Heads up - Derren Brown on TV tonight

[Mr Clingford]

Channel 4 tonight, 22:00 - 22:30 'Derren Brown: Trick or Treat'

Radio Times says,
Psychological illusionist Derren Brown involves members of the public and celebrity guests in a fiendish version of the Halloween game. This week, having pulled a trick card, an unsuspecting man is put to sleep in a photo booth in London, only to awake in Marrakech. He also plays a game of fate with the stars on the League of Gentlemen involving chocolate mini-rolls.

I don't know if this is a repeat or not but I haven't seen it.

[deBergerac]

I think it is a repeat. But I still have not seen it. The frustrating thing with the Internet is that you get to know about all the things that you miss all over the world.

But I am sure I can find the show somewhere on the Internet, that makes it even I suppose.

[brettDbass]

Not a repeat, oh no. :D

You probably remember the Marrakech stunt being covered widely by the media and discussed here at length too.

[deBergerac]

Yeah, you are right.
Still won’t be able to see it. :(

[Mr Clingford]

Not a repeat, oh no. :D

You probably remember the Marrakech stunt being covered widely by the media and discussed here at length too.Hmm, I think I must have been asleep for a few months then :boggled:

[brettDbass]

Hmm, I think I must have been asleep for a few months then :boggled:

Trick or treee-eeat!

http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Societies/pga/master%20files/pgtips/derren%20brown.jpg

[Azrael 5]

UK tabloid followed Derren and the crew secretly in an attempt to expose the show as a sham/set up,and they had to admit it wasn't to Derren!!

He has gone so far away from magic now on these shows that he leads himself open to these claims.

[andyandy]

the new show wasn't bad.....

it was a fun stunt on the student, i presume he was drugged or some such? Not so much magical, but a good extension of the university prank of putting someone to bed blind drunk then carrying them and then their bed out to the halls courtyard for them to awake to much disorientation several hours later :)

[QueigBladecaster]

I'm I right in thinking the cards he was using were an ambigram of trick and treat?

I missed the oppertunity of standing on my head while watching last night :)

[Jekyll]

That's how it looked to me too.

[NeilC]

I'm stumpted by the league of gentlemen trick with the mini rolls.

4 of them enter the room and each take 1 of 5 chocoloate mini-roll cakes. The last person pockets the spare one.

4 cards spread on the table. They mix them up and take one each. Each on apparantly contains a message. The first person's message is, apparantly, "you will select blue". He;'s asked to look under the cusion of the chair - it's a large blue card. The others look and their cards also match their prediction cards.

They then unwrap and bite into their cakes. The spare on is unwrapped and contains a razor blade - obviously the only one!

I was thinking multiple outs for the card/chair but they are right and all in the same place - under the cushion of the chair of the selector.

I can explain all the effects in his live show pretty easily but not this one which makes me think the medium of TV plays a large part. It's justy too clean. Amazing or total scam?

[JamPal]

Hi, Newb here.

Damn I missed this.

I take you have all read his book. It was a well recieved Christmas present for me this year.

[Azrael 5]

I'm stumpted by the league of gentlemen trick with the mini rolls.

4 of them enter the room and each take 1 of 5 chocoloate mini-roll cakes. The last person pockets the spare one.

4 cards spread on the table. They mix them up and take one each. Each on apparantly contains a message. The first person's message is, apparantly, "you will select blue". He;'s asked to look under the cusion of the chair - it's a large blue card. The others look and their cards also match their prediction cards.

They then unwrap and bite into their cakes. The spare on is unwrapped and contains a razor blade - obviously the only one!

I was thinking multiple outs for the card/chair but they are right and all in the same place - under the cushion of the chair of the selector.

I can explain all the effects in his live show pretty easily but not this one which makes me think the medium of TV plays a large part. It's justy too clean. Amazing or total scam?


There you have it.;)

[Q-Source]

I was watching some DB´s videos on Youtube and came across this one which was disturbing to watch. In fact, this is something that Channel 4 will not broadcast -as the one who leaked the video asserts.
I think DB has gone too far. It is not funny to kidnap people and put them in very fearful situations no matter how famous you are. The guy just phoned the police, but I would definitely press charges.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRIV3hPt4AU

[3point14]

I'm I right in thinking the cards he was using were an ambigram of trick and treat?

I missed the oppertunity of standing on my head while watching last night :)

As I was out , I taped it and then watched it, rewound it, turned the television upside down* and watched it again I can confirm that yes they are, and I'm pretty sure that nobody's going to be getting a treat.


Loved the trick with the blank pieces of paper that he passes off as curency, particularly as he shows the one that doesn't work. And a $4500 ring? And the guy counted the pieces of paper right there. Very impressive, I'd never pay for lunch again.






*May not be true.

[andyandy]

I was watching some DB´s videos on Youtube and came across this one which was disturbing to watch. In fact, this is something that Channel 4 will not broadcast -as the one who leaked the video asserts.
I think DB has gone too far. It is not funny to kidnap people and put them in very fearful situations no matter how famous you are. The guy just phoned the police, but I would definitely press charges.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRIV3hPt4AU

i agree....that was a pretty ill-thought out stunt....it's not surprising he was freaking out....

[3point14]

Wish he'd teach me to play poker.

Whatever you think of the man, that particular trick was seriously impressive.

[NeilC]

The poker thing was a good effect. However having seen Derren give false explanations for a huge range of effects I find it very, very, very hard to believe this was remotely as it appeared.

For starters, on one of his stage shows he does a trick where say 5 balls are put in a bag - 4 black one white. 5 people take a ball and hide it behind their back. He uses his "lie detecting ability" to find out who has the white ball....except he doesn't of course. It's a reworking of the old Phil Goldstein effect with a far simpler and more disappointing method. Now, if HE cannot tell if people are lying confidently enough to do it on his own show then can we believe he can teach some old granny in a week? I don't think so.

If you think about it, the world's security agencies and police forces and psychiatrists etc etc have been trying to work out reliable methods of lie detection for years and the best they can come up with is the polygraph (NOT reliable) or drugs. Sure they have some trained people who have a good shot at it but it's not reliable. We are good at lying, especially about stuff that doesn't matter like if a card is high or low.

So I view the whole show as a series of magic effects. In that case, I assume the entire thing was a set up. She didn't know it, the poker pros didn't know it but maybe the dealer did....? It only lasted 45 mins which isn't many hands to fix.

[3point14]

We are good at lying, especially about stuff that doesn't matter like if a card is high or low.



When playing poker, the value of a card is not particularly something I'd refer to as 'stuff that doesn't matter'

Poker players themselves use techniques to try to evaluate opponents and read 'tells', and there are such things as 'good poker players', it's not only luck.

I would think that it is a perfectly valid skill to read people within the confines of a game of poker. Whether or not this skill can be taught to an octaganarian in a few weeks, I wouldn't like to speculate.

I would very much doubt that any of the players or the dealer were stooges. tabloid newspapers would pay a fair amount of money for an exclusive scoop on any Derrin Brown stooges that turned up.

That said, I'm not a magician, (although I can fool my seven year old nephew with a disappearing coin trick, does that count?) so there may be 1001 ways of doing this without the given explaination being correct, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of reading tells as an explaination, as professional poker players make their living doing just that.

[JonWhite]

Only my take and I obviously don't actually know, but gotta go with Splossy on this one.

The "treat" (and trick) was simply convincing Granny (and us) that she could really beat poker pro's with DB's "mind" techniques, not in her actually winning. There are far easier ways this could be achieved than those techniques claimed and "shown".

Just curious as I'm no expert - and hard to say without seeing the game flow - but would a poker pro really go all in with only a 10 & 7 at that point?

I also note no disclaimer about stooges this series. Hmmm.

Is it just me, or does he seem to be becoming an evil Jeremy Beadle in this series?

[NeilC]

When playing poker, the value of a card is not particularly something I'd refer to as 'stuff that doesn't matter'

Poker players themselves use techniques to try to evaluate opponents and read 'tells', and there are such things as 'good poker players', it's not only luck.

I would think that it is a perfectly valid skill to read people within the confines of a game of poker. Whether or not this skill can be taught to an octaganarian in a few weeks, I wouldn't like to speculate.

I would very much doubt that any of the players or the dealer were stooges. tabloid newspapers would pay a fair amount of money for an exclusive scoop on any Derrin Brown stooges that turned up.

That said, I'm not a magician, (although I can fool my seven year old nephew with a disappearing coin trick, does that count?) so there may be 1001 ways of doing this without the given explaination being correct, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of reading tells as an explaination, as professional poker players make their living doing just that.

When I referred to the high/low thing I meant the lead-up effects - when she was practicing. She was supposedly able to tell a high card from a low one just from reading their voice and face. That is not stronly emotional lying. I cannot believe I show any visible difference on a little lie like that. The best poker players on the planet surely would have learned how to do this by now, even if just on a trial and error basis. But they very often wrong or unable to get a tell. I'd like to see DB get a tell on Chris Ferguson or Phil Ivey. They show zero emotion, no movement - nothing. Most poker interviews I've read have said that tells are important but often overrated. If DB enters a normal tourney that he didn't set up and wins then I believe him. But that ain't gonna happen.

I don't think the players were stooges. I recognised all of them as professionals except Holden who is an author. The dealer is another matter. How can we possibly rule that person out? Dual Reality concepts might also enter into this.

I have books on poker tells and believe me, they are a useful guide that can help. But most good poker players have them so it's not big news, and the other skills are very important too. Betting patterns are often a bigger tell than hand or face movements and they take a real understanding of the game to utilise.

I think like almost everything DB does it's brilliant, entertaining, misleading ********.

[andyandy]

Is it just me, or does he seem to be becoming an evil Jeremy Beadle in this series?

LOL :D

[3point14]

When I referred to the high/low thing I meant the lead-up effects - when she was practicing. She was supposedly able to tell a high card from a low one just from reading their voice and face. That is not stronly emotional lying. I cannot believe I show any visible difference on a little lie like that. The best poker players on the planet surely would have learned how to do this by now, even if just on a trial and error basis. But they very often wrong or unable to get a tell. I'd like to see DB get a tell on Chris Ferguson or Phil Ivey. They show zero emotion, no movement - nothing. Most poker interviews I've read have said that tells are important but often overrated. If DB enters a normal tourney that he didn't set up and wins then I believe him. But that ain't gonna happen.


Ah, sorry, I thought you meant in the confines of the game. I guess when it has no emotional involvement (like when they were sorting cards based on reaction) there's going to be a lot less to go on.



I don't think the players were stooges. I recognised all of them as professionals except Holden who is an author. The dealer is another matter. How can we possibly rule that person out? Dual Reality concepts might also enter into this.


I would guess that good poker players keep a firm eye on the deck? And don't they shuffle the deck by swirling them around on the table? Wouldn't that be difficult to fix? Not impossible I suppose.




I have books on poker tells and believe me, they are a useful guide that can help. But most good poker players have them so it's not big news, and the other skills are very important too. Betting patterns are often a bigger tell than hand or face movements and they take a real understanding of the game to utilise.

I think like almost everything DB does it's brilliant, entertaining, misleading ********.


I find the man fascinating. However he's doing it is amazing. Unless there are stooges involved, then I may as well go watch a play. If it's done any other way then it is, as you say brilliant, entertaining, etc. etc.

I just really, really, really want it to be done the way he says it is. I'm so gullible when it comes to magic and legerdemain

[andyandy]

i just watched the poker episode....using channel 4s On demand service - (which is rather groovey)

my take....

firstly, they may have been people playing poker for a living - and thus "pros" of at least some standard, they were very much of the lower end of the spectrum...so there is certainly that qualifier....and in a short-handed game of no-limit with a limited number of hands, luck can play a very large part

nevertheless, there are certainly "tells" which can help you read your opposition - and if you can keep your own tells in check whilst picking up on your opponents', that does give you an edge....and i'm sure derren would be a decent tutor in this :)

Overall it was pretty impressive - but i don't think you could draw any firm conclusions from it.....

[3point14]

Overall it was pretty impressive - but i don't think you could draw any firm conclusions from it.....

But I WANT firm conclusions!!! I wanna know how it's done!! (cue extra-pramular plaything projection on my part.)

[Beerina]

There's a new show on tonight. In it, he hypnotizes some guy outside in a cold desert area, and the guy lays over (it's about 4 PM). About 4 hours later, he wakes the guy up and the guy is all shocked it's suddenly night.

Um, no. Don't have to guess at some hypnotic ability, nor drug use. Just a goofball confederate.

[Garrette]

That's already on youtube, but I'm too much a lazy bum to find the link right now.

[Azrael 5]

For the lazy bums.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EvyHH3C3Gds

[Baker]

I think it is a repeat. But I still have not seen it. The frustrating thing with the Internet is that you get to know about all the things that you miss all over the world.

But I am sure I can find the show somewhere on the Internet, that makes it even I suppose.

You can view Derren Brown's show in full each week on is on the Sci Fi channel web site.
If you miss it or don't have cable


http://www.scifi.com/derrenbrown/video/index.php

[Unalienable]

We are good at lying, especially about stuff that doesn't matter like if a card is high or low.
I'm sure most conjurers here know it, but that "high or low" card stunt was a old magician's standard called "Out of this World". I mean, it wasn't like the trick, it was the trick, down to the last detail. Usually it's done with the spectator picking red or black cards, Derren turned it into high and low cards since that has more relevance for poker.

So could the lady really detect when the man was lying about having a high or low card? No, not at all. But maybe it gave her enough confidence to win.