How Could One Being Create All Life on Earth? [Archive] - Page 2

g4macdad

7th April 2007, 01:17 PM

That quote of George Carlin's always bugged me. Because if there was a 50% wish granting rate to prayer (or star wishing or sun worship) than you should pray often for much. If you prayed a thousand times a day for a million dollars that would be 500 million dollars a day. He meant to say that praying was effective as sun worship (or star wishing) and I hardly think it's 50%. But it does remind me of my favorite optical illusion:

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/video8.htm

Anyhow, I've been praying for the OP to go away--but so far, no luck.

I guess I'm about as lucky as all the Christian passengers on the 9-11 flight praying for the plane to land safely (as recorded on their phone calls home). I guess god was answering to "Allah" that day...the flight recorders recorded the hijackers praising "allah" as they went to their eternal rewards...now THAT is faith! You know, Christians just don't sacrifice themselves for god enough...they just don't seem eager to meet their "happily ever after". Why might that be? How come those passengers weren't whooping it up to finally get to go the forever birthday party in the sky in one fell swoop? No cancer, or long term suffering--just "zap". Ungrateful, those Christians, I guess.

Ah now we are getting somewhere. You see the people who are afraid of terrorists are not real Christians. If they knew the Bible they would not be afraid to die at all.

These are mainstream Americans, just like you, who really believe in nothing. Thats why they are so afraid. I don't blame them! I would be too.

16Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you? 17If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple.

<(((><

articulett

7th April 2007, 01:24 PM

You really don't know a thing about science, do you? Wow, you make me depressed.

Oh, I'm sure he knows enough to go to an evidence-based doctor should he break his arm rather than pray for healing...I'm sure he flies on evidence based airlines instead of astrally projecting...I'm sure he uses an evidence based computer rather than trying to send his inane thoughts via visualization, prayer, Gregorian chants or whatever the faithful are wasting their time with these days. I'm sure he's sold on the evidence based notions of the spherical earth which is not the center of the galaxy despite no mention of this salient fact by an omniscient anything...I'm sure everything he owns and values is brought to him by science--

but that doesn't stop him from praising the invisible overlord for all that is good and enjoying all the goods brought to him by a slow and steady accumulation of facts by mere mortals with no help from any divine sources.

I do hope he wipes himself and washes his hands after using the restroom even though his all-loving invisible friend forgot to mention germ theory.

But it's cute...kind of...the way the world goes on being spherical while they insist that they keep winning in the headgame equivalent--"yessir the world is so flat...yessir...science is as much as a faith as religion...I win...the more I repeat it the more I change the reality in my head...so I win, I win, I win...."

By the way, do you think he knows that the President he denigrates is a Christian and thinks as vapidly as him? Do you think he knows that it's the anti-bush liberals who are goddless per his fellow believe Ann Coulter? Does he have a clue as to how scientists all over the world think this is one of the stupidest and most anti-science presidents of all time BECAUSE he sounds an awful lot like the OP?

Nah, I guess not--why think, when you've got full and satisfied brain feeling of "faith". Feel like you know it ALL without actually knowing anything of value or validity.

ChristineR

7th April 2007, 01:38 PM

Dude, you keep comparing faith in science to faith in religious dogma, but you completely miss the point. Science is all about finding errors. Science is all about disagreeing with the teacher or the preacher.

When you find something you think might be false you ask yourself questions like "What are the alternatives?" "What phenomena would we expect to find if A were true and B were not?" "Can I find those phenomena?" "Where and how shall I look?" "Are there other possible explanations that what would reconcile B with what I see?"

Scientists are praised up and down and left and right and center for overthrowing established beliefs! And they're praised almost as much for coming up with some kooky theory that might be an alternative and then proving their own theories false!

That doesn't happen much in fundamentalist circles. It can't happen. If you accept that the book of Genesis was dictated to God by Moses then if you look at the two creation stories in the beginning of Genesis you have to say Moses was just waxing poetic in the second story. There is no other possible explanation.

On the other hand, if you're a Bible scientist you can notice the linguistic and theological differences in the two stories and trace those divides all through the Pentateuch. You can split all the various repetitions and contradictions neatly in half and end up with two separate, older, stories, each consistent and non-contradictory in itself! And it's cool. It's really cool. It's far neater than those idiots who try to explain how Abraham could have had many sons and only one son at the same time!

And best of all, better than any of this coolness, science helps people. Using this sort of logic on things like "starve a cold, feed a fever" saves lives. It even brings us the Internet! Make a theory, determine a test, confirm the theory or change the theory, and then you have a solid theory do cool stuff. Make things faster and cheaper and safer.

In it's pure form, it's not all that profound. You do it every day. And the amazing thing is that it's actually a fairly new idea. In medieval times people just accepted that God caused plagues to punish them. They didn't think about the fleas, no one thought to try making a flea-free environment and seeing how people did. Which sucks. Your philosophy sucks so bad that you yourself don't even follow it, and you don't even think about the fact that you really don't follow it. That's how amazing and successful science is. You yourself make scientific tests everyday, and you take advantage of other's science and you accept without prejudice that science works! When the power goes out you don't pray for God to forgive you, you call the blasted electric company and complain!

So feel free to critique biology texts. Ask yourself "What would I see if this were false?" "What would we find in the world if it had been created 10,000 years ago?" Really ask yourself that. Quit going to AIG and reading little lists of things that are found that are consistent with the world being 10,000 years old. Lots of things are consistent with the world being 10,000 years old. To get the answer to this one you need to find some things that would be one way if the world is 10,000 years old and another way if life has been evolving for millions of years. In fact, you need lots of things. Millions of things! Make a list. It's not that hard, because people have already done it for you.

Then look at the data and compare. Count up the hits and the misses. And when you know what you're talking about and you are still a creationist, then come back here and explain it to me. Because so far, you can't. You ignored my request for comments on the 29+ evidences for macroevolution. You just linked to a bunch of lists of things that might be true if creation is true.

Oh, and I just prayed. I prayed for God to send me some sort of evidence of creationist science--not the usual unconvincing two paragraph screeds about Peking man.

Go for it, dude. God is waiting for you to change the world. Take this as a sign from an angel. (A homeless guy once told me I was an angel when I helped him out. He was serious too, he thought I was a supernatural being. He was high, but that's just a detail of the sort we religious folks ignore. Who knows, maybe you can be an angel and not realize it.) It's your calling to find the scientific, well reasoned evidence for creation--the stuff that must be out there because God loves us and wants us to get it right, the stuff that is not found on your three lame links.

If I made anyone giggle, that's good. But yes, I'm completely serious. I want God to answer my prayer, and I want g4macdad (isn't that a pimp name?) to save the whole ____ing world. God Bless, and AMEN.

Raphael

7th April 2007, 01:40 PM

Debating g4macdad may be a worthless activity, but I've found articulett's posts to be very ummm...articulate. (her usual high standard of course)

g4macdad

7th April 2007, 01:40 PM

Oh, I'm sure he knows enough to go to an evidence-based doctor should he break his arm rather than pray for healing...I'm sure he flies on evidence based airlines instead of astrally projecting...I'm sure he uses an evidence based computer rather than trying to send his inane thoughts via visualization, prayer, Gregorian chants or whatever the faithful are wasting their time with these days. I'm sure he's sold on the evidence based notions of the spherical earth which is not the center of the galaxy despite no mention of this salient fact by an omniscient anything...I'm sure everything he owns and values is brought to him by science--

but that doesn't stop him from praising the invisible overlord for all that is good and enjoying all the goods brought to him by a slow and steady accumulation of facts by mere mortals with no help from any divine sources.

I do hope he wipes himself and washes his hands after using the restroom even though his all-loving invisible friend forgot to mention germ theory.

But it's cute...kind of...the way the world goes on being spherical while they insist that they keep winning in the headgame equivalent--"yessir the world is so flat...yessir...science is as much as a faith as religion...I win...the more I repeat it the more I change the reality in my head...so I win, I win, I win...."

By the way, do you think he knows that the President he denigrates is a Christian and thinks as vapidly as him? Do you think he knows that it's the anti-bush liberals who are goddless per his fellow believe Ann Coulter? Does he have a clue as to how scientists all over the world think this is one of the stupidest and most anti-science presidents of all time BECAUSE he sounds an awful lot like the OP?

Nah, I guess not--why think, when you've got full and satisfied brain feeling of "faith". Feel like you know it ALL without actually knowing anything of value or validity.

See this shows your lack of understanding.

The president tells us he is a Christian conservative Republican. This of course is an oxymoron because the Bible says political factions are evil.

Ann Coulter calls John Edwards a faggot. John Edwards is very much a Christian. Thats the main reason she calls him a that. She is as far from a Christian as you can get. Mainly because she is a Republican.

But this further solidifies my point. You and all other Americans judge Christianity with no knowledge of the Bible.

You then criticize me for my lack of understanding of mainstream science, that we all learned in school?

<(((><

duggie

7th April 2007, 02:10 PM

Ah now we are getting somewhere. You see the people who are afraid of terrorists are not real Christians. If they knew the Bible they would not be afraid to die at all.

Now you are venturing into the realm of the fanatic. This is the thinking that motivates the terrorist and suicide bomber. The idea that heaven awaits the "real Muslim" or "real Christian" excuses the very worse deeds that humanity has ever perpetrated.

Wat Tyler

7th April 2007, 02:12 PM

[Downheartedly breaks own 'DNFTT' rule]

You then criticize me for my lack of understanding of mainstream science, that we all learned in school?

<(((><

Seems to me that you did not learn fundamental science in HS - you display a lamentable ignorance of the process by which Science operates.

I can actually forgive you your ignorance of how evolution works, because judging by the rest of the content that you post, the only thing that you were taught about evolution was a series of shallow, non-sensical arguments against it.

This is what happens when the peddlers of ignorance pass themselves off as 'science teachers'.

I do not doubt that your HS was Religiously-motivated.

Here's a thought - throughout human history, whenever and wherever 'theocratic' Government has reared its head, the society in question has stagnated and suffered under the chains of ignorance and bigotry.

Advances in the standard of living, life expectancy and overall quality of life have all had to wait until Control could be wrested from the hierophants, archbishops and imams.

And you and your ilk want to return us all to the 'halcyon days' of living under the iron rule of phallocratic aristocratic oligarchies, basing our society and culture on some self-contradictory Bronze-Age model developed for a pre-literate agrarian society.

If you want to live out your life in such conditions, then there are countries where you can experience the 'earthly paradise' that such a society affords its citizens - examples include Afghanistan, NW Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Sudan and Iran.

You'll not find me wanting to come with you though - and neither will I let you re-impose such a ghastly, backwards, hate-filled, warmongering dystopia on my home country.
It took us over three-hundred years of Purges, Witch-Hunts, Burnings, Torture and internecine warfare to get over that crap - and even then it was only after a hideously divisive fifteen-year long Civil War that divided brother from brother, son from mother etc etc, and which laid the foundations for the continual 'Troubles' in Ireland ever since that we finally saw sense and said "oh, sod this for a game of soldiers, let's all go get drunk together instead".

So thanks, but No thanks.

g4macdad

7th April 2007, 02:12 PM

Now you are venturing into the realm of the fanatic. This is the thinking that motivates the terrorist and suicide bomber. The idea that heaven awaits the "real Muslim" or "real Christian" excuses the very worse deeds that humanity has ever perpetrated.

No it's fear of terrorists. Like you are trying to intice right now.

<(((><

g4macdad

7th April 2007, 02:17 PM

[Downheartedly breaks own 'DNFTT' rule]

Seems to me that you did not learn fundamental science in HS - you display a lamentable ignorance of the process by which Science operates.

I can actually forgive you your ignorance of how evolution works, because judging by the rest of the content that you post, the only thing that you were taught about evolution was a series of shallow, non-sensical arguments against it.

This is what happens when the peddlers of ignorance pass themselves off as 'science teachers'.

I do not doubt that your HS was Religiously-motivated.

Here's a thought - throughout human history, whenever and wherever 'theocratic' Government has reared its head, the society in question has stagnated and suffered under the chains of ignorance and bigotry.

Advances in the standard of living, life expectancy and overall quality of life have all had to wait until Control could be wrested from the hierophants, archbishops and imams.

And you and your ilk want to return us all to the 'halcyon days' of living under the iron rule of phallocratic aristocratic oligarchies, basing our society and culture on some self-contradictory Bronze-Age model developed for a pre-literate agrarian society.

If you want to live out your life in such conditions, then there are countries where you can experience the 'earthly paradise' that such a society affords its citizens - examples include Afghanistan, NW Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Sudan and Iran.

You'll not find me wanting to come with you though - and neither will I let you re-impose such a ghastly, backwards, hate-filled, warmongering dystopia on my home country.
It took us over three-hundred years of Purges, Witch-Hunts, Burnings, Torture and internecine warfare to get over that crap - and even then it was only after a hideously divisive fifteen-year long Civil War that divided brother from brother, son from mother etc etc, and which laid the foundations for the continual 'Troubles' in Ireland ever since that we finally saw sense and saod "oh, sod this for a game of soldiers, let's get drunk instead".

So thanks, but No thanks.

It is only lack of knowledge of the Bible, like yours, that causes violence.

Anyone who knows anything at all about Jesus knows your ramblings are utter nonsense.

<(((><

duggie

7th April 2007, 02:22 PM

No it's fear of terrorists. Like you are trying to intice right now.

<(((><

In addition to making no sense, now you're making up words. Please explain yourself in plain English.

g4macdad

7th April 2007, 02:24 PM

articulett

7th April 2007, 02:27 PM

...the christian FAVORITE logical fallacy-- "the no true scotsman" fallacy in stunning display.

Step right up teachers, and download the examples here.

In the world of non-theists, all people who consider themselves Christians are Christians. We don't determine which sect gets to describe who is and isn't a Christian. Hitler considered himself a Christian. Therefore, he was. Since the Christians don't agree on what a Christian is and their book leaves a lot of room for interpretation, we'll have to presume that all the people who call themselves Christian are Christian until there is some more validating scientific test. Belief is not yet a measurable quality unless you do something you normally wouldn't do for your belief--like embarrass yourself on a skeptics forum or show a willingness to kill your kid because an invisible entity demanded that you do so.

g4macdad

7th April 2007, 02:32 PM

articulett

7th April 2007, 02:35 PM

[QUOTE=g4macdad;2499540]It is people who believe in nothing at all that you should be scared of. We are just animals according to them. In fact animals in the wild commit senseless acts of violence all the time. And that is all we are according to evolutionists. So it should be expected right? I will answer for what I do. Violence is not tolerated. This becomes easier with no fear. You however believe when you die, thats the end. So you must have an overwhelming fear of death.

That my friends is Irony

<(((><[/QUOTE

Animals don't kill for gods and don't start wars. My dog hasn't killed a single person or animal. And god commands a lot of violence in your special book you know. And there have been no wars in the name of rationality. It makes sense to base your belief on evidence. It's allegiance to ideals and faith in "leaders, prophets, gurus" etc. that are at the heart of all wars--us vs. them thinking.

Should you ever go and discover the facts, you may wish to enlighten who ever dumped this vomit into your head. It doesn't mean anything. It's doublespeak. It's a lie to prop up a delusion that you need to believe a certain way to do good. Monkeys will risk their lives to save another monkey's life--they have no gods, you twit. Morality evolves. Religion hijacks it with claims that it has the key to making sure you aren't tortured for eternity--with the added incentive of eternal bliss if you are faithful and get others to believe that a certain belief is the truth above all other "truths".

You know what the biggest predictor of whether someone will or won't become violent is--not what they believe--but whether they have a Y chromosome! It's genetic. Most men are not violent, but most violent people are men. It seems to have something to do with testosterone...not what people believe in. Imagine that.

Lonewulf

7th April 2007, 02:36 PM

Ah now we are getting somewhere. You see the people who are afraid of terrorists are not real Christians. If they knew the Bible they would not be afraid to die at all.

These are mainstream Americans, just like you, who really believe in nothing. Thats why they are so afraid. I don't blame them! I would be too.

16Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you? 17If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple.

<(((><

So, you mean, you'd allow me to wipe you off the face of the world because you'd just go to heaven? You'd be cool with this?

...

Hmm, I'm thinking...

Nah, not worth the effort.

Beleth

7th April 2007, 02:40 PM

You and all other Americans judge Christianity with no knowledge of the Bible.
All other Americans? You do not know that, therefore you cannot believe that, and yet you said it, and that makes you a liar.

Most American Christians have never read the Bible, much less studied textual criticism of it. Have you?

You then criticize me for my lack of understanding of mainstream science, that we all learned in school?We criticize you because of two reasons, hypocrite: you revel in your lack of understanding of science; and you project mainstream America's below-passing understanding of the Bible onto us, many of whom not only have read the entire Bible, but have read and understood some of the textual criticism of it.

You expect to come in here and baffle us with BS that is potentially new to the average American, but is in fact stuff we have seen over and over again for years. Your type is a dime a dozen here. In a month you will be gone from here, and in two months another person just like you will show up and subject themselves to exactly the same self-abuse you are subjecting yourself to now.

As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be,
Trolls without end,
amen,
amen.

g4macdad

7th April 2007, 02:47 PM

duggie

7th April 2007, 02:48 PM

It is people who believe in nothing at all that you should be scared of. We are just animals according to them. In fact animals in the wild commit senseless acts of violence all the time. And that is all we are according to evolutionists. So it should be expected right? I will answer for what I do. Violence is not tolerated. This becomes easier with no fear. You however believe when you die, thats the end. So you must have an overwhelming fear of death.

That my friends is Irony

<(((><

It most certainly is ironic. You claim that anyone who believes that: "when you die, thats the end" must have "an overwhelming fear of death". Not true, by the way, speaking for myself, at least.

It logically follows, however, that anyone who makes a claim such as yours, must themselves have an overwhelming fear of death.

That you have chosen to "take Pascals wager", is understandable, given that you are obviously an extremely fearful person, but don't expect the glaring fallacy of your position to go unchallenged in this forum.

delphi_ote

7th April 2007, 02:50 PM

As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be,
Trolls without end,
amen,
amen.
RAMEN
:xmasfsm

Hindmost

7th April 2007, 02:55 PM

Glenn thank you for your respectful response. If you just give the Bible the same chance as any other Belief system today. I promise the answer to that is in there. God showed Israel many miracles after he delivered them from Egypt. But it didn't do any good. They still turned from him. I guess it's human nature. This is why it says in the Bible:

Matthew 12 :38

38Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, "Teacher, we want to see a miraculous sign from you."
39He answered, "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

<(((><

I was hoping for a more comprehensive response. To me, faith has to have an origin. Somewhere in time, God had to do something to make it known he was involved in lives on earth. But that all seemed to stop and I am not of the Jesus in a grilled cheese sandwich crowd.

I will list why I lost faith over the years and would ask why this doesn't affect you. (this is the short list)

Reading the bible:

One is allowed to stone a kid to death
One is allowed to own slaves as long as they are from another tribe
One is allowed sell their daughter into slavery
Eye for an eye
Lott willing to give his daughters to an angry mob

Other issues:

The inquisition
Churches hiding their past
Creating a world that has tsunamis, earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes that needlessly kill innocent people. That would be like me taking a dropping a cannonball in my fish tank every now and then just to keep the fish on their fins.
Why does Chrisitanity believe heaven is reserved for them alone and is willing to throw 2/3rds of the population into hell.
Why did god appear to make the earth 4.5 billion years old and the universe appear to be 14 billion years old and not put it in the bible?
Why is nature so violent? All species seem to need to compete for the right to mate…this speaks to evolution and not creation. My fishbowl is benevolent.

glenn

g4macdad

7th April 2007, 02:56 PM

At this point even I am ready for the kitty pics. =P

<(((><

articulett

7th April 2007, 02:58 PM

ChristineR

7th April 2007, 02:59 PM

:)

Uh-oh...that's adult content. If it were kittens, that would be different. :)

duggie

7th April 2007, 03:00 PM

Amen,

Kitties 1

God Botherers 0
Evolutionists 0

Beleth

7th April 2007, 03:00 PM

Most American Christians have never read the Bible, much less studied textual criticism of it. Have you?
At this point even I am ready for the kitty pics. =P
Evasion noted.

I thought as much.

articulett

7th April 2007, 03:08 PM

Uh-oh...that's adult content. If it were kittens, that would be different. :)

No kitties...

A mouse?

g4macdad

7th April 2007, 03:10 PM

One is allowed to stone a kid to death
One is allowed to own slaves as long as they are from another tribe
One is allowed sell their daughter into slavery
Eye for an eye
Lott willing to give his daughters to an angry mob

Glenn, these things are what Jewish believe. These things were before the Christ came. Here is what Jesus said:

8"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'[g] 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

Rent the movie "The Gospel Of John" This is the Book of John word for word , not a cheesy hollywood adaptation.

If you like peace and love, Christ is for you. It also explains why God can't just tell us everything. It would be like explaining adult life to a newborn.

I hate really long boring posts so I'll shhhh for now.

<(((><

g4macdad

7th April 2007, 03:11 PM

Amen,

Kitties 1

God Botherers 0
Evolutionists 0

Woot! Duggie

<(((><

articulett

7th April 2007, 03:13 PM

a dinosaur?

articulett

7th April 2007, 03:15 PM

maybe a squid...

articulett

7th April 2007, 03:16 PM

wait...I do have a kitty pic.!

articulett

7th April 2007, 03:17 PM

I guess this could count as a kitty pic. too...

Wavicle

7th April 2007, 03:18 PM

It is people who believe in nothing at all that you should be scared of. We are just animals according to them. In fact animals in the wild commit senseless acts of violence all the time. And that is all we are according to evolutionists. So it should be expected right?

How many senseless acts of violence does the average deer commit? It is most definitely an animal, and in the wild. So, it is expected that it will go around doing wicked things, right? Why do hunters even go into the woods knowing that there are more deer than they have bullets, and the deer will do nothing but senseless acts of violence? I don't understand!

That my friends is Irony

No the real irony is that atheists, who (supposedly according to you) have no moral restraint, are underrepresented in the prison population. Why do you suppose that is?

Wavicle

7th April 2007, 03:19 PM

You see the people who are afraid of terrorists are not real Christians.

Do real Christians put sugar in their tea? I've always wondered about that.

duggie

7th April 2007, 03:32 PM

Reading the bible:

One is allowed to stone a kid to death
One is allowed to own slaves as long as they are from another tribe
One is allowed sell their daughter into slavery
Eye for an eye
Lott willing to give his daughters to an angry mob

Glenn, these things are what Jewish believe. These things were before the Christ came.

So when you say "If you want to expand beyond that you'll have to actually Read The Bible." you mean "Read the Bible but ignore all the barbaric stuff, we blame the Jews for that." I still am a little confused about this "inerrant truth of the Bible" claim.

Beleth

7th April 2007, 03:42 PM

Glenn, these things are what Jewish believe. These things were before the Christ came. Here is what Jesus said:
Uh huh.

Here is what else Jesus said:
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

fuelair

7th April 2007, 03:43 PM

Now I'm getting through! =P

<(((><If by getting through you mean you agree with SimonDs' post above this quote - no you had gotten through on that long before - though his left out stained, unwiped as the correct modifiers. <+++<.

Now be a polite little fellow and go chow down on Jeebus!!

articulett

7th April 2007, 04:05 PM

Hasn't the fundie got a rapture to prepare for--

Tomorrow could be the big day...and one wouldn't want to spend one's last day before eternal bliss preaching to heathens would one? Aren't they supposed to gather together and pray?

duggie

7th April 2007, 04:13 PM

Glenn, these things are what Jewish believe. These things were before the Christ came.

The reply I wish I'd said:

Silly me. I thought it was your f.ucking book.

I less than three logic

7th April 2007, 04:15 PM

Hindmost

7th April 2007, 04:19 PM

Glenn, these things are what Jewish believe. These things were before the Christ came. Here is what Jesus said:

8"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'[g] 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

Rent the movie "The Gospel Of John" This is the Book of John word for word , not a cheesy hollywood adaptation.

If you like peace and love, Christ is for you. It also explains why God can't just tell us everything. It would be like explaining adult life to a newborn.

I hate really long boring posts so I'll shhhh for now.

<(((><

Christianity did not abandon the old testament however...I have heard it quoted often in church. (many years ago) Ugly interpretations of such things were used to justify slavery in the US and elsewhere. I believe it is still considered the word of God in Christian churches. If the new testament is only to be followed, this implies that God makes mistakes and that is not supposed to be possible. Again, this type of thing shook the Christian faith out of me. (I was also shaken terribly by Mormons that came to my house and said they were sending my Grandmother to hell because she wasn't Mormon. She was the ultimate Grandma...baked brownies, knitted, loved to have family around, attended church every sunday. Everyone called her Grandma. And they were sending her to hell. Very disturbing.)

glenn

Moochie

7th April 2007, 04:24 PM

<snipped -- for brevity>

I hate really long boring posts so I'll shhhh for now.

<(((><

That you "hate really long boring posts" shows clearly that you have the mentality of a teen with ADHD. Perhaps you are a teen with ADHD.

M.

g4macdad

7th April 2007, 05:47 PM

Christianity did not abandon the old testament however...I have heard it quoted often in church. (many years ago) Ugly interpretations of such things were used to justify slavery in the US and elsewhere. I believe it is still considered the word of God in Christian churches. If the new testament is only to be followed, this implies that God makes mistakes and that is not supposed to be possible. Again, this type of thing shook the Christian faith out of me. (I was also shaken terribly by Mormons that came to my house and said they were sending my Grandmother to hell because she wasn't Mormon. She was the ultimate Grandma...baked brownies, knitted, loved to have family around, attended church every sunday. Everyone called her Grandma. And they were sending her to hell. Very disturbing.)

glenn

What's wrong with reading it on your own? God didn't make a mistake, he always planned to later send his son to save us all. Jesus interprets the Old Testament for us.

Glenn you seem like a decent person. The guys here sound much worse than the worse Mormon I have ever met. :jaw-dropp

The Bible says many false prophets have gone out into the world.

I hope you find peace in Our King and Saviour Jesus.

My family needs me more than this forum. I am a little disappointed by what I found here though.

I love you all. I will pray for you.

ONE TRUTH

Freedom from Death

Not of This World

biblegateway.com

<(((><

Hindmost

7th April 2007, 06:38 PM

What's wrong with reading it on your own?

Glenn you seem like a decent person. The guys here sound much worse than the worse Mormon I have ever met. :jaw-dropp

The Bible says many false prophets have gone out into the world.

I hope you find peace in Our King and Saviour Jesus.

My family needs me more than this forum. I am a little disappointed by what I found here though.

I love you all. I will pray for you.

ONE TRUTH

Freedom from Death

Not of This World

biblegateway.com

<(((><

It is reading and studying on my own that caused me to doubt God's existance because I could not find anyone to answer my doubts--I can never seem to get answers to the questions I wrote here. If you read and analyze what I wrote, so much of what happens on this planet does not make sense from a religious viewpoint. Therefore, until I see evidence of a benevolent God, I will choose not to believe. (I think the Freedom from Death aspect is what made Christianity so popular.)

Thanks for your comments.

glenn

This forum is full of my friends...and I am very happy to have met and established longterm friendships with them.

slyjoe

7th April 2007, 06:50 PM

OK

More seriously. You really solidify the point of this post Z.

If I go and read all your "scientific" evidence. I will come to the same conclusion as you do when you read the Bible. Because I will be looking for all the errors and inconsistencies. Science is no less a religion as any other. At some point after you hear enough evidence, you go "I believe". I was hoping being the skeptics you claim to be, this would be easy to figure out. What I have found out is, this whole skeptic thing is bogus from the get go. Most of you sound like Neo-con zealots to me.

<(((><

Could you give us an error you find in science today? I'm sure the scientists would be interested in correcting it. Likewise, if I find an error in the Bible, who do I ask to correct it?

fuelair

7th April 2007, 08:09 PM

Reading the bible:

One is allowed to stone a kid to death
One is allowed to own slaves as long as they are from another tribe
One is allowed sell their daughter into slavery
Eye for an eye
Lott willing to give his daughters to an angry mob

So when you say "If you want to expand beyond that you'll have to actually Read The Bible." you mean "Read the Bible but ignore all the barbaric stuff, we blame the Jews for that." I still am a little confused about this "inerrant truth of the Bible" claim.

And, if you are a pissed off old prophet, Dog will send a bear to kill the kids for you (not that there is anything wrong with that).:D

articulett

7th April 2007, 09:23 PM

I love you all. I will pray for you.

<(((><

okie dokie--and we will think for you.

BillyJoe

7th April 2007, 10:44 PM

It is people who believe in nothing at all that you should be scared of. We are just animals according to them. In fact animals in the wild commit senseless acts of violence all the time. And that is all we are according to evolutionists. So it should be expected right?

<(((><

Ah, I see, you don't LIKE the truth. Well, get over it. Lions do kill deer for supper. Wasps do lay their eggs in caterpillars and the larvae that hatch do eat the caterpillars alive from the inside out. Nature doesn't care. These are the facts. Deal with it.

HOWEVER....

And this is the good part....
WE DO NOT HAVE TO FOLLOW THE RULES!

Evolution "wants" us to procreate and produce abundant offspring so that our genes will continue on to the next generation. But do we? No! We can tell those genes to go to hell. We have manufactured condoms and pills so that we do not have to follow the rules. We don't have to play along with what our genes "want" us to do.

But that doesn't mean we deny the facts of evolution.

<+++<

BillyJoe

7th April 2007, 11:25 PM

What's wrong with reading it on your own? God didn't make a mistake, he always planned to later send his son to save us all. Jesus interprets the Old Testament for us.

You have still not tackled this basic reason I gave for rejecting the bible.
Here it is again...

In Relgion, you start with a conclusion and gather facts to support your conclusion.
In science, you start with facts and look for a conclusion that fits the facts.
In Religion the conclusion never changes, because contradictory facts are ignored.
In science, conclusions are always changing to fit new facts that need to be accounted for.

Considering this...
I have faith that science is likely to get us gradually closer to the truth.
I have no faith that religion already has the truth.
For a start, there is more than one religion, so at least one must be wrong.

Glenn you seem like a decent person. The guys here sound much worse than the worse Mormon I have ever met.

Look, we're all decent people really.

We just get a bit frustrated when we hit our heads against a brick wall. As I pointed out before, my first post was a considered reply which took me some time to compose. It was totally ignored. I have given you three further opportunities to respond which you have ignored or evaded. You were treated the way you were out of sheer frustration. Can you understand that?

You got this response because you refused to engage in dialogue.
Let's face it, you came here to preach.
The problem for you is that we refused to be lambs.

My family needs me more than this forum. I am a little disappointed by what I found here though.

Really, you got the reaction you deserved.
Come here if you want to engage in dialogue, not if you want to preach.
If you came to show an interest in the of point of view of the other posters here, to get into their hearts and minds if you will, it would have been different. But you have made no attempt to do this. Because you came to preach.

I hope you find peace in Our King and Saviour Jesus....I love you all. I will pray for you....ONE TRUTH....Freedom from Death...Not of This World...biblegateway.com

I mean really. What did you expect? We're all going to kneel down and start praying. Because you say so. Frankly, I don't want your love. Because it's worth nothing in this context. I want your understanding. You have made no attempt to understand what I or anyone else has said here. Because you came to preach. So put your love back in your back pocket, it's much too easy.

LostAngeles

8th April 2007, 12:10 AM

maybe a squid...

... That's the funniest thing I've seen all day.

UnrepentantSinner

8th April 2007, 09:27 AM

I mean he's pure troll, just having a jape. I'm utterly unconvinced he's posted anything that isn't BS from the very start.

Of course I'm keeping Poe's law in mind, but that's just the impression I'm getting.

In case any of you missed it the 2nd time.

~enigma~

8th April 2007, 09:50 AM

In case any of you missed it the 2nd time.
I already said this is thehighwaymanq..real name Matty...a 13 year old nutcase from the Loose Change forum. Unfortunately, he actually believes the crap he is posting. He also believes a bunch of other wooish stuff.

delphi_ote

8th April 2007, 11:13 AM

... That's the funniest thing I've seen all day.
I guess you haven't walked by a mirror yet, then.

OH!

P.S.
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/delphi_ote/1168705855-1167965991862.jpg

Hindmost

8th April 2007, 12:50 PM

Well, I guess there is not much more to add to this thread. Another failed attempt to engage a religious person in a thinking discussion. I would really like to get answers to real questions--but that just doesn't seem to be part of religious education. It does make me think what type of training/indoctrination religious leaders get...seems no questions allowed.

This just confirms what I feel about religion: Don't think, don't question, just believe. Critical thinking not allowed or the masses may find out that we are fooling them.

Thousands of years wasted.

glenn

6355

fuelair

8th April 2007, 12:57 PM

g4macdad+g 4 mac daddy. great name for an xtian apologist - big pimp.

pimpin' jebus, pimpin' dog, sellin' their services to make bling. chill mofo!!

Skeptic Ginger

8th April 2007, 02:00 PM

fuelair

8th April 2007, 02:06 PM

Look I have no idea what Pascal's wager is.

My common sense says if you show me a piece of paper that backs what your faith has you to believe. I then show you a piece of paper that backs what I believe. Who has the "FACTS" at this point?

I know you are smarter than this. So don' t use this in your argument.

<(((><

The only time there is any chance of me believing you when you make a statement is when you say "I have no idea", "I don't know", or "I was wrong - but I was lying anyway."

<+++< <+++< <+++< <+++<

Skeptic Ginger

8th April 2007, 02:14 PM

Oh that's what those +++ fish are.
<+))>< ... <+))+< ... <+++<
That's my dead fish evolving over time. :)

~enigma~

8th April 2007, 02:40 PM

In honor of Easter. I will not rise but move laterally :)

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/5517/111el1.jpg

articulett

8th April 2007, 04:47 PM

I love that lioness telling the lion off, artic. (Ooops, not supposed to project human emotions onto animals.) The monkey's probably sizing up that kitten for a snack.

Look at the amphibifishy I made: <;:;><
Yipee!

I like the amphibifishy! And I think the emotions in the lions are exactly what it looks like too--

Look, my stepmom sent me this via e-mail:

THE GREATEST MAN IN HISTORY
Jesus had no servants, yet they called Him Master.
Had no degree, yet they called Him Teacher.
Had no medicines, yet they called Him Healer.
He had no army, yet kings feared Him.
He won no military battles, yet He conquered the world.
He committed no crime, yet they crucified Him.
He was buried in a tomb, yet He lives today.
I feel honored to serve such a Leader.

IN CHEMISTRY, HE TURNED WATER TO WINE.
IN BIOLOGY, HE WAS BORN WITHOUT HUMAN CONCEPTION.
IN PHYSICS, HE DISPROVED THE LAW OF GRAVITY WHEN HE ASCENDED INTO HEAVEN.
IN ECONOMICS, HE DISPROVED THE LAW OF DIMINISHING RETURN BY FEEDING
5000 PEOPLE WITH TWO FISHES & 5 LOAVES OF BREAD;
IN MEDICINE, HE CURED THE SICK AND THE BLIND WITHOUT ADMINISTERING A SINGLE DOSE OF DRUGS.
IN HISTORY, HE IS THE BEGINNING AND THE END.
IN GOVERNMENT, HE SAID THAT HE SHALL BE CALLED WONDERFUL COUNSELOR,
PRINCE OF PEACE.
IN RELIGION, HE SAID NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH HIM.

JOIN ME AND LET'S CELEBRATE HIM; HE IS WORTHY.

THE EYES BEHOLDING THIS MESSAGE SHALL NOT BEHOLD EVIL. THE HAND THAT WILL SEND THIS MESSAGE TO OTHERS SHALL NOT LABOR IN VAIN, AND THE MOUTH SAYING AMEN TO THIS PRAYER SHALL SMILE FOREVER.
REMAIN IN GOD AND SEEK HIS FACE ALWAYS. IN GOD I'VE FOUND EVERYTHING!
AMEN
HE IS RISEN!!!!
HAPPY EASTER

Just thought I'd share the joy (barf).

So people believe all this crap on hearsay and they have trouble believing evolution despite mountains of evidence? So, so, saaaad....

BillyJoe

8th April 2007, 05:15 PM

<+++< <+++< <+++< <+++<

Hey, repeating it three times doesn't make them yours. Plagiarist! :D

><)))>.......>+))>....... >++)>.......>+++>....... >+++>....... \-l-/.......-........

BillyJoe

8th April 2007, 05:27 PM

<;:;><

Very good!

><)))>......><;))>......><;:)>......><;:;>......><;:;:)

articulett

8th April 2007, 05:30 PM

Hey, repeating it three times doesn't make them yours. Plagiarist! :D

><)))>.......>+))>....... >++)>.......>+++>....... >+++>....... \-l-/.......-........

oooh, I like it... it has an ashes to ashes dust to dust feel with it. I saw a video somewhere on the net that was sped way up--it was a mouse dying, then rotting, then fungi and microbes grew on it and dismantled it and then little springs of plant popped up and pushed the piece of skull left over to the side. It was cool.

delphi_ote

8th April 2007, 06:00 PM

Very good!

><)))>......><;))>......><;:)>......><;:;>......><;:;:)
><|:|:)
..././

(|:|=:)
././

......:)
(|:|//
./..\

.......:)
/(|:|//
../..\

:mdance:

.\:)/
...|
../ \

8th April 2007, 06:05 PM

><|:|:)
..././

(|:|=:)
././

......:)
(|:|//
./..\

.......:)
/(|:|//
../..\

:mdance:

.\:)/
...|
../ \

But... but... don't you SEE? Isn't it OBVIOUS that :mdance: didn't belong to the earlier series, and that
.\:)/
...|
../ \ Couldn't possibly come from :mdance:???

Ex-drone

8th April 2007, 06:18 PM

Very good!

><)))>......><;))>......><;:)>......><;:;>......><;:;:)

I'm waiting for the Creationist post that there are obviously four transitional gaps here and that all these evolvicons are obviously members of the same "kind".

BillyJoe

8th April 2007, 08:26 PM

....yeah, the more transitional forms, the more transitional gaps!

Lonewulf

8th April 2007, 11:22 PM

I guess you haven't walked by a mirror yet, then.

OH!

P.S.
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/delphi_ote/1168705855-1167965991862.jpg

This is the cutest thing I've ever seen on this forum yet.

...

That cat reminds me of my cat, Cujo. I wish he was here still. :(

delphi_ote

9th April 2007, 06:33 AM

This is the cutest thing I've ever seen on this forum yet.

...

That cat reminds me of my cat, Cujo. I wish he was here still. :(
That picture is pretty much the cutest thing ever. Sorry about Cujo. :(

aggle-rithm

9th April 2007, 06:53 AM

Jesus interprets the Old Testament for us.

I don't suppose you can point to the part of the New Testament that said we still had to hate homosexuals, but it's OK to eat pork?

Moochie

9th April 2007, 11:43 AM

Really, you are an amazingly creative bunch. :)

M.

Lonewulf

9th April 2007, 12:18 PM

That picture is pretty much the cutest thing ever. Sorry about Cujo. :(

Thanks for the condolensces.

Eh, he had a good life. He had his way when he wanted it, but he was a good cat. He only really whined when he wanted out; he was patient when food was involved, but hated being kept inside. That's what did him in, eventually, but c'est la vie. He was friendly to everyone he came across, always greeting them, whether they were male or female. He didn't really have any problems with other people, and only really had problems with other male cats that liked to boss him around.

I shouldn't focus on his disappearance and his few last moments. I should focus on the many many years of his happy life. :)

Maybe I should throw a party to celebrate it sometime. Heh.

Moochie

9th April 2007, 01:28 PM

Thanks for the condolensces.

Eh, he had a good life. He had his way when he wanted it, but he was a good cat. He only really whined when he wanted out; he was patient when food was involved, but hated being kept inside. That's what did him in, eventually, but c'est la vie. He was friendly to everyone he came across, always greeting them, whether they were male or female. He didn't really have any problems with other people, and only really had problems with other male cats that liked to boss him around.

I shouldn't focus on his disappearance and his few last moments. I should focus on the many many years of his happy life. :)

Maybe I should throw a party to celebrate it sometime. Heh.

My condolences, too. If Cujo was to you what our kitty is to us, it would be a very large loss.

I think a party is an excellent idea.

Regards,

M.

LostAngeles

9th April 2007, 01:57 PM

My condolences, too. If Cujo was to you what our kitty is to us, it would be a very large loss.

I think a party is an excellent idea.

Regards,

M.

:hug2 for Lonewulf

I lost a very good kitty months ago too. He was 17, diabetic, enlarged heart and liver, but he made it to 17. It hurts, but I prefer to remember that he did live a very good life, even with his condition.

Also, delphi, I'm tellin' Mom!

ChristineR

9th April 2007, 02:14 PM

I don't suppose you can point to the part of the New Testament that said we still had to hate homosexuals, but it's OK to eat pork?

Actually, you can, sort of. In the Book of Acts Peter has a vision that tells him it's okay to eat pork, and in the letters of Paul, he condemns homosexuality.

From a critical standpoint, you have to understand that there was conflict among early Christians about these points. The first Christians were Jews, and would not eat pork, but Jews have no problem with Gentiles eating pork. So there was debate about whether Gentiles Christians would be allowed to eat pork, and (most importantly) whether they would be forced to submit to circumcision. The NT contradicts itself on Jewish law in general because early Christians contradicted themselves.

Paul took the standpoint that Christians could do anything, that it was not the action that counted, but the mental attitude. He then spent the rest of his life trying to explain to Christians why wild sex orgies and gay marriage made for bad mental attitudes. So he had to back down on his teaching--another contradiction.

The vision of Peter was probably invented to explain to the Gentile Christians why they could still eat pork after their conversion. It's unlikely that the real Peter ever tolerated pork.

BillyJoe

9th April 2007, 02:53 PM

Eh, he had a good life. He had his way when he wanted it, but he was a good cat. He only really whined when he wanted out; he was patient when food was involved, but hated being kept inside. That's what did him in, eventually, but c'est la vie. He was friendly to everyone he came across, always greeting them, whether they were male or female. He didn't really have any problems with other people, and only really had problems with other male cats that liked to boss him around.

Ian Anderson (from Jethro Tull) must have had a cat just like yours:
Click if you want to read...

My old black cat passed away this morning
He never knew what a hard day was.
Woke up late and danced on tin roofs.
If questioned “Why?” – answered, “Just because.”

He never spoke much, preferring silence:
eight lost lives was all he had.
Occasionally sneaked some Sunday dinner.
He wasn’t good and he wasn’t bad.

My old black cat wasn’t much of a looker.
You could pass him by – just a quiet shadow.
Got pushed around by all the other little guys.
Didn’t seem to mind much – just the way life goes.

Padded about in furry slippers.
Didn’t make any special friends.
He played it cool with wide-eyed innocence,
Receiving gladly what the good Lord sends.

Forgot to give his Christmas present.
Black cat collar, nice and new.
Thought he’d make it through to New Year.
I guess this song will have to do.

My old black cat……….
Old black cat…………

edit: oops, forgot about the "good lord" bit!

delphi_ote

9th April 2007, 08:22 PM

Also, delphi, I'm tellin' Mom!
****. Jeff's going to bust through my wall now and kill me, isn't he?

LostAngeles

9th April 2007, 10:26 PM

****. Jeff's going to bust through my wall now and kill me, isn't he?

OH YEAH!

Lonewulf

9th April 2007, 10:38 PM

OH YEAH!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDAbcBTNlLI

OH YEAH!

Skeptic Ginger

9th April 2007, 11:15 PM

I don't suppose you can point to the part of the New Testament that said we still had to hate homosexuals, but it's OK to eat pork?http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/2/24/180px-Carkin-hesus.jpg

wolfgirl

10th April 2007, 03:16 PM

So, did anyone catch Matsuzaka's first start against KC the other day? Pretty impressive, although it was only the Royals. I am looking forward to his pitch selection against a team with a better lineup.Hey, I resent that Royals comment! The Royals are a team on the very edge of greatness! They are on the upswing! This is going to be their year! You'll see, they'll...ah, f&*% it, I don't have the energy anymore...

Skeptic Guy

10th April 2007, 03:48 PM

wolfgirl

10th April 2007, 03:50 PM

My common sense says if you show me a piece of paper that backs what your faith has you to believe. I then show you a piece of paper that backs what I believe. Who has the "FACTS" at this point?To some extent, you are correct. We do take our beliefs on "faith."

However, your "piece of paper" is a book written over two thousand years ago by people with very little understanding of the world and how it works. It has been proven to be inaccurate in many ways. It has never been revised to reflect newer ideas or things that have been learned since. It has stagnated. It has fairy-tale elements like talking serpents and men living inside of whales.

My "piece of paper" is actually a whole body of scientific work that has been studied and improved upon for hundreds of years by some of the greatest human minds in history. It reflects observations of phenomena and then attempts to explain them that can be reproduced and studied. It has been documented, tested, peer-reviewed and minutely investigated. It has been revised and updated when necessary. And it has the advantage of two thousand years of compounded knowledge, as well as the modern technical advancements which have allowed so much more to be known than was possible two thousand years previously.

So yes, I suppose I take my beliefs on "faith" to a certain extent. But at least that "faith" is based upon knowledge and study rather than just belief in an old book. I might just as well profess "faith" in the Iliad. And it's a better read.

10th April 2007, 03:53 PM

wolfgirl, I have to say I love your avatar... reminds me so much of my little ones!

~Waco White Wolf Tohausen

BillyJoe

10th April 2007, 10:29 PM

To some extent, you are correct. We do take our beliefs on "faith."

However, your "piece of paper" is a book written over two thousand years ago by people with very little understanding of the world and how it works. It has been proven to be inaccurate in many ways. It has never been revised to reflect newer ideas or things that have been learned since. It has stagnated. It has fairy-tale elements like talking serpents and men living inside of whales.

My "piece of paper" is actually a whole body of scientific work that has been studied and improved upon for hundreds of years by some of the greatest human minds in history. It reflects observations of phenomena and then attempts to explain them that can be reproduced and studied. It has been documented, tested, peer-reviewed and minutely investigated. It has been revised and updated when necessary. And it has the advantage of two thousand years of compounded knowledge, as well as the modern technical advancements which have allowed so much more to be known than was possible two thousand years previously.

So yes, I suppose I take my beliefs on "faith" to a certain extent. But at least that "faith" is based upon knowledge and study rather than just belief in an old book. I might just as well profess "faith" in the Iliad. And it's a better read.Exactly. And very well done.

But I tried this out on him, in abbreviated form, on page one but he ignored it and then continued to ignore it when I drew his attention to it asveral times. Now he is not even here to ignore it. He said goodbye a page or so ago. Sorry. Hope some lurker who needs it catches it.

BJ

delphi_ote

10th April 2007, 10:59 PM

I might just as well profess "faith" in the Iliad. And it's a better read.
Hey, I happen to like my classics with a little post-apocalyptic drunken incest (http://www.thebricktestament.com/genesis/the_seduction_of_lot/gn19_30.html)! There's some steamy stuff in The Iliad, but beat that!

Cactus Wren

12th April 2007, 11:50 PM

I've always liked that story about Lot and his daughters. It has such a wonderfully contemporary feel to it, like the testimony of a rapist. See, it wasn't his fault, because he was drunk. Too drunk to know what was going on, too drunk even to recognize his own daughter -- passed-out drunk -- but still able to get it up and consummate the deed. So it wasn't his fault. And besides it was their fault, they wanted it, they were dying for it, the little sluts.

delphi_ote

13th April 2007, 12:16 AM

Too drunk to know what was going on, too drunk even to recognize his own daughter -- passed-out drunk -- but still able to get it up and consummate the deed.
And impregnate both of them on the first try. That Lot must've been one fertile son of a Hebrew!
And besides it was their fault, they wanted it, they were dying for it, the little sluts.
Well, I imagine Lot's daughters' view of sexuality was probably a little screwed up. Remember, their father did offer to have all the males in the city did have their way (http://www.thebricktestament.com/genesis/sodom_and_gomorrah/gn19_01.html) with the poor girls.

Lonewulf

13th April 2007, 12:17 AM

plumjam

25th August 2007, 03:10 PM

Some of us were believers before we became educated.

I see. So you were spoon-fed one faith-based belief system and you swallowed it. And then you were spoon-fed another faith-based belief system and swallowed that.

Carnegiea

25th August 2007, 03:17 PM

I see. So you were spoon-fed one faith-based belief system and you swallowed it. And then you were spoon-fed another faith-based belief system and swallowed that.

Right on, brah! Monkeys didn't make no universe!

jsfisher

25th August 2007, 03:23 PM

I see. So you were spoon-fed one faith-based belief system and you swallowed it. And then you were spoon-fed another faith-based belief system and swallowed that.

You got the first part right. I prefer to think in terms of projectile vomiting for the second part, though.

BillyJoe

25th August 2007, 04:27 PM

I see. So you were spoon-fed one faith-based belief system and you swallowed it. And then you were spoon-fed another faith-based belief system and swallowed that.

You are right on....for some people!
However, some of us learned the lesson the first time round.

It's still easy to fall back into the trap though.

BillyJoe

25th August 2007, 04:29 PM

There you are, three replies. You should be proud.

Skeptic Ginger

25th August 2007, 04:55 PM

I see. So you were spoon-fed one faith-based belief system and you swallowed it. And then you were spoon-fed another faith-based belief system and swallowed that.
:id:

Slimething

25th August 2007, 11:41 PM

I see. So you were spoon-fed one faith-based belief system and you swallowed it. And then you were spoon-fed another faith-based belief system and swallowed that.

Does this qualify as a Stundie? It really shoud. :eek:

fortuneteller

21st September 2007, 03:01 PM

with a little help

BillyJoe

23rd September 2007, 05:21 AM

the third quarter of it

Lonewulf

23rd September 2007, 05:32 AM

Should I comment at this point? Is there even anything TO comment on at this point?

BillyJoe

23rd September 2007, 07:38 AM

no point

bokonon

23rd September 2007, 08:26 AM

God didn't make a mistake, he always planned to later send his son to save us all.
So why didn't he just skip all the drama -- raining fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, raining rain on Noah's neighbors, raining frogs on the Pharoah, etc. -- and put Jesus in the Garden of Eden instead of a tree and a serpent? When I don't want my kids to eat something, I put it where they can't get it. Even the most rudimentary planning could have produced a better design -- put the damned tree on the moon, for instance, or (if people will still not be sufficiently mature by the time they reach the moon), put it on Mars, or Planet X circling Alpha Centauri, or in a galaxy far, far away.

The story of God as found in his purported self-penned CV, the Bible, is a tale of one screw-up after another. The first two people he created didn't work as designed. Rather than fix the design, he just chucks it out the window, as though that would somehow improve his holy handiwork. Going into production with a design that's failed unit testing ("Be fruitful and multiply") is never a good idea. Unsurprisingly, as time went by, the world was crawling with people who didn't work as designed. Only one family was deemed to have genes worth salvaging. This is apparently "design by seeing what works," but, darn it all, that second attempt at "making it right" didn't pan out either. If that's the best you can do with omniscience and omnipotence, you probably need to go back to god school.

I can forgive blind matter that somehow managed to claw its way out of the slime and the mud for being less than perfect. It's a miracle that we're here at all.

I could probably even forgive a god that didn't have delusions of grandeur, if he'd come to me honestly and either admit that he's learning as he goes, or explain why his "perfect plan" has to include volcanoes, earthquakes, tsunamis, starvation, disease, and suffering. "Free will" doesn't create volcanoes, so don't blame humanity for that. Tell me what you want, and why, god to man, answer my honest questions, and you might even be able to get a new follower.

Of course, since all the available evidence is that the Bible is just a book of myths created by goatherders who've been dead for more than 100 generations, I think I'll continue to put my faith in science and logic. It's done more to cure disease than all the praying ever done, and it has a better explanation (with gaps, admittedly) for how we got here than any holy book I've ever read. And I've read all the big ones, including yours.