StopSylviaBrowne: AC360 - Browne's Best Evidence?

[RSLancastr]

New article:

AC360: Sylvia Browne's Best Evidence? (http://www.stopsylviabrowne.com/articles/ac360_brownesbestevidence.shtml)

Anderson Cooper 360 examines evidence provided by Sylvia Browne of her psychic abilities.

[JLam]

You are devastatingly lucid and rational. Not to mention exceedingly fair.

You know, just once I'd like you to drop the c-word in one of your articles. Just once. Pretty please? ;) :p

[Flo]

Another excellent article, bravo !

After all this, you'd think the believers would start thinking ...

[CFLarsen]

Check with Sharon James if the phone reading was free.

[Reno]

Robert, you're like the posse that chased Butch Cassidy and the Sundance kid. You don't own a white skimmer hat do you?

[Soapy Sam]

Bob- a very minor quibble- on point 6, Ted Gunderson, you comment that this is an endorsement from someone who believes in Browne's (hypothetical) abilities.

This is circular. She will get no endorsement, by definition, from anyone else.

[Geckko]

One point on the Sharon James letter. YOu give Sylvia a 50/50 on saying her son would be found alive/return.

However, the information provided indicates that Ms James told Sylvia in her reading that her son had a history of disappearing and returning (on multiple occasions).

This clearly wasn't a 50/50 bet for Sylvia. Faced with the same call, I would tell the subject that her son would return/be found alive (yet again), expecting a better than 50% chance of being correct.

[clerihew80]

If you're looking for an entertaining read check out an interview with Sylvia Browne's FBI champion Ted Gunderson by typing "Ted Gunderson Interview TRACYRTWYMAN" in Google. (Sorry, can't post URL's)

Some choice bits:

1) Gunderson claims to have photos of George Bush Sr. sexually abusing children. These photos are inconveniently located in a cave in Colorado, under the care of a fellow named "Rusty."

2) Actor Chuck Norris was involved in the infamous McMartin preschool sexual abuse case (see Wikipedia).

3) The bodyguard of Hustler Magazine publisher Larry Flynt once attempted to assassinate Gunderson. Gunderson is apparently a marked man. He is the subject of constant harassment and surveillance. Fiendish CIA goons even tamper with the direction signal of his car!

4) Disneyland is a training ground for Satanic child kidnappers.

There's plenty more good stuff on the net about this loon. I've found that, allegedly, one of the reasons he was forced to retire from the FBI was for resorting to psychics too frequently!

[rjh01]

Here is the link referred to by Clerlhew80 http://tracyrtwyman.com/blog/?page_id=83

Edit If Ted Gunderson is right then CT is true + worse.

Two extra links would be good.
A link to the CNN web site would be good.

And a link to a CNN page that shows that the story run on January 19 2007, CNN's Anderson Cooper 360 show was what you said it was and not something you made up.

[Steven Howard]

Check with Sharon James if the phone reading was free.

From the transcript:

She paid $700 for her half-hour phone reading

[RSLancastr]

You are devastatingly lucid and rational. Not to mention exceedingly fair.Thank you sir.

You know, just once I'd like you to drop the c-word in one of your articles. Just once. Pretty please? ;) :p"Charlatan?" :)

Another excellent article, bravo !Thanks, Flo!

Check with Sharon James if the phone reading was free.Good idea.

Robert, you're like the posse that chased Butch Cassidy and the Sundance kid. You don't own a white skimmer hat do you?Not that I would admit to.

This is circular. She will get no endorsement, by definition, from anyone else.Thanks Sam, but I don't think it is circular. Redundant, perhaps. But someone can endorse some other aspect of Browne (such as her theology) yet not her "abilities." So I risked a little redundancy to make the point clearer. You may be right, but I think I'll lave it, warts and all.

This clearly wasn't a 50/50 bet for Sylvia. Faced with the same call, I would tell the subject that her son would return/be found alive (yet again), expecting a better than 50% chance of being correct.Understood, Geckko, thanks. There were several points like this in the article where I could have torn her predictions apart even further, but I left them alone, as the article was getting a bit lengthy, and I felt I had made my point anyway. Had the article been solely about that one reading, I would have gone into more detail, such as what you suggest.

If you're looking for an entertaining read check out an interview with Sylvia Browne's FBI champion Ted Gunderson by typing "Ted Gunderson Interview TRACYRTWYMAN" in Google.Thanks, clerihew! I have added that to the article.

Two extra links would be good.
A link to the CNN web site would be good.

And a link to a CNN page that shows that the story run on January 19 2007, CNN's Anderson Cooper 360 show was what you said it was and not something you made up.I added one to the Jan 19 show, thanks for the idea, rjh.

I don't understand the value of a link simply to CNN.com, though. What was your thought there?

[RSLancastr]

From the transcript:D'oh!! I will update the article, thanks!

[Questioninggeller]

You should point out, regarding Ted Gunderson, he retired before Browne "discovered" her purported abilities.

Thus, even if one wants to believe Gunderson, Browne and him never worked on a single case FOR the FBI.

[Lisa Simpson]

4) Disneyland is a training ground for Satanic child kidnappers.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=78451

Of course, we in the OC have known about the Satan/Disneyland link for a long time.

[CFLarsen]

From the transcript:

Ouch.

Not good, Sylvia. You're a lying c-word.

Robert,

Contact Linda Rossi and ask her how she can state on national TV something that clearly isn't true.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=78451

Of course, we in the OC have known about the Satan/Disneyland link for a long time.
*sigh* darned two-letter acronyms. Read the above, and since I'm in the middle of reading The Dragon and the Bear I read it as Organized Crime, not Orange County.

[humingbrd]

If you're looking for an entertaining read check out an interview with Sylvia Browne's FBI champion Ted Gunderson by typing "Ted Gunderson Interview TRACYRTWYMAN" in Google. (Sorry, can't post URL's)

There's plenty more good stuff on the net about this loon. I've found that, allegedly, one of the reasons he was forced to retire from the FBI was for resorting to psychics too frequently!


Gunderson seems willing to lend his "FBI investigator" status to any number of CT sites on the web. He's a valuable asset to the woo community.

[Blue Mountain]

When I go to the main forum page at http://forums.randi.org/index.php all the Stop Sylvia Browne threads show up simply as "StopSylviaBrowne ..." (all text following "StopSylviaBrowne" is replaced with "..."), making it difficult to differentiate one thread from another. I can often tell if it's a new thread by looking at when it was posted, but if it's an older one I can't.

Has anyone else noticed this, or is there an option I can tweak to see full thread titles on the home page?

Robert, could you perhaps prefix your articles with "SSB:" instead of the full "StopSylviaBrowne"?

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

When I go to the main forum page at http://forums.randi.org/index.php all the Stop Sylvia Browne threads show up simply as "StopSylviaBrowne ..." (all text following "StopSylviaBrowne" is replaced with "..."), making it difficult to differentiate one thread from another. I can often tell if it's a new thread by looking at when it was posted, but if it's an older one I can't.

Has anyone else noticed this, or is there an option I can tweak to see full thread titles on the home page?

Robert, could you perhaps prefix your articles with "SSB:" instead of the full "StopSylviaBrowne"?
How about StopSylvia? I suggest this as SSB is a common shortening for http://www.silverstrikebowling.com/ssb2/SSB/

[Questioninggeller]

When I go to the main forum page at http://forums.randi.org/index.php all the Stop Sylvia Browne threads show up simply as "StopSylviaBrowne ..." (all text following "StopSylviaBrowne" is replaced with "..."), making it difficult to differentiate one thread from another. I can often tell if it's a new thread by looking at when it was posted, but if it's an older one I can't.

Has anyone else noticed this, or is there an option I can tweak to see full thread titles on the home page?

Robert, could you perhaps prefix your articles with "SSB:" instead of the full "StopSylviaBrowne"?

Just hold your mouse over the name without clicking on it. It will reveal the content.

[RSLancastr]

You should point out, regarding Ted Gunderson, he retired before Browne "discovered" her purported abilities.

Thus, even if one wants to believe Gunderson, Browne and him never worked on a single case FOR the FBI.According to his web site, Gunderson retired in 1979.

Sylvia and Dal Brown had set up "The Nirvana Foundation" - and were doing "trance readings" and such - in 1974. I have a letter on Nirvana Foundation letterhead dated from 1976.

Contact Linda Rossi and ask her how she can state on national TV something that clearly isn't true.I'll pencil that in on my calendar, Claus.

Robert, could you perhaps prefix your articles with "SSB:" instead of the full "StopSylviaBrowne"?I won't change it to SSB, as that is a common abbreviation of another skeptical topic, Satya Sai Baba.

Perhaps I will use "StopSylvia" instead. I'll look into it!

[Senex]

I honestly believe you are doing a great service to society by being so unrelenting in exposing every piece of quackery that comes out of that evil woman's mouth -- but I am curious what made you choose this particular charlatan to spend your time on. Don't get me wrong, your website certainly comes up on web searches of Browne that someone who may wish to do quick research of her might find before forking over that $750/hour -- and your site should put them straight to the truth. Becoming the foremost resourse on one topic is better than being a good resourse for many topics. But why Sylvia Browne instead of John Edwards or another quack? I'm just curious.

Keep fighting the Darkside! (hehehe... Sylvia paid me to try to get you to use some of your energy exposing Star Wars mythology.) May the Force be with you!

[Minarvia]

Another great article! You covered all the questions that ran thru my mind when I saw those segments on AC, especially the one of if that is the cream of the crop of all her best evidence over decades. If Syl is sitting on some great evidence in her favour now would be the time for her to show it. But somehow I doubt it... : )

[Questioninggeller]

According to his web site, Gunderson retired in 1979.

Sylvia and Dal Brown had set up "The Nirvana Foundation" - and were doing "trance readings" and such - in 1974. I have a letter on Nirvana Foundation letterhead dated from 1976.


My mistake.

Have you emailed Gunderson about what cases he might have worked with Browne on?

[Blue Mountain]

I won't change it to SSB, as that is a common abbreviation of another skeptical topic, Satya Sai Baba.

Perhaps I will use "StopSylvia" instead. I'll look into it!

Well, when you start up StopSatyaSaiBaba.com, you could prefix those posts with SSSB: :p

Thanks for considering a change.

[JoeTheJuggler]

Well done! Also hooray for the Anderson Cooper 360 show!

I suggest when JREF goes after her, that they take out an ad in a national paper like the New York Times flat out calling her a liar. At the very least, she lies about not charging to help in missing person cases. The Hornbecks also said she offered to help them for a fee (after the Montel show where she famously said that Sean was dead and buried).

[clerihew80]

Have you emailed Gunderson about what cases he might have worked with Browne on?

I have. He hasn't replied yet.

Sylvia Browne said this (in response to Paul Kurtz's prodding) on her March 6, 2001 appearance on the Larry King show: "What, finding bodies, and World Trade Center with Ted Gunderson and all that?" This is a reference to the 1993 WTC bombing. Now, since Gunderson retired from the FBI in 1979, I consider it highly unlikely that he would have been working on that case! At that point, I believe he was working as a private investigator specializing in cases of alleged Satanic Ritual Abuse (in between appearances on Geraldo).

But, as Mr. Lancaster pointed out, Sylvia was active in the psychic community in the 1970s, and since there's (admittedly unsubstantiated) evidence that Gunderson was forced out of the FBI for using psychics, it's entirely possible that he used Sylvia during his tenure with the Bureau.

I'll be interested to see if I get any response to my e-mail. Gunderson strikes me as quite a paranoid chap, so he might judge any such queries to be part of some sort of Satanic government conspiracy. Getting on his bad side might not be a good idea. The title of one his books (available on Amazon) is "How To Locate Anyone, Anywhere, Without Leaving Your Home!"

Then again, he might respond for lack of anything better to do...

[Brown]

One point on the Sharon James letter. YOu give Sylvia a 50/50 on saying her son would be found alive/return.

However, the information provided indicates that Ms James told Sylvia in her reading that her son had a history of disappearing and returning (on multiple occasions).

This clearly wasn't a 50/50 bet for Sylvia. Faced with the same call, I would tell the subject that her son would return/be found alive (yet again), expecting a better than 50% chance of being correct.I would like to take this point and expand it with a slightly different flavor.

In so doing, I acknowledge taking an argument from Richard Dawkins's The God Delusion, and adapting it to the circumstances at hand. In The God Delusion, Dawkins cautions against assigning probabilities where evidence is scant either way. The evidence for the existence of a personal deity who interferes in personal affairs may be scant, and the evidence against such a deity may be equally scant. But that does not mean that the odds of such a deity existing are 50/50.

My point is not to argue religion or metaphysics or supernatural intervention. I merely mention Dawkins because his work inspired me to make the point.

Indeed, the point can be made without reference to any supernatural aspect. If we know that two football teams are to be matched against one another and we know that there can only be one of two possible outcomes (either one team will win the game or the other will win), it does not necessarily follow that each or either team has a fifty percent chance of winning. To make an intelligent estimate of probability, we would need to know more than just the fact that there are two possible outcomes.

In this case, as Geckko pointed out, there was evidence to suggest that, based upon past experience, one outcome was more likely than another.

Now, I make this point not so much as a criticism of the StopSylvia site, but as an observation that one must carefully evaluate the legitimacy of percentages assigned to various outcomes. Self-proclaimed psychics do this a lot, puffing up their numbers so as to boast greater success than they actually have. Accordingly, if we as skeptics think charlatans must be more honest when using percentages, then we must be more mindful when using percentages ourselves.

[rjh01]

<snip>
I added one to the Jan 19 show, thanks for the idea, rjh.

I don't understand the value of a link simply to CNN.com, though. What was your thought there?

Just in case someone does not know what CNN means. You give them their website and then they can find out anything from that.

Plus you are giving them a plug for allowing you to use their information. After all if someone uses your information should they link just to that page or to your website as well?

I am no expert on references so I could be wrong.

[RSLancastr]

I honestly believe you are doing a great service to society by being so unrelenting in exposing every piece of quackery that comes out of that evil woman's mouthThanks, Senex.

Becoming the foremost resourse on one topic is better than being a good resourse for many topics. But why Sylvia Browne instead of John Edwards or another quack? I'm just curious.When my previous (and first) skeptical web aite (www.StopKaz.com) was winding down - Kaz was either stopped or has gone into hibernation - people in this forum started asking me: who's next?

I was torn between a one-focus site and a site with various sections devoted to people (Browne, Edward, Benny Hinn, Kevin Trudeau, etc) who I felt needed "stopping." I was leaning toward the multi-focus site, but people in this forum convinced me of the strengths of the single-focus approach, as I had taken with Kaz.

I had narrowed it down to the four people mentioned above, but what pushed Browne to the top of the list was her "readings" for the families of missing people, particularly of missing children. Reading about the Opal Jo Jennings affair clinched it.

Another great article!Thanks, Minarvia!

If Syl is sitting on some great evidence in her favour now would be the time for her to show it. But somehow I doubt it... : )Please, no talk of Sylvia showing what she is sitting on. :boggled:

Have you emailed Gunderson about what cases he might have worked with Browne on?No.

Thanks for considering a change.Okay!

Well done! Also hooray for the Anderson Cooper 360 show!Thanks, and indeed yes.[/QUOTE]

I have. He hasn't replied yet.Please let us know if/when he does.

Sylvia Browne said this (in response to Paul Kurtz's prodding) on her March 6, 2001 appearance on the Larry King show: "What, finding bodies, and World Trade Center with Ted Gunderson and all that?" This is a reference to the 1993 WTC bombing. Now, since Gunderson retired from the FBI in 1979, I consider it highly unlikely that he would have been working on that case!Interesting...

I would like to take this point and expand it with a slightly different flavor.Thanks Browne. I will keep your caution in mind.

Just in case someone does not know what CNN means. You give them their website and then they can find out anything from that.Well, they can easliy get to it from either of the transcript links, if they are curious.[/QUOTE]At least, that's my take on it. But thanks for the suggestion!

[Brown]

Thanks Browne. I will keep your caution in mind.Ack! I've been shamed!! I feel so dirty! Who would have thought that adding a silent "e" to my name could slap my ego so?

(Just kiddin'.)

[Senex]

I was torn between a one-focus site and a site with various sections devoted to people (Browne, Edward, Benny Hinn, Kevin Trudeau, etc) who I felt needed "stopping." I was leaning toward the multi-focus site, but people in this forum convinced me of the strengths of the single-focus approach, as I had taken with Kaz.

I'm usually against cloning, but I wish you were also able to run a StopBennyHinn site as well. He aggravates me the most. That SOB wears his whiite suit and pretends to heal people in huge venues and then he goes to Africa as part of his "Crusade." Sylvia takes peoples money $750 at a time, but this guy empties entire inheritances. I helped send someone strapped to a gurney to one of his meetings because his mom insisted and I had no choice but look like an ass if I refused. I knew darn well he wouldn't be healed but I vowed to break Benny's nose someday.

I won't get a chance but I wish someone will.

[RSLancastr]

Ack! I've been shamed!! I feel so dirty! Who would have thought that adding a silent "e" to my name could slap my ego so?

(Just kiddin'.)I swear it was accidental! Or maybe subconscious...

Yeah, I type it with an "e" so many times a day, it's difficult to type it without one... :o

I'm usually against cloning, but I wish you were also able to run a StopBennyHinn site as well.One at a time!

[clerihew80]

I managed to obtain a copy of Sylvia Browne’s book “Insight: Case Files From The Psychic World” at my local library. There’s an interesting final chapter titled “Crimes and Missing Persons” in which Browne offers up some apparent success stories in missing persons cases (most of which seem to be unverifiable).

Here’s an excerpt relevant to Gunderson and the WTC bombing with my commentary in parentheses:


“On February 26, 1993, a Ryder truck rumbled into the underground parking garage of the North Tower of New York City’s World Trade Center. At 12:17 P.M. the fifteen hundred pounds of explosives hidden inside the truck were detonated, killing six people, injuring more than a thousand and putting a shocking end to the American myth that terrorists only attack on foreign soil.

“My friend Ted Gunderson at the FBI, with whom I’d worked on other cases, called me after three of the bombers, all Islamic terrorists, had been arrested. Ted had learned to trust me and my information over the years, and knew I would never delude myself into believing that I’m smarter than the FBI; I’m just one of many alternative investigative tools at their disposal.”

(Note that she simply identifies him as “Ted Gunderson at the FBI.” There is no indication whatsoever that at that point Gunderson had been retired from the Bureau for 14 years! Also note that she was called in after three suspects (including Mohammed Salameh) were already in custody. Called in by who? Gunderson? The FBI? Or was Gunderson still affiliated with the FBI in some capacity?)

“Ted’s FBI intelligence prevented him from being even slightly surprised when I assured him that there were five, maybe six men involved in the attack, not just the three in custody. I was formally interviewed by the FBI on March 16, 1993.

(Browne doesn’t mention that Salameh was charged on March 4. As The Anderson Cooper Show pointed out, Salameh’s name was all over the news in the days prior to March 16.)

“The FBI ultimately arrested a total of six Islamic terrorists for the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center. They were convicted in 1997 and 1998 and sentenced to an average of 240 years each for their crimes. Among them was a short, wiry man with black hair and thick black eyebrows named Mohammed A. Salameh. I was off by a few letters here and there, but when Ted called to tell me about Salameh’s arrest, I was so thrilled I may have shattered poor Ted’s eardrum when I involuntarily shouted, ‘You’ve got him!’”

(This makes it seem like Salameh was arrested as a result of Browne’s interview. This is simply not true.)



What I want to know is who was Sylvia interviewed by? Was Gunderson working for the FBI? I consider this highly unlikely. Why? Because according to Gunderson, the FBI was behind the bombing! This quote is from an article on his website, written by the man himself, titled “The Phony War on Terrorism”:

“On February 26, 1993, a car bomb destroyed portions of the World Trade Center in N.Y.C., the F.B.I. not only knew in advance of the bombing, they furnished the ingredients for the bomb.”

Does this sound like a man the FBI would involve in the investigation?

[Minarvia]

Thanks, Clerihew80. That's quite some info to chew over! Settling the Gunderson questions regarding Syl will perhaps make for another splendid article, methinks.

[ChristineR]

Hmm. I just checked, and my local library has a great deal of Browne. I don't really feel like reading any of it for fun, but if someone is looking for something in a book that they don't have handy, feel free to ask.

[SRW]

A google of Sylvia Browne, gets StopSylviaBrowne in the 4 position, just after a very unflattering:
Wikipedia (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=3&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FSylvia_ Browne&ei=BdoRRsznFYu-hAPZ-s3-AQ&usg=__NeyEbACtkKr3Kv_3cRV2fj0MSHg=&sig2=z60GlPQ8yFFzqPh0W1OVJA) article. Wasn't there going to be a big media push this week to flatten her?

[rjh01]

Further there are only 3 positive sites on the first page and 7 negative. All 3 positive sites are ones selling her stuff. A little better on the second page. But most of the positive ones are selling her books or shows. Only two of them are not in that category. Three others are negative towards her.

How soon before she is history?

[Questioninggeller]

This is a sad video with Browne:

tXhPR9wRS_o

[RSLancastr]

Here’s an excerpt relevant to Gunderson and the WTC bombing with my commentary in parentheses:Good find clerihew, thanks! This will definitely make it into an article at some point.

Hmm. I just checked, and my local library has a great deal of Browne. I don't really feel like reading any of it for fun, but if someone is looking for something in a book that they don't have handy, feel free to ask.I'll keep that in mind Christine, thanks.

Wasn't there going to be a big media push this week to flatten her?I don't know what Randi hs up his sleeve, nor when it will be announced.

How soon before she is history?:)

This is a sad video with Browne:Very sad. And angering.

[rjh01]

This is a sad video with Browne:

tXhPR9wRS_o

The video does not appear to work here. The owner does not allow this type of link. I will try to fix it.

Edit - try using this link instead http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXhPR9wRS_o

Edit2 - If you want to see all the videos on her see http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=search_videos&search_query=sylvia%20browne&search_sort=relevance&search_category=0&page=1
Medical treatment may be required after viewing all the videos.

[Cactus Wren]

There's more information about Ted Gunderson in this Skeptical Inquirer article (http://www.csicop.org/si/9609/conspiracy.html) about a conspiracy-theorist conference:

Gunderson presented what he called "new evidence" in the 1984 McMartin preschool sex-abuse case in Manhattan Beach, California. He produced a number of photographs of the foundation of a house in the hills above San Bernadino, California, that had burned down, he claimed, the night the charges were filed in the McMartin case. He alleged that the McMartin children were flown to this house and ritually abused, and that the house was torched to destroy evidence. The sum total of the evidence he presented to support this allegation was the existence of spray-painted satanic graffiti on the foundation stones and on boulders on the property.

[ ... ]

Gunderson then described a conversation he had with a witness, Paul Bonacci, from an alleged satanic-ritual abuse case in Nebraska ... Gunderson related Bonacci's description of a slave auction in Las Vegas in which 25 to 30 vans pulled up, airplanes landed, and foreign men with turbans bought children and took them away. According to Gunderson: "Nobody knows what happened to those kids. They use them for several things: body parts, they use them for sacrificing, for sex slaves. But this is a big market. Does anybody have any idea what a blue-eyed, blond-haired eleven- or twelve-year girl would sell for? Fifty thousand dollars."

[chillzero]

Robert,
Small correction.

you said:
I have not been able to determine whether or not Browne's description ("sort of square... facing left") is correct,

but the actual location was:
(Sylvia) Browne: If I were to take a helicopter straight up and look at this part, which makes sort of a square – if I were facing west,

[wahrheit]

This is a sad video with Browne:

tXhPR9wRS_o

And, as usual, critical comments do not get approved or published, only dumb praise for $ylvia is allowed.


This new article is another excellent addition to your website, Robert. :eusa_clap:

[clerihew80]

Something else has caught my attention while reading Sylvia's book "Insight." In Chapter 2, "My Psychic History," she produces a validation from one William Yabroff, Ph. D, a former psychology professor at the University of Santa Clara. (Browne describes him as an "open-minded skeptic," which I take to mean an academic who believes in her.) "Many, many years ago," Yabroff performed a test on Francine. He read the names of twenty deceased patients from his and his colleagues' archives. Sylvia's spirit guide was able to identify the cause of death of all twenty. (By the way, as far as I can tell, Sylvia never takes credit for anything. She attributes everything to Francine and/or God.)

Anyway, what's interesting is the way she finishes the story, with this paragraph:

"While Bill never published the details and results of that test, he did take it upon himself to write a letter 'to whom it may concern' before that particular encounter with Francine even happened. I've kept it for all these decades (my apologies that the date on the letter is no longer legible) and proudly reprint it here as one more thank-you to William Yabroff, Ph.D."

Why didn't Yabroff publish the test results? And how come the only validation she has from him was written before the test? Didn't he write or say anything about Sylvia afterwards? If it really was such an astounding success, you'd think he'd have said something. And why aren't we told when this test took place? OK, the printing on the letter wore off, so tell us the date Sylvia! Hell, just give us a decade! All she offers is "many, many years ago." This whole story is fishy as hell...



I typed "William Yabroff" in Google and the only interesting thing I found was this comment, posted on some aol messageboard:

Submitted on Jul 08, 2003 at 20:32 by William Yabroff, Ph.d
Email williamyabroff1@mac.com,
Web Page .

I enjoyed reading your stimulating articles on the website. "Beyond Creativity" was a very important book for me, and helped me break through the kind of rationalism that keeps academics imprisoned in the known and the accepted. I look forward to reading more of your work with a similar expectation and wish to thank you for your current website.

[JeffJ]

This is a sad video with Browne:

tXhPR9wRS_o

I've seen this one already, but just had to say that she is just such an idiot. The guy was stabbed 17 times (I believe in around the head/neck area?) and Sylvia say's "He didn't know what hit him."
Yeah Sylvia, I think perhaps he had just a bit of an idea that he was being repeatedly stabbed? :rolleyes:

And I love how Sylvia "thinks" everything: She "thinks" the son is just interpreting that his father is mad, etc, etc...
Shouldn't she be doing less "thinking" and more "knowing"?
Either way... her voice makes it barely listenable. Could not be more irritating.

:applause: And great job with your previous post regarding the WTC and Gunderson and the questions you bring up. :)

[alfaniner]

You'll know you're really being successful when...

someone starts a site called www.stoprobertlancaster.com.

(Not to give anyone any ideas!)

[Beady]

I typed "William Yabroff" in Google and the only interesting thing I found was this comment, posted on some aol messageboard:



I guess it depends on what you consider "interesting":

William Yabroff recently retired from the graduate faculty of Santa Clara University and the Fielding Institute. He has extensive experience training clinicians and other health professionals in the therapeutic use of imagery and symbol throughout the country. He has also long been a serious student of psychological type, and served as APT Research & Theory Interest Area Coordinator. While at Santa Clara University, he conducted a six year pioneering research project exploring the use of personal inner symbols for type development. This culminated in his book, The Inner Image: A Resource for Type Development, published by Consulting Psychologists Press. He further authored a combination workbook and cassette package titled "Images of Inner Wisdom," and an article about type imagery for the Journal of Psychological Type. He and Karen Keefer are currently preparing a revised workbook and CD package of type imagery journeys, to be released at the APT conference in Portland this coming summer.

[Kilgore Trout]

The local library here also has several of Browne's books (including one I found particularly offensive, a children's book "Animals On the Other Side"). I'll look things up too, if needed. Actually, I'm nearly done with my book by Feynman. To balance out all that fun and rationality, maybe I'll pick up a book by Sly... It'll be an interesting test to see how much I can stomach, sort of like eating goldfish or finding out how many stab wounds I can handle.

[boojum]

You'll know you're really being successful when...

someone starts a site called www.stoprobertlancaster.com.


Well, the Sylvia woos already started:

http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/stoprobert

They got seven signatures.

Here's the text from the petition:


"Examining and debunking the claims of purported psychic Sylvia Browne."

STOP http://www.stopsylviabrowne.com/!

This is what the website claims. What seems to be the case here is a man (Robert S. Lancaster) who says he is against Sylvia Browne. The truth: he is trying to stop faith. Novus Spiritus is a practiced religion started by Sylvia Browne. He is trying to criticize and stop a religion. I don't believe in sins, but I believe in evil. Evil is people who try to take faith away.

He claims that Sylvia Browne is a phony, but then states that he has only read one book and on the process of reading another. How can you fight something you don't know about?

His claims are ridiclous! He knows nothing about Novus Spiritus!:

"Believes that everyone goes to heaven, which they call 'the other side'"

That is his statement. The truth (as Sylvia claims): Every religion goes to heaven, dark energies go elsewhere.
Although, Robert S. Lancaster wouldn't know that. Even if he has read ONE book!

He has raved about Sylvia Browne taking faith from ideas by The DaVinci Code. Although, Sylvia Browne was here a lot longer than that movie/book (Dumbass? Yes).

I can continue with the reasons why this man should be stop. But I'll stop. Why? Because I don't need to convince people like he needs to. I don't need to stray people from their faith. Leave our faith alone, leave Sylvia Browne alone, and SHUT DOWN YOUR WEBSITE!!! LEAVE US ALONE! STOP COMPARING US TO CHRISTIANITY

[Wowbagger]

Robert,
I have read the bulk of articles on your StopSylviaBrowne site, over the past couple of months. If I had more time, I would rave and praise the glory of each one, in elegant detail!

But, I will have to summarize by saying: You are a model for how all journalism should be done! When people ask me what skeptical investigation is all about, I'll give 'em your sites!

[Questioninggeller]

You'll know you're really being successful when...

someone starts a site called www.stoprobertlancaster.com.

(Not to give anyone any ideas!)

That would not be a wise move by the Browne camp. Robert is not a public figure.

[Miss Anthrope]

Well, the Sylvia woo's already started:

http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/stoprobert

They got seven signatures.

Here's the text from the petition:

I suspect Heather Brown has the intellectual maturity of a seventh grader. This stuff is so junior high.

[boojum]

I suspect Heather Brown has the intellectual maturity of a seventh grader. This stuff is so junior high.

As far as I know Heather has nothing to do with the petition above, but I do agree that Heather and her posters, as well as the folks who signed the petition, seem juvenile.

[humingbrd]

Well, the Sylvia woos already started:

They got seven signatures.

Here's the text from the petition:

Having watched the fight between CoS and Anti-Scientologists over the years, I can't help but notice how similar Browne's tactics are to Hubbard's:


ISSUE II-
Confidential

BATTLE TACTICS


"If you uniformly apply the tactics and strategy of battle to the rows we get into, press or legal or public confrontation, you will win."



"One cuts off enemy communications, funds, connections. He deprives the enemy of political advantages, connections and power. He takes over enemy territory. He raids and harrasses. All on a thought plane - press, public opinion, governments, etc."



"Capture and use his comm lines. A press magnate on your side is a big win."

"We will make it all the way providing we look on this in terms of active battle and not as a "if we are saintly good we will win". The people who win wars have a saintly image but they win the war by clever and forceful use of the rules of tactics, strategy and battle."
L. Ron Hubbard
Founder


LRH:bw
Copyright (c) 1969
by L. Ron Hubbard
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

[grayman]

People will do anything to cause an uproaranymore. He wont be doing this if he has everlooked at the wonderful things Sylvia has done.She has brought joy and inspirations to others.

Such as...?


People need to leave this woman alone! Let her beas she is giving many many people around the worldsomething to believe in. She is giving them faith.She is putting out a religion that doesn't putout a cult mentality on its followers. She is justspreading her ideas to those that they appeal to.If someone doesn't want to listen, no one isforcing them. This is just one more way someonecame up with to pick a fight. Just my two centsthough..

Evidence?

[ChristineR]

I saw that petition. I'm still waiting to hear:

What are they petitioning for?
Whom are they petitioning to ?

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Speaking of books, when I first heard about StopSylviaBrowne.com (I was reading the forum and the commentary way before I started posting) I stopped at my local branch of the NYPL to see what books of Sylvia's they had.

They had about a dozen at my branch under Non-Fiction, right next to books on Nostradamus, ghost-hunting, palm-reading, New Age and fortune-telling.

The Dewey decimal system needs a little re-classification. I'd put them all in Adult Fiction.

[RSLancastr]

There's more information about Ted GundersonThan ks, CW!

Robert,
Small correction.Actually, it is correct.

So long as you read it while facing north.

Thanks for the catch!

This new article is another excellent addition to your website, Robert. :eusa_clap:Thanks, Warheit!

I typed "William Yabroff" in Google and the only interesting thing I found was this comment, posted on some aol messageboard:Thanks for the research!

Yeah Sylvia, I think perhaps he had just a bit of an idea that he was being repeatedly stabbed? :rolleyes:Probably an inkling.

The local library here also has several of Browne's books (including one I found particularly offensive, a children's book "Animals On the Other Side").Yeah, someone recently donated that one to me. Yeesh. I seem to recall Randi discussing it in one of his commentaries when it came out. Not only is it offensive, but I had friends back in high school who could draw better than whoever illustrated the book.

Also, if you read the reviews for the book on Amazon.com, a fair number are from Sylvia fans who were angry that the book was essentially a children's book, and had not been advertised as such.

I'll look things up too, if needed.I appreciate it, thanks!

Well, the Sylvia woos already started:

http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/stoprobertYes, it was started last week, I believe by someone from the "Psychic Sylvia Browne" discusion board on MySpace.

I have read the bulk of articles on your StopSylviaBrowne site, over the past couple of months. If I had more time, I would rave and praise the glory of each one, in elegant detail!Thanks WB, you're very kind.

That would not be a wise move by the Browne camp. Robert is not a public figure.:(

I suspect Heather Brown has the intellectual maturity of a seventh grader. This stuff is so junior high.I don't think she had anything to do with the petition.

As far as I know Heather has nothing to do with the petition above, but I do agree that Heather and her posters, as well as the folks who signed the petition, seem juvenile.The signers all seem to be pretty young, as are most of the people in the MySpace forum which I believe spawned the petition.

Forget it, Jake. It's MySpace...

As for Heather Brown, she has actually said some surprisingly nice things about me on her forum, and has discouraged some of the trash talking about me. She also deleted that one (parody) post which was particularly nasty.

Having watched the fight between CoS and Anti-Scientologists over the years, I can't help but notice how similar Browne's tactics are to Hubbard's:Yes, the more I learn about Novus Spiritus, the more parallels to Scientolgy I see.

I saw that petition. I'm still waiting to hear:

What are they petitioning for?
Whom are they petitioning to ?Yeah, it does seem to be lacking in a few crucial details.

The Dewey decimal system needs a little re-classification. I'd put them all in Adult Fiction.I won't even say where I'd file them.

[Questioninggeller]

:(


That wasn't a slam on you. Someone cannot just start defaming a non-public figure because they want to.

See: http://www.expertlaw.com/library/personal_injury/defamation.html

Browne would open herself to litigation if she ordered her followers to start a website attacking you for a vendetta.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

I once had a book of hers from a woo-woo friend who gave it to me as a birthday gift. I recycled it and used the Masaru Emoto one she gave me as campfire fuel when I went to Yellowstone :D . So it did make a useful contribution to the world after all!

[Minarvia]

That wasn't a slam on you. Someone cannot just start defaming a non-public figure because they want to.

See: http://www.expertlaw.com/library/personal_injury/defamation.html

Browne would open herself to litigation if she ordered her followers to start a website attacking you for a vendetta.


I wonder, tho, if Robert falls into the "involuntary" or "limited" public figure examples? If so, things may get nasty for him. I certainly hope not.

[FramerDave]

Well, the Sylvia woos already started:

http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/stoprobert

They got seven signatures.

Here's the text from the petition:

Make that eight.

Exactly what do they hope to accomplish with this? Who will they send the petition to?

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

To Robert? Only thing that petition could do is make someone shrug and write back "Make me!".

[Questioninggeller]

I wonder, tho, if Robert falls into the "involuntary" or "limited" public figure examples? If so, things may get nasty for him. I certainly hope not.

A webmaster as a "involuntary public figure" would be a stretch. However, more than one TV appearance would probably make him into a "public figure," according to #3:

The U.S. Supreme has established some guidelines on who constitutes a public figure:
(1) Involuntary Public Figure: become public figure through no purposeful action of their own, including those who have become especially prominent in the affairs of society;
(2) Always Public Figures: those who occupy position of such persuasive power and influence that they are deemed public figures for all purposes;
(3) Public Figures on Specific Issues: "those who have thrust themselves to the forefront of particular public controversies in order to influence the resolution of the issues involved."

http://www.abbottlaw.com/defamation.html

It's a little hard to argue, at least now, that Robert is at "the forefront of particular public controversies in order to influence the resolution of the issues involved." Right now he is basically just a webmaster supplying information about a public figure.

[grayman]

Make that eight.

Exactly what do they hope to accomplish with this? Who will they send the petition to?

Yes, but read the name of the eighth signer aloud. ;) heh heh heh

[wahrheit]

It's a little hard to argue, at least now, that Robert is at "the forefront of particular public controversies in order to influence the resolution of the issues involved." Right now he is basically just a webmaster supplying information about a public figure.

"Just a webmaster supplying information?" :eusa_naughty:

Are you kidding? :curse

He's da man, someone who really makes a difference, imho. :wackynotworthy:


Disclaimer: I know perfectly well what you intended to say, let alone the fact that you were talking legal stuff. I was just kidding. I know you are also one of the guys (?) like Robert who actively do research and put in a lot of work to educate people about scam artists like $aliva.

[clerihew80]

It's a little hard to argue, at least now, that Robert is at "the forefront of particular public controversies in order to influence the resolution of the issues involved." Right now he is basically just a webmaster supplying information about a public figure.

Considering that it was his website that broke the Shawn Hornbeck story, which resulted in the Anderson Cooper expose; and considering that, rather than just disinterestedly supplying information, he actively denounces her on television, radio and on the net, I think he meets the criteria for Article 3 quite nicely.

If you were asked "who's at the forefront of Sylvia Browne criticism?" I think you'd have to answer "Robert Lancaster and James Randi", wouldn't you?

[Almo]

Great article, dude! :D

[boojum]

I'm getting a little curious about the petition at http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/stoprobert now. Since I mentioned it here, a few more (largely skeptical) remarks have been added.

What I'm curious about is this message:

If you have a comment, your signature will not be posted automatically until the owner of this petition approves your comment. If you want your signature to go live immediately, you do not need to put any comment.

at the bottom of page over there.

If the statement above is true and the petition creator is actually letting skeptical comments through, then I commend her for her fairness. (Being the skeptical ol' bastard that I am I suspect that she has mis-configured her petition and that comments are going up automatically....)

[Almo]

WTF is up with her voice? She must be a smoker. How can people trust this wench? I really don't get it. And I don't mean why do people trust her when she's a smoker or because of her voice. Just why.

[rjh01]

OK which one of you is Barry Saxalby? This is his comment.


All religious faith's are a disease of mankind's childhood. The quicker we are rid of religious faith and superstition the better. Perhaps then we will will have a brave new world based on the reality of science, and not one cluttered with gods, demons and fairies.



And who did this?

To "Katrina Hernandez",

You just said the following:
"I can continue with the reasons why this man should be stop. But I'll stop. Why? Because Idon't need to convince people like he needs to. I don't need to stray people from their faith.!!!"

So if you"don't need to convince people" then why are you trying so hard to convince them by forming this petition and trying to stop SSB.com?

Here's a tip: Sylvia Browne is a lying, nasty, fraudulent and bad person.

As long as she's alive there will always be people and websites devoted to stopping her.

Learn to accept that fact. They're doing it for your own good,believe it or not. They actually care more about you than that lying fraud Sylvia Browne will ever care about you or any of the vulnerable people she thieves money from.

$750 per half hour phone "reading"?!!!!!

She's disgusting and you should be embarrassed by your support of this uncaring,charlatan thief who would charge grieving people money they can't possibly afford... but which they scrape up just to hear that witches lies.

StopSylviaBrowne!!!

signed,
Michael Devlin. (And thanks Sylvia for keeping the cops away from me for four years!!) : )
(minor changes to fix spelling)

[clerihew80]

WTF is up with her voice? She must be a smoker.

According to Sylvia's book "Insight":

"I've only experienced one addiction, and I have no intention of trying to overcome it: I'm a learning junkie. I love school, I love studying, I love research. I even love the fact that the more I learn, the more I find I don't know." (Pg. 27)

She then gives a glorious account of her days at "San Francisco University," where she was immersed in Sartre, Joyce and Bertrand Russell. (Yeah, right!!!)

[RSLancastr]

That wasn't a slam on you.I know. I just like using the sad smiley every once in a while.

I wonder, tho, if Robert falls into the "involuntary" or "limited" public figure examples? If so, things may get nasty for him. I certainly hope not.I'm not particularly worried about it, Minarvia.

If you were asked "who's at the forefront of Sylvia Browne criticism?" I think you'd have to answer "Robert Lancaster and James Randi", wouldn't you?Randi has been tirelessly battling this sort of nonsense for decades, and Browne herself for at least a decade. I've had the site since November. I think you have the names in the wrong order, clerihew. But I do appreciate the compliment.

Great article, dude! :DWoah! Thanks, dude! :D

WTF is up with her voice? She must be a smoker.Funny thing, that. She evidently claims that she does not smoke. Yet people who know her say she chain smokes.

She then gives a glorious account of her days at "San Francisco University," where she was immersed in Sartre, Joyce and Bertrand Russell. (Yeah, right!!!)I'll have to give that one a read!

[Steven Howard]

She then gives a glorious account of her days at "San Francisco University," where she was immersed in Sartre, Joyce and Bertrand Russell. (Yeah, right!!!)

Suppose a particular psychic lies to people if and only they don't lie to themselves. Does she lie to herself?

[articulett]

I love the petition. Woos are so cute when they're angry. It must be a bummer that faith is so useless. Why aren't they just engaging their spirit guides to stop Robert and his slow but steady stream of facts?

Robert, you faith killer, you.

Rock on.

[Pipirr]

Apparently the guy from Lost has started a petition in support of RSL. http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/stopslyvia

Some of the other petitions on the front page there are really quite funny:

I petition that horses be farmed again for delicious tasty meat

Stop Craigslist from selling expired carseats

and my favorite:
Global Warming is a serious act that we need to start helping!

'cos it's cold here?

[Almo]

And, as usual, critical comments do not get approved or published, only dumb praise for $ylvia is allowed.


This new article is another excellent addition to your website, Robert. :eusa_clap:

Yup.

We should all comment. Make sure he has too much to read through.

Just added this comment:

And to whomever is editing these comments... You must know Silvia is a charlatan. Or you'd let conflicting comments be displayed, as her talent would speak for itself. Shame on you.