Pentagon spin on Iraq 'heroes' exposed.

[qarnos]

Once again the U.S. government demonstrates how terribly bad they are at keeping secrets:

Pentagon spin on Iraq 'heroes' exposed (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/04/25/whero25.xml).

Are these the same guys who are covering up 9/11, The Moon landings, UFOs and god science knows what else? :eye-poppi

[jhunter1163]

This is a good point.

The Pentagon brass can't even keep the less-than-heroic truth about feel-good stories like Jessica Lynch's from coming out. How do the Truthers expect they could keep the lid on something like 9/11?

[Redtail]

This is a good point.

The Pentagon brass can't even keep the less-than-heroic truth about feel-good stories like Jessica Lynch's from coming out. How do the Truthers expect they could keep the lid on something like 9/11?

Doesn't count. The only ones that do are the ones that the truthers figure out for themselves.

IIRC she always said; her convoy was hit and she was in a daze. Then she was treated well in the hospital and the guys came and got her. I really don't understand why this is being reported as if it was a shock. (Unless One of my buddies from the Army told me about it and I was really drunk at the time and thought I was watching TV...):covereyes

[Piggy]

Y'know, even after all the lies, the incompetence, the cronyism, the blind ideology, the lawbreaking, the subversion of the Constitution, the co-opting of Congress, the attempts to usurp the judiciary, the killing of innocents, the condoning of torture, the tremendous waste of billions of dollars, the breaking of promises, the suppression of science, the betrayal of the faithful, the alienation of allies, the slander of political opponents, the poisoning of the political process, the ruining of careers, the wanton recklessness, the unraveling of security, the encouragement of terrorism, the destabilization of the globe... it may be this sin which finally ruins the Bush regime.

Maybe now, enough Americans will see these people for who they are. Maybe now, enough Americans will realize who we're dealing with -- a regime concerned with the maintenance of their party's political power over all else... a regime that doesn't even blink at the opportunity to lie openly about dead and wounded American soldiers if it will help them hold their grip over our country.

Their goal is a "new American century" of global empire, and a permanent Republican majority in the U.S.A. But like all their other schoolboy plans, neither is feasible.

Sadly, we and our children will "reap a harvest of groans and tears" for their folly.

[gumboot]

Politics sub forum please... this has nothing to do with conspiracy theories.

(It's also very very old news...)

-Gumboot

[brodski]

Politics sub forum please... this has nothing to do with conspiracy theories.

(It's also very very old news...)

-Gumboot

This clearly relates to actual evidence of a conspiracy in the military, it also shows how limited (and self limiting) these conspiracies are. There is new information on this due to eth new testimony, I think it is perfectly appropriate to discuss this here and now.

[gumboot]

This clearly relates to actual evidence of a conspiracy in the military, it also shows how limited (and self limiting) these conspiracies are. There is new information on this due to eth new testimony, I think it is perfectly appropriate to discuss this here and now.



I didn't read anything in that entire article that I haven't know for several years... :confused:

I was following CNN live on the internet during the entire invasion of Afghanistan and invasion of Iraq and I don't remember ever hearing the stories presented as alleged in these articles...

Some people seem to have a very short memory...

-Gumboot

[The Doc]

I see no reason to put the word "heroes" in quotation marks in the headline of the news article. Anyone who goes to war to fight for their country is a hero in my opinion, regardless of whether they did or did not go through the ordeals the Pentagon alleges they went through. Stripping a soldier of his hero title simply because they aren't part of some Rambo style fight to the end is quite wrong in my opinion.

On topic though, you raise a good point qarnos. If the US government can't even keep this a secret, how on earth are they supposed to keep the biggest conspiracy in history secret? Especially considering the number of people that would have been needed to pull it off.

[WildCat]

On topic though, you raise a good point qarnos. If the US government can't even keep this a secret, how on earth are they supposed to keep the biggest conspiracy in history secret? Especially considering the number of people that would have been needed to pull it off.
That's exactly what THEY want you to think!

[qarnos]

I see no reason to put the word "heroes" in quotation marks in the headline of the news article. Anyone who goes to war to fight for their country is a hero in my opinion, regardless of whether they did or did not go through the ordeals the Pentagon alleges they went through. Stripping a soldier of his hero title simply because they aren't part of some Rambo style fight to the end is quite wrong in my opinion.

I agree 100%. I actually wanted to leave the quotes out, but since it was a quote of their title, I thought I probably shouldn't.

On topic though, you raise a good point qarnos. If the US government can't even keep this a secret, how on earth are they supposed to keep the biggest conspiracy in history secret? Especially considering the number of people that would have been needed to pull it off.

I'm actually waiting for the troofers to latch on to this and use it to establish a post-precedent (is that the right term?). I mean, they use Northwoods - why not this?

[The Doc]

That's exactly what THEY want you to think!

Does this mean I should buy a 9mm pistol, a shotgun, an AK-47 (or M16), thousands of rounds of ammo, food supplies, water etc, and get ready for the revolution?

:p

[qarnos]

Does this mean I should buy a 9mm pistol, a shotgun, an AK-47 (or M16), thousands of rounds of ammo, food supplies, water etc, and get ready for the revolution?

:p

Don't forget the bike.

And a bell.

[The Doc]

I agree 100%. I actually wanted to leave the quotes out, but since it was a quote of their title, I thought I probably shouldn't.

Agreed. I left you out of my post because I knew you were just quoting from the story ;) You're right though. It's always best to leave the headline as-is to avoid "OMFG QUOTE MINING!" from the conspiracy theorists who attempt to gain any minor victory they can around here.

[quote]I'm actually waiting for the troofers to latch on to this and use it to establish a post-precedent (is that the right term?). I mean, they use Northwoods - why not this?

Give it time my friend. Give it time :p

"If they faked stories from Iraq... It's just obvious they faked 9/11!!!". I can see that on Prisonplanet tomorrow lol.

[The Doc]

Don't forget the bike.

And a bell.

Lol. How could I forget.

This is turning into a game of Grand Theft Auto rather quickly now isn't it?

[brodski]

I didn't read anything in that entire article that I haven't know for several years... :confused:

I was following CNN live on the internet during the entire invasion of Afghanistan and invasion of Iraq and I don't remember ever hearing the stories presented as alleged in these articles...

Some people seem to have a very short memory...

-Gumboot

You where aware of this congressional testimony years before it was made?

If you never heard the versions on the stories referred to in this testimony you obviously avoid the populist press- most people don’t.
Although the less dramatic/ heroic sides of these stories were out and about long ago, it is still the military spin versions which people seem to remember, and if you only had a casual interest in both wars, it is likely that it would only be the military spin versions which would stick in your mind.
And those that where interested may have known all about it, but this shows that now something is being done about it- which again shows how “the establishment” are willing to eat “their own” when they perceive wrongdoing and/ or perceive political advantage in it.
Another blow to the CT mindset.

And yes, people do have very short memories, that’s how politics is played.

[qarnos]

I didn't read anything in that entire article that I haven't know for several years... :confused:

I was following CNN live on the internet during the entire invasion of Afghanistan and invasion of Iraq and I don't remember ever hearing the stories presented as alleged in these articles...

Some people seem to have a very short memory...

-Gumboot

The politics of the situation isn't the point. The point is, the U.S. government tried to fabricate a story surrounding the events, and couldn't keep it hushed up. The truth, and I mean the real truth, came out.

I will also note that the truth wasn't discovered by a pimply 14 year old know-it-all brat watching youtube videos and drawing lines on a picture.

[gumboot]

You where aware of this congressional testimony years before it was made?


No, I was aware of the information it was revealing. It's not surprise to me that Jessica Lynch was captured without resistance, that she was treated appropriately, that her rescue was instigated by Iraqis (who were initially turned away by Americans) and so forth. It's no surprise to me that Tillman was killed by friendly fire, not by enemy action, and that the soldiers involved were told not to talk about it.




If you never heard the versions on the stories referred to in this testimony you obviously avoid the populist press- most people don’t.


And yet somehow I managed to learn this suddenly-revealed shock-horror truth? From CNN and Time Magazine no less. Make sense? Not to me, it doesn't.

How about a new theory - the sensationalist American press made these figures into super heroes with a bit of fantasy writing, and when the real press revealed their fantasies for what they are, they pointed the finger at the military...

Foreign press like the BBC, ever eager to illuminate the less admirable elements of the US, leaped on these clearly sensationalist reportings and portrayed them to their public as if this was the US media's standard presentation of the event.

(And yes, during the invasion of Iraq, when I was keeping track on about 6 different networks, I saw EXACTLY this happen any number of times)



Although the less dramatic/ heroic sides of these stories were out and about long ago, it is still the military spin versions which people seem to remember, and if you only had a casual interest in both wars, it is likely that it would only be the military spin versions which would stick in your mind.



And yet I remember the military talking about these events, and I don't remember them using these "military spin versions". I was vaguely aware of places like ABC and Fox creating sensationalist versions of events, but I never recall seeing a uniformed person do anything of the sort.

For what it's worth, this isn't the first time I've heard claims that the military presented an event a certain way when they didn't - the media did.

An example is all that talk of a "quick easy win". From day one, I've only ever heard military staff say the job in Iraq would take a very long time, would be very hard, and would cost lives.

Certain elements of the MEDIA and certain POLITICIANS proposed otherwise. Never the military.

-Gumboot

[Vincent Vega]

Does this mean I should buy a 9mm pistol, a shotgun, an AK-47 (or M16), thousands of rounds of ammo, food supplies, water etc, and get ready for the revolution?

:p

Food supplies and water??? Damn I knew I forgot somthing! :confused:

[Vincent Vega]

Foreign press like the BBC, ever eager to illuminate the less admirable elements of the US, leaped on these clearly sensationalist reportings and portrayed them to their public as if this was the US media's standard presentation of the event.
-Gumboot

If I recall a certain reporter (Fisk) even went as far to report for the BBC that the SOF involved in the "staged Hollywood" rescue fired only blank ammunition. :boggled: Trash journalism at it's lowest.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote=qarnos;2549399]


Give it time my friend. Give it time :p

"If they faked stories from Iraq... It's just obvious they faked 9/11!!!". I can see that on Prisonplanet tomorrow lol.

this crap only fuels the "Military fakes casualty lists" claims that I am constantly trying to put down.

[Travis]

At the time army spokesmen briefed that Miss Lynch, a driver in an ambushed convoy, fought heroically until she was taken by Iraqi forces and then rescued from hospital by US troops.

In fact she did not fire a shot and was wounded by the crash caused by a grenade attack on her vehicle. Her removal from hospital was co-ordinated with the Iraqis.

This was never the "official" version of events. I remember it being reported that she, and some others in the same convoy, surrendered without firing a shot BEFORE she was even rescued. I do remember hearing the story but I dismissed it as a sort of urban legend, never did I suspect that a lot of people actually thought it happened. I feel The Telegraph is doing some bad slandering here.

Additionally it was well known, at least by me and everyone I know, that the Iraqi's had treated her well and that it was an Iraqi who had revealed her location. Also, at the press confrence either the day of or the next, it was made clear the hospital had been abandoned and that the SOF's had encountered no resistance in executing the mission.

Thanks in part to media spin, she became a national heroine only to disappoint the nation by telling the truth.

They admit it was media spin but still want to flog the US military over it? This just does not make sense.

[fezzic]

Something on what happened to Jessica Lynch. The author makes claims of having investigated and is thereby writing from a position of some authority on the events. Up to you whether you believe or disbelieve his story.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/013/568yzazb.asp?pg=1

[Travis]

His account confirms my recollection that the "warrior Lynch" story was not a military generated propaganda affair but something made up or misattributed by the media.

[chipmunk stew]

His account confirms my recollection that the "warrior Lynch" story was not a military generated propaganda affair but something made up or misattributed by the media.
Why did they wait a day to "rescue" her so they could bring in a video crew?

[gumboot]

Why did they wait a day to "rescue" her so they could bring in a video crew?



Special Forces teams normally document their missions with video cameras.

-Gumboot

[fezzic]

Any military operation takes time to plan and coordinate the various activities that are to occur. It is doubtful that any commander would want to send his troops into a situation where they might run into more opposition than was known or likely and not be able to support them and get them out. Think Mogadishu.

If new intel said that her life was in imminent danger or that she was going to be moved elsewhere, the SOF would probably have rushed in immediately.

[Travis]

The big reason for the delay in Lynch's extraction was to ensure that the operation was adequately planned. The big fear of everyone was another Operation Eagle Claw or a Battle of Mogadishu or some ungodly combination of the two. This anxiety was not without merit, the USMC had to really fight for An Nasiriyah. They had lost several Amtracs in the battle, had a tank platoon get stuck in wet sand right in the middle of crossfire, the Fedayeen were everywhere with a seemingly endless supply of RPG's and to top it all off the weather was bad.

The Fedayeen were the big worry. They had already demonstrated a suicidal tendency and were also not shy about summarily executing anyone who even mentioned the word "retreat." For more accounts of those activities and the plight of 1 MEF a good book I read awhile back is The March Up by Col. West.

Ultimately, if I remember correctly, the operation went down with Marines from Task Force Tarawa conducting a diversionary attack while Navy SEALS came in by helicopter, landed on and actually entered the building; simultaneously Army Rangers parachuted in and seized a nearby ad hoc landing strip where the force evacuated on C-130's.

It's been awhile though, I'll have to look this up.

[gumboot]

Ultimately, if I remember correctly, the operation went down with Marines from Task Force Tarawa conducting a diversionary attack while Navy SEALS came in by helicopter, landed on and actually entered the building; simultaneously Army Rangers parachuted in and seized a nearby ad hoc landing strip where the force evacuated on C-130's.



Almost... :)

Marines provided a diversion while the recovery was conducted by a combined force, inserted by Chinook and Blackhawk from 160th SOAR. Rangers provided a perimeter outside the building (and were actually engaged by enemy forces during the mission) while a combined force of SEALs, DELTA, and PJs (USAF Para Rescue) entered the building, secured it, and recovered Lynch. The bodies of 8 other US soldiers were also recovered from a nearby shallow grave. No enemy forces were encountered inside the hospital itself. The rescue force then exfil'd on helicopters.

As an indicator of how seriously the mission was treated, an AC-130 Spectre gunship was on station the entire time, in the event of heavy enemy resistance.

-Gumboot

ETA. the mission you described with Rangers securing an airfield, sounds more like the intended plan for Operation Eagle Claw.

[Travis]

Yeah my memory was a bit hazy on all of that. Thanks for the clarification Gumboot

[geggy]

Once again the U.S. government demonstrates how terribly bad they are at keeping secrets

Are these the same guys who are covering up 9/11?

Yeah they're also doing terribly bad at covering up 9/11, it is pretty obvious to anyone by now...well, except for you and your friends.

[qarnos]

Yeah they're also doing terribly bad at covering up 9/11, it is pretty obvious to anyone by now...well, except for you and your friends.

Yeah, except for the fact that the people directly involved in this case came forward and said, "No guys - that's not what happened. The government/media was telling porkies. This is what really happened".

This has not happened for the 9/11 "conspiracy". Well, not unless you count Lauro Chavez. *snigger*

[Belz...]

Yeah they're also doing terribly bad at covering up 9/11, it is pretty obvious to anyone by now...well, except for you and your friends.

You might want to revise that statement, Geggy. Twoofers are the minority. Not that it matters, of course. Truth is not a popularity contest, and common sense is a poor substitute for intelligence.