Imus be an idiot . . .

[Mephisto]

. . . if I thought calling a primarily Black, girl's basketball team, "nappy-headed ho's," wouldn't be interpreted as racist!

I guess he wasn't smart enough to learn from Michael Richard's mistakes.

Imus: 'Embarrassed' by racial comments

POSTED: 12:10 p.m. EDT, April 9, 2007

NEW YORK (AP) -- Calling himself "a good person" who made a bad mistake, radio host Don Imus said Monday he would check his acid tongue after being lambasted for making racially charged comments about the Rutgers University women's basketball team.

"Here's what I've learned: that you can't make fun of everybody, because some people don't deserve it," he said on his nationally syndicated radio show Monday morning. "And because the climate on this program has been what it's been for 30 years doesn't mean it's going to be what it's been for the next five years or whatever."

Imus said he was "embarrassed" by the remarks, in which he referred to the mostly black team as "nappy-headed hos." He said he had made the comments in the course of "trying to be funny," but he was not trying to excuse them.

"I'm not a bad person. I'm a good person, but I said a bad thing. But these young women deserve to know it was not said with malice," he said.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/04/09/imus.ap/index.html


No malice, huh? I guess he wouldn't be offended if from now on he's seen as a nappy-headed honkie. ;)

[corplinx]

The Imus thing seemed like he was victim of a slow news day. Yet another non-issue getting turned into news fodder.

Yawn.

Does anyone really care what a washed up DJ says?

[Lonewulf]

No malice, huh? I guess he wouldn't be offended if from now on he's seen as a nappy-headed honkie. ;)

I honestly find it hard to be insulted by the term "honkie".

I'd also add that "ho" doesn't really refer to skin color, but instead to a particular style of sexual preference.

I.E., the type that involves cash.

[Mephisto]

The Imus thing seemed like he was victim of a slow news day. Yet another non-issue getting turned into news fodder.

Yes, much like Michael Richards was guilty of an unhumorous, comedy act.

Does anyone really care what a washed up DJ says?

Only the African-American ladies on the Rutger basketball team, Jesse Jackson, thousands of people in the NAACP, Allison Gollust, a spokeswoman for MSNBC, Karen Mateo, a spokeswoman for CBS Radio and last, but not least, the Reverend Al Sharpton. Oh yeah, and a handful of Americans who are getting tired of racist remarks being made and then expediently apologized for by idiots.

[headscratcher4]

Maybe a slow news day, but he called a losing woman's basketball team from a good school -- Rutgers -- some "nappy-headed ho's." Now, what did they do to deserve that? They just played and lost a basketball game. They weren't politicians, or public figures, just some young women playing basketball -- and at a level far higher than someone like Imus could ever have aspired to.

"Nappy-headed"? Come on, he had to have known/understood the racial content of it. So, on top of insulting some kids who don't have a national audience so that they can defend themselves, Imus introduced race AND Sex (by calling them hos).

How would you feel if you were that team? How would you feel if you were those girl's mothers/fathers and family.

He shouldn't be fired. He should, however, have to meet these young ladies and try to explain to them his humor, why it was funny, what is so funny about their loss, their play, their efforts, etc.

He's a sad man.

[Upchurch]

He shouldn't be fired.
I dunno. I wouldn't go so far as to advocate him being fired, but if I were his boss, I'd be thinking long and hard about whether or not I'd want to continue paying him.

[corplinx]

Are we this oversensitive as a culture? Mind you, I don't like Don Imus.


This is the official non-issue of the day.

[corplinx]

How would you feel if you were that team? How would you feel if you were those girl's mothers/fathers and family.


I doubt they heard the original remark with the numbers he's pulling these days.

HS, why the "cry me a river" defense? Noone is free from insult. Even if they just lost the big game.

[corplinx]

http://nappyhairaffair.com/
http://www.nappystories.com/

My god, this man is Hitler.

[SezMe]

Only the African-American ladies on the Rutger basketball team, Jesse Jackson, thousands of people in the NAACP, Allison Gollust, a spokeswoman for MSNBC, Karen Mateo, a spokeswoman for CBS Radio and last, but not least, the Reverend Al Sharpton.

"...but not least ... Sharpton"? What does that mean? I don't know most of the other people on that list but Sharpton stands out to me as one of the most racist "media commentators" there is. The man is an embarrasssment.

[corplinx]

Sharpton had Imus on his radio show today to say he's sorry. Score a nice ratings day for the Rev. Al.

[JPK]

Good afternoon.

I admit that I have never found Imus funny, but it is supossed to be a comedy show, and therefore should not really be taken seriously. I'm pretty sure most radios have several options for dealing with things like this like changing the station or turning them off .
JPK

[corplinx]

More interesting to me, can anyone find who started this self perpetuating story? Who originally got their panties in a bunch and started this weird dogpile on Imus? Theres the real story.

Nappy was harmless until Wednesday of last week. Nappy nappy nappy.

[Mephisto]

"...but not least ... Sharpton"? What does that mean? I don't know most of the other people on that list but Sharpton stands out to me as one of the most racist "media commentators" there is. The man is an embarrasssment.

That's why I put him last, I didn't want to say least, but while his opinion isn't important to many people who think - he's still a spokesman for many African -Americans.

[Mephisto]

Nappy was harmless until Wednesday of last week. Nappy nappy nappy.

Whether you realize it or not, nappy was always derogitory remark when applied to African-Americans.

[corplinx]

I just walked over and consulted the advice of two guys I work with. Apparently, nappy is a racial slur when used by a white person because white people don't have nappy hair.

[Mephisto]

I'd also add that "ho" doesn't really refer to skin color, but instead to a particular style of sexual preference.

It's Black slang for a prostitute - what did young women playing basketball do to deserve that title?

[Katana]

Whether you realize it or not, nappy was always derogitory remark when applied to African-Americans.

As opposed to the rest of us?

Mephisto, you call me (or any part of moi) nappy, and you may meet the acquaintance of my blade. :p

[BPSCG]

Did anyone else catch this?
"Here's what I've learned: that you can't make fun of everybody, Okay, who can you make fun of? Obviously, politicians and entertainers. Who else?

Oh, fat guys and bald guys, too.

Anyone else?

[Mephisto]

I just walked over and consulted the advice of two guys I work with. Apparently, nappy is a racial slur when used by a white person because white people don't have nappy hair.

It's certainly a racial slur when used by a White DJ to describe African-American women.

[corplinx]

Whether you realize it or not, nappy was always derogitory remark when applied to African-Americans.

Its hard to imagine it being racist when I heard it at the school lunch table nearly every day to hear some kid describe another kid's gramma. I was one of two Caucasians in my eighth grade class. It was a word that I never took heat for using in the lunchtime "repartee" known as "checking".

However, I prodded some black co-workers who went to some of the schools in my district. They replied "times have changed".

[Mephisto]

As opposed to the rest of us?

Mephisto, you call me (or any part of moi) nappy, and you may meet the acquaintance of my blade. :p

Unless I'm referring to someone's penchant for siestas during the hottest part of the day, I would NEVER use the word nappy.

And I'm smart enough NOT to make the acquaintance of your blade. :)

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Sharpton had Imus on his radio show today to say he's sorry. Score a nice ratings day for the Rev. Al.

Which is ultimately what it is all about.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

That's why I put him last, I didn't want to say least, but while his opinion isn't important to many people who think - he's still a spokesman for many African -Americans.

None that I know. Bring his name up in conversation, and you'll get a lot of eye rolling.

[headscratcher4]

HS, why the "cry me a river" defense? Noone is free from insult. Even if they just lost the big game.

No, no one is free from being insulted. But just because you can, should you?

Was it funny?

It was sad, is all. Would you want Imus to call your daughter a ho on national radio? They didn't put themsleves into the public sphere, Imus did.

Because we can act like 10 year olds, doesn't mean we should. That's all.

As I said I don't think he should be fired. I hope he'll be more thoughtful, he doesn't have to, however.

Fortunately, one great thing about this country is I don't have to listen to him...I can turn the radio to another station...

[Upchurch]

Oh, fat guys and bald guys, too.

HEY! :mad:




;)

[Mephisto]

Its hard to imagine it being racist when I heard it at the school lunch table nearly every day to hear some kid describe another kid's gramma. I was one of two Caucasians in my eighth grade class. It was a word that I never took heat for using in the lunchtime "repartee" known as "checking".

I remember "checking" or "playing the dozens," in school. It was usually between friends and anything was fair game. Stepping out of the friendly circle to play usually meant "fighting words." :)

However, I prodded some black co-workers who went to some of the schools in my district. They replied "times have changed".

Times have changed and I would like to think for the better. We should at least be cognizant of the words that might hurt others. Especially if we are on national radio.

[King of the Americas]

I watch and listen to Imus occasionally.

He is usually dry, thoughtful, boring, and now and again he can ask a pointed question or two toward a political guest. But those moments are few and far between.

To me, he seems like an aging radio DJ striving to remain relivent... He isn't as 'shocking' as he used to be, thus his MSNBC TV show.

He is less of a comedy guy, and more of a news guy.

His show is usually a bunch of old white guys, talking about stuff that yung people find boring.

When he was young, 'racist' slang stuff was hip and cool to use. Some people can still get away with it, without being tared and feathered.

Imus just missed the cut...

[casebro]

All part of the current fad of having two 'personalities' in a spat. Trump/ Rosie. O'Rielly/Rosie. Imus/Sharpton. Did you catch O'Reilly and Geraldo last night? All good for the ratings of each 'personality'.

[steverino]

All part of the current fad of having two 'personalities' in a spat. Trump/ Rosie.


You mean the the WASP and the bull-dyke?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

STEVIE WONDER LYRICS

"I Wish"

Looking back on when I
Was a little nappy headed boy
Then my only worry
Was for Christmas what would be my toy
Even though we sometimes
Would not get a thing
We were happy with the
Joy the day would bring

[hgc]

You mean the the WASP and the bull-dyke?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

STEVIE WONDER LYRICS

"I Wish"

Looking back on when I
Was a little nappy headed boy
Then my only worry
Was for Christmas what would be my toy
Even though we sometimes
Would not get a thing
We were happy with the
Joy the day would bring


I love that song. Just running through the melody in my mind makes me smile.

[Tricky]

I strongly object to the title of this thread. It might look as if it were intended as a joke, but was obviously meant as a slur on the speech patterns of African-Americans. Punning the word "mus" for must and use of the infinitive "be" instead of "is" makes it quite obvious that Mephisto is willing to insult a whole ethnicity in order to make his little joke. Sho 'nuff.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I like how he calls politicians "fat bastards". And those are the ones he likes!

[BPSCG]

No, no one is free from being insulted. But just because you can, should you?Muslims are.

[aerosolben]

Muslims are.
Muslims are stupid.

...when should I expect the Men in Black to show up?

[Beerina]

I dunno. I wouldn't go so far as to advocate him being fired, but if I were his boss, I'd be thinking long and hard about whether or not I'd want to continue paying him.

And knowing his ratings have probably skyrocketted the past few days?

[RichardR]

Whether you realize it or not, nappy was always derogitory remark when applied to African-Americans.
Could you please explain that for us Brits? In the UK a nappy is a diaper. Apart from that I'm having trouble understanding what he meant.

"Ho", I understand, although I didn't realize it was race specific.

[Beerina]

"...but not least ... Sharpton"? What does that mean?


It is kind of like saying, "...but not least...Shemp, mounting a goat," isn't it?

[fuelair]

Yes, much like Michael Richards was guilty of an unhumorous, comedy act.



Only the African-American ladies on the Rutger basketball team, Jesse Jackson, thousands of people in the NAACP, Allison Gollust, a spokeswoman for MSNBC, Karen Mateo, a spokeswoman for CBS Radio and last, but not least, the Reverend Al Sharpton. Oh yeah, and a handful of Americans who are getting tired of racist remarks being made and then expediently apologized for by idiots.

If Jackson and Sharpton were removed from that list
I would have no trouble agreeing with it. I haven't cared what either of them thought in a long time - and I am not likely ever to again.

[196]

Could you please explain that for us Brits? In the UK a nappy is a diaper."Nappy" is used as an adjective to describe very curly African hair that is left in its natural, curly state. The hair takes on a unique texture. The term is used derisively because it is associated with a person not "maintaining" his or her hair (e.g. combing it out, chemically relaxing it, putting it into braids, etc.).

[Katana]

If Jackson and Sharpton were removed from that list
I would have no trouble agreeing with it. I haven't cared what either of them thought in a long time - and I am not likely ever to again.

Much like how I have neither cared for what Imus has ever said nor do I give a rat's a$$ about what he is going to say in the near or distant future.

[Mephisto]

Could you please explain that for us Brits? In the UK a nappy is a diaper. Apart from that I'm having trouble understanding what he meant.

"Ho", I understand, although I didn't realize it was race specific.

Here's a definition:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
nap·py3 [nap-ee]
–adjective, -pi·er, -pi·est.
1. covered with nap; downy.
2. (of hair) kinky.

The second definition is the relevant one. :) "Nappy-headed" is particularly offensive as it was directed at the Black females. "Ho's" was equally offensive considering these were young women atheletes engaged in a sporting event.

[Mephisto]

I strongly object to the title of this thread. It might look as if it were intended as a joke, but was obviously meant as a slur on the speech patterns of African-Americans. Punning the word "mus" for must and use of the infinitive "be" instead of "is" makes it quite obvious that Mephisto is willing to insult a whole ethnicity in order to make his little joke. Sho 'nuff.

I was actually making fun of the slurred speech of alcoholic cowboys. My apologies to any of those on this forum. :)

[Jeff Corey]

Actually, ex Marines.

[Darth Rotor]

"Ho's" was equally offensive considering these were young women . . . engaged in a "sporting" event.
Right.

Ho's.

Sorry, I just could not resist.

That's a four minute major, PWD.

It's a fair cop.

*skates to penalty box*

DR

[joe1347]

Remember "the Greaseman" and his infamous on-the-air comment. Imus is in 'big' trouble. AM radio here you come.

[Tricky]

Remember "the Greaseman" and his infamous on-the-air comment. Imus is in 'big' trouble. AM radio here you come.
Worse. Satellite.

[SezMe]

Latest news is that he is suspended for two weeks. My interpretation of that is that he'll never be back.

BTW, Joe, I already get him locally on AM. I think I'll tune it tomorrow to catch his side of the action.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

We're living in a society where political correctness has gone out of control.
This whole ordeal is one big bile of B.S. Dan Imus apologized clearly didn't mean anything racist by it. It's a joke. These idiots(Sharpton and Jackson) think it's constructive to gather their 15 supporters and picket outside of NBC headquarters. Constructive, when African American dropout rates and incarceration rates are at all time highs. But why? Why would they have their priorities so mixed up? Because speaking out against dropout rates doesn't get publicity. This does. And not to mention they likely aren't even smart enough to say anything intelligent about any other issues than these trifles.

[corplinx]

Did Don Imus really deserve to get thrown under the train over this crap?

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Did Don Imus really deserve to get thrown under the train over this crap?

No. NBC is cowardly so they let scoundrels like Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson bully them into submission with their absurd tactics. How anyone other than the actual players of Rutgers could be offended is beyond me. Just a case of oversensitivity and political correctness gone awry.

[Mephisto]

No. NBC is cowardly so they let scoundrels like Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson bully them into submission with their absurd tactics. How anyone other than the actual players of Rutgers could be offended is beyond me. Just a case of oversensitivity and political correctness gone awry.

Yeah, people are just too sensitive these days. People like Michael Richards, Jimmy the Greek, Newt Gingrich, Mel Gibson and George Lincoln Rockwell are just misunderstood. These are great men who've done more for our society than a million ghetto-dwellers. Stupid minorities.

[SezMe]

I disagree, Meph. Imus is a professional mud-mouth. He's always calling names - it's part of his schtick. The same cannot be said for the others you list. So he went to far, big deal. If he was really contrite, he would have invited the players into his studio (on his own dime) and apologized face-to-face. And he would have told Al to go stick it where the sun don't shine.

[Mephisto]

I disagree, Meph. Imus is a professional mud-mouth. He's always calling names - it's part of his schtick. The same cannot be said for the others you list. So he went to far, big deal. If he was really contrite, he would have invited the players into his studio (on his own dime) and apologized face-to-face. And he would have told Al to go stick it where the sun don't shine.

But, SezMe - should he be excused simply because he's a "professional" mud-mouth? I just can't understand the recent tendency for "professionals" (whether they're politicians, comedians, or movie stars) to mouth off regarding minorities without concern for how their remarks might be taken.

I also understand that Imus has requested an audience with the Rutgers basketball players and their parents, but has been turned down. Apparently they don't want to allow him to believe his apology is penance enough for his insensitivity.

I've also found out that Sharpton once called New York City "Hymie-Town," and had I known that when he did it, I would have spoken out against him as well.

I just have trouble with anyone belittling another race or culture. When I was in the military I met friends of all races and all religions (and many different cultures) who I would have died for. To think that their children or grandchildren would be injured by such hurtful language bothers me greatly. Being a professional mud-mouth isn't any more an excuse than "I was making a joke," or "I just had too much to drink."

[SezMe]

But, SezMe - should he be excused simply because he's a "professional" mud-mouth? I just can't understand the recent tendency for "professionals" (whether they're politicians, comedians, or movie stars) to mouth off regarding minorities without concern for how their remarks might be taken.

I'll admit it's a judgement call and reasonable people could come down on the issue differently. My call is not based on what all those others do, just on what Imus does. He's dumping on people all the time - this is just another instance. Those others you list are not in the same habit. So it is that context which sways the issue for me. But, again, I can see where others might judge that context insufficient an excuse.



I've also found out that Sharpton once called New York City "Hymie-Town," and had I known that when he did it, I would have spoken out against him as well.

No, it was Jackson (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/frenzy/jackson.htm).

I just have trouble with anyone belittling another race or culture. When I was in the military I met friends of all races and all religions (and many different cultures) who I would have died for. To think that their children or grandchildren would be injured by such hurtful language bothers me greatly. Being a professional mud-mouth isn't any more an excuse than "I was making a joke," or "I just had too much to drink."

As I said, perfectly reasonable people see this differently. I won't argue your position as being a justifiable alternative to mine.

[shecky]

Imus probably deserved to be thrown under the train a long time ago. But lets get real. You can't do stuff like call Rutgers' womens basketball team a bunch of black whores, and then act surprised if they get pissed off. So Imus takes his lumps for running his mouth.

Then he takes more lumps for agreeing to have anything to do with Sharpton. The first offense could have easily been an off the cuff accident. The second is sheer stupidity, completely self inflicted.

[Cain]

The Imus thing seemed like he was victim of a slow news day.

Ah, yes, Imus is the victim. :rolleyes: I love it when BSers -- particularly GDFM alumni -- rant and rave about a culture of victimization until it comes to making excuses for racist blowhards like Imus.

SezSomeone:
I don't know most of the other people on that list but Sharpton stands out to me as one of the most racist "media commentators" there is.

What has Al Sharpton done to deserve this label?

[brodski]

http://nappyhairaffair.com/
http://www.nappystories.com/

My god, this man is Hitler.

More interesting to me, can anyone find who started this self perpetuating story? Who originally got their panties in a bunch and started this weird dogpile on Imus? Theres the real story.

Nappy was harmless until Wednesday of last week. Nappy nappy nappy.

You are missing the point. It was not the individual words that were racist, it was the phrase.

if I refer to a black woman as a black woman that is not a racial slur.
If i call a black woman a "bitch", while misogynistic, that is not a racial slur.
If i call a black woman a "black bitch" that is a racial slur, as a reference to racial characteristics has been included in the insult.

[jimtron]

Did anyone else catch this?
Okay, who can you make fun of? Obviously, politicians and entertainers. Who else?

Oh, fat guys and bald guys, too.

Anyone else?
You can make fun of anyone you like. So can Imus. And others are free to react.

Did Don Imus really deserve to get thrown under the train over this crap?Imus is free to express himself, as his critics are. I know you're exaggerating, but what has Imus done that is akin to getting thrown under a train? And if Imus didn't think he did anything wrong, he shouldn't have apologized. Same with Michael Richards. Say whatever you want. If you feel you did nothing wrong, stick to your guns and don't apologize. If you realize you said something stupid, then apologize.

This really isn't so complicated. Imus admits he was wrong. I assume (but don't know for sure) that the players were offended. Other people not directly involved are offended. For those of you who aren't offended by the remarks, that's fine, but the argument that his words weren't offensive doesn't hold water. Maybe not to everyone, but demonstrably they were offensive to many, and Imus admitted he was wrong.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Yeah, people are just too sensitive these days. People like Michael Richards, Jimmy the Greek, Newt Gingrich, Mel Gibson and George Lincoln Rockwell are just misunderstood. These are great men who've done more for our society than a million ghetto-dwellers. Stupid minorities.

Now you're comparing Don Imus's "Nappy headed hos" to the anti-semitic ramblings of Mel Gibson or the "******, ******, ******," from Richards?

[Dustin Kesselberg]

But, SezMe - should he be excused simply because he's a "professional" mud-mouth? I just can't understand the recent tendency for "professionals" (whether they're politicians, comedians, or movie stars) to mouth off regarding minorities without concern for how their remarks might be taken.

Excused from WHAT? Being fired? Being suspended? For something as trivial as what he said?


I just have trouble with anyone belittling another race or culture. When I was in the military I met friends of all races and all religions (and many different cultures) who I would have died for. To think that their children or grandchildren would be injured by such hurtful language bothers me greatly. Being a professional mud-mouth isn't any more an excuse than "I was making a joke," or "I just had too much to drink."


If he wants to insult the Rutgers players then that's his right. That's what he does. His remarks were offensive and should of only been offensive to the players themselves, but they were by no stretch of the imagination "racist". Sorry.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Imus probably deserved to be thrown under the train a long time ago. But lets get real. You can't do stuff like call Rutgers' womens basketball team a bunch of black whores, and then act surprised if they get pissed off. So Imus takes his lumps for running his mouth.

Then he takes more lumps for agreeing to have anything to do with Sharpton. The first offense could have easily been an off the cuff accident. The second is sheer stupidity, completely self inflicted.

You're a liar. Stop saying he called them "Black whores". He didn't.

He said "Nappy headed hos".

"Nappy headed" doesn't necessarily mean black. Many whites have nappy hair. The players happened to have nappy hair and they happened to be black. Ohh, it must be racist! :rolleyes:

[Dustin Kesselberg]

You are missing the point. It was not the individual words that were racist, it was the phrase.

if I refer to a black woman as a black woman that is not a racial slur.
If i call a black woman a "bitch", while misogynistic, that is not a racial slur.
If i call a black woman a "black bitch" that is a racial slur, as a reference to racial characteristics has been included in the insult.

Who made up those rules?


Either way. Imus never mentioned their race. He mentioned their attributes, which happened to be nappy hair. Which they have. Which HE has as well. He's white.

[Gurdur]

Who made up those rules?
Society + history.
Either way. Imus never mentioned their race. He mentioned their attributes
Evasion.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Society + history.

When? Where? You're being too vague.

Evasion.

Evading what? He mentioned their hair, which happened to be nappy. Which it is. Which HE has as well. He's white. What is racist about what he said?

[Gurdur]

When? Where? You're being too vague.
Don't be so childishly silly. On two threads now you have had every tiny detail pointed out to you. The fact that you disagree with them does not change the fact that they have been pointed out to you.
Evading what? He mentioned their hair, which happened to be nappy. Which it is. Which HE has as well. He's white. What is racist about what he said?
Already dealt with this one on the other thread;
the fact is "nappy" is usually taken by common usage to mean closely kinked hair, not long curly hair, and closely kinked hair is a characteristic of blacks, and in context implies blacks.

The fact that you yourself use the word "nappy" to mean something a bit different does not change the fact of common usage. Deal with it.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Don't be so childishly silly. On two threads now you have had every tiny detail pointed out to you. The fact that you disagree with them does not change the fact that they have been pointed out to you.

Stop lying. You've provided no details. There's only been 3 posts since you made the assertion. You've provided every tiny detail since then? You claim that "History+Society" makes up those rules. Really? Explain how.


Already dealt with this one on the other thread;
the fact is "nappy" is usually taken by common usage to mean closely kinked hair, not long curly hair, and closely kinked hair is a characteristic of blacks, and in context implies blacks.

Liar.

1 : closely twisted or curled
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=Kinky

Many whites (INCLUDING IMUS HIMSELF) has kinky hair!!!


The fact that you yourself use the word "nappy" to mean something a bit different does not change the fact of common usage. Deal with it.

I use it as it's defined. Stop lying.

[Babbylonian]

I'd love to defend Imus because I used to enjoy his show (currently, I don't get up early enough to listen/watch and I choose Stern on Sirius instead). But, this is a long pattern with both him and his sidekicks. Racial slurs, with black people being the most common target, have been common on the show for years (particularly from his producer) and he's only apologized or disciplined underlings when someone pays attention and calls him on it. I don't think it's unreasonable for people to be offended by him on this matter.

Of course, I think that if he was fired for his comments - by either WFAN/Westwood One or MSNBC - that wouldn't be right. Again, he's been doing this for a long time and those companies knew what they were doing every time they offered him a new contract. It would be pretty disingenuous of them to pretend that they actually cared about his racist remarks now, just because it happened to get noticed in the mainstream press.

Then again, if he did get fired it would be a bit of poetic justice since the current remarks were made while on the air with one of his former sports guys who was also fired for making racist remarks (which he claims was a practice encouraged by Imus, and I believe him since I remember the mild in-studio reactions at the time).

[SezMe]

SezSomeone:
I don't know most of the other people on that list but Sharpton stands out to me as one of the most racist "media commentators" there is.

What has Al Sharpton done to deserve this label?

No, it was not SezSomeone, it was me. SezMe. I'll stand by what I wrote. Go here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Sharpton) and read the section "Tawana Brawley Controversy" which is, IMO, improperly named. It is not a "controversy". It is factually true that Sharpton used race to falsely exploit a situation with assertions he knew were false. And to this day, he has never acknowledged, much less apologized, for his actions.

Since that time, he has pushed the race issue whether it was relevant or not. That, by my definition, is racism.

Sharpton is a diversion from this thread. If you want to pursue this matter further, start a new thread.

[Gurdur]

Stop lying. Liar. I use it as it's defined. Stop lying.
Wrong. BTW, you really are a petulant little drama-queen, aren't you?

[SezMe]

Evading what? He mentioned their hair, which happened to be nappy. Which it is. Which HE has as well.

Really?

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1957461b615f39b3d.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=5091)

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Wrong. BTW, you really are a petulant little drama-queen, aren't you?

Cowardly cop out.

1 : closely twisted or curledhttp://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=Kinky

Many whites (INCLUDING IMUS HIMSELF) has kinky hair!!! When I refer to whites with "nappy" hair I clearly am using this definition from Webster.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Really?

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1957461b615f39b3d.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=5091)


It really depends on the day. Here's a recent picture of him with "nappy" hair...

http://www.wsno1450.net/img/imus1.jpg

Here's an older one of him with obviously "nappy" hair...

http://www.imonthe.net/66wnbc/images/don-imus.gif

[Gurdur]

Which part of "closely twisted or curled" do you miserably fail to understand, Dustin?

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Which part of "closely twisted or curled" do you miserably fail to understand, Dustin?


Imus's hair looks pretty damn "Closely twisted and curled" to me. You must need glasses.

[Cain]

Since that time, he has pushed the race issue whether it was relevant or not. That, by my definition, is racism.

And what an interesting definition it is. I still don't see how you've demonstrated Al Sharpton is a racist, let alone "one of the most racist 'media commentators' there is." Also, before clicking on it I noticed I had viewed the link -- a Wikipedia entry, unfortunately. Surely you can do better than this. Also, upon reviewing the page I've noticed it has already been vandalized: Sharpton is called the 'n' word in the first sentence of his biography, and his mother is described as a "nappy headed hoe."

I always hear White Devils (I can say that because I'm white) bitching and complaining about people who want to discuss how racist our society is.

Don Imus' comment was unambiguously misogynistic and racist and you're saying he's either not as racist, or possibly about as racist as Al Sharpton. Admittedly I don't watch a lot of television, but whenever I see Sharpton he always seems tolerant and respectful, particularly with respect to gays and lesbians. Compare with Imus, Limbaugh, Savage, Coulter, and others. Here especially I want to emphasize his role as a talking head because you very specifically criticized him as a media commentator.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

And what an interesting definition it is. I still don't see how you've demonstrated Al Sharpton is a racist, let alone "one of the most racist 'media commentators' there is." Also, before clicking on it I noticed I had viewed the link -- a Wikipedia entry, unfortunately. Surely you can do better than this. Also, upon reviewing the page I've noticed it has already been vandalized: Sharpton is called the 'n' word in the first sentence of his biography, and his mother is described as a "nappy headed hoe."

No doubt fans of his...

I always hear White Devils (I can say that because I'm white) bitching and complaining about people who want to discuss how racist our society is.


No you can't. I'm offended. You're racist! Your speech must be regulated! You must be fired from your job and publicly humiliated!

Don Imus' comment was unambiguously misogynistic and racist and you're saying he's either not as racist, or possibly about as racist as Al Sharpton. Admittedly I don't watch a lot of television, but whenever I see Sharpton he always seems tolerant and respectful, particularly with respect to gays and lesbians. Compare with Imus, Limbaugh, Savage, Coulter, and others. Here especially I want to emphasize his role as a talking head because you very specifically criticized him as a media commentator.

Nothing Imus said was even remotely racist. Stop lying.

[Gurdur]

Imus's hair looks pretty damn "Closely twisted and curled" to me. You must need glasses.

Compare:

http://mud.mm-a7.yimg.com/image/3921626951 with http://www.wsno1450.net/img/imus1.jpg

Which part of "closely twisted or curled" do you miserably fail to understand, Dustin?

But prance around in your weirdly exaggerated outrage some more, Dustin, it's entertaining.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Compare:

http://mud.mm-a7.yimg.com/image/3921626951 with http://www.wsno1450.net/img/imus1.jpg

Which part of "closely twisted or curled" do you miserably fail to understand, Dustin?

But prance around in your weirdly exaggerated outrage some more, Dustin, it's entertaining.

Their hair is "more nappy" than his is...So? How is this an argument that his isn't nappy? His hair is 'less nappy' than other peoples and more nappy than others. So what? His hair is still nappy, based on the definition which says "Closely curled". His current hair is fairly closely curled and his earlier hair was definitely without a doubt closely curled.

[Gurdur]

Their hair is "more nappy" than his is...
Wrong again. According to common usage, one shows nappy hair, Imus is not.

I find it weird but entertaining to see to what extents you go to post your hysterical prancing outrage about Imus being called out for being an offensive jerk. Boy oh boy, Dustin, are you in for a life of disappointment.

[fuelair]

I've also found out that Sharpton once called New York City "Hymie-Town," and had I known that when he did it, I would have spoken out against him as well.

I just have trouble with anyone belittling another race or culture. When I was in the military I met friends of all races and all religions (and many different cultures) who I would have died for. To think that their children or grandchildren would be injured by such hurtful language bothers me greatly. Being a professional mud-mouth isn't any more an excuse than "I was making a joke," or "I just had too much to drink."

Actually, Hymietown was Jackson not Sharpton See:http://kpearson.faculty.tcnj.edu/Dictionary/hymie.htm
2nd definition.

Sharptons' big one was a teenager setting herself up as being assaulted by several people - most of whom were legal/gov't guides who would clearly have had one of the stupidest conspiracies ever to have done it. Sharpton fell for it big time - insisting on their guilt and her truthfulness until long after everyone else knew it was a giant , blatant lie.

[Tricky]

Here's an older one of him with obviously "nappy" hair...

http://www.imonthe.net/66wnbc/images/don-imus.gif
OMG! I think you've spilled the beans, Dustin.

http://www.imonthe.net/66wnbc/images/don-imus.gif http://www.skepsis.nl/geller1.jpg

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Wrong again. According to common usage, one shows nappy hair, Imus is not.

How so? I've proven my point per the DEFINITION. You keep appealing to this so called "common usage" which you haven't proven even exists. Give it up.

I find it weird but entertaining to see to what extents you go to post your hysterical prancing outrage about Imus being called out for being an offensive jerk. Boy oh boy, Dustin, are you in for a life of disappointment.

:confused:

[brodski]

Who made up those rules? they aer basic ruels of English. A phrase can have greater meaning than the sum of the meaning of its words.


Either way. Imus never mentioned their race. He mentioned their attributes, which happened to be nappy hair. Which they have. Which HE has as well. He's white.
Quite, and when conspiracy theorists calls Slievrstien a “hook nosed, international banker- hell bent murder in the name of Zionism” they’re not being anti-Semitic, because they never refer to they fact that he’s Jewish, and hey, they could have a hook nose themselves.

Racists are very good at using coded messages to give their racism “plausible deniability”- this is another such case.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

they aer basic ruels of English. A phrase can have greater meaning than the sum of the meaning of its words.

You're making a sociological argument not a semantical or grammatical argument. I don't see how the "basic ruels(sic) of English" make any difference.


Quite, and when conspiracy theorists calls Slievrstien a “hook nosed, international banker- hell bent murder in the name of Zionism” they’re not being anti-Semitic, because they never refer to they fact that he’s Jewish, and hey, they could have a hook nose themselves.

Using "hook nosed" and "Zionism" in the same sentence means "Jewish". These key words when used together in this sentence and in this context do imply he's referring to a Jew. However in the context of the discussion on the Imus show, it had nothing to do with race.


Racists are very good at using coded messages to give their racism “plausible deniability”- this is another such case.

Do you have any evidence he's racist? This is borderline libel.

[BPSCG]

What a phony setup this whole story is.

Let's get a few things out of the way first. I don't listen to Imus; the few times I've heard him, I've found him to be annoyingly self-congratulatory and gratuitously insulting. But he seems to reserve his venom for public figures, people whose careers put them in the line of fire. Nothing wrong with that, but I don't choose to listen.

This time is different. The girls on the Rutgers basketball team have done nothing more public than to play very good basketball. Calling them "nappy-headed ho's" stepped over the line. Not because it's racist, but because it's gratutitous. He should apologize to them, personally. Last I heard, he asked to do just that, but they don't want to see him, preferring, I guess, their own self-righteous anger.

But as far as everyone else being offended, I think a lot of people need to get over themselves. Rap is a sewer of vile language glorifying the beating, raping, even killing of black "bitches" and "ho's." This has been going on for years.

Yet today, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Barack Obama are upset because Imus said "nappy-haired ho's." Where has their outrage been all these years over rap lyrics? Why doesn't Sharpton picket the record labels that produce this garbage? Why doesn't he call for boycotts of the "artists" involved? Why doesn't he demand a public apology every time some rapper goes off about "slappin' the bitch"?

The hypocrisy here stinks. Black men can deliberately, with malice aforethought, say the vilest things about black women, and nobody troubles himself to even shrug a shoulder. But a white guy allows some ugly words to get to his tongue while the judgement center of his brain is momentarily stuck in neutral, and he must be driven from polite society. Whatever qualifies as "polite society" these days.

Spare me the moral indignation until you can show that your outrage is not simple hypocritical moral posturing.

[Katana]

In all of this, I am left with the question:

WHO GIVES A FLYING FIG WHAT IMUS SAYS ABOUT ANYTHING?

Seriously. His comments may have been tasteless, but, good grief, let's move ON. There are so many more important topics that our glorious news agencies should be focusing on. For example, I'm just stunned that they're not discussing the anticipated release of the Anna Nicole paternity tests today - now that's newsworthy. :rolleyes:

ETA: And what Beeps said.

[CFLarsen]

It made the news today in Denmark, on National Danish Broadcasting.

I liked that they didn't even bother to translate. Apparently, Danes understand the phrase "nappy-headed ho" just fine.

[Gurdur]

...But a white guy allows some ugly words to get to his tongue while the judgement center of his brain is momentarily stuck in neutral, and he must be driven from polite society. Whatever qualifies as "polite society" these days.
Spare me the moral indignation until you can show that your outrage is not simple hypocritical moral posturing.
Oh, the phoney hysteria!

If you want to criticize Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Barack Obama for any real offences, do so.

But stop prancing around with phoney exaggerations like "he must be driven from polite society".. Imus was deliberately offensive, he got slapped down for it, cry me a river and get over yourself, BPSCG. Go right ahead and criticize others if you want to, it still doesn't excuse Imus. Learn some logic, finally.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Yet today, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Barack Obama are upset because Imus said "nappy-haired ho's." Where has their outrage been all these years over rap lyrics? Why doesn't Sharpton picket the record labels that produce this garbage? Why doesn't he call for boycotts of the "artists" involved? Why doesn't he demand a public apology every time some rapper goes off about "slappin' the bitch"?

I can't find any news stories of Obama saying anything about this. Got sources?

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Oh, the phoney hysteria!

If you want to criticize Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Barack Obama for any real offences, do so.

But stop prancing around with phoney exaggerations like "he must be driven from polite society".. Imus was deliberately offensive, he got slapped down for it, cry me a river and get over yourself, BPSCG. Go right ahead and criticize others if you want to, it still doesn't excuse Imus. Learn some logic, finally.

Imus accidentally said something offensive (Not racist, just offensive) and apologized SEVERAL times for it. He was never "slapped down". He was suspended by a cowardly news network who is too afraid to stand up to the ilk of Sharpton or Jackson. That's all.

[Katana]

I can't find any news stories of Obama saying anything about this. Got sources?

Haven't seen much, but there was this:

Obama, who appeared on "Imus in the Morning" last year to promote his memoir, told The Chronicle through a spokesperson: "With a public platform comes a trust. As far as I'm concerned, he violated that trust."

Link (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/04/10/MNGMEP5Q251.DTL)

[Tailgater]

Any chance of getting these threads merged?

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2506401#post2506401

[brodski]

You're making a sociological argument not a semantically or grammatical argument. I don't see how the "basic ruels(sic) of English" make any difference. Language is a sociological construct- the rules of how English is understood means that you can have a phrase (such as "hook nosed evil Zionist") were no single word is racist, but the total meaning of the phrase clearly is. Using a racial a characteristic to qualify an insult makes the whole insult racially based.


Using "hook nosed" and "Zionism" in the same sentence means "Jewish". These key words when used together in this sentence and in this context do imply he's referring to a Jew. However in the context of the discussion on the Imus show, it had nothing to do with race. bollocks, the words "nappy headed" refers to a stereotypical characteristic of black people, the term "ho" is predominantly black American slang- it is exactly the same as calling someone a hook nosed Zionist.

Do you have any evidence he's racist? This is borderline libel.
He called a group of black women "nappy headed ho's", the fact that he claims that this was "accidental" just makes him a careless racist.
If Imus objects he can contact my lawyers.

[Lonewulf]

In all of this, I am left with the question:

WHO GIVES A FLYING FIG WHAT IMUS SAYS ABOUT ANYTHING?

I don't care, I'm just passing the time. :D

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Any chance of getting these threads merged?

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2506401#post2506401


No, My thread is on the topic as a whole. THis thread is specifically Imus.

[brodski]

You're making a sociological argument not a semantically or grammatical argument. I don't see how the "basic ruels(sic) of English" make any difference. Language is a sociological construct- the rules of how English is understood means that you can have a phrase (such as "hook nosed evil Zionist") were no single word is racist, but the total meaning of the phrase clearly is. Using a racial a characteristic to qualify an insult makes the whole insult racially based.


Using "hook nosed" and "Zionism" in the same sentence means "Jewish". These key words when used together in this sentence and in this context do imply he's referring to a Jew. However in the context of the discussion on the Imus show, it had nothing to do with race. bollocks, the words "nappy headed" refers to a stereotypical characteristic of black people, the term "ho" is predominantly black American slang- it is exactly the same as calling someone a hook nosed Zionist.

Do you have any evidence he's racist? This is borderline libel.
He called a group of black women "nappy headed ho's", the fact that he claims that this was "accidental" just makes him a careless racist.
If Imus objects he can contact my lawyers.

[brodski]

You're making a sociological argument not a semantically or grammatical argument. I don't see how the "basic ruels(sic) of English" make any difference. Language is a sociological construct- the rules of how English is understood means that you can have a phrase (such as "hook nosed evil Zionist") were no single word is racist, but the total meaning of the phrase clearly is. Using a racial a characteristic to qualify an insult makes the whole insult racially based.


Using "hook nosed" and "Zionism" in the same sentence means "Jewish". These key words when used together in this sentence and in this context do imply he's referring to a Jew. However in the context of the discussion on the Imus show, it had nothing to do with race. bollocks, the words "nappy headed" refers to a stereotypical characteristic of black people, the term "ho" is predominantly black American slang- it is exactly the same as calling someone a hook nosed Zionist.

Do you have any evidence he's racist? This is borderline libel.
He called a group of black women "nappy headed ho's", the fact that he claims that this was "accidental" just makes him a careless racist.
If Imus objects he can contact my lawyers.

[brodski]

You're making a sociological argument not a semantically or grammatical argument. I don't see how the "basic ruels(sic) of English" make any difference. Language is a sociological construct- the rules of how English is understood means that you can have a phrase (such as "hook nosed evil Zionist") were no single word is racist, but the total meaning of the phrase clearly is. Using a racial a characteristic to qualify an insult makes the whole insult racially based.


Using "hook nosed" and "Zionism" in the same sentence means "Jewish". These key words when used together in this sentence and in this context do imply he's referring to a Jew. However in the context of the discussion on the Imus show, it had nothing to do with race. bollocks, the words "nappy headed" refers to a stereotypical characteristic of black people, the term "ho" is predominantly black American slang- it is exactly the same as calling someone a hook nosed Zionist.

Do you have any evidence he's racist? This is borderline libel.
He called a group of black women "nappy headed ho's", the fact that he claims that this was "accidental" just makes him a careless racist.
If Imus objects he can contact my lawyers.

[brodski]

You're making a sociological argument not a semantically or grammatical argument. I don't see how the "basic ruels(sic) of English" make any difference. Language is a sociological construct- the rules of how English is understood means that you can have a phrase (such as "hook nosed evil Zionist") were no single word is racist, but the total meaning of the phrase clearly is. Using a racial a characteristic to qualify an insult makes the whole insult racially based.


Using "hook nosed" and "Zionism" in the same sentence means "Jewish". These key words when used together in this sentence and in this context do imply he's referring to a Jew. However in the context of the discussion on the Imus show, it had nothing to do with race. bollocks, the words "nappy headed" refers to a stereotypical characteristic of black people, the term "ho" is predominantly black American slang- it is exactly the same as calling someone a hook nosed Zionist.

Do you have any evidence he's racist? This is borderline libel.
He called a group of black women "nappy headed ho's", the fact that he claims that this was "accidental" just makes him a careless racist.
If Imus objects he can contact my lawyers.

[Mephisto]

Many whites (INCLUDING IMUS HIMSELF) has kinky hair!!! When I refer to whites with "nappy" hair I clearly am using this definition from Webster.

Apparently you didn't see this on the first page of the thread:

I just walked over and consulted the advice of two guys I work with. Apparently, nappy is a racial slur when used by a white person because white people don't have nappy hair.

Corplinx consulted two black friends/co-workers to find this out. Are you going to call him a liar, or claim that the two African-Americans he spoke to are wrong about slurs directed at their race?

[brodski]

You're making a sociological argument not a semantically or grammatical argument. I don't see how the "basic ruels(sic) of English" make any difference. Language is a sociological construct- the rules of how English is understood means that you can have a phrase (such as "hook nosed evil Zionist") were no single word is racist, but the total meaning of the phrase clearly is. Using a racial a characteristic to qualify an insult makes the whole insult racially based.


Using "hook nosed" and "Zionism" in the same sentence means "Jewish". These key words when used together in this sentence and in this context do imply he's referring to a Jew. However in the context of the discussion on the Imus show, it had nothing to do with race. bollocks, the words "nappy headed" refers to a stereotypical characteristic of black people, the term "ho" is predominantly black American slang- it is exactly the same as calling someone a hook nosed Zionist.

Do you have any evidence he's racist? This is borderline libel.
He called a group of black women "nappy headed ho's", the fact that he claims that this was "accidental" just makes him a careless racist.
If Imus objects he can contact my lawyers.

[TheJim]

How can anyone say what Imus said as anything but racist. Here is the context in which he made the comments.

IMUS: So, I watched the basketball game last night between -- a little bit of Rutgers and Tennessee, the women's final.

ROSENBERG: Yeah, Tennessee won last night -- seventh championship for [Tennessee coach] Pat Summitt, I-Man. They beat Rutgers by 13 points.

IMUS: That's some rough girls from Rutgers. Man, they got tattoos and --

McGUIRK: Some hard-core hos.

IMUS: That's some nappy-headed hos there. I'm gonna tell you that now, man, that's some -- woo. And the girls from Tennessee, they all look cute, you know, so, like -- kinda like -- I don't know.

McGUIRK: A Spike Lee thing.

IMUS: Yeah.

McGUIRK: The Jigaboos vs. the Wannabes -- that movie that he had.

IMUS: Yeah, it was a tough --

McCORD: Do The Right Thing.

McGUIRK: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

IMUS: I don't know if I'd have wanted to beat Rutgers or not, but they did, right?

His producer clearly makes mention of race by bringing up Spike Lee, Ho is word historically used to refer to African American hookers, Nappy in this context does mean african American hair.

[hgc]

This time is different. The girls on the Rutgers basketball team have done nothing more public than to play very good basketball. Calling them "nappy-headed ho's" stepped over the line. Not because it's racist, but because it's gratutitous. He should apologize to them, personally. Last I heard, he asked to do just that, but they don't want to see him, preferring, I guess, their own self-righteous anger.


As you said, all the only public thing they did was play very good basketball. So why then is their refusal to meet with Imus in order to lend credence to his attempts at contrition self-righteous. Imus made his own mess. They're under no obligation to help him clean it up. Nice job turning the tables on the victims though. You should go on Imus and tell him that you think he's a swell guy underneath it all.

[TheJim]

How can anyone say what Imus said as anything but racist. Here is the context in which he made the comments.

IMUS: So, I watched the basketball game last night between -- a little bit of Rutgers and Tennessee, the women's final.

ROSENBERG: Yeah, Tennessee won last night -- seventh championship for [Tennessee coach] Pat Summitt, I-Man. They beat Rutgers by 13 points.

IMUS: That's some rough girls from Rutgers. Man, they got tattoos and --

McGUIRK: Some hard-core hos.

IMUS: That's some nappy-headed hos there. I'm gonna tell you that now, man, that's some -- woo. And the girls from Tennessee, they all look cute, you know, so, like -- kinda like -- I don't know.

McGUIRK: A Spike Lee thing.

IMUS: Yeah.

McGUIRK: The Jigaboos vs. the Wannabes -- that movie that he had.

IMUS: Yeah, it was a tough --

McCORD: Do The Right Thing.

McGUIRK: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

IMUS: I don't know if I'd have wanted to beat Rutgers or not, but they did, right?

His producer clearly makes mention of race by bringing up Spike Lee, Ho is word historically used to refer to African American hookers, Nappy in this context does mean african American hair.

[headscratcher4]

Imus accidentally said something offensive (Not racist, just offensive) and apologized SEVERAL times for it. He was never "slapped down". He was suspended by a cowardly news network who is too afraid to stand up to the ilk of Sharpton or Jackson. That's all.


"Nappy headed ho..." not racist? How do you figure? Of course it was racist. It wasn't funny but it was racist. There is no other way to look at "nappy headed" and "ho" together in the same breath.

He's done it before. Read Gwen Ifil's thoughtful piece in today's NYTimes (registration required).

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/10/opinion/10ifill.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

When she didn't want to play his juvinile frat boy radio game, he called her a cleaning woman.

I don't think he should be fired, but the sort of "bad-boy" can't control what comes out of his mouth stuff is full of Cr*p. It suggests to me that very racists images are not too far below his surface.

The sad part isn't that he said it. The sad part is that he has an audience at all.

[headscratcher4]

Imus accidentally said something offensive (Not racist, just offensive) and apologized SEVERAL times for it. He was never "slapped down". He was suspended by a cowardly news network who is too afraid to stand up to the ilk of Sharpton or Jackson. That's all.


"Nappy headed ho..." not racist? How do you figure? Of course it was racist. It wasn't funny but it was racist. There is no other way to look at "nappy headed" and "ho" together in the same breath.

He's done it before. Read Gwen Ifil's thoughtful piece in today's NYTimes (registration required).

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/10/opinion/10ifill.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

When she didn't want to play his juvinile frat boy radio game, he called her a cleaning woman.

I don't think he should be fired, but the sort of "bad-boy" can't control what comes out of his mouth stuff is full of Cr*p. It suggests to me that very racists images are not too far below his surface.

The sad part isn't that he said it. The sad part is that he has an audience at all.

[Mephisto]

Sorry - this was a double-post.

[Katana]

I don't care, I'm just passing the time. :D

Thanks, Lonewulf.

:p

[pgwenthold]

In all of this, I am left with the question:

WHO GIVES A FLYING FIG WHAT IMUS SAYS ABOUT ANYTHING?

Seriously.

Seriously?

That's pretty easy for you to say when you aren't part of the stereotype. Especially given the role that discrimination against those who are included in the stereotype has played in our society.

Of course, Imus is one thing, but no one has commented on this guy McGuirk calling them "jigaboos"? How does that guy keep his job at all?

[corplinx]

Corplinx consulted two black friends/co-workers to find this out. Are you going to call him a liar, or claim that the two African-Americans he spoke to are wrong about slurs directed at their race?

I didn't say I agreed with them. The list of things we can't say gets longer every year. One of these days the Friar's Club will be outlawed for violating thought police statutes.

This whole "yes we sit around making fun of John's Nappy Hurr but if you do its racist" stuff is getting tiresome. The ability to arbitrarily decide what is racist and ruin someone's career scares me.

[BPSCG]

As you said, all the only public thing they did was play very good basketball. So why then is their refusal to meet with Imus in order to lend credence to his attempts at contrition self-righteous. They're under no obligation to; he committed the offense, not they. But is expressing a desire to apologize personally necessarily an attempt "to lend credence to his attempts at contrition"? Do you reject the possibility that it's genuine? Imus at least had the guts to make an actual apology, saying that he had done wrong; he didn't use that tired, phony non-apology construct people so often use: "I'm sorry that you were offended..." He did not try to put the blame on the basketball players. If he had, I wouldn't blame them for not wanting to meet him.

Nice job turning the tables on the victims though. You should go on Imus and tell him that you think he's a swell guy underneath it all.You should read my earlier post to see what I really think of him.

[Mephisto]

Many whites (INCLUDING IMUS HIMSELF) has kinky hair!!! When I refer to whites with "nappy" hair I clearly am using this definition from Webster.

Apparently you didn't see this on the first page of the thread:

I just walked over and consulted the advice of two guys I work with. Apparently, nappy is a racial slur when used by a white person because white people don't have nappy hair.

Corplinx consulted two black friends/co-workers to find this out. Are you going to call him a liar, or claim that the two African-Americans he spoke to are wrong about slurs directed at their race?

[hgc]

They're under no obligation to; he committed the offense, not they. But is expressing a desire to apologize personally necessarily an attempt "to lend credence to his attempts at contrition"? Do you reject the possibility that it's genuine? Imus at least had the guts to make an actual apology, saying that he had done wrong; he didn't use that tired, phony non-apology construct people so often use: "I'm sorry that you were offended..." He did not try to put the blame on the basketball players. If he had, I wouldn't blame them for not wanting to meet him.

You should read my earlier post to see what I really think of him.


Fine, Imus made a real apology. You still haven't explained why the Rutgers girls' refusal to meet with him means they "[prefer] ... their own self-righteous anger." I think this is a ill-considered remark on your part, and I'd give you a lot of credit if you were to retract it.

[Tailgater]

I didn't say I agreed with them. The list of things we can't say gets longer every year. One of these days the Friar's Club will be outlawed for violating thought police statutes.

This whole "yes we sit around making fun of John's Nappy Hurr but if you do its racist" stuff is getting tiresome. The ability to arbitrarily decide what is racist and ruin someone's career scares me.

As long as I've been on this planet, nappyhead and ho have always been insulting and not new to the list.

It is sad that this story and baby Anna Nicole are half of the news today.

[pgwenthold]

I didn't say I agreed with them. The list of things we can't say gets longer every year.

I gotta admit, taking "nappy-headed hos" off the list of "things we can say" really doesn't affect the vocabulary I use very much. YMMV.

[TheJim]

I didn't say I agreed with them. The list of things we can't say gets longer every year. One of these days the Friar's Club will be outlawed for violating thought police statutes.

This whole "yes we sit around making fun of John's Nappy Hurr but if you do its racist" stuff is getting tiresome. The ability to arbitrarily decide what is racist and ruin someone's career scares me.

Last time i checked Imus was not arrested. Hell, he has not even lost his job the only thing he has done is apologize and get suspeneded from a simicast for 2 whole weeks starting next week.

And i see where you are coming from i mean **** who gets to decide if calling someone a nappy haired ho with too many tatoos in a discussion with someone saying jigaboos and referancing spike lee is racist? Until i was told by Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson to be offended i would have never thought that to be racisit.

[hgc]

I didn't say I agreed with them. The list of things we can't say gets longer every year. One of these days the Friar's Club will be outlawed for violating thought police statutes.

This whole "yes we sit around making fun of John's Nappy Hurr but if you do its racist" stuff is getting tiresome. The ability to arbitrarily decide what is racist and ruin someone's career scares me.


I would think that calling a womens basketball team "nappy-headed hos" was just as unacceptable long ago as it is today ... not some johnny-come-lately violation of PC manners. How recently do you think it came to be added to the list of no-nos?

[Katana]

Seriously?

Yes.

That's pretty easy for you to say when you aren't part of the stereotype. Especially given the role that discrimination against those who are included in the stereotype has played in our society.


That's pretty easy for me to say because I just don't care what he thinks. Listening to the drivel that Imus spews is a waste of time, and this instance is no exception. He could have made disparaging remarks about women athletes or women in general (groups to which I belong - well, I used to be more athletic, but that's not the point ;)), and I would feel the same.

The media frenzy over this is baffling to me. You have activists, minority groups, Al Roker all calling for his resignation. He's apologizing left and right. Now his show has been suspended for two weeks. Good grief.

I would have preferred that people just turned him off for good, showing him (and his sponsors) just how irrelevant he is.

Of course, Imus is one thing, but no one has commented on this guy McGuirk calling them "jigaboos"? How does that guy keep his job at all?


I have to admit that I wondered about that one.

[Tailgater]

From the other thread:

Imus might not be a racist, but the comment was. You can split hairs over the specific definition of "nappy", but it is meant to be an insult. Blacks call other blacks nappy when their hair is unclean and pressed down in a tight fashion past small curls. Other races use nappyhead as racist slang. I usually hear it from hillbillys named Bobby Jo. Ho is used to call a woman a whore or slut. You call a woman a "ho" out of disrespect. If you use these terms together and think it's OK and no big deal, you are either ignorant or a racist womanizer.

[Donal]

An 80 year old AM talk host made offensive comments about a women's basketball team that lost the championship. How irrelevent can we get?

Honetly though, everybody needs to grow up and turn the sensetivity down a notch.

Imus made horrible comments about those girls. Not just because of the race issue or anything, but because they were viscious, personal attacks. He should have to appologize.

The girls need to get over it. They are grown women who have no issue with a national spotlight when being complimented. Take the good with the bad. The reports of them high-fiving when they heard of his suspension are pathetic.

Whiny white people crying about not being able to make racial jokes, shaddup. I still make them and don't appologize. People don't come after me over it because 1) its obviously a joke 2) I take as good as I give 3) I won't back down when confronted about it. If you need to feel better, go inquire about a mortgage.

Whiny white people trying to tell black people when to be outraged: bite me. Saying Rev Al speaks for black people is a racist comment. Its a generalization about a race. He was never elected to any office. He just shows up at events and inserts himself. Oh, and unless they just immigrated from Africa, they aren't African Americans, they are black.

Rev Al and all the black activists: I'll happily march on Imus' studio with you as long as the next stop is at Def Jam records, Hot 97 studios or any of the other places that play music that has black men calling black women "nappy headed hos" (probably where Imus picked it up) and things that are much worse. We'll throw in MTV studios if you want. Of course, we don't have to discuss why you are spending so much energy on this rather than the inequalities in justice, education and economics.

[TheJim]

Fine, Imus made a real apology. You still haven't explained why the Rutgers girls' refusal to meet with him means they "[prefer] ... their own self-righteous anger." I think this is a ill-considered remark on your part, and I'd give you a lot of credit if you were to retract it.

I am calling into question Imus real apology. I just caught a bit of the today show where he is now trying to blame rap culture for also calling women ho's and bitching about Al Sharpton not being a man for not going Imus's show. To me at least a real apology does not include profiting off your own mistake.

[Donal]

Because Imus owes the Rutgers Women's Basketball team an appology. Not Rev Al, who hammered him on the radio. And not all the black people in the US.

[hgc]

I am calling into question Imus real apology. I just caught a bit of the today show where he is now trying to blame rap culture for also calling women ho's and bitching about Al Sharpton not being a man for not going Imus's show. To me at least a real apology does not include profiting off your own mistake.


For the sake of my exchange with BP, I am willing to stipulate that it's a real apology. Since the contents of Imus' heart are unknowable to me, and perhaps to Imus himself, I'll not venture an opinion at this time about his sincerity. Of course I reserve the right to judge his sincerity based on other statements he makes in connection to this matter (as you have).

[hgc]

The girls need to get over it. They are grown women who have no issue with a national spotlight when being complimented. Take the good with the bad. The reports of them high-fiving when they heard of his suspension are pathetic.


They shouldn't be happy that the guy that insulted them got into trouble for it? You sure are busy telling a certain group of black people how to feel.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Which part of "closely twisted or curled" do you miserably fail to understand, Dustin?

Don't be so hard on Dustin. His 6th grade English class hasn't covered that material yet.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

When black rappers call black women "ho's" and "n*****s" and "tramps", where are Sharpton and Jackson? Do they demand that their records labels drop them? No? Instructive.

[TheJim]

For the sake of my exchange with BP, I am willing to stipulate that it's a real apology. Since the contents of Imus' heart are unknowable to me, and perhaps to Imus himself, I'll not venture an opinion at this time about his sincerity. Of course I reserve the right to judge his sincerity based on other statements he makes in connection to this matter (as you have).

My comment was not exactly aimed at you, but I just say that segment on the Today show moments before i posted and your message seemed like a good way to bring it up.

[TheJim]

I want to make a comment to everyone that keeps saying that Imus is irrelevant and just an entertainer. He is a prominent member of the press since his show is MSNBC and he has on politicians and reporters regularly. He did not say this in a mocking tone say ala John Stewart either.

[pgwenthold]

They shouldn't be happy that the guy that insulted them got into trouble for it? You sure are busy telling a certain group of black people how to feel.


There's that old saying about walking a mile in someone else's shoes. However, I came to the conclusion a few years ago that when it comes to black people, I can't even get their shoes on my feet in the first place. I cannot comprehend their perspective in the least.

However, more importantly, I recognize this fact, and therefore, don't try to pretend that I can. I certainly don't presume to tell black people how they should or shouldn't respond to racist remarks.

Two things:
1) Black Like Me was written at a different time. It would be interesting to try the experiment again today.
2) I'm curious how this issue is being discussed at the African-American discussion boards. Is it anything like how it is being discussed here?

[hgc]

My comment was not exactly aimed at you, but I just say that segment on the Today show moments before i posted and your message seemed like a good way to bring it up.


Your point is well taken too. I would ask Imus: was it the wrong thing to say, or not? If so, then why are you trying to drag a whole bunch of exculpatory evidence into the picture. Did you not know it was wrong before? Did you not know because this is common parlance in black culture? Seems to me, the more he tries to explain by pointing to other examples of this usage, the more he's trying to insulate himself from responsibility. He really would do himself a lot better service if he'd apologize and drop it. If he wants to keep his job, he'd be better off ignoring those people who demand he be fired, rather than trying to turn the potential hypocracy of their criticism into the issue. All it ends up looking like is that he's trying to deflect criticism, which is contrary to the terms of a genuine apology.

[Mephisto]

The list of things we can't say gets longer every year. One of these days the Friar's Club will be outlawed for violating thought police statutes.

You mean, "the list of things White people can't say on the air or in public regarding their racial stereotypes of minorities gets longer every year." Maybe it's because minorities are getting tired of it?

This whole "yes we sit around making fun of John's Nappy Hurr but if you do its racist" stuff is getting tiresome. The ability to arbitrarily decide what is racist and ruin someone's career scares me.

I don't think it was arbitrarily decided simply because you didn't know of its existence as a racist remark. As for ruining someone's career, how often do African-American, Hispanic, Jewish or Asian public personalities make these kind of mistakes? Maybe they're just more "in-tune" to what actually constitutes racism.

[hgc]

The ability to arbitrarily decide what is racist and ruin someone's career scares me.


If it's merely arbitrary, then why is Imus so profusely apologetic? Doesn't he know he's being railroaded?

[corplinx]

You mean, "the list of things White people can't say on the air or in public regarding their racial stereotypes of minorities gets longer every year." Maybe it's because minorities are getting tired of it?


I halfway expected this kind of response (because your posting style is pretty predictable and rarely deviates). Let me just mentor you a little.

White people don't go around calling black people nappy headed as a slur!

Making fun of someone's nappiness is a black thing! Its part of the black on black hazing process.

There isn't some backlash going on about white people calling blacks nappy headed and the blacks finally doing something about it.

This whole thing is *********.

[corplinx]

If it's merely arbitrary, then why is Imus so profusely apologetic? Doesn't he know he's being railroaded?

When someone gets smacked with the racist label, they tend to backpedal profusely and try to salvage their reputation and career.

Do you expect him to act differently? Tell me you don't actually believe him being apologetic is significant of anything other than desperately trying to keep his head about water.

[BPSCG]

He really would do himself a lot better service if he'd apologize and drop it. If he wants to keep his job, he'd be better off ignoring those people who demand he be fired, rather than trying to turn the potential hypocracy of their criticism into the issue. All it ends up looking like is that he's trying to deflect criticism, which is contrary to the terms of a genuine apology.Agreed. Heard someone today say "the longer he keeps apologizing, the better his chances of getting fired."

Doubling back to my comment about the Rutgers girls' "self-righteous anger," I'll stipulate that calling it "self-righteous" was saying more than I knew, since I hadn't heard anything from them about why they'd refused to meet with Imus (and no, I'm not going to apologize for it...). That having been said, if they truly find his remarks so disgusting, I have to ask if they have been at the forefront of getting rappers to clean up their lyrics? If not, then this is nothing more than another sanctimonious "Let's punish ugly white speech, but not ugly black speech" episode (viz. George Allen, Michael Richards, Joe Biden). There will be more.

[hgc]

Agreed. Heard someone today say "the longer he keeps apologizing, the better his chances of getting fired."

Doubling back to my comment about the Rutgers girls' "self-righteous anger," I'll stipulate that calling it "self-righteous" was saying more than I knew, since I hadn't heard anything from them about why they'd refused to meet with Imus (and no, I'm not going to apologize for it...). That having been said, if they truly find his remarks so disgusting, I have to ask if they have been at the forefront of getting rappers to clean up their lyrics? If not, then this is nothing more than another sanctimonious "Let's punish ugly white speech, but not ugly black speech" episode (viz. George Allen, Michael Richards, Joe Biden). There will be more.


Have any rappers specifically targeted the Rutgers Womens basketball team?

[Tailgater]

White people don't go around calling black people nappy headed as a slur!

Yes, where I live, they most definitely do.

Making fun of someone's nappiness is a black thing! Its part of the black on black hazing process.


Huh? Wha?

[hgc]

When someone gets smacked with the racist label, they tend to backpedal profusely and try to salvage their reputation and career.

Do you expect him to act differently? Tell me you don't actually believe him being apologetic is significant of anything other than desperately trying to keep his head about water.


As I said above, I don't know if his apology is sincere or expedient or both in whatever combination. Why don't you give him a little more credit that he truly realized he'd done something wrong, as he says he did? You seem to think that just because, in your opinion, the charge is specious, then Imus must be pretending to be apologetic. I don't know how you know this.

[Donal]

They shouldn't be happy that the guy that insulted them got into trouble for it? You sure are busy telling a certain group of people how they appear to the public.

fixed that for you.

[hgc]

fixed that for you.


Thanks, but it was fine the way it was. If you have something to say that you can stand behind, perhaps you'll put the words in your own mouth, and not mine.

[Tailgater]

fixed that for you.

Have the courtesy of showing what you fixed before I link this to the "fixed it for you" thread.:D

[Donal]

Thanks, but it was fine the way it was. If you have something to say that you can stand behind, perhaps you'll put the words in your own mouth, and not mine.

As soon as you extend me the courtesy of not trying to twist my words. Thanks so much.

[TheJim]

I halfway expected this kind of response (because your posting style is pretty predictable and rarely deviates). Let me just mentor you a little.

White people don't go around calling black people nappy headed as a slur!

Making fun of someone's nappiness is a black thing! Its part of the black on black hazing process.

There isn't some backlash going on about white people calling blacks nappy headed and the blacks finally doing something about it.

This whole thing is *********.

Are you kidding me? I have heard too many racisit jokes where the punchline is nappy hair.

[hgc]

As soon as you extend me the courtesy of not trying to twist my words. Thanks so much.

The girls need to get over it. They are grown women who have no issue with a national spotlight when being complimented. Take the good with the bad. The reports of them high-fiving when they heard of his suspension are pathetic.


Is this not telling them how to feel? You are full of crap. Thanks again.

[Katana]

Well, according to MSNBC.com, the Rutgers team has agreed to meet with Imus.

[Donal]

Is this not telling them how to feel? You are full of crap. Thanks again.

No, because I don't address their emotions, merely their actions.

I agree what Imus said was horrible and he should appologize. They also have the right not to accept it.

But high fiving as if they won something (granted its been a while since they have won something) is a little over the top and makes them look petty. It also gives comments like his more power than they should have.

They know they are in the public spotlight and they continue to do what got them there. This isn't the worst thing said about female basketball players by media personalities.

[BPSCG]

Have any rappers specifically targeted the Rutgers Womens basketball team?Well, if you're going to take the position that nobody need be upset over hateful, demeaning, misogynistic public speech until they become the specific target, I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree.

[hgc]

Well, if you're going to take the position that nobody need be upset over hateful, demeaning, misogynistic public speech until they become the specific target, I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree.


Yes, if I were to take that position, you probably would disagree. Keep an eye out for it. You never know what kinds of kooky things I'll say.

Back to reality: You and I have no idea what these women have felt or said about rap lyrics in the past. The only reason we're cognizant of them in relation to this issue is because of the way that Imus called attention to them. So I don't understand why "[you] have to ask if they have been at the forefront of getting rappers to clean up their lyrics." If the Rutgers Womens basketball team had been targeted by rappers in a public way before, then we would all have an ear open to how the Rutgers Womens basketball team had reacted. Barring that, they were just another of hundreds of womens college basketball teams, among thousands of black woman college athletes. How could they predict that one day Imus would mock them specifically in such a public fashion so that they could get to the forefront of criticizing rappers so as to head off your insinuation? Hmmm?

[hgc]

Well, according to MSNBC.com, the Rutgers team has agreed to meet with Imus.


They threw him a lifeline. Lucky for Imus. I can only hope that there are no TV cameras to record it.

[Katana]

They threw him a lifeline. Lucky for Imus. I can only hope that there are no TV cameras to record it.

Evidently, it is to be a private meeting (as it should be).

[TheJim]

Well, if you're going to take the position that nobody need be upset over hateful, demeaning, misogynistic public speech until they become the specific target, I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree.

This makes no sense in practice. This means that everyone that supported the war in Afgainstain need to shut up because I was calling for an invasion in 1999 after learning about the conditions under the Taliban. Or, if you are not for war against Iraq you can't be for war in the Sudan.

[BPSCG]

Uh-oh... (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/10/AR2007041000656.html?hpid=topnews)
The women's basketball Coach C. Vivian Stringer blasted Imus for his comments and said the team members are "young ladies of class, distinction. They are articulate..."Hope she's working on her apology.

[hgc]

Uh-oh... (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/10/AR2007041000656.html?hpid=topnews)
Hope she's working on her apology.


Hey, maybe some of them are on the debate team too. ;)

[BPSCG]

Yes, if I were to take that position, you probably would disagree. Keep an eye out for it. You never know what kinds of kooky things I'll say.True; you never cease to surprise me...:rolleyes:
Back to reality: Nitpick. For you to get "back to reality," you had to have actually been there at one time...:rolleyes: (you're giving me all kinds of material to work with today - thanks!)
You and I have no idea what these women have felt or said about rap lyrics in the past. That is correct. You did notice the I used the word "if," right?

So I don't understand why "[you] have to ask if they have been at the forefront of getting rappers to clean up their lyrics." If the Rutgers Womens basketball team had been targeted by rappers in a public way before, then we would all have an ear open to how the Rutgers Womens basketball team had reacted. Barring that, they were just another of hundreds of womens college basketball teams, among thousands of black woman college athletes. How could they predict that one day Imus would mock them specifically in such a public fashion so that they could get to the forefront of criticizing rappers so as to head off your insinuation? Hmmm?Okay, so I guess you are saying they had no reason to object to ugly rapper lyrics as long as they weren't the specific targets. I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Uh-oh... (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/10/AR2007041000656.html?hpid=topnews)
Hope she's working on her apology.

She should be. But something tells me she won't have to.

[hgc]

Okay, so I guess you are saying they had no reason to object to ugly rapper lyrics as long as they weren't the specific targets. I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.


No, no, no, no, no. Am I really that inarticulate? Or is the problem on the receiving end?

You feel you have to ask if they have been at the forefront of criticizing rappers' lyrics. I don't know why you have to ask this. Until 3 days ago, these women had no public platform for anything but playing basketball -- certainly not socio-political issues like we are discussing now. Now that they've been dragged into a public sh|tstorm by the actions of a prominent media figure, you seem to think its incumbent on them to have publicly objected before if they're going to publicly object now. Or what did you mean by "at the forefront?"

[slingblade]

I halfway expected this kind of response (because your posting style is pretty predictable and rarely deviates). Let me just mentor you a little.

White people don't go around calling black people nappy headed as a slur!

Haven't spent much time in Georgia, as I have, have you?

Haven't had the "privilege" of hearing a sweet little 8-year-old white child refuse to "play with that nappy-headed nigra ever again!" have you? In the 1990s, no less, not the 1890s.

Making fun of someone's nappiness is a black thing! Its part of the black on black hazing process.

Yes. It emerged from slavery. From the social rejection of those whose mothers were raped by their white owners, producing children who weren't "as black" as those whose parents were both slaves. One couldn't very well lash out at the white owners, for obvious reasons, so the anger was turned against the children, who were blameless, but also not in a position to have you lynched.

I assume you've heard the phrase "the darker the berry, the sweeter the juice?" If not, look it up sometime. Especially its origins....

There isn't some backlash going on about white people calling blacks nappy headed and the blacks finally doing something about it.

This whole thing is *********.

No. This backlash has been going on for quite some time now. No one, I'd venture to say, is naive enough to think the issue either begins or ends with this particular incident.

[fuelair]

From the other thread:

Imus might not be a racist, but the comment was. You can split hairs over the specific definition of "nappy", but it is meant to be an insult. Blacks call other blacks nappy when their hair is unclean and pressed down in a tight fashion past small curls. Other races use nappyhead as racist slang. I usually hear it from hillbillys named Bobby Jo. Ho is used to call a woman a whore or slut. You call a woman a "ho" out of disrespect. If you use these terms together and think it's OK and no big deal, you are either ignorant or a racist womanizer.Or. as I like to say "rule8ing rule8hole"! But, then, I'm polite.:)

[BPSCG]

So when is the JREF autocensor going to start turning "nappy" into "*****"?

[Darth Rotor]

Uh-oh... (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/10/AR2007041000656.html?hpid=topnews)
Hope she's working on her apology.

This has scarred me for life," Matee Ajavon, a junior guard from Newark, said of Imus's comments, which have renewed a national debate on race relations and the role media figures can play in dividing and unifying people
Who taught her to say this? What tort attorney is involved in this press conference?

I don't blame her, or her teammates, for being mightily pissed at Imus. Why then the appeal to over-the-top victimhood?

Stand up and be counted.

DR

[corplinx]

Haven't spent much time in Georgia, as I have, have you?


No, I live in the Memphis area. I grew up here in the white minority but in the black parts of town. I can honestly say that I've never heard a white person use it as a racial slur. And believe me, I've heard some of the meanest most vulgar racist language ever.

As I child, the church we went to had many families leave over a black man becoming a deacon. I heard many colorful racist terms thrown around (at church no less) describing Deacon Jones (doesn't this show how morally bankrupt these places really were btw?).

There is a difference between someone adding nappy to a slur and nappy being a slur. Even the word "black" is a slur if you treat it the same.

This is much ado about nothing. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. If I get called a narrow-ass cowlicked whitey its funny. My butt is nonexistant and my hair gets cowlicks. These terms don't imply that I am an inferior human being because of my race (at least in the non-butt areas). Therefore it is not racist.

[slingblade]

This is much ado about nothing. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. If I get called a narrow-ass cowlicked whitey its funny. My butt is nonexistant and my hair gets cowlicks. These terms don't imply that I am an inferior human being because of my race (at least in the non-butt areas). Therefore it is not racist.

We disagree.

ETA: I won't waste time trying to explain how or in what way. I do, eventually, learn my lessons.

[hgc]

I heard many colorful racist terms thrown around (at church no less) describing Deacon Jones (doesn't this show how morally bankrupt these places really were btw?).


You attended church with Deacon Jones!?!? Wow!

[BPSCG]

Damn you to hell, hgc!

[BPSCG]

When I take over, I'm going to appoint Carlos Mencia as my national arbiter of race relations.

[Mephisto]

I challenge anyone who believe that "nappy-headed" ISN'T a racial slur to go up to a group of African-American men and loudly exclaim, "So, how are you nappy-headed fellows today?"

When you're released from the Emergency Room, come back and defend your position.

[hgc]

Damn you to hell, hgc!


The quick and the dead. :p

[corplinx]

I challenge anyone who believe that "nappy-headed" ISN'T a racial slur to go up to a group of African-American men and loudly exclaim, "So, how are you nappy-headed fellows today?"

When you're released from the Emergency Room, come back and defend your position.

I think you don't understand the difference between insulting and racist. Or maybe you do but are being intentionally ignorant to support your initial position.

[rikzilla]

Racist slips o' the tongue....
...so easy a nappy-headed caveman could do it!

http://www.johnlehr.com/images/caveman5.jpg

Humans are of course tribal. Racism, intolerant religions, war, etc are just some of the not-so-lovely things to stem from this fact. The fact is that we all simply love the "our tribe's better than your tribe" mindset. We seem to be wired that way. Isn't this why the Geico Cavemen are so successful? Isn't it just Racism with a little (r) that we can all laugh at without needing rehab? Isn't that what blond, hillbilly, polish, or Aggie jokes are really all about??

Imus isn't the problem, he's just a symptom, he has an audience...a demographic that actually thinks he's a wit...there's your problem. for the rest of us, well we'll keep laughing at the "cavemen" because we all know who they're really talking about right?

-z

[bigred]

To say this whole thing was RIDICULOUSLY overblown doesn't begin to describe it. They just had a freaking LONG-ass PRESS CONFERENCE with the Rutger team. What the f???? What the hell for?? How much can you make a non-story into a world crisis??

I have disgust beyond belief for the hypocritical a-hole Sharpton, this whiny team, and anyone else who thinks this is actually an issue. Boo hoo, a DJ called us a name. He's a meanie. Fire him, jail him, shoot him dead. Mommy mommy. Tito stop teasing.

:boggled:

Just when you think this country can't take PCness to new depths of stupidity....

I'm now an Imus backer, just out of spite.

[hgc]

I'm now an Imus backer, just out of spite.


You might want to investigate what you're backing. Aside from all this controversy, Imus does some suck-ass radio. You'd be better off sticking to your morning zoo.

[corplinx]

You might want to investigate what you're backing. Aside from all this controversy, Imus does some suck-ass radio. You'd be better off sticking to your morning zoo.

I think that part of the problem. This wasn't Katie Couric. This was Don Friggin "Where Is He Now?" Imus.

Michael Richards: Former Somebody, Current Nobody, Made a Vicious Lynching Reference similar to Greaseman

Don Imus: Former Somebody in Some Radio Markets, Current Nobody, made a light hearted rib

[bigred]

How would you feel if you were that team? How would you feel if you were those girl's mothers/fathers and family.Exactly the same way I felt before, ie DJs are practically by definition (and pointedly) a-holes. Imus, Stern, "Greaseman," ad nauseum. Their job is to be obnoxious slime. Sadly, our society eats it up.

He shouldn't be fired. He should, however, have to meet these young ladies and try to explain to them his humor, why it was funny, what is so funny about their loss, their play, their efforts, etc.? wtf?? Do you really think they're going to listen or do anything other than give him a load of sh**? And how is whether they win or lose at all relevant?

He shouldn't have to do a freakin thing other than tell everyone where to shove their boo-hoo BS.

He's a sad man.No, the sad ones are the ones acting like he just had sex with a child or something.

[Bill Thompson]

Sorry if this has been covered but when Howard Stern and Imus worked at the same station, Imus reduced a black coworker to tears calling her a "******" (ok, the "N" word). Stern has recanted this story on his radio show and Imus has admitted the fact that this happened on Larry King's show.

[bigred]

You might want to investigate what you're backing. Aside from all this controversy, Imus does some suck-ass radio.No really wow what a shocker :rolleyes: And this is different from just about every other DJ how?

You'd be better off sticking to your morning zoo.I would rather chew glass than listen to any "morning zoo." You miss the point. I hate DJs. They are obnoxious, stupid, rarely funny or worthwhile in any way. He's likely no exception, but I don't care. Even as lame as they are, I don't want to see one of them raked through the coals because of such a tame, who-gives-a-flip remark. This reminds me of the whole Jimmy the Greek thing.

I hope Rutgers loses every game they play. Those stupid nappy headed ho's.

GASP

:ducks for cover:

;)

[pgwenthold]

I think that part of the problem. This wasn't Katie Couric. This was Don Friggin "Where Is He Now?" Imus.



So racist remarks are acceptable if they are from someone non-important?

If this were Katie Couric, the extent of controversy would be far and away greater than what it is even now, and she would be fired before she could say the 'ho'.

[BPSCG]

Stern has recanted this story on his radio show...Ummm...

[TheJim]

Exactly the same way I felt before, ie DJs are practically by definition (and pointedly) a-holes. Imus, Stern, "Greaseman," ad nauseum. Their job is to be obnoxious slime. Sadly, our society eats it up.



He is not a DJ in the mold of Stern, Greaseman or morning zoo's. He has politicians on his show almost every day, he has anchor people from news networks on his show almost every day. He is a member of the news media and as such he is line for more criticism then Michael Richards or a Stern.

[BPSCG]

So racist remarks are acceptable if they are from someone non-important?

If this were Katie Couric, the extent of controversy would be far and away greater than what it is even now, and she would be fired before she could say the 'ho'.Katie Couric is important? When did this happen? :confused:

[Donal]

They should actually thank him for making people give a damn about them and women's basketball in general.

And anyone who is scarred for life by this has had way too comfortable an existance.

[EBU]

Did anyone see what Gwen Ifill had to say about this in today's NY Times?

"For all their grit, hard work and courage, the Rutgers girls got branded “nappy-headed ho’s” — a shockingly concise sexual and racial insult, tossed out in a volley of male camaraderie by a group of amused, middle-aged white men. The “joke” — as delivered and later recanted — by the radio and television personality Don Imus failed one big test: it was not funny."

That works for me.

[corplinx]

So racist remarks are acceptable if they are from someone non-important?


I am glad you were able to extrapolate this from what I said. Versus something like "Why is this even a major news story since it wasn't racist or malicious and the person is someone the average joe has never even heard of?"

[hgc]

Did anyone see what Gwen Ifill had to say about this in today's NY Times?

"For all their grit, hard work and courage, the Rutgers girls got branded “nappy-headed ho’s” — a shockingly concise sexual and racial insult, tossed out in a volley of male camaraderie by a group of amused, middle-aged white men. The “joke” — as delivered and later recanted — by the radio and television personality Don Imus failed one big test: it was not funny."

That works for me.


Works for me too. This is why racial humor works for Howard Stern and not for Imus. Howard is funny.

[Tailgater]

Works for me too. This is why racial humor works for Howard Stern and not for Imus. Howard is funny.

Howard is also known for bringing himself down in the process which somehow justifies it.

[SezMe]

Did anyone see what Gwen Ifill had to say about this in today's NY Times?

"For all their grit, hard work and courage, ...

It takes "courage" to play basketball? This whole thing has grown way, way out of proportion to its importance.

[Donal]

Howard Stern is funny? did I wake up in 1989 just now?

[Darth Rotor]

Sorry if this has been covered but when Howard Stern and Imus worked at the same station, Imus reduced a black coworker to tears calling her a "******" (ok, the "N" word). Stern has recanted this story on his radio show and Imus has admitted the fact that this happened on Larry King's show.

Recanted would mean Stern withdrew the story, but if he recounted the tale, it means he told people about it. Is that what you meant to say, that Stern recounted the tale of Imus being a jerk to a black coworker?

Do Stern and Imus agree that it all happened on Larry King's show?

DR

[Bill Thompson]

Ummm...

I saw the Larry King show where Imus admitted to calling the woman a N-WORD. It happened. Just because Howard Stern is somewhere in the story does not mean it did not happen.

I meant recounted.

Sorry.

[BPSCG]

I meant recounted.

Sorry.:D By now, you've figured out this is a tough crowd...

[schplurg]

It's simple...don't listen to his show. I don't. If enough people/advertisers get sick of him the show will fail.

Whether or not he is fired is not my concern. The people investing in his show are the only ones who should be worried about this.

[WildCat]

a group of amused, middle-aged white men.
"Middele-aged"? Imus doesn't look a day under 80 to my eyes... :boggled:

[pgwenthold]

Those of you who are dismissing Imus as a irrelevent, tell that to John McCain, who is booked to be on his show soon (this week, I think).

True irrelevence is exhibited by that McGuirk guy that called the players "jigaboos." Notice that no one is talking about that (I brought it up). That's because THAT guy is irrelevent.

Imus is a major media figure by any definition. Of course, whether he SHOULD be is a different story, but as it goes, he is a media figure.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Those of you who are dismissing Imus as a irrelevent, tell that to John McCain, who is booked to be on his show soon (this week, I think).

True irrelevence is exhibited by that McGuirk guy that called the players "jigaboos." Notice that no one is talking about that (I brought it up). That's because THAT guy is irrelevent.

Imus is a major media figure by any definition. Of course, whether he SHOULD be is a different story, but as it goes, he is a media figure.


That's not racist. Or at least it wasn't meant to be. It came from Spike Lee's "School daze" film per the "Jiggaboo/Wannabe" sequence.

[Regnad Kcin]

"Staples Inc. and Procter & Gamble Co. have pulled their advertising from Don Imus' radio show..." (http://news.aol.com/entertainment/articles/_a/companies-pull-ads-from-imus-show/20070409070209990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001)

[varwoche]

Last I heard, he asked to do just that, but they [the Rutgers team] don't want to see him, preferring, I guess, their own self-righteous anger. This is false, self-serving speculation, as is made clear by the fact they are meeting with Imus.

Yet today, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Barack Obama are upset because Imus said "nappy-haired ho's." Where has their outrage been all these years over rap lyrics? ... Why doesn't Sharpton picket the record labels that produce this garbage? Why doesn't he call for boycotts of the "artists" involved? This too is false, self-serving speculation.

Al Sharpton to call for a 90-day ban on radio and TV airplay for any artist using violence to settle a score or hype a record. link (http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0503/09/ltm.03.html) Calling for "dignity over degradation," Jesse Jackson recently implored the entertainment industry to cease in using the N-word. link (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4384933.html) The Rev. Al Sharpton, presidential candidate and high-profile agitator, has called obscene rappers "lowdown, devious things who are not worth the millions of dollars young people spend to make them stars." link (http://washingtontimes.com/national/20030730-105116-9258r.htm) To have something as despicable and violent as this projected as what goes on in our communities or any communities, is something everybody should boycott. link (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,154664,00.html)
If the music industry won’t listen to Rev. Al Sharpton’s views on violence in music, then he will force them to. link (http://www.chartattack.com/damn/2005/03/2207.cfm) Jesse Jackson also has launched a major drive indicting the denigrating influence of Gangsta Rap. link (http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:D9hEQZBsrGcJ:www.jmfcc.com/Verbal%2520Graffiti%2520Article.pdf+%22jesse+jacks on%22+%22rap+lyrics%22%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=12&gl=us) [Jackson/Rainbow Coalition] challenge to record industry heads to cease distributing records with violent and demeaning lyrics. link (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_n12_v85/ai_14777926)

[BPSCG]

This too is false, self-serving speculation.

Pretty weak case you make with your examples. Let's review a few of them:

Al Sharpton to call for a 90-day ban on radio and TV airplay for any artist using violence to settle a score or hype a record. link (http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0503/09/ltm.03.html)

Calls for a ban on rappers who use violence to settle scores. Doesn't get into rap lyrics at all.

Calling for "dignity over degradation," Jesse Jackson recently implored the entertainment industry to cease in using the N-word. link (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4384933.html) But not the "h" word, or the "b" word...

The Rev. Al Sharpton, presidential candidate and high-profile agitator, has called obscene rappers "lowdown, devious things who are not worth the millions of dollars young people spend to make them stars." link (http://washingtontimes.com/national/20030730-105116-9258r.htm)

Sharpton calls obscene rappers "lowdown devious thugs" but there's nothing in the link that urges a boycott or firing of DJs who play their music or anything like that.

To have something as despicable and violent as this projected as what goes on in our communities or any communities, is something everybody should boycott. link (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,154664,00.html) This link has nothing whatsoever to do with foul rap lyrics. Sharpton is protesting a DVD game that portrays blacks as violent.


If the music industry won’t listen to Rev. Al Sharpton’s views on violence in music, then he will force them to. link (http://www.chartattack.com/damn/2005/03/2207.cfm)
Sharpton will "force them" to listen to what he has to say by buying stock in their companies. Did he ever actually do this? In any case, I thought when you disapproved of a company, you demanded that people divest themselves of its stock, not buy more of it.

[Jackson/Rainbow Coalition] challenge to record industry heads to cease distributing records with violent and demeaning lyrics. link (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_n12_v85/ai_14777926)

Jackson's drive to clean up rap lyrics? Here's his action list:


* Youth march at the White House on April 4, (the day Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., was assassinated) to call for an urban policy that includes jobs and justice.
* Meet with President Bill Clinton to discuss need for jobs bill, an urban policy and commitment to an anti-discrimination policy.
* Anti-violence conferences, similar to the one held in Washington, DC, to be held in other cities across the country.
* Challenge 100 churches to mentor 10 troubled youths in 10 different cities.
* Continue to challenge both students and parents to sign the Rainbow pledge to end violence.
* Challenge schools and jails to start mentoring programs.
* Escalate plan for an effective anti-discrimination policy.
* Study media influence on violence.
* Action campaign against racist films.
* Join Atlanta disc jockey Jack The Rapper in his challenge to record industry heads to cease distributing records with violent and demeaning lyrics.
It's full of "challenges." And if the music industry declines the challenge, then what?

Sorry, this is all pretty thin gruel compared to what they're demanding of Imus.

[varwoche]

Calls for a ban on rappers who use violence to settle scores. Doesn't get into rap lyrics at all. True, this cite was off the mark.

But not the "h" word, or the "b" word... This is pseudo-skeptical parsing. It is a clear example of Jackson challenging the content of rap lyrics. I suppose if it challenged "h" and "b" someone could gripe that it doesn't challenge "x" and "y".

Sharpton calls obscene rappers "lowdown devious thugs" but there's nothing in the link that urges a boycott or firing of DJs who play their music or anything like that. More pseudo-skeptical parsing, seeing as Sharpton does call for boycotts in other of the links I provided, and this link makes it clear that Sharpton has spoken out about obscene rap lyrics.

This link has nothing whatsoever to do with foul rap lyrics. Sharpton is protesting a DVD game that portrays blacks as violent. There is nothing magical about rap versus other entertainment mediums, except for cheap debate points.

Sharpton will "force them" to listen to what he has to say by buying stock in their companies. Did he ever actually do this? In any case, I thought when you disapproved of a company, you demanded that people divest themselves of its stock, not buy more of it. I have no idea if he followed up. And the effectiveness of the tactic is not the point. Your false speculation posing as fact is the point.

Jackson's drive to clean up rap lyrics? Here's his action list: So what? One of the items had to do with rap lyrics. You should just admit you are wrong instead of reaching for cheap debate points.

[slingblade]

That's not racist. Or at least it wasn't meant to be. It came from Spike Lee's "School daze" film per the "Jiggaboo/Wannabe" sequence.


No, it did not "come from" there, as in "originated" there.

I have news for you, youngster. That word's been around a lot longer than Spike himself, and it is absolutely racist. It refers to only one people: black people.

You don't fool me, kid. Though it is somewhat sad to see how you're fooling yourself.

[Gurdur]

..You don't fool me, kid.
Does Dustin fool anyone except himself?

[slingblade]

Does Dustin fool anyone except himself?

Here? Doubtful.

But that he even exists proves there is a type, a "mind set" if you will, out there who can be fooled by him. After all, he was similarly fooled by someone else, somewhere in life.

Scary, innit?

[Gurdur]

.... After all, he was similarly fooled by someone else, somewhere in life.
Scary, innit?
Pardon me if I demur; maybe he simply fools himself out of choice, maybe noone else fooled him, noone else is responsible for this crap. Maybe he's simply some pimply very angry 23-year-old bitching about not being able to have his fav shock jock make racist jokes and get away with it.

Dunno if he's scarey, like you I've met far worse, I think he's just pathetic. But entertaining.

[slingblade]

Well, no, I don't necessarily mean by a particular person, displacing the blame or personal responsibility onto a third party. But he heard it somewhere, didn't he? And he's trying very hard to spread it, isn't he? And that he exists shows that others, similarly minded, must also...which, of course, we know....

I guess I was just musing in the existential or something...just thinking in text how sad it is that there are those who can fool themselves into agreeing with this sort of irrational hate while simultaneously denying it's there.

And then, of course, we enter the realm of "if I hate the hater, am I a hater, too?" and--hey! Stop pushing! No, no, I don't want to go to Philosophy! No, wait, wa--

[steverino]

I challenge anyone who believe that "nappy-headed" ISN'T a racial slur to go up to a group of African-American men and loudly exclaim, "So, how are you nappy-headed fellows today?"

When you're released from the Emergency Room, come back and defend your position.

It's all context. Someone can say "You are such a Jew." Then the word "Jew" is insulting in certain contexts.

Anyway, this "being scarred for life" seems to me like the basketball players are posturing for a big lawsuit agains Imus. His pockets are deap.

[Gurdur]

...Anyway, this "being scarred for life" seems to me like the basketball players are posturing for a big lawsuit agains Imus. His pockets are deap.
Welcome to America.

Imus made his living being an ******** shock jock; it's extremely difficult to feel any sympathy whatsoever for him; in fact I hope they take him for every cent he has, just because he's a diptwit.

[Wheezebucket]

He should actually be fired for producing one of the most consistently awful and boring radio shows known to humanity. Have you seen the TV show? It manages to be even MORE boring than the radio show somehow. It's like just looking at him drains all the life right out of you. And his droning voice...And who's that creepy guy that he chats with? Imagine if they fire Imus and give the show to him for some reason...

[steverino]

Welcome to America.

Imus made his living being an ******** shock jock; it's extremely difficult to feel any sympathy whatsoever for him; in fact I hope they take him for every cent he has, just because he's a diptwit.

I heard he makes 10 million a year!:jaw-dropp

Life isn't fair.

[Wheezebucket]

10 million?! For THAT?!

Not surprising, yet still depressing...

[hgc]

He should actually be fired for producing one of the most consistently awful and boring radio shows known to humanity. Have you seen the TV show? It manages to be even MORE boring than the radio show somehow. It's like just looking at him drains all the life right out of you. And his droning voice...And who's that creepy guy that he chats with? Imagine if they fire Imus and give the show to him for some reason...


That's not the half of it. As painful as it is to listen to his voice, like daggers in your ears, it's even worse how friggin' slow he talks how he takes long pauses in his sentences. Silence is death on the radio. Doesn't he know that? And to listen to this ancient wrinkly crone and his dingleberry sucking sidekicks try to mimic rap phrasology, don't even get me started...

Who listens to him? Anyone? Anyone under 60?

[Dustin Kesselberg]

No, it did not "come from" there, as in "originated" there.

I have news for you, youngster. That word's been around a lot longer than Spike himself, and it is absolutely racist. It refers to only one people: black people.

You don't fool me, kid. Though it is somewhat sad to see how you're fooling yourself.

I'm talking about Imus' reference to it. His co-host mentioned "Jigaboos and wannabes" referencing the Spike Lee movie. Please stop contorting what I say into what you'd like it to say.

[Lonewulf]

Intriguing. Not sure if this was mentioned earlier, but...

According to Wikipedia:

Chicago Tribune columnist Clarence Page, who once had Imus take a pledge not to engage in racist talk, said of the Imus' two-week suspension, "This sends a very bad signal and it's a bad use of the public airwaves. And, frankly, I don't think it's even fair to other shock jocks who've lost their jobs over doing a lot less."

(From here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Imus))

So he made a pledge not to make racist remarks. But that's not all. He's been pointed out to be extremely misogynistic, homophobic, and racist before. From what I've heard (but haven't seen actual evidence yet, so I'm somewhat skeptical), he's even referred to blacks as "apes" in the past.

Also, he's allegedly committed slander in two cases, who challenged him on it in 2003 and 2004. Probably more cases than that, where the people slandered didn't bother to take him to court over it.

I'm done caring about this freak.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Pardon me if I demur; maybe he simply fools himself out of choice, maybe noone else fooled him, noone else is responsible for this crap. Maybe he's simply some pimply very angry 23-year-old bitching about not being able to have his fav shock jock make racist jokes and get away with it.

Dunno if he's scarey, like you I've met far worse, I think he's just pathetic. But entertaining.

More nonsense and no debate? Typical. Whenever you can't debate the facts anymore you resort to petty nonsense and cowardly tactics. I effectively spanked you in this thread and the other one proving that this whole Imus ordeal is a joke and what Imus said was not racist. You were left stuttering like the blabbering idiot that you are and now that you have nothing left, all you can do is act like a 15 year old and pull the old "pimply 20 something" routine?

:dl:

[slingblade]

I'm talking about Imus' reference to it. His co-host mentioned "Jigaboos and wannabes" referencing the Spike Lee movie. Please stop contorting what I say into what you'd like it to say.


Doesn't matter what was being referenced or by whom. The word is still racist. You are still wrong.

[Mephisto]

It's all context. Someone can say "You are such a Jew." Then the word "Jew" is insulting in certain contexts.

Anyway, this "being scarred for life" seems to me like the basketball players are posturing for a big lawsuit agains Imus. His pockets are deap.

You're right and I wouldn't put up with that kind of language either! It's an ugly stereotype and I've met many a poor Jewish person (that's another sick stereotype, that all Jews are rich).

For the record, the two cultures most persecuted by the Nazis, the Jews and the Gypsies, share the "spend-thrift" stereotype. "Don't let him Gyp you out of your money," referred to Gypsies.

I also don't let anyone call someone an "Indian-Giver" around me, nor do I allow anyone to tell racist or sexist jokes around me. Believe it or not, I even have Asian friends who drive just fine. :)

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Well, no, I don't necessarily mean by a particular person, displacing the blame or personal responsibility onto a third party. But he heard it somewhere, didn't he? And he's trying very hard to spread it, isn't he? And that he exists shows that others, similarly minded, must also...which, of course, we know....

I guess I was just musing in the existential or something...just thinking in text how sad it is that there are those who can fool themselves into agreeing with this sort of irrational hate while simultaneously denying it's there.

And then, of course, we enter the realm of "if I hate the hater, am I a hater, too?" and--hey! Stop pushing! No, no, I don't want to go to Philosophy! No, wait, wa--

Let's look at exactly what Don Imus said...

IMUS: That's some rough girls from Rutgers. Man, they got tattoos and --

BERNARD McGUIRK: Some hard-core hos.

IMUS: That's some nappy-headed hos there. I'm gonna tell you that now, man, that's some -- woo. And the girls from Tennessee, they all look cute, you know, so, like -- kinda like -- I don't know.

He simply called them "Nappy headed hos". Now it's true that this is an offensive thing to say and no doubt offended some people, but let's not make it into something it isn't.

Is it racist? I don't see how. By definition "nappy" simply means "kinky" hair. While it's a fact that most African Americans do have "kinky" hair and that these Rutger players had kinky hair, I don't for one second see how this could be racist. If Chris Rock had said they had nappy hair, would he of been called a racist? No. The fact that we have a double standard here is proof that what Dan Imus said was not racist.

Dan himself has nappy hair. It wasn't a racial slur. White people can have nappy hair as well.
http://www.imonthe.net/66wnbc/images/don-imus.gif


1 : closely twisted or curled

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionar...earch&va=Kinky (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=Kinky)

By definition, Shortly curled=Nappy.

I've shown how it has nothing to do with race. Only blacks have nappy hair? I use "Nappy head" all of the time when referring to Caucasians. Imus has nappy hair. It wasn't a racial slur. White people can have nappy hair as well. The fact that they HAD nappy hair seems to be amiss. He was attacked by politically correct morons who have nothing better to do than pick fights with people. Now he may lose his job for a triviality. A molehill made into a mountain.

[Lonewulf]

*Yawn*

[slingblade]

And you're still wrong.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

So he made a pledge not to make racist remarks. But that's not all. He's been pointed out to be extremely misogynistic, homophobic, and racist before.

His comments weren't racist. I've proven that already. The fact that people are construing them into something they aren't is irrelevant.


From what I've heard (but haven't seen actual evidence yet, so I'm somewhat skeptical), he's even referred to blacks as "apes" in the past.

His co-hosts were joking about how Serena and Venus Williams were as big as "Gorillas" in their playboy shoot I believe.

I'm done caring about this freak.

It's not him you should care about. Of course he's raised over 100 million for cancer research and has helped autistic children for decades...Which of course seems to be totally ignored. What you need to care about is the pervasive attitude in our society that anything is racist. Anything and everything. If Al Sharpton says it's racist well it must be racist!

[hgc]

Dan himself has nappy hair. It wasn't a racial slur. White people can have nappy hair as well.


Do you think that 70's perm is nappy hair? I wasn't going to pile on top of you in this thread, but now I have to say that you're actually goofier than I previously thought.

[Lonewulf]

Do you think that 70's perm is nappy hair? I wasn't going to pile on top of you in this thread, but now I have to say that you're actually goofier than I previously thought.

You just figured it out? :eye-poppi

His comments weren't racist. I've proven that already. The fact that people are construing them into something they aren't is irrelevant.

He was also strong-armed by the NAACP and NOW. The latter did it because his comments were misogynistic. He has a long history of misogyny, at the least.

Raising over 100 million dollars for cancer research and helping autistic children for decades is cool and all, if that's true (and I admit, it does raise my respect for the guy a little), but I wouldn't care if he was frikkin' Mother Theresa.

If Mother Theresa went around making misogynistic and racist remarks, especially about people that didn't have it coming, I'd still criticize her.

As for you "proving" that the comments weren't racist, the evidence I have seen is unsatisfactory.

This man seems to have a history, and the more I see of it, the more I do not like him. Then there's the fact that he seems to own up to the claim that his claims were racist, which is interesting; if his comments weren't racist, why is he apologizing for them, and saying that he "went too far"?

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Doesn't matter what was being referenced or by whom. The word is still racist. You are still wrong.


What the hell? Making a REFERENCE TO A MOVIE is not racist!!!

You're totally ignoring the context of the discussion. I could easily take a word out of something you've posted in the past and use that single word and say "Hey, Slingblade is racist!". What you're doing is taking a single word out of an entire discussion and labeling it racist. That's simply ignorant.

[slingblade]

Do you think that 70's perm is nappy hair? I wasn't going to pile on top of you in this thread, but now I have to say that you're actually goofier than I previously thought.

He does indeed. He thinks a perm = nappy hair.

He also keeps insisting he's proven something. I've seen his mininformed opinions, but I've seen no proof of anything but his racism and ignorance.

I'm also not surprised. I doubt anyone here is.

[Mephisto]

I'm talking about Imus' reference to it. His co-host mentioned "Jigaboos and wannabes" referencing the Spike Lee movie. Please stop contorting what I say into what you'd like it to say.

You can't reference a Black film maker poking fun at the stereotypes of his race as the impetus behind your racism. It's also not racism for an African-American film maker or an African-American cRAP star to use those words. It may seem like a double standard to you, but a Black man calling another Black man a (N-word), while derogitory, isn't racist - but when a scraggly-haired, White cowboy does it, it's obviously racist!

You're in the minority here, Dustin. You should just admit it was a racist remark and move on.

[slingblade]

Dustin, bold text doesn't impress or intimidate me.

And just in case anyone aside from you missed it:

You are wrong.

[Lonewulf]

Dustin, bold text doesn't impress or intimidate me.

And just in case anyone aside from you missed it:

You are wrong.

Oh, but he can admit it!

Scroll down to the bottom 1/3rd to 1/4th of this page to see his incredible wrong-admission skillz: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=77708&page=14

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Do you think that 70's perm is nappy hair? I wasn't going to pile on top of you in this thread, but now I have to say that you're actually goofier than I previously thought.

2.(of hair) kinky.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Nappy

2.(of hair) closely or tightly curled.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Kinky

I'm tired of people trying to re-define words. Try using the dictionary for once.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

As for you "proving" that the comments weren't racist, the evidence I have seen is unsatisfactory.

Because you're bias and don't want to admit what he said wasn't racist.

This man seems to have a history, and the more I see of it, the more I do not like him. Then there's the fact that he seems to own up to the claim that his claims were racist, which is interesting; if his comments weren't racist, why is he apologizing for them, and saying that he "went too far"?

Try actually watching his show. He said that in the context of what he said it was not racist.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

He does indeed. He thinks a perm = nappy hair.

He also keeps insisting he's proven something. I've seen his mininformed opinions, but I've seen no proof of anything but his racism and ignorance.

I'm also not surprised. I doubt anyone here is.

2.(of hair) kinky.http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Nappy

2.(of hair) closely or tightly curled.http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Kinky


As far as my "mininformed" opinions go...You might try actually opening a book for once. It helps. Trust me.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

You can't reference a Black film maker poking fun at the stereotypes of his race as the impetus behind your racism.

There was no "racism". The context WAS the film itself. Are you telling me referencing a film is racist now? Are you that brainwashed by the politically correct nuts that you believe referencing a film is racist?

It's also not racism for an African-American film maker or an African-American cRAP star to use those words. It may seem like a double standard to you, but a Black man calling another Black man a (N-word), while derogitory, isn't racist - but when a scraggly-haired, White cowboy does it, it's obviously racist!

When did Imus say ******? He didn't. He said "Nappy haired hos" referring to the basket ball players. That's it. Try doing research next time.

You're in the minority here, Dustin. You should just admit it was a racist remark and move on.

That's a fallacy. Argument from popularity. Try again.

[Mephisto]

Let's look at exactly what Don Imus said...

Yes, let's look EXACTLY at what Don Imus said:

MUS: That's some rough girls from Rutgers. Man, they got tattoos and --

BERNARD McGUIRK: Some hard-core hos.

IMUS: That's some nappy-headed hos there. I'm gonna tell you that now, man, that's some -- woo. And the girls from Tennessee, they all look cute, you know, so, like -- kinda like -- I don't know.


So, the Rutger's team are nappy-headed hos, while the Tennessee team "look all cute." I'd really be interested in the ratio of African-American women to White women on the Tennessee team. Anyone have a photo?

[Tailgater]

Start a vote count of a tight perm being considered nappy hair in the real world, despite your dictionary posting. You will find yourself outvoted one to infinity.

[Tailgater]

[URL]As far as my "mininformed" opinions go...You might try actually opening a book for once. It helps. Trust me.

Sometimes you need to learn "outside" the book.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Yes, let's look EXACTLY at what Don Imus said:




So, the Rutger's team are nappy-headed hos, while the Tennessee team "look all cute." I'd really be interested in the ratio of African-American women to White women on the Tennessee team. Anyone have a photo?



I believe they're mostly black as well..

http://utladyvols.cstv.com/sports/w-baskbl/spec-rel/gallery_index.html#

[Mephisto]

When did Imus say ******? He didn't. He said "Nappy haired hos" referring to the basket ball players. That's it. Try doing research next time.

I didn't say that Imus used the N-word - try reading what I wrote.

So, I'm assuming that since you've added your surname that you're Jewish? How would you feel if I quoted some German character dialogue from Schindler's List regarding Jews to refer to your family? What if I were to use names from an anti-Semitic pamphlet to describe your sister? Is that fair, or does the excuse for racism only apply to films? What about cartoons, or literature, or Nazi propaganda movies? Where do you personally draw the line?

[hgc]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Nappy


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Kinky

I'm tired of people trying to re-define words. Try using the dictionary for once.


It doesn't matter how many dictionary definitions you link to, that perm is not nappy hair, it never will be and anyone not cranial-rectally engaged knows it.

[Mephisto]

Start a vote count of a tight perm being considered nappy hair in the real world, despite your dictionary posting. You will find yourself outvoted one to infinity.

I agree completely! Walk up and call a White person with a perm Nappy-Headed, then walk up and call an African-American Nappy-Headed and see who gets insulted.

Those words have a racial conotation whether you believe it or not.

[Gurdur]

It doesn't matter how many dictionary definitions you link to, that perm is not nappy hair, it never will be and anyone not cranial-rectally engaged knows it.
The dictionary contradicts Dustin:
closely or tightly curled.
Which doesn't fit a perm.

Dustin is way out in space with no oxygen supply on this; the dictionary contradicts him, reality contradicts him, but you know, he's only going to keep on whining and whining, and telling us all how he's won.

[Tailgater]

anyone not cranial-rectally engaged knows it.

......or that.

[Thunder]

The fact remains that black DJ's use terms like this and much worse on a dailyt basis during their radio show programs. But in today's strange world, its ok for blacks to insult and offend other blacks with racist remarks but when whites do it it is a federal offense. (the figurative sense).

One of two things need to happen: either we all need to lighten up and not be so thin skinned, or any/all racist remarks, no matter who they come from, should lead to the firing of anyone who makes them.

[Mephisto]

The fact remains that black DJ's use terms like this and much worse on a dailyt basis during their radio show programs. But in today's strange world, its ok for blacks to insult and offend other blacks with racist remarks but when whites do it it is a federal offense. (the figurative sense).

One of two things need to happen: either we all need to lighten up and not be so thin skinned, or any/all racist remarks, no matter who they come from, should lead to the firing of anyone who makes them.

Sometimes racial groups are crazy like that - they'll put up with someone of their own race/culture using names or words that someone from a different culture using those words will be seen as racist.

I can call almost anyone in my family a dumb spic and they'll likely laugh it off, but if Imus walks up and calls them that, he'll walk away bloody. When Imus is a Black man, then maybe he can use the words nappy-headed ho's in jest.

[hgc]

Sometimes racial groups are crazy like that - they'll put up with someone of their own race/culture using names or words that someone from a different culture using those words will be seen as racist.

I can call almost anyone in my family a dumb spic and they'll likely laugh it off, but if Imus walks up and calls them that, he'll walk away bloody. When Imus is a Black man, then maybe he can use the words nappy-headed ho's in jest.


If it comes from within the group, it's safe. It has the complete opposite effect as when an outsider says it -- for bonding on a common identity as opposed to becoming defensive against an attack on your identity.

[BPSCG]

Start a vote count of a tight perm being considered nappy hair in the real world, despite your dictionary posting. You will find yourself outvoted one to infinity.Well, I don't think so, unless you think there's an infinity number of people on the planet.

But, yeah, I think the only time I've ever seen "nappy" refer to anything other than black people's hair is here. Forget it, Dustin; even if you are technically correct - and I don't think you are - I doubt anyone has ever used the word to refer to anyone who isn't negroid.

My question is why it's considered racist. Is it racist if someone says some white trailer park woman has "stringy" hair? Insulting, sure, but racist? Please.

[Mephisto]

If it comes from within the group, it's safe. It has the complete opposite effect as when an outsider says it -- for bonding on a common identity as opposed to becoming defensive against an attack on your identity.

You're absolutely right, but as we've seen over and over personalities like Chris Rock, Carlos Mencia, Lenny Bruce, Bill Hicks and others CAN make a successful racial joke. They're making (or made) us laugh at ourselves and at the stereotypes that we'd normally find repulsive. People like Michael Richards and Don Imus AREN'T funny when they spew their "jokes," especially considering there is no punchline.

[Thunder]

I mean, for instance, it seems like the "n" word is being literally kept alive not by white racists, but by blacks themselves. I live in NYC and the word is used like "dude" or "fella" or "guy". I can count on my two hands the number of times I have heard that word used why a white person in NYC. But if I had a nickle for every time I heard a black person say it, I'd be a rich man.

I understand that amoung your own, its sorta/kinda/maybe ok to use derogatory language. But I still think if the word was so damn offensive, in shouldn't be uttered by anyone.

I think an unspoken topic is the issue of self-hatred and the use of the "n" word amoung blacks.

[Mephisto]

I mean, for instance, it seems like the "n" word is being literally kept alive not by white racists, but by blacks themselves. I live in NYC and the word is used like "dude" or "fella" or "guy". I can count on my two hands the number of times I have heard that word used why a white person in NYC. But if I had a nickle for every time I heard a black person say it, I'd be a rich man.

I understand that amoung your own, its sorta/kinda/maybe ok to use derogatory language. But I still think if the word was so damn offensive, in shouldn't be uttered by anyone.

I think an unspoken topic is the issue of self-hatred and the use of the "n" word amoung blacks.

I would agree with you and so would African-American author, M. Garlinda Burton. This is an excellent book and it's a shame that the VERY FIRST reviewer was obviously a racist.

The other reviews are fairly helpful though.

http://www.amazon.com/Never-Say-******-Again-Antiracism/dp/155523626X

I would recommend it especially to Dustin, but also to anyone who doesn't think "nappy-haired" is a racial slur.

[Phillybee]

I don't consider 'nappy' to be an insult. I've heard it quite a lot. I wonder what these folks think:

http://www.nappyhairaffair.com/

"But A Nappy Hair Affair (ANHA) is about so much more than hair. It is about reclaiming and respecting our culture. We have been conditioned to hate one of our most unique characteristics-our hair in its most natural state. We have been conditioned to accept European standards of beauty and to reject our own. ANHA exists to cause a shift in such negative mindsets and promote a positive image of people of African descent. We do it through support, affirmation and education."

[TheJim]

What the hell? Making a REFERENCE TO A MOVIE is not racist!!!

You're totally ignoring the context of the discussion. I could easily take a word out of something you've posted in the past and use that single word and say "Hey, Slingblade is racist!". What you're doing is taking a single word out of an entire discussion and labeling it racist. That's simply ignorant.

Here is why it was a racist comment because it came from a racist. As much as a I disagree with your analysis that it was not racist. I will grant you that these specific phrases could be seen as non racist and just offensive if say a Keith Oberman or Tucker Carlson said them. But, it was a man with a history of racist and sexist comments that made them so his words need to be judged in that context.

[Mephisto]

I don't consider 'nappy' to be an insult. I've heard it quite a lot. I wonder what these folks think:

http://www.nappyhairaffair.com/

"But A Nappy Hair Affair (ANHA) is about so much more than hair. It is about reclaiming and respecting our culture. We have been conditioned to hate one of our most unique characteristics-our hair in its most natural state. We have been conditioned to accept European standards of beauty and to reject our own. ANHA exists to cause a shift in such negative mindsets and promote a positive image of people of African descent. We do it through support, affirmation and education."

The woman who owns this salon was interviewed on Paula Zahn (I think it was Paula Zahn I saw it on) and she was trying to make a positive statement from a negative one. Still, it's an African-American woman using the word, and she states that her salon; "exists to cause a shift in such negative mindsets and promote a positive image of people of African descent." Therefore, she obviously knows of the negative connotations and would like to change them, at least among her African-American customers.

[Mephisto]

Here is why it was a racist comment because it came from a racist. As much as a I disagree with your analysis that it was not racist. I will grant you that these specific phrases could be seen as non racist and just offensive if say a Keith Oberman or Tucker Carlson said them. But, it was a man with a history of racist and sexist comments that made them so his words need to be judged in that context.

I agree Mr. TheJim - and would add that there is no way in Hell that Imus can claim he's NOT a racist.

(edited to add) Welcome to the forums. :)

[slingblade]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Nappy

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Kinky


As far as my "mininformed" opinions go...You might try actually opening a book for once. It helps. Trust me.


Odd. Neither of those definitions came from your opening a book.....

Keep on, Dustin. I am far more widely and better read than you, child. What you said is not an insult to me. It is, rather, as laughable as everything else you keep saying.

Edited to remove personal attack. Slingblade, remember that your membership agreement requires you to be civil to other members of the forum.