More Than Imus: Media Matters

[Dancing David]

http://mediamatters.org/items/200704120010

It is not just Imus, from Media Matters

Glenn Beck

excuse the expression, but this is the way to -- she's the stereotypical bitch, you know what I mean?
....
comes across the border in the middle of the night": "One, they're terrorists; two, they're escaping the law; or three, they're hungry. They can't make a living in their own dirtbag country."
....

On the August 24, 2006, edition of his CNN Headline News program, Beck claimed that Braille on walls (used to identify rooms for blind people) "drives me out of my mind." When he made his comment, Beck was discussing the "politically correct world we live in." He then said, "Just to piss them [blind people] off, I'm going to put in Braille on the coffee pot ... 'Pot is hot.' "




Neal Boortz

You have to really, really, really be a pretty pathetic human being to not be able to earn more than the human wage.
...
Boortz said that McKinney's "new hair-do" makes her look "like a ghetto slut,"
On the October 24, 2005, broadcast of his radio program, Boortz suggested that a victim of Hurricane Katrina housed in an Atlanta hotel consider prostitution. "If that's the only way she can take care of herself," Boortz posited, "it sure beats the hell out of sucking off the taxpayers."



Rush Limbaugh


"If we've got four new female police chiefs out there, then I guess we can watch out for some naked pyramids among prisoners in these new jailhouses that these women ran, because we had a woman running the prison in Abu Grab [sic]."
...
On April 26, 2004, Limbaugh claimed that women "actually wish" for sexual harassment, and said he then "laughed [him]self to tears" when Media Matters for America documented that and other sexist remarks he has made
...
"As a young broadcaster in the 1970s, Limbaugh once told a black caller: 'Take that bone out of your nose and call me back.'


Bill O'Reilly

O'Reilly added that "every man in the place was terrified of them." He later stated that, "in a lot of places, women have formed cabals to terrorize the men because they take advantage of, 'Oh, we're downtrodden. You're kicking us in the teeth.' " He then discussed how, in every country he'd "ever been to, women are treated worse [than] in the United States. ... Guys are gonna put their hands on you in that society in Italy, in Spain." O'Reilly concluded: "So, all of this whining about American women -- 'We don't have this; we don't have that' -- to me, I'm not real sympathetic. But I am a barbarian."
...
Bill O'Reilly dismissed scientific research on same-sex parenting to assert, "Nature dictates that a dad and a mom is the optimum" form of child-rearing. O'Reilly asked "why," if children suffer no psychosocial deficit from being raised by same-sex parents, "wouldn't nature then make it that anybody could get pregnant by eating a cupcake?"


And there is a lot more..

[corplinx]

Media Matters had someone listening to Imus who picked up the comment and started the media campaign that start the whole manufactured outrage.

Grats for empowering Al Sharpton and David "The Hack" Brock.

[Cleon]

Beck was also the one who demanded to know if Keith Ellison (the first Muslim in US congress) was "working for our enemies" because A) he's Muslim and B) he's against the war in Iraq (like most Americans).

Boortz--I could go on for ages about Boortz. This hypocrite Republitarian generally loathes Arabs, Muslims, and Blacks (though he's clever enough to hide that last bit behind hating "hip-hop culture"). He is also, I'm sorry to say, a member of my motorcycle club, and I've seen his jackassery up close and personal.

[Dancing David]

Media Matters had someone listening to Imus who picked up the comment and started the media campaign that start the whole manufactured outrage.

Grats for empowering Al Sharpton and David "The Hack" Brock.


I am not saying what we should or shouldn't do, i just left out the usual label for Media Matters :left leaning.

They report the facts, I decide. And apparently so do you.

[Dancing David]

Beck was also the one who demanded to know if Keith Ellison (the first Muslim in US congress) was "working for our enemies" because A) he's Muslim and B) he's against the war in Iraq (like most Americans).

Boortz--I could go on for ages about Boortz. This hypocrite Republitarian generally loathes Arabs, Muslims, and Blacks (though he's clever enough to hide that last bit behind hating "hip-hop culture"). He is also, I'm sorry to say, a member of my motorcycle club, and I've seen his jackassery up close and personal.


Do you do Poker Runs?

[corplinx]

I am not saying what we should or shouldn't do, i just left out the usual label for Media Matters :left leaning.

They report the facts, I decide. And apparently so do you.


Sorry, I didn't mean to imply you had empowered them. I was speaking of the people who hopped onto the Imus dogpile so quickly.

MMFA sees an opening to become more legitimate and relevant, and they are leaping in to that opening.

[Cleon]

Do you do Poker Runs?

Once in a while. They're pretty common at rallies and other motorcycle events. Why?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Do you do Poker Runs?

Poker? I hardly know her! <rimshot>

Thank you! I'll be here all week.

[Dancing David]

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply you had empowered them. I was speaking of the people who hopped onto the Imus dogpile so quickly.

MMFA sees an opening to become more legitimate and relevant, and they are leaping in to that opening.

Nah, that is not the case, in my eyes. they have had plenty of reports about Imus over an extended period, I don't think they are the causative effect of why this happened. I mean this, they have been reporting this stuff throughout thier existance, this is nothing new for them. It just stuck this time.

In fact Imus is a small player on thier reports.

They are as relevant as they ever were, which is why Limbaugh and savage like to call them names.

[Dancing David]

Once in a while. They're pretty common at rallies and other motorcycle events. Why?


Just curiosity, nothing more. They sound like a good excuse to ride around, although I have heard you have to look out for the drunks.

[Cleon]

Just curiosity, nothing more. They sound like a good excuse to ride around, although I have heard you have to look out for the drunks.

Only at Harley rallies. :D

Yeah, it's pretty much just an excuse to ride around. Ride to checkpoint A, get a card, ride to checkpoint B, get another card--there are variations, but that's the basic idea. Guy with the best hand at the end of the day wins.

[RandFan]

http://mediamatters.org/items/200704120010

It is not just Imus, from Media Matters

Glenn Beck

Neal Boortz

Rush Limbaugh

Bill O'Reilly

And there is a lot more..Thank you. Thank you.

Ban them. Ban them all. Let's come up with a list of objectional things that we can ban people for.

OR...

Let's chose what we can listen to. The radio and TV come with on off switches and dials.

LISTEN TO SOMETHING ELSE.

Oh, BTW, I don't mind pointing out to people the BS. That's fine. It's fine to get people to listen to something else.

It's so not cool to threaten everyone that if they don't speak squeaky clean they will be fired.

[Cleon]

Thank you. Thank you.

Ban them. Ban them all. Let's come up with a list of objectional things that we can ban people for.

This is why it's nigh impossible to take your argument seriously, RandFan. This is pure straw. Nobody has suggested anything about "banning" anyone.


It's so not cool to threaten everyone that if they don't speak squeaky clean they will be fired.

And nobody's done that, either.

If you want to argue that the rhetoric is getting out of hand, perhaps you should reconsider your own.

[RandFan]

This is why it's nigh impossible to take your argument seriously, RandFan. This is pure straw. Nobody has suggested anything about "banning" anyone. I readily concede the straw. I was using the same hyperbole that Frank Zappa used in his mothers of prevention tour. He's probably much better in his timing so perhaps I should stick to my own shtick.

When you say "nigh impossible" are you referring only to this instance or arguments in other threads?

If you mean the other threads then please to tell me what I've said there that would give you a reason to make this claim?

Otherwise I think we have a good starting point for a discussion. :)

And nobody's done that, either. My point has been from the start that there is no clear and bright line. Most would agree that what Imus said was beyond the pale. But where is that line? When should people be fired?

If you want to argue that the rhetoric is getting out of hand, perhaps you should reconsider your own. My words were intentionally chosen to provoke discussion. I concede that it was hyperbolic but I want people to consider the very real and serious consequences of the road we have momentarily chosen to go down.

I'm willing to engage in hyperbole and fallacy for rhetorical purposes and I don't mind at all being called out on it if I can get people to see the problems inherent in silencing speech.

[Mephisto]

Most would agree that what Imus said was beyond the pale.

I'm not calling you on anything, but I will admit that I got a chuckle out of this. ;)

[RandFan]

I'm not calling you on anything, but I will admit that I got a chuckle out of this. ;):D Not bad Mephisto. I'll grant you that one.

[RandFan]

I readily concede the straw. I was using the same hyperbole that Frank Zappa used in his mothers of prevention tour. He's probably much better in his timing so perhaps I should stick to my own shtick.Point of clarification. No one was calling for banning in the instance that Zappa was involved with either. He was against warning stickers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Zappa_Meets_the_Mothers_of_Prevention).

[King of the Americas]

Have any of you ever seen "Rush Hour" with Jackie Chan & Chris Tucker?

I think there is a scene that depicts what happens to non-blacks, when they try to use black lingo in he presense of a black man, very well. Moreover, I think this is what happened to Imus...

In the movie Jackie's character finds himself in a 'black' bar, where he approaches the barkeep and asks, "Wazzup my *igga?"

The next thing he knows, he is fighting the entire bar.

Admittedly, I don't listen to a lot of rap or hip hop, but I DO know that within the black culture, you ARE allowed to refer to friends and family as "your *iggas", and calling someone 'nappy-headed' or even a 'ho' can also be done in sport, but NOT if you are white...

Even if you are a 'wigger', in certain instances using any of the above terms toward a black man could get your arse handed to you.

Imus didn't say anything 'new', in fact, these are terms straight from the black community. I don't think he was 'serious' when he made those statements. I mean I seriously doubt that he knew anything about those women. They were a 'rough' looking bunch when you compared them to the Tennesse team. I heard the broadcast, when it was made, as I occasionally watch Imus on MSNBC. I thought, when I first heard it that he was saying that the Rutger's team was 'hard', or more 'street' than the softer looking Tennessee team.

It a way it was as if he was complimenting them, but only if he were Snoop Dog.

Coming from an old white guy, to some, it sounded like the total opposite.

Let this be a lesson to everyone, "double standards abound."

[shanek]

Our 2004 Senate Candidate, Tom Bailey, made a very interesting observation yesterday:

"I am just so surprised that some people who are not offended at a checkpoint by being assumed a terrorist, and subjected to search without evidence they ever did anything, are offended by mere words."

[Tailgater]

Our 2004 Senate Candidate, Tom Bailey, made a very interesting observation yesterday:

"I am just so surprised that some people who are not offended at a checkpoint by being assumed a terrorist, and subjected to search without evidence they ever did anything, are offended by mere words."

I'm not surprised. They have nothing to do with each other. Cases of someone being assumed a terrorist are isolated incidents. The general public is searched at random. My wife is a minority. If we went to the airport and were searched at a checkpoint, I expect that. If someone came up and called her a spic ho, I would punch them in the face.

The safety of everyone vs being a racist prick? What an idiotic comparison.

[Lonewulf]

Another thread on this?!

What the hell is wrong with you people?!

[Tailgater]

Another thread on this?!

What the hell is wrong with you people?!

I'm sorry. I went a whole day without posting in one of them and broke down.

/slaps self

I'm just waiting to see what Dustin thinks of the "proof" he needed so bad in the Imus idiot thread and I can move on. :D

[RandFan]

I'm sorry. I went a whole day without posting in one of them and broke down.

/slaps self

I'm just waiting to see what Dustin thinks of the "proof" he needed so bad in the Imus idiot thread and I can move on. :DI've got some bad news for you. ;)

Waiting on the second coming might be a more rewarding adventure. I say that as an atheist.

[Lonewulf]

I'm just waiting to see what Dustin thinks of the "proof" he needed so bad in the Imus idiot thread and I can move on. :D

Waiting for Dustin to register evidence against his argument is tantamount to waiting until the end of the known universe.

It ain't happening in our lifetime.

ETA: Haha! Randfan and I were thinking the same thing, about.

[Tailgater]

HaHa. I know it won't register, but the response is guaranteed entertainment.

[Lonewulf]

HaHa. I know it won't register, but the response is guaranteed entertainment.

Yes, but then you have the response to the response, which you then have to wait for Dustin to answer because it's funny, then the response to THAT response, which then... blah blah blah.

Neverending cycle.

Eventually Dustin gets tired, runs out of arguments, and runs away while still acting as if he's scored points. :rolleyes:

[shanek]

I'm not surprised. They have nothing to do with each other. Cases of someone being assumed a terrorist are isolated incidents. The general public is searched at random. My wife is a minority. If we went to the airport and were searched at a checkpoint, I expect that.

Why do you expect that? The government isn't supposed to be able to do that in this country!

[Tailgater]

Why do you expect that? The government isn't supposed to be able to do that in this country!

What exactly are you talking about? Maybe I'm missing something. If you are talking about security at airports and major events, I'm not sure why you don't expect it.:confused:

Note: I don't mind derailing one of the 4-5 Imus threads at this point.:)

[shanek]

What exactly are you talking about? Maybe I'm missing something. If you are talking about security at airports and major events, I'm not sure why you don't expect it.

Amendment IV: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

I happen to think that means something. Being considered a suspected terrorist and subjected to an invasive search without probable cause just because you decide to do the perfectly ordinary, everyday activity of getting on an airplane is completely offensive.

[Tailgater]

Amendment IV: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searche seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

I happen to think that means something. Being considered a suspected terrorist and subjected to an invasive search without probable cause just because you decide to do the perfectly ordinary, everyday activity of getting on an airplane is completely offensive.

You voluntarily suspend those rights to get on the airplane. Same with a concert or sporting event. You don't have to fly. I would not want to get on an airplane where people walked on freely off the street.

[RandFan]

There is no reasonable expectation of privacy or a right to be free from searches if you go to a private place. If you want to come into my house then I can require that you be searched. If you don't like it you don't have to come into my house.

That being said, is the airport public or private? The F.A.A. controls the slots and the airspace but the airport is private.

Of course we could always nationalize the airports and airlines. I'm sure that would make Shane happy. :)

BTW, Shane, I know you've been involved in this argument before and that you are not ignorant of the many arguments on both sides so I have no illusions that I've said anything to convince you of anything.

[shanek]

You voluntarily suspend those rights to get on the airplane.

I do? How?

Same with a concert or sporting event.

In those cases, it's done by private companies protecting themselves. I don't have a problem with that. This is an act of government.

You don't have to fly.

What is it about the act of flying that makes the Fourth Amendment inactive?

I would not want to get on an airplane where people walked on freely off the street.

You don't have to fly.

[shanek]

That being said, is the airport public or private? The F.A.A. controls the slots and the airspace but the airport is private.

Most airports are government run. In any event, the security is run by the TSA, a government agency. There's nothing private about it.

[RandFan]

Most airports are government run. In any event, the security is run by the TSA, a government agency. There's nothing private about it.If I want to let the government run security at my house then that is my perogative. You don't need to come over if you don't want to.

[LeFevre]

Another thread on this?!

What the hell is wrong with you people?!

You people? :mad:

[Lonewulf]

You people? :mad:

As you're responding to this thread, and have obviously read it...

Yes. You people. :mad:

[RandFan]

As you're responding to this thread, and have obviously read it...

Yes. You people. :mad:"You people" is considered to be patronizing and condesending especially when directed towrd minorities. Imus was critisized for saying "you people" when he went on Al Sharpton's show.

[shanek]

If I want to let the government run security at my house then that is my perogative. You don't need to come over if you don't want to.

But what if government says I have to go through that when I go to anyone's house, and they don't get a choice in the matter?

[RandFan]

But what if government says I have to go through that when I go to anyone's house, and they don't get a choice in the matter? Who says you have to go to anyone's house? Who says you have to go to the airport?

[Lonewulf]

"You people" is considered to be patronizing and condesending especially when directed towrd minorities.

I am not directing it towards minorities.

Imus was critisized for saying "you people" when he went on Al Sharpton's show.

Probably because he was using a generalization, and may have been serious when he said it. I was not being serious, and I do believe that others in this thread knew it. If not, then I will say: I was not being serious.

...

Except that there IS something wrong with all of you.

[RandFan]

I am not directing it towards minorities.

Probably because he was using a generalization, and may have been serious when he said it. I was not being serious, and I do believe that others in this thread knew it. If not, then I will say: I was not being serious.

...

Except that there IS something wrong with all of you.:) I think LeFevre was being facetious. But then perhaps you get that.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Eventually Dustin gets tired, runs out of arguments, and runs away while still acting as if he's scored points. :rolleyes:


Give me one example where this has happened.

[Lonewulf]

Give me one example where this has happened.

You certainly gave up on defending your position trying to prove that I was likely to harm another person because of my fantasies, and that I needed immediate psychological evaluation and how my psychologist was wrong (because what you say is Natural Law, even if it overrides the opinion of experts that study their fields -- because you're DUSTIN, THE RIGHT-O MAN!) :)

If you want to re-activate that thread, by all means, do so. You'll just be shown how you're wrong again and again.

[shanek]

Who says you have to go to anyone's house? Who says you have to go to the airport?

So, what, my rights are only limited to what I have to do? Well, gee, I guess political protesters don't have to be there; they can stay at home or go shopping or something. So it's perfectly okay when the government goes in, forces everyone to show IDs, and searches people randomly whenever there's a protest. You'll pardon me if I fail to be convinced.

But okay, we'll play it your way: Let's say I'm a businessman. I've got important business across the country on Tuesday and have to be back on Thursday. How else can I do it? Either I give up my rights, or I can't do business. What kind of choice is that?

[Mycroft]

This is why it's nigh impossible to take your argument seriously, RandFan. This is pure straw. Nobody has suggested anything about "banning" anyone.

That's not exactly true. From the article:

"NBC News announced ... has fired Imus and would cease broadcasting his radio show. But as Media Matters for America has extensively documented, bigotry and hate speech targeting, among other characteristics, race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, and ethnicity continue to permeate the airwaves through personalities such as Glenn Beck, Neal Boortz, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Michael Savage, Michael Smerconish, and John Gibson."

The clear implication is that Media Matters believes it was right to fire Imus, but that by the same standard all these other media personalities should be fired too.

[RandFan]

So, what, my rights are only limited to what I have to do? Hold on, you are going far afield. It's my house. If I want to secure it then that is my right.

Well, gee, I guess political protesters don't have to be there... If they want to protest in a public place then they have that right. My house isn't a public place.

But okay, we'll play it your way: Let's say I'm a businessman. I've got important business across the country on Tuesday and have to be back on Thursday. How else can I do it? Either I give up my rights, or I can't do business. What kind of choice is that? Where in the constitution does it guarantee you the right to get to a destination across the country by Tuesday? The Declaration of Independence holds that you have the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It doesn't say anything about flight plans.

[Dancing David]

Thank you. Thank you.

Ban them. Ban them all. Let's come up with a list of objectional things that we can ban people for.

OR...

Let's chose what we can listen to. The radio and TV come with on off switches and dials.

LISTEN TO SOMETHING ELSE.

Oh, BTW, I don't mind pointing out to people the BS. That's fine. It's fine to get people to listen to something else.

It's so not cool to threaten everyone that if they don't speak squeaky clean they will be fired.


Hmm, I don't recall saying we should ban them. And there are problems with the market controling what is news.

I have never said they shouldn't say stuff, but I do think we should discuss the veracity of some of the polemic that passes for punditry.

I kind of wonder, why now?

(I have my conspiracy theory but I don't want the Illuminati to hear me.Shhh.)

[Dancing David]

Have any of you ever seen "Rush Hour" with Jackie Chan & Chris Tucker?

I think there is a scene that depicts what happens to non-blacks, when they try to use black lingo in he presense of a black man, very well. Moreover, I think this is what happened to Imus...

In the movie Jackie's character finds himself in a 'black' bar, where he approaches the barkeep and asks, "Wazzup my *igga?"

The next thing he knows, he is fighting the entire bar.

Admittedly, I don't listen to a lot of rap or hip hop, but I DO know that within the black culture, you ARE allowed to refer to friends and family as "your *iggas", and calling someone 'nappy-headed' or even a 'ho' can also be done in sport, but NOT if you are white...

It sort of depends, many people of color find it very offensive, most women are offended at being called bitches and ho's. Despite it's prevalence amongst certain black males, thems fightin words.

Then there is the logic of some of my students. ***** is a slang term for a black man, the n*gger word is derogatory.

We have this discussion frequently at school.

Many black people do not use the n-word.

And perhaps some rap is meant to be offensive.

[Dancing David]

Our 2004 Senate Candidate, Tom Bailey, made a very interesting observation yesterday:

"I am just so surprised that some people who are not offended at a checkpoint by being assumed a terrorist, and subjected to search without evidence they ever did anything, are offended by mere words."

Um, some of us have protested the abuses of civil liberties. i would be very offended if I lost a job or couldn't get a loan because my name happened to match some watch list.

[Dancing David]

...

Except that there IS something wrong with all of you.


Hey i resemble that remark!

BTW this thread is not about Imus. :grin:

[RandFan]

Hmm, I don't recall saying we should ban them. From another post.

I readily concede the straw. I was using the same hyperbole that Frank Zappa used in his mothers of prevention tour. He's probably much better in his timing so perhaps I should stick to my own shtick.

My words were intentionally chosen to provoke discussion. I concede that it was hyperbolic but I want people to consider the very real and serious consequences of the road we have momentarily chosen to go down.

I'm willing to engage in hyperbole and fallacy for rhetorical purposes and I don't mind at all being called out on it if I can get people to see the problems inherent in silencing speech.

[LostAngeles]

Thank you. Thank you.

Ban them. Ban them all. Let's come up with a list of objectional things that we can ban people for.

OR...

Let's chose what we can listen to. The radio and TV come with on off switches and dials.

LISTEN TO SOMETHING ELSE.

Oh, BTW, I don't mind pointing out to people the BS. That's fine. It's fine to get people to listen to something else.

It's so not cool to threaten everyone that if they don't speak squeaky clean they will be fired.

I completely agree. My boyfriend likes to listen to KFI just to get pissed off where as it brings me to new levels of rage (For the record, I'm past my tolerance of stupidity point. Thank Sorority Row).

So I change the channel.

And invariably hear something immediately along the the lines of, "Exit the warrior/Today's Tom Sawyer/He get high on you...."

When it comes down to Geddy's voice or Savage raging about, "Red Doper Diaper Babies," it's not much of a choice. Sometimes I can't stand being reminded of all the stupidity that exists in the world.

Still, there's a difference between what comes out of these guy's mouths and someone dropping the n-word. When someone drops a slur like that, it carries with it the implication that if something terrible happened to you, it would make that person very happy. Hence, they are both stupid and malevolent. When someone utters a stereotype or something idiotic like these radio and TV hosts tend to do, it tends to imply an ignorance in the case of regular folk and either ignorance or a desire for attention on the part of the media persona. The implication of malevolence or ill will is not necessarily there.

Except, very possibly, in the case of Michael Savage. O'Reilly and Limbaugh are blowhards. Beck's a wannabe. Something is seriously wrong with Michael Savage. I simply hope he's just whoring himself out to the extreme ends of the right wing.

BTW, feel free to take Rosie O'Donnell. If you cringe when you hear these blowhards act like they're speaking for you on the right, I feel the same way about her. And often Michael Moore. And Bill Maher.

Just let us keep Henry Rollins.

[Dancing David]

That's not exactly true. From the article:

"NBC News announced ... has fired Imus and would cease broadcasting his radio show. But as Media Matters for America has extensively documented, bigotry and hate speech targeting, among other characteristics, race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, and ethnicity continue to permeate the airwaves through personalities such as Glenn Beck, Neal Boortz, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Michael Savage, Michael Smerconish, and John Gibson."

The clear implication is that Media Matters believes it was right to fire Imus, but that by the same standard all these other media personalities should be fired too.


Mycroft, i am shocked that someone is adressing the OP! Thank you!

Yeah, Brock and crew are definitely over the top but some of the citations of the pundits are fairly laughable as well.

[LostAngeles]

As you're responding to this thread, and have obviously read it...

Yes. You people. :mad:

"You people" is considered to be patronizing and condesending especially when directed towrd minorities. Imus was critisized for saying "you people" when he went on Al Sharpton's show.

Once upon a time, when I worked at an arcade, there was a black woman who came in with her kids and would always, always try to start crap with us. In fact, after being shut down yet again for whatever she was trying to scam out of us, she threw a skeeball at me while I was fixing a machine. She was pretty much a bitch.

So one night, there she is at my counter, running her damn mouth about how, "you people," try to cheat our customers. Here's little mulatto me, counting up her tickets and here's my white boss standing next to me. And I'm thinking real hard about taking that and running across the Field O' Offendedness. Cause damn, that'd be some funny sh** right there.

Alas, I chose to keep my mouth shut.

Then I hear, "If you hate us so much, why do you keep coming here?"

She kept coming.

[Dorian Gray]

Note to people who want to start a new thread because they think they have a new twist on the Imus fiasco:

No you f**king don't.

[LostAngeles]

Note to people who want to start a new thread because they think they have a new twist on the Imus fiasco:

No you f**king don't.

I do too!

Don Imus is actually a Tyrannosaurus Rex that's a robot that's controlled by Jared Diamond in an attempt to steal the R'tag diamond that's the biggest in the world to carry out his master plan as outlined in the book Collapse. But The Rutgers Women's Basketball Team managed, with the help of their trusty sidekick and pal, Copty, the minature penguin helicopter, to foil Keith Olbermann's robbery of Fort Knox with his army of living little kids' drawings.

What say you know?

[Tailgater]

I do too!

Don Imus is actually a Tyrannosaurus Rex that's a robot that's controlled by Jared Diamond in an attempt to steal the R'tag diamond that's the biggest in the world to carry out his master plan as outlined in the book Collapse. But The Rutgers Women's Basketball Team managed, with the help of their trusty sidekick and pal, Copty, the minature penguin helicopter, to foil Keith Olbermann's robbery of Fort Knox with his army of living little kids' drawings.

What say you know?

As long as it's in one of the seven or more existing threads, I have no problem with it.:D

[Lonewulf]

I do too!

Don Imus is actually a Tyrannosaurus Rex that's a robot that's controlled by Jared Diamond in an attempt to steal the R'tag diamond that's the biggest in the world to carry out his master plan as outlined in the book Collapse. But The Rutgers Women's Basketball Team managed, with the help of their trusty sidekick and pal, Copty, the minature penguin helicopter, to foil Keith Olbermann's robbery of Fort Knox with his army of living little kids' drawings.

What say you know?

...

You win.

[shanek]

Hold on, you are going far afield. It's my house. If I want to secure it then that is my right.

But we're not talking about that. We're talking about the government saying you must secure your house, and secure it their way, using their personnel. That's the situation at the airports.

I've already said if it were just the airline companies doing it I wouldn't complain.

Where in the constitution does it guarantee you the right to get to a destination across the country by Tuesday?

9th Amendment. If I have the means of doing so, and those means involve other people who are agreeable to the arrangement, then the government has no business stopping me.

Really, I thought you knew better than that. The Constitution limits government, not the people. And the Fourth Amendment specifically says they can't do it!

[shanek]

Um, some of us have protested the abuses of civil liberties. i would be very offended if I lost a job or couldn't get a loan because my name happened to match some watch list.

He did say some people. It wasn't a blanket statement.

[Dancing David]

Note to people who want to start a new thread because they think they have a new twist on the Imus fiasco:

No you f**king don't.

You will note that Imus only appears in the title and the phrase "not just Imus" in the OP. Hmph, this is not a thread about Imus. Oh noodly one. Perhaps you have some marinara in your eyes.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

You certainly gave up on defending your position trying to prove that I was likely to harm another person because of my fantasies, and that I needed immediate psychological evaluation and how my psychologist was wrong (because what you say is Natural Law, even if it overrides the opinion of experts that study their fields -- because you're DUSTIN, THE RIGHT-O MAN!) :)

If you want to re-activate that thread, by all means, do so. You'll just be shown how you're wrong again and again.

I've been posting in that thread frequently. If you want to address my last posts and actually provide evidence then do so.

[Mephisto]

I've been posting in that thread frequently. If you want to address my last posts and actually provide evidence then do so.

Speaking of providing evidence, we're still waiting for you to provide evidence that "nappy-headed" is a slur used equally against Caucasions since the civil war.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Speaking of providing evidence, we're still waiting for you to provide evidence that "nappy-headed" is a slur used equally against Caucasions since the civil war.


As soon as you provide evidence that "Nappy-headed" is a slur used against blacks since the civil war. Actual historical sources. You can't expect me to provide proof when you won't.

[Mephisto]

As soon as you provide evidence that "Nappy-headed" is a slur used against blacks since the civil war. Actual historical sources. You can't expect me to provide proof when you won't.

Well let's see some proof, Dustin. I provided you with a link to an article written by an associate professor of anthropology and American studies and ethnicity at the University of Southern California, let's see you prove your assertion.

Let's see you prove that "nappy" has been used to malign Caucasions.

I already did that - you called it an appeal to authority. Let's see your "appeal to authority," let's see some proof that Caucasions are called nappy-headed by anyone but yourself, let's see your proof that nappy-headed is also a slur against Caucasions.

[Lonewulf]

I already did that - you called it an appeal to authority.

I hope Dustin never has to go to the doctor.

"Well, son, it looks like you have cancer."
'Prove it.'
"Er, well, I'm a medical doctor..."
'Appeal to authority. Therefore, I don't have cancer. Good day!'
"...Um? Yes, you do have cancer. As these test results show..."
'Prove that these tests were utterly reliable.'
"Uhhh? Why did you come here in the first place?"
'Well, they were offering free lollipops...'

Apparently, Dustin doesn't know that "appeal to authority" has an assumed word left out: Appeal to unsupported authority.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Having a "associate professor of anthropology and American studies and ethnicity at the University of Southern California" say that "Nappy" was historically used as a pejorative against African Americans since the civil war doesn't help one bit unless actual historical sources are provided. Without them, I have no reason to believe what is said. If a doctor said I had cancer then I would probably take a look at the results myself, then I would get a second opinion. If both doctors and both separate results showed I had cancer then I would accept it. However in this case here we've got one person claiming something and no actual evidence. Just a claim.

[Lonewulf]

If a doctor said I had cancer then I would probably take a look at the results myself, then I would get a second opinion.

So appeal to double authority!

If both doctors and both separate results showed I had cancer then I would accept it. However in this case here we've got one person claiming something and no actual evidence. Just a claim.

Fine, fine.

Have any evidence that "nappy-haired" has been used as an insult or attack against a caucasion?

[Dustin Kesselberg]

So appeal to double authority!

I'd want to see the tests first.




Have any evidence that "nappy-haired" has been used as an insult or attack against a caucasion?

Should I bring any of my relatives on here who call me "greasy" or "nappy" haired monkey on an almost daily basis?(Of course they don't mean it to be "curly" but just "dirty", Likely what Imus meant) I don't think that would be possible though.
Just google "Nappy haired" and you'll get a few results up showing Caucasians with nappy hair.

[LostAngeles]

I'd want to see the tests first.



Should I bring any of my relatives on here who call me "greasy" or "nappy" haired monkey on an almost daily basis?(Of course they don't mean it to be "curly" but just "dirty", Likely what Imus meant) I don't think that would be possible though.
Just google "Nappy haired" and you'll get a few results up showing Caucasians with nappy hair.

Along with, "monkey?" And you don't think that's racist? Even if you are white and they're calling you that?

By the way, I'm on Page 5. No sign of any Caucasians yet. I hit images and I get Imus, Einstein, and two white women in purple wigs at a game. I'm looking at a lot of black people though...

[Tailgater]

Along with, "monkey?" And you don't think that's racist? Even if you are white and they're calling you that?

By the way, I'm on Page 5. No sign of any Caucasians yet. I hit images and I get Imus, Einstein, and two white women in purple wigs at a game. I'm looking at a lot of black people though...

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2521579#post2521579

Good luck. Unbelievable, this arguement is still going. Have fun running in a circular arguement for the next few pages. Later, you will get sucked back in when he tries to tell you that "ho" is not associated mostly with women.

[shanek]

Along with, "monkey?" And you don't think that's racist? Even if you are white and they're calling you that?

Hey, there's no reason that has to be racist! I'm taking it back!!! [/Clerks2]

[Lonewulf]

Should I bring any of my relatives on here who call me "greasy" or "nappy" haired monkey on an almost daily basis?

Anecdotal. Means nothing when talking vernacular. For all you know, I have a group of friends that call each other "kike" for the fun of it, even though none of them are Jewish. That does not keep "Kike" from being a racial slur.

(Of course they don't mean it to be "curly" but just "dirty", Likely what Imus meant)

I'd say that it's speculation to claim what Imus did and did not mean. Did he state that he did mean it as a racial slur, for that matter?

[LostAngeles]

Hey, there's no reason that has to be racist! I'm taking it back!!! [/Clerks2]

Do you have a receipt?

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Along with, "monkey?" And you don't think that's racist? Even if you are white and they're calling you that?

I don't see it as racist. I call people "Monkey" all of the time regardless of race. I do however believe that only a racist person would consider "Monkey" to actually be racist. Who else but a racist could relate "Monkey" to other races?

By the way, I'm on Page 5. No sign of any Caucasians yet. I hit images and I get Imus, Einstein, and two white women in purple wigs at a game. I'm looking at a lot of black people though...

Firstly, Einstein is Caucasian.

Secondly, Page 2 picture 6 (http://images.google.com/images?q=Nappy+headed&gbv=2&svnum=10&hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&start=20&sa=N&ndsp=20).

On the 3rd page you get this picture...

http://www.achievement.org/achievers/don0/large/don0-005.jpg

[andyandy]

Should I bring any of my relatives on here who call me "greasy" or "nappy" haired monkey on an almost daily basis?(Of course they don't mean it to be "curly" but just "dirty", Likely what Imus meant.

don't worry....it's just an adolescent phase that comes from the over production of oil from the glands beneath the skin. By the time you get to your twenties, your hormones normally sort themselves out :)

[Dustin Kesselberg]

don't worry....it's just an adolescent phase that comes from the over production of oil from the glands beneath the skin. By the time you get to your twenties, your hormones normally sort themselves out :)


No, It's because I put pomade in my hair.

[Gurdur]

I don't see it as racist. I call people "Monkey" all of the time regardless of race.
Let me guess.
You have no friends, and you don't actually talk much at all with anyone in person. Probably just as well, for your sake.

[LostAngeles]

I don't see it as racist. I call people "Monkey" all of the time regardless of race. I do however believe that only a racist person would consider "Monkey" to actually be racist. Who else but a racist could relate "Monkey" to other races?


I can tell how white you are, now. Google, "porch monkey."

Firstly, Einstein is Caucasian.

Secondly, Page 2 picture 6 (http://images.google.com/images?q=Nappy+headed&gbv=2&svnum=10&hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&start=20&sa=N&ndsp=20).

On the 3rd page you get this picture...

http://www.achievement.org/achievers/don0/large/don0-005.jpg

No kidding Einstein's white. So's Imus. And those other two chicks I mentioned. If you had reading comprehension, you'd have grasped I pointed out the exceptions.

Einstein and Imus are on page 2. I didn't get that picture you put up on Page 3 either.

Went up to page 7, still saw a lot of black people.

No wonder people consider talking to you a waste of time.

Unless...

crimresearch, is that you?

[NoZed Avenger]

<Media Matters enters from stage left, holding a scroll>

<cue music>

As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list--I've got a little list

Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed--who never would be missed!

There's the pestilential nuisances who talk on radio--
All people who flak for votes and promise votes for dough--
All persons who offend and don't watch what they say--
All unenlightened persons who stand in progress' way --
And all that when they should agree are always saying nay--
They'd none of 'em be missed--they'd none of 'em be missed!

CHORUS. He's got 'em on the list--he's got 'em on the list;
And they'll none of 'em be missed--they'll none of
'em be missed.

[Dorian Gray]

I'm hijacking this thread and making it be about how Katie Couric and CBS plagiarized a column from the Wall Street Journal for a video blog read by Katie Couric in the first person. That's a real scandal, and this right wing and/or left wing media is just completely ignoring it.

[Dancing David]

Thank you Mikado, except for the fact that the right wing pundits scream free speach when it applies only to thier right to be stupid. When it comes to Media Matters exercising thier right to be stupid then there is suddenly this problem.

If you go to Media matters you will see that they havre about forty reports on Imus going back three years, they were soundly ignored for most of the time.

What about Rathergate and all the other wonderful things right wing pundits have done to suppress free speach.

Believe me the Publicans keep a list as well, I think they are more likely to use it as well. especialy when it comes to squelching peace protests.

The issue is that the bully boys screamed free market when they were in power and using it to insult people, now that the shoe is possibly on the other foot they scream "Foul!"

(I am exagerating by a large amount.)

[LostAngeles]

I'm hijacking this thread and making it be about how Katie Couric and CBS plagiarized a column from the Wall Street Journal for a video blog read by Katie Couric in the first person. That's a real scandal, and this right wing and/or left wing media is just completely ignoring it.

Really? Cite, please?

[NoZed Avenger]

Thank you Mikado, except for the fact that the right wing pundits scream free speach when it applies only to thier right to be stupid. When it comes to Media Matters exercising thier right to be stupid then there is suddenly this problem.



Is there a problem with my "free speech" on this subject, or is this a way of using double-secret irony by saying that I shouldn't state an opinion on them stating an opinion?

And when I read through a thread on right-wing bloviaters instead of left-wing bloviaters, they'll get their own verse. I wasn't aware I have to add "And Limbaugh is a big jerk, too" before being allowed to talk about media matters.



btw: Limbaugh is a big jerk, too.

[NoZed Avenger]

Re: Couric Plagiarism

Really? Cite, please?


http://www.woai.com/mostpopular/story.aspx?content_id=a3d58ad9-5d11-4491-9c74-e69cd5338ed3

(short article, but it gives the basics. An added bonus is that Katie read the essay in first person, giving the impression that the thing was written by her based on personal experience)

[Dustin Kesselberg]

I can tell how white you are, now. Google, "porch monkey."



No kidding Einstein's white. So's Imus. And those other two chicks I mentioned. If you had reading comprehension, you'd have grasped I pointed out the exceptions.

Einstein and Imus are on page 2. I didn't get that picture you put up on Page 3 either.

Went up to page 7, still saw a lot of black people.

No wonder people consider talking to you a waste of time.

Unless...

crimresearch, is that you?


What you said was...


By the way, I'm on Page 5. No sign of any Caucasians yet. I hit images and I get Imus, Einstein, and two white women in purple wigs at a game. I'm looking at a lot of black people though...

Since Einstein, the women in purple and Imus are all white, How doesn't this contradict your claim that there are "No signs of Caucasians"?

[LostAngeles]

What you said was...



Since Einstein, the women in purple and Imus are all white, How doesn't this contradict your claim that there are "No signs of Caucasians"?

Sorry, that was my error in speech. I probably should have inserted the word, "real," between, "no," and, "signs." Four people out of a several pages of about 20 each on each page isn't that much. The term, "nappy," still tend to refer to the hair of black people. For more info, go to your local library and check out the book, "Nappy Hair."

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Sorry, that was my error in speech. I probably should have inserted the word, "real," between, "no," and, "signs." Four people out of a several pages of about 20 each on each page isn't that much. The term, "nappy," still tend to refer to the hair of black people. For more info, go to your local library and check out the book, "Nappy Hair."


I know about that book. The point I was making is that "Nappy" isn't used distinctively to refer to African Americans. It's often used to refer to whites as well. Imus isn't a racist and the discussion wasn't racist and even the definition of the word doesn't signify racism necessarily. So then how could anyone claim that what he said was racist I ask you?

[LostAngeles]

I know about that book. The point I was making is that "Nappy" isn't used distinctively to refer to African Americans. It's often used to refer to whites as well. Imus isn't a racist and the discussion wasn't racist and even the definition of the word doesn't signify racism necessarily. So then how could anyone claim that what he said was racist I ask you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nappy

Have you read that? "Nappy" refers to very tightly curled hair. What ethnic group has very tightly curled hair?

Imus's comment was ignorant and stupid. Frankly, calling them, "ho's," was the substantially worse part of his comment.

[Lonewulf]

Are you people still arguing about this? Jeez.

And I thought I had no life.

[NoZed Avenger]

Are you people still arguing about this? Jeez.

And I thought I had no life.


To mangle Obi-Wan:

Who is more lifeless, the ones with no life or the one that reads through pages of their crap on the internet?



:)

[Dancing David]

Is there a problem with my "free speech" on this subject, or is this a way of using double-secret irony by saying that I shouldn't state an opinion on them stating an opinion?

And when I read through a thread on right-wing bloviaters instead of left-wing bloviaters, they'll get their own verse. I wasn't aware I have to add "And Limbaugh is a big jerk, too" before being allowed to talk about media matters.



btw: Limbaugh is a big jerk, too.


I am sorry for being snarky. I thought you were another in the chorus condemning any one for critquing Imus, I will read more carefully.

On Media Matters thier agenda is obvious but the reporting( -editorial) is interesting.

I am sorry.
<cue>

Karl Rove is keeping score, attorneys out the door
Palmes just a bore and scrubbing on the floor
Libby took the fall for Cheny's bad call
G. Bush is going for the Iraq push
any who question are just a douche

They have a little list, they never will be missed....
<and so on>

[Cleon]

Dustin, please watch Clerks 2. For your own good.

[NoZed Avenger]

I am sorry for being snarky. I thought you were another in the chorus condemning any one for critquing Imus, I will read more carefully.

On Media Matters thier agenda is obvious but the reporting( -editorial) is interesting.

I am sorry.
<cue>

Karl Rove is keeping score, attorneys out the door
Palmes just a bore and scrubbing on the floor
Libby took the fall for Cheny's bad call
G. Bush is going for the Iraq push
any who question are just a douche

They have a little list, they never will be missed....
<and so on>

Not bad.

And thanks for the response -- appreciated.

[Cleon]

On Media Matters thier agenda is obvious but the reporting( -editorial) is interesting.

Their agenda is obvious, but I think you have to admit that they're fair. They don't take quotes out of context, they explain why they find something outrageous or wrong, they acknowledge when their targets apologize or retract their statements, and they don't engage in shrill rhetoric like calling people "racist" (they seem to prefer to let their targets' words speak for themselves, a healthy policy IMO).

[Dancing David]

Their agenda is obvious, but I think you have to admit that they're fair. They don't take quotes out of context, they explain why they find something outrageous or wrong, they acknowledge when their targets apologize or retract their statements, and they don't engage in shrill rhetoric like calling people "racist" (they seem to prefer to let their targets' words speak for themselves, a healthy policy IMO).

Total agreement!

I like fair.org, rightwingwatch.org and prwatch.org as well.

[shanek]

Dustin, please watch Clerks 2. For your own good.

Hmmmm...maybe Dustin is Randal Graves? It would explain a lot.

[Lonewulf]

To mangle Obi-Wan:

Who is more lifeless, the ones with no life or the one that reads through pages of their crap on the internet?



:)

Reading takes less effort. D'uh.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nappy

Have you read that? "Nappy" refers to very tightly curled hair. What ethnic group has very tightly curled hair?

Imus's comment was ignorant and stupid. Frankly, calling them, "ho's," was the substantially worse part of his comment.


Whites can have nappy hair as well. Imus has nappy hair.

[LostAngeles]

Whites can have nappy hair as well. Imus has nappy hair.

Since you just avoided the question, I have suggestion.

I got five bucks here. If you walk up to a friend of your's who's black and call him a, "nappy-headed monkey," as you're supposedly called, and post the result on YouTube, the fiver is yours.

Otherwise:

http://www.roflcat.com/images/cats/AngryCat.jpg (http://www.roflcat.com)

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Since you just avoided the question, I have suggestion.

I got five bucks here. If you walk up to a friend of your's who's black and call him a, "nappy-headed monkey," as you're supposedly called, and post the result on YouTube, the fiver is yours.

Otherwise:



http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/nappy
Tightly curled or twisted; kinky (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kinky).

[Dancing David]

Whites can have nappy hair as well. Imus has nappy hair.


Uhm huh. that is up there with God's End saying that it is okay to be antisemite because he is jewish.

Your argument is just wrods without consideration of the implications.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Uhm huh. that is up there with God's End saying that it is okay to be antisemite because he is jewish.

Your argument is just wrods without consideration of the implications.

Making fun of someones hair is like being antisemitic now?:confused: