:

1. What if the relations did this guy in during a period of not enough tucker to go around. He'd likely be the first pick for a tap on the head with a nulla nulla if he was seen as too much of a burden on the tribe,

2. His 'deformities' make him a more likely candidate for having an accident and getting all fossilised and stuff.

3. Maybe there was a whole tribe with the same congenital 'deformity'.


Still, makes you wonder.


I suggest that it is not just we gullible yowie-folk who clutch at straws to explain things that don't fit.





What's this 'we', white man? I don't find you gullible at all. I'm quite pleased with your tenacity and willingness to listen.

You're right about the straws though. I've seen a few rabid sceptics (not here) come up with some pretty desperate mundane or 'scientific' explanations.


Certainly, further research is needed into WLH 50 and I will wait for what better and more qualified minds than I have to say on the subject in the near future.





Yep. Me too. There's a lot to figure out, and I'm not surprised that there's a bit of controversy about the findings so far.

They'll sort it out in the end and come up with a consensus.


Lice - the life span of a head louse is about 1 month with breeding cycles (a generation) about 10 days. In one generation of human life (say 20 years) a population of lice will have went through 720 generations - the equivalent of 14,400 human years. Therefore, genetic mutations which go on to cause a branching off into a new species would occur far more rapidly in lice. Look how fast bacteria and viruses evolve new strands. Is it merely a coincidence that head lice emerged at the same time as modern humans or were they responding to some structural change within us?





No dispute from me. You've thought about this more than I have so far and what you say seems quite reasonable.

It sounds a bit like Gregor Mendel and his peas or the fruit flies that they use today(?) for speeded-up genetic studies.


The direct ancestors of modern humans went through a genetic bottleneck of sorts giving rise to Mitochondrial Eve some 160k years ago. In other words, as a species we were reduced to a small population and almost didn't make it out of infancy.





Yup. We seem to find the effects of that everywhere.


Perhaps forced to the environmental margins, our direct ancestors had to overcome the adversity of hot, dry conditions in and around what is today Somalia before beginning their exodus out of Africa.

Others in the Homo lineage may well have been fully hairy and only modern humans or those who remained in Africa (before dispersal) evolved our relative hairlessness.





I'm not sure enough of the level of adaptations like that since Eve's time to have a real opinion, but it sounds perfectly reasonable.


Neanderthals may well have been "dumb" compared to us modern humans but only in the things that we, as a species, excel in - language, motor function (precision dexterity), problem solving, spontaneity, initiation, social behaviour (cooperation and competition).





Well, you have to admit, those are pretty significant advantages. Almost a complete set, in fact.


We should not forget that it is we - Homo sapiens sapiens - that are a unique combination of attributes that has allowed us to largely dominate the global environment in ways never before experienced. And rather than simply being a part of our surroundings we are unique in our ability to alter, transform, and destroy the environment in many different ways.





I'm not going to argue with that because it's pretty much the reason I think any ancestral Yowie would have been displaced or wiped out long before it actually got to the Yowie stage, or Australia.


Neanderthals had a larger cranial capacity that us - but larger does not always mean better or more intelligent. It is how our larger rounded frontal lobes are structured that seem to have given us the distinct advantage over the other Homo species. Perhaps Neanderthals were still highly intelligent in their own right but differently so to us.





I use this approach when someone asks me why whales don't evolve into something better, like people.

After I bite my tongue to avoid pointing out their abject ignorance, I simply answer that it's because they're already much, much better at being whales.


My argument against the Neanderthals being better equipped upstairs than was thought is that this would have made them even more of a threat to the cro-magnons (if they were indeed the culprits in the demise of N.) and thus, more likely targets for assisted extinction.


What advantages did their enlarged occipital lobes bestow upon them? Clearly not enough to out-compete modern humans yet they survived over a much longer time frame than us and managed to co-exist along side modern humans for thousands of years.





Yes, and lions and zebras co-exist too, but I doubt they were giving each other a hand to get up the ramp onto the ark.

[A.A. Alfie]

We were in the 'outback' (er, country road any way) last week somewhere between Wang' and Yarra' approaching a small town called Peechleba (pronounced Peach-el-bar) where we saw what must have been a baby Yowie.

It was about 10.00pm, the car that had just passed us had had it's high beams on (ignorant twat - city folk no doubt, thought I) causing some momentary blindness. As we (the good lady wife and the two youngest 13 and 11) started coming out of this 'blindness' we saw crossing the road a very startled animal.
It must have been a baby yowie because it wasn't very big.
We originally thought it was a rabbit, but it was too big.
Then we thought wombat but it used it's hind legs more pronouncedly that a wombat.
Koala? No same reason as a wombat.
It certainly wasn't a roo, nor a fox.

No doubt the car that had had its high beams on had seen the adult, hence the high beams - I have no doubt that the person/people in that car have their own yowie story that will hit the press/internet very soon.

We discussed this for some time afterwards and by the following morning all agreed it was a Yowie as we could not identify it as anything else.

I know this sounds a bit like a previous hypothetical that I threw up - but this story is actually true. My wife is still shaking.


As an off topic aside; Peechleba is the 'home' of Mad Dog Morgan and I will post some stuff on him in the Aussie thread a little later tonight for those interested.

[Akhenaten]

Not the same as the deer story though, because now you're aware of them, and you know what you're looking for.

If you're sure it wasn't a wallaby then my first hypothesis is a Koala.

Any recollections of colour? Have you folks seen Koalas when they're in a hurry, galloping along? Their back legs are a bit too long, so they 'lope' along, but they can get really mobile.

Koalas really suck at crossing roads too.

Of course, I'm just floating these ideas for the fun of it, and there's no doubt at all that it was a Yowie. I wonder if that Rex feller would be interested.

[A.A. Alfie]

Got it!

Tassie Devil (or a yowie)

[Akhenaten]

Got it!

Tassie Devil (or a yowie)




.



http://www.yvonneclaireadams.com/HostedStuff/TasmanianDevil.jpg
Tasmanian Devil, Sarcophilus harrisii

Picture: ABC News


Parks Tasmania says (http://www.parks.tas.gov.au/?base=387):


The Tasmanian devil cannot be mistaken for any other marsupial. Its spine-chilling screeches, black colour, and reputed bad-temper, led the early European settlers to call it The Devil. Although only the size of a small dog, it can sound and look incredibly fierce.





and:


Devils once occurred on mainland Australia, with fossils having been found widely. But it is believed the devil became extinct on the mainland some 400 years ago – before European settlement. Devils probably became extinct there due to increasing aridity and the spread of the dingo, which was prevented by Bass Strait from entering Tasmania.





However, Mainland Devils (http://www.mainlanddevils.com/) reckon:


Although it is not common knowledge, five Tasmanian devils have been collected from the wild in mainland Victoria during the 88 years between 1903 and 1991 (see the photo of two mainland Tasmanian devil specimens).





Yowie, definitely

[Night Walker]

We were in the 'outback' (er, country road any way) last week somewhere between Wang' and Yarra' approaching a small town called Peechleba (pronounced Peach-el-bar) where we saw what must have been a baby Yowie.

It was about 10.00pm, the car that had just passed us had had it's high beams on (ignorant twat - city folk no doubt, thought I) causing some momentary blindness. As we (the good lady wife and the two youngest 13 and 11) started coming out of this 'blindness' we saw crossing the road a very startled animal.
It must have been a baby yowie because it wasn't very big.
We originally thought it was a rabbit, but it was too big.
Then we thought wombat but it used it's hind legs more pronouncedly that a wombat.
Koala? No same reason as a wombat.
It certainly wasn't a roo, nor a fox.

No doubt the car that had had its high beams on had seen the adult, hence the high beams - I have no doubt that the person/people in that car have their own yowie story that will hit the press/internet very soon.

We discussed this for some time afterwards and by the following morning all agreed it was a Yowie as we could not identify it as anything else.

I know this sounds a bit like a previous hypothetical that I threw up - but this story is actually true. My wife is still shaking.


Was it walking upright or on all-fours?

Could you and your wife draw separate pictures of what you saw and then scan and post them for inspection?

Thanks

[A.A. Alfie]

NW, just in case you are not joking - a little friendly advice about me generally (but especially when it comes to Yowies) - anything I say, apply salt liberally and check to see how firmly my tongue is lodged inside my cheek.

Cheers

Alfie

[Drewbot]

Sweet ! Yowiie Skulls. Good find Nightwalker, I've been waiting for the Yowiie evidence to start filtering into the thread.

[Night Walker]

NW, just in case you are not joking - a little friendly advice about me generally (but especially when it comes to Yowies) - anything I say, apply salt liberally and check to see how firmly my tongue is lodged inside my cheek.

Cheers

Alfie


Nice one. I certainly don't mind - a sense of humour is important especially in this field of endeavour. I thought I'd better ask about it just to be safe.

Sweet ! Yowiie Skulls. Good find Nightwalker, I've been waiting for the Yowiie evidence to start filtering into the thread.


Unfortunately, WHL 50 is quite old (exact dating still in dispute) and there is still little to nothing in the way of physical evidence for yowies. I'm kind of surprised no-one has linked WJH 50 to yowies before considering it's features. Rex claims to have found 100 skulls and endocasts but let's not go there...

[atpeace]

I live near ormeau, south east queensland where a yowie likes jogging next to the gold coast highway during the morning rush hour!:

DATE : 98

LOCATION : Gold Coast, Pacific Hwy

TERRAIN : Heavy bush on both sides of the road.

"Women driving to work along the Pacific Highway in the early morning peak hour, noticed the traffic was slowing down ahead of her. As she crept along the road, she saw what appeared to her as a vagrant trundling along the side of the Highway.

As she approached a little closer, a terrible smell came through the car that resembled rotting eggs. The "person" looked very dirty, like he was covered in mud and looked quite distressed.

She eventually caught up with him and to her shock, it was not a man at all. It was 7' tall and exept for the face it was covered in dirty brown hair. It seemed to be hunched over as it jogged along side the motorists and from her report, it seemed to be extremely emaciated. She drove onto work, and had a very confusing and stressful day.



Can I nominate her as an Honorary Bigfoot Researcher? I sense I'd have no trouble getting her in
ap

[Night Walker]

Yowie - the Australian Bigfoot (part 1)
http://tv.fooyoh.com/fooyohtv_videos_viral/5731441

Yowie - the Australian Bigfoot (part 2)
http://tv.fooyoh.com/fooyohtv_videos_viral/5732149

Dean Harrison, yowie-hunter: "Now the normal sceptic, you've got to keep in mind, he sits in his armchair in his lounge room mainly in a large city and he says "Because I have not seen I do not believe". Now if a scientist or a sceptic would like to spend a week in our lives I think we'd turn him around pretty quickly."

Dr Steve Van Dyke, zoologist: "All scientists exist for the monumental discovery of their life time and I would love this more than anybody but our position as scientists is to keep people without that kind of knowledge on the tracks, really, and if we can provide a simple explanation for those kind of things then, in a way, we're keeping them sane and we're keeping their case honest."

Compare the methodology - Yahoo Theatrics vs Calm Reason.

*sigh*

[Akhenaten]

Can I nominate her as an Honorary Bigfoot Researcher? I sense I'd have no trouble getting her in
ap





It seems the requirements for 'bigfoot researcher' are pretty lax. Why not?


We're all Yowie researchers here, by the way, and that's how we debunked the story in your quote. It was Professor Norm, if I recall correctly, having a tough day at work.

[Akhenaten]

Unfortunately, WHL 50 is quite old (exact dating still in dispute) and there is still little to nothing in the way of physical evidence for yowies. I'm kind of surprised no-one has linked WJH 50 to yowies before considering it's features. Rex claims to have found 100 skulls and endocasts but let's not go there...





I'd be surprised if a few people haven't tried to link WLH 50 with Yowies, but I'm not at all surprised that the idea will never get enough traction to be taken seriously by the hoi-polloi.

Anyone old enough and experienced enough to be taken seriously knows that Yowies are a joke. The only people wanting to promote the idea of real Yowies would either have to have some other agenda running in the background or be a few sangers short of a picnic.



Yowie - the Australian Bigfoot (part 1)
http://tv.fooyoh.com/fooyohtv_videos_viral/5731441

Yowie - the Australian Bigfoot (part 2)
http://tv.fooyoh.com/fooyohtv_videos_viral/5732149

Dean Harrison, yowie-hunter: "Now the normal sceptic, you've got to keep in mind, he sits in his armchair in his lounge room mainly in a large city and he says "Because I have not seen I do not believe". Now if a scientist or a sceptic would like to spend a week in our lives I think we'd turn him around pretty quickly."





Not only a strawman, but completely wrong.

The people most likely to debunk Yowies are folks like Alfie, Norm and myself who have between us many years of experience out in the mulga.

Not to mention that the Native Australians don't believe in bloody Yowies either.

I'll bet Mr Harrison is projecting.



Dr Steve Van Dyke, zoologist: "All scientists exist for the monumental discovery of their life time and I would love this more than anybody but our position as scientists is to keep people without that kind of knowledge on the tracks, really, and if we can provide a simple explanation for those kind of things then, in a way, we're keeping them sane and we're keeping their case honest."

Compare the methodology - Yahoo Theatrics vs Calm Reason.

*sigh*





Oops! I've been using Yahoo Reasoning and Calm Theatrics. Stoopid instructions were in Jinglish.

[Night Walker]

Not to mention that the Native Australians don't believe in bloody Yowies either.


Well, there are claims to the contrary but the sources of those claims (i.e. "yowie researchers") are suspect and/or unreliable. In my limited experience, the indigenous folk either swear they are real or laugh at the suggestion leaving me none the wiser.

Plenty of "researchers" claim their numerous sightings as evidence of yowie existence but such "researchers" (like in the video link above) are among the most prolific hoaxers.

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/608/footcomparison07.jpg (http://img685.imageshack.us/i/footcomparison07.jpg/)

The image above is a comparison between a supposed yowie footprint cast (the footprint was conveniently found by Harrison while alone at camp the morning after allegedly being attacked by a yowie) and Harrison's own foot. I would say that it is pretty conclusive proof of hoaxing - or am I jumping to conclusions?

Harrison is a supposedly respected "yowie researcher" supported by and with close links to other supposedly respected "researchers" - Neil Frost, Brett Green (of Gympie Pyramid fame), and Pixie Byrnes all who supply information to authors Healy & Cropper ("The Yowie: I Search of Australia's Bigfoot") and Gary Opit ("Australian Cryptozoology"). It's little more than a hoaxer's network yet these guys represent the mainstream of "yowie research" since taking over from Gilroy (who is suspect and unreliable in his own right).

Below is Frost's photo allegedly showing yowie eye-shine. What do you guys think?

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/2953/post174881206617601.png (http://img193.imageshack.us/i/post174881206617601.png/)

"Unfortunately I only have two photographs of the Yowie, probably two more than most people. This one is a photograph of the "red eye" that I took with a hand held camera at a distance of about 16 metres (48 feet). The height to the eyes is 6 feet 1 inch (plus forehead), a height confirmed by the New South Wales Police who were investigating our "problem" as part of their extended investigation over 3 months plus 3 day stakeout. The eye separation was estimated at 66 mm (2.6 inches) by professional photographer and confirmed by actual comparative measurements of thickness of branches in immediate foreground." - Neil Frost.

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=22305&st=0&start=0

My analysis (assuming Frost's measurements are accurate and not exaggerated) is that it is nothing more than a brush-tail possum - which also has red eye-shine, can grow to a body length of 55cm and an additional tail length of 40cm.

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/53/post174881206617601comp.jpg (http://img683.imageshack.us/i/post174881206617601comp.jpg/)

Is it possible to mistake a possum for a hairy man? No. Frost's picture is so indistinct and the supporting information is so vague (anonymous experts and policemen - impossible to verify) that I believe he felt that he could make any claim about it and it would pass as yowie evidence. That is why there seems to be only the one photo in this sequence.

Am I jumping to conclusions?

[A.A. Alfie]

How many times have you seen human eyes catch the light like that?
The answer will be "never" - we are not nocturnal, and to the best of my knowledge there is only one primate (monkeys or apes) that is.

Isn't the Yowie supposed to be close to human? His eyes would be 'designed' similarly to ours.

If he is close to possum, this argument might work, otherwise; Yes, you are jumping to conclusions.

BTW. There is no such thing as a Yowie.

[Akhenaten]

Well, there are claims to the contrary but the sources of those claims (i.e. "yowie researchers") are suspect and/or unreliable. In my limited experience, the indigenous folk either swear they are real or laugh at the suggestion leaving me none the wiser.





The aboriginal people are wonderful at deadpan comedy, and all the blokes I've met have enjoyed a joke at the expense of an ingénu just as much as I do.



Plenty of "researchers" claim their numerous sightings as evidence of yowie existence but such "researchers" (like in the video link above) are among the most prolific hoaxers.





Yup.



<stuff>





Am I jumping to conclusions?





Depends. Have you concluded that there are no Yowies? If so, then no, your conclusion is valid.

[kitakaze]

Below is Frost's photo allegedly showing yowie eye-shine. What do you guys think?

I think any Bigfoot/Yeti/Yowie etc enthusiast that talks about eyeshine needs to do some reading. Eyeshine is caused by a reflective structure within the eye known as the tapetum lucidum (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Calf-Eye-Posterior-With-Retina-Detached-2005-Oct-13.jpg). The only primates to have TL are prosimian (primitive primates) such as the sportive lemur and the aye-aye. Monkeys and great apes, humans included, lost TL many millions of years ago in favour of developing colour vision. Yowie, like Bigfoot, is either an ape like Gigantopithecus or a hominin such as Paranthropus boisei. None of these creatures would have had TL.

The kneejerk reactions by enthusiasts is to state that Bigfoots or Yowies simply re-evolved the TL. Nein. Sorry. No. You don't just boom evolve something back. You can look to tarsiers for an example. These are nocturnal primates descended from diurnal ones. They did not have TL so to make up for it, they evolved huge eyes each as large as its brain. It's like expecting emus to evolve flight capable wings. It's not going to happen. Eyeshine where Yowie is concerned is either misidentification of a known animal or object or simply a fabrication by the storyteller who is unfamiliar with primate biology.

[Night Walker]

Depends. Have you concluded that there are no Yowies? If so, then no, your conclusion is valid.

lol... not yet. I need to keep the possibility of their existence open in order to adequately investigate alleged sightings and encounters. You will just have to bear with me on that one. However, the more I look the more I find evidence of nothing more than chicanery (as in the footprint cast and red eye photo above). I have no problem admitting that.

Alleged eye-shine from yowies is a quandary and is perhaps best explained away by the high number of bogus and misidentified reports. From my position, the only remotely similar thing in humans (and near-humans and apes) would be the red eye effect from flash photography. It's something I need to examine and understand further before I examine the possibility of linking it in with the "occipital bun" (enlarged visual perception system) of archaic humans. If anyone here has further knowledge on the subject I am all ears...

[Akhenaten]

Ohnoes! You've awoken the kitakaze!

Prepare to be facted mercilessly.


:)

[A.A. Alfie]

I think any Bigfoot/Yeti/Yowie etc enthusiast that talks about eyeshine needs to do some reading. Eyeshine is caused by a reflective structure within the eye known as the tapetum lucidum (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Calf-Eye-Posterior-With-Retina-Detached-2005-Oct-13.jpg). The only primates to have TL are prosimian (primitive primates) such as the sportive lemur and the aye-aye. Monkeys and great apes, humans included, lost TL many millions of years ago in favour of developing colour vision. Yowie, like Bigfoot, is either an ape like Gigantopithecus or a hominin such as Paranthropus boisei. None of these creatures would have had TL.

The kneejerk reactions by enthusiasts is to state that Bigfoots or Yowies simply re-evolved the TL. Nein. Sorry. No. You don't just boom evolve something back. You can look to tarsiers for an example. These are nocturnal primates descended from diurnal ones. They did not have TL so to make up for it, they evolved huge eyes each as large as its brain. It's like expecting emus to evolve flight capable wings. It's not going to happen. Eyeshine where Yowie is concerned is either misidentification of a known animal or object or simply a fabrication by the storyteller who is unfamiliar with primate biology.


Exactly what I said...:rolleyes:

Well except that I had no good scientificy stuff. :blush:


big snip to correct
I find evidence of nothing more than chicanery (as in the footprint cast and red eye photo above). I have no problem admitting that.



Sensible lad.

There is no such thing as a Yowie.

There are things called "Owies" however. My kids used to collect them, they are a bit like a Boo-Boo and can usually be managed with a kiss and a pat on the head, or maybe a band-aid if they are a little nastier.

[kitakaze]

Alleged eye-shine from yowies is a quandary and is perhaps best explained away by the high number of bogus and misidentified reports. From my position, the only remotely similar thing in humans (and near-humans and apes) would be the red eye effect from flash photography. It's something I need to examine and understand further before I examine the possibility of linking it in with the "occipital bun" (enlarged visual perception system) of archaic humans. If anyone here has further knowledge on the subject I am all ears...

There's nothing mysterious about eyeshine and Yowies. Either people are mistaken about what they see or they never saw anything in the first place and are lying. The red-eye effect is a photographic effect and not one that can occur in nature. Red-eye happens with humans and other animals that have no tapetum lucidum, only rarely in animals that do. Red-eye happens when the light from the flash of a camera passes through the pupil into the retina and reflects off the fundus (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Fundus_of_eye_normal.jpg) at the back of the eye back out the pupil before the pupil can contract, which is recorded by the camera.

The occipital buns are skeletal protrusions that occur at the back of the skull in a region of the brain that governs spatial reasoning and motor function. It will have nothing to do whatsoever with the internal morphology of the eye and its inner surfaces.


Mistakes and lies - there is no reason to overcomplicate what is inherently simple. Is there any good reason at all to think that there really are Yowies and that they have somehow, impossibly developed eyeshine?

[kitakaze]

Ohnoes! You've awoken the kitakaze!

Prepare to be facted mercilessly.


:)

http://forums.randi.org/picture.php?albumid=173&pictureid=1362

[idoubtit]

New post about the Yowie from Darren Naish.
http://scienceblogs.com/tetrapodzoology/2010/01/the_yowie_australian_bigfoot.php

[Night Walker]

I like this sentiment:

"Maybe all the reports represent misidentifications, hoaxes and the manifestations of cultural stereotypes or something, but even if this is so, there's still an interesting phenomenon here that's worthy of investigation. Those of us predominantly interested in zoology sometimes forget that cryptozoological reports might tell us more about folklore, psychology, witness perception and/or cultural transmission than anything else (see Meurger 1995, Meurger & Gagnon 1988). As a result I still think that investigation of subjects like the Yowie is worthwhile, and within the remit of science. Please remember this as you read the following: I'm nowhere near happy with the idea that the Yowie might be real, but - whatever the phenomenon represents - it's interesting."

http://scienceblogs.com/tetrapodzoology/2010/01/the_yowie_australian_bigfoot.php

[Akhenaten]

I like this sentiment:

"Maybe all the reports represent misidentifications, hoaxes and the manifestations of cultural stereotypes or something, but even if this is so, there's still an interesting phenomenon here that's worthy of investigation. Those of us predominantly interested in zoology sometimes forget that cryptozoological reports might tell us more about folklore, psychology, witness perception and/or cultural transmission than anything else (see Meurger 1995, Meurger & Gagnon 1988). As a result I still think that investigation of subjects like the Yowie is worthwhile, and within the remit of science. Please remember this as you read the following: I'm nowhere near happy with the idea that the Yowie might be real, but - whatever the phenomenon represents - it's interesting."

http://scienceblogs.com/tetrapodzoology/2010/01/the_yowie_australian_bigfoot.php





I don't disagree, but I want to highlight part of the above quote.


Those of us predominantly interested in zoology sometimes forget that cryptozoological reports might tell us more about folklore, psychology, witness perception and/or cultural transmission than anything else . . .





. . .within the remit of science





I agree strongly with this, but in doing so I note that the 'researchers' who claim that Yowies exist have little expertise in any of these areas, and certainly not in all of them.

[Night Walker]

Yowie Eye-Shine

By far the most commonly reported aspect of alleged yowie eye-shine is the distinctive red colour. Conventional eye-shine from nocturnal animals is caused by the tapetum lucidum which is not present in humans and apes. The closest thing which approximates it is the red-eye effect from flash photography.

Because the light of the flash occurs too fast for the pupil to close, much of the very bright light from the flash passes into the eye through the pupil, reflects off the fundus at the back of the eyeball, and out through the pupil. The camera records this reflected light. The main cause of the red color is the ample amount of blood in the choroid which nourishes the back of the eye and is located behind the retina. The blood in the retinal circulation is far less than in the choroid, and plays virtually no role. The eye contains several photostable pigments that all absorb in the short wavelength region, and hence contribute somewhat to the red eye effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red-eye_effect

It is highly unlikely that a relict primate or hominid species could re-evolve the tapetum lucidum in such a relatively short span of time. Given the high degree of fictionalising and exaggerationin many alleged yowie sightings it is highly likely that many of the reported incidents of yowie eye-shine are false and/or misidentification (purposely misidentified or otherwise).

However, one lesser reported aspect of nocturnal yowie reports is of yowies showing an intense dislike (discomfort?) of bright lights. This is what could be expected in the absence of a tapetum lucidum and is certainly more consistent with how an ape or human would react to light when their pupils have dilated in the dark.

If yowies are relic hominids - WLH 50, Homo erectus - then perhaps it is possible that their enlarged occipital lobes (the occipital bun) allows voluntary control of their pupils rather than the standard human reflex of constricting the pupils in the presence of bright light. This would present both the red-eye effect and an aversion to the light. Such voluntary control of the mechanics of the eye have been lost by modern humans (no occipital bun) who are more active during the daylight and who acquired a greater mastery of fire to overcome the darkness of night.

What do you guys think? Feel free to pick holes in my reasoning or to correct any misconceptions (other than "yowies don't exist" - consider this a hypothetical discussion).

[A.A. Alfie]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what you are saying is...

Because Yowies eyes are for nocturnal use, they don't like bright lights.
And because they don't like bright lights they dont come near humans or their night tools.
And it's because of this we don't see them.

Is that about it?

[Lucian]

Yowies have red eye-shine? Is it possible that they are actually large Siamese cats? Are Yowies often associated with unearthly yowling?

[Akhenaten]

Yowies have exactly the same eyeshine characteristics as wyverns, centaurs, leprechauns and Cornish pixies.

[Akhenaten]

What do you guys think? Feel free to pick holes in my reasoning or to correct any misconceptions (other than "yowies don't exist" - consider this a hypothetical discussion).





Which is faster, a Federation Galaxy Class Starship or a Klingon Bird of Prey?

The question makes as much sense as a question about Yowie physiology.

[Night Walker]

Which is faster, a Federation Galaxy Class Starship or a Klingon Bird of Prey?

That question would surely create much debate among trekkies (true fans/believers).

If I wanted the opinions of the yowie faithful I would have asked on a "believers" forum. I believe that I have stated my position on yowies firmly enough and I am at least attempting to make some degree of sense from a field of enquiry more used to dealing with nonsense.

I get it that you guys think/know the yowie doesn't exist, however IF there is any kernal of truth to the yowie phenomenon other than myth-making and misidentification then I would like to understand it. Is this not an appropriate thing to do? Is this not an appropriate forum to discuss such hypotheticals - What is possible as opposed to what is not?

[Akhenaten]

That question would surely create much debate among trekkies (true fans/believers).





And a great deal of mirth for everyone else. I love Star Trek myself, but comparison of the performance of pretend starships is childish and nonsensical.



If I wanted the opinions of the yowie faithful I would have asked on a "believers" forum. I believe that I have stated my position on yowies firmly enough and I am at least attempting to make some degree of sense from a field of enquiry more used to dealing with nonsense.





You can't make sense out of a fairytale. No matter how you phrase your enquiries, there are no sensible answers to the physiology of a myth.



I get it that you guys think/know the yowie doesn't exist, however IF there is any kernal of truth to the yowie phenomenon other than myth-making and misidentification then I would like to understand it.





There isn't. No if's, no but's no Yowies.



Is this not an appropriate thing to do? Is this not an appropriate forum to discuss such hypotheticals - What is possible as opposed to what is not?





This is an appropriate place to discuss the evidence* for Yowies. What have you got?

I can't say that Yowies are impossible, any more than I can say there's no life on Jupiter, but as a working knowledge, "No way!" works pretty well.



* Anecdotes are not evidence. WLH50 is not evidence. Newspaper sensationalism is not evidence.

In fact, given the extraordinary nature of a fairytale come to life, I'd say the only evidence that would work is an actual Yowie. Nothing less will work for me, I'm afraid.

Maybe Professors Norm and Alfie will be more amenable, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

[A.A. Alfie]

Maybe Professors Norm and Alfie will be more amenable, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

I will call your farm and raise the outback. :)

I would go a step further. Yowies are impossible.
But they are a good source of piss-taking fodder that is hopeful foreigners.

NW. You seem like a really decent bloke, but your hypotheticals are little more than that, hypotheticals. We could discuss the possibility of rhonocerous roaming the savannas of Australia too, but the fact is, there aren't any rhino's and we don't have savannas to support them. But it would be a lot of fun (I s'pose) to speculate on it....

As our learned pharaoh states, we would need some proof, not conjecture. And to date there is absolutely nothing with any semblance of credibility to support the existence of yowies.

Bunyips however are a completely different thing. :)

[fromdownunder]

NW. You seem like a really decent bloke, but your hypotheticals are little more than that, hypotheticals. We could discuss the possibility of rhonocerous roaming the savannas of Australia too, but the fact is, there aren't any rhino's and we don't have savannas to support them. But it would be a lot of fun (I s'pose) to speculate on it....


Oh yeah? - This is a 15 minute drive from my place: :D

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z191/fromdownunder_bucket/werribee.jpg

However, seriously, I agree with both Akhenaten and Alfie. Hypotheticals can be fun, but are usually confined to Philosophy and not hard science subjects. I will state that anything is possible, provided it is within the laws of Physics and Chemistry, and if I liked, I could probably make up a plausable explanation for Nessie. I could speculate about life on Io, or other Jupiter moons, but until we actually go there and investigate, a hypothetical about life forms on Io is a waste of time.

But the real problem is that the Yowie is as real as Dropbears. It has the exact same problem as Bigfoot has - no scat, no roadkill, no pictures, no spore, no bones, no DNA, no anything. No evidence whatsoever.

Australian Aboriginals are among the best trackers of anything natural in the outback, and in bushland - 50,000 years of experience is pretty helpful in handing down precedent, and training future trackers - they could tell you how much earlier a Goanna rested at a certain spot, and if it had a broken leg or not, and even how fast it was travelling, when it was moving.

There is, AFAIK, no, none, zip, nada, zero legitimate dreamtime Yowie legends, and no actual post European Invasion Yowie claims from any of the Aboriginal populations. Dropbears..., well be more careful, because they might just get you when you are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Yowie sightings are like feral Panther sightings in Gippsland and the Otways- people claim to have seen them, and the evidence adds up to zero. Third rate photos, useless eye witness reports, nothing at all which adds up to "evidence" There is nobody behind these particular curtains.

Norm

[Uncayimmy]

We could use a mathematician here. I think there's gotta be a formula to predict the likelihood of scientific verification of a beast based on the number of anecdotes. You know, the first couple of anecdotes you figure, "meh." When you get a few more, you start thinking, "Hmm...could be interesting." Once they start piling in and no scientific evidence comes to light, you're back to "meh." When they have gone on for years, you're going "aaaahhhh! Will you people shut up already? It ain't gonna happen!"

I said essentially the same thing to a friend the other day in casual conversation: "You know, if there have been thousands of sightings of something for years, then the lack of solid evidence is even more damning. I can understand getting excited after the first few sightings, but after a while you gotta figure it's a bunch of ********. Of course, the reason it persists is because people like talking about it, both for and against. Sort a like games of who would you do? in college, only in those games we all knew nobody would be doing anybody."

[fromdownunder]

UncaYimmy, an upside down Bell Curve works just fine.

I would cite Elvis sightings.

Norm

[Uncayimmy]

UncaYimmy, an upside down Bell Curve works just fine.

I would cite Elvis sightings.


There's some pretty solid evidence behind Elvis sightings. Take the example below:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_28160490fe20c8fe52.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=14228)

The picture is clear. The location is known (Alice Cooperstown in downtown Phoenix). The conditions are easily duplicated. There's no doubt that Elvis took this picture of me at a gig.

[A.A. Alfie]

There is a strange orange-like glow just past the inside of your left forearm.
It might be a yowie's reflective eye - or at the very least something paranormal.

[Night Walker]

Ok. Thank you for your time.

If I get any evidence I'll let you know. I know you guys won't be holding your breath for that but I do appreciate honest feedback.

Respect.

[Night Walker]

One more thing:

If any of you with a sceptical interest in yowies would like to participate in any investigations (e.g. interviewing alleged witnesses from future newspaper articles) in your local area send me a PM. I am willing and able to travel between Gympie and the Gold Coast to do so but that still leaves most of the east coast that I cannot easily access. You'd be able to nominate your preferred area for your own convenience.

I'd rather such things were examined by hard-nosed realists than dreamy-eyed believers...

Ed

[philkensebben]

<derail - fromdownunder - is your pic of the Western Plains Zoo in Dubbo?

[Akhenaten]

One more thing:

If any of you with a sceptical interest in yowies . . .



my bolding


I'd love to see a definition of this.

I think 'skeptical lack of interest' would be more accurate. As in, there's nothing to be interested in.

Except, as you've pointed out yourself, as a study into why people believe weird stuff.



. . . would like to participate in any investigations (e.g. interviewing alleged witnesses from future newspaper articles) in your local area send me a PM.





I hope you've cleared out your inbox, mate. I'm sure it's about to be flooded by all of the potential volunteer Yowie hunters here.



I am willing and able to travel between Gympie and the Gold Coast to do so but that still leaves most of the east coast that I cannot easily access. You'd be able to nominate your preferred area for your own convenience.





Professor Alfie and myself live in Melbourne, and Professor Norm appears to live in Dubbo or Peak Hill.

I'm not sure, but I don't think either of these are notorious Yowie-spotting areas.

In Gympie, however, there are few things that I woud doubt. For instance, many believe that the Gympie Pyramid was built by Yowies.



I'd rather such things were examined by hard-nosed realists than dreamy-eyed believers...

Ed


Already done, but you're still tryin' to convince us that we're too hard-nosed.


<derail - fromdownunder - is your pic of the Western Plains Zoo in Dubbo?





Speaking out of turn on Professor Norm's behalf, yes.

Speaking out of turn for everyone, don't sweat the derail thing. By convention, any thread with two or more Australians in it is automatically deemed to be a derail from Post #1 onwards.

[fromdownunder]

<derail - fromdownunder - is your pic of the Western Plains Zoo in Dubbo?

It's Werribee Park Open Range Zoo. I live in Lara, near Geelong (go catters! Premiers again in 2010)

Norm.

[Akhenaten]

It's Werribee Park Open Range Zoo. I live in Lara, near Geelong (go catters! Premiers again in 2010)

Norm.





I was close!

Right continent and everything!


When I first saw that pic, I thought, "That's funny, I thought Professor Norm was a Vic."

What's really embarrassing is that I've been to Werribee heaps (I like the Lions) and Western Plains a couple of times.

I have teh Dumb!


Apologies to Night Walker for the bum steer, and to yourself for thinkin' you were a cockroach.

As penance:



Go Catters!

[A.A. Alfie]

Only three flags in 50 years! And how many lost GFs?
Come talk to me when you are approaching double figures.
Cats. Yawn. Flash in the pan.

[Akhenaten]

I only did that to make up for insulting Professor Norm by thinking he was from New South.

I'm a Blue's man, which is probably even more embarrassing.

[fromdownunder]

Only three flags in 50 years! And how many lost GFs?
Come talk to me when you are approaching double figures.
Cats. Yawn. Flash in the pan.

And two in the last three years (Re: lost GFs, Principal Tamzarian let us never speak of this again). besides, to get back on topic, we have our very own resident Yowie - Moons....

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z191/fromdownunder_bucket/Moons.jpg

Norm

[fromdownunder]

I only did that to make up for insulting Professor Norm by thinking he was from New South.



I have friends in Nambucca Heads, and Macksville. I love the place. If I ever get up there again, I will ask them to take me Yowie hunting. Can't stand Sydney (or even Melbourne any more - commuted to, and worked there for over 30 years). Far too big for a Lara Lad.

Norm

[Akhenaten]

I hear ya! My city living days are long behind me.

By coincidence, I used to have rellos at South West Rocks. I imagine they're long dead by now, which is generally a good thing for rellos to be.

They had the Post Office there at one stage (it was just a little agency-type affair at the side of their house). Use to flood up to the bloody ceiling every other year, and it's the only place in Australia I've ever seen fresh-water crabs.

No Yowies, that I recall.

[Akhenaten]

And two in the last three years (Re: lost GFs, Principal Tamzarian let us never speak of this again). besides, to get back on topic, we have our very own resident Yowie - Moons....

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z191/fromdownunder_bucket/Moons.jpg

Norm





Snork :)

[King of the Americas]

Without reading the whole thread:

If "Bigfoot" doesn't exist, then why does EVERY continent have its own version...?

And not just modern people claim to have 'seen' them. You'd be hard pressed to find a culture 'close to nature' that does not contain such tales or myths, if that's what they are.

*NOT an attempt to derail the thread. Just wondering how "skeptics" respond to that argument.

[A.A. Alfie]

Stupid is international.

[King of the Americas]

Stupid is international.

No doubt about that...but is "blind" too?

[A.A. Alfie]

Actually that was pretty unkind of me. My point is I suppose that myths are not halted by borders, humanity is global and there are common threads of belief across all tribes, nations and continents.

There will always be belief based ideas that lack evidence, it is part of what we are.

[Marduk]

No doubt about that...but is "blind" too?

No thats Love
:p

[A.A. Alfie]

No doubt about that...but is "blind" too?

What do you mean "blind"?

[Marduk]

*NOT an attempt to derail the thread. Just wondering how "skeptics" respond to that argument.

The usual sceptic way of requiring at least some credible evidence
:rolleyes:

[fromdownunder]

Without reading the whole thread:

If "Bigfoot" doesn't exist, then why does EVERY continent have its own version...?

And not just modern people claim to have 'seen' them. You'd be hard pressed to find a culture 'close to nature' that does not contain such tales or myths, if that's what they are.

*NOT an attempt to derail the thread. Just wondering how "skeptics" respond to that argument.

Since you did not read the thread, you might want to note that on this thread, I have already noted that there are no Australian Aboriginal Dreamtime legends, nor post European occupation Aboriginal discussions regarding the Yowie. I have also made this comment before and on this and other threads about legendary exotics. I think I have done this more than once.

Perhaps, just maybe, possibly, you should do at least minimal (read the thread) research before butting in to something you know nothing about.

ETA The above is actually on this page, if you are running on 40 posts per page, so it appears that you did no read anything at all. Is this typical of you?

ETA again. There is not a single Aboriginal culture. The different cultures (and languages, and lifestyles) range over a huge continent, which never naturally contained a lot of people (until WE got here), simply because it could not contain a lot of hunter/gatherers. Limited resources, limited population, and at leat read my post on tracking, and the ability of Australian Aboriginals to find literally anything that would keep them alive.

Norm

[King of the Americas]

Since you did not read the thread, you might want to note that on this thread, I have already noted that there are no Australian Aboriginal Dreamtime legends, nor post European occupation Aboriginal discussions regarding the Yowie. I have also made this comment before and on this and other threads about legendary exotics. I think I have done this more than once.

Perhaps, just maybe, possibly, you should do at least minimal (read the thread) research before butting in to something you know nothing about.

ETA The above is actually on this page, if you are running on 40 posts per page, so it appears that you did no read anything at all. Is this typical of you?

ETA again. There is not a single Aboriginal culture. The different cultures (and languages, and lifestyles) range over a huge continent, which never naturally contained a lot of people (until WE got here), simply because it could not contain a lot of hunter/gatherers. Limited resources, limited population, and at leat read my post on tracking, and the ability of Australian Aboriginals to find literally anything that would keep them alive.

Norm

My apologies, really.

I was hoping for a singular answer, from THE bigfoot skeptic, and wasn't interested in getting into a long drawn out discussion.

The question struck me from another thread, about how different unconnected cultures had similar buildings of similar sizes.

I've heard similar stories about bigfoot, the world over-

They have many names:

Yeti, Almasti, Yeren, Yowie, Orang Kubu, Beruang Rambai, Orang Gadang, Zana, Ameranthropoides loysi, Mono Rei, Grey Man, rakshasa, meh-the, abominable snowman, Sasquatch, Jangali Mosh, Barmanu, Chuchunaa, wildman, Yahoo, Great Hair Moehau, Orang Dalam, Orang Sanat, kapre, waray-waray, orang gugu, beruang rambai, batutut, atu, sedapa, mawa, Malay, Sedapa, Momo, MacDhu, and Liath Mori.

[A.A. Alfie]

I've heard similar stories about bigfoot, the world over-

They have many names:

Yeti, Almasti, Yeren, Yowie, Orang Kubu, Beruang Rambai, Orang Gadang, Zana, Ameranthropoides loysi, Mono Rei, Grey Man, rakshasa, meh-the, abominable snowman, Sasquatch, Jangali Mosh, Barmanu, Chuchunaa, wildman, Yahoo, Great Hair Moehau, Orang Dalam, Orang Sanat, kapre, waray-waray, orang gugu, beruang rambai, batutut, atu, sedapa, mawa, Malay, Sedapa, Momo, MacDhu, and Liath Mori.

And it seems to me they can all be collectively placed under one name.
MYTH.

Especially the Yowie, which (as professor Norm has explained already) only found a voice after European settlement.

[fromdownunder]

The question struck me from another thread, about how different unconnected cultures had similar buildings of similar sizes.

I've heard similar stories about bigfoot, the world over-



Perhaps, as on that other thread, it is because logic dictated that these were better designs than ones which fell over, and somehow logic took over, and people started saying "let's build something that will stay up, and not collapse". Rinse and repeat - eventually you will find something (homo sapien sapien was not actually dumb) that does stay up - see Sprague de Camp's The Ancient Architects.

To stay close to topic (us Aussies are born to go off topic) there are also world wide myths about lake monsters (and oddly enough, the areas in which they are promoted attract a lot of tourists, but no actual evidence of lake monsters), so do you accept lake monsters (living pliosaurs (http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&ei=0h1uS_r6G43-tAOrg9yxDQ&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&ved=0CBMQBSgA&q=pliosaurs&spell=1)) as valid?

Norm

[King of the Americas]

Perhaps, as on that other thread, it is because logic dictated that these were better designs than ones which fell over, and somehow logic took over, and people started saying "let's build something that will stay up, and not collapse". Rinse and repeat - eventually you will find something (homo sapien sapien was not actually dumb) that does stay up - see Sprague de Camp's The Ancient Architects.

To stay close to topic (us Aussies are born to go off topic) there are also world wide myths about lake monsters (and oddly enough, the areas in which they are promoted attract a lot of tourists, but no actual evidence of lake monsters), so do you accept lake monsters (living pliosaurs (http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&ei=0h1uS_r6G43-tAOrg9yxDQ&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&ved=0CBMQBSgA&q=pliosaurs&spell=1)) as valid?

Norm

...I don't think numerous sightings throughout history excise the possibility...

[Akhenaten]

My apologies, really.

I was hoping for a singular answer, from THE bigfoot skeptic, and wasn't interested in getting into a long drawn out discussion.

The question struck me from another thread, about how different unconnected cultures had similar buildings of similar sizes.

I've heard similar stories about bigfoot, the world over-

They have many names:

Yeti, Almasti, Yeren, Yowie, Orang Kubu, Beruang Rambai, Orang Gadang, Zana, Ameranthropoides loysi, Mono Rei, Grey Man, rakshasa, meh-the, abominable snowman, Sasquatch, Jangali Mosh, Barmanu, Chuchunaa, wildman, Yahoo, Great Hair Moehau, Orang Dalam, Orang Sanat, kapre, waray-waray, orang gugu, beruang rambai, batutut, atu, sedapa, mawa, Malay, Sedapa, Momo, MacDhu, and Liath Mori.





Depends on whether it's an old, kinda traditional legend, like the Thunderbird in the States, or something that's just been made up in modern times.


In the case of the old myths, I can see it being something like the God of the Gaps. In other words, there were many, many things that they couldn't explain so they made up a creature to be responsible for all the bad stuff that went down. Like the God of the Gaps, as real knowledge increases, the bogeymen get smaller and smaller until either they or the people who sustain them disappear.

One of the critters missing from your list is a creature like this - the Bunyip - a creature from the Dreaming of SOME of the indigenous groups. As Professor Norm points out, Aboriginal culture is NOT homogenous throughout Australlia.


The Yowie is different though. It's a 'modern' European invention, prolly made up to scare kids or something by early settlers. It's not even a remotely Aboriginal-sounding word, and the local blokes think it's as much of a joke as we do.

People who claim Yowie encounters are, I reckon, broken up something like this:

Hoaxers and practical jokers out for lulz, and victims of same - 95%

People who saw something mundane but got a scare and either can't or won't (out of pride) admit it - 2%

Scammers - 1%

Morons - the rest%


Something like that.

[King of the Americas]

Sightings aren't "god of the gaps"...

Hoaxes maybe.

I don't know about your "good'ol boys down under", but if you rolled up on me and my brethren, in an ape suit and started tossing stones into camp from the darkness...you'd get some hot lead coming your way quick. Texans don't take kindly to be razzed by wildlife.

While there is proof that hoaxes have occurred, the danger in carrying out a full fledged one disallows me to accept your 95% number.

That said, I understand your argument, and no further discussion is necessary.

Be well, good man.

*Don't be afraid to shoot a hoaxer, we could end all such activity with a single round.

[fromdownunder]

Sightings aren't "god of the gaps"...

Hoaxes maybe.



So, and this is a serious question, what do you think of Dropbears?

Norm

[King of the Americas]

So, and this is a serious question, what do you think of Dropbears?

Norm

I am sorry. I am not familiar...

And, I am not equipped to partake in any real discussion, here. My question was answered to my liking, so I really don't have anything further. If you'd like to expound on a response to my question, I'd welcome whatever you offered. However, with no experience in bigfoot sightings or trips to Australia, I really have nothing to offer this discussion.

[Akhenaten]

Well said, KotA.

[EHocking]

Without reading the whole thread:

If "Bigfoot" doesn't exist, then why does EVERY continent have its own version...?

And not just modern people claim to have 'seen' them. You'd be hard pressed to find a culture 'close to nature' that does not contain such tales or myths, if that's what they are.

*NOT an attempt to derail the thread. Just wondering how "skeptics" respond to that argument.Firstly, a bit of hand waving here, 'cos I can't find an article on it.

But it has been put forward that the most common religious belief is not belief in an afterlife or reincarnation or redemption and such, but belief that personal bad luck is caused by malicious entities.

This is especially in the case of the "ancients", but still just as valid with any of the major religions at the moment, e.g. "this is the Devil's work".

So, humans, it seems have a prevalence of blaming misfortune on malicious entities. It doesn't take too much effort to imagine these entities anthropomorphised to some degree and you have wild men/women in the forest causing grief to everyone. Certainly this argument is backed by a plethora of sprites/imps and other entities causing problems right across (practically) all culture and ages.

[King of the Americas]

Firstly, a bit of hand waving here, 'cos I can't find an article on it.

But it has been put forward that the most common religious belief is not belief in an afterlife or reincarnation or redemption and such, but belief that personal bad luck is caused by malicious entities.

This is especially in the case of the "ancients", but still just as valid with any of the major religions at the moment, e.g. "this is the Devil's work".

So, humans, it seems have a prevalence of blaming misfortune on malicious entities. It doesn't take too much effort to imagine these entities anthropomorphised to some degree and you have wild men/women in the forest causing grief to everyone. Certainly this argument is backed by a plethora of sprites/imps and other entities causing problems right across (practically) all culture and ages.

Top that with the fact that there ARE "malicious entities" mucking about, I'm sure people jumped to unfounded conclusions.

Put a fresh baked pie on the window sill in black bear country, and see if the pie doesn't come up missing.

But again, you are making the "god of the gaps" argument. Actual sightings toss that rebuttal out.

I am sorry, I won't make any more arguments here, as I fear I am out of my area of expertise...

I'll listen/lurk though.

[EHocking]

Top that with the fact that there ARE "malicious entities" mucking about, I'm sure people jumped to unfounded conclusions.

Put a fresh baked pie on the window sill in black bear country, and see if the pie doesn't come up missing.Way to totally miss the point of a post.But again, you are making the "god of the gaps" argument.I suggest that you look up the definition of the phrase and then reread my post. Actual sightings toss that rebuttal out. What rebuttal? Again, try reading my previous post for comprehension.
I am sorry, I won't make any more arguments here, as I fear I am out of my area of expertise...You certainly didn't seem to comprehend the post you replied to...

[Akhenaten]

Yowies - Australia's Bigfoot

[Marduk]

Yowies - Australia's Bigfoot

who died and made you God,

ah yes, Amenhotep III
:p

[Akhenaten]

Yowies - Australia's Bigfoot

[Marduk]

Yowies - Australia's Bigfoot

is there a point to attempting to revive a thread which died on the first page ?

[A.A. Alfie]

But again, you are making the "god of the gaps" argument. Actual sightings toss that rebuttal out.

I am sorry, I won't make any more arguments here, as I fear I am out of my area of expertise...

I'll listen/lurk though.

There are no "actual sightings" of a Yowie in Australia.
There are only the confused and the hoaxers, both of which are easily explained or discredited.
Only this and nothing more...

is there a point to attempting to revive a thread which died on the first page ?

Because it fun taking the piss.
Have you ever hooked a fish and just played him? Taking two, three four times as long to land him, just for the sheer fun and skill of it? We Aussies love doing that. The we let them go with a kiss, no hard feelings.

[JcR]

Can a Yowie walk backwards?

[Akhenaten]

Can a Yowie walk backwards?





Only down Burke Street.

[Akhenaten]

There are no "actual sightings" of a Yowie in Australia.
There are only the confused and the hoaxers, both of which are easily explained or discredited.
Only this and nothing more...





Quoth the raven . . . nevermore.



Because it fun taking the piss.
Have you ever hooked a fish and just played him? Taking two, three four times as long to land him, just for the sheer fun and skill of it? We Aussies love doing that. The we let them go with a kiss, no hard feelings.





:)

[Lucian]

Do Yowies poop in the woods, and if so, where's the poop?

[JcR]

Do Yowies poop in the woods, and if so, where's the poop?
I wonder why wallabies have pouches.
Maybe any place might suffice.
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/283964b6f5627b9d28.jpg

[Akhenaten]

Do Yowies poop in the woods?





I think you may have had a dyslexic moment there.

Did you mean to ask, "Does the Poop yowie in the woods?"

Yes.



Where's the poop?





In Rome, as far as I know.

[Akhenaten]

I wonder why wallabies have pouches.
Maybe any place might suffice.
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/283964b6f5627b9d28.jpg





You bring up an interesting question. I wonder if Yowies are Marsupials.

That would be handy, because then they'd have their own pouches.

This might account for the strong odour reported by many witnesses too.

This science is pretty cool. stuff, eh?

[JcR]

You bring up an interesting question. I wonder if Yowies are Marsupials.

That would be handy, because then they'd have their own pouches.

This might account for the strong odour reported by many witnesses too.

This science is pretty cool. stuff, eh?

That is a very sound conclusion.

Dr. Meldrum please report back to your lab. You have a very urgent matter to attend to. Hello! You still with us Dr? ...I thought Blueberry season was over?

[Akhenaten]

It's Summer down here in the bottom half - Blackberry and pig-tossing season.

Yowies everywhere, in fact there's one just trying to ge

[JcR]

I heard the pigs down there are so venomous that even a "funnel web" can't hold a candle to it. Now what's this matter to a Yowie that wants to chuck something? The urgency to toss, overrides survival instincts.

[Lucian]

You bring up an interesting question. I wonder if Yowies are Marsupials.

That would be handy, because then they'd have their own pouches.

This might account for the strong odour reported by many witnesses too.

This science is pretty cool. stuff, eh?

One feels rather sorry for the baby Yowies.

[fromdownunder]

This thread is going downhill fast. And it started at the bottom of a cliff.

Norm

[A.A. Alfie]

Quoth the raven . . . nevermore.:)

Poe should have been an Aussie. He loved the sauce and might not have taken everything quite so seriously if he was.
I mean, imagine him with ABs wit.

I wonder why wallabies have pouches.
Maybe any place might suffice.
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/283964b6f5627b9d28.jpg

Reminds me of the Yowie and the Numbat having a poo in the woods.
"Does the poo stick to your fur?", asks the Yowie.
"Nope" replies the Numbat.
At which the Yowie scoops up the Numbat and wipes his arse with him.

And goes part way to explaining why we find no Yowie poo.

[Akhenaten]

I heard the pigs down there are so venomous that even a "funnel web" can't hold a candle to it. Now what's this matter to a Yowie that wants to chuck something? The urgency to toss, overrides survival instincts.





Damn straight they're venomous. The only way you can get through a whole BLT is by consuming a large quantity of the antidote before, during and after consumption.

Fortunately the antidote, a by-product of the Victoria Bitterweed, is widely available in the form of chilly Chunderchoobs.


One feels rather sorry for the baby Yowies.


That's exactly the way they want you to feel. We lose more Yowie researchers that way . . .


This thread is going downhill fast. And it started at the bottom of a cliff.

Norm





She's about bottomed out now I reckon, Professor Norm.

[Akhenaten]

Poe should have been an Aussie. He loved the sauce and might not have taken everything quite so seriously if he was.
I mean, imagine him with ABs wit.





Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing,
Doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream foreseen
But the silence was unbroken, and the darkness gave no token,
And the only word there spoken was the whispered word, `Doreen!'
This I whispered, and an echo murmured back the word, `Doreen!'

Merely this and nothing more.



Reminds me of the Yowie and the Numbat having a poo in the woods.
"Does the poo stick to your fur?", asks the Yowie.
"Nope" replies the Numbat.
At which the Yowie scoops up the Numbat and wipes his arse with him.

And goes part way to explaining why we find no Yowie poo.





NOW, she's bottomed out.

[JcR]

Reminds me of the Yowie and the Numbat having a poo in the woods.
"Does the poo stick to your fur?", asks the Yowie.
"Nope" replies the Numbat.
At which the Yowie scoops up the Numbat and wipes his arse with him.

And goes part way to explaining why we find no Yowie poo.

The Yowie not bothered with the Numbat's long sticky thingy...Tongue?
Helps explain the solitary nature of the Numbat.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_283964b6f7fd2496b5.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=18950)

ETA: I like joining in when things are at the bottom of the barrel.

[Akhenaten]

You excel, Cobber.

:)

[A.A. Alfie]

The Yowie not bothered with the Numbat's long sticky thingy...Tongue?
Helps explain the solitary nature of the Numbat.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_283964b6f7fd2496b5.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=18950)

ETA: I like joining in when things are at the bottom of the barrel.

Are your avatar girls um, available.
I always wanted to give a couple of Nazis a good going over.

What do they think of Numbats?

[fromdownunder]

Are your avatar girls um, available.


"All your Avatar are belong to us"

NOW it's bottomed out. The ultimate cliche.

Norm

[Akhenaten]

I think we've gone subterranean. They'll never find us down here.

[fromdownunder]

I, Norm, being of sound mind and body, will make one more attempt to get this thread back on track, by posting a couple of Yowie pictures. Both taken I might add from Werribee. The first is a couple of Giraffes looking at a petrified Yowie, and the second is my son, who actually participated in a Yowie hunt (and Yes, it was at Werribee - in the Mansion) and got a trophy. He is now married, so it tells you how long ago the pictures were taken

Here be the firmest Yowie evidence ever put forward by Man:

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z191/fromdownunder_bucket/Yowie2.jpg

Norm

[Akhenaten]

I'm going to have a cup of tea, a bex and a good lie down.

[fromdownunder]

I'm going to have a cup of tea, a bex and a good lie down.

Would you like to see the Yowie-Hippo?

Norm

[Akhenaten]

OK. I'm all better now :)

Fire away Professor Norm.

[JcR]

Are your avatar girls um, available.
I always wanted to give a couple of Nazis a good going over.

What do they think of Numbats?



http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/283964b705052c9f04.jpg
I think they are both taken... :)

[Audible Click]

I think we've gone subterranean. They'll never find us down here.

I may not have dug the hole but I'm looking down there with a flashlight and a pooper scooper. :D Keep up the good work, people.

[Akhenaten]

The way we're going, this thread will pop out on the other side of the Earth soon.

If you see it wandering around in North America, could you send it back. We don't want no steenkin' bigfeets corrupting our sweet, innocent little Yowies.

[JcR]

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_283964b706cddb74b9.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=18960)

A pouch for Garlic, can openers, toiletry needs. Would be great for the Bigfoot on this side.

ETA: Could be one hunched down below, on the sign post?

[Akhenaten]

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_283964b706cddb74b9.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=18960)

A pouch for Garlic, can openers, toiletry needs. Would be great for the Bigfoot on this side.

ETA: Could be one hunched down below, on the sign post?





I'm amazed at how quickly people are able to pick up even the advanced techniques of Yowie research, although I don't know how much of our work will be publised by the suppressives in that 'other' scientifical community.

You know, the one with actual scientists and stuff.

Poor NW tried so hard to get us to take the whole thing seriously, but it was just never going to happen.

I even tried to do it for a while, but you just can't. It's like trying to build an aircraft according to the design of a cargo cult and expecting to investigate its flight characteristics.

[JcR]

I'm amazed at how quickly people are able to pick up even the advanced techniques of Yowie research, although I don't know how much of our work will be publised by the suppressives in that 'other' scientifical community.

You know, the one with actual scientists and stuff.

Poor NW tried so hard to get us to take the whole thing seriously, but it was just never going to happen.

I even tried to do it for a while, but you just can't. It's like trying to build an aircraft according to the design of a cargo cult and expecting to investigate its flight characteristics.

I guess this sign would be more appropriate down there. It's on the way "to the other side" in some cargo container. This may fly?
Strap enough boosters to anything and it will... Well it will go somewhere.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_283964b70820d0a3ea.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=18963)

[Akhenaten]

You must be a rocket surgeon. Cool.

[JcR]

...I had to add the one I messed up. Some neurons split (Critical mass) somewhere upstairs..:)
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_283964b70892905113.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=18965)
This answer your Question if I am a Rocket Surgeon.

[Night Walker]

It doesn't bother me that you don't take it seriously. I acknowledge that there is no evidence other than what is misidentified, misrepresented, and fabricated so, obviously, it cannot really be argued otherwise. I'm not sure how seriously I take it but even the ongoing fakery and storytelling is interesting from a sociological point of view at the very least.

This year I will be starting a review called "The Naked Yowie Project" which aims to examine the yowie phenomenon as it is - fictions, fabrications, and all. I need people to investigate new alleged sightings in their area (Is there an area of bush along the east coast that doesn't claim any yowie sightings?) which, if the 2009 yowie stories in the media are any guide, will be more of an exercise in debunking. Debunking is important yet is an often neglected exercise. I would value any contributions which are accurate and honest.

It won't involve much of your time, will be providing a valuable database for current and future generations, and will be a bit fun. Will any here use their skills and knowledge for this interesting project?

[Laton]

Night Walker,

I posted this in another bigfoot thread here on JREF but it may be of use to you:

One I haven't seen mentioned is the idea that an experienced hunter wouldn't mistake another animal (say a bear) for a Bigfoot.

My experience:

About 10 years ago we were shooting on a property about 70km south of Canberra, now this particular farm was one that we had been camping/hunting on for nearly 20 years (I was 26 at the time), usually doing four, week-long trips a year out to it, so I knew the place extremely well.

On Sunday afternoon we had been walking along a boundary fence and spotted a few feral pigs in the crop paddock, but because of the direction the wind was blowing were unable to get into position to take a shot before they got our scent and took off into the bush that surrounded two sides of the farm.

I decided that the next day I would take head over to the same area before noon to get into a good position in case the pigs came back. The walk was about 3km and to get there I had to go over a low hill.

The hill itself was covered in sparse eucalyptus forest with some boulders and waist-high scrub near the top. It was a fine spring day, with an occasional light breeze.

About 30 meters from the top of the hill I glanced up at the boulders and froze - there looking back at me over the top of them was what I could only describe as a hair covered human face, probably about 7 or 8 feet off the ground .

At this point I'll pause and note that I'd always had a bit of a (skeptical) interest in Bigfoot and the Yeti, and knew about the Australian version: the Yowie and a few books in my library reported historical sightings in the Canberra region.

My first thought, apart from "Ahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!" , was "bloody hell, Yowies are real!" and seriously considered heading back the way I'd come at a high rate of knots.

Now if I had done that & told someone, the report would, I'm sure, have eventually been told as an experience hunter sighting a large hairy primate at close range and under good conditions.

What actually happened was I brought my rifle up and took a look through the 'scope (set to x6):

A kangaroo, happily chewing a mouthful of his lunch, looked placidly back at me.

The whole thing was an optical illusion caused by the play of light and shadow on the 'roos head, face and chest, combined with the viewing angle, backdrop and the 'roo standing on a rock ledge that I couldn't see from my vantage point making seem a lot taller than it was. A bit of background knowledge on yowies/bigfoot and some imagination did the rest

So there you go, someone with hunting experience over a large part of eastern Australia, who has seen kangaroos under all sorts of conditions mistaking one of the critters* for an 8 foot tall humanoid .

I'd say misidentifying a bear would be pretty easy.


*I still claim in my defense that it was a rather large kangaroo

[A.A. Alfie]

I deal with alcoholics day in an day out. I can smell BS from 50 miles.
I would love to interrogate help out if convenient.

[A.A. Alfie]

Night Walker,

I posted this in another bigfoot thread here on JREF but it may be of use to you:

What did the yowie taste like?

[Akhenaten]

...I had to add the one I messed up. Some neurons split (Critical mass) somewhere upstairs..:)
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_283964b70892905113.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=18965)
This answer your Question if I am a Rocket Surgeon.





I see. You are, in fact, a Melbourne taxi driver, or at least have a similar sense of direction.