Virginia Tech Shooting: Has Faith Taken a Knock? Bush statement.

[H3LL]

First my condolences to those that have lost and suffered from this horrific event.

I needed to ask a question after listening to President Bush's statement on the shooting:

We lift them up in our prayers and we ask a loving God to comfort those who are suffering today

I avoid listening to Bush most of the time but on the far too many occasions when I have heard him, god usually gets a mention. Regardless of my opinion on religion, some may consider it an appropriate comment for the many believers in the US. Personally, I find the comment nauseating.

That said, it struck me as unusual that he said "loving God".

Am I correct in this or has it become the norm for Bush to refer to a "loving God"?

If not...Why the change?

Has faith taken a knock?

.

[Dark Jaguar]

What sort of "knock" do you mean? I think it's just that "love" tested well with the focus groups so he's working that into his speeches now.

[H3LL]

What sort of "knock" do you mean?

Sorry. Maybe a little unclear...It gave the impression (if it is unusual) that a reminder to the faithful was needed that god is "loving" after he has done such a despicable thing.

I think it's just that "love" tested well with the focus groups so he's working that into his speeches now.

Not sure if that's tongue-in-cheek. If Bush's quote is normal, as you seem to suggest, you can ignore this thread.

I would still like a confirmation whether "loving god" is common and usual in Bush speeches from those that know him better than I.

Thanks.

.

[sophia8]

Why does he need to "ask" God to do any comforting? God is all-knowing, therefore already knows who needs comforting and will have arranged it.
"Um, God? Really sorry to disturb you at this unYouly hour, but could I possibly ask a favour....?"

Oh yeah, and the phrase "a loving God" carries two implications: one, that there's an unloving God somewhere; two, that there's more than one God.

[DOC]

Bush could be distinguishing between the God of Christianity and the God of Islam. It seems that the God of Islam ( and maybe even the God of Judaism) is less personal and less redemptive than the God of Christianity. So for those who believe in God like myself -- some religions concept of the true God is less accurate.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Scarborough in his religious fervor interviewed some pastor asking what does he say to people to explain why 'God' let's this happen, (transcripts for today will post tomorrow) (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3719710/). I couldn't believe the guy's reply. He said "there is evil in the world" and "this was not the time for blame, this was the time to give comfort to the families". Now we have pastors adopting the political language of the dodge. What? No, "God moves in mysterious ways"? Apparently information flows both ways in the marriage between the Evangelicals and politics.

Then there are those who blame evolution and abortions for these events. The following is a comment on a Columbine parent interview: CBS Turns Over News Broadcast To Man Who Blames School Shootings on Teaching Evolution and Abortion (http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/03/cbs-columbine/)

My son had a website up today with some video montage blaming the shootings on the fact prayer isn't allowed in school. (I can't find the link but will get it tomorrow.) Right, that's why one of these incidents happened a while back where the guy shot up the before school prayer group during their prayer meeting.

So tell me, Doc, why is it you claim, "praise our loving god" when someone survives but God gets no blame for those who don't? He's supposed to be omnipotent isn't he? It's rather ridiculous to claim all those platitudes like, "he has a plan" and "we can't know the mind of God". If one of those dead kids was mine such platitudes would be ridiculous. Come to think of it I think those platitudes are ridiculous regardless.

[fuelair]

Actually, its' not ridiculous - for someone who just has to believe there is a higher power. It is absolutely necessary.

[Katana]

Bush could be distinguishing between the God of Christianity and the God of Islam. It seems that the God of Islam ( and maybe even the God of Judaism) is less personal and less redemptive than the God of Christianity. So for those who believe in God like myself -- some religions concept of the true God is less accurate.


:D

Thank you for that.

Now I have to wipe the coffee off my laptop screen, but no biggie.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

First the loving God has three dozen people murdered in cold blood. Then the loving God comforts the families of the dead.

If a human did those two things in that order, we'd make a movie about it starring Anthony Hopkins.

~~ Paul

[Glen.Nogami]

Anthony Hopkins would be a sweet God.

[Hammer_of_Thor]

God-I love all people of the world and I am all powerful. Please follow me and I will lead you to the kingdom of heaven. Bless you my children.

...Virginia Tech Tragedy happens

God-What happened? I walk away for two hours and some idiot is running around killing people. Why wasnt someone praying to me to let me know what was going? I sure hope no one finds out that I am not all powerful. I hope that they drop the "God works in mysterious ways" statement. That should get me out of this mess. Oh well. Back to watching "Press Your Luck".

[triadboy]

It seems that the God of Islam ( and maybe even the God of Judaism) is less personal and less redemptive than the God of Christianity.

I disagree. In the OT, Yahweh was very personally involved with Jews: Smelling their BBQ; walking in their garden; confusing their languages; helping Adam pick the names of all the animals on earth; he led them around the desert for 40 years using a flaming tornado!

Then with the NT, that personal touch disappeared. God kinda wussied out on us.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Phelps has his usual rant up already blaming God's wrath for our evil ways, mostly gays.

I'm beginning to think he's a closet gay to be this hung up on the subject. Phelps and Pat Robertson for sure.

[Wheezebucket]

I saw that clip on FOX News earlier and threw up a little bit in my mouth. I washed it back down with alcohol.

[korenyx]

My idea of God is that there is evil in the world and sometimes all God can do is help us through it.

Fundies do not like this approach and would tell me if I was just the same kind of Christian (sexist, racist, homophobic) they are my life would be perfect.

Kore

[Jimbo07]

Has faith taken a knock?



Faith seemed to survive the Black Death and two world wars intact... I doubt that a shooting of 30-odd will have much effect on faith...

... which in its own way is too bad.

:(

[grayman]

Phelps has his usual rant up already blaming God's wrath for our evil ways, mostly gays.

I'm beginning to think he's a closet gay to be this hung up on the subject. Phelps and Pat Robertson for sure.

Shirley has her say on the subject (http://www.godhatesfags.com/featured/dearshirley/2007/20070416_DearShirley50.pdf) as well, twice (http://www.godhatesfags.com/featured/dearshirley/2007/20070416_DearShirley51.pdf).

[Skeptic Ginger]

Shirley has her say on the subject (http://www.godhatesfags.com/featured/dearshirley/2007/20070416_DearShirley50.pdf) as well, twice (http://www.godhatesfags.com/featured/dearshirley/2007/20070416_DearShirley51.pdf).

I avoided the links just so they wouldn't add traffic to the slimebag's site. Don't waste your time. A few of us watch the site "so you don't have to".

[Wheezebucket]

She capitalizes 'Doom' but not 'america'. These are kinda fun.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

My idea of God is that there is evil in the world and sometimes all God can do is help us through it.
If he can't stop the evil, why should I trust he's competent to help me through it?

~~ Paul

[Ichneumonwasp]

Maybe he's more like a really good drinking buddy. I understand that heavy drinkers saved mankind, after all.

[fuelair]

My idea of God is that there is evil in the world and sometimes all God can do is help us through it.

Fundies do not like this approach and would tell me if I was just the same kind of Christian (sexist, racist, homophobic) they are my life would be perfect.

Kore
Sorry, but problem with that is that if all he can do is help us through it then he is either not all powerful (all he can do) or has chosen to let evil happen(chooses to only help us through it though he could prevent it). Not trying to be nasty in my comment (since you clearly weren't) but, if the first, he's not worth worrying about and if the second, I would happily try to hunt down and eliminate it.

[Wowbagger]

God is, indeed, a very loving God. God just happens to love ultra-violence.

[Kopji]

No big deal. This is probably how Bush would talk all the time if government weren't all run by a bunch of secular blasphemers.

Tragedies give him a little more free reign to work 'God' into the speeches. As was probably mentioned already, it's good for the base.

[Mephisto]

My idea of God is that there is evil in the world and sometimes all God can do is help us through it.

Fundies do not like this approach and would tell me if I was just the same kind of Christian (sexist, racist, homophobic) they are my life would be perfect.

Kore

Well if he's busy carrying people around on beaches, why couldn't he just carry Cho to someplace remote where he wouldn't be a problem?

BTW, welcome to the forums. :)

[Skeptic Ginger]

Well this was too much! It speaks for itself.

Fox News Commentary When unexplained violence takes center stage, we tend to turn to modern psychology to explain it.

But there is an alternative explanation, one that has been played out in film, stage and writings since the beginning of history.

Was Cho Seung-Hui schizophrenic … psychotic … manic-depressive? Or were the shooting deaths of 32 people, including Cho himself, at Virginia Tech University part of the ongoing struggle between God and Satan … good against evil … lightness and darkness?

Could Cho have been possessed by the Devil? Could that explain the massacre at Virginia Tech?

Dr. Richard Roberts, president of Oral Roberts University, shouts an unequivocal “Yes!”

“Based on what I’ve seen in the news," Roberts said in an interview, "there’s no doubt that this act was Satanic in origin.""part of the ongoing struggle between God and Satan … good against evil … lightness and darkness"

:dl:

Kidding aside, isn't that what was believed about mental illness in the dark ages?

[FaisonMars]

I don't know-- the problem of evil has never seemed to me to be a very convincing argument against the existence of God. Supposedly, God gave us free will to allow us to choose to do evil or not... it wouldn't be much of a free choice if every time someone wanted to do evil and hurt people, God intervened and stopped it.

Most disturbingly, one of the first news stories I saw after the shooting was about a student who had stayed home from class that day, and she went on and on about how "God was watching over her." And therefore God wanted all of those other people to die?

Natural disasters, on the other hand, are a different story, but perhaps God is just trying to keep us on our toes.