Anyone read "Betrayed", about a Jew who accepts Jesus

[losman]

I had a conversation with a friend who is a devout Xian and she was raving about this book concerning a Jewish man who is shocked to find his daughter has accepted Jesus and then he does to after he reads some words

His tale is told here

http://www.powertochange.com/changed/stelchin.html

http://www.telchin.com/p2.html

I am not into religous stuff and it bothers me to discuss it, I told her I would read it but the idea of a book about a Jewish person accepting Jesus seems wrong and misguided.

We then got into a discussion about Jews who accept Jesus and I told her it was like Christians against Christ. She is one of those Xians who feels Jews and non-Xians are lead astray by Satan

Anyone ready this or have any arguments I could show her, she is a bible thumper and I would like to let her know that she does not have all the right answers.

She is my friend and I do care for her but this religious crap puts a strain on things

[Ceinwyn]

We don't like spamming trolls here. Please move on.

[losman]

I am not a spamming troll, I am just curious what others think about the idea of a Jew who accepts Jesus. I am an Atheist so for me it is a sociological concern. I live in a devoutly Catholic region in Texas and I see so much bigotry towards catholics and jews and I am trying to understand why all this hatred comes from people who claim to believe in God.

[Tony]

Originally posted by losman
I am not a spamming troll, I am just curious what others think about the idea of a Jew who accepts Jesus.


Im a freethinker and I think other people should be to. So why should I care if a jew wants to accept jesus? it's their right to believe what they want.

[Nucular]

Originally posted by buki
We don't like spamming trolls here. Please move on. Why do you think he's a spamming troll buki? Did I miss something?

[Nucular]

I read Betrayed ages ago. I thought it was quite an interesting read. I was unconvinced by some of the actual pro-Christianity arguments in it though - but then it wasn't intended to be a theological tract, but a personal account.

If I was a Jew, I'd have to have checked Christianity out properly, just in case. I can see why some Jews become Messianic Jews (accept that Jesus was the Messiah) - many of the foundations of belief are there anyway.

How do you mean, "like Christians against Christ"? What is the debate centring around?

[Charlie Monoxide]

In San Francisco (and probably elsewhere) there is a group of "Jews for Jesus". I had seen their mini-buses cruising around and IIRC they had put a few billboards in the Bay area. At first I thought is was a joke, but found out later they are Jews who have accepted Christ. I could google the links but I'm a lazy SOB.

Charlie (save Jews, win valuable prizes) Monoxide

[JamesM]

As an aside, of all the people that you would imagine Jews might not like very much (Nazis, Islamofascist terrorists, Christians), it is the Messianic Jews that they loathe the very most.

As a further aside there exists also the organisation 'Jews for Hitler', but at last count, this only consisted of one (very confused) person. I read about him in 'Apocalypse Culture II'.

[Pahansiri]

Here is a site concerning Messianic Prophecies Jesus Failed to Fulfill

http://torah.freeyellow.com/page14.html

[Upchurch]

It's important to remember that there is a distinction between being a Jew ethnically and belonging to the Jewish religion. While they are by no means mutually exclusive, they aren't always synonamous.

"Jews for Jesus", for example, is a church made up of people of Jewish descent who are Christians. And don't forget Jesus's original 12 deciples were all Jews who accepted Jesus.

edited to add: btw, buki, I don't get the spamming troll line. seems like a legitament question to me.

[LCBOY]

Originally posted by losman
I am not into religous stuff and it bothers me to discuss it, I told her I would read it but the idea of a book about a Jewish person accepting Jesus seems wrong and misguided.
Just curious but why woud it be wrong and misguided for a Jewish person to accept Christ. As Upchurch stated Jesus and the apostles were all Jewish as was Paul.
Anyone ready this or have any arguments I could show her, she is a bible thumper and I would like to let her know that she does not have all the right answers.
Do you really want to show her other ideas or just "prove" that her Christianity is wrong?
She is my friend and I do care for her but this religious crap puts a strain on things
One of my closest friends is an atheist and I am a Christian but we get along very well. We just decided to agree to disagree and move on. I have shared my faith with her from to time but only when she asks.

[billiefan2000]

Wasnt Jesus a Jew himself.


Werent many of the Early Christians including most of the Apostles Jewish as well who believed Jesus was the Messiah and the SON OF GOD.

[The Mad Linguist]

Yes, Billiefan. Many people have converted from Judaism to Christianity, including many of the earliest Christians.

A smaller number of people have converted from Christianity to Judaism (because the Jews don't actively seek converts like Christians do).

Just what, exactly, does any of that prove?

[elliotfc]

Originally posted by JamesM
As an aside, of all the people that you would imagine Jews might not like very much (Nazis, Islamofascist terrorists, Christians), it is the Messianic Jews that they loathe the very most.

As a further aside there exists also the organisation 'Jews for Hitler', but at last count, this only consisted of one (very confused) person. I read about him in 'Apocalypse Culture II'.

I don't how you can speak for the "Jews".

I used to date a humanistic Jew, I used to live in a house run by ultra-orthodox Jews. I don't know that I agree with you when you say Messianic Jews are "loathed". What do you base that declaration on?

I think if you submitted a list to, say, 1000 Jews, and asked them to identify what group they "loathed" the most, I'd be shocked if Messianic Jews came out on top. As far as I know, no Messianic Jew in my lifetime has ever killed another Jew...

There is a converted Jew named Rosalind Moss who I am almost certain would disagree with you, because she continually speaks about excellent conversations and interactions she has had with Jews, and I'd venture to guess if that she was assaulted with loathing she would mention it in her books and stuff.

As an aside, anybody ever hear of John Sack? He wrote a book called "Eye for an Eye". Now, John Sack is a Jew, and he is loathed by thousands, if not millions, of his fellow Jews. Not sure if I should give away the thesis of the book. It's a fascinating read.

Then again, perhaps John Sack is loathed because he speaks at *the Holocaust never happened* gatherings. Sack doesn't agree with that position, yet based on the thesis of "Eye for an Eye" you'd understand why he'd be popular with those types.

-Elliot

[elliotfc]

Originally posted by Upchurch
edited to add: btw, buki, I don't get the spamming troll line. seems like a legitament question to me.
[/B]

If I may speak for buki...

I think he might have thought that the person who brought up the topic was more interested in selling, or promoting, or getting people to read the book Betrayed, than in getting a discussion going.

-Elliot