Something odd about Lt. Col. Guy S. Razer

[ref]

Yet another military person has come out to support the truth movement.

http://www.911blogger.com/node/7482

Lt. Col. Guy S. Razer, MS, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Retired U.S. Air Force fighter pilot (F-111, F-15E, F-16, B-1, F-18, Mig-29, and Suu-22). Flew combat missions over Iraq. Former instructor at the USAF Fighter Weapons School and NATO’s Tactical Leadership Program.

After 4+ years of research since retirement in 2002, I am 100% convinced that the attacks of September 11, 2001 were planned, organized, and committed by treasonous perpetrators that have infiltrated the highest levels of our government. It is now time to take our country back.

The "collapse" of WTC Building 7 [570 feet tall, 47 stories, and not hit by an airplane] shows beyond any doubt that the demolitions were pre-planned. There is simply no way to demolish a 47-story building (on fire) over a coffee break. It is also impossible to report the building’s collapse before it happened, as BBC News did, unless it was pre-planned. Further damning evidence is Larry Silverstein's video taped confession in which he states "they made that decision to pull [WTC 7] and we watched the building collapse."

We cannot let the pursuit of justice fail. Those of us in the military took an oath to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic". Just because we have retired does not make that oath invalid, so it is not just our responsibility, it is our duty to expose the real perpetrators of 9/11 and bring them to justice, no matter how hard it is, how long it takes, or how much we have to suffer to do it.


But who is this guy? I found no info about him. Only that he is on the patriotsquoestion911 list, and stj911.org members list. No photos, no other personal info, nothing.

We have a retired airforce pilot, so I suspected he would talk about NORAD and the military response. But no, he only talks about WTC 7 and repeats all the classic lies. No mention of NORAD or military.

He repeats the classic lines "treasonous perpetrators that have infiltrated the highest levels of our government", "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic" and "expose the real perpetrators of 9/11 and bring them to justice". Does this sound familiar to you? I've heard them a hundred thousand times. Classic Alex Jones material. Sounds almost manufactured by the Jones/Prisonplanet fearmongering factory.

If he is a USAF guy, why has he flown a Russian manufactured fighter MIG, and what is SUU-22? These might be stupid questions, but I just wondered.

I'm not saying this guy is a fraud. He might just be a mislead person who took the CT bait.

But the question that arised is, could it be possible that the truth movement would boost their rankings by adding fictional personalities to their lists? They lie all the time anyway. Why not add a few credible sounding people, who comment topics such as WTC 7 but not military actions, although they are fighter pilots. And repeat all the classic lies and catch phrases.

[Gravy]

The "collapse" of WTC Building 7 [570 feet tall, 47 stories, and not hit by an airplane] shows beyond any doubt that the demolitions were pre-planned. There is simply no way to demolish a 47-story building (on fire) over a coffee break. It is also impossible to report the building’s collapse before it happened, as BBC News did, unless it was pre-planned. Further damning evidence is Larry Silverstein's video taped confession in which he states "they made that decision to pull [WTC 7] and we watched the building collapse."

Guy, meet Occam. Occam, Guy.


Somebody's canopy didn't pop before he ejected!


Edit: I wonder if he's this "Guy." (http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/specialreports/TENcommandments/StoryAlabamaguilty30.htm)

Guy Razer of Arkansas pleaded guilty to the trespassing charge on Monday. He also must pay $25 in fines and $191 in court costs, but he said he does not regret what he did.

I regret that I didn't get to do what I wanted to do, he said Monday. My real intention was to go in there and glue it (the monument) down.


If he is, someone needs to tell him about the fourth Commandment.

[Obviousman]

The USAF purchased about 20-odd MiG-29s from Moldova.

The Su-22 is the 'export' version of the Su-17. They were exported to a number of countries, but he doesn't say where he flew one - though it is quite possible that he has.

Since he says he was an instructor at the USAF FWS, that should be fairly easy to check.

[apathoid]

It's possible he could've flown the F/A-18(a Navy/Marines Corp jet) as an instructor, but I think both the United States Navy Fighter Weapons School and the United States Air Force Weapons School still operate the F-5 and T-38 as Aggressors. The wiki entry for TopGun states that F-16s have been added to simulate the MiG-29 and Su-27....not F-18s. Don't know how else he would've flown a Navy aircraft in the Air Force.

[ref]

The USAF purchased about 20-odd MiG-29s from Moldova.

The Su-22 is the 'export' version of the Su-17. They were exported to a number of countries, but he doesn't say where he flew one - though it is quite possible that he has.

Ok. Thanks for that info.

[ref]

Edit: I wonder if he's this "Guy." (http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/specialreports/TENcommandments/StoryAlabamaguilty30.htm)

If he is, someone needs to tell him about the fourth Commandment.


Glue the monument down. Right.. Bright idea. Well, the WTC 7 claims made by the OP Guy are not bright either. I smell something here :cool:

[westprog]

Yet another military person has come out to support the truth movement.

http://www.911blogger.com/node/7482




But who is this guy? I found no info about him. Only that he is on the patriotsquoestion911 list, and stj911.org members list. No photos, no other personal info, nothing.

We have a retired airforce pilot, so I suspected he would talk about NORAD and the military response. But no, he only talks about WTC 7 and repeats all the classic lies. No mention of NORAD or military.

If he is part of the US military, he'll end up being chased on the massive conspiracy which had the US airforce at it's heart. They must have been involved in the two missing airliners (though the army probably took care of disposing of the missing passengers).

It would be quite typical for the movement to get a real expert in, and to corral him into the areas about which he knows nothing. A genuine colonel might have some interesting insights in how two aircraft could be disappeared, and aircraft wreckage distributed.

[apathoid]

The USAF purchased about 20-odd MiG-29s from Moldova.

The Su-22 is the 'export' version of the Su-17. They were exported to a number of countries, but he doesn't say where he flew one - though it is quite possible that he has.

Since he says he was an instructor at the USAF FWS, that should be fairly easy to check.

My preliminary InvestigooglingTM suggests that the MiG-29 purchase was to keep the MiGs from falling into the wrong hands and to eyeball the various systems.

In 1997, the United States purchased 21 Moldovan aircraft for evaluation and analysis, under the Cooperative Threat Reduction accord. Fourteen of the aircraft were the 'Fulcrum-C' model, which is equipped with an active radar jammer in its spine and is capable of being armed with nuclear weapons. Part of the United States motive to purchase the Moldovan MiG-29s, was to prevent these aircraft from being sold to Iran[1]. In late 1997, the MiGs were delivered to the National Air Intelligence Center (NAIC) at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base near Dayton, Ohio. One former Moldovan 'Fulcrum-C' is currently stored in a restoration hangar belonging to the National Museum of the United States Air Force at Wright-Patterson, and another is on display at the base itself. The fate of all the former Moldovan MiG-29s is unknown, although many are believed to have been scrapped.

From the MiG-29 wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_MiG-29). It doesn't appear that they were used in any training or operational capacity. Maybe LTC Razer was a ferry pilot for one of them? :con2:

I don't think the USAF would have any use for the Su-22, though it's probable that at least a few Soviet pilots defected in them.

[ref]

My preliminary InvestigooglingTM suggests that the MiG-29 purchase was to keep the MiGs from falling into the wrong hands and to eyeball the various systems.

From the MiG-29 wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_MiG-29). It doesn't appear that they were used in any training or operational capacity. Maybe LTC Razer was a ferry pilot for one of them? :con2:

I don't think the USAF would have any use for the Su-22, though it's probable that at least a few Soviet pilots defected in them.


Yep, I found it rather surprising, that USAF would use Russian fighters in any occasion.

ETA: Of course, he could have flown them somewhere. But he is dead wrong about WTC 7, a parrot.

[apathoid]

Yep, I found it rather surprising, that USAF would use Russian fighters in any occasion.

They don't even use Navy fighters(F-18).

IMO, there's a small chance that he flew either the F-18, MiG-29, or Su-22. The chances that he flew all of them.....? :pigsfly

[Unsecured Coins]

(though the army probably took care of disposing of the missing passengers).


we did NAH - ZING!

[fuelair]

which guys' razer is he? That name and being a (certainly) lying rectum of a troofer make me just a little suspicious.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Okay, real simple here. He is not saying that he is a whistle-blower or has insider information into what happened. Ergo, that he was a fighter pilot is moot and is a fallacious appeal to authority. So he bought in to the Alex Jones spiel, so what? He's a fighter pilot, not a Vulcan.

[Wartrac]

Being an ex-Army ground pounder I'm not going to pretent to know the ins and outs of the AF. However, the Mig part doesn't bother me, but being a "fighter" pilot and having stick time on the B-1 does. A buddy of mine was a Navy pilot on the Kitty Hawk moons ago, I'll give him a ring see what he thinks.

As mentioned though, talking about WTC7 and not about Norad protocols etc seems a little odd.

Regardless, let's say this guy is what he says he is.......if people think you can't be a little "touched" because you served in the military.....well people who think that haven't served in the military lol.

[Disbelief]

Being an ex-Army ground pounder I'm not going to pretent to know the ins and outs of the AF. However, the Mig part doesn't bother me, but being a "fighter" pilot and having stick time on the B-1 does. A buddy of mine was a Navy pilot on the Kitty Hawk moons ago, I'll give him a ring see what he thinks.



It would be very unlikely that he flew both fighters and bombers. The pilots are trained in a specific type of aircraft, with fighters being the most desired, because they are far different. They do not want jack-of-all-trades pilots, but experts at their respective aircraft.

Also, like others have mentioned, he most likely would not fly Navy aircraft. The only possibility might be if he had been stationed at the Reykjavik Naval Air Station in Iceland and flew missions there. I am not even sure what aircraft they have there, though the three times I was there it had some cargo planes and layovers.

ETA: My mistake, the NAS in Iceland only housed USAF planes (F-15, refuelers), some rescue helicopters and some anti-sub airplanes.

[ref]

It would be very unlikely that he flew both fighters and bombers. The pilots are trained in a specific type of aircraft, with fighters being the most desired, because they are far different. They do not want jack-of-all-trades pilots, but experts at their respective aircraft.

Also, like others have mentioned, he most likely would not fly Navy aircraft. The only possibility might be if he had been stationed at the Rejkavik Naval Air Station in Iceland and flew missions there. I am not even sure what aircraft they have there, though the three times I was there it had some cargo planes and layovers.

Some info about the Keflavik, Iceland Air Base.

http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/waf/ice/usforces.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Air_Station_Keflavik

[kookbreaker]

Call me a contrarian, but at this stage I'd be much more impressed with a high ranking officer who deals with logistics saying there was a conspiracy than some F-jockey.

"Missing planes? Absent missiles? Well, here's how you could do it..."

[Darth Rotor]

If he is a USAF guy, why has he flown a Russian manufactured fighter MIG, and what is SUU-22? These might be stupid questions, but I just wondered.
He might have flown them on an exchange tour, as part of a Test Pilot School program (one of my guys who was a TPS instructor went to Russia to fly a few Russian Helicopters as part of the TPS syllabus and NATO Partnership for Peace program) or as an adversary instructor in Nellis. (But I don't recall if the USAF has adversary Russian planes, I am pretty sure they don't. )

As far as flying F-18's, there were some Air Force instructors at Strike U as part of an interservice exchange program. Not sure if Strike U still has them. (Top Gun is now part of Strike U, it no longer is based in Mirimar NAS San Diego, that's a Marine Base now thanks to El Toro and Tustin shutting down.) I worked for a General who served as a back seater in F-14's on one of his assignments with the Navy. He was an Air Force General. The interservice deal isn't as far fetched as some of you might think.

As to the rest, if this guy is for real, then we have someone whose trust in politicians has been shattered. Smedley Butler likewise became a bitter opponent of the Congressional Financial Complex when he retired from the Marine Corps.

If this guy is not for real, then it really doesn't matter.

DR

[CurtC]

So is the Trooth movement so pathetic, that every time a person in the military falls for it, that's news?

I think they're hoping that people with poor critical thinking skills get this confused, and think that a whistleblower with inside information has come forward.

[Loss Leader]

The F-111, B-1 and F-16? That makes no sense.

These are three very different types of planes. It would be like a doctor who specialized in cardiology, pediatrics and neurology. It would be like a family law attorney who does mergers and acquisitions.

Just about the only thing an F-16 pilot could do in the cockpit of a B-1 is yank and bank, stall, overstress the airplane and rip the wings off.

[Z]

If 'Howling Mad' Murdoch could fly anything in the sky, surely this guy could?

:)

[JonnyFive]

I wonder if this is the same "Guy." (http://commandocustoms.com/ccforum/index.php?topic=2600.0;prev_next=next) ;)

Anyway, aside from the issue with the fact he claims to have flown both fighters and bombers, the only info I can find on variations of the name is conspiracy web site crap with the same info.

Anyone know a way to check a list of former Air Force personnel? I don't need a service record, just name verification.

[firecoins]

I find it odd that he retired in 2002. You figure he may actually get a chance to use his skills and he leaves. Better yet the military is headed to war and they let an experienced pilot leave? I am by far no expert on the military but you think he would have stayed for at least 1 tour in Afganistan.

[pomeroo]

Before reading Stolen Valor by B.G. Burkett and Fake Warriors by Henry Mark Holzer, I used to wonder about guys like Razer. Now, I just assume that they're fakes.

http://www.stolenvalor.com/

[Darth Rotor]

The F-111, B-1 and F-16? That makes no sense.

These are three very different types of planes. It would be like a doctor who specialized in cardiology, pediatrics and neurology. It would be like a family law attorney who does mergers and acquisitions.

Just about the only thing an F-16 pilot could do in the cockpit of a B-1 is yank and bank, stall, overstress the airplane and rip the wings off.
I am sorry, but you are insulting pilots here.

Pilots know how to fly different planes, particulary if they go through the FTU to transition to new planes. Or, do you insist that no fighter pilot could fly a bus -- sorry 757? Guess what? There are hundreds, hell, thousands, of them doing it today, in the not so friendly skies of our ARTCC system. Ask beachnut, if you don't believe me.

The F-111 community began to leach people out of it in the late early 1990's, then the EF-111's shut down. Meanwhile, B-1 and F-16 were robust enough to keep alive. It is sometimes cheaper for the Air Force to transition a pilot than to create a new one.

If this Razer guy started as an F-111 pilot, going to either B-1, or F-16, or both is not much of a stretch, pilot wise. Depends on which guard unit or wing needed an experienced pilot. Also, he may have flown in multiple aircraft when he was assigned to the FWS at Nellis.

I flew in helicopters, and instructed in both helicopters and fixed wing trainers. No, I never tried to do a loop in a helicopter, but I taught people how to do them in fixed wing trainers.

DR

[Darth Rotor]

I find it odd that he retired in 2002. You figure he may actually get a chance to use his skills and he leaves. Better yet the military is headed to war and they let an experienced pilot leave? I am by far no expert on the military but you think he would have stayed for at least 1 tour in Afganistan.

WHy do you think that? LTC's don't control whether or not the country goes to war. He may well have had his career plan beyond tghe Air Force mapped out well before 9-11.

That data point is irrelevant. He also may haver retired due to principle, in believing that the war in Iraq was immoral, or whatever.

Ever hear of LTGEN Newbold?

DR

[firecoins]

Rob Riggle, the guy on the Daily Show, was an inactive reservist on 9/11 after spending years in the Marines. He was activated and spent a year in Afganistan. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1443527/

I am wondering why this guy wasn't kept on for the Afganistan invasion.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

The F-111, B-1 and F-16? That makes no sense.

These are three very different types of planes. It would be like a doctor who specialized in cardiology, pediatrics and neurology. It would be like a family law attorney who does mergers and acquisitions.

This, I would agree with.

I find it especially amusing tht all these aircraft listed are the "sharp end of the spear". They are all frontline combat planes. While he's clearly claiming to be rated for four engines, he lists no cargo haulers among his certifications.

While I'm not saying that Col. Razer is a fraud for cewrtain, it is common among those who are frauds to try to sex up thier false resumes with all combat related stuff. You never hear about any of these jokers claiming to be a former commander of a C5 squadron or something in logistics.

Just about the only thing an F-16 pilot could do in the cockpit of a B-1 is yank and bank, stall, overstress the airplane and rip the wings off.

I feel this borders on CT reasoning. Anyone with a multi-engine rating should be perfectly capable of guiding a B-1 to the point where the Electronic Warfare Officer and Weapons Officer take over and do their thing.

It's like saying Hani Hanjour couldn't have smeared a 757 all over the side of the widest building in DC.

[Loss Leader]

I feel this borders on CT reasoning. Anyone with a multi-engine rating should be perfectly capable of guiding a B-1 to the point where the Electronic Warfare Officer and Weapons Officer take over and do their thing.

It's like saying Hani Hanjour couldn't have smeared a 757 all over the side of the widest building in DC.


My only point was that the aircraft are different enough to make one really wonder about the guy's Air Force career path. Unless he's Will Smith in Independence Day, chances are he can't fly any damn thing he happens to jump into.

[JamesB]

But hey, even if he is a fake, you have to admit that Guy Razer is a cool name for a fighter pilot.

[AZCat]

My only point was that the aircraft are different enough to make one really wonder about the guy's Air Force career path. Unless he's Will Smith in Independence Day, chances are he can't fly any damn thing he happens to jump into.

I know a guy who went from flying A-10s here at Davis-Monthan to flying B-2s. Other than going from fixed-wing to rotary (or vice-versa) I can't think of a more radical jump, but this guy did it. Based on that (admittedly small) sample, I don't think I can rule out Guy Razor's claimed list of aircraft flown.

[CurtC]

But hey, even if he is a fake, you have to admit that Guy Razer is a cool name for a fighter pilot.
Unless he pronounces it "Gee," like the only Guy I know.

[Pope130]

I took a look at the public records available at Military.com. There is a retired Lt.Col. fighter pilot named Guy S. Razer listed. No further details of his career.
The aircraft listed in the bio above as those he flew would be very unusual, but not impossible for one pilot. I would speculate that only a graduate of Test Pilot School would have occasion to fly all those types. A later assignment to Fighters Weapons Wing at Nellis would not be unlikely for a test pilot. The NATO assignment could easily account or the MiG-29 and Su-22, either former East German aircraft (which were kept operational by the Luftwaffe for a time), or former Warsaw Pact country aircraft.
One oddity in the bio is a pilot with that experience level retiring during wartime.

All that said (as I said in the thread about Dan Davis) I think what he is said to have said about 9/11 is rubbish.

Robert Klaus

[Babbylonian]

One oddity in the bio is a pilot with that experience level retiring during wartime.
It's not necessarily odd for a number of reasons:

1) He could have reached an age where it was either up or out and they just didn't have a place to put him with other pilots coming up behind him.
2) He could have reached an age where he felt ready to move on. AFAIK, there's not a significant USAF pilot shortage so they probably wouldn't have reason to force him to stay, and it's not like they're going to transfer him to the Army and put him in a tank or APC.
3) Combined with 2, he could have had a job ready to go and, war or not, he'd put in his time and wanted to try the civilian life (likely better pay and definitely better hours).

Given the number of years one would usually put in going from 2nd Lieutenant to Lieutenant Colonel, I wouldn't question the retirement of any officer of that rank.

The above, of course, doesn't mean that it's not all a crock, but it doesn't seem "hinky" on its face.

[The Doc]

You know...

I cringe every time I see "[the building]" or "[WTC7]" added into that quote. Makes me sick.

[Big Les]

Anyone with £12,000 burning a hole in their Ebay-purchased flightsuit can fly a MiG-29 (http://www.flymig.com/). The F/A-18 is more suspicious, as already pointed out.

[Obviousman]

I took a look at the public records available at Military.com. There is a retired Lt.Col. fighter pilot named Guy S. Razer listed. No further details of his career.
The aircraft listed in the bio above as those he flew would be very unusual, but not impossible for one pilot. I would speculate that only a graduate of Test Pilot School would have occasion to fly all those types. A later assignment to Fighters Weapons Wing at Nellis would not be unlikely for a test pilot. The NATO assignment could easily account or the MiG-29 and Su-22, either former East German aircraft (which were kept operational by the Luftwaffe for a time), or former Warsaw Pact country aircraft.
One oddity in the bio is a pilot with that experience level retiring during wartime.

All that said (as I said in the thread about Dan Davis) I think what he is said to have said about 9/11 is rubbish.

Robert Klaus

I almost totally agree. F-111 to B-1? Not a problem. F-16 / F-18? Not a problem (e.g. he may have done a tour with a USN / USMC squadron - or a RAAF squadron). MiG-29 / Su-22? A little less likely but certainly not impossible - especially if he is just saying "I did a hop or two in it" rather than flying it for an extended length of time.

Going from bombers to fighters is unusual, but certainly not unheard of.

I'm unsure of the US forces, but I wouldn't see anything strange about the guy paying off in 2002. Perhaps his ROSO was up; perhaps he reached retiring age. Who knows?

As people have mentioned, so far it's just another guy with an opinion: no more or less important than anyone elses.

If he starts to offer expert opinion (i.e. aircraft performance, military capability, etc) then his credentials come into play. Then it would be prudent to check and see if he does actually have the background to speak as an expert in that field.

[gumboot]

It's kind of weird that he calls himself a "USAF fighter pilot" considering he only lists one aircraft which is a USAF fighter - the F-16. All of the other aircraft are a combination of non-air force and strike aircraft.

Surely someone with a career of that nature would refer to themselves as an "Air Force Strike Pilot" or similar.

In addition, why would somone include Russian aircraft in the brackets after "USAF fighter pilot"? Normally such an inclusion would indicate the list of aircraft you flew as a USAF fighter pilot, not any aircraft you might randomly have flown once. Does he list the aircraft he did his basic in? His jet conversion? He must have seen many hours in these aircraft. And yet he sees fit to mention a 1960's era Russian ground attack aircraft. Why?

And last of all, what does it matter? All this guy mentions, after "4+ years of research" is the WTC7 canon - not hit by aircraft, "pull it", and most suspicious of all, the recently discovered "BBC goof".

He's not a structural engineer. He wasn't even an army engineer. I frankly couldn't care less if he's had 10,000 hours flying every single aircraft ever made in the history of aviation. He lacks the expertise to examine WTC7 independent of other expert assessment.

I wonder how he would feel if a structural engineer started making broad-sweeping statements about flying aircraft.

-Gumboot

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

I'd like to reiterate that his claim of being a fighter pilot, and what he flew, are completely moot to his claims regarding 9/11. Spending time trying to figure out if he is, or is not, a fighter pilot has no value in regards to his claims concerning 9/11.

Furthermore, even if it turns out that he is completely fabricating the fighter-pilot background it would not have any bearing on the truth, or falsehood, of his claims regarding 9/11.

Unlike, Chavez, this person is making no claims regarding 9/11 which rely upon his having been in the military. Since his claims regarding 9/11 are nothing new, and nothing that has not already been addressed I don't feel this issue deserves any more energy expended upon it.

My US$0.02

[Z]

I imagine with the technical complexity involved that the issue of piloting aircraft is different from other vehicles, so I don't know if this makes any point or not; but in most MLRS units I've been assigned to, it was a 'strong suggestion' that every driver be rated on every piece of equipment, from the auto-tranny Humm-V to the stick-shift deuce-and a half to the rather odd dual-stick control command post vehicles, to the almost self-driving MLRS vehicle itself, all the way up to the hefty and rather scary M88 recovery vehicle.

You never knew when a crew would be taken out of action, and you were the only person left to recover a piece of equipment from the battlefield, after all.

Still, the principles are very similar in this case, so I doubt it relates to piloting.

[Pope130]

The open record I mentioned does identify Lt.Col. Razer specificaly as a fighter pilot, AFSC W11F3G. Even if he flew other types the identification as "Fighter Pilot" would not be unusual. It's a status thing, fighter jocks think they're the hottest thing in the world. Given his listed retirement date he would have come up during the "Fighter Mafia" period, and might consider that the defining aspect of his career. His not mentioning the training aircraft is not strange either, since every pilot would have gone through them. The list looks more like a brag sheet than a complete CV.
I should have expanded on what I found odd about retiring in 2002. At that time HYT (High Year of Tenure) was waived for many career fields, particularly operational combat jobs.
This is all assuming that the WTC comments actually were made by the Colonel. It's possible that someone just picked a name out of public records to give credence to fiction.

Robert Klaus

[Darth Rotor]

My only point was that the aircraft are different enough to make one really wonder about the guy's Air Force career path. Unless he's Will Smith in Independence Day, chances are he can't fly any damn thing he happens to jump into.
Did you read my reply to you in regard to flying multiple platforms? I am more than passingly familiar with military pilot training, and I find your argument from ignorance disappointing.

DR

[Darth Rotor]

It's kind of weird that he calls himself a "USAF fighter pilot" considering he only lists one aircraft which is a USAF fighter - the F-16. All of the other aircraft are a combination of non-air force and strike aircraft.
So what? Pilots don't tend to talk like anal retentive hair spliters. A strike is not an aircraft, it is a mission. Pilots tend to use their preferred jargon to describe themselves, not the jargon of laymen. Within the overall Joint Strike community, you have attack guys, fighter pilots, bomber pilots, and a few hybrids.

Some people use the older parochial term "fighter pilot" to embrace all tactical jet aviation, which originated before people used A to denote a purpose built Close Air Support Aircraft, rather than F, both of which derive from the P class aircraft of WW II: note that P-47 was a fighter bomber, as the Hornet is, and as the Phantom became. Likewise the Grumman F6F Hellcat, and the F4U Corsair.

I hung out with military pilots for most of my career. Nothing he says is other than normal, it is your perception and semantic hairsplitting that is creating your confusion. (Caveat: assuming this this guy is for real. ) Granted, he's been lucky to have such a varied career, but that variation probably cost him a shot at command, which is one possibility why he got out when he did. Might also have had some medical issues that grounded him.
Surely someone with a career of that nature would refer to themselves as an "Air Force Strike Pilot" or similar.
Dead Wrong. It's part of pilot sub culture.

Once a fighter pilot, thanks to his tour in F-16's, he can call himself a fighter pilot for the rest of his life. Why? He is and was one, and earned the right to call himself one. Fighter pilot, (particularly within USAF) carries a bit more cache than generic "jet pilot" or "bomber pilot" or "attack pilot." No one flies a strike, that's a mission. The plane is a fighter, or a bomber, or a Warthog. :p

Beachnut flew heavies, IIRC, and though you see a pic of him mounting a T-38 (based on the F-5 fighter design of 40 years ago) I don't see him calling himself a "fighter pilot." I am guessing he did his T-38 tour as an IP. I'd also guess beachie knows fighter pilots, having fueled them for some years. I hope he comments.
In addition, why would somone include Russian aircraft in the brackets after "USAF fighter pilot"?
Because he has flown them. (Or, so he says.) :cool:
Normally such an inclusion would indicate the list of aircraft you flew as a USAF fighter pilot, not any aircraft you might randomly have flown once. Does he list the aircraft he did his basic in?
Not quite. Pilots don't tend to talk like anal retentive hair spliters, unless they are arguing nit noid details about their aircraft, or its Dash-1, Dash-10, or NATOPS manual, with another pilot. Then, stand by.
His jet conversion? He must have seen many hours in these aircraft. And yet he sees fit to mention a 1960's era Russian ground attack aircraft. Why?
Because he flew one, and it's a tactical jet, which is generically a "fighter" depending on your community. There were Navy guys instructing in A-4's as recently as 1999, an early sixties era attack aircraft. Who are you to tell them that they aren't fighter pilots, if their tour in the fleet was in F-14's of F-18's?
And last of all, what does it matter? All this guy mentions, after "4+ years of research" is the WTC7 canon - not hit by aircraft, "pull it", and most suspicious of all, the recently discovered "BBC goof".
Good question. :D

His qualifications as a fighter pilot and WTC 7 don't seem to me all that related in terms of "expertise."
He's not a structural engineer. He wasn't even an army engineer. I frankly couldn't care less if he's had 10,000 hours flying every single aircraft ever made in the history of aviation. He lacks the expertise to examine WTC7 independent of other expert assessment.
You don't need to be a structural engineer to understand it, but it helps.
I wonder how he would feel if a structural engineer started making broad-sweeping statements about flying aircraft.
About the same way I feel as you making uninformed remarks about fighter pilots. :p

It's OK, we still love ya, NORAD Kiwi man. :D

DR

[JamesB]

He is now a member of the Veterans for 9/11 truth, although so is Lauro Chavez...

Welcome Guy!
See the v911t Members List of Honor: http://www.v911t.org/members.php

Air Force Fighter Pilot and Instructor Comes Out for 9/11 Truth

9/11 Blogger
Monday April 2, 2007

Every day, additional military and government people come out for
9/11 truth. The latest is Lt. Col. Guy S. Razer.

[uk_dave]

He is now a member of the Veterans for 9/11 truth, although so is Lauro Chavez...

Well WHOOOOPEEEEEDOOOOOOO

If all US military pilots were infallible there'd be more UK soldiers still alive...


....Ouch! :boxedin:

[JamesB]

Well WHOOOOPEEEEEDOOOOOOO

If all US military pilots were infallible there'd be more UK soldiers still alive...


....Ouch! :boxedin:

Yeah, the Canadians are still a little miffed about that too.

Sorry guys....

Actually after I had an editorial published in the Seattle PI, one of first hate mails I received was from a retired Chief Warrant Officer who used to be in my unit. He later sent me an apology.

[Big Les]

All good points DR - we should all be careful of argument from ignorance and picking up on apparent (dare I say, "common sense") discrepancies. That way lies the Dark Side... :)

Although I wonder whether the pointy jet drivers would be as charitable about you as a dreaded eggbeater pilot... ;)

[gumboot]

So what? Pilots don't tend to talk like anal retentive hair spliters....

...

Not quite. Pilots don't tend to talk like anal retentive hair spliters


Is it just me, or are you calling me an anal retentive hair splitter? :confused:


Who are you to tell them that they aren't fighter pilots, if their tour in the fleet was in F-14's of F-18's?


I don't recall ever claiming he wasn't a fighter pilot... I'm just musing on things I find odd, that's all.




You don't need to be a structural engineer to understand it, but it helps.


That's not what I'm saying. I, for example, am not a structural engineer, however I understand in basic terms what happened with the buildings. However I only know that because of the expertise of people who are structural engineers.

This pilot, however, is making statements independent of structural engineers.




About the same way I feel as you making uninformed remarks about fighter pilots. :p


I don't recall ever making any uninformed remarks about fighter pilots...

-Gumboot

[ref]

I know this doesn't add any value to his WTC comments, but still worth mentioning :)

The PFT site gives him these credentials:

Guy S. Razer, LtCol, USAF (Ret)
3,500+ Hours Total Flight Time
F-15E/C, F-111A/D/E/F/EF, F-16, F-18, B-1, Mig-29, SU-22, T-37/38, Various Cvilian Prop
Combat Time: Operation Northern Watch
USAF Fighter Weapons School Instructor
NATO Tactical Leadership Program Instructor/Mission Coordinator
USAF Material Command Weapons Development Test Pilot
Combat Support Coordination Team 2 Airpower Coordinator, South Korea
All Service Combat Identification Evaluation Team Operations Officer
Boeing F-22 Pilot Instructor
MS Aeronautical Studies, Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University


Only 3,500+ hours total flight time? Not too much.



But to make things perfect. Check THIS out:

http://www.myspace.com/supereagle69

Supposedly his Myspace page. I smell something very fishy here.

[Obviousman]

I agree, there is something a little odd about the way he portrays himself... but does it matter?

Again, this guy can think whatever he likes. If he wades into the debate as an expert in a particular field, then his qualifications come into play.

[Unsecured Coins]

Embry Riddle Aeronautical Univ-Extended Campus (http://search.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=find&circuitaction=search&searchType=network&f_first_name=&InterestType=SCH&f_search_criteria=6672&x=46&y=12) 1995 to 1996
Daytona Beach, FL
Graduated: 1996 (http://search.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=find&circuitaction=search&searchType=network&f_first_name=&InterestType=SCH-REF&f_search_criteria=6672&x=46&y=12&YearType=graduated&GradYear=1996)
Student status: Alumni
Degree: Master's Degree
Major: Aeronautical Studies




Embry Riddle Aeronautical Univ-Extended Campus (http://search.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=find&circuitaction=search&searchType=network&f_first_name=&InterestType=SCH&f_search_criteria=6672&x=46&y=12) 1978 to 1980
Daytona Beach, FL
Graduated: N/A (http://www.myspace.com/Modules/ProfileDisplay/Controls/#)
Degree: Bachelor's Degree
Major: Aeronautical Science




El Camino Real Senior High (http://search.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=find&circuitaction=search&searchType=network&f_first_name=&InterestType=SCH&f_search_criteria=21764&x=46&y=12) 1972 to 1975
Woodland Hills, CA
Graduated: N/A (http://www.myspace.com/Modules/ProfileDisplay/Controls/#)
Student status: Alumni
Degree: High School Diploma


I love all the "Graduated - N/A"'s

[pagan]

Yet another military person has come out to support the truth movement.

http://www.911blogger.com/node/7482




But who is this guy? I found no info about him. Only that he is on the patriotsquoestion911 list, and stj911.org members list. No photos, no other personal info, nothing.

We have a retired airforce pilot, so I suspected he would talk about NORAD and the military response. But no, he only talks about WTC 7 and repeats all the classic lies. No mention of NORAD or military.

He repeats the classic lines "treasonous perpetrators that have infiltrated the highest levels of our government", "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic" and "expose the real perpetrators of 9/11 and bring them to justice". Does this sound familiar to you? I've heard them a hundred thousand times. Classic Alex Jones material. Sounds almost manufactured by the Jones/Prisonplanet fearmongering factory.

If he is a USAF guy, why has he flown a Russian manufactured fighter MIG, and what is SUU-22? These might be stupid questions, but I just wondered.

I'm not saying this guy is a fraud. He might just be a mislead person who took the CT bait.

But the question that arised is, could it be possible that the truth movement would boost their rankings by adding fictional personalities to their lists? They lie all the time anyway. Why not add a few credible sounding people, who comment topics such as WTC 7 but not military actions, although they are fighter pilots. And repeat all the classic lies and catch phrases.

Something odd? Hey, you guys are just too paranoid.

[gumboot]

One day one of these veterans might say something worth looking in to...

-Gumboot

[Unsecured Coins]

another thing that catches my eye. His page says he's 49, 20 year retired. That would put him at joining the Air Force at 29. It takes a 4 year degree to get to flight school. That would make him a 34 year old Air Force LT.


Good god, do they think they're fooling people who are ACTUALLY IN THE MILITARY?

[Mr. Skinny]

another thing that catches my eye. His page says he's 49, 20 year retired. That would put him at joining the Air Force at 29. It takes a 4 year degree to get to flight school. That would make him a 34 year old Air Force LT.


Good god, do they think they're fooling people who are ACTUALLY IN THE MILITARY?
OK, sanity check, UC.

1. His current age is 49.
2. He retired from the Air Force with 20 yrs. experience.

Neither of those things say anything about how old he was when he joined.

If he got a Bachelor's degree in 80, he could have joined that year as a 23 year old LT.

Can you restate this? Am I missing something?

[Unsecured Coins]

OK, sanity check, UC.

1. His current age is 49.
2. He retired from the Air Force with 20 yrs. experience.

Neither of those things say anything about how old he was when he joined.

If he got a Bachelor's degree in 80, he could have joined that year as a 23 year old LT.

Can you restate this? Am I missing something?


You make sense, I just had a case of the retard and thought "oh, he just got out".

[gumboot]

He said he retired in 2002 so that means he joined at 25, +/- a year.

-Gumboot

[ref]

Something odd? Hey, you guys are just too paranoid.

Ok, nice to hear that from a truther :)

We are critical of our sources, like you should be with the EMT Mike letters, Screw Loose Change fake disputes, and so on.

[ref]

Mr. Razer has now been interviewed by Visibility 9/11.

http://visibility911.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=202198

Here is the link to the interview:

http://media.libsyn.com/media/visibility911/visibility911_razer.mp3

[Big Les]

I still can't believe this guy's name is actually Guy Razer. It's like being called "Jake Bullitt", or Ace Rimmer (http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/a/acerimmr.htm).

Anyway, just listening to this now. For those who don't want to waste their aural time, they start by talking about the advanced nature of jets in the US inventory in terms of long-distance targetting and engagement capability. The interviewer says he doesn't understand why it was a problem for there to be a delay in scrambling the jets, because they can target and hit aircraft at great distances :rolleyes: Without addressing the actual assets available, minimum engagement and identification distances, weapons available etc etc.

Razer (!) says the thing that "got his attention" was WTC7. He says the evidence is "unequibacle...uh...unequivocal". Somewhat outside his area of expertise, wouldn't you say?

NIST apparently "doesn't answer anything adequately". Towers "exploded, did not fall down. That's obvious".

Then the BBC thing about them reporting the collapse before time. Blah blah. Thanks Rosie O'Donnell as an "awesome patriot" and a load of other brown-nosing BS follows. It's just a big club, really, isn't it? It's all who you know, who you namecheck, it's about belonging to something bigger than yourself, that you can pretend is raging against something even bigger and more powerful.

The host and Razer go on about their 9/11 awakening in born-again terms, then start a load of political/ideological bluster. GWB, Iraq, personal freedom, surveillance, all the usual paranoia. Sod all of significance so far.

"I have to be careful exactly what I say" Repeating emails are apparently evidence of DARPA interference. Foil hats on, boys!

"Truth on our side" "evidence is irrefutable". Loose Change arse-kissing session...

"We're actually researching in the dark". Ain't that the truth.

Suppression of evidence (Pentagon video footage).... disinfo responsible for their own cruddy research. Pilots for 9/11 truth, "was there a plane"...

"FDR data doesn't match what was provided in the report". "basically the airplane couldn't have hit the Pentagon". Razer has seen a terrain-following MISSILE in one of the videos! Not big enough hole, no parts, no bodies, airplanes don't vapourise. Advanced weapons... some sort of shaped charge with depleted uranium because of "how they cleaned it up" (suits, respirators, decon etc). "Non-melted computer" right next to it. God, this is depressing.

"I'm a demolitions expert. I'm a fighter weapons school instructor, I know about explosives". I think the expression goes "O rly?"

"Shock and awe". (interviewer: "We don't have to prove what happened".

If they reinvestigate "we've done all the hard work" already!

$2.3 trillion missing from the Pentagon. Not heard that one before. The people responsible for investigating this were the ones who died, according to Razer. He cares about those people *cried crocodile tears*. Couldn't help but think of this:

Hey, hey, hey, rainy face!
Hey, proud warrior.



Let the sun come out,
you big bad G.I. Joe.



You know, kitten, we all have
permission to make mistakes.



It's called “learning.”

Prize for guessing the movie. Anyway, back to the freakshow. Interviewer repeats that the whole 9/11 Truth remit is to pick holes in the official story, not to investigate it as such.

<interlude>
Dreadful bloody country-rock song in the middle. Cheesy gravel-voiced ad for some lame CT websites, D. R. Griffin, the 9/11 Truth "store" etc etc. *vomit*.

Asks for evidence of the missile, Razer backtracks saying he doesn't know it was a missile. Only part of building to be reinforced, line on the lawn (?). I don't know that. I do know a plane the size of 77 couldn't have done it. Lightposts; "boy that's a good one". "I don't have an answer, it's fluff, it's visual fluff".

On the low altitude approach of the airliner; "I had a hard time flying under 100ft". Not much call for that in the types he flew of course, although I've seen it done by many fast jet pilots. Hell, just search Youtube (low flying Harriers is a doozy). The point of course is that the terrorist pilot didn't actually have to worry about avoiding anything.

Explains UCMJ (http://www.constitution.org/mil/ucmj19970615.htm) preventing military personnel from saying anything against one's government. Wells up again thinking about the F-15 pilots having to shoot down one of the airliners. Vectored in the wrong direction on purpose by Dic Cheney.

Seven exercises on that day, including one simulating an airliner flying into the Pentagon. The manual cover with WTC in crosshairs on the front.

Bush's deer-in-headlights moment unforgivable. Secret Service "standing down".

Procedure for aerial threat - "watch Pandora's Black Box video". "usually happens in minutes". Nearest base is Andrews, which is "within AMRAAM (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/aim-120.htm) range". How, pray, would these fighters (F-16s) have identified and engaged their target? "Airborne in five minutes".

Some guff about four-star generals preventing pilots from doing their jobs.

Interviewer; "if you expose 9/11" other military personnel will begin to (implied) "wake up". Razer plugs "Fiasco" (http://www.amazon.com/Fiasco-American-Military-Adventure-Iraq/dp/159420103X) book. Advises us to "prepare for the worst, hope for the best". Becoming mainstream, "nobody questioning" 9/11 truth.

So, legit credentials notwithstanding, this guy has bought the same old debunked nonsense hook, line, sinker and copy of Angling Times (http://www.anglingtimes.co.uk/).

Sorry this is so patchy. I couldn't stand listening through twice!

[JamesB]

I still can't believe this guy's name is actually Guy Razer. It's like being called "Jake Bullitt", or Ace Rimmer.

Actually I am curious about that. This guy posted to the Veterans for 9/11 Truth newsgroup, but his e-mail had a completely different name, Bill Jenkins. What, he can't figure out how to set up his own Yahoo e-mail account?

[Unsecured Coins]

What gets me all giddy is when another "military guy" comes out for "the truth" he immediately sets up a Myspace page. 10 minutes after someone mentions his name, a page "appears"

With all the channels and connections a 20, 30 year vet can have, he uses MySpace. Shoot, I still have friends in SpecOps. I'd use them before I put up a freaking MYSPACE account

[apathoid]

Listening to the audio file that ref linked now and I'm about 8 minutes or so in. What stands out so far this guy(pun intended) really doesn't sound very knowledgable. The first 5-6 minutes, the host is probing him and asking about the airplanes and Razer basically just agrees with him without going into various systems, and procedures, etc..which is what it sounds like the host is asking for. He also slips up and mentions TCAS in regards to the collision with the WTC. TCAS is basically anti-collision system between aircraft; buildings don't show up as targets. Not the biggest mistake in the world, but it makes him seem ignorant..IMO

I'll keep listening, but so far I'm unimpressed, to say the least...



edit: halfway thru now, Big Les was right, I cant stomach anymore of this BS. "LTC Razer"(he's earned the scare quotes) has never met a 911 sub-conspiracy he didn't like.

[apathoid]

Yipes.

Host: (paraphrased) What would be a typical Air Force response to an emergency like 9/11, what is the timeframe of the response, what are some precautions, etc...?

LTC Razer, experienced AF veteran fighter pilot of 20 years: Watch Pandora's Black Box. Andrews fighters could've shot right after wheels-up. {Proceeds to spew a bunch of empty rhetoric}

I guess this Guy doesn't know that Andrews AFB doesn't have any fighter units on alert, much less armed and he never mentions Langley AFB, the biggest fighter base on the East Coast.

The thing thats most interesting about this interview is that the host seems to want Razer to talk about pilot stuff and his Air Force experience, expert insider factoids if you will, and continually asks for this throughout the interview, but he never gets anything remotely technical - just a bunch of CTer talking points that I'm sure he's heard a bazillion times, several plugs for Loose Change and PfffT, along with a bunch of emotional rhetoric. He also seemed quite nervous and clumsy as he spoke, which seems a little odd(IMO of course) for a field grade officer and NATO/FWS instructor who should have some experience addressing fairly large groups of people.

In short: http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/99024525c71053c56.gif

[JamesB]

He has also been interviewed by the V911T folks.

http://www.v911t.org/M/GuyRazer.mp3

I will have to listen to these too, although I am not Air Force, so I am more reluctant to Fisk his comments than Lauro.

[apathoid]

He has also been interviewed by the V911T folks.

http://www.v911t.org/M/GuyRazer.mp3

I will have to listen to these too, although I am not Air Force, so I am more reluctant to Fisk his comments than Lauro.

Ugh, another hour interview. Don't these people know how to keep it short and sweet? Must they rehash every single theory out there, and talk about the Gulf of Tonkin, JFK, election stealing, the entire history of the Denial movement, and plug all the other tw00f clubs and websites? Good gosh.

Anyhow, fisk away James. I'm ten minutes in and it's more of the same BS(he even mentions the TCAS again. giggle). I swear we could do a Gravy-like Listeners GuideTM for these clips. I mean, these people absolutely immune to the debunkings that have destroyed their little fantasies over and over and over again. It's also funny that this Guy thinks the gummints spamming his email box and playing games with him. Oh, check out his myspace: http://www.myspace.com/supereagle69. It's like a black hole of crazy.....

911 Truth Activist, Veteran USAF Fighter Pilot, and NWO Destroyer

Guy's Blurbs
About me:
I am a retired 20 year veteran US Air Force fighter pilot leader and warrior. I have spent the last 4+ years researching 911 and other tyrannical endeavours of the traitors that have snaked their way into top leadership positions in this great country. I am active in bringing the truth to light and defeating the New World Order fascists. GUY RAZER, LtCol, USAF (Ret.) Website: www.myspace.com/supereagle69 E-mail: guyrazer@yahoo.com 4907 Fam Camp Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89115 Objective: Exposure of 911Truth, Justice for Perpetrators, and Crushing of the NWO

Who I'd like to meet:
Anyone who is interested in saving our country and possibly the world.

Who Controls The World? Illuminati, Jesuits, Bilderberg, Church, Skull, Religion
{Bolding mine}


Wow. This Guy'll fit right in over at PfT...

[ref]

Thanks Big Les and Apathoid for your listening efforts. I couldn't access those files yet, because my work computer has no audio, and my home computer crashed (NWO!).

This really makes some alarms sound. According to the snippets you wrote, he goes in no detail about his career or experience, a 20 year vet. He sets up a Myspace page. He sounds nervous. Non-expert comments. He repeats all the conspiracy claims in the world. Strange Razer. And that name.. Sounds like a PFT comic feature.


Only part of building to be reinforced, line on the lawn (?).

This is the part I didn't get in the Loose Change. They said, that days before 9/11 there was a line on the Pentagon grass, directly aligned with the flight path of Flight 77. Like they drew a guideline for the plane to the grass before the event. What's up with that claim :eye-poppi like the stupidest thing ever. Almost.

[apathoid]

Thanks Big Les and Apathoid for your listening efforts. I couldn't access those files yet, because my work computer has no audio, and my home computer crashed (NWO!).

This really makes some alarms sound. According to the snippets you wrote, he goes in no detail about his career or experience, a 20 year vet. He sets up a Myspace page. He sounds nervous. Non-expert comments. He repeats all the conspiracy claims in the world. Strange Razer. And that name.. Sounds like a PFT comic feature.



He did give a little background info. Basically, same as what he wrote on his mysapce page. FWS Instructor, NATO Leadership Instructor, flew fighters and bombers, Russian planes, etc.

But he didn't really go into any detail on any military/aviation related topic. A great example was when the host asked about Air Force response to something like a 9/11 and he answered "Watch this Tw00f flick. It explains it".
Not something I'd expect from a man of his experience. That would be like asking R.Mackey something about NASA and him replying "Google it". And he did that a number of times, not just that once.


This is the part I didn't get in the Loose Change. They said, that days before 9/11 there was a line on the Pentagon grass, directly aligned with the flight path of Flight 77. Like they drew a guideline for the plane to the grass before the event. What's up with that claim :eye-poppi like the stupidest thing ever. Almost.

It's pretty stupid. Yeah, pilots would need a line in the grass to point them at the biggest building in the world that they were destined to hit anyway if they could discern this line. Anyhow, Russell P did a great job debunking that(as if it needed to be debunked) by showing images dated from the '90s clearly showing the line.

[JamesB]

Ugh, another hour interview. Don't these people know how to keep it short and sweet? Must they rehash every single theory out there, and talk about the Gulf of Tonkin, JFK, election stealing, the entire history of the Denial movement, and plug all the other tw00f clubs and websites? Good gosh.

Anyhow, fisk away James. I'm ten minutes in and it's more of the same BS(he even mentions the TCAS again. giggle). I swear we could do a Gravy-like Listeners GuideTM for these clips. I mean, these people absolutely immune to the debunkings that have destroyed their little fantasies over and over and over again. It's also funny that this Guy thinks the gummints spamming his email box and playing games with him. Oh, check out his myspace: http://www.myspace.com/supereagle69. It's like a black hole of crazy.....


{Bolding mine}


Wow. This Guy'll fit right in over at PfT...

Yeah, I dunno about this guy. He seems quite emotionally fragile for a fighter pilot, I thought he was going to cry a couple of times. Most of his comments were pretty much Internet cliches. For someone with such extensive experience, he pretty much cited things he read on the net, even on Air Force specific issues.

As someone mentioned earlier though, his experience is pretty much irrelevent regardless, since it adds nothing to his story.

[JamesB]

It's pretty stupid. Yeah, pilots would need a line in the grass to point them at the biggest building in the world that they were destined to hit anyway if they could discern this line. Anyhow, Russell P did a great job debunking that(as if it needed to be debunked) by showing images dated from the '90s clearly showing the line.


Another similar example is when he said that Hanjour could not have adjusted his flight path when he was only 10 feet off the ground, because he couldn't turn without the wings hitting the ground.

Excuse me? By the time he was 10 feet off the ground he was only a couple of hundred feet away from a building 1000 feet wide. How could he possibly miss it regardless of whether he could turn or not?

[ref]

It's pretty stupid. Yeah, pilots would need a line in the grass to point them at the biggest building in the world that they were destined to hit anyway if they could discern this line. Anyhow, Russell P did a great job debunking that(as if it needed to be debunked) by showing images dated from the '90s clearly showing the line.

Well, this clearly shows that the NWO planned this well in advance, years ahead :cool: This reminds me of the Phantom crash video, that someone claimed (was it Killtown?) was a psy-ops video and was related to 9/11. Was that video from the 80'es or something? :D

[apathoid]

Another similar example is when he said that Hanjour could not have adjusted his flight path when he was only 10 feet off the ground, because he couldn't turn without the wings hitting the ground.

Excuse me? By the time he was 10 feet off the ground he was only a couple of hundred feet away from a building 1000 feet wide. How could be possibly miss it regardless of whether he could turn or not?

Yeah, I winced at that. But I was more taken aback when he said he had trouble flying(an F-15?) 100' at 500 mph. Gee, pilots sure make it look easy during airshows, which happen almost every day somewhere in the world. He must not have been very good fighter pilot(considering he was a Top Gun instructor).

I also giggled when the host asked what it's like flying the F-16 and Razer replied something like "like riding a magic carpet"...I was half expecting the host to say "Okaaaaay, can you maybe elaborate a little...talk about some of the systems..."

[gumboot]

Yeah, I winced at that. But I was more taken aback when he said he had trouble flying(an F-15?) 100' at 500 mph. Gee, pilots sure make it look easy during airshows, which happen almost every day somewhere in the world. He must not have been very good fighter pilot(considering he was a Top Gun instructor).



No wonder our RNZAF pilots kicked so much ass when they visited Top Gun. They were used to shrieking along in an A4K Skyhawk at 600 MPH+ at below sea level...

My favourite response when people bring up how "there's no way you could pilot a plane like that"... I just respond "They crashed".

I mean seriously... they're basically saying you have to be an awesome pilot to crash a plane. Maybe if AA77 raced along for half an hour at tree top level I'd be impressed. But it didn't. It crashed into a building. That's not amazing. That's not talent. Crashing is generally something good pilots avoid.

-Gumboot

[AMTMAN]

Don't know if anyone else noticed this but it says he was a "Boeing F-22 Pilot Instructor". Boeing is only a subcontractor on the F-22 program. LM is the primary one. I would have figured that an IP on the F-22 would know that.

[Gravy]

Don't know if anyone else noticed this but it says he was a "Boeing F-22 Pilot Instructor". Boeing is only a subcontractor on the F-22 program. LM is the primary one. I would have figured that an IP on the F-22 would know that.That would be very strange indeed, but perhaps he said he was a "boring F-22 Pilot Instructor," which I would believe. :D

[PhantomWolf]

Just out of curiousity, the stolenvalor link (http://www.stolenvalor.com/foia.htm) that pomeroo posted has information on how to request the public parts of a person's military records using a FOI request. I don't suppose anyone in the US tried that out to find out about this guy?

[BigAl]

And some Italian skiers, too,

[ref]

At patriotsquestion911.com they have a subpage, called:

http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots.html

Razer is included.

The first person on that page is our buddy Rob Balsamo:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1363946a5a5045c036.jpg

Hello, Rob.

[Mangoose]

I have a Guy S. Razer born on November 30, 1957 (mother's maiden name: Hamilton), married to a Linda Hart (wedding on July 8, 1984), formerly living in Fort Walton Beach, Florida and recently living in Idaho. There are two major air foce bases at Fort Walton Beach, Hurlburt Field and Eglin AFB.

[Reheat]

First post....

I have been lurking here for a few days and noticed this discussion a couple of days ago. I decide to lend my services if they can be used in any way. I'm immensely embarrassed and ashamed that this has happened.

To title this guy as odd is an understatement of gigantic proportion!:jaw-dropp

I had a similar background as Razor up until I retired. We would have crossed paths early in his career, but late in mine. It would not be unusual that I don't know him as the F-111 community is somewhat compartmentalized.

Since his basic credentials are listed on military.com, I believe it's a dead end approach to speculate that he didn't exist. He obviously did. However, the Guy Razor joining all of these "fringe element" organizations (not to mention that incredible web page on MySpace) and being interviewed may or may not be the same. No one has mentioned Identity Theft! :eek: I have listened to both interviews with a great deal of pain and incredulity!:shocked: He has said nothing yet that either proves or disproves his identity. In fact, the guy being interviewed has roughly a 50/50 change of being the one with the career credentials he lists. Remember, there is a tremendous amount of information available on the web and most (if not all) of what he has said is available for someone who has assumed his identity. He has bordered on a couple of statements that might still be classified, but nothing provable to me,yet. Remember, there are other people besides someone with his credentials that would have access to all of the things he has said, so far.

In the interviews the persona he presents tells me virtually % 100 that he is who he says he is or someone with similar background. I won't go into detail, but that would only be evident to someone from his kind of background. However, it is beyond the pale to accept that someone with his background would buy ALL of the crap that he has obviously swallowed. His reply to some questions is extremely odd given his background. For example, the answer about WTC 7 being the the "smoking gun" for him when that is not within his area of expertise. Having said that he would be no dummy related to physics. The comment about masks and respirators being worn by rescue during the Pentagon cleanup should be more than plainly obvious, yet he mentions DU and indicates that he is a demolitions expert! BS of extreme proportion! He is an expert in all aspects of AF weaponry, but he knows "jack chit" about demolitions based upon his CV. He obviously does not know the function of TCAS, but that is not used by the AF, so that is not revealing except that he is an egotistical "dummy"!

Don't be mislead by the aircraft he says he's flown. He was primarily an "air to ground" type of fighter pilot (please don't bog down in minutia about what a fighter pilot or is not). He flew the F-111 as his first assignment after pilot training, so he finished quite high in that class. It appears to me that he was an FWS Instructor in the F-111 as that would be one of the very few ways that he flew every model of the tactical version of that aircraft. His logical progression would have been to transition into the F-15E when that became operational. For the other aircraft he lists, it's quite possible that he might have secured a ride or two, but not actually have qualified in those aircraft. That would be what I would suspect. He might have listed those to embellish his career in an attempt to impress someone and satisfy his ego. The AF has and does have MIG type aircraft that are flown by AF Pilots and don't ask any questions about that as they will not be answered. I seriously doubt that he has flown one other than as a "passenger". His career path just doesn't logically allow for that.

Where was he during Gulf War I?:confused: He lists Northern Watch as his combat experience, but that was after GW I. That would have been in the F-15E.

Was he an F-22 Instructor? :cool: He'd have to substantially prove that to me before I'd believe it.

I'm sure more than a few of you realize that this guy held a TS clearance and was subject to HRP and PRP. Of course, that doesn't prevent someone from going "looney" later in life.

I notice his photo has not appeared anywhere that I've seen yet. That would be the best way to verify him by someone who knew or knows him. If he wanders in here, I'll be happy to engage him, but it might prove lengthy as both he and I could claim faded memories in a lot of areas. However, there are some things that are not classified that could not be learned by Internet research in a short period of time. That might prove his undoing if he's not who he says he is.

I will not answer a lot of detailed questions about my background until this is settled as I wouldn't want him to be prepared in any way that he isn't already, if he is NOT who he says he is.

L/C Jeff Latas also subscribes to PFT and has a remotely similar background, but specialized in Accident Investigations among other things. His photo is published. Surely, we can find someone who knows both of these people.

A final point. Please don't list any more personal details for him in this open Forum. If he is not who he says he is make him find the details. If he can't that might prove his undoing if he's fake.

[Reheat]

I just finished listening to the PFT interview with L/C Jeff Latas and I don't have any serious doubts that he is anyone other than who he says he is. He's not a "crackpot" particularly, but simply a misguided Democrat who hasn't had or hasn't taken the time to look at the questions that have been raised. I don't believe he is as gullible as Razor. Razor is a "crackpot", but if he and Latas know one another then he (Razor) is likely real (much to my embarrassment).

[ref]

Welcome to the forum, Reheat :)

Very nice opening post. Identity theft is one possibility, yes. But unfortunately it's also not unlikely, that people from all areas can fall for the truther BS. Good to have you here with us.

[Mr. Skinny]

L/C Jeff Latas also subscribes to PFT and has a remotely similar background, but specialized in Accident Investigations among other things.
Unless he worked at the Air Force Safety Center, I doubt that he "specialized" in Accident Investigations.

A lot of officers serve as members of Mishap Investigation Boards, perhaps even serving as Chairperson. That doesn't mean they specialize in the area.

I can check with the AFSC to see if he is a qualified board member, should that shed any light on this discussion.

[T.A.M.]

I am not sure anyone doubts that Razor is real, as in some guy going by the name of Razor. The questions are about (A) his credentials, and (B) his current status.

Welcome to the forum Reheat.

TAM:)

[Reheat]

Unless he worked at the Air Force Safety Center, I doubt that he "specialized" in Accident Investigations.

A lot of officers serve as members of Mishap Investigation Boards, perhaps even serving as Chairperson. That doesn't mean they specialize in the area.

I can check with the AFSC to see if he is a qualified board member, should that shed any light on this discussion.

Yes, you're right. "Specialized" was a poor choice of words on my part. I fell into the trap of using his words to describe his experience.

Since he's retired, AFSC might not have his information still on file. I have no idea what kind of records they keep. Yes, it is quite possible that he served on an Accident Board, but the President of Accident Boards are normally an 06 (IIRC), so he may be fudging there. That is unless the accidents were really just incidents and he's fudging there, as well. It would not only be interesting to determine what he's done in that area, but it would help to weaken the strength of his credibility.

About the only benefit of further info on this would be that if he's stretching the truth about his Accident Board Credentials. That would be damaging to his credibility. That is surely needed as the credentials will be impressive to SOME people. He would not necessarily have knowledge of NTSB procedures and policy, so let's don't fall into that trap.

He would also not necessarily have knowledge about the Flight Data Recorder or the CVS, but it seems to me he is sorely lacking in common sense. I can see where he might be duped about the altitude and flight path discrepancy if the only info he has is from Pandora's Black Box. It appears that he's an avid fisherman only he's the one who's taken the bait as opposed to using the bait.

He does not come across as a "kook" to me, he's just misinformed, but damaging nonetheless.

[Reheat]

I am not sure anyone doubts that Razor is real, as in some guy going by the name of Razor. The questions are about (A) his credentials, and (B) his current status.

Welcome to the forum Reheat.

TAM:)

Based upon the info from military.com it would seems to me that his credentials are correct, but stretched as I pointed out in my original post. He had the correct AFSC and so on.....

I have no knowledge about what he's currently doing, but that would definitely be very enlightening to know.

[Added] The real Razor might not even be alive for all we know. Unless Latas is telling the truth and surely PFT are not that sloppy in checking that out.... Maybe it's all a waste of time....

I can believe that he drank the Balsamo Kook Kool Aid, but it really defies my comprehension how he could possibly accept anything from unsecured coins. That defies reality!:boggled:

He's an idiot and should destroy himself, Latas sounds more credible.

[Mr. Skinny]

Yes, you're right. "Specialized" was a poor choice of words on my part. I fell into the trap of using his words to describe his experience.
No problem. Just pointing out a possible point of contention.

Since he's retired, AFSC might not have his information still on file. I have no idea what kind of records they keep.
Nor do I at the moment. However, I currently work with three people who worked at the AF Safety Center, so they may have good contacts.
Yes, it is quite possible that he served on an Accident Board, but the President of Accident Boards are normally an 06 (IIRC), so he may be fudging there. That is unless the accidents were really just incidents and he's fudging there, as well. It would not only be interesting to determine what he's done in that area, but it would help to weaken the strength of his credibility.
Yes, O-6's are more common for board president/chairperson, but I wouldn't find an O-5 outside of the realm of probability.

About the only benefit of further info on this would be that if he's stretching the truth about his Accident Board Credentials. That would be damaging to his credibility. That is surely needed as the credentials will be impressive to SOME people. He would not necessarily have knowledge of NTSB procedures and policy, so let's don't fall into that trap.
Agree, intimate knowledge of NTSB P&P would seem unusual for his experience and position.

He would also not necessarily have knowledge about the Flight Data Recorder or the CVS, but it seems to me he is sorely lacking in common sense. I can see where he might be duped about the altitude and flight path discrepancy if the only info he has is from Pandora's Black Box. It appears that he's an avid fisherman only he's the one who's taken the bait as opposed to using the bait.

He does not come across as a "kook" to me, he's just misinformed, but damaging nonetheless.
Agree. Being the president/chairperson of an Investigation Board is not necessarily indicative of any personal knowledge of interpreting FDR/CVS systems. He would usually rely on an expert in that field who was a member of the Investigation Board.

[Reheat]

Agree. Being the president/chairperson of an Investigation Board is not necessarily indicative of any personal knowledge of interpreting FDR/CVS systems. He would usually rely on an expert in that field who was a member of the Investigation Board.

Also, bear in mind that he would likely been on a board within the area of his experience i.e. fighters or fighter bombers which DO NOT have FDR's or CVS's.

I don't really know which other A/C have either one. Perhaps someone with expertise in the heavy arena could help with this....

Bottom line - he never served on a board where either FDR's or CVS's were an issue making his opinion about the FDR or FDR data no better than mine or yours.

[Reheat]

Does anyone here have an account at PFT or anywhere else either of these two jerks guys might be posting?

If they are posting anywhere I will get an account and go ask them a few questions, but I won't waste my time with an account if they're not there.

I'd have to take a shower in something stronger than water afterward. I wonder if Lye soap is still being made? I really wouldn't want to screw with my complexion by using acid even tho' that might not even be enough to get rid of the contamination! :eek:

[Mr. Skinny]

Also, bear in mind that he would likely been on a board within the area of his experience i.e. fighters or fighter bombers which DO NOT have FDR's or CVS's.

I don't really know which other A/C have either one. Perhaps someone with expertise in the heavy arena could help with this....

Bottom line - he never served on a board where either FDR's or CVS's were an issue making his opinion about the FDR or FDR data no better than mine or yours.
I'll assume you are correct that military aircaft don't have FDR's or CVR's in the familiar "black box" sense.

I'm a laboratory safety type, so I'm not familiar with the nuts and bolts of military aircraft, but certainly there is a method of recording aircraft position, altitude, speed, etc. as well as a method of recording a pilot's voice, no? I mean, even cop cars have video cams....

[Reheat]

I'll assume you are correct that military aircaft don't have FDR's or CVR's in the familiar "black box" sense.

That not precisely what I said. I said that Fighters or Fighter Bombers do not have either. I do not know about heavies i.e. Cargo, Tankers, etc. I believe there is a former Tanker Pilot here somewhere, he'd likely know.

Perhaps some of the off the shelf heavy types have them as standard equipment from the manufacturer, I just don't know.

Cop cars can stop at the nearest gas station to refuel anytime they want, Air-to-Air Fighters or Fighter Bombers can't. Space is also an issue. Every ounce, nook, and cranny counts!

Accident Investigators for trainers, fighters, fighter bombers take the instruments (if any are remaining) analyze them and determine the parameters at impact and go back from there. Radar film, INS stored data and/or track can sometimes be used depending upon the type. ATC, GCI, or AWAC's Data would also provide track information.

Audio Recording = None. Who in the heck would want to hear all of the grunts, groans, and farting anyway, not to mention the bad language of fighter pilots pulling G's!:jaw-dropp

[beachnut]

Yet another military person has come out to support the truth movement.

http://www.911blogger.com/node/7482




But who is this guy? I found no info about him. Only that he is on the patriotsquoestion911 list, and stj911.org members list. No photos, no other personal info, nothing.

We have a retired airforce pilot, so I suspected he would talk about NORAD and the military response. But no, he only talks about WTC 7 and repeats all the classic lies. No mention of NORAD or military.

He repeats the classic lines "treasonous perpetrators that have infiltrated the highest levels of our government", "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic" and "expose the real perpetrators of 9/11 and bring them to justice". Does this sound familiar to you? I've heard them a hundred thousand times. Classic Alex Jones material. Sounds almost manufactured by the Jones/Prisonplanet fearmongering factory.

If he is a USAF guy, why has he flown a Russian manufactured fighter MIG, and what is SUU-22? These might be stupid questions, but I just wondered.

I'm not saying this guy is a fraud. He might just be a mislead person who took the CT bait.

But the question that arised is, could it be possible that the truth movement would boost their rankings by adding fictional personalities to their lists? They lie all the time anyway. Why not add a few credible sounding people, who comment topics such as WTC 7 but not military actions, although they are fighter pilots. And repeat all the classic lies and catch phrases.
You can look up his stuff at the FAA, he lives in a trailer park on government property I thought, when I looked up his FAA paper work. YOu go to FAA, and enter his name, enter self for business or what ever.

https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airmeninquiry/ (https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airmeninquiry/)

Enter your stuff, then put in Guy Razer when it asks and you can see he still lives in a trailer park or he is not current with the FAA. ((Zip Code 89125-9999))

If anyone needs help with this I can look it up and pm it.

Good news is he is not flying commercial! You need a 6 month medical for flying commercial. He is not an ATP rated guy so he can not be a Captain, and he has not been a current Instructor since 82.

You can look up all the p4t guys and find a pool of old guys like me, over the hill, but they seem to have lost touch with reality and rational thinking. If I ever find myself in that boat, I can just read some post here, and snap back. Thank you much.

[Pope130]

That not precisely what I said. I said that Fighters or Fighter Bombers do not have either. I do not know about heavies i.e. Cargo, Tankers, etc. I believe there is a former Tanker Pilot here somewhere, he'd likely know.



Reheat,
Hi and welcome to the forum. I'm not a former Tanker Pilot, will a former Flight Engineer do? The C-130E (my bird) had a CVR and a limited flight data recorder. The FDR only covered about a dozen parameters as I recall. The CVR recorded inter-phone and radio, as well as an area mic on the flight deck. It records the last thirty minutes, so you have to be careful to keep power to the system for at least half an hour after your last screw-up.
Later models like the J-Bird and the heavies have an FDR that covers a great many more parameters.
Once again, welcome to the forum. (We could have a whole crew here soon.)

Robert Klaus MSgt USAF Ret

[Reheat]

You can look up his stuff at the FAA, he lives in a trailer park on government property I thought, when I looked up his FAA paper work.

Good Grief! I just google earthed (yes it's now a verb) his address and it very well may be the Nellis' Family Campground. That's not fact, so don't take it as such, but based on it's proximity to Nellis and it's name, I'd guess it might be.

Must have lost big in a divorce! :eek: I wonder what else he lost? :eye-poppi

[Reheat]

Reheat,
Hi and welcome to the forum. I'm not a former Tanker Pilot, will a former Flight Engineer do?

Thanks for the kind welcome, not only to you, but for all others who have welcomed me, as well.

Heck, you likely know more about systems than I do!:p Bet you haven't pulled as many G's as I have tho'.

Maybe that's what wrong with our erstwhile aviators, they pulled a G too many and lost a marble or two from the top of the stack!

[Reheat]

You can look up all the p4t guys and find a pool of old guys like me, over the hill, but they seem to have lost touch with reality and rational thinking. If I ever find myself in that boat, I can just read some post here, and snap back. Thank you much.

Heck, if I'd lost that much touch with reality, I'd probably go looking for a 2X6 to pound on the side of my head. Have you seen Razor's MySpace stuff? On second thought don't bother, just watch reruns of Twilight Zone for a week and you'll be right in touch.

[beachnut]

Heck, if I'd lost that much touch with reality, I'd probably go looking for a 2X6 to pound on the side of my head. Have you seen Razor's MySpace stuff? On second thought don't bother, just watch reruns of Twilight Zone for a week and you'll be right in touch.
What was that link? I think I did see it once, and you are correct, it was worthless. But I bet some truthers will find some solace there.

Okay, how many gs did you pull? I only pulled 7.33 gs while chasing clouds. In the KC-135 I never got close to 2 gs, old planes need a break.

[Reheat]

What was that link? I think I did see it once, and you are correct, it was worthless. But I bet some truthers will find some solace there.

Okay, how many gs did you pull? I only pulled 7.33 gs while chasing clouds. In the KC-135 I never got close to 2 gs, old planes need a break.

You need to specify my age in that question! The older I got the less I pulled unless it was absolutely necessary. I really don't know because I never stared at the G Meter. I'd guess 6 or 7. I flew in an F-16 on a range trip late in my career and felt like I had been bear hugged by a sumo wrestler, afterward.

Oh, before I forget. Razor mentioned the F-16 was like riding on a "magic carpet". I guess I found that odd as I've never heard anyone say that. It didn't really fit with his Grand Canyon sized ego either. Oh well, stranger things exist. And the twoofers seem to find all of them....

[leftysergeant]

Razer has seen a terrain-following MISSILE in one of the videos! Not big enough hole, no parts, no bodies, airplanes don't vapourise. Advanced weapons... some sort of shaped charge with depleted uranium because of "how they cleaned it up" (suits, respirators, decon etc). "Non-melted computer" right next to it. God, this is depressing.

No smoking gun, but at least an ejected cartridge. The non-melted computer rules out any high explosives, as does the narrowing cone of the debris field inside the building. The punch-out hole is full of aircraft scrap. No DU penetrator there. There is nothing in any of the videos to suggest a missile. The smoke or vapor trail in the shot just priot to impact is obviously rolling in waves, as it would under the wing of a large aircraft. Missile exhaust would be more a straight line, maybe with rings in it.

"I'm a demolitions expert. I'm a fighter weapons school instructor, I know about explosives". I think the expression goes "O rly?"


See above.

On the low altitude approach of the airliner; "I had a hard time flying under 100ft". Not much call for that in the types he flew of course, although I've seen it done by many fast jet pilots. Hell, just search Youtube (low flying Harriers is a doozy). The point of course is that the terrorist pilot didn't actually have to worry about avoiding anything.


My first hitch was as a fire fighter in the Air Force. That meant that I had to do line stand-by for a lot of special operations, like the Thunderbirds. Nothing they do is beyond the training of a normal fighter pilot, including buzzing the runway at about twenty-five feet.

At Pope AFB, I often stood by for LAPES drills, in which a cargo aircraft came within 15 of the drop zone and shoved a pallet-loaded M 113 out the back.


Smells a little like a pile of woo to me.

[Reheat]

Smells a little like a pile of woo to me.

Yes, it does! :faint:

There is NO WAY that he can identify anything much less and missile like he says in the video that has been published. What he says is pure bravado (BS).

There are not world records for low level flying, only ties! :jaw-dropp

All NATO fighter/fighter bomber forces and some others advocated and trained pilots and crews in low flying tactics with the advent of the improving Soviet Surface to Air (SAM) Missles during the Cold War. IIRC it was the introduction of the SA-6 that it became even more entrenched as a standard tactic of every NATO Nation's Military. The USAF was no exception.

Razor began flying the F-111 in about 1982/83 at the latest, so he has many, many hours of ultra low level flying. Below 100' was ALWAYS in violation of Official Policy, but I'll guarantee you that he has done that on numerous occasions. For an experienced pilot it was not difficult, but obviously quite dangerous.

Low Level Tactics became less important at the end of the Cold War (No Soviet threat) and were not used extensively during Desert Storm for a multitude of reasons, but mostly due to Iraqi incompetence and the improvement of

Ground effect is most prominent and most noticeable when landing with high angles of attack, not at high speed as some misinformation specialists contend. High wing loaded aircraft (F-111) are much easier and more comfortable than low wing loaded aircraft (B-757). Low wing loaded aircraft during the cable and pulley days would have had difficulty, not due to ground effect, but due to turbulence. However, a low wing loaded aircraft with a computerized flight control (B-757) would not be extremely difficult for short duration especially if your objective were to crash into the building in front of you.

All this is just my opinion and I disagree with Razor on these issues that have been raised. My experience is similar and my credentials near parallel with his...

[Corsair 115]

Also, bear in mind that he would likely been on a board within the area of his experience i.e. fighters or fighter bombers which DO NOT have FDR's or CVS's.Isn't the gun camera footage recorded though? I can still remember such footage from when a pair of F-14s mixed it up with some Libyan fighters back in 1989 I think it was. The footage showed the HUD display, which lists the airspeed, altitude, and heading, so it's a sort of FDR and CVR rolled into one, albeit a much simplified one.

[firecoins]

I looked at the first post. I am curious why this guy focuses on #7. His expertise if his credentials are not fradulet would be the Air Forces ability to intercept jets, shoot down flight 93 or shoot a cruise missle at the Pentagon. A controlled dem of #7 probably shouldn't be his focus.

[Reheat]

Isn't the gun camera footage recorded though? I can still remember such footage from when a pair of F-14s mixed it up with some Libyan fighters back in 1989 I think it was. The footage showed the HUD display, which lists the airspeed, altitude, and heading, so it's a sort of FDR and CVR rolled into one, albeit a much simplified one.

Well yes, "gun camera" film (loosely described) would be recorded, but only, if the gun were being used and or if a Air-to-Air Missile were being employed. It would record the HUD displayed flight data. Also, if you've seen any film from either GW I or GW II of weapons delivery, etc. it was a similar "gun camera" type film which would show the HUD and flight parameters in the view. However, it's not even remotely similar to an FDR and it's purpose is not for anything related to accidents. For the F-14/Libyan Mig engagement audio I suspect you are recalling audio recorded from the ship, not from something that was in one of the aircraft.

The same would apply to radar, laser designator, and IR scopes recordings which would also have some parameters recorded or various other reconnaissance type cameras which would have no parameters recorded and are activated by either a manual switch or via a connection with the weapons delivery system. For example, on Aircraft that deliver Air-to-Ground ordnance a downward looking camera (wide angle fore/aft coverage) would record ordnance release and impact for use in Bomb Damage Assessment (not only bombs, but other ordnance even tho' it is termed BDA). It would have no flight parameters recorded. Again, all of this stuff is for operation purposes and not for anything related to accidents.

Each aircraft type may have something a little different based upon it's mission and I'm generalizing a lot here, but the point being made is that there are no FDR's or CVR's in Fighters or Fighter Bombers.

[leftysergeant]

It also reeks to high heaven of woo that he claims to see the effects of a missile strike at the Pentagon. No known explosive device could possibly print the outlines of 757 wings on the front of a building and scatter wreckage in a narrowing pattern through the interior. I think Razer has been sharing Major General Stubblebine's stash. Find out what they were smoking and warn your kids never to touch that brain-wasting happy smoke.

[Reheat]

It also reeks to high heaven of woo that he claims to see the effects of a missile strike at the Pentagon. No known explosive device could possibly print the outlines of 757 wings on the front of a building and scatter wreckage in a narrowing pattern through the interior. I think Razer has been sharing Major General Stubblebine's stash. Find out what they were smoking and warn your kids never to touch that brain-wasting happy smoke.

Maybe we can talk "W" into an executive order requiring a "pee" sample in order for them to receive their retirements checks!:boxedin:

[Mikeaug]

Guy Razer has been living in a tent near the "dog walk" area of the Sigsbee (Key West Naval air Station) MWR RV Park for the last few months. He spent his days in the Morale Welfare and Recreation (near the WI FI antenna) office working on his computer. Most of the retired Lt.Cols travel in motorhomes and 5th wheel travel trailers and are socially active. Razer is very reclusive.

[Mikeaug]

Continuing - some speculation about Guy Razer. From his blog and educated guesses.

1958 - Birth year
1975 - Graduated HS in CA
1980 - Graduated Embry Riddle Aeronautical Univ (AZ)
1982 - Entered USAF
1995 - Graduated ERAU with Masters in Aero Studies
1996 - Graduated Air Command & Staff College
2002 - Retired from USAF

There was a two year break between ERAU graduation and entering the USAF. It may have been a delayed pilot training class entry and / or ERAU flight instructors job. This would account for him having a pilots license in the FAA records. His CFI expired in 1982.

IMHO he flunked out of pilot training and was sent to Navigator /Electronics Warfare school. Thereafter he was a EWO in Wild Weasel F-16, F-15 and Weapons System Officer (NAV/EWO) in the B-1. The other airplanes he cites were ones he got a ride in. His claimed instructor jobs may be true but he was there in the NAV/EWO capacity not as a pilot.

Graduating from ACSC at the fourteen year point is suspect. Most Major attend ACSC at about eleven years commissioned service.

Since he has access to military bases, he is either retired military or 100% disabled Vet. Unfortunately there are a number of the latter who are just above the "living under the bridge" status. IMHO he he never made it to retirement but has 100% disability because of a mental condition. This seems to fit his reclusive "poor" lifestyle, exaggerated posts and conspiracy advocacy.

Anyone have access to a list by year of ERAU graduates and/or a 1996 ACSC Yearbook ? Might have more info.

[beachnut]

Guy Razer has been living in a tent near the "dog walk" area of the Sigsbee (Key West Naval air Station) MWR RV Park for the last few months. He spent his days in the Morale Welfare and Recreation (near the WI FI antenna) office working on his computer. Most of the retired Lt.Cols travel in motorhomes and 5th wheel travel trailers and are socially active. Razer is very reclusive.
I better get out more.

Welcome.

Guy is said "After 4+ years of research since retirement in 2002, I am 100% convinced that the attacks of September 11, 2001 were planned, organized, and committed by treasonous perpetrators that have infiltrated the highest levels of our government. It is now time to take our country back.
Hope he can vote so he can take his country back. Gee, does the NWO know he is getting a check and he is in the truth movment? I guess a few wives could have got him first.

[ElMondoHummus]

Welcome to the forum, Mikeaug, and good info. Data like that is always welcome here.

[beachnut]

FAA still list him as Clark County in NV, he has not updated his FAA stuff.

[JonnyFive]

Continuing - some speculation about Guy Razer. From his blog and educated guesses.

1958 - Birth year
1975 - Graduated HS in CA
1980 - Graduated Embry Riddle Aeronautical Univ (AZ)
1982 - Entered USAF
1995 - Graduated ERAU with Masters in Aero Studies
1996 - Graduated Air Command & Staff College
2002 - Retired from USAF

There was a two year break between ERAU graduation and entering the USAF. It may have been a delayed pilot training class entry and / or ERAU flight instructors job. This would account for him having a pilots license in the FAA records. His CFI expired in 1982.

IMHO he flunked out of pilot training and was sent to Navigator /Electronics Warfare school. Thereafter he was a EWO in Wild Weasel F-16, F-15 and Weapons System Officer (NAV/EWO) in the B-1. The other airplanes he cites were ones he got a ride in. His claimed instructor jobs may be true but he was there in the NAV/EWO capacity not as a pilot.

Graduating from ACSC at the fourteen year point is suspect. Most Major attend ACSC at about eleven years commissioned service.

Since he has access to military bases, he is either retired military or 100% disabled Vet. Unfortunately there are a number of the latter who are just above the "living under the bridge" status. IMHO he he never made it to retirement but has 100% disability because of a mental condition. This seems to fit his reclusive "poor" lifestyle, exaggerated posts and conspiracy advocacy.

Anyone have access to a list by year of ERAU graduates and/or a 1996 ACSC Yearbook ? Might have more info.

Solid research, Mike, but it's got a few holes. Allow me:

1958-Arrived in a space capsule from his dying planet.
1974 - Totally made out with the hottest girl in the school.
1981 - Legally changed name from "William C. Plopswarth" to "Guy S. Razer."
1984 - Met Batman and Spiderman and possibly the Hulk.
1993 - Saved the world from alien invasion. Twice.
1995 - Read "War and Peace" in, like, two days with 400% comprehension.
1998 - Invented and subsequently saved the world from a virus that turns people into zombies.
2001 - Personally flew six F-15s in the hours after the 9/11 attacks in case the Jews tried something else. Oh yeah, he flew them at the same time using his mind powers.

I'm personally committed to sorting out the facts from the fictions of the real the Right Hon. Rev. Lt. Col. Lord Gen. Sir Guy Superman L. P. M. Razer, Esq., Baron of Glouchester.

[Mikeaug]

FAA still list him as Clark County in NV, he has not updated his FAA stuff.

I believe that location is the Nellis AFB FAMCAMP. He seems to travel from one MWR camping facility to another.