Regarding School Shootings, a CT! ^_^;

[solidslade]

Ok, enough with the 9-11 truth movement.

Here's something that's been bugging me for a long time (and some of y'all will call me "kookish" for this one..... just hear me out though.)

Almost all the school shootings we hear on the news, and most recently the VTech shooting with Cho, always involve some kid who has :

1. Suffered some form of "psychological disorder"
2. Has been put on a drug; Paxil, Zanex (sp?), etc.

Most of the media blames the parents, video games, the lack of gun control, or anything else in between. Shouldn't we be looking at the possible side effects of these so-called "medications" prescribed for depression / mental disorders? ie : taking this drug will make you feel like a robot, and will NOT suppress your violent tendencies.

I remember being prescribed Paxil for at least 6 months for my anger management problems, and I quite remember the feeling of being remorseless and emotionless during that time. I had a "violent" train of thought, but it lacked emotion behind those thoughts. (I claim no professional background in psychology, just speaking from my experience.)


The whole school shooting phenomena, and all these kids being dosed up on drugs, and no ones talking about THAT in the news.

Heck, thats my "conspiracy theory". Let's discuss! ^_^;

[boloboffin]

Actually, Fox News was all over that angle of it. I know because I'm in training to be a voice captioner, and I was practicing on Fox that day. At least one, and possibly two commenters were quite certain that the psychotropic drugs he was on had turned him into an emotionless killer. I don't know if that continues to be the case.

[solidslade]

Actually, Fox News was all over that angle of it. I know because I'm in training to be a voice captioner, and I was practicing on Fox that day. At least one, and possibly two commenters were quite certain that the psychotropic drugs he was on had turned him into an emotionless killer. I don't know if that continues to be the case.

Yeah true that. But no one seems to be going hard on the biotech companies, nor the psych-counselors who respond to the school shooting cases. These days, when a teenager "acts up", parents just dose them up with a drug.

These days, almost NO ONE is investigating the effect of the psycho-active "help" drugs given to kids.

[uk_dave]

I dunno.

Clinically depressed person flips and does something disasterous, and we're going to blame the medication?

I could accept that if a person was on medication for some other complaint and a side effect of the drug caused depression or psychotic behaviour.

But if a person has a pre-existing mental illness, and it can be shown that others who commit attrocities have the same illness, it kinda seems likely they would also be on the same medication.

Perhaps the worst we can say is that the medication failed to do what it said on the tin.

Much more productive to remove the means for someone who behaves psychotically to carry out widespread slaughter.

Gun Control! :boxedin:

[TOHMS]

See who has weight with the lobby in Washington, that's right, the drug lobby. Same reason they were trying to outlaw pharamaceudicals from Canada to "protect" our safety.

[firecoins]

I don't think there were any guns involved at all. I am a no gunner. I think a team of government agents went around throwing bullets at people.

[Triterope]

This always happens after a mass murder. After the shooter is identified, the hackjackals in the media examine every trivial aspect of the gunner's life, looking for serial-killer cliches. Every book, record, video game, DVD, soft drink, fast food wrapper, loose-leaf notebook, ex-roommate, medication, journal entry, and eBay purchase will be scrutinized, as if the shooter was a perfectly normal guy until he made one mundane decision that turned him into a psychopath.

These amateur investigations never turn up anything that isn't also true of a million other people who don't shoot up schoolyards. It's incredibly disingenuous to suggest a link between anti-depressant medication and mass homicide just because this shooter happened to be taking it. Post hoc ergo propter hoc. Hell, I think this guy's problem was not taking enough medication, i.e., anything short of a lethal dose.

Besides, this particular murderer was kind enough to leave behind video evidence of just how messed up he was. When a guy shoots 60 people, makes 28 videos about it beforehand, and mails them to NBC, what's the point of rummaging through his medicine cabinet?

These days, almost NO ONE is investigating the effect of the psycho-active "help" drugs given to kids.


I agree. But this isn't the way to go about it.

[Architect]

I think that people like there to be a deeper or more profound underlying reason, rather than just facing the stark reality that one nutter with access to a gun can do so much, and be so evil. I also think that kind of mentality is fairly endemic in the CT community.

Evil is so banal.

[Civilized Worm]

I dunno.

Clinically depressed person flips and does something disasterous, and we're going to blame the medication?


Exactly, it's more likely that he was taking enough or would have been better on something else. No medication is guaranteed 100% effective anyway.



To quote Chris Rock: Whatever happened to "crazy"?

[Cl1mh4224rd]

I think that people like there to be a deeper or more profound underlying reason. . .
I don't even think the reason has to be deep or profound; it just has to be simple. People want simple reasons/causes because they're easy to "fix".

"This kid played Dungeons & Dragons. Ban D&D and the problem goes away!"

"This kid played violent video games. Ban, or severely restrict the sale of, violent video games and the problem goes away!"

"This kid had access to guns. Ban, or severely restrict the sale of, guns and the problem goes away!"

It's easier to "fix" material problems than it is to fix mental problems.

[kevin]

Just because he was proscribed meds doesn't mean he was taking them. Not sure if that information will be made public.

Further, recently a link was found between anti-depressants and suicides, so clearly people are looking at the side-effects of these drugs. I don't think you can say no one is looking into this. The problem is that the sample size is so small (school shootings are very rare) so I'm not sure you'll be able to really study this.

I did find this web page that makes the claim about Columbine. I found it by searching on "pyschotropic drug suicide", where I misspelled psychotropic. Searching on the correct term has more belivable site.

http://www.breggin.com/luvox.html

[Mobyseven]

In Solidslade's defence, can't some antidepressants that work on adults increase suicidal tendencies and thoughts in teenagers?

I might be way off here, but I remember having a discussion of some type with my GP about this one...

[Liszt]

these are the problems

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin_specific_reuptake_inhibitors

They have been linked to loads of weirdness.

I was studying psychology 15 years ago when ADD (or ADHD) was first "known" to psychologists. We thought that parents would never be so stupid as to test drugs on their children, but we were wrong. (Ritalin, for example, was rejected by every clinical psychologist I ever met. How the hell did it become so freely available? That´s a real conspiracy.)

[Mobyseven]

Another issue (seperate to this one I suppose) is the effect that anti-depressants can have on your sex-drive.

I had a friend once (well, I still do, he just lives in a different city to me now) who had to go on antidepressants, and he basically lost his libido. I often wonder what the effects of THAT would be on a teenage boy's frame of mind...I know it wouldn't sit well with me.

[gumboot]

This always happens after a mass murder. After the shooter is identified, the hackjackals in the media examine every trivial aspect of the gunner's life, looking for serial-killer cliches. Every book, record, video game, DVD, soft drink, fast food wrapper, loose-leaf notebook, ex-roommate, medication, journal entry, and eBay purchase will be scrutinized, as if the shooter was a perfectly normal guy until he made one mundane decision that turned him into a psychopath.



Which is odd...

After the Columbine shootings the United States Secret Service did a huge study of high school shootings. Their conclusion was that the killers did not follow any sort of pattern, and there was no way to predict who would go on a rampage and who wouldn't. There is no school shooter profile whatsoever. Some were insane, some weren't. Some were loners, some had lots of friends. Some were teased, some teased others. Some were religious, some weren't. No patterns.

-Gumboot

[gumboot]

Another issue (seperate to this one I suppose) is the effect that anti-depressants can have on your sex-drive.

I had a friend once (well, I still do, he just lives in a different city to me now) who had to go on antidepressants, and he basically lost his libido. I often wonder what the effects of THAT would be on a teenage boy's frame of mind...I know it wouldn't sit well with me.



But if you had no sex drive you wouldn't care...

-Gumboot

[Cuddles]

So where exactly is the conspiracy? Let's assume that children are given drugs for which the side effects aren't fully known. All that means is that some children are given drugs for which the side effects aren't fully known. Unless you are proposing that pharmological companies are deliberately covering up data that shows certain drugs can turn people into mindless killers there doesn't seem to be any conspiracy involved.

[Belz...]

I think that people like there to be a deeper or more profound underlying reason, rather than just facing the stark reality that one nutter with access to a gun can do so much, and be so evil. I also think that kind of mentality is fairly endemic in the CT community.

Evil is so banal.

You think people have developped a resistance (or immunity) to reality ?

[ktesibios]

I think that people like there to be a deeper or more profound underlying reason, rather than just facing the stark reality that one nutter with access to a gun can do so much, and be so evil. I also think that kind of mentality is fairly endemic in the CT community.

Evil is so banal.

I suspect that has a lot to do with the origin and growth of JFK conspiracy theories- the fact that emotionally the equation just doesn't seem to balance.

On the one hand, you have Kennedy- rich, good-looking, charismatic, successful (I mean, getting elected President and doing Marilyn Monroe is pretty much the early-sixties dictionary definition of "successful"), leader of an extremely powerful nation...

On the other hand, you have Oswald, a guy who could serve as the illustrated dictionary example of "pathetic loser".

The mind compares the two and says "does not compute".

A conspiracy theory about a vast and shadowy group of powerful evildoers preserves the dramatic unities so much more nicely, so it starts with an emotional advantage over a dry collection of pesky facts.

[NoZed Avenger]

I don't even think the reason has to be deep or profound; it just has to be simple. People want simple reasons/causes because they're easy to "fix".

"This kid played Dungeons & Dragons. Ban D&D and the problem goes away!"

"This kid played violent video games. Ban, or severely restrict the sale of, violent video games and the problem goes away!"

"This kid had access to guns. Ban, or severely restrict the sale of, guns and the problem goes away!"

It's easier to "fix" material problems than it is to fix mental problems.

I would add this : it seems important that we be able to believe that the problem *is* fixable. We therefore reassure ourselves that everything is under our control.

Because if we admit that there may be no good way to stop something along these lines from happening, then we have lost control over a part of our lives. we don't feel safe any more.

Better to cling to the illusion of safety and pass a worthless law or three.




/end untrained, half-assed psychoanalysis