9/11 Twoof™ Poll Manipulations

[Oliver]

Well, you know that your "movement" is dead when you have to
manipulate public polls, also called: clutching at any straw. This
is from the first side of their "Lounge" at LCF:


http://209.85.62.23/style_images/1/newpost.gif (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7001&view=getnewpost) Help Us Name Our New 911 Zogby Poll (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7001)
http://209.85.62.23/style_images/1/newpost.gif (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7003&view=getnewpost) Vote On This Poll ***vote No*** (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7003)
http://209.85.62.23/style_images/1/newpost.gif (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6996&view=getnewpost) We Are Winning The Bill "o" Poll! (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6996)
http://209.85.62.23/style_images/1/newpost.gif (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6778&view=getnewpost) Time For A New Zogby Poll? (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6778)
http://209.85.62.23/style_images/1/newpost.gif (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6984&view=getnewpost) Rosie Pulls Way Ahead On Abc Poll (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6984)
http://209.85.62.23/style_images/1/newpost.gif (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6983&view=getnewpost) Zogby Poll Update! (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6983)
http://209.85.62.23/style_images/1/newpost.gif (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6913&view=getnewpost) Fox News Distorts Poll (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6913) :D (SCANDAL!!OMG!11!1!)



How important are 9/11 polls anyway?

Their Zogby poll had no impact at all and now they try to get another
Zogby poll they can manipulate to "confirm" their believes that 80%
of Americans agree with them? :boggled:



Well, consider this:

MEMBERS | FORUM-NAME
______________________________________

6,803,730 | Gaia Online
5,280,818 | IMobile
5,068,184 | Deviant Art
4,150,200 | MySpace
4,111,600 | IMDb
3,457,152 | Bioware forums
3,432,658 | Gamefaqs
3,289,559 | Game Show Network
3,167,102 | Cfan
2,814,102 | Sound Click
2,781,657 | BeepWorld
1,587,120 | BuddyPic
1,507,584 | Codemasters
1,354,770 | Jolt forums
1,322,900 | Playstation.com
1,307,699 | The Sims resource
1,255,254 | IGN boards
1,249,675 | Gamespot
1,213,394 | Allakhazam
1,210,524 | Pure volume
1,020,798 | Nexopia
.
.
.
11,956 | JREF
.
.
.
2,601 | Loose "80% of US" Change Forum

Source: http://www.big-boards.com/
__________________________________



Any Questions? http://209.85.48.11/html/emoticons/blink.gif

[defaultdotxbe]

i like the second thread "vote on this poll ***vote no***"

if the truth is so obvious and so many people believe it, why do you have to tell them how to vote?

[SkepticGuy]

You forgot one board:
AboveTopSecret, members: 103,391
(ranked #18 in Big-Board traffic)

2006 visitor survey on general topics: 49,172 responses
Question: "Do you agree with this statement: There have been and continue to be deep government conspiracies and cover-ups?"
Response: 82% Yes.

2006 visitor survey on 9/11 topics: 51,790 responses
Question: "Do you believe there are one or more conspiracies related to the events of 9/11/2001?"
Response: 76% Yes, 12% Not Certain.

[Oliver]

i like the second thread "vote on this poll ***vote no***"

if the truth is so obvious and so many people believe it, why do you have to tell them how to vote?


They're dying... And don't even accept it. I guess they even
believe that Loose Change 3 will reveal plenty of new evidence.

(Mhmm, should I start a poll over there?)

[stateofgrace]

You forgot one board:
AboveTopSecret, members: 103,391
(ranked #18 in Big-Board traffic)

2006 visitor survey on general topics: 49,172 responses
Question: "Do you agree with this statement: There have been and continue to be deep government conspiracies and cover-ups?"
Response: 82% Yes.

2006 visitor survey on 9/11 topics: 51,790 responses
Question: "Do you believe there are one or more conspiracies related to the events of 9/11/2001?"
Response: 76% Yes, 12% Not Certain.

A board named above top secret is representative of the entire US, if not the entire planet, right?

[Oliver]

You forgot one board:
AboveTopSecret, members: 103,391
(ranked #18 in Big-Board traffic)

2006 visitor survey on general topics: 49,172 responses
Question: "Do you agree with this statement: There have been and continue to be deep government conspiracies and cover-ups?"
Response: 82% Yes.

2006 visitor survey on 9/11 topics: 51,790 responses
Question: "Do you believe there are one or more conspiracies related to the events of 9/11/2001?"
Response: 76% Yes, 12% Not Certain.


I guess you completely missed the point:

6,803,730 | Gaia Online
103,391 | AboveTopSecret

= 1,51% of Gaia (A roleplay Online-Game)

Your movement is Dead ...and ATS has all sorts of topics.
Like JREF, most parts of the Forum aren't about 911.

[Brainache]

You forgot one board:
AboveTopSecret, members: 103,391
(ranked #18 in Big-Board traffic)

2006 visitor survey on general topics: 49,172 responses
Question: "Do you agree with this statement: There have been and continue to be deep government conspiracies and cover-ups?"
Response: 82% Yes.

2006 visitor survey on 9/11 topics: 51,790 responses
Question: "Do you believe there are one or more conspiracies related to the events of 9/11/2001?"
Response: 76% Yes, 12% Not Certain.

So an internet message board devoted to paranoid conspiracy theories has poll that shows most of its visitors believe in paranoid conspiracy theories. I'm not exactly surprised by that. I am surprised that anyone would think it is significant.

[Oliver]

They're dying... And don't even accept it. I guess they even
believe that Loose Change 3 will reveal plenty of new evidence.

(Mhmm, should I start a poll over there?)


I know it sucks to quote myself but I just checked Alexa again:

http://www.imagebee.org/images/6637graph.png
source: http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?url=www.loosechange911.com

Now compare 0.0001 % of LC-Internetviews traced by Alexa in April to
the 80% of americans who supposedly believe in an inside job...

The 2,601 registered Users (Truthers>&<Skeptics) at the Loose Change
forum compared to the 301,457,000 Americans is about the same
percentage: less than 0,0001%.

So either the Zogby poll was manipulated or nobody really cares.
I know it's bitter but it's true.

[David Wong]

http://pointlesswasteoftime.com/lcvspwot.jpg


Haaaaaa hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!! (snort)

[SkepticGuy]

(the) movement is Dead ...and ATS has all sorts of topics.
Like JREF, most parts of the Forum aren't about 911.
(Chaning "Your" to "the" by me)

I agree "9/11 Truth" is dead... but I'm not certain it was ever alive... so "dead" is relative.

And it's possible the "point" passed many by, as the majority of those boards (if not all boards) are niche environments and not representative of opinion as a whole in anyway. We're sociological freaks (for now), pounding away on keyboards.

And don't put much weight into Alexia, it's easy to manipulate and many do it.

[Foolmewunz]

I know it sucks to quote myself but I just checked Alexa again:

http://www.imagebee.org/images/6637graph.png
source: http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?url=www.loosechange911.com

Now compare 0.0001 % of LC-Internetviews traced by Alexa in April to
the 80% of americans who supposedly believe in an inside job...

The 2,601 registered Users (Truthers>&<Skeptics) at the Loose Change
forum compared to the 301,457,000 Americans is about the same
percentage: less than 0,0001%.

So either the Zogby poll was manipulated or nobody really cares.
I know it's bitter but it's true.

Of course the Zogby poll was manipulated. It's in the framing of the question, itself. And if you read the thread on LCF, they're planning another one. Zogby will word the questions however you choose. They had a similar poll sponsored by the Impeach Bush people.

If you want an impartial poll, you separate the issues - not lump them together. The famous 84% poll basically asked, "Are you a complete drone who believes everything the government tells you, or do you think there might be someone somewhere at sometime in the government or who knew someone in the government who might be not quite giving us the whole story? Huh? Are you, punk?"

The same with the impeach GWB poll. It said, "If it's proved that he lied to congress or did some other dastardly deeds, should he be impeached?" (BTW I'm paraphrasing for all you literal nit-pickers...) If you parse that out, the thing that stands out, is "if it's proved"... Most of us stand by the constitution and the constitution calls for impeachment if a President or V.P. commits perjury. So based on that big "if"... they got a lot more favorable response.

The interesting link in Oliver's first post is the one linking to the email from Lindgren. Read some of those polls. Lindgren is a Libertarian Activist (his own description), and he specializes in framing the wording of polls so as to give his side the best possible result. And he's offering to help Da Boyz set up their Zogby poll.....

Every single poll that has shown big numbers for the troofer side has lumped together several elements in the question. If they exclude the what ifs, they don't get those results. Want to write one to show 95% against the troof movement? Go ahead, give it a try....

Q: What do you believe about 9/11?
1. A bunch of evil Jews in the government faked the attacks, murdered 3000 people, and crashed the economy because they want to take over the world.
2. 19 terrorists, working for a known or unknown terrorist network hijacked four planes and were succcessful in three instances, crashing them into major landmarks in order to attack the USA at its heart.
3. It was probably aliens from invisible UFO's.
4. I distinctly saw pteradactyls in the sky over WTC 1.
5. It was God punishing us for voting a gay guy into the Senate.

[Oliver]

(Chaning "Your" to "the" by me)

I agree "9/11 Truth" is dead... but I'm not certain it was ever alive... so "dead" is relative.

And it's possible the "point" passed many by, as the majority of those boards (if not all boards) are niche environments and not representative of opinion as a whole in anyway. We're sociological freaks (for now), pounding away on keyboards.

And don't put much weight into Alexia, it's easy to manipulate and many do it.


Mhmm, but if the Alexa data is faked, I would think they would
fake the August/September data to make it appear in a way that
no one cared about the anniversary.

What is more likely is, that the Polls are manipulated - this is
what happens whenever there is a 9/11 poll:


http://209.85.62.23/style_images/1/newpost.gif (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7003&view=getnewpost) Vote On This Poll ***vote No*** (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7003)

[GwionX]

Most people that frequent "sports boards" see this tactic being used all the time. Sometimes it is for a Student-Athlete to recieve a cash sum scholarship, in their name, for their univerisity presented by a sponsor. Example would be "Federal Express Ground: Rushing performance of the week" and a list of 4 running backs (from different schools) to vote for.

Of course the "true fans" from these schools will make a consorted effort to manipulate the poll. To "Win it for the Gipper!"

Many polls don't have restrictions either. That is, people that are really compelled to skew the results can spend hours voting over-and-over, dropping 100's of votes from one single computer. To the ordinary "joe" that happens upon the poll, he/she would probably vote only once, then move on.

InTraWeB polls are not reliable. To boast of statistics from an InTraWeb poll is quackery, and *most* people are not impressed, or fooled.

[Oliver]

Of course the Zogby poll was manipulated. It's in the framing of the question, itself. And if you read the thread on LCF, they're planning another one. Zogby will word the questions however you choose. They had a similar poll sponsored by the Impeach Bush people.

If you want an impartial poll, you separate the issues - not lump them together. The famous 84% poll basically asked, "Are you a complete drone who believes everything the government tells you, or do you think there might be someone somewhere at sometime in the government or who knew someone in the government who might be not quite giving us the whole story? Huh? Are you, punk?"

The same with the impeach GWB poll. It said, "If it's proved that he lied to congress or did some other dastardly deeds, should he be impeached?" (BTW I'm paraphrasing for all you literal nit-pickers...) If you parse that out, the thing that stands out, is "if it's proved"... Most of us stand by the constitution and the constitution calls for impeachment if a President or V.P. commits perjury. So based on that big "if"... they got a lot more favorable response.

The interesting link in Oliver's first post is the one linking to the email from Lindgren. Read some of those polls. Lindgren is a Libertarian Activist (his own description), and he specializes in framing the wording of polls so as to give his side the best possible result. And he's offering to help Da Boyz set up their Zogby poll.....

Every single poll that has shown big numbers for the troofer side has lumped together several elements in the question. If they exclude the what ifs, they don't get those results. Want to write one to show 95% against the troof movement? Go ahead, give it a try....


I knew that the questions were paraphrased in a way in
which it would support the Truth-Movement, but I don't
see the significance of Polls in the US. Maybe because
Polls aren't so significant over here. It seems to be some
sort of "rallying call" to make them appear more important
and much bigger than they really are.

Or to say it in another way. The "50 Hardcore Debunkers"
in here are just a small part of JREF and the JREF is a
reaaaly small part of american forum-user. We know this
because common sense. And at this point I guess that
some of them have lost their common sense if they believe
in these polls.

[Oliver]

Most people that frequent "sports boards" see this tactic being used all the time. Sometimes it is for a Student-Athlete to recieve a cash sum scholarship for their univerisity presented by a sponsor in their name.

Of course the "true fans" from these schools will make a consorted effort to manipulate the poll. To "Win it for the Gipper!"

Many polls don't have restrictions either. That is, people that are really compelled to skew the results can spend hours voting over-and-over, dropping 100's of votes from one single computer. To the ordinary "joe" that happens upon the poll, he/she would probably vote only once, then move on.

InTraWeB polls are not reliable. To boast of statistics from an InTraWeb poll is quackery, and *most* people are not impressed, or fooled.


Sorry for the side-question: Are the Zogby polls Internet polls?
I remember they weren't. Fortunately most internet polls log the
individual IP's to avoid voting several times, but of course they
can be manipulated using Proxies ... if you have a lot of time in
your Hands... :p

[Foolmewunz]

Sorry for the side-question: Are the Zogby polls Internet polls?
I remember they weren't. Fortunately most internet polls log the
individual IP's to avoid voting several times, but of course they
can be manipulated using Proxies ... if you have a lot of time in
your Hands... :p

Zogby are a "contact the person and ask the questions" poll organization, but they've recently gone to on-line contacting. People can register as "willing correspondants" (or something like that).....

http://interactive.zogby.com/pollregistration/registration/

But they will still be doing the contacting and asking the questions, so you're correct that they aren't one of those ABC or MSNBC "click here" poll organizations.

BTW in the "Vote No" link, the MSNBC poll has 60% saying Rosie should be fired, so their great powerful vote-swaying ability on LCF is not so awesome as they wish to think.

[Oliver]

Zogby are a "contact the person and ask the questions" poll organization, but they've recently gone to on-line contacting. People can register as "willing correspondants" (or something like that).....

http://interactive.zogby.com/pollregistration/registration/

But they will still be doing the contacting and asking the questions, so you're correct that they aren't one of those ABC or MSNBC "click here" poll organizations.

BTW in the "Vote No" link, the MSNBC poll has 60% saying Rosie should be fired, so their great powerful vote-swaying ability on LCF is not so awesome as they wish to think.


Not only that - there are 25,029 signatures for the stoprosi.com (http://www.stoprosie.com/)
online petition. This is a lot of people for a Website that was
created on 30-mar-2007...

Sources:
http://www.ipv6tools.com/tools/whois.ch?ip=www.stoprosie.com&src=ShowIP
http://www.stoprosie.com/

[chipmunk stew]

Not only that - there are 25,029 signatures for the stoprosi.com (http://www.stoprosie.com/)
online petition. This is a lot of people for a Website that was
created on 30-mar-2007...

Sources:
http://www.ipv6tools.com/tools/whois.ch?ip=www.stoprosie.com&src=ShowIP
http://www.stoprosie.com/
A sampling of "signatures":

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/chipmunk_stew/petition.gif

I think my favorite is "Lol I. Hasalonglastname"

[OPECOILER]

Not only that - there are 25,029 signatures for the stoprosi.com (http://www.stoprosie.com/)
online petition. This is a lot of people for a Website that was
created on 30-mar-2007...

Sources:
http://www.ipv6tools.com/tools/whois.ch?ip=www.stoprosie.com&src=ShowIP
http://www.stoprosie.com/

Of course, online petitions aren't exactly the most accurate, either.

[Oliver]

Of course, online petitions aren't exactly the most accurate, either.


Well, I guess they're logging IP's to avoid more than 1 vote per User.

Added: Nope, you have two votes per IP:



* You have reached your 2 signature limit from this computer.
Thank you for your support (or the fake names)!




:boggled:

[Oliver]

http://209.85.62.23/style_images/1/newpost.gif (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6984&view=getnewpost) Rosie Pulls Way Ahead On Abc Poll (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6984)
Bill had her almost 2-1. not now!!!

http://209.85.62.23/style_images/1/newpost.gif (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7039&view=getnewpost) All Rosie Polls/petitions - Links! (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7039)
VOTE IF YOU HAVEN'T!



...clutching at any straw. http://209.85.12.231/10688/74/emo/scared011.gif

[Cl1mh4224rd]

2006 visitor survey on 9/11 topics: 51,790 responses
Question: "Do you believe there are one or more conspiracies related to the events of 9/11/2001?"
Response: 76% Yes, 12% Not Certain.
Odd... Given the question as asked, that should be 100% Yes.

[JAStewart]

Heh.

Twoof.

[Oliver]

*BUMP* for the ones who are able to explain why Polls
have any significance for American citizens.

[GwionX]

I don't think they are significant (as I stated above)-- but what the twoofer propagandists do is cite these (easily manipulated) poll statistics to legitimize their quite audacious claims. Saying in essence: "it's OK to believe in accusing people of murder without one shread of evidence-- Because everyone else does"

I find that humorous because often times in their same breath conspiricists will say:" Most people you will encounter believe the 'official line' because they are just brainwashed sheeple"

Wait! If a majority of people believe the 9/11 truth B.S., then why are the majority of people offical story sheeple again?

Makes no sense-- which is at least consistent with the 9/11 truther's modus operandi.

[orphia nay]

If you want an impartial poll, you separate the issues - not lump them together. The famous 84% poll basically asked, "Are you a complete drone who believes everything the government tells you, or do you think there might be someone somewhere at sometime in the government or who knew someone in the government who might be not quite giving us the whole story? Huh? Are you, punk?"

:newlol Hilarious! And almost perfectly true.

Every single poll that has shown big numbers for the troofer side has lumped together several elements in the question. If they exclude the what ifs, they don't get those results. Want to write one to show 95% against the troof movement? Go ahead, give it a try....

Q: What do you believe about 9/11?
1. A bunch of evil Jews in the government faked the attacks, murdered 3000 people, and crashed the economy because they want to take over the world.
2. 19 terrorists, working for a known or unknown terrorist network hijacked four planes and were succcessful in three instances, crashing them into major landmarks in order to attack the USA at its heart.
3. It was probably aliens from invisible UFO's.
4. I distinctly saw pteradactyls in the sky over WTC 1.
5. It was God punishing us for voting a gay guy into the Senate.

Hehehe. Why not? Turning the tables on them would be fair, wouldn't it? ;)

Sigh. They don't notice it when they're doing it, but you can be sure they'd jump down our throats if we used their tactics.

[Andúril]

I agree "9/11 Truth" is dead... but I'm not certain it was ever alive... so "dead" is relative.
Well, I always thought the twoofers to act a bit like undead... as if there would be a curse forcing some brainless zombies to embrace conspiracy theories and to spread them around again and again despite being repeatedly crushed...