NY Times' Frank Rich Blasts Mel Gibson,Drudge,James Hirsen for supporting JESUS film

[billiefan2000]

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/8/3/120118.shtml

and what is your opinion on the contorversy around the film THE PASSION.

[Lord Emsworth]

What is yours Billiefan2000?

[billiefan2000]

I think it should shock people that the Atheistic Left and others who hate JESUS and in particular the Evolution and Humanism Pushers seem upset about this film and they wont say why,other than:


it may cause Anti-Semitism.


That is a lie,cause:


Jesus was a jew as were the Apostles and many of the first Christians in the Church.


Matt Drudge and Michael Medved and other jews support this film and didnt see any Anti-Semitism in it.


The Liberal Media isnt asking what Jewish Christians or Messianic Jews like ZOLA LEVITT or SID ROTH what there opinions is on this film.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
I think it should shock people that the Atheistic Left and others who hate JESUS and in particular the Evolution and Humanism Pushers seem upset about this film and they wont say why,other than:


it may cause Anti-Semitism.


That is a lie,cause:


Jesus was a jew as were the Apostles and many of the first Christians in the Church.


Matt Drudge and Michael Medved and other jews support this film and didnt see any Anti-Semitism in it.


The Liberal Media isnt asking what Jewish Christians or Messianic Jews like ZOLA LEVITT or SID ROTH what there opinions is on this film.

I think you overestimate the effect the film has on non-believers. As both an Atheist and an "Evolution Pusher" (to use your words", I am not in the least upset about the film, merely disinterested. My reaction isn't, "OH NO!!! They're making a film about the life of Jesus! WHatever am I going to do?!?!?!?", as you seem to imply. My reaction is more along the lines of "Mel Gibson is making is trying to bring back the biblical epic. <yawn>"

There are much more intresting works of fiction than The Bible that could be made into film

[billiefan2000]

That is your opinion if you think the bible is fiction.

Evolution is the biggest load of fiction out there,and I dont see Atheists attacking the Evolution lies that people have had shoved dopwn their throats.


But I want to ask you something:


if Atheists and Evolutionists arent offeneded by this film:


How come then Atheists arent showing their support or telling those who have a problem with this film to shut up then?


Answer me that question.

[Martin]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
Evolution is the biggest load of fiction out thereAnd your scientific evidence for this is?How come then Atheists arent showing their support or telling those who have a problem with this film to shut up then?Because we don't care. Simple, really. We don't give a damn.

[Lord Emsworth]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
if Atheists and Evolutionists arent offeneded by this film:


How come then Atheists arent showing their support or telling those who have a problem with this film to shut up then?


Disinterest! At least from my side. Let people do whatever they like with, about, against that movie.

And don't forget, Atheism is no collective movement. Lots of opinions there. As far as I can see almost every Atheist has his or her own.

Own opinions are wonderful!

[DeathToSophists]

Bfan; what was your response to The Last Temptation of Christ? Did you boycott it? Make a stink?

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
That is your opinion if you think the bible is fiction.

Evolution is the biggest load of fiction out there,and I dont see Atheists attacking the Evolution lies that people have had shoved dopwn their throats.


But I want to ask you something:


if Atheists and Evolutionists arent offeneded by this film:


How come then Atheists arent showing their support or telling those who have a problem with this film to shut up then?


Answer me that question.

Firstly Evolution is a demonstrable fact. If you choose not to accept it and belive instead in creation myths, that is your perogotive.

Secondly the reason Atheists (and other disinterested parties) don't support the film and tellpeople that have a problem with it to shut up is simple. Disinterest means exactly what it sounds like, we have no interest in the film. If someone wants to go see it, I wouldn't dream of stopping them. But assure you my own eight bucks will be going toward a film that I actually want to see.

I have no interest in seeing "Gigli" either. By your logic I should be promoting that film and telling all the people that are calling it garbage to shut up. It's nonsensical.

[Pahansiri]

One must wonder how billiefan2000 support a movie about Mohammed or Buddha or Krishna etc? How would he react if these films were being attacked?

One must assume from past behavior it would be billiefan2000 doing the attacking with his well known hate speech towards anything non-Christian.

Sad he believes anyone who says anything that does not fall within his belief is a Jesus / Christian hater etc, he tells how everyone who does not believe as he does is Anti-Semitism or Anti-Christian.

YET, billiefan2000 very proudly anti-Muslim, Arab, Atheist etc, etc , etc the list is long.

Our friend feels hate is bad if it hate ( or perceived hate) towards something he holds dear and he is right but he believes hate is a good and right thing if it is towards someone or something others hold dear.

Sad really, he does not really mean to be this but billiefan2000 is clearly the most or one of the most hateful people here, and of course a hypocrite.

:(

[Charlie Monoxide]

Errr, blatant right-wing "news" sites hurt my eyes.

Charlie (hair slicked back, wayfarers on) Monoxide

[Hexxenhammer]

Well Billy, I'm an atheist and I kinda want to see it. I saw some production pictures in Entertainment Weekly and one had Jesus (played by that guy that played the Count of Monte Cristo last year) up on the cross drenched in blood.
But I don't understand how this movie could convert anyone because only about .000001% of the population will understand it since its in Aramaic and Latin with no subtitles. I guess I could take a copy of the New Testament and try to follow along...

[HarryKeogh]

Originally posted by Hexxenhammer

But I don't understand how this movie could convert anyone because only about .000001% of the population will understand it since its in Aramaic and Latin with no subtitles. I guess I could take a copy of the New Testament and try to follow along...

from what i've read the studios refused to allow mel gibson to release the movie with no subtitles.

shame, that would have been hysterical.

[calladus]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
That is your opinion if you think the bible is fiction.

Evolution is the biggest load of fiction out there,and I dont see Atheists attacking the Evolution lies that people have had shoved dopwn their throats.


But I want to ask you something:


if Atheists and Evolutionists arent offeneded by this film:


How come then Atheists arent showing their support or telling those who have a problem with this film to shut up then?


Answer me that question.

Because I have a BETTER film to promote! One with a sound track record, good story, snappy music.

I support "Life of Brian!"

For those who are MST3K fans, I would suggest, "Jesus Christ, Vampire killer."

It's kinda long, and the kung-fu scenes are pretty laughable - but if you turn down the sound and make fun of it, it's not too bad.

[Ruby]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/8/3/120118.shtml

and what is your opinion on the contorversy around the film THE PASSION.

It's not the only movie to ever be surrounded by controversy.

I want to see it, but not sure I could stomach the violence.:jedi:

[Ruby]

Originally posted by Hexxenhammer
[B]Well Billy, I'm an atheist and I kinda want to see it. I saw some production pictures in Entertainment Weekly and one had Jesus (played by that guy that played the Count of Monte Cristo last year) up on the cross drenched in blood.


James Caviezel...I think. He's pretty cute!!;)

[Tormac]

I'm still mad about Gibson's movie "Signs". If he did a movie that I think needs to be protested, that is the one.


Its hard for me to get worked up about a movie that I don't know much about (The Passion), especially since the people who are getting worked up over it also do not seem to know much about the movie. Maybe once the movie is released and I've actually seen it, I may get worked up over it one-way or the other.

Oh, and calladus, you have my nod for the "Life of Brian", its a wonderful movie.

[Hexxenhammer]

Originally posted by HarryKeogh


from what i've read the studios refused to allow mel gibson to release the movie with no subtitles.

shame, that would have been hysterical.
Yeah, too bad. think about adding your own subtitles. The comic possibilities are endless.

[hgc]

Originally posted by rapturetroll2000

I think it should shock people that the Atheistic Left and others who hate JESUS and in particular the Evolution and Humanism Pushers seem upset about this film and they wont say why,other than:rapturetroll2000 thinks that to not like what Mel Gibson is up to is to HATE JESUS. Care to consider any other possibilities?it may cause Anti-Semitism. That is a lie,cause:Here, rapturetroll2000, besides displaying his illiteracy, actually has another reason that people might not like this movie, but will immediately dismiss it (stay tuned)...Jesus was a jew as were the Apostles and many of the first Christians in the Church.You see, rapturetroll2000, modern Jew-baiters such as yourself make a very definite distinction between those Jews who accept Jesus (or are Jesus) and those who don't. As a matter of fact, the good-ole Euros who invented the mideival passion play knew Jesus was a Jew, but it didn't stop them from killing Jews for killing Jesus, did it? Were you aware of that?Matt Drudge and Michael Medved and other jews support this film and didnt see any Anti-Semitism in it.Hey, for all I know, there isn't any anti-semitism in it, but for some reason, Mel will only screen the movie for people who are like to support his cause because they happen to be conservatives, ie, Drudge and Medved. As a matter of fact, that's one of Rich's chief complaints -- that Gibson is denying that its bad stuff, is showing it to some people, but not to anyone who may be critical of him. That, in combination with the contents of a screenplay that was leaked last spring, make some people very nervous about the content of the movie. You know, the screenplay that played up the good old stereotypes of Jews as money-grubbing Jesus killers. But, oh, I forgot that you didn't actually read Rich's article.The Liberal Media isnt asking what Jewish Christians or Messianic Jews like ZOLA LEVITT or SID ROTH what there opinions is on this film.Hmmm. Maybe because "Jewish Christians" and "Messianic Jews" aren't actually Jews, having converted to Christianity.

[billiefan2000]

Originally posted by Martinm
And your scientific evidence for this is?Because we don't care. Simple, really. We don't give a damn.

Martin,what evidence is there to prove evolution.

Many Scientists have said it is a bunch of b.s.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by billiefan2000


Martin,what evidence is there to prove evolution.

Many Scientists have said it is a bunch of b.s.

There is plenty of evidence for evolution, i.e. the entire fossil record. Take a biology class.

It is true enough that some scientists do have said evolution is BS. But many more have said that the creation myth is BS, so what is your point?

[billiefan2000]

Originally posted by DeathToSophists
Bfan; what was your response to The Last Temptation of Christ? Did you boycott it? Make a stink?

I wasnt around and why is it okay by Humanists and Liberals to make films that mocks JESUS CHRIST such as:

DOGMA and LAST TEMPATION OF CHRIST


but:


if JESUS CHRIST is portrayed in a Non-Mocking matter then:


Atheists and Humanists and Liberal Jews and Liberal Christians seem to be angered.

[calladus]

Originally posted by billiefan2000


Martin,what evidence is there to prove evolution.

Many Scientists have said it is a bunch of b.s.
Which version of creation do you believe in? Do you actively disbelieve in other versions of creation, or do you consider them as possible?

[Hexxenhammer]

Originally posted by billiefan2000


Martin,what evidence is there to prove evolution.

Many Scientists have said it is a bunch of b.s.
Holy hell. If you ask for evidence to prove evolution, you only prove that you're to frickin' stupid to understand it yourself.
"Descent with modification!" Do you hear me? "Descent with modification!"
You need a fairy-tale to make you feel like you're special because you can believe its true without needing to think for yourself.

[billiefan2000]

Originally posted by Hexxenhammer
Well Billy, I'm an atheist and I kinda want to see it. I saw some production pictures in Entertainment Weekly and one had Jesus (played by that guy that played the Count of Monte Cristo last year) up on the cross drenched in blood.
But I don't understand how this movie could convert anyone because only about .000001% of the population will understand it since its in Aramaic and Latin with no subtitles. I guess I could take a copy of the New Testament and try to follow along...

It will have sub titles and I think the words:

A PICTURE is worth a 1000 Words is something we should remember.


If the movie aint going to convert anyone,then how come the Intolerant Liberals out there seem bothered by this film.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by billiefan2000


Martin,what evidence is there to prove evolution.
Your ability to ignore scientific evidence does NOT invalidate evolution.

Also, there is mountains of evidence supporting evolution: genology, biology, ecology, science, and millions and millions of years to work that Darwin mojo... get this, there is a WHOLE unit in your standard Highschool biology book about evolution.

If it helps at all, can you provide for all of here at the boards, any evidence that would support creationism or at the very least, intelligent design?

Many Scientists have said it is a bunch of b.s.
First, making of facts right off the top of your head doesnt make for a very strong arguement does it, billiefan?

Second, those scientists make up a very small percentage of the scientific field.

And dont undermine evolution by making statements like that. If a scientist does happen to think evolution is "b.s" it does NOT (look how you made me use caps) suggest he believes in creationism.

Think logically and rationally, billiefan.

[no one in particular]

Originally posted by billiefan2000


Martin,what evidence is there to prove evolution.

Many Scientists have said it is a bunch of b.s. How many of them are named Steve (http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/steve/)?

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by billiefan2000


If the movie aint going to convert anyone,then how come the Intolerant Liberals out there seem bothered by this film.

I think it has been said saveral times by several people and you have chosen to ignore it, Liberals, Atheists whatever group you choose to name are not bothered by the film in general. Certain individuals may be bothered some aspect or other but that is going to be true of nearly ANY film you can name, from Disney to porn. I think you are being deliberately obtuse.

[Hexxenhammer]

Originally posted by billiefan2000


It will have sub titles and I think the words:

A PICTURE is worth a 1000 Words is something we should remember.


If the movie aint going to convert anyone,then how come the Intolerant Liberals out there seem bothered by this film.
"Intolerant liberal" is usually an oxymoron.

Like I said, I'm not bothered by this movie. No more than I'm bothered by The Ten Commandments, or Ben Hur, or The Greatest Story Ever Told. I doubt these movie ever converted anyone either.

[billiefan2000]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep


I think it has been said saveral times by several people and you have chosen to ignore it, Liberals, Atheists whatever group you choose to name are not bothered by the film in general. Certain individuals may be bothered some aspect or other but that is going to be true of nearly ANY film you can name, from Disney to porn. I think you are being deliberately obtuse.

Nyarlathotep:


You are a liar then,cause all the people who have been slaming the film are Liberals and in particular those who are Atheists or Humanists.


Explain that then?

[billiefan2000]

Originally posted by Hexxenhammer

"Intolerant liberal" is usually an oxymoron.

Like I said, I'm not bothered by this movie. No more than I'm bothered by The Ten Commandments, or Ben Hur, or The Greatest Story Ever Told. I doubt these movie ever converted anyone either.

Hexxenhammer you maybe right on the Ben Hur thing,but what bothers me is:


If Liberals and Atheists arent offended by this film then why the smear campaing then?


I think some Atheists and many Liberals are scared of this film,cause it will make us realize we need to return back to Family Values and to some if not many Humanists,anything that is:


PRO-LIFE or PRO-FAMILY or PRO-AMERICA scares HUMANISTS.

[calladus]

Originally posted by billiefan2000

You are a liar then,cause all the people who have been slaming the film are Liberals and in particular those who are Atheists or Humanists.


Explain that then?
Your data are in error.
From what I've seen the people 'slamming' this movie, if anyone, are those religious people who can't stand to see Jesus as anything other than a warm and fuzzy Angelo Saxon man.

[Hexxenhammer]

Holy crap. I just noticed the post subject above. I got a backhanded compliment. "You're a sinner and going to burn in hell, but you're ok." Billie, I am not tolerant fundamentalist christianity. I'm saying I'm tolerant of this particular movie. It's a freakin' movie. Some people may think it's offensive, but that happens all the time. If it stops short of "Birth of a Nation". Then there's no need to have a hissy about it.

[Hexxenhammer]

Originally posted by billiefan2000


Hexxenhammer you maybe right on the Ben Hur thing,but what bothers me is:


If Liberals and Atheists arent offended by this film then why the smear campaing then?


I think some Atheists and many Liberals are scared of this film,cause it will make us realize we need to return back to Family Values and to some if not many Humanists,anything that is:


PRO-LIFE or PRO-FAMILY or PRO-AMERICA scares HUMANISTS.
There is no smear campaign. You're creating the illusion that there is one by saying there is one. Self fulfilling prophesy. Like Armageddon.

[billiefan2000]

It is just a freaking movie and I think that is what needs to be said by Liberals and Atheists instead of trying to trash the film.


It is just a film and I think the General Public in the USA and Canada and UK and not Fanatic Liberals in the USA and UK and Canada should decide what they think of the film.


Plus,Hexxenhammer said something I wish more Atheists would say to those attacking the film:


it is just a freaking movie.

[billiefan2000]

Originally posted by calladus

Your data are in error.
From what I've seen the people 'slamming' this movie, if anyone, are those religious people who can't stand to see Jesus as anything other than a warm and fuzzy Angelo Saxon man.

What religious people have slammed the film.


Michael Medved and Matt Drudge who are Jewish support this film and liked this film.


Bill O"Reilly and Ted Baehr and Greg Laurie are Christians and think the film is okay.

[Hexxenhammer]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
It is just a freaking movie and I think that is what needs to be said by Liberals and Atheists instead of trying to trash the film.


It is just a film and I think the General Public in the USA and Canada and UK and not Fanatic Liberals in the USA and UK and Canada should decide what they think of the film.


Plus,Hexxenhammer said something I wish more Atheists would say to those attacking the film:


it is just a freaking movie.

Is there a prize for getting Billiefan to agree with an atheist? I think I should win something.

[billiefan2000]

Originally posted by Hexxenhammer

There is no smear campaign. You're creating the illusion that there is one by saying there is one. Self fulfilling prophesy. Like Armageddon.


Oh,really.


Than why are some Liberals hellbent on attaking this film then?

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by billiefan2000


Nyarlathotep:


You are a liar then,cause all the people who have been slaming the film are Liberals and in particular those who are Atheists or Humanists.


Explain that then?

So far the only person I have heard slamming the film has been in the link you provided, this Frank Rich character. Frank Rich may very well be an Atheist, A Humanist and/or a Liberal, I have no idea. But does he speak for atheists, humanists, or liberals? I don't think so. Prior to today, I had never heard of the man. Frank Rich, in all likelyhood, speaks for Frank Rich.

Has anyone CLAIMING to speak on behalf of one or all of these groups called for a boycott of the film or in any other way expressed an OFFICIAL policy on the film? I checked the American Atheists site, the Freedom From Religion Foundation Site, the American Humanist association site, The Democratic National Comitee site and the Green party site (the last two because I could think of no other places to check the official "liberal" view) I could find not so much as a mention of the film on any of the sites, pro or con. I assume that all of these groups have bigger fish to fry.

If the handful of people that have slammed the movie are liberals or atheists or Czechoslovakian or whatever then thats likely because people of similar mindsets are going to like and dislike similar things. That's just the way things are. I doubt that you are going to find many liberals at a Monster Truck Rally either, but that doesn't mean that there is some sort of organized liberal opposition to Monster Truck Rallies.

[Hexxenhammer]

Originally posted by billiefan2000



Oh,really.


Than why are some Liberals hellbent on attaking this film then?

Sorry, I'm done posting on this thread. I got you to agree with me. I win.

[billiefan2000]

Originally posted by Hexxenhammer


Is there a prize for getting Billiefan to agree with an atheist? I think I should win something.

I agree you should get a award.

If I had one,I would give you the billiefan2000 Common Sense Award cause you seem to have a lot more sense in than some of the Humanist Groups who seem hellbent on attacking this film.

And like you said it best:


it is only a freaking movie.

[calladus]

The controversy has been cast by many of his supporters as the Jews versus Mel Gibson. But it began when several Roman Catholic scholars voiced concern about the project because of Mr. Gibson's affiliation with a splinter Catholic group that rejects the modern papacy and the reforms of the Second Vatican Council, which in 1965 repudiated the charge of deicide against the Jews.

In other words, the conservative Catholic church has some issues over Mr. Gibson's radical views about Jesus.


Mr. Gibson has been screening "The Passion" for a few weeks for friendly audiences, but has refused to show it to his critics, including members of Jewish groups and biblical scholars.
Why wouldn't Mel welcome anyone who wanted to verify that his movie was accurate?
Mr. Gibson has said his movie will be true to the Gospel account of the last hours of Jesus' life. But Matthew, Mark, Luke and John differ greatly, presenting Rashomon-like accounts of the roles of the Romans and Jews in the Crucifixion.
Oh! That's why Mr. Gibson didn't invite scholars - because his movie does not reflect the bible.
A committee of Bible scholars who read a version of the script said that it was not true to Scripture or Catholic teaching and that it badly twisted Jewish leaders' role in Jesus' death. The problem, the scholars said, is not that Mr. Gibson is anti-Semitic, but that his film could unintentionally incite anti-Semitic violence.

One scholar, Sister Mary C. Boys, a professor at Union Theological Seminary in New York, said: "When we read the screenplay, our sense was this wasn't really something you could fix. All the way through, the Jews are portrayed as bloodthirsty. We're really concerned that this could be one of the great crises in Christian-Jewish relations."
'Not true to scripture or Catholic teaching.' Tsk! Mel, didn't you stay awake for bible study class?

'unintentionally incite anti-Semantic violence.' 'Jews are portrayed as bloodthirsty.'

Hey, isn't there enough White Supremacist hate group recruitment material in the world? Do we have to add this film too?

[billiefan2000]

have you seen the film yet?

Cause many Jews that Mel has shown the film havs said the opposite of what you think in your ANTI-JEW and ANTI-JESUS mind have said:

'unintentionally incite anti-Semantic violence.' 'Jews are portrayed as bloodthirsty.'


I guess maybe Michael Medved and Matt drudge and other Jews who have seen the whole film already must of missed that part.


besides,Pontius Pilate and the Romans killed Jesus not the Jews.

[Martin]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
Martin,what evidence is there to prove evolutionShall we start with, say, endogenous retroviral insertions?Many Scientists have said it is a bunch of b.s. And, of course, those are the ones you choose to believe, because they tell you what you want to hear. This despite the fact that you don't actually understand the arguments.

[hgc]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
have you seen the film yet?

Cause many Jews that Mel has shown the film havs said the opposite of what you think in your ANTI-JEW and ANTI-JESUS mind have said:

'unintentionally incite anti-Semantic violence.' 'Jews are portrayed as bloodthirsty.'


I guess maybe Michael Medved and Matt drudge and other Jews who have seen the whole film already must of missed that part.


besides,Pontius Pilate and the Romans killed Jesus not the Jews. OK, billiefan, serious question:

Does it really matter who killed Jesus? If God sent his son to die on the cross for mankind's sins, it was all part of God's plan right? Who ought to even care if it was the Jews or the Romans, right?

[Lord Emsworth]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
And like you said it best:


it is only a freaking movie.

Yes, Hexxenhammer put it lovely.

So, Billiefan2000 enjoy* the movie. :)



* if that is the right word for watching your saviour being put to death

[calladus]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
have you seen the film yet?

Nope - I'm just repeating what conservative Catholic scholars have said after reading the script - them not being invited to actually see the movie due to Mel's fears of being panned by people who actually understand scripture.

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by billiefan2000



Many Scientists have said it is a bunch of b.s.

Really??

How is many?

Can you list all their names, list the ones who are "real" Scientist in the field and not Christians who may have a PHD in Black topping.

I look forward to your list.

Thank you and may you be well and happy.

[Max560]

I think the movie would have been better if it was done in the ancient language of the Cthulhu cult.

A few car chases wouldn't have hurt either.

[calladus]

Originally posted by Max560
I think the movie would have been better if it was done in the ancient language of the Cthulhu cult.

A few car chases wouldn't have hurt either.

Just for you, Max -


The Battle Hymn of the Eschaton

(Tune: Battle Hymn of the Republic)

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the rising of R’llyeh.

I have seen its crooked angles tow’ring high above the bay.

I have seen the Elder Gods arise to drag us all away.

Cthulhu’s slithering on!

Glory, glory Kali-Yuga!

Glory, glory Kali-Yuga!

Glory, glory Kali-Yuga!

Cthulhu’s slithering on.

[headscratcher4]

It seems clear that Billie hasn't read what Rich wrote...Rich's piece was thoughtful and pointed out a pattern by Gibson and his associates to stir up controversy and obliquely blame Jews for the controversy when no one was criticising the film (Rich points out that the biggest complaints are that people haven't been allowed to see the film).

I recommend that folks go directly to Rich's Sunday Arts piece in the NY Times and read what Rich is saying...

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/03/arts/03RICH.html

(you will need to register to enter the site...)

Further, it is odd that Billie, who is usually so anti-Catholic, wants to defend a movie that he has not only not seen, but is being made by a very traditional Catholic and that -- so far as can be judged -- puts forward a very Catholic view of Jesus, his mission and the roots of the church....just an observation.

P.S: Mel Gibson can make any movie he wants to with his money...more power to him for making a movie that expresses his faith, but he shouldn't complain if those who disagree with him, his interpretation, etc. do so in public, that is the nature of free speech on both sides of the coin...free speech means that the ignorant, the bias, the bigoted, the foolish can have their say. Free speech says that if Mel has enough money, he too will have his say.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/8/3/120118.shtml

and what is your opinion on the contorversy around the film THE PASSION.

My opinion is that any movie about jesus or god is stupid, unless the film mocks jesus, like The Life Of Brian, which was funny.

[Max560]

Originally posted by calladus


Just for you, Max -



*sniff* that was beautiful!

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl ftagn!

[Ladewig]

If Liberals and Atheists aren't offended by this film then why the smear campaing then?


Oh, oh, can I play, too? If Liberals and Atheists aren't offended by this film, then why are they murdering and eating Christian babies!?

At first glance, it appears as if there is a humungous smear campaign against Gigli (Joe Morgenstern of WSJ: the worst movie of our admittedly young century). Does that mean there is some nefarious conspiracy out to attack the Bennifer beast? No. It simply means the movie is not good. People providing a great deal of criticism against The Passion is not a "Liberal and Atheist smear campaign," any more than a bunch of Christian scientists criticising evolution is a "Christian smear campaign."

[a_unique_person]

Gibson is not only a Catholic, he is very much an arch conservative, harking back to the good old days of the Latin Mass, (Just like jesus used to do, I suppose, in the authentic language of jesus, not).

He is also anti-semitic, very much into the blaming jews for the crucifixion, even though if jesus wasn't killed, no xians would be saved. Jesus would have lived to old age, had a nice, quiet life of preaching and living in poverty and hanging out with the tax collectors and prostitutes.

[calladus]

Originally posted by Max560
*sniff* that was beautiful!
Aw shucks! 'twern't nuthin'


Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl ftagn!

That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.

[SteveW]

Originally posted by billiefan2000


I wasnt around and why is it okay by Humanists and Liberals to make films that mocks JESUS CHRIST such as:

DOGMA and LAST TEMPATION OF CHRIST




And how exactly did Dogma mock JC? How did LTOC "mock" him for that matter. Billiefan, its stupidity like yours that make Xians look like the fools they are.

[Jabberwock]

Here's a link to a teaser of the movie. http://www.harvest.org/special/index.php/1/2/6.html

Look closely and you'll see it's not the Jews or Romans who kill Christ, it's a small detachment of redcoats! ;)

[Suddenly]

Originally posted by calladus

Aw shucks! 'twern't nuthin'


That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.

Is Cthulhu in Metallica? Or will Cthulhu devour them as well?

"The Thing That Should Not Be" (http://www.encyclopedia-metallica.com/lyrics/lyr-mop3.shtml)

(snip bunch of lyrics)

Not dead which eternal lie
stranger eons Death may die
drain you of your sanity
face The Thing That Should Not Be


How does one pronounce Cthulhu?

Also, is it polite, when someone tells me "Jesus loves me" to respond with "Thank You, and may Cthulhu devour you last?"

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Suddenly


Is Cthulhu in Metallica? Or will Cthulhu devour them as well?

"The Thing That Should Not Be" (http://www.encyclopedia-metallica.com/lyrics/lyr-mop3.shtml)

(snip bunch of lyrics)

Not dead which eternal lie
stranger eons Death may die
drain you of your sanity
face The Thing That Should Not Be


How does one pronounce Cthulhu?

Also, is it polite, when someone tells me "Jesus loves me" to respond with "Thank You, and may Cthulhu devour you last?"

It definately sounds like Metallica has a Cthulhu cultist in their midst. I am going to have to listen to that song (I amnot a big fan of heavy metal so I had never heard the song)

Oh and it's pronounced Kuh-Thoo-Loo

[Sindai]

That song is certainly based on the Chtulhu mythos - mostly The Shadow Over Innsmouth instead of Cthulhu, though.

They also have an instrumental song named "The Call of Ktulhu" (for copyright purposes, I imagine.)

[Suddenly]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep



Oh and it's pronounced Kuh-Thoo-Loo


Thanks

[calladus]

Originally posted by Suddenly


Is Cthulhu in Metallica? Or will Cthulhu devour them as well?

"The Thing That Should Not Be" (http://www.encyclopedia-metallica.com/lyrics/lyr-mop3.shtml)

(snip bunch of lyrics)

Not dead which eternal lie
stranger eons Death may die
drain you of your sanity
face The Thing That Should Not Be


How does one pronounce Cthulhu?

Also, is it polite, when someone tells me "Jesus loves me" to respond with "Thank You, and may Cthulhu devour you last?"

Not just Metallica, other rock groups have made at least passing reference from time to time. Blue Oyster Cult made a LOT of references!

But I enjoy filk (SIC) songs about Cthulhu. They are easier to sing along to around a campfire on a dark, cold, foggy night.

[calladus]

Originally posted by Suddenly


Is Cthulhu in Metallica? Or will Cthulhu devour them as well?

"The Thing That Should Not Be" (http://www.encyclopedia-metallica.com/lyrics/lyr-mop3.shtml)

(snip bunch of lyrics)

Not dead which eternal lie
stranger eons Death may die
drain you of your sanity
face The Thing That Should Not Be


How does one pronounce Cthulhu?

Also, is it polite, when someone tells me "Jesus loves me" to respond with "Thank You, and may Cthulhu devour you last?"

The actual quote comes from HP Lovecraft's story, 'Call of Cthulhu".

[Ladewig]

Oh and it's pronounced Kuh-Thoo-Loo

I thought consonants before an initial "th" were silent: chthonic is pronounced thon'-ik)
__________________________________
edited to add:
Doh! English pronunciations have little to do with otherworldly entities.

According to H. P. Lovecraft:
"The actual sound - as nearly as human organs could imitate it or human letters record it - may be taken as something like Khlul'-hloo, with the first syllable pronounced gutturally and very thickly."


If only I could research before posting.

[Chanileslie]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
That is your opinion if you think the bible is fiction.

As it is your opinion that it is fact.

Originally posted by billiefan2000
Evolution is the biggest load of fiction out there,and I dont see Atheists attacking the Evolution lies that people have had shoved dopwn their throats..

Lies. phhhfftt. This comes from someone who believes in the bible. <snicker>


Originally posted by billiefan2000
But I want to ask you something:


if Atheists and Evolutionists arent offeneded by this film:


How come then Atheists arent showing their support or telling those who have a problem with this film to shut up then?


Answer me that question.

Because many atheists don't support the film or even care about it. Also, I believe Nyarlathotep has already answered your question in stating he doesn't really care about the film one way or the other.

[Max560]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep

It definately sounds like Metallica has a Cthulhu cultist in their midst.

The cult lives on. We're everywhere.

[calladus]

Originally posted by Ladewig


I thought consonants before an initial "th" were silent: chthonic is pronounced thon'-ik)
__________________________________
edited to add:
Doh! English pronunciations have little to do with otherworldly entities.

According to H. P. Lovecraft:
"The actual sound - as nearly as human organs could imitate it or human letters record it - may be taken as something like Khlul'-hloo, with the first syllable pronounced gutturally and very thickly."


If only I could research before posting.

You HAVE TO pronounce it incorrectly, or risk going insane! (Or waking up Dead Cthulhu - which would lead to insanity or digestion)

BTW - Cthulhu saves! (In case he's hungry later!)

[Whomp]

Remember, Cthulhu for President!
(why vote for the lesser of two evils?)

[diddidit]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
Evolution is the biggest load of fiction out there

Explain that to a person dying from a staph infection that's evolved resistance to multiple drugs.

did

[Jabberwock]

Originally posted by Whomp
Remember, Cthulhu for President!
(why vote for the lesser of two evils?)

3.5 K and some sigs and he (she? it?) could be Governor of California! :wink8:

[Checkmite]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
I think it should shock people that the Atheistic Left and others who hate JESUS and in particular the Evolution and Humanism Pushers seem upset about this film and they wont say why,other than:


it may cause Anti-Semitism.


That is a lie,cause:


Jesus was a jew as were the Apostles and many of the first Christians in the Church.


Matt Drudge and Michael Medved and other jews support this film and didnt see any Anti-Semitism in it.


The Liberal Media isnt asking what Jewish Christians or Messianic Jews like ZOLA LEVITT or SID ROTH what there opinions is on this film.

Jesus and the Apostles' being Jewish hasn't stopped several racist/extremist religious groups like Christian Identity and World Church of the Creator from hating Jewish people. In fact, they use the Jews' alleged betrayal of Jesus as one example of why Jews are "bad", despite the fact that (according to Christian teachings) the Crucifixion had to happen.

[dissonance]

You have no idea how long I've wanted to know how to pronounce Cthulu, but have been too lazy to find out. I was WAAAAAAY off.

[Hexxenhammer]

Originally posted by dissonance
You have no idea how long I've wanted to know how to pronounce Cthulu, but have been too lazy to find out. I was WAAAAAAY off.
I love the fact that this thread has been hijacked by Cthulhu.
How were you pronouncing it?




Wait....I said I wouldn't post on this thread anymore...Cthulhu made me do it! Don't devour me o non-Euclidean one!

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Hexxenhammer

I love the fact that this thread has been hijacked by Cthulhu.


Darn that Cthulhu, he gets all the press:mad:

[Hexxenhammer]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep


Darn that Cthulhu, he gets all the press:mad:
Don't get me wrong. I fear the crawling chaos of Nyarlathotep too. But tend to hang or burn either of your followers for witchcraft.

[Max560]

Originally posted by Hexxenhammer

Wait....I said I wouldn't post on this thread anymore...Cthulhu made me do it! Don't devour me o non-Euclidean one!


Cthulhu's ability to make you post again is further proof of his power.

Not even Jesus could make you do that. I'm sure that he wouldn't even rate as an appetizer to the Great Sleeper.

[EdipisReks]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep

Oh and it's pronounced Kuh-Thoo-Loo

that isn't necessarily true. Lovecraft himself gave many differen't pronunciations, and finally said it was unpronounable by humans. Ia ia CTHULHU ph’nglui mglui’nafh uigah-nagl fhtagn ia ia HASTUR cf’ayak ‘vulglram vugtlagn, vulgtmm ia HASTUR. Dominum nostram CTHULHU, ya-R’lyeh. SHUB-NIGGURATH, magna mater n’gai n’gah-g’haa ygnanth, ygnanth. YOG-SOTHOTH. amen.

[EdipisReks]

Originally posted by Max560



Cthulhu's ability to make you post again is further proof of his power.

Not even Jesus could make you do that. I'm sure that he wouldn't even rate as an appetizer to the Great Sleeper.

is jesus was lucky he would be a toothpick....er...tentacle pick.

[thaiboxerken]

Hey, those actors want to make another movie about mythology, then fine. It's not something I will go out to watch.

[thaiboxerken]

Hey, those actors want to make another movie about mythology, then fine. It's not something I will go out to watch.

[EdipisReks]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken
Hey, those actors want to make another movie about mythology, then fine. It's not something I will go out to watch.

i'll see it it Monica Bellucci takes off her top in it.

[Cinorjer]

So the people good ol' Mel hired for publicity have gone the "controversy" route. Now people will slap down their money to see it, just to see what all the yelling is about.

There is no passion play or movie that can be accurate to the entire set of Gospels, because they contradict each other. If Mel wants to add details that aren't in the Bible, it's his script. As for the movie causing violence against Jews, it's only a movie. What do they think, that people are going to come out of the theatre, form a mob, and burn down the local synagoge?

Jerry

[zakur]

From this article (http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,259769,00.html):The dialogue is in Aramaic and Latin. Scholars say that belies the assertion of total authenticity, because the Romans spoke Greek. Mr. Gibson had said the film would not have English subtitles. But it is being screened with them, the marketing director, Paul Lauer, said, and they may remain.Mr. Gibson has been screening "The Passion" for a few weeks for friendly audiences, but has refused to show it to his critics, including members of Jewish groups and biblical scholars. In Washington, it was shown to the Web gossip Matt Drudge, the columnists Cal Thomas and Peggy Noonan and the staffs of the Senate Republican Conference and the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives and others. In Colorado Springs, the capital of evangelical America, the film drew raves. A convention of the Legionaries of Christ, a conservative Roman Catholic order of priests, saw a preview, as did Rush Limbaugh.I love this quote:"Mel Gibson is the Michelangelo of this generation," said the Rev. Ted Haggard, president of the National Association of Evangelicals.:rolleyes:

Don't get me wrong, I think Gibson is a competent actor and director, and I have enjoyed most of his films. But to compare him to Michelangelo is ridiculous.Mr. Gibson has said his movie will be true to the Gospel account of the last hours of Jesus' life. But Matthew, Mark, Luke and John differ greatly, presenting Rashomon-like accounts of the roles of the Romans and Jews in the Crucifixion.

A committee of Bible scholars who read a version of the script said that it was not true to Scripture or Catholic teaching and that it badly twisted Jewish leaders' role in Jesus' death. The problem, the scholars said, is not that Mr. Gibson is anti-Semitic, but that his film could unintentionally incite anti-Semitic violence.In particular, the scholars objected that the Jewish priest, Caiaphas, was depicted as intimidating Pontius Pilate, the Roman governor, into going along with the Crucifixion. Several people who saw the film last month said the version they saw had that portrayal. The scholars said that section distorts the fact that the Romans were the occupying power and that the Jewish authorities were their agents.The scholars say the other reason for concern was Mr. Gibson's strain of Catholicism. He built and belongs to a church in Los Angeles that is part of a growing but fractured movement known as "Catholic traditionalism." Considered beyond the pale even by conservatives, the traditionalists reject the Second Vatican Council and every pope since then, and they conduct Mass in Latin.

Mr. Gibson also set off alarms among the scholars when reports quoted him as saying his script had drawn on the diaries of Sister Anne Catherine Emmerich, a 19th-century mystic whose visions included extrabiblical details like having the Jewish high priest order that Jesus' cross be built in the Jewish temple.Mr. Gibson's vision "pays tribute to Judaism," Mr. Lauer said, by underscoring Christianity's roots. The controversy, he added, has built a considerable buzz about the movie. "You can't buy that kind of publicity," he said.

[zakur]

Calif. Rabbi Says 'Passion' Already Fueling Hatred (http://asia.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=entertainmentNews&storyID=3265856)

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Mel Gibson's new film "The Passion" has already unleashed a wave of anti-Semitism in the United States despite the fact that it won't be released for months, a Jewish leader said on Tuesday.

Rabbi Marvin Hier, founder of the Los Angeles-based Simon Wiesenthal Center, told Reuters the Jewish human rights organization had received dozens of hate calls and letters prompted by a handful of private screenings and advance publicity about the movie.

[...]

But Hier said the bigotry had already started, and that the Simon Wiesenthal Center had received hate mail from people who had seen or heard about the movie, and who accused Jews of killing God's son, praised Adolf Hitler and made veiled threats against the center and Jews collectively.

Hier cited one writer who praised Hitler as "much kinder to the Jews than I would have been," and signed his letter "a very concerned American, name withheld for fear of retaliation by you Jewish scumbags."Niiiiice....very nice. :(

[Regnad Kcin]

Originally posted by zakur
Niiiiice....very nice. :( Yes, yes, it's obvious that the Jews alive in 2003 (as well as the early 1940s) are to blame! :rolleyes:

[Tricky]

This just in from News of the Weird (http://www.newsoftheweird.com/archive/index.html)
According to Houston newsletter publisher and devout Catholic Hutton Gibson, there was no Holocaust; Pope John Paul II is an imposter and a "Koran kisser"; and the church is doomed because, among other things, masses are no longer conducted in Latin. According to a July Houston Press profile, Gibson, 84, believes there is a worldwide plot that began with the 1960s' changes in the church imposed by the Vatican Council, and he is using his 600-reader newsletter to get the word out, even though the Press compares him to the paranoid lead character in the movie "Conspiracy Theory," which starred Mel Gibson, who happens to be Hutton's son. Said Hutton, "I figure that as long as there's one (true) Catholic in the world, (the church) hasn't finished." [Houston Press, 7-24-03]

That might explain some things.