Psychic or Charlatan?

[Rodney]

See http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=446979&in_page_id=1879

Excerpt:

"She tells me that my husband’s name is Simon. ‘Wrong!’ I say, quite relieved that she’s screwed up so spectacularly and I can go back to disbelieving all this nonsense.

"Only later, when rubbishing her talents to my husband, does he tell me that his confirmation name — chosen when he took his first communion at the age of ten, then promptly forgotten about — is indeed Simon."

[SRW]

See http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=446979&in_page_id=1879

Excerpt:

"She tells me that my husband’s name is Simon. ‘Wrong!’ I say, quite relieved that she’s screwed up so spectacularly and I can go back to disbelieving all this nonsense.

"Only later, when rubbishing her talents to my husband, does he tell me that his confirmation name — chosen when he took his first communion at the age of ten, then promptly forgotten about — is indeed Simon."

I'll go out on a limb here, and go with Charlatan.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Thank goodness no one in the world is ever gonna guess my confirmation name. It's Bogumila. I can hardly remember if it's Bogumila or Boguslawa but Im fairly certain it's indeed Bogumila.

[thaiboxerken]

Has she proven herself in a controlled environment? If not, she's a charlatan.

[Kopji]

...Then I’d instantly know if she was a genuine medium, with extraordinary powers, or a dangerous quack out to make a quick buck from those gullible enough to pay her.

What about her own future? Does she see a long and happy life ahead?

Of course she does. In the more immediate future she sees — surprise! — serious fame and fortune coming her way.

‘Do you know, I genuinely do see my TV show being a big success. I think it is going to win awards. I am seeing that. I think I’m on the verge of something big.’

I think that both the writer and 'psychic' are forms of an 'unreliable narrator'. They both would agree that she is either a charlatan or 'for real'. The reality is more complex because there are more choices than just the two. She could honestly think she has a 'psychic gift', but in reality has something else - a skill in reading faces, emotions, situations.

I've seen some amazing cold readings, but they go with a client who wants to believe, or many 'misses' are just forgotten - like a gambler who only remembers his wins and not the losses.

She does not need to be evil or dishonest, but Randi's challenge does sort of stand in her face. If she can truly see the future, there may be a million dollars in it. She certainly cannot claim to have a moral qualm about applying, since she already has her own TV show.

[grayman]

Most have never heard of my given name.

I vote for charlatan.

[Lisa Simpson]

Most have never heard of my given name.


Is it Rumpelstiltskin?

[Ravenwood]

See http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=446979&in_page_id=1879

Excerpt:

"She tells me that my husband’s name is Simon. ‘Wrong!’ I say, quite relieved that she’s screwed up so spectacularly and I can go back to disbelieving all this nonsense.

"Only later, when rubbishing her talents to my husband, does he tell me that his confirmation name — chosen when he took his first communion at the age of ten, then promptly forgotten about — is indeed Simon."

As a former Catholic, I can tell you that your confirmation name is taken at the sacrament of confirmation, not first communion, & not at the age of 10...
I vote charlatan.

[Azrael 5]

When I saw Dialy Mail in the link I immediately groaned.Then I thought "Mia Dolan" as she hasd recently done a spate of media.But it's dear old Sally Morgan,and yes she is a charlatan.

[Big Les]

1) She told her that her husband's name was Simon. Not his confirmation name, not his middle name, not his bloody nickname, his name.
2) We don't have the transcript; the final statement appears as "his name is Simon", but the actual reading could have involved the usual "S-name", "Steve or Simon or Sasperalla" BS.
3) Morgan appears to make great use of warm and hot reading in some cases. How is she so vague in some instances, and yet so apparently specific in others (edited TV footage mainly)?
4) She has not submitted to scientific testing, which if she is as insightful as she appears on face value (disregarding cold and hot reading), ought to show results better than chance, net her even more fame and money, not to mention a Nobel prize.
5) I wouldn't trust the Daily Mail to tell me what the weather was like last week, let alone objectively report on the paranormal.
6) This is dung.

[baron]

‘She’s a very large lady, very tall and imposing,’ she said confidently. ‘Nope,’ I replied. ‘My grandmother was five foot nothing and built like a whippet.’


She barely drew breath. ‘When I say large, I mean large in heart.’


Does she have a tall heart too? What a total crock.

[joesixpack]

As a former Catholic, I can tell you that your confirmation name is taken at the sacrament of confirmation, not first communion, & not at the age of 10...
I vote charlatan.

Good catch, I skimmed right past that.

[Azrael 5]

Whenever I approach these psychics to interview or get a reading I get short shrift(probably as I call them frauds from the off lol),
Why is it always women? WHy not a hard faced war journalist who wouldn't be swayed by tricks?

[Stellafane]

See http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=446979&in_page_id=1879

Excerpt:

"She tells me that my husband’s name is Simon. ‘Wrong!’ I say, quite relieved that she’s screwed up so spectacularly and I can go back to disbelieving all this nonsense.

"Only later, when rubbishing her talents to my husband, does he tell me that his confirmation name — chosen when he took his first communion at the age of ten, then promptly forgotten about — is indeed Simon."

If this "hit" overrides her history of "disbelieving all this nonsense," then her disbelief didn't run very deeply in the first place. The question was her husband's name. "Simon" isn't it. No one knew him as Simon, not his wife or even himself. "Simon" is just some name that happens to be vaguely associated with his past. I myself have had a number of names by which I've been called at various points in my life, including "Daisy," "Boston," "Arizona," "Doc," and "Fingers" (don't ask). If some psychic told me my name is "Boston," it wouldn't shake my disbelief one iota, since it would be wrong.

So back to your original question: most definitely charlatan.

[Tricky]

Is it Rumpelstiltskin?
LOL. One of the earliest examples in literature of a "hot reading".

[Moochie]

When I saw Dialy Mail in the link I immediately groaned.Then I thought "Mia Dolan" as she hasd recently done a spate of media.But it's dear old Sally Morgan,and yes she is a charlatan.

And she's bound to be enormously successful.

S I G H.

M.

[Ladewig]

I'm prepared to call her psychic as soon as she proves herself under controlled conditions. I'd love to see her apply for the JREF prize. She already charges money for her readings so there won't be any "I am above performing for money" stuff.

[fuelair]

Charlatan for 30 quid, Chuck!

[Azrael 5]

I'm prepared to call her psychic as soon as she proves herself under controlled conditions. I'd love to see her apply for the JREF prize. She alread
y charges money for her readings so there won't be any "I am above performing for money" stuff.

Asked her already,and posted her reply on here.
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=61708&highlight=sally+morgan


What evidence do you have that i am a fraud? surely that is what i might ask. Why on earth should i spend my life (i am 55 years old and have run this gauntlet ALL my life) proving myself to pricks like you.

Why don't you get a life and look beyond your own self importance? Just be a sceptic for crying out loud and be done with it, relax honey there is more to this life than narrow minds like yours.

Oh dear now you have got me going on one, this hasn't happened for a long while, let me have your address and when my book is published in Feb. i will send you a copy, you need it.

[Rrose Selavy]

I'd say her assumed name is Psychic but her confirmation name is Charlatan....

[Big Les]

Asked her already,and posted her reply on here.
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=61708&highlight=sally+morgan
Ah, I remember that silly bint; I wasn't too familiar with Morgan at the time and so hadn't placed her as the same person.

So what's your verdict? Self-deluder or cynical exploiter? My vote's the latter.

[Azrael 5]

Definetly the latter.Add nasty foul mouthed hag to that too.

[JonWhite]

The Daily Mail site sucks as bad as the paper itself. I tried posting a perfectly reasonable (negative but polite) message which has been rejected. Hmphh!! :mad:

[Stupendous Man]

Quote:
" While Gillian takes people to task over their human waste, Sally rummages around inside their psyches, telling them that they have problems with their mother-in-law, and need to be careful with that left shoulder."

*I* have a problem with my left shoulder! She obviously is working through the press to predict the...present for me.

[Big Les]

The comparison to non-Dr Gillian "poo sniffer" McKeith is not without merit.

[fuelair]

Definetly the latter.Add nasty foul mouthed hag to that too.
Sounds like she might be a close relation to Slyvia Browneye.

[Rodney]

The Daily Mail site sucks as bad as the paper itself. I tried posting a perfectly reasonable (negative but polite) message which has been rejected. Hmphh!! :mad:
Did it by any chance say: "Definetly the latter. Add nasty foul mouthed hag to that too."? ;)

[Azrael 5]

Did it by any chance say: "Definetly the latter. Add nasty foul mouthed hag to that too."? ;)

Mine did. :D:D

[JonWhite]

Did it by any chance say: "Definetly the latter. Add nasty foul mouthed hag to that too."? ;)

Scarily close!! Rodney should have his own psychic TV show :D

[jimbob]

This is an interesting link, an Australian sceptic getting offered, and turning down a job as a psychic:

http://www.bad-language.com/psychicskeptic

[Loss Leader]

If the psychic hasn't submitted to a proper test, I vote charlatan.

I had to sit for a two-day test and submit transcripts, affidavits and my bank records before being allowed to be called a lawyer.

Why shouldn't one be required to be rigorously tested before being called a psychic?

[jimbob]

I'll see if mine gets through:

I *did* mention distrust of new labour, which should help...

I have seen magicians perform impressive "psychic" feats. "Real" psychics have been caught using radios and hidden mikes.

If you look up "Cold reading" on wikipedia, you can see how effective that can be.

"Hot reading" (including googling the name of your interviewer) can be even more impressive.

I wonder how Derren Brown would perform in a similar interview, a great opportunity for any journalist.

I don't trust new labour not spin a story, and I don't trust "psychics" for the same reason, "it probably beats working for a living".

History suggests that trickery is more likely than magic.

I note that Azimov, form badscience has his comments visible...

WOW! she should claim the James Randi Educational Foundation prize for $1 million. I wonder why she hasn't already?

I'm willing to accept psychics COULD exist but you have to prove it in a demonstrable way, I see no proof of anything in this article.

- Azimov, Nottingham

[Azrael 5]

If only it were the Express,you could mention Princess Diana and that would guarantee your comment going up! :)

[Big Les]

Just watching "Sally Morgan; Star Psychic". The (allegedly) blind group readings are, in my opinion, very good (if well edited/selected) cold reading, with maybe one or two hot-read moments as a skeleton on which to hang cold-read statements. The one-to-ones and psychometry sessions are ridiculously accurate. As in naming two friends, "Fran" and "Charlotte", without any "I'm getting an F-name" shenanigans. The statements about objects with famous owners are very accurate, but smack of someone dancing around a subject without wanting to appear as though they already know.

She has to be red-hot reading here. Bloody risky, isn't it? It's quite frustrating; outright fraud is pretty tough to debunk. Unless she's really psychic... :rolleyes: in which case she should contact JREF asap. Anyone have any leads on this woman?

[CFLarsen]

"Psychic or charlatan?"

False dichotomy.

[Big Les]

Seriously, she's.. impressive. Now, it has to be down to hot reading and clever editing, but "we" need something on this one. Has anyone written anything in-depth on her?

[RenaissanceBiker]

"Psychic or charlatan?"
False dichotomy.

Agreed, she could also be deluded.

[Azrael 5]

Not much about on her Big Les,as you say TV makes her look good,too good.But unless the producers reveal all we ain't gonna find out.She will turn up on This Morning or doing a tour eventually,THEN we will see.

[Beelzebubba]

Psychic or Charlatan? Yes.

[John Jackson]

She's definitely a genuine psychic.

She's on the telly now and she hasn't got a single thing wrong.

Nice arse too.

[Big Les]

The programme I just watched with members of Goldie Lookin' Chain on it was far less impressive. Much more cold reading and more obvious editing. Including one woman who was told her relative "was stabbed" before Morgan switched to a vague illness, pretty much in the same sentence. Which I guess is why they left it in. The casual viewer or creduloid wouldn't even spot or pay attention to that.

The random Derren Brown-esque street readings via phonebox have many, many holes in them in terms of:

-We have no idea how many readings are given per successful reading
-The footage of Morgan making her statements may not be contemporary with the response footage
-Literally all of the "misses" can be edited clean out due to the switching back and forth between reader and read.
-(Therefore) we don't know what was actually said to elicit the positive responses shown

The celebrity readings feature a good deal of cutting away and closeups/distance shots. They are very short at only a few minutes; how much footage was shot? How many "misses" occurred? The "wow she couldn't have known that" testimonials at the end, by implication, apply to the whole reading. But it may be that they are stated with only to those "hits" that stood in mind.

In short, she's clearly taken a leaf out of Derren Brown's book in terms of changing the flavour of her readings, varying locations, carefully controlled setups and editing, and using a degree of showmanship not usually seen in "psychics". The overall effect to the casual viewer or believer is of a genuine psychic. But not, by any stretch of the imagination, one with a nice arse.

[Azrael 5]

The interview with Bez and his bird wasn't very convincing neither,even with editing!
Stretching "Liliana" into Lily Allen afterthe fact!
"Oh you know what? I was going to say Liliana!"

It still wouldn't have been right though.:rolleyes:

[strider]

If anybody knows a psychic who is not a charlatan, please tell them about the $1M prize.