Warning: Jackchit threatens Gravy!

[Oliver]

This is the most difficult post I have ever written, Today I had a knock at the door from social services, 2 nice ladies told me that they were acting on an anonymous (cowardly) tip off that my children were in danger, they were not too specific but told me they had to act on all tips so could they come meet my kids.

I told them they were more than welcome and after a brief conversation they met with Emmy (9) and Daniel (14).
To cut a long story short they left with the knowledge that we are a happy family with no reason for concern as my kids are happy, well looked after and very healthy.
Now for the reason for my post….. I know that this campaign http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=77281 (http://stealth.co.in/nph-stealth.cgi/111110A/687474702s666s72756q732r72616r64692r6s72672s73686s 777468726561642r7068703s743q3737323831)
The posters at j-ref were trying to get me investigated for the way I’m bringing up my children.

Posting on forums is one thing but when you try to break up my family then it crosses the line so here is what I intend to do, I am visiting NYC in the next few months and will be actively seeking out gravy who seems to be the spiritual leader of these loons.

Mark…. I know you read this forum so bear this in mind, one day whilst you are showing people around the city you will see lots of pairs of eyes but one day you will look into a pair of eyes that will be mine and you know instantly that you will never forget my eyes because they will be the last thing you see.

I know you don’t have children because lets face it who would reproduce with such a cretin, so you cannot even comprehend my resolve.
You **** with my family….game over, so be vigilant.

BTW if any of the j-ref from the uk are man enough to face the person they accuse then e-mail me admin@beckhamcoverup.com (http://stealth.co.in/nph-stealth.cgi/111110A/687474702s61646q696r406265636o68616q636s7665727570 2r636s6q) and we can dance.

So j-ref’rs are you mice or men, oh and gravy……see you real soon..




http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6799

[Oliver]

You know what this means?
THIS GUY >IS< A JEOPARDY FOR HIS KIDS!

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Screen-shotted.

[T.A.M.]

Has someone saved that page. Gravy I would advise you to bring this to the authorities. This is a direct threat on your life.

TAM:(

[Oliver]

Screen-shotted.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1110746129805d1dd0.gif

[ConspiRaider]

So, in summary:

We have a guy threatening to kill Gravy, via a message board post.

We have Dylan Avery, who runs that message board, providing information to assist the poster in that endeavor.

To which the poster thanks Dylan Avery for the assist.

Some legal line has to have been crossed here.

[T.A.M.]

Dylan, if you are at all a decent human being you will ban this user, and report his threat on the life of Mark Roberts. He has posted a threat to another human beings life on YOUR FORUM. If you do not report it, than I hope someone less cowardly does report it to the people who run your forum. Obviously this is a breech of their TOS laws.

TAM:(

[rebecca]

Holy crap. Can someone forward that to the police in that guy's home town?

[westprog]

You know what this means?
THIS GUY >IS< A JEOPARDY FOR HIS KIDS!



I wouldn't necessarily believe anything Jackchit writes. Among a bunch of fairly deranged people he stands out as a psychotic.

While I wouldn't worry about this especially - I'm sure he's got a long, long list of enemies on whom he's planning revenge - it's certainly not something to let go. That's a very explicit threat of violence.

[rwguinn]

http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6799

So, I'm trying to figure out why he blames Gravy?
Someone else started that thread here.

"Paranoia strikes deep/into your life it will creep"

[ConspiRaider]

Please ensure the entire thread is preserved, including Dylan Avery's response.

[R.Mackey]

Another sterling example of the paranoia, cowardice, and bad judgment of the Idiot Movement.

I agree, this is a plainly worded threat, and should be given to the authorities. Even though I very much doubt he's doing anything other than issuing idle threats, safe in his keyboard fortress.

[T.A.M.]

Beyond the fact that you will do nothing with your film if you are busy fighting this shaite in court, you have a moral obligation to report this Dylan, and to remove the offending individual from your forum.

TAM:(

[HyJinX]

Dylan Avery condones this behavior by telling where Jackchit can find Gravy

[T.A.M.]

Another sterling example of the paranoia, cowardice, and bad judgment of the Idiot Movement.

I agree, this is a plainly worded threat, and should be given to the authorities. Even though I very much doubt he's doing anything other than issuing idle threats, safe in his keyboard fortress.

with threats like this, he should be forced to utter them without a computer, from behind the steel bars of a prison fortress.

TAM:(

[T.A.M.]

So Dylan Avery is now condoning the MURDER of another human being, by telling someone who has threatened to kill Mark Roberts, where he can be found each week...real nice Dylan.

TAM

[Jaguar]

Personally, I would never be stupid enough to threaten someone on the internet. But I underatand how this guy feels. If somebody sent the social services to my house I would certainly hospitalise them. I just wouldn't give them a warning first.

I think it is about time something was done about this subforum.

[T.A.M.]

Jackchit@LCF (Saved for posterity):

"Mark…. I know you read this forum so bear this in mind, one day whilst you are showing people around the city you will see lots of pairs of eyes but one day you will look into a pair of eyes that will be mine and you know instantly that you will never forget my eyes because they will be the last thing you see.

I know you don’t have children because lets face it who would reproduce with such a cretin, so you cannot even comprehend my resolve.
You **** with my family….game over, so be vigilant."

Bolding mine.

TAM

[ConspiRaider]

Dylan Avery had better pray to God that nothing happens to Mark Roberts. His response in this thread can easily be pointed to as accessory.

Dylan, if I were you? I'd provide a phalanx of security guards for Mark, 24/7.

[Kent1]

Dylan Avery condones this behavior by telling where Jackchit can find Gravy
I was a little shocked at that also.

It was like...go get em...I'll tell you where he is.
:eek:

[T.A.M.]

Personally, I would never be stupid enough to threaten someone on the internet. But I underatand how this guy feels. If somebody sent the social services to my house I would certainly hospitalise them. I just wouldn't give them a warning first.

I think it is about time something was done about this subforum.

No, that is bull****. If he wishes to persue legal action against those who sent Social Services to his door, than let him.

If you ask me, those who did so, likely did because they felt his children were in danger. If I recall, it all started because he was stating how it was a blessing that his wife died, because she was an obstacle to his research and activity in the truth movement.

If you know a child is in potentially in danger of abuse or physical harm, and you refuse to report it, you yourself can be charged with a crime.

TAM

Please do not use alternate spelling to get around the auto-censor.

[~enigma~]

Personally, I would never be stupid enough to threaten someone on the internet. But I underatand how this guy feels. If somebody sent the social services to my house I would certainly hospitalise them. I just wouldn't give them a warning first.

I think it is about time something was done about this subforum.
Wait a damn minute...you think that is is this forums fault? Are you psychotic? That's a rhetorical question :)

[R.Mackey]

Personally, I would never be stupid enough to threaten someone on the internet. But I underatand how this guy feels. If somebody sent the social services to my house I would certainly hospitalise them. I just wouldn't give them a warning first.

I think it is about time something was done about this subforum.

Ooh, how ominous.

[mortimer]

Please ensure the entire thread is preserved, including Dylan Avery's response.

Done. (http://scott.ashcraft.com/2007-04-03_131927.png)

[westprog]

So Dylan Avery is now condoning the MURDER of another human being, by telling someone who has threatened to kill Mark Roberts, where he can be found each week...real nice Dylan.

TAM

The fact that Avery is dumb enough to not see that making a death threat is a serious matter says a lot about his grasp of reality. That Jackchit's deranged grudge has nothing to do with 911 doesn't matter to him. By furnishing information to assist someone making death threats, he's a potential accessory to murder.

Jackchit is almost certainly just mouthing off, but that doesn't excuse Avery.

[A W Smith]

He will never arrive in this country. he probably just made the terrorist list. he will have to swim.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Deleting it won't help them now:
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=94587285&blogID=248917759&MyToken=a07f051f-328f-4c06-811c-b2443d88fc33
http://arkanwolfshade.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!9E151F6EB6C7A35D!349.entry

[rebecca]

So, someone here called protective services, so they must know the community this guy lives in, right? The police should be notified.

[Oliver]

So, someone here called protective services, so they must know the community this guy lives in, right? The police should be notified.

...or:

...someone call O'Reilly!!!

:p

[John Blonn]

Wow.

In one breath: I'm a good father! Really!

In the next: Death threats.

Cognitive dissonance...?

[uk_dave]

Jackchit is not really a UK citizen...he's probably french or something.

[Arus808]

the thread is funny. jackchit says its a 'promise' . its no longer a threat guys.

[Redtail]

1. Why does he think mark did it?

2. I really don't believe him. He seems like an attention starved, drama queen and is making this stuff up so he can get a little spotlight.

[ChristineR]

The irony of this is that now he will in fact lose the kids.

Ouch.

[mortimer]

As we are discussing screenshotting of LC posts, thought I'd hype this little tool:

http://www.faststone.org/FSCaptureDetail.htm

Lets you capture an entire webpage including the portions of the page that have scrolled outside the window boundaries.

[ConspiRaider]

Somebody get this to the Mainstream Media Tycoon Twoofer ROSIE. I think she should be aware of the tactics used by those good folks seeking "truth".

What's your View on this, Ms. O?

[FactCheck]

Gravy, if you ever go to the city let me know.

[Pardalis]

1. Why does he think mark did it?


Good question. In the thread he posted a link to there's nothing indicating that Mark contacted anybody.

Must be because he's the most vocal debunker.

[uk_dave]

I am 100% behind you on this. Gravy is scum. The world would be better without him.

I dunno where tonicblue comes from, unless he is pdoh!, in which case he is also french.

But seriously, I know I might (am) giving the 'truthers' more credit than they deserve, but they all have a hate on for Gravy....for what?

For shining the harsh light of reality onto their fantasies. That's all.

Gravy does not have access to priviledged information, he is just is a good researcher with a talent for being able to use in debate the information he has found.

If getting rid of Gravy is all that stands between the 'truth' movement and global success, then they are in very dire straits indeed.

'truthers', think about it (if you can).

[Jaguar]

The irony of this is that now he will in fact lose the kids.

Ouch.

Dream on. I can't see a threat in that post.

I notice nobody here has commented on the fact that this forum sent social services round to this guys hous and they left satisfied with what they saw.

What would rosie think of the tactics pseudo-skeptics are using?

[T.A.M.]

Tonicblue, who has posted here, has condoned Jackchits threats, advising to keep his murder plans secret from now on. He also says he could care less if we all die. I'll be sure to remember that the next time you ever decide to post here.

My tolerance for these criminals is growing thin.

TAM

[Pardalis]

I dunno where tonicblue comes from, unless he is pdoh!, in which case he is also french.

Pdoherty76 is from Manchester UK BTW.

[Minadin]

Tonicblue, who was recently suspended here (mysteriously), weighs in:

Jackchit it was Mobyseven behind the social services call. I argued about it with him at jref.

I also sent an email to James Randi himself in which I told him what his forum was planning to do. I recieved no reply from Randi and was promptly suspended at JREF without reason.

I am 100% behind you on this. Gravy is scum. The world would be better without him.

I can only wonder what was contained in that email to Mr. Randi, if he's the sort of person who is willing to openly advocate the murder of a private citizen on an internet forum. Classy.

[Pardalis]

Dream on. I can't see a threat in that post.

I notice nobody here has commented on the fact that this forum sent social services round to this guys hous and they left satisfied with what they saw.

What would rosie think of the tactics pseudo-skeptics are using?

You still haven't introduced yourself Jaguar.

[T.A.M.]

Dream on. I can't see a threat in that post.

I notice nobody here has commented on the fact that this forum sent social services round to this guys hous and they left satisfied with what they saw.

What would rosie think of the tactics pseudo-skeptics are using?

That doesnt surprise me, given truthers can't see the real truth when it hits them in the face.

TAM

[John Blonn]

LOL JAGUAR!

I'd love to hear how your finely developed hermeneutics interprets this sentence:

"Mark…. I know you read this forum so bear this in mind, one day whilst you are showing people around the city you will see lots of pairs of eyes but one day you will look into a pair of eyes that will be mine and you know instantly that you will never forget my eyes because they will be the last thing you see."

What do you think that means?

[Lisa Simpson]

Dream on. I can't see a threat in that post.

I notice nobody here has commented on the fact that this forum sent social services round to this guys hous and they left satisfied with what they saw.

What would rosie think of the tactics pseudo-skeptics are using?

Where is the evidence that is was someone from this forum who called social services on him?

[Anti-sophist]

Dream on. I can't see a threat in that post.

He says he will personally go to NYC and seek out a specific individual. He then proceeds to use highly threatening language. The part that has crossed the line is actually the first part, not the second.


I notice nobody here has commented on the fact that this forum sent social services round to this guys hous and they left satisfied with what they saw.


This forum did no such thing, you clown. One person did. Blaming it on a "forum" is ****ing irrational. Making death threats against Gravy "because he is the spiritual leader" is ****ing psychotic.

[T.A.M.]

The support he is getting for openly threatening to harm another human being, is proof of their lack of reasoning capability.

1. IF, if S.S. was called, and really did show up, they did so for the best interests of the children. According to Jackchit, they left satisfied, and nothing more was said or done...so...

Does that warrant the murder of another human being?


TAM

[Anti-sophist]

The sad part is that the first call to social services might have been specious, but the next call is going to be entirely justified.

[Bobert]

If someone has not done so already then I would suggest alerting invisionfree.

They will take action against Dylan and this could result in the board being shut down.

I am shocked that after reading that to see Dylan respond the way he did.
Gravy would never do that to Dylan and JREF would never tolerate such a thing.

Dylan is a complete scumbag and Jackchit needs to face the police and lots of bullets from the police.

[Dog Town]

Dream on. I can't see a threat in that post.

I notice nobody here has commented on the fact that this forum sent social services round to this guys hous and they left satisfied with what they saw.

What would rosie think of the tactics pseudo-skeptics are using?

Since when is having called social services illegal? No threat? You are so confused!

[stateofgrace]

Dream on. I can't see a threat in that post.

I notice nobody here has commented on the fact that this forum sent social services round to this guys hous and they left satisfied with what they saw.

What would rosie think of the tactics pseudo-skeptics are using?

No?

Neither was this I suppose?

Hey UK DAVE are you man enough to take up Jackchits challenge? Of course not. I personally wouldnt give a toss if those despicable jrefers died a horrible death. They may do when the truth on 911 is out.

They are running scared and this is what they have to resort to.


You should grow up son, some guy gets the social popping round and death threats are issued against members on this forum.

I am from the UK pal; I did not have anything to do with the social going to this guy’s house.

Yet all of a sudden I am despicable and deserve a horrible death right?

[A W Smith]

What are the TOS for invision?

[Donal]

1) Did anyone actualy call Child Services on here? I hope not, but there is no proof of it.

2) So what? They seemed to satisfied with your parenting. Brag about it and use it as a victory.

3) It wasn't Gravy that did it, so what is the point of threatening him?

4) Wouldn't it be wiser to use legal methods, such as harrassment charges rather than big winded, thinly veiled death threats over the internet?

5) I think this loser was just talking trash, but I'm pretty sure assaulting Gravy in real life would pretty much cost him custody of his kids.

[Minadin]

Jackchit needs to face the police and lots of bullets from the police.


Hold on there, because that could be taken as advocating violence and harm, also. We don't really need to go down that road ourselves.

[DarkMagician]

Dream on. I can't see a threat in that post.
Mark…. I know you read this forum so bear this in mind, one day whilst you are showing people around the city you will see lots of pairs of eyes but one day you will look into a pair of eyes that will be mine and you know instantly that you will never forget my eyes because they will be the last thing you see.
(emphasis mine)

<snip>

What would rosie think of the tactics pseudo-skeptics are using?

Since it didn't involve Bush or a cheeseburger, I believe she'll remain uninterested.

[westprog]

Where is the evidence that is was someone from this forum who called social services on him?

We know the kind of views they have on evidence. Jackchit just looks for the person he's been persecuting.

I don't find it that shocking that Jackchit would behave like this. It is disturbing that afaict not one of the LC posters has any problem with what he posted. And they don't see "last thing you'll ever see" as being threatening.

[John Blonn]

They are sick. The combination of groupthink, LCF as echo chamber, and general nuttery has started their tailspin out of control and dangerously into real life.

[ConspiRaider]

Hold on there, because that could be taken as advocating violence and harm, also. We don't really need to go down that road ourselves.
Correct.

Hey JackChit: I'm a JREFer, and I sincerely hope you live to the ripe old age of 120 years. And that at least 118 of them are happy. Deal with it. And extricate yourself immediately by telling Dylan Avery, concerning your death threat post, to "pull it".

[Redtail]

We know the kind of views they have on evidence. Jackchit just looks for the person he's been persecuting.

I don't find it that shocking that Jackchit would behave like this. It is disturbing that afaict not one of the LC posters has any problem with what he posted. And they don't see "last thing you'll ever see" as being threatening.

Well it's not like he said he'd "pull" him.

[Anti-sophist]

Hey JackChit: I'm a JREFer,

That's where he stopped reading. After all, "jref" is the one who called the cops on him. He has exactly as much evidence against you as he does against Gravy.

[Alt+F4]

I notice nobody here has commented on the fact that this forum sent social services round to this guys hous and they left satisfied with what they saw.

Do you have any proof that it was someone from this forum?

I don't know how it's handled in the UK but in the US certain professions (doctors, nurses, teachers) are mandatory reporters, meaning they are legally obligated to report suspected child abuse. If they don't then they can be held libel.

Of course mandatory reporters in the US have no obligation regarding what goes on in the UK and I doubt UK social services would be too concerned with a tip from "a yank".

If you visit his website you'll see that he's already made quite a few enemies, none having to do with 9/11.

[T.A.M.]

I also dont think the idiots over there realize that if something happens to Gravy, as a result, the police can force the ISP to provide the personal details of those who "cheered him on".

TAM:(

[Minadin]

How on earth could you NOT take this as a threat?

here is what I intend to do, I am visiting NYC in the next few months and will be actively seeking out gravy
Mark…. I know you read this forum so bear this in mind, one day whilst you are showing people around the city you will see lots of pairs of eyes but one day you will look into a pair of eyes that will be mine and you know instantly that you will never forget my eyes because they will be the last thing you see.
I know you don’t have children because lets face it who would reproduce with such a cretin, so you cannot even comprehend my resolve.
You **** with my family….game over, so be vigilant.
So j-ref’rs are you mice or men, oh and gravy……see you real soon..

Whether or not you actually believe he is going to follow through, is sort of beside the point.

[T.A.M.]

Do you have any proof that it was someone from this forum?

I don't know how it's handled in the UK but in the US certain professions (doctors, nurses, teachers) are mandatory reporters, meaning they are legally obligated to report suspected child abuse. If they don't then they can be held libel.

Of course mandatory reporters in the US have no obligation regarding what goes on in the UK and I doubt UK social services would be too concerned with a tip from "a yank".

If you visit his website you'll see that he's already made quite a few enemies, none having to do with 9/11.

While the law doesnt address internet threats, as far as I know, you are correct. If this guy were in Canada, I would have been required by law to report it to the proper authorities if I felt he was a threat to his children. His rights are superseded by the rights of the childs right to protection from harm.

As he was from the UK, I had no responsibility legally to do so. Though I was tempted to find out where he lived and do so...I did not.

What Jackchit fails to realise is that if they were called it was for the benefit of the children. In a way I am sure he can never fatholm, the person who called was likely doing so out of the goodness of their hearts.

Sad really.

TAM:(

[ConspiRaider]

That's where he stopped reading. After all, "jref" is the one who called the cops on him. He has exactly as much evidence against you as he does against Gravy.
Roger your last.

And if some knucklehead who happens to post at the JREF forum is hassling this guy - then JackChit deals with that person specifically. Cowardly behavior to transfer his ire to Mark Roberts. Worse than cowardly to threaten Mark with death. Lunacy to broad brush all JREFers.

[T.A.M.]

do not forget that an assault, a threat, is determined by how it is percieved by the recipient, not the threatener.

TAM

[Hokulele]

Someone should send these screen grabs over to Mark Cuban, especially Dylan's response, so Cuban can see exactly what he is getting into.

[HeyLeroy]

Screencaps:

tonicblue encouraging jackchit: http://liveu-12.vo.llnwd.net/vidilife/image/2006/10/10/946639/1182812L.png

tonicblue counselling jackchit to stop posting threats if he's going to carry them out:
http://liveu-14.vo.llnwd.net/vidilife/image/2006/10/10/946639/1182814L.png

[Pardalis]

Screencaps:

tonicblue encouraging jackchit: http://liveu-12.vo.llnwd.net/vidilife/image/2006/10/10/946639/1182812L.png

tonicblue counselling jackchit to stop posting threats if he's going to carry them out:
http://liveu-14.vo.llnwd.net/vidilife/image/2006/10/10/946639/1182814L.png

This leaves no doubt.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Where is the evidence that is was someone from this forum who called social services on him?
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2440539#post2440539

[Anti-sophist]

The bizarre part is how the simpletons there just assume Gravy called Social Services when even jackchit admits in his opening post that he's only going after Gravy because he blames "jref" and gravy "seems to be the spiritual leader".

What we have here is a whole bunch of people with their mental problems on full display.

[pchams]

Man you guys are easy.
Since when does anyone believe anything that guy says.
Does he even have kids, or a wife who has passed?
What makes you think social services actually visited his house?
Evidence before conclusions.

[T.A.M.]

I thnk if Jackchit is really a man, and not a psychopath or mental child, he should simply post a public withdrawl of his threats, make a statement about how angry is that this happened, and simply drop it.

I know this won't likely happen, but I feel he is going down a path he will not be able to come back from.

And if he carries out on his threats, he will guarantee that the "break up" of his family will occur, as he will go to prison, and the break up will be his fault.

very sad

TAM

[Lisa Simpson]

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2440539#post2440539

Well, he said he would call a contact in Social Services and see what they say. That's different from "I've called Social Services on this guy".

[HyJinX]

Someone should send these screen grabs over to Mark Cuban, especially Dylan's response, so Cuban can see exactly what he is getting into.


mark.cuban@dallasmavs.com

[rwguinn]

Man you guys are easy.
Since when does anyone believe anything that guy says.
Does he even have kids, or a wife who has passed?
What makes you think social services actually visited his house?
Evidence before conclusions.


Now, That is the textbook example of a "Straw Man" argument.
Whether or not he was visited, or has kids, or is a widow is totally irrelevant to the argument at hand.

[westprog]

Man you guys are easy.
Since when does anyone believe anything that guy says.
Does he even have kids, or a wife who has passed?
What makes you think social services actually visited his house?
Evidence before conclusions.

I wouldn't believe one word that Jackchit says. It's quite likely that everything he's written is a complete lie.

The fact remains that he declared his intention to go to New York and murder a tour guide. That's a very, very serious matter.

[pchams]

Now, That is the textbook example of a "Straw Man" argument.
Whether or not he was visited, or has kids, or is a widow is totally irrelevant to the argument at hand.
No it isn't.
Everyone is getting worked up about a threat from an UNPROVEN source.
I followed the original thread, and there is no evidence that this guy even has
kids, much less that he was visited by the authorities.
Sounds more like an expert forum wind up that is working perfectly.
I'll admit that the threat is wrong, and probably illegal, and Do-over Dylan's response
is unbelievable, but I highly doubt that the threat is real.
I think he is taking you guys for a ride.

[Disbelief]

Man you guys are easy.
Since when does anyone believe anything that guy says.
Does he even have kids, or a wife who has passed?
What makes you think social services actually visited his house?
Evidence before conclusions.

Would you be willing to take that chance if it were you he was talking about?

[rwguinn]

No it isn't.
Everyone is getting worked up about a threat from an UNPROVEN source.
I followed the original thread, and there is no evidence that this guy even has
kids, much less that he was visited by the authorities.
Sounds more like an expert forum wind up that is working perfectly.

Wrong twice in as many posts. How DO you CTers do it?
The threat made by jackchit is real. The reasoning (hah!) behind the threat may be spurrious, but the actual threat is real. That is the issue. The "kids/social services/deceased wife" sidetrack is the straw man here.
You took part of the arguement--an inconsequential part, at that, and turned it into "The" argument, in your eyes.

[T.A.M.]

Just an important point.

Though anyone reading or posting on the forum thread where Jackchits kids and wife were commented on, would be possible suspects to have called S.S., Jack himself states only that S.S. was acting on an "anonymous" tip. No name was given.

I don't know him from Jack (no pun intended), but how do we know it wasnt someone in his own community or workplace?

Evidence people, not speculation.

TAM:)

[defaultdotxbe]

Just an important point.

Though anyone reading or posting on the forum thread where Jackchits kids and wife were commented on, would be possible suspects to have called S.S., Jack himself states only that S.S. was acting on an "anonymous" tip. No name was given.

TAM:)
also interesting is that he calls the anonymous tip "cowardly" but its my understanding ALL tips given to social services are kept anonymous (ironically for the very reasons jackchit is displaying here)

anyone know his ISP? im sure they would be interested in knowing what hes doing with their service :)

[Mince]

Dylan Avery condones this behavior by telling where Jackchit can find Gravy

I wasn't advocating violence, I was merely stating a fact. Duh huh.


Hey Dylan, if your video is due to be released nation-wide in major theatres and is being handled by a big time studio, where is the huge advertising campaign and media blitz for the video?

[negativ]

For people who regularly accuse the innocent of mass murder, you'd think they'd take a chat with social services a lot more lightly.

It *would* be funny, though, if Mr. "jackchit" found himself on the no-fly list. Terroristic threats, and all.

Tee hee...

[pchams]

Wrong twice in as many posts. How DO you CTers do it?
The threat made by jackchit is real. The reasoning (hah!) behind the threat may be spurrious, but the actual threat is real. That is the issue. The "kids/social services/deceased wife" sidetrack is the straw man here.
You took part of the arguement--an inconsequential part, at that, and turned it into "The" argument, in your eyes.
I am not a CT'er. I'm a card carrying JREF member.
Thanks for quote mining, and snipping out the part where I admit that the threat is wrong and probably illegal.
My point was, and stands, that he/she is probably having you on.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Take note also of Revolutionary91 (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showuser=135)'s gif sig:
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/7338/dylanowninggravyrm3.gif

[pchams]

Would you be willing to take that chance if it were you he was talking about?
I've run an internet forum for 4 years, and see this nonsense all the time.
I can't believe Avery would allow this as I would ban the user immediately.
I wouldn't lose any sleep over this if I were Mark.

[HeyLeroy]

I just posted this on the Dallas Mavericks forum: http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showthread.php?t=29479

[defaultdotxbe]

Take note also of Revolutionary91 (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showuser=135)'s gif sig:
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/7338/dylanowninggravyrm3.gif
apparently the truthers are also prejudiced against people on dial-up as well

[uk_dave]

Dream on. I can't see a threat in that post.

I notice nobody here has commented on the fact that this forum sent social services round to this guys hous and they left satisfied with what they saw.

What would rosie think of the tactics pseudo-skeptics are using?

Really?

Why do you actually believe that the Social Services did visit Jackchit?

Do you consider him to be a reliable person?

Personally, I wouldn't trust him to tell me that today is tuesday.

[Pipirr]

Take note also of Revolutionary91 (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showuser=135)'s gif sig:
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/7338/dylanowninggravyrm3.gif

Man, this has all gotten far too personal. That's just outrageous.

[Darth Rotor]

Wow.

In one breath: I'm a good father! Really!

In the next: Death threats.

Cognitive dissonance...?
Nope.

I understand this person's sentiment about "you screw with my family, you are toast" completely.

What puzzles me is how he can link harassment from Child Services to a particular internet forum discussion. I'd say he's a fool to make a public threat. Either take care of business, in terms of walk softly and carry a big stick, or STFU. I don't think Gravy is in any danger.

All of you folks trying to play internet psychologist need to step back a second and think through the venting of anger that went into that post. I suspect that the intensity of emotion will recede in time.

DR

[uk_dave]

Jackchit is an attention whore.

That much is apparent from his posts on LCF (wasn't he kicked off there for a while? That's right, he's the one with the info regarding the late rob belsamo) and the uk 911 forum, as well as his own bizarre website regarding his brush with dave and skeletor.

[Pardalis]

I think he is taking you guys for a ride.


I think he's up for a ride...

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/88864612b0d0d58f4.jpg

;)

[Mince]

Wow.

In one breath: I'm a good father! Really!

In the next: Death threats.

Cognitive dissonance...?

Yeah, gee. He doesn't think somebody is going to call Social Services again? And this time they have real justification and evidence.

[rwguinn]

I am not a CT'er. I'm a card carrying JREF member.
Thanks for quote mining, and snipping out the part where I admit that the threat is wrong and probably illegal.
My point was, and stands, that he/she is probably having you on.
Retract that or be reported.
I used the quote feature and quoted your entire post, both times.
You have accused me of dishonesty. You may have edited your post after I quoted you. If so, that may or may not be an honest mistake on your part.
You, sir, are an a$$

[ChristineR]

Nothing pisses off the Social Services people like someone making a death threat against someone who (allegedly) called them (but probably it was somebody else).

Jackchit, if you happen to be reading this, quite posting and call a lawyer, ASAP.

[T.A.M.]

Nope.

I understand this person's sentiment about "you screw with my family, you are toast" completely.

What puzzles me is how he can link harassment from Child Services to a particular internet forum discussion. I'd say he's a fool to make a public threat. Either take care of business, in terms of walk softly and carry a big stick, or STFU. I don't think Gravy is in any danger.

All of you folks trying to play internet psychologist need to step back a second and think through the venting of anger that went into that post. I suspect that the intensity of emotion will recede in time.

DR

DR:

I respect your call for thinking all this through. However, Jackchit has shown a pattern of posting this type of "venting", and his online persona seems very unstable.

To pay no attention to it, is to ask for a columbine. To ask for another montreal... In this day and age we can no longer ignore these type of threats. Vent in private, not on a public forum.

TAM:)

[Wartrac]

1) did jackchit really say he was glad his wife died so he could do 9/11 research?

2) or did this reaaaally happen is this just more Twoofer delusional behavior?

3) If 1 is real and he spends all his time researching 9/11 I would not be suprised if he never leaves the house....lol......a neighbor could have called. If there was really ever a call at all.....

4) If 1 is real and he devotes all his time to 9/11 I have a feeling he can't afford a ticket to get across the pond.

5) Unless maybe Dylan and the LC war chest will fund the flight.

6) or....if JC sells his action figure collection to buy a ticket what's going to happen to his kids once he's arrested for assault or whatever. Sounds like someone isn't thinking about his kids.

7) Unless.....maybe the LC war chest is making promises to take care of kids if something is done to the enemy of the movement and JC sacrifices himself....to include knowing when this would take place and have a video camera on the ready to due some nice video editiing and quote mining to show how mean and ruthless the Jrefers are and the extents we will go to keep them quiet :rolleyes: .......although this isn't a real assumption since the LC team is only in it for the money and wouldn't do anything "real" to jeopardize their movement towards the cash

However with all that said.....I personally believe that Jackchit is full of chit. I doubt he was married......nevermind his wife dying.....If I'm wrong then he isn't that swift going after/making threats to some random person that didn't do anything to him. The thread in the LC fourms have people now believing that Gravy did it and JC has no proof. He's just taking one of, if not the most pubic face of 9/11 skeptics and attacking him verbally.

The whole thing is laughable.....the bowel movement is constantly losing steam even with new "smoking gun" movies and sh***y actors jumping on board. I think they are just getting pi**ed off because the writing is on the wall. Soon it will all be over.....nobody will care about them....nobody will remember them. The thought of having to actually move on and have lives is scarey to them. Not too mention that the LC folks will be counting all their money and doing this :dc_biggrin: all the way to the bank.

Anyways....to sum up.....Jackchit is either a liar.....or he's nuts.....or both. Nothing will come out of this cause I'm sure he's just a coward looking for attention. Oh and by the way Jack if you read this.....I'm saying this...me alone......with no influence from my "spiritual leader" lmao. If you had any stones at all you would post your grade school threats in a place they can be responded to. I can't stop laughing at you.....I'm going to end up with hiccups at this rate.

[pchams]

Retract that or be reported.
I used the quote feature and quoted your entire post, both times.
You have accused me of dishonesty. You may have edited your post after I quoted you. If so, that may or may not be an honest mistake on your part.
You, sir, are an a$$
I see you posted 3 minutes after my edit. You may have missed it.
I'm not sure where your bitterness comes from, or why you think you can call me a CTer just because you don't agree with me, but report away.
make sure you report your last post as well.
You are the first person I will put on ignore. feel free to do the same with me.

[defaultdotxbe]

i agree the threat (as most truther threats) is likely an empty one, but this is just the most recent in a long line of similar behavior

how many here have been threatened with physical violence for disagreeing with a truther?

how many here have been libeled and/or slandered by truthers?

how many others have been libeled or slandered as mass murderers, or accessories to murder?

how often have truthers advocated violence against those who disagree?

how often have they advocated and even discused inciting armed revolution?


i think they all need to learn the internet is not anonymous, and laws still apply, even to the noble bringers of the truth

[Mince]

Good question. In the thread he posted a link to there's nothing indicating that Mark contacted anybody.

Must be because he's the most vocal debunker.

I think it's because Gravy is the most accessible. Jack wants to punish someone. He probably doesn't care who it is. That is obvious because he is punishing no one but himself.

[westprog]

All of you folks trying to play internet psychologist need to step back a second and think through the venting of anger that went into that post. I suspect that the intensity of emotion will recede in time.

DR

It doesn't matter what the truth of his personal situation is, or what his state of mind is. He needs to withdraw his threat, right away.

I've been posting to that effect on LC. I've told them that this is going to do them massive harm. They Just Don't Get It.

[Jaguar]

i agree the threat (as most truther threats) is likely an empty one, but this is just the most recent in a long line of similar behavior

how many here have been threatened with physical violence for disagreeing with a truther?

how many here have been libeled and/or slandered by truthers?

how many others have been libeled or slandered as mass murderers, or accessories to murder?

how often have truthers advocated violence against those who disagree?

how often have they advocated and even discused inciting armed revolution?


i think they all need to learn the internet is not anonymous, and laws still apply, even to the noble bringers of the truth


How often has Troy in WV made threats against people?

Why is his behaviour condoned?

[T.A.M.]

Tonic:

Thanks for posting my reference to columbine.

Are you saying then, that we should ignore threats online to cause other people harm.

Should the people who were online with the guy in the UK who killed himself online simply have ignored him...treat it as "mouthing off"?

you are insane, and reprehensible, if you are saying that overt threats of violence on line should be ignored.

Columbine had warning signs...they were ignored.

TAM:)

[Darth Rotor]

DR:

I respect your call for thinking all this through. However, Jackchit has shown a pattern of posting this type of "venting", and his online persona seems very unstable.

To pay no attention to it, is to ask for a columbine. To ask for another montreal... In this day and age we can no longer ignore these type of threats. Vent in private, not on a public forum.

TAM:)

TAM, you are the doctor. I understand your reservations, and your default caution.

I refuse to ascribe to the Cult of the Victim theory on how to live my life. I think giving undue legitimacy to what looked to me like a rant/vent is giving a troll more due than he is worth.

I am also aware that such an assessment is not guaranteed infallible. Life's full of dangers. There is no need to run around scared . . . or the bullies and terrorists win.

That said, I trust Gravy to do his own risk assessment and I suspect that he, being a New Yawker, will come up with a reasoned approach. Unlike much of the Troofer movement, he's not an idiot.

DR

[Hokulele]

Nope.

I understand this person's sentiment about "you screw with my family, you are toast" completely.

What puzzles me is how he can link harassment from Child Services to a particular internet forum discussion. I'd say he's a fool to make a public threat. Either take care of business, in terms of walk softly and carry a big stick, or STFU. I don't think Gravy is in any danger.

All of you folks trying to play internet psychologist need to step back a second and think through the venting of anger that went into that post. I suspect that the intensity of emotion will recede in time.

DR


I can understand the basic sentiment in the original poster as well (although I do not condone it), what I cannot understand is Dylan's encouragement and apparent escalation of this. That to me is the inexcusable issue here.

[Bobert]

Uuuuh re read what I posted and it was not a threat but rather a hope.

[Darth Rotor]

He needs to withdraw his threat, right away.
I agree with what he, jackchit, ought to do. I also seem to recall the exact wording being dialogue in a movie. (The bit about looking into my eyes and that being the last thing you see) I just can't recall the movie reference.

DR

[Dog Town]

How often has Troy in WV made threats against people?

Why is his behaviour condoned?

Not in this forum.

[westprog]

How often has Troy in WV made threats against people?

Why is his behaviour condoned?

I have no idea what you're talking about. If he's threatened to track people down and kill them, then


He's an idiot
He's doing his cause a lot of harmJackchit is going to do a lot of harm with this, but nobody more than himself.

[HeyLeroy]

JREF's reached out beyond the net and touches Jack where he lives, with a real life threat to separate him from his children.

In response, he wants to reach out and touch the JREF's.

I think the best way to go at it is to find out everything about Mark Roberts, were he works, lives, the whole gambit, and make his life miserable.

As to the JREF member who actuall DID the deed, that's the guy I'd be going after as well, to punch his lights out.

Someone mentioned his user name over there. What else can be found out about him?

Anyone else besides me grabbing screencaps?

[T.A.M.]

I find it absolutely insane that someone can say that calling S.S. because you feel that a childs welfare might be at risk, is equated with the "lowest of the lows".

says alot about the thought processes.

TAM:)

[Disbelief]

How often has Troy in WV made threats against people?

Why is his behaviour condoned?

Now you have introduced yourself tonicblue.

[T.A.M.]

Wasnt Tonic Blue Banned here. Is that his sock...Jaguar?

[westprog]

That said, I trust Gravy to do his own risk assessment and I suspect that he, being a New Yawker, will come up with a reasoned approach. Unlike much of the Troofer movement, he's not an idiot.

DR

I'd agree that there is very unlikely to be any real threat. However, it's for just one person to decide, and how he deals with it is entirely up to him.

I'd like to extend my personal sympathies. It's not very pleasant to deal with this kind of thing.

[Pardalis]

How often has Troy in WV made threats against people?

Why is his behaviour condoned?

Troy in WV was banned last december.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=71555

[Alt+F4]

Why oh why do people post personal information about themselves on the Internet? Check out Mr. Holmes website and blog:

http://www.beckhamcoverup.com/

Seems someone threatend his life recently:

This guys talking rubbish. We never went to Maltby Police Station and we did not sanction the selling of the PC's. All information on them is our property. This guy has ruined me, turned me desperate.

I can honestly say the only time his name will be in print is in the obituaries. SOON.
27 March 2007 12:37

Obviously, the guilty party here is David Beckham.

[HeyLeroy]

How often has Troy in WV made threats against people?

Why is his behaviour condoned?

It's not:

troy in wv has been banned
troy in wv has been banned for breaches of his/her Membership Agreement and for threatening another Member via PM. The content of the posts and PM have been removed from public view but a copy has been kept.
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=71555

[VespaGuy]

How often has Troy in WV made threats against people?

Why is his behaviour condoned?

This forum banned him for that behaviour. That's the exact opposite of condoning it.

ETA: I'm way too slow. It seems that many others here have already shown how idiotic Jaguar's comment is.

[Jaguar]

Now you have introduced yourself tonicblue.

Typical JREF tactic. I am not tonicblue. Please report it to the moderators and they will set you straight.

[Darth Rotor]

I can understand the basic sentiment in the original poster as well (although I do not condone it), what I cannot understand is Dylan's encouragement and apparent escalation of this. That to me is the inexcusable issue here.

Bingo. Dylan is being a complete arse-in-a-blanket, not to mention clueless, not to mention self destructive for such reputation his forum holds/has (and Charlie Sheen's endorsement/voiceover?) if he casually condones death threats.

DR

[T.A.M.]

Well in the end, as a group, the LCF groupies have provided plenty of evidence of their own mentality on issues.

Who was that poster, who was a truther, in here recently telling us not to focus on the "morons" at LCF, as they were the more rediculous faction of the truth movement. I am starting to see what he was saying.

TAM:)

[Hokulele]

Bingo. Dylan is being a complete arse-in-a-blanket, not to mention clueless, not to mention self destructive for such reputation his forum holds/has (and Charlie Sheen's endorsement/voiceover?) if he casually condones death threats.

DR


"Arse-in-a-blanket". Hee hee, I now have a new favorite term for describing some people.

[TK0001]

I bought a gun nearly a year ago, and haven't been able to use it outside the shooting range. If you or Jack Chit aren't merely making cowardly, empty keyboard threats, PM for my address.

Holy crap.

[Donal]

If the police are called, then it wouldn't suprise me in the least if he were to take immediate action. If he's harrased any more, then I think I'll start making threats myself!
I bought a gun nearly a year ago, and haven't been able to use it outside the shooting range. If you or Jack Chit aren't merely making cowardly, empty keyboard threats, PM for my address.

Isn't that lovely.

[Regnad Kcin]

Dream on. I can't see a threat in that post.

I notice nobody here has commented on the fact that this forum sent social services round to this guys hous and they left satisfied with what they saw.

What would rosie think of the tactics pseudo-skeptics are using?Friend, best to go lie down for awhile lest you hurt yourself.

[HeyLeroy]

I bought a gun nearly a year ago, and haven't been able to use it outside the shooting range. If you or Jack Chit aren't merely making cowardly, empty keyboard threats, PM for my address.

I hope I'm not the only one grabbing these screencaps... anyone?

[Darth Rotor]

"Arse-in-a-blanket". Hee hee, I now have a new favorite term for describing some people.
Anytime I can contribute a neologism to the language, it is my pleasure.

Please spread it far and wide, like Paris Hilton's legs . . . sorry, I am digressing.

DR

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Anytime I can contribute a neologism to the language, it is my pleasure.

Please spread it far and wide, like Paris Hilton's legs . . . sorry, I am digressing.

DR

Hilton is a flagpole with nice hair and makeup, I'm gunna stick with Jessica Simpson.

[Pardalis]

I hope I'm not the only one grabbing these screencaps... anyone?

Here here.

[HyJinX]

Revolutionary91 on LCF gives the ok for Jackchit to take action...but is worried about how that will affect LC:FC...how sweet

Jack, I'm going to be real with you. If you were to something to Gravy or that JREF (Hey JREF's...noticed I said IF) it would be 100% o.k. in my book, but I know that one action of a member in a group can determine oh so much. I know how much you want to go hunt someone down and get payback but trust me when I say this:

Wait for the release of LC:FC

If you do something rash now it can really hurt our credibilty.

Patience, our time will come.


Nice!

[Mince]

Dream on. I can't see a threat in that post.

I notice nobody here has commented on the fact that this forum sent social services round to this guys hous and they left satisfied with what they saw.

What would rosie think of the tactics pseudo-skeptics are using?


Do The Truth Seekers share a common brain? Who has it right now?

[humingbrd]

Although this happened in the US, it's still instructive. A Scientology critic sentenced to prison for making a joke online about a "Tom Cruise Missile"

www.10zenmonkeys.com/ 2007/02/04/scientology-fugitive-arrested/

[scissorhands]

Lin Kuei
Posted: Apr 3 2007, 03:37 PM

Group: Admin
Posts: 154
Member No.: 1,896
Joined: 2-February 07

Jackchit this topic is now closed. While it is truly unfortunate what has happened to you, what has transpired in this thread (mostly from other users) is not to be tolerated. What has transpired in this thread also does not help the movement. Closed.

This chemtrail kook is now an admin over there?

[John Blonn]

Yes, it's where the net has met the real world. I think it would be nice to know who ALL the JREF's are just to know. Then if one of them acts up again, we could release the hounds. From Headhunter on LCF.

If headhunter had his/her way with things, this is what the world would be like. A not too uncommon sentiment on LCF, I would imagine.

These fools cry that "USA IS A POLICE STATE ROFL!" - but if they had any real power THEY would be the brown shirt thugs.

[Regnad Kcin]

...If you do something rash now it can really hurt our credibilty.Stundie, how I love ya', how I love ya'...

[negativ]

Do The Truth Seekers share a common brain? Who has it right now?


If they had a brain, they'd take it out and play with it.

[Pardalis]

Yes, it's where the net has met the real world. I think it would be nice to know who ALL the JREF's are just to know. Then if one of them acts up again, we could release the hounds.

From Headhunter on LCF

If headhunter had his/her way with things, this is what the world would be like. A not too uncommon sentiment on LCF, I would imagine.And they are the ones afraid of a "police state"... :rolleyes:

[Mince]

No?

I am from the UK pal; I did not have anything to do with the social going to this guy’s house.

Yet all of a sudden I am despicable and deserve a horrible death right?


For posting on a message board.

Do you not see the insanity, Jaguar?

[Mince]

What are the TOS for invision?

I don't know, but I'm going to guess one of them is "No killing".

[CHF]

He's at Ground Zero, every Saturday

Quite possibly Dylan's worst screwup to date.

[John Blonn]

Quite possibly Dylan's worst screwup to date.

I look forward to that quote being plastered around the internet.

ETA: And I find it telling that it is a moderator who closes the thread after it gets out of control, and not Dylan, who was actually the first participant in it.

[Hyperviolet]

Come on now, this is getting a bit too dramatic. Now, threats are a serious thing. But lets be realistic, this is the internet. Now, im not saying Mark should not report this. However, you lot are talking like the guy has booked plane tickets for him and his chainsaw.

Jackchit - is an imbecile. An imbecile in the United Kingdom, far away from NYC. Now, anyone who knows the internet knows that "ass kicking" threats on the web are 99% BS.
This whole "ohh i cant believe Dylan is assisting the MURDER of Mark Roberts" is a little overboard.

[John Blonn]

Uh no, Hyperviolet. The point is that Dylan didn't put a stop to this the first instant he saw it. Idle threat or no, he not only didn't close the thread and suspend or ban the user, he assisted. Great leader.

[Hyperviolet]

Uh no, Hyperviolet. The point is that Dylan didn't put a stop to this the first instant he saw it. Idle threat or no, he not only didn't close the thread and suspend or ban the user, he assisted. Great leader.


Im not condoning Dylan's reaction or Jackchit's threat.

[CHF]

This whole "ohh i cant believe Dylan is assisting the MURDER of Mark Roberts" is a little overboard.

The point is that Dylan read what amounted to a death threat written by a complete mental case and Dylan decided to give that mental case directions.

[NickUK]

Am I missing something here? I don't understand what beef Jackchit has with Gravy personally?

All very odd.

[scissorhands]

The threat was posted on his site, rather than remove it, he gave details to help it be carried out.
I would be very concerned if I was Dylan.
He needs a good lawyer and soon.

[Hyperviolet]

The point is that Dylan read what amounted to a death threat written by a complete mental case and Dylan decided to give that mental case directions.

Hardly. He told him what? Mark would be a Ground Zero, its not exactly anything noone already knew. Lets be honest.

That said, he shouldnt have said anything and straight up banned the idiot.

It seems to be here the reaction here is pure pack mentality. Whereby its Us vs Them. Good vs Bad. You almost want Dylan Avery to be assisting in this 'murder.' After all, its just another thing against him and his legion.
I go on lots of forums, used to visit lots of chatrooms and when a guy from another continent threatens to kick another guys ass, you usually don't even think twice about it.

Report the fool, lets leave it at that for now.

[uk_dave]

Come on now, this is getting a bit too dramatic. Now, threats are a serious thing. But lets be realistic, this is the internet. Now, im not saying Mark should not report this. However, you lot are talking like the guy has booked plane tickets for him and his chainsaw.

Jackchit - is an imbecile. An imbecile in the United Kingdom, far away from NYC. Now, anyone who knows the internet knows that "ass kicking" threats on the web are 99% BS.
This whole "ohh i cant believe Dylan is assisting the MURDER of Mark Roberts" is a little overboard.


I can see where you're coming from, but Avery DOES have a responsibility (witness the fact that one of his admins has now closed the thread at LCF), but sadly avery is a stupid kid who is out of his depth and is attracting some deeply psychotic people to his so called 'movement'.

Jackchit is a very minor player in this, but by virtue of him having been one of the regular 'truthers' on LCF, instead of the others ostracising him for his hostile comments, they all just swallow his whole martyr act and condone his desire to take action against ONE person on this board who wasn't even all that involved in the original thread regarding Jackchit's mental instability and the possible impact of this on his children.

The reality is that Jackchit, through the loss of his wife and his on going fued with the beckhams and some security company is ALREADY on the radar of social services.

But as ever with the truthers, when something bad happens to them they look for someone to blame, and yet again they end up blaming the wrong person.

That avery was unable to kill that thread immediately just goes to show what kind of person he really is.

[Pardalis]

The point is that Dylan read what amounted to a death threat written by a complete mental case and Dylan decided to give that mental case directions.

He could very well have "directed" a mental case from New York who could be reading what his leader is saying and taking him seriously.

[Hyperviolet]

I can see where you're coming from, but Avery DOES have a responsibility (witness the fact that one of his admins has now closed the thread at LCF), but sadly avery is a stupid kid who is out of his depth and is attracting some deeply psychotic people to his so called 'movement'.

Jackchit is a very minor player in this, but by virtue of him having been one of the regular 'truthers' on LCF, instead of the others ostracising him for his hostile comments, they all just swallow his whole martyr act and condone his desire to take action against ONE person on this board who wasn't even all that involved in the original thread regarding Jackchit's mental instability and the possible impact of this on his children.

The reality is that Jackchit, through the loss of his wife and his on going fued with the beckhams and some security company is ALREADY on the radar of social services.

But as ever with the truthers, when something bad happens to them they look for someone to blame, and yet again they end up blaming the wrong person.

That avery was unable to kill that thread immediately just goes to show what kind of person he really is.


Dave, i agree Dylan did not handle this as well as he should have.

I just think some of the reactions here are a bit Jerry Springer, and are based on a personal dislike of Avery. Not on the reality of the situation.

[Disbelief]

Come on now, this is getting a bit too dramatic. Now, threats are a serious thing. But lets be realistic, this is the internet. Now, im not saying Mark should not report this. However, you lot are talking like the guy has booked plane tickets for him and his chainsaw.

Jackchit - is an imbecile. An imbecile in the United Kingdom, far away from NYC. Now, anyone who knows the internet knows that "ass kicking" threats on the web are 99% BS.
This whole "ohh i cant believe Dylan is assisting the MURDER of Mark Roberts" is a little overboard.

While internet threats are usually no big deal, Mark would be easy to find. Therefore, this goes a little further than most internet threats.

Jaguar, I guess I fell victim to trutheritis. If it posts like tonic and acts like tonic, it must be tonic.

[uk_dave]

Dave, i agree Dylan did not handle this as well as he should have.

I just think some of the reactions here are a bit Jerry Springer, and are based on a personal dislike of Avery. Not on the reality of the situation.

Yeah, well we do love lesbians too :D

(Hey I've watched my share of trash tv)

Jerry, jerry, jerry!

[Babbylonian]

Dave, i agree Dylan did not handle this as well as he should have.

I just think some of the reactions here are a bit Jerry Springer, and are based on a personal dislike of Avery. Not on the reality of the situation.
No, I think it's more than a "personal dislike." It's a perception that truthers are a) delusional and could possibly be considered b) cultists. That would make Avery a cult leader. If a cult leader points someone out to a delusional cult member (in this case, a cult member who has already expressed violent thoughts about the person), telling said member that this person is a danger to the cult, that's extremely dangerous.

In other words, the reaction here can only be considered an over-reaction if you believe that the truthers are mentally stable. This is hardly the first time concern over truthers' mental stability has been raised here.

[Hyperviolet]

While internet threats are usually no big deal, Mark would be easy to find. Therefore, this goes a little further than most internet threats.

Jaguar, I guess I fell victim to trutheritis. If it posts like tonic and acts like tonic, it must be tonic.


I agree, Mark will be at ground zero. Everyone knows this. This is the only reason i'd even bat an eyelid at a threat coming from another continent. Mark should report this idiot. Talk about emailing Mark Cuban about Dylans involvement in a planned murder just seems a few steps too far.

[Hyperviolet]

No, I think it's more than a "personal dislike." It's a perception that truthers are a) delusional and could possibly be considered b) cultists. That would make Avery a cult leader. If a cult leader points someone out to a delusional cult member (in this case, a cult member who has already expressed violent thoughts about the person), telling said member that this person is a danger to the cult, that's extremely dangerous.

In other words, the reaction here can only be considered an over-reaction if you believe that the truthers are mentally stable. This is hardly the first time concern over truthers' mental stability has been raised here.

I can't help but feel you are trying to hype this up.

Be honest - you really feel a cult leader has authorised one of his devout followers to go out and murder an innocent man? I really feel you are indulging in clever word play and not judging the situation for what it is.

[Pardalis]

One good thing about this is that we got a visit from the Skepchick.

:D

[Hyperviolet]

Yeah, well we do love lesbians too :D

(Hey I've watched my share of trash tv)

Jerry, jerry, jerry!

Hey man, i dont blame you

The midget fight is golden hahaha

[Brainster]

Was it only yesterday that Dylan wrote this (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6753)?

Start being a responsible person and researcher.

Let's remember too that Dylan's avatar over there is a gif file of somebody shooting someone who looks a lot like Gravy.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

How often has Troy in WV made threats against people?
Unknown.

Why is his behaviour condoned? It is not.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Wasnt Tonic Blue Banned here. Is that his sock...Jaguar?
Suspending, with ongoing mod investigation.

[uk_dave]

I can't help but feel you are trying to hype this up.

Be honest - you really feel a cult leader has authorised one of his devout followers to go out and murder an innocent man? I really feel you are indulging in clever word play and not judging the situation for what it is.

Again, you make a fair point.

However, to some on LCF avery is a cult hero (though I doubt that jackchit feels that way) and those followers do look to avery for how to behave (some of them are very young).

Avery should have squashed the thread and cannot plead ignorance because he even encouraged it by commenting on Gravy's GZ activities.

[Hyperviolet]

Again, you make a fair point.

However, to some on LCF avery is a cult hero (though I doubt that jackchit feels that way) and those followers do look to avery for how to behave (some of them are very young).

Avery should have squashed the thread and cannot plead ignorance because he even encouraged it by commenting on Gravy's GZ activities.

Dave, i stress again. I agree with you entirely on Dylans response. He has great responsibility, wether he likes it or not. Jackchit should have been banned immediately. However, my point is purely on the reaction of this forum.

[Hokulele]

I agree, Mark will be at ground zero. Everyone knows this. This is the only reason i'd even bat an eyelid at a threat coming from another continent. Mark should report this idiot. Talk about emailing Mark Cuban about Dylans involvement in a planned murder just seems a few steps too far.


I never suggested that Dylan was involving himself in a murder, but I do think that his actions, or lack of action against the member, were inexcusable. Since Dylan is responsible for his own actions, seeing how Dylan would find Mark Cuban's response to his actions to carry more weight than anyone else's at this point in time, and seeing how it could be in Mark Cuban's best interest to be aware of the type of behavior that Dylan is encouraging.

Do you disagree with any of these points? In addition, I wasn't suggesting to Mr. Cuban whether or not he should take any action, or what type of action to take. If the information is simply presented to Mr. Cuban's organization, and context is provided, Mr. Cuban can choose what action he wishes to take on his own. For all I know, nothing may come of it.

[David Wong]

It would be irresponsible NOT to report this to anyone who has lent any kind of financial or verbal or any other kind of support to Loose Change.

Mark has met Truthers face to face many times. He physically encounters them.

A truther swears he is going to kill Mark.

Many truthers agree that this is a good course of action.

Dylan instructs the truthers where to find Mark.

That's criminal activity, kids. No matter how you slice it. There is no "hyping" or overstating this. A death threat, with several offers by others to assist in making the murder happen WHO VERY MUCH HAVE THE CAPABILITY TO CARRY IT OUT.

The host of those forums needs to know, Mark Cuban needs to know, anyone who is allowing their names to be attached to this needs to know. When a political movement goes from, "we need something done!!!" to "I'm going to kill people on the other side," the movement becomes something else. There's a term for it.

[yodaluver28]

Reporting this is essential. Yes it's probably just some loser blowing smoke, but every once in a while a threat is very real and it's not worth taking the risk with someone who is so obviously ill and paranoid.

[Hyperviolet]

I never suggested that Dylan was involving himself in a murder, but I do think that his actions, or lack of action against the member, were inexcusable. Since Dylan is responsible for his own actions, seeing how Dylan would find Mark Cuban's response to his actions to carry more weight than anyone else's at this point in time, and seeing how it could be in Mark Cuban's best interest to be aware of the type of behavior that Dylan is encouraging.

Do you disagree with any of these points? In addition, I wasn't suggesting to Mr. Cuban whether or not he should take any action, or what type of action to take. If the information is simply presented to Mr. Cuban's organization, and context is provided, Mr. Cuban can choose what action he wishes to take on his own. For all I know, nothing may come of it.

I disagree in the sense that i think Dylan took this as a typical BS internet threat and wrongly forgot his great responsibility by indulging this moron.

I dont think for one minute that he actually believed that this Jackchit was going to buy a plane ticket to the United States to murder Mark Roberts.

Irresponsible? Yes.
Callous? I dont think so.

[Hyperviolet]

It would be irresponsible NOT to report this to anyone who has lent any kind of financial or verbal or any other kind of support to Loose Change.

Mark has met Truthers face to face many times. He physically encounters them.

A truther swears he is going to kill Mark.

Many truthers agree that this is a good course of action.

Dylan instructs the truthers where to find Mark.

That's criminal activity, kids. No matter how you slice it. There is no "hyping" or overstating this. A death threat, with several offers by others to assist in making the murder happen WHO VERY MUCH HAVE THE CAPABILITY TO CARRY IT OUT.

The host of those forums needs to know, Mark Cuban needs to know, anyone who is allowing their names to be attached to this needs to know. When a political movement goes from, "we need something done!!!" to "I'm going to kill people on the other side," the movement becomes something else. There's a term for it.

Correction.

"A truther..... from another continent." An important factor i feel. Should this person be one of the truthers Mark does actually meet regularly, id be very concerned for his safety.

This is the type of overhyping im talking about.
Try reporting Dylan's response to the police. Show them the evidence. You think he will get huckled to jail?

[Babbylonian]

I can't help but feel you are trying to hype this up.

Be honest - you really feel a cult leader has authorised one of his devout followers to go out and murder an innocent man? I really feel you are indulging in clever word play and not judging the situation for what it is.
I'll answer your question: No, I do not think - based on the evidence thus far - that Avery is intentionally engaged in a conspiracy to commit murder (though I have FAR more evidence supporting such a theory than any truther has ever manufactured regarding 9/11). I think he's acted stupidly and without thought (both now and in the creation of his laughable excuse for a documentary).

However, the perception that truthists are delusional and potentially dangerous is, again, nothing new and I would not be at all surprised if actual violence resulted from their delusions. I further believe that this situation creates the perfect environment for such a result if Jackchit is truly as unstable as he seems, and Avery's tacit endorsement of his words and intentions is similarly dangerous.

[uk_dave]

Correction.

"A truther..... from another continent." An important factor i feel. Should this person be one of the truthers Mark does actually meet regularly, id be very concerned for his safety.

This is the type of overhyping im talking about.
Try reporting Dylan's response to the police. Show them the evidence. You think he will get huckled to jail?

Then again, I could get an economy ticket from heathrow to new york on 17th april for £243.

While I don't believe Jackchit is anything other than an internet blowhard (the kinda guy who used to go down the pub and insist he was once in the SAS), a threat has been made and it is viable.

[T.A.M.]

Hyperviolet:

1. Jackchit has show through his internet actions to be unstable, and somewhat obsessed with Mark Roberts (Gravy). He created a myspace calling Mark a "Gay Spy", and had the LCFers join it. On it he made fun of the man. Mark was barely involved in the thread that brought this latest threat by jackchit on, yet Jackchit chose to pick on Mark, and make him the target of his violent threat.

2. Remember the guy who killed himself online recently. People were online while he was threatening to do it, and not convinced he was legit in his threats, some egged him on...he did it. remember Columbine. We had a similiar episode to Columbine in Montreal recently...the guy had a site online where he made all sorts of "threats".

3. Is the risk of this threat being carried out low...absolutely. Should it be brushed off...absolutely NOT.

4. You are correct, Dylan should have banned the guy immediately. Has he done so yet...nope. What does that say about the truth "leader".

Yes there was/is alot of trash talk going on, and when it comes to the debunkers here and the die hard truthers, it is very much like a war, or a playground squabble, but thats the way it is. Both sides have said a lot, but if you look at what group has been more rational on this issue, I think it is the debunkers.

Are you aware of the original post Jackchit made that sparked the whole Social Services issue?

TAM:)

[John Blonn]

Nice post, TAM.

About your point #2 - any link for that? I haven't heard about that incident.

[jhunter1163]

Has anyone reported this to Invisionfree yet? This is as blatant a TOS violation as I've ever seen to say the least.

[Hyperviolet]

Hyperviolet:

1. Jackchit has show through his internet actions to be unstable, and somewhat obsessed with Mark Roberts (Gravy). He created a myspace calling Mark a "Gay Spy", and had the LCFers join it. On it he made fun of the man. Mark was barely involved in the thread that brought this latest threat by jackchit on, yet Jackchit chose to pick on Mark, and make him the target of his violent threat.

2. Remember the guy who killed himself online recently. People were online while he was threatening to do it, and not convinced he was legit in his threats, some egged him on...he did it. remember Columbine. We had a similiar episode to Columbine in Montreal recently...the guy had a site online where he made all sorts of "threats".

3. Is the risk of this threat being carried out low...absolutely. Should it be brushed off...absolutely NOT.

4. You are correct, Dylan should have banned the guy immediately. Has he done so yet...nope. What does that say about the truth "leader".

Yes there was/is alot of trash talk going on, and when it comes to the debunkers here and the die hard truthers, it is very much like a war, or a playground squabble, but thats the way it is. Both sides have said a lot, but if you look at what group has been more rational on this issue, I think it is the debunkers.

Are you aware of the original post Jackchit made that sparked the whole Social Services issue?

TAM:)

Yes, the one about his wifes death?

The fact is - he should be reported. He is an imbecile, clearly. Insinuating that Avery is assisting in some kind of pre planned maniacal murder holds no water, and therefore the overdramatised response of many the posts are borderline ridiculous. If anyone feels Avery needs to be reported, go on. I expect the authorities to laugh at the evidence.

[T.A.M.]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21445333-2703,00.html

TAM:)

[David Wong]

In case no one has posted it yet:

http://invisionfree.com/report.php

[T.A.M.]

Yes, the one about his wifes death?

The fact is - he should be reported. He is an imbecile, clearly. Insinuating that Avery is assisting in some kind of pre planned maniacal murder holds no water, and therefore the overdramatised response of many the posts are borderline ridiculous. If anyone feels Avery needs to be reported, go on. I expect the authorities to laugh at the evidence.

I agree, that little if anything would likely happen to Avery. I think it simply dispicable that a boy like Avery, a leader in the truth movement, not only allows such a post to remain, but rather than disciplining the user through banning, he condones, and actually gets in on the event, indirectly, by stating where Mark is found every week, whether it was public knowledge or not.

TAM:)

[Hyperviolet]

I agree, that little if anything would likely happen to Avery. I think it simply dispicable that a boy like Avery, a leader in the truth movement, not only allows such a post to remain, but rather than disciplining the user through banning, he condones, and actually gets in on the event, indirectly, by stating where Mark is found every week, whether it was public knowledge or not.

TAM:)

TAM, again i state that i do not contest Averys judgement on the matter.

However, i feel that it is simply down to casual ignorance and not malice.

[Mince]

TAM, again i state that i do not contest Averys judgement on the matter.

However, i feel that it is simply down to casual ignorance and not malice.


Perhaps. But we don't really know, do we? I'm guessing (guessing, mind you) that if the thread had been real, that Avery would not have been to put off by it. Because, in reality, how does he know it is not real? Heck, I don't think anybody knows, including Jack Chit.

[jhunter1163]

Reported to Invisionfree.

[Hyperviolet]

Perhaps. But we don't really know, do we? I guessing (guessing, mind you) that if the thread had been real, that Avery would not have been to put off by it. Because, in reality, how does he know it is not real? Heck, I don't think anybody knows, including Jack Chit.

Mince, threats of violence on the internet are everywhere.

I havent personally read any report of someone travelling outside their country to settle an internet feud via violence. I think the chance of this actually happening are highly unlikely, almost negligable.

Dylans words are constantly placed under a microscope, he knows this and should've acted accordingly by being more responsible.

With every single threat of an ass kicking on the net, without exception, we never truly know if anything shall come of it. We use logic and common sense to gauge how real the threat is... and in this case, i cant help but feel this type of thinking has been abandoned in favour of an emotional response based purely on the personal dislike of Dylan Avery.

[David Wong]

And let me make something clear:

I'm aware that in heated internet flame wars people throw around "threats" all the time, Bears fans arguing with Packer fans until one guy says, "Yeah, you come down here to Soldier Field and we'll knock your teeth out!"

I recognize those as meaningless.

That was NOT what we had here. What we had here was a man, already unstable, already having ruined his marriage over that instability, already celebrating the death of his wife, suddenly in potential legal trouble regarding his children... and based on THAT, in that state of mind, threatened the life of a man whose name he knows, whose face he knows, whose LOCATION he knows.

The difference between those two scenarios is night and day. One is a kiddie getting overheated and saying, "I'll kill you!!!" The other is a specific threat against a specific person in a specific place by someone already showing himself to be unstable.

And please, nobody insult my intelligence with, "He never made a specific threat on his life!!!" He said he would be "the last thing" Mark ever saw. Either he was threatening death or he was threatening blindness.

[boloboffin]

The law of unintended consequences continues to hold true. I said over and over again for the busybodies who contacted Social Services not to do so. And now their asinine behavior has ricocheted onto Mark, who I can't even recall posting in that thread.

Yes, Mark is in NYC and jackchit is in England. Yes, jackchit would probably never cough up the dough to carry out his threat. But given Dylan Avery's cold-blooded assist, does anyone here think it unlikely that some helpful NYC native might be inspired to do the deed himself? The people we engage on a daily basis are not the most rational of people.

Yes, people are only responsible for the things that they do. But when a consequence of an action is not only possible, but probable, then you bear a measure of responsibility for it. THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T MEDDLE IN OTHER PEOPLE'S BUSINESS WITHOUT GOOD CAUSE.

Disclaimers: I'm given to understand that Mark can take care of himself. I condemn both the threat and the actions of Dylan.

ON EDIT: The initial post by jackchit clearly states that he is going to NYC in the next few months, and has targeted Mark not because he had anything to do with the visit, but because he "seems to be the spiritual leader of these loons." Therefore, I retract my statement about jack not visiting NYC. He clearly intends to do so.

[Hyperviolet]

And let me make something clear:

I'm aware that in heated internet flame wars people throw around "threats" all the time, Bears fans arguing with Packer fans until one guy says, "Yeah, you come down here to Soldier Field and we'll knock your teeth out!"

I recognize those as meaningless.

That was NOT what we had here. What we had here was a man, already unstable, already having ruined his marriage over that instability, already celebrating the death of his wife, suddenly in potential legal trouble regarding his children... and based on THAT, in that state of mind, threatened the life of a man whose name he knows, whose face he knows, whose LOCATION he knows.

The difference between those two scenarios is night and day. One is a kiddie getting overheated and saying, "I'll kill you!!!" The other is a specific threat against a specific person in a specific place by someone already showing himself to be unstable.

And please, nobody insult my intelligence with, "He never made a specific threat on his life!!!" He said he would be "the last thing" Mark ever saw. Either he was threatening death or he was threatening blindness.

Or possibly a figure of speech. However, that is beyond the point. Jackchit should not be threatening Mark, and must be reported.

I still fail to see Avery's criminal activity in this now planned murder. You state that this is the case, no matter how you slice it. Thus, i invite you to report Avery to the authorities. I must admit, i think your evidence is extremely weak and chance of prosecution is virtually non-existant.

[CHF]

Let's remember too that Dylan's avatar over there is a gif file of somebody shooting someone who looks a lot like Gravy.

Dylan sure didn't take that Hardfire beating gracefully, did he?

[hellaeon]

God damn it why does all the fun between the loons happen outside of Aus????

Meh ignore him, he is a little baby. Call the waaaambulance if anything. Im pretty sure Mark knows how to handle a bit of trump change. I mean he is a DJ right? Let me guess he will drop some E's and try to make love to Mark at ground zero?

bah, he is nothing. Just a quack

<Arnie Voice> NUH THING</Arnie Voice>

[Mince]

Mince, threats of violence on the internet are everywhere.

That doesn't make the right. And in some cases, they are illegal.


I havent personally read any report of someone travelling outside their country to settle an internet feud via violence. I think the chance of this actually happening are highly unlikely, almost negligable.

But it's still possible. And hey, if everyone is wrong, and the threat is real, we are talking about a life here, are we not? Regardless of whether it is practical or not should not be an issue. That he made the threat is the only issue. It should not be made, regardless of its feasibility, and should not be tolerated. Jack Chit and Dylan Avery failed, respectively, on both accounts.


Dylans words are constantly placed under a microscope, he knows this and should've acted accordingly by being more responsible.


No. He should have acted responsibly because he is a responsible individual, not because his actions are being graded.

With every single threat of an ass kicking on the net, without exception, we never truly know if anything shall come of it. We use logic and common sense to gauge how real the threat is... and in this case, i cant help but feel this type of thinking has been abandoned in favour of an emotional response based purely on the personal dislike of Dylan Avery

You are correct. It would be a little ridiculous to investigate or guard against every e-threat. However, this has quite a different feel to it. What gives it that feel is that Gravy is very accessible. Now, suddenly, not much work has to be done to accomplish such a threat. This is why Jack Chit's threat and Dylan Avery's subsequent buffoonery should be given its due caution and attention.

[Dog Town]

Just to review;
A loon from LCF goes on about his wifes death, being a blessing in his research. Then same loon claims SS visited him. Same loon goes on to threaten Gravy. To which Do Over tells him, he can find Gravy at ground zero! Something said loon was not aware, and thanked Do Over for!
Do Over while having such an avatar, on his own forum.

Who the hell thinks he wished Gravy no harm? Pffft....

[Foolmewunz]

How anyone can say that this is silliness and not to be taken seriously is beyond me. We live in a world where people pull out guns and use them on other people, "to impress Jody Foster", where alternative media can inspire a Tim McVeigh, where feelings of being ostracized or inadequate can lead to Columbine, Montreal, or via the wayback machine - to the Texas campus shootings.

Hyperviolet, there is far too much evidence of what people will do for acceptance to just blow-off Dylan's stupid response. There is a large element of the troofer movement that are getting frustrated, and we're hearing more and more calls of "Enough debate! It's time for action!" The vast majority of their movement, IMHO, are mommy's-basement-malcontents. But there are more and more shriller and shriller voices showing up on their forums. These people are getting frustrated and infuriated, and there's no telling where it could lead.

I want more than anything for this to be Jackchit shooting his mouth off, but unlike many, he's not an anonymous blogger - if his info is real, he's posted his name and whereabouts. And remember that this is a guy who not only let his obsession with the movement ruin his marriage, but who believes God removed his wife as an obstacle to his battle to enlighten the world. And that's just the visible guy - Jackchit. The real concern is that in four days someone shows up at GZ with a picket sign that has a pointed tip, or decides to throw a brick in someone's face. Why not? It's been approved by Dylan, after all. Even when they closed the thread down, they didn't say, "Hey, this is reprehensible and we do not in any way condone threats of violence." They basically said, "ok, enough is enough boys, let's calm down....."

This is not to be taken lightly. Neither the threat from Jackchit, an obviously unstable individual, nor from the more likely threats... the anonymous hangers-on who might want to impress Jody Foster.

[Falcon Apoda]

Was it only yesterday that Dylan wrote this (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6753)?



Let's remember too that Dylan's avatar over there is a gif file of somebody shooting someone who looks a lot like Gravy.


Actually, that's the scene from Fight Club where Ed Norton starts kicking his own ass in his boss's office.

Strangely, his character refers to himself as "Jack".

[A W Smith]

And remember that this is a guy who not only let his obsession with the movement ruin his marriage, but who believes God removed his wife as an obstacle to his battle to enlighten the world.

His in-laws must think hes a real charmer. being thankful his ex wife is dead and all that. Did it ever occur to him that maybe it was the in-laws that called family services? or did he kill them already?

[hellaeon]

Its amazing how proving 911 suddenly became not about research but about violence. This guys thinks he was part of a conspiracy with David Beckham! hahaha

Hey JackaTwit, drop some more E's!

[Mince]

but who believes God removed his wife as an obstacle to his battle to enlighten the world.


I wonder why God didn't just enlighten the world for him and let his wife live.

[Rawkarma]

The law of unintended consequences continues to hold true. I said over and over again for the busybodies who contacted Social Services not to do so. And now their asinine behavior has ricocheted onto Mark, who I can't even recall posting in that thread.

Yes, Mark is in NYC and jackchit is in England. Yes, jackchit would probably never cough up the dough to carry out his threat. But given Dylan Avery's cold-blooded assist, does anyone here think it unlikely that some helpful NYC native might be inspired to do the deed himself? The people we engage on a daily basis are not the most rational of people.

Yes, people are only responsible for the things that they do. But when a consequence of an action is not only possible, but probable, then you bear a measure of responsibility for it. THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T MEDDLE IN OTHER PEOPLE'S BUSINESS WITHOUT GOOD CAUSE.

Disclaimers: I'm given to understand that Mark can take care of himself. I condemn both the threat and the actions of Dylan.

ON EDIT: The initial post by jackchit clearly states that he is going to NYC in the next few months, and has targeted Mark not because he had anything to do with the visit, but because he "seems to be the spiritual leader of these loons." Therefore, I retract my statement about jack not visiting NYC. He clearly intends to do so.

Issuing death threats at someone that was not even involved in the original thread should not be surprising to anyone that has read the irrational ramblings of JC.

Jackchit is showing even more signs that he is unstable.

"I said over and over again for the busybodies who contacted Social Services not to do so. And now their asinine behavior has ricocheted onto Mark, who I can't even recall posting in that thread."

How do you know social services even went to his home? We only have it on JC's word. How do you know someone concerned about the welfare of children, sorry, as you put it, "busybodies", from this forum contacted social services?

You don't.

"And now their asinine behavior has ricocheted onto Mark, who I can't even recall posting in that thread.""

The asinine behavior you presume was someone from this forum.

JC may just as easily be using this whole social services deal to justify -- in his fragile mind -- physical violence at a JREF.

He has picked someone that was not even involved in the original thread, and that made no mention of calling social services.

From his [JC's] words, and the fact we know Gravy didn't even post about social services in that original thread, he clearly justs wants an excuse to do harm to Gravy, and is justifying this to himself in yet more irrational behavior.

I don't know what you're smoking boloboffin, but you can't rationale JC's actions and blame others here for it ricocheting.

I recall you being one of the people in that original thread that was urging people to take JC's word with a pinch of salt.

When you don't even know that social services ever visited JC, I'd heed your own advice.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Issuing death threats at someone that was not even involved in the original thread should not be surprising to anyone that has read the irrational ramblings of JC.

Jackchit is showing even more signs that he is unstable.

"I said over and over again for the busybodies who contacted Social Services not to do so. And now their asinine behavior has ricocheted onto Mark, who I can't even recall posting in that thread."

How do you know social services even went to his home? We only have it on JC's word. How do you know someone concerned about the welfare of children, sorry, as you put it, "busybodies", from this forum contacted social services?

You don't.

"And now their asinine behavior has ricocheted onto Mark, who I can't even recall posting in that thread.""

The asinine behavior you presume was someone from this forum.

JC may just as easily be using this whole social services deal to justify -- in his fragile mind -- physical violence at a JREF.

He has picked someone that was not even involved in the original thread, and that made no mention of calling social services.

From his [JC's] words, and the fact we know Gravy didn't even post about social services in that original thread, he clearly justs wants an excuse to do harm to Gravy, and is justifying this to himself in yet more irrational behavior.

I don't know what you're smoking boloboffin, but you can't rationale JC's actions and blame others here for it ricocheting.

I recall you being one of the people in that original thread that was urging people to take JC's word with a pinch of salt.

When you don't even know that social services ever visited JC, I'd heed your own advice.

It is also unreasonable to assume that the only people that could/would have reported him to Child Services were people involved in the thread referenced in the OP. It could just as easily have been coworkers, neighbors, family, etc.

[Stellafane]

I see no excuse for Avery's behavior at all. Personally, I believe it's very likely -- perhaps even inevitable -- that within the next few months, there will be an incident where a truther physically assaults (or worse) someone who doesn't agree with him.

The whole thing reminds me of the pro-life movement. The leaders went around insisting that abortion is murder. So eventually, the inevitable happens, and a few less tightly wrapped followers start taking these words literally. And what would any sane person do to a baby killer in their midst? Why, they'd kill them before they can kill again -- that's a justifiable homicide if there ever was one. That's when the bombings and shootings started. Of course, the leaders then backtracked and claimed "I never meant to do the abortionists any harm," as if calling them murderers was some trivial thing.

Now you have the truthers like Avery going around saying that murderers are walking free among us, in our government, police, fire department, all over the place. If you really and truly believed this, wouldn't you want to bring them to justice? And what better justice than dishing out some of their own medicine? Sooner or later some tormented, confused soul is going to take Avery and company's message way too seriously, and act out on it. And Avery will bear an enormous amount of blame and responsibility for it.

These people have got to realize this isn't the Matrix or some role-playing game. This is real people and real lives.

[CHF]

These people are getting frustrated and infuriated, and there's no telling where it could lead.

I'm sure that at some point there will be an ugly incident. These people honestly believe that the fate of the world rests on their retarded theories being accepted as fact.

Someone in that state of mind is very capable of assault and/or murder.

[Brainache]

I thought James Randi was our "spiritual leader". Does this mean I've been sacrificing all those goats to the wrong bloke?

I suppose sacrificial goat with Gravy makes more sense than a Randi goat.
Or maybe not. I'm confused now.

Who can help me out here?

Jack?

Dylan?

Who should I believe?

[Dog Town]

I'm sure that at some point there will be an ugly incident. These people honestly believe that the fate of the world rests on their retarded theories being accepted as fact.

Someone in that state of mind is very capable of assault and/or murder.

I have no doubts, that they will go postal at some point. I see the next eco-terrorist, or weather report underground what ever, coming from their ranks!

[Foolmewunz]

I have no doubts, that they will go postal at some point. I see the next eco-terrorist, or weather report underground what ever, coming from their ranks!

Maybe I'm spending too much time following their rantings, because about six months ago, I would have vehemently disagreed with you on this, but now? I fear you may be correct. The 911 Truth groups have created a rallying point for many different factions, and while some are just profiteers and others are just excitable (and excited) dilettantes, there are also the group that have always concerned me - the impressionable newcomers who buy into the glossy packaging, slick editing, and new sounds of Loose Change, and then start frequenting the boards, only to hear and see veterans and spiritual leaders issuing calls to arms.

Dylan's just a self-serving idiot. While he should've shut Jackchit up in a heartbeat, he did the same (nothing) as with the little nazi girl (and Russell's accurate reportage of the LCF reaction to that is still available for all to see). Just ignore the miscreants because after all, "they're on our side, man". Just as the peace movement in the 60's had a number of ultimately violent and destructive (albeit self-destructive in several cases) off-shoots, as did the civil rights movement, I fear that the Truth Movement will spawn the same. They're getting frustrated and that makes some of them dangerous, IMHO.

@Stellafane - Yes... I totally neglected to mention the anti-abortion crowd, which is probably the best example of what we're possibly seeing here. (It was lurking in some dimly lit corner of my brain, but I couldn't remember exactly what movement had gone over the deep end, as I was posting during my first morning cup of coffee.)
When God is on your side, you think you can do anything, and when you've been convinced (as have the Troofers as well as the anti-abortion radicals) by your leaders that your opposition is THE ENEMY, and that they are murderers or supporters of murderers, it's a very short (il)logical step from screaming and waving signs to modern day vigilantism.

[stateofgrace]

Posted by Dylan Avery @ LCF Apr 3 2007, 11:35 AM


We ban people who lack the basic skills of mature conversation.

http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6487 (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6487)

Posted by Dylan Avery LCF 03/04/07 12:48pm

He's at Ground Zero, every Saturday.

In response to a death threat issued by a LCF member Jackchit.

Posted @ 01:21 pm by mynameis

Figures that the heartless and mindless Randi worshiping morons would stoop so low.

tunicblue Apr 3 2007, 01:24 PM

I am 100% behind you on this. Gravy is scum. The world would be better without him.

Jackchit ,Apr 3 2007, 01:25 PM

You **** with me I **** with you, I have had enough of the j-ref pussies

Tunicblue, Apr 3 2007, 01:28 PM
If you are going to do anything to groovy gravy then dont write it down anymore.
Tunicblue,Apr 3 2007, 01:31 PM

I personally wouldnt give a toss if those despicable jrefers died a horrible death.

Jackchit ,Apr 3 2007, 01:53 PM

Don't worry about gravy any longer.
murder? lol no murder he just won't be a problem any more .
Discobee,Apr 3 2007, 01:54 PM
They're bastards over there, I was thinking the same thing about them threatening to report me to the FBI tips program for 'Al-Qaeda membership'.
Cheansaw Apr 3 2007, 02:03 PM

LOL you joined here just to post that? You should have just not registered in the first place, it kinda makes YOU look retarded

Revolutionary91Apr 3 2007, 02:04 PM

And eye for an eye my friend...
Gravy wants to break up jack's family then by all means...
Headhunter ,Apr 3 2007, 02:50 PM

I think the best way to go at it is to find out everything about Mark Roberts, were he works, lives, the whole gambit, and make his life miserable.
As to the JREF member who actuall DID the deed, that's the guy I'd be going after as well, to punch his lights out.
Tunicblue ,Apr 3 2007, 03:05 PM
Yes the person who did this is as bad as a paedophile.
Stopsnitchin,Apr 3 2007, 03:11 PM

All i can say is those JREF bastards are a bunch of sick and twisted **** ups…………………Gravy deserves to get the **** beaten out of him.



http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6799


I have just found my new signature.

Posted by Dylan Avery LCF 03/04/07 11:35 am.

We ban people who lack the basic skills of mature conversation.

http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6487 (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6487)

[kookbreaker]

That's pretty freaking chilling Stateof Grace.

Honestly, its like what McVeigh would have been writing and reading had there been web message boards in his day.

[T.A.M.]

The profound difference in attitudes towards the opposite side is this...

WE think THEY are stupid/ignorant/childish

THEY think WE are evil/horrible/and wish harm/death toward us.

TAM;(

[GwionX]

I see no excuse for Avery's behavior at all. Personally, I believe it's very likely -- perhaps even inevitable -- that within the next few months, there will be an incident where a truther physically assaults (or worse) someone who doesn't agree with him.

The whole thing reminds me of the pro-life movement. The leaders went around insisting that abortion is murder. So eventually, the inevitable happens, and a few less tightly wrapped followers start taking these words literally. And what would any sane person do to a baby killer in their midst? Why, they'd kill them before they can kill again -- that's a justifiable homicide if there ever was one. That's when the bombings and shootings started. Of course, the leaders then backtracked and claimed "I never meant to do the abortionists any harm," as if calling them murderers was some trivial thing.

Now you have the truthers like Avery going around saying that murderers are walking free among us, in our government, police, fire department, all over the place. If you really and truly believed this, wouldn't you want to bring them to justice? And what better justice than dishing out some of their own medicine? Sooner or later some tormented, confused soul is going to take Avery and company's message way too seriously, and act out on it. And Avery will bear an enormous amount of blame and responsibility for it.

These people have got to realize this isn't the Matrix or some role-playing game. This is real people and real lives.

I absoutely agree. I remember reading about some "believer" that went to Bohemian Grove armed, and determined to kill the "child molesting oligarchy"
His inspiration? Alex Jones rants.

It is clear that people like Alex jones, and Dylan Avery are just looking to make a buck off of the tragic deaths of fellow Americans; through their cottage industry storefronts, radio and movie deals, ect.. But they must realize that many of their patrons dwell in the fringe to begin with. Likened to yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater. There comes a time where these media-active conspriacists have to be held accountable for their fear-mongering, and baseless accusations.

[boloboffin]

Self-serving conscience salve.

There. Fixed that for you.

[The Doc]

Sorry guys but I'm lost for words.

[T.A.M.]

Sorry guys but I'm lost for words.

Dont worry, the words will come...when they do, take the first 100 of them, type them, but then delete them, then make your post...you'll feel better.

TAM:)

[Darth Rotor]

Hyperviolet:

1. Jackchit has show through his internet actions to be unstable, and somewhat obsessed with Mark Roberts (Gravy). He created a myspace calling Mark a "Gay Spy", and had the LCFers join it. On it he made fun of the man. Mark was barely involved in the thread that brought this latest threat by jackchit on, yet Jackchit chose to pick on Mark, and make him the target of his violent threat.

2. Remember the guy who killed himself online recently. People were online while he was threatening to do it, and not convinced he was legit in his threats, some egged him on...he did it. remember Columbine. We had a similiar episode to Columbine in Montreal recently...the guy had a site online where he made all sorts of "threats".

3. Is the risk of this threat being carried out low...absolutely. Should it be brushed off...absolutely NOT.

4. You are correct, Dylan should have banned the guy immediately. Has he done so yet...nope. What does that say about the truth "leader".

Yes there was/is alot of trash talk going on, and when it comes to the debunkers here and the die hard truthers, it is very much like a war, or a playground squabble, but thats the way it is. Both sides have said a lot, but if you look at what group has been more rational on this issue, I think it is the debunkers.

Are you aware of the original post Jackchit made that sparked the whole Social Services issue?

TAM:)
Ok, let me get this straight: Jackchit is at risk for killing himself on the internet????? :confused: :confused:

DR

[ktesibios]

There comes a time where these media-active conspriacists have to be held accountable for their fear-mongering, and baseless accusations.

People who encourage harrassment and even violence on their Websites or blogs might find it instructive to read about the Mulugeta Seraw murder (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE6DB163AF932A15750C0A9659582 60) and its aftermath.

[The Doc]

Funny how Jaguar and Pdoh both have an obsession with troy, both are incredibly arrogant and JAQ off all day.

https://www2.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=27396589&postID=5548442926220880806
pdoherty76 (http://www.blogger.com/profile/32925772) said... mr smasher,

troy regularly makes threats but he is still posting on screwloosechange forums.

Do you condone the calling of the social services? Or the jref trolling group stealingh all my accounts?

Will your blog talk about greening?
How often has Troy in WV made threats against people?

Why is his behaviour condoned?

Similarities in bold.

I'd put money on it. Jaguar is Doh'P

[parky76]

So has anyone called any authorities about the threat? Is it an actual threat in legal terms?

[hellaeon]

People People People!

Dont let us degenerate into what they are! Argueing amongst ourselves!
This is simple. Jackachit is a fool who does not understand Actions have repercussions! Im sure somethings coming to him for this latest episode.

Its easy to be that dumb when the world exists only the way you think it does

[jdhammer]

I'd like to see/hear a confirmation that someone has forwarded these threats to the proper authorities. Just a confirmation that something is being done, not specifically what or how. After all, we know all the truthers are watching right now, and surely jackchit and those supporting him are also keeping a close eye.

A death threat is a death threat. Let's not pretend that just because this is all taking place online means that it can be ignored or taken at less than face value.

On the plus side, this I believe marks the beginning of the self-destruction of the Loose Change based truth movement. If Dylan doesn't act soon, his reputation will be too tarred to take this thing any further. Besides, I don't even think they'll have a message board in a couple of days, and that's the head of the beast. Cut off the head, and the body will....well, you know....

[jdhammer]

Check out this quote from the LC thread:

And the comment "last thing you'll ever see", if you remove the word "ever" simply means being knocked out.

What a whack job. If you take out last, thing, 'll (from you'll), ever, and see, and add I and love, you get "I love you". Clearly not any sort of threat.

Excuse me, I think I have to vomit.

[parky76]

Its disappointing that Dylan didn't kill this topic immediately. I thought he was a little smarter then that. I guess I give him credit when credit isn't due. He hasn't even removed it, just closed it, so everyone including the police can read it.

False-flag forum threat?...=)

[Metullus]

I bought a gun nearly a year ago, and haven't been able to use it outside the shooting range. If you or Jack Chit aren't merely making cowardly, empty keyboard threats, PM for my address.

WTF?

[Brainache]

WTF?

He is such a Potsie.

[CHF]

Check out this quote from the LC thread:

And the comment "last thing you'll ever see", if you remove the word "ever" simply means being knocked out.


Well gee wiz, that would change everything! :eek:

Assault isn't against the law, is it?

[Dr. Lao]

Not Potsie

Ralph Malph

This loose change situation has reached a critical point:


Time to fire up the railcars to take Dylan and his friends to those large camps that we have been setting up in the remote corners of the nation.

Everyone, remember:

XB Calico 42 Creek

Meet at the usual place and remember

Tubal Cane

[Gravy]

Well, this has been an interesting read. Thanks for your support, all.

[AZCat]

Well, this has been an interesting read. Thanks for your support, all.


Thank you, Gravy. Your perserverance in the face of dangerous nuttery is a lesson to us all.

[munki?]

Ironically, I was threatened on a forum the other day by a twoofer. He actually told me my, "days are numbered." I reported him, and let him know that I did. Of course, he then back peddled and said that the globalists I support are the ones whose days are numbered, or some such nonsense. It was a really strange experience. I realize that the, "internet buffer" allows many (including myself, at times) to be smarmy and down right rude in some instances, but I have never become so frustrated that I considered threatening someones life. But to even go as far as to actually say something in public about it... It's completely beyond me.

As I was reading this thread I really couldn't help but further entertain a notion that occurred to me some time ago. This isn't about truth for twoofers. This has become a sojourn to be right. Are we, as skeptics of the conspiracy theory, to blame? Have we provided twoofers with a tangible enemy for them to fight, since the faceless NWO is so out of reach? I can't help but think that yes, in a sense, that could be the case. I've been called a "shill", a "disinfo agent", even a "murderer." Seeing this pathetic display of yet more passive aggressive posturing by twoofers really has solidified this notion for me.

As others have suggested, the guy is obviously all talk, but to see the support that he has, and to see them all fall into line and condone said threat in the form of advice and placation... wow... I'm at a loss.

The "truth" movement is a Cult.

[CHF]

Well, this has been an interesting read. Thanks for your support, all.

I really don't know how you maintain such patience with these people, Mark. I guess that's what makes you such a great ambassador for the truth.

This whole situation really does present a great bit of irony:

The twoofers claim to be bravely fighting against a massive, evil, government that is willing to murder its own citizens in order to silence dissent and introduce a police state....and yet who is the target of death threats? Those who challenge the brave truthseekers of course!

[John Blonn]

Ironically, I was threatened on a forum the other day by a twoofer. He actually told me my, "days are numbered." I reported him, and let him know that I did. Of course, he then back peddled and said that the globalists I support are the ones whose days are numbered, or some such nonsense. It was a really strange experience. I realize that the, "internet buffer" allows many (including myself, at times) to be smarmy and down right rude in some instances, but I have never become so frustrated that I considered threatening someones life. But to even go as far as to actually say something in public about it... It's completely beyond me.

As I was reading this thread I really couldn't help but further entertain a notion that occurred to me some time ago. This isn't about truth for twoofers. This has become a sojourn to be right. Are we, as skeptics of the conspiracy theory, to blame? Have we provided twoofers with a tangible enemy for them to fight, since the faceless NWO is so out of reach? I can't help but think that yes, in a sense, that could be the case. I've been called a "shill", a "disinfo agent", even a "murderer." Seeing this pathetic display of yet more passive aggressive posturing by twoofers really has solidified this notion for me.

As others have suggested, the guy is obviously all talk, but to see the support that he has, and to see them all fall into line and condone said threat in the form of advice and placation... wow... I'm at a loss.

The "truth" movement is a Cult.

I agree with you here. The creepiest thing for me was not the threat in itself - as you and many have pointed out, these are quite common on teh internetz. The thing that bothered me the most was how there was little objection from anyone on LCF, most notably Dylan, rejecting this course of action. It finally took some random moderator to close down the freakshow before it got even more horrendous.

[Gravy]

I agree with you here. The creepiest thing for me was not the threat in itself - as you and many have pointed out, these are quite common on teh internetz. The thing that bothered me the most was how there was little objection from anyone on LCF, most notably Dylan, rejecting this course of action. It finally took some random moderator to close down the freakshow before it got even more horrendous.Indeed. Avery and Quest both posted there.

If I had a nickel for every time a Looser said he was going to meet me at Ground Zero, I'd have...several nickels.

Mr. Holmes (Jackchit), if you are in fact traveling to New York City in the next few months, I would very much like to talk to you in person. Email me first, because I am seldom at Ground Zero these days. You have my email address.

[Kopji]

Since the entire jref forum membership has been threatened, jref itself might have legal standing to request that Invisionfree take action against LC.

[LashL]

There. Fixed that for you.

I have to disagree with you, boloboffin. It wasn't a matter of "busybodies", nor a matter of "unintended consequences", nor a matter of Rawkarma engaging in "self-serving conscience salv[ing]." It appears from your posts in this thread that you have presumed facts not in evidence, that you have accepted unsubstantiated assumptions as facts, and that you have leapt to conclusions without any basis in fact, even while you have purported to chastise others for committing the same (or lesser) errors. I suspect that you'll recognize that when you think about it.

As for the question of whether jackchit's posts are "threats" against Mark in the legal sense, yes, they are. There is very little question about that, frankly.

But I suspect that Mark will deal with that and will deal with the likes of the lunatic "jackchit" on his own terms and I suspect that he is not the least bit intimidated by the crackpot loser at issue ("jackchit"). That is not to say that he ought not or does not take personal threats by troofers seriously - he should. Particularly given the cult mentality of some troofers and the blind adherence to the cult that many of them portray.

[~enigma~]

How often has Troy in WV made threats against people?

Why is his behaviour condoned?
Hello pdope. Why are you back here? You know your just going to get banned as a sock again.

[LashL]

Since the entire jref forum membership has been threatened, jref itself might have legal standing to request that Invisionfree take action against LC.

In a word, no.

[OMGturt1es]

Originally Posted by Donnie Most@LC
I bought a gun nearly a year ago, and haven't been able to use it outside the shooting range. If you or Jack Chit aren't merely making cowardly, empty keyboard threats, PM for my address.

WTF?


:(

the reason that 911truthers are more dangerous than other CTers is because their delusions have profound implications on the expectations of their very futures. these are folk that, if sucked into the CT completely, honestly believe in the NWO and illuminati stealing their rights and ways of life. anyone that actually believes that such will occur is dangerous, because this predicted future is certainly something worth fighting against.

and that's why religious fanatics are amazingly dangerous. they are taking orders from god. who cares what goes on here compared to the duty to god? it's a scary mindset, and the threats that these folks make are very real, and sometimes acted upon.

i don't suspect that any of the 911 truthers are going to actually shoot anyone, but i'd certainly feel much better had the threat come from someone whose membership wasn't to a CT that necessarily exacts such serious implications on their preceived future.

did anyone here initially report this fellow to SS? i don't like the idea of reporting anyone to SS, but i must admit i'm torn on the issue. this fellow's previous rants do come across as ****ing crazy as all ****ing hell-- especially the "god removing obsticles" part.

regardless, if someone here did report him to the SS, i think they should acknowledge such. i'd also suggest apologizing, and attempting to explain to JC that the reporting was due to serious concerns, and not simply some attempt to **** with a 911truther. JC has assumed nefarious intent, and i don't blame him for being pissed, but perhaps a serious conversation could help him to, at the very least, understand why the SS arguably should have been called. most of us are completely anonymous to the truthers anyways, so if any of us did report him to the SS, i doubt we'd have to worry about anyone knocking on our doors.

while i think 911truthers are delusional, i don't think we should encourage this sort of situation. i think this seriously ups the risk of otherwise stable folk falling off the deep end. this could be interpreted as a "line in the sand", so-to-speak, for some otherwise rational folk, that may eventually have come to their senses.

for the sake of those that have simply bought into the lies perpetuated by those that ought to know better, as well as for the sake of gravy, i think-- IF anyone here reported JC to SS-- an acknowledgement ought to be made, followed by a sincere apology/explaination. and again, i wouldn't blame any of you for reporting JC... i was/am torn on the issue myself.

i'll go first: not it!

[OMGturt1es]

Since the entire jref forum membership has been threatened, jref itself might have legal standing to request that Invisionfree take action against LC.

that would just piss them off more.

some of those folk are never going to change their minds, but many may. i know my goals have always been to present counter argument so that otherwise rational folk don't wander down an empty road.

i'd suggest we ignore/make fun of the loons, but continue to do our best to point out LC's lies for the sake of the "on the fence" folk that keep joining up.

[Brainache]

:(
....
IF anyone here reported JC to SS-- an acknowledgement ought to be made, followed by a sincere apology/explaination. and again, i wouldn't blame any of you for reporting JC... i was/am torn on the issue myself.

i'll go first: not it!

Wasn't me. I was against the whole thing from the start.

I for one welcome JackChit's enlightened reign of terror over all who seek to protect children from loonies and Gravy in particular who sets a very poor role model for spiritual leaders everywhere.

(the above post is sarcasm. You can't be too careful these days)

[R.Mackey]

for the sake of those that have simply bought into the lies perpetuated by those that ought to know better, as well as for the sake of gravy, i think-- IF anyone here reported JC to SS-- an acknowledgement ought to be made, followed by a sincere apology/explaination. and again, i wouldn't blame any of you for reporting JC... i was/am torn on the issue myself.

Don't confuse the issue.

If JackChit or whatever his name is thinks whatever happened to him (supposing it really did, and he's not just reacting to the mere mention of social services) was illegal, treacherous, or just plain rude, he can take recourse in a mature fashion.

What we're discussing here is that he issued a credible and unambiguous death threat against a single, easily identified individual. That's it. He's responsible for his actions. All this other stuff is irrelevant.

As we expect him to conduct himself in a mature fashion, we should endeavor to do the same. But this is just common courtesy and civilized behavior. It has nothing to do with his actions.

[uk_dave]

As we expect him to conduct himself in a mature fashion, we should endeavor to do the same. But this is just common courtesy and civilized behavior. It has nothing to do with his actions.

I totally agree.

As for Jackchit, he's just a **** ******* ***** with a ****** small ***** *** which should be *** *** painted with a green stripe and rammed **** ***** sideways ****** volvo axel grease ***** while singing the National ********* Anthem and eating **** ****** with a chocolate ***** so that he never ****** ****** again, even **** ****** with a flower in his ****.

I feel better now. :D

[munki?]

I totally agree.

As for Jackchit, he's just a **** ******* ***** with a ****** small ***** *** which should be *** *** painted with a green stripe and rammed **** ***** sideways ****** volvo axel grease ***** while singing the National ********* Anthem and eating **** ****** with a chocolate ***** so that he never ****** ****** again, even **** ****** with a flower in his ****.

I feel better now. :D

I was hoping, as I read your tirade, that you would include volvo axle grease. I'm quite glad to see that you did.

[Babbylonian]

for the sake of those that have simply bought into the lies perpetuated by those that ought to know better, as well as for the sake of gravy, i think-- IF anyone here reported JC to SS-- an acknowledgement ought to be made, followed by a sincere apology/explaination. and again, i wouldn't blame any of you for reporting JC... i was/am torn on the issue myself.

i'll go first: not it!
No. If someone here actually did it, they should not "out" themselves, nor should they try to provide explanation, justification or apologication (couldn't help myself). It would not help the situation (if there is one apart from the discussion) in any way, and if the guy is truly nutty enough to get violent it would only provide confirmation that the evil JREFers are responsible. It was made apparent during the thread on LCF that these people don't care whether or not Gravy is the one who made the supposed report - they like the idea of violence against him based simply on his effective opposition to their theories.

Jackchit provides a perfect example for why anonymous tips should remain anonymous. If he is serious then he'd go after anyone he feels is "against" him, whether they took real action or not. Giving such a nutbar the person who actually took action (assuming there is one, of course) could only inflame him further.

[OMGturt1es]

Don't confuse the issue.

If JackChit or whatever his name is thinks whatever happened to him (supposing it really did, and he's not just reacting to the mere mention of social services) was illegal, treacherous, or just plain rude, he can take recourse in a mature fashion.

What we're discussing here is that he issued a credible and unambiguous death threat against a single, easily identified individual. That's it. He's responsible for his actions. All this other stuff is irrelevant.

As we expect him to conduct himself in a mature fashion, we should endeavor to do the same. But this is just common courtesy and civilized behavior. It has nothing to do with his actions.

i agree. the reporting, if it occured, was 100% legal, and in no way justifies death threats.

my point is that these 911 CT folk-- some of them!-- are loony to the point that they actually would believe that we, at jref, are actually part of the big conspiracy. as humorous as this it, it is dangerous, because some of these people are inherently paranoid and delusional.

i don't think the death threat is actually anything to lose sleep over, but i still think it's something that should be taken seriously. if i were gravy, i wouldn't be very comfortable with paranoid, delusional people publically planning my murder, and offering weapons to anyone willing to pull the trigger.

and that's why i think we should be careful to make certain that these folk understand our positions and motivations. these people are already ****ed in the head enough. we need not give them further "reason" to act on their delusions. and we shouldn't feed the fire, ever, because we may be playing with explosives.

at this point, i'm not suggesting we "take the high road" just to ensure we are more mature, i'm suggesting that we are dealing with delusional, paranoid folk that believe in a CT with implications that are worth fighting against, so we should be careful that we not put ourselves in danger.

people are shot and killed all the time. humans are often unstable. these folk are just letting us know what demographic they fall into. sure, a lot of **** talking goes on in forums, but this is different. we should treat it seriously.

[Kopji]

that would just piss them off more.

some of those folk are never going to change their minds, but many may. i know my goals have always been to present counter argument so that otherwise rational folk don't wander down an empty road.

i'd suggest we ignore/make fun of the loons, but continue to do our best to point out LC's lies for the sake of the "on the fence" folk that keep joining up.

Yeah, I'm sometimes of two minds about this. Merely threatening people due to their paranoid delusions is one thing, but their mods refusing to remove the threats (and even helping out) shifts LC into a kind of collective criminal activity like authoring viruses. If their whole site was pulled down I'd feel bad for about a millisecond.

[OMGturt1es]

Yeah, I'm sometimes of two minds about this. Merely threatening people due to their paranoid delusions is one thing,


merely?

i agree with what you go on to say, but i think the threat should be taken seriously. many of the regulars at LCF are, well, ****ing crazy. i certainly wouldn't want them publically planning my murder.


but their mods refusing to remove the threats (and even helping out) shifts LC into a kind of collective criminal activity like authoring viruses.


agreed. avery's actions-- or lack thereof-- are disgusting.

but i think that if there's any risk that any of the truthers should fall off the deep end and act out violently, having the LC forums pulled would only increase this risk. it would piss them off, and offer "evidence" to support thier delusions. many seem convinced that JREF are shills, NWO card carriers, etc, and many seem passionate about resisting forseen attacks on their freedoms.

i think avery needs to grow the **** up, and realize that sometimes crazy delusions lead to crazy actions. like i said, his response disgusts me.


If their whole site was pulled down I'd feel bad for about a millisecond.

neither would i. they have it coming.

but we know these folk fall into a demographic that doesn't handle reality well. perhaps we shouldn't give them a good dose of reality untill they are ready, because i don't want to feel bad if one of 'em snaps. at this point, these guys honestly believe that "we" are responsible for killing 3,000 american citizens. some of 'em would feel completely morally justified in killing some of us. as mind boggingly stupid as this is, the responses to that thread certainly illustrate that the implications of their delusions don't fail to impact their version of reality.

but, yeah, it sure would be funny.

:p

[westprog]

I'd like to see/hear a confirmation that someone has forwarded these threats to the proper authorities. Just a confirmation that something is being done, not specifically what or how.

I think that's up to the person being threatened. If he wants to take any further steps, that's his prerogative.

He hasn't posted on this matter himself, AFAIK. There may be good reason for that.

[westprog]

Am I missing something here? I don't understand what beef Jackchit has with Gravy personally?

All very odd.

Read all the messages in the thread. It wasn't an individual who sent the social round, it was JREF. The JREF conspiracy did it. Give them credit, they apply their idiotic thinking across the board.

Jackchit picked on one person whose name and location was known. He's also someone that Jackchit has been stalking and persecuting for some time.

[westprog]

Dave, i agree Dylan did not handle this as well as he should have.

I just think some of the reactions here are a bit Jerry Springer, and are based on a personal dislike of Avery. Not on the reality of the situation.

I don't think anyone here thinks that the threat is likely to be carried out. However, threats like this have to be taken seriously.

It's the subsequent comments on the thread that are scarier. This is from page 2.

I think it would be nice to know who ALL the JREF's are just to know.

If the sorry **** who did this is reading this thread, maybe you have
not heard, KARMA IS INSTANT in the Aquarian age...enjoy your CANCER


If I were Jack, I'd be launching a high tech investigation to identify the offending JREF

And as far as threats... Gravy deserves to get the **** beaten out of him.

Gravy is yust going to get some ass kicking and ******** is probably yust upset.. Who wouldnt?

If you were to something to Gravy or that JREF (Hey JREF's...noticed I said IF) it would be 100% o.k. in my book,

There was other ways of ****ing people up than with physical violence

gravy still needs some ass kicking

Incidentally, the gun-wavin' macho response to Jackchit's threats is probably not the most constructive approach.

[The_Fire]

I think that's up to the person being threatened. If he wants to take any further steps, that's his prerogative.


Depends on the rules of the various countries. In some countries, knowing about a death threat and failing to report it is a crime in itself.

[westprog]

I found this on another Loose Change thread. It seems he does a lot of this kind of thing.

A week prior to this Jack sent me a message implying that I would be in danger and if I telephoned him he would tell me about it.

He has found personal information about me on google and used it to try to scare me (he found out I was going on a University Mountaineering trip to the Lake District and told me that someone in the Lake District had tried to kill me).

Needless to say I`m quite unharmed.
If anyone wants to have copies of the sort of messages he sends, PM me and I will forward them to you.

If after knowing this you decide to belive him. Great thats your choice; just making sure you`re all in the loop about the sorts of things Jack likes to get up to in his spare time.

[OMGturt1es]

No. If someone here actually did it, they should not "out" themselves, nor should they try to provide explanation, justification or apologication (couldn't help myself). It would not help the situation (if there is one apart from the discussion) in any way, and if the guy is truly nutty enough to get violent it would only provide confirmation that the evil JREFers are responsible.


i don't agree.

the problem may be that JC saw this as an act specifically targeting him, not as something done from genuine concern. this would obviously piss him off. death threats are still ****ing crazy, but the way he may see this could "push him off the edge", if we assume he's anywhere nearly the cliff.

if someone here did report JC to the SS, perhaps an apology could help cool JC down. i don't think 911 CTers are immune to apologies. i don't think it could hurt to offer an apology or explaination-- so long as it's anonymous. and most of us here haven't posted any details about real life existence.

and if it didn't help, oh well. it was worth a shot.

i don't like the idea of pissing off people that we know are ****ing crazy. this guy, from previous posts, is obviously delusional. i think we should do our best to cool him down, not because it's our duty, but because insane people can do insane things when they are pissed.

you DO have a point though, that if someone here "confesses", many LCers will see it as confirmation that JREF are just evil shills. then again, if people here don't deny it either, then they'll take it the same way. likely, even if everyone here denies it, they'll still think we're responsible.


It was made apparent during the thread on LCF that these people don't care whether or not Gravy is the one who made the supposed report - they like the idea of violence against him based simply on his effective opposition to their theories.


that's true. but they are also very angry, and many people can't deal with emotions and logic at the same time. 911 truthers seem to rely on emotion a lot. they just "feel" that 911 was an inside job. they shout and yell. they scream slogans that feel comfortable. these are people that feed off emotion. if we have any reason to believe that any of them are capable of flying off the handle, we need to be careful not to **** with their emotions too much, because they just can't handle it.

i do think many are already convinced that gravy is some shill/government agnet/etc, and i'm willing to bet a number of 'em, therefore, extend onto gravy partial responsibility for the murder of 3,000 innocent americans. they are also delusional and paranoid, and many are likely convinced that more murders are just around the corner, followed by the destruction of their rights.

i don't expect these people to start shooting at gravy at ground zero, but if they are overly pissed at us, perhaps we should do our best to ease the tension. in general, i try not to piss people off, but i really avoid pissing off people in mental hospitals. especially those that already thing i may be partially responsible for murdering 3,000 people.

you may be right that nothing good will come of my suggestions, but i think it's worth a shot. i don't think 911 truthers are evil, terrible people unable to relate to others in an emotional context, i just think they are delusional, emotional, and living in a reality that follows rules that may encrouage confrontation.


Jackchit provides a perfect example for why anonymous tips should remain anonymous.


if the tip came from this forum, so long as the poster has not posted personal info, then it is anonymous. i should have probably been more careful to exclude those that may have posted personal info, though. in such a case, i agree with you entirely. if JC and others know who you are in real life, or where you live, or where you work...


If he is serious then he'd go after anyone he feels is "against" him, whether they took real action or not. Giving such a nutbar the person who actually took action (assuming there is one, of course) could only inflame him further.

i think he wants to go after someone because he is pissed. i think he's already pretty bad with critical thinking skills. with or without a "confession", he's convinced it was JREF. if it was, at least maybe the poster can carry on some sort of PM or Email discussion to try to cool him down.

if not, we should at least deny it.

by neither confessing, nor denying it, we look "guilty" anyways, especially to those that require such a low level of proof that they are convinced that the government was behind 911.

[Comsat Angel]

Well, I got in touch with Salford Children's Services, who promptly said "tell the police". We have a seconded social work student who would have been able to give chapter and verse on this, but she's on leave for a couple of weeks. Anyway, I've printed off both this thread and the other one and will pop round to Salford Police Station this afternoon, as it's only a few minutes walk from me. They can decide whether to take it further.
As for those who advocate not contacting anyone, Google "Victoria Climbie". The report into her case has been used to develop the Family Action Model when any situation involving children exists.

ETA I'm pretty sure Jackchit is spouting complete nonsense, but "pretty sure" isn't "100% certain".