Injuies from jet fuel / basement bombs

[CHF]

I posed the question on the William Rodriguez thread but it got burried under an avalance of silliness from LT.

What kind of injuries, if any, did people suffer in the sub-levels of the WTC?

The OS says that jet fuel tavelled down an elevator shaft, causing the damage to the lobby and basement.

Many twoofers claim that a bomb went off in the basement which weakened the core (even though the towers fell from the top-down). William Rodriguez is their chief witness.

Surely a bomb blast designed to undermine key supports would result in the some serious injuries - such as blowing people apart, causing serious concusion injuries and even shrapnal wounds.

We know that people in the lobby were badly burned and that the smell of kerosene was reported.

What exactly did the basement fuel/bomb cause?

[R.Mackey]

I don't have any unusual insight into injuries, but I will point out that seismographs at the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, which are publicly available, demonstrate conclusively that there were no explosions prior to impact.

And before anybody brings up Ross & Furlong, be advised that their claims have been absolutely beat to death (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2506914#post2506914) and exposed as fraud.

[jhunter1163]

Mr. Mackey:

Is it true that vibrations (such as sound waves) propagate faster in steel than they do in air? And, if so, would that not explain Mr. Rodriguez feeling an "explosion" before hearing the blast?

[CurtC]

Sound does travel much faster in steel that in air, and sound in air travels much faster than fuel down elevator shafts. Either could be an explanation for what he remembers, or his memory of that traumatic day could simply not be an exact account.

About the OP, something that sticks in my memory is from the account of one of the first responders, or maybe one of the Naudet brothers with them, that as he entered the lobby of WTC1 he saw the charred corpse of a security guard, still sitting in his desk chair near the elevators.

[R.Mackey]

Yes, speed of sound in steel is about 5100 meters per second, about fifteen times faster than the speed of sound in air.

We have discussed elsewhere how effects like this might, indeed, make it seem to someone in the basement that there were two separate events, when in fact it was all caused by the impact. It's entirely possible. It only takes a few slight modifications to make Mr. Rodriguez's early accounts of his experiences agree completely.

Think of experiencing a high-powered rifle shot fired over your head from a few hundred yards away. You'd first see (maybe) smoke leave the barrel, then hear the crack of the bullet passing by at supersonic speed, and several seconds later finally hear the shot. It doesn't happen to us every day, but it's not all that hard to grasp.

[sleahead]

About the OP, something that sticks in my memory is from the account of one of the first responders, or maybe one of the Naudet brothers with them, that as he entered the lobby of WTC1 he saw the charred corpse of a security guard, still sitting in his desk chair near the elevators.

Upon entering the North Tower, Jules Naudet reported seeing several people on fire.

[Brainster]

The OS says that jet fuel travelled down an elevator shaft, causing the damage to the lobby and basement.

Let me just point out here that some of the jet fuel may have traveled down the elevator shaft but a lot of it probably was the initial fireball being directed that way. When I lived in the Bay Area around 1982 there was a fireball from a gas tanker truck that crashed inside the Caldecott Tunnel that vaporized almost everybody and everything in the tunnel at the time (fortunately it was after midnight and there were not many people there). About the only thing left was the radiator from the gas tanker.

[Disbelief]

Let me just point out here that some of the jet fuel may have traveled down the elevator shaft but a lot of it probably was the initial fireball being directed that way. When I lived in the Bay Area around 1982 there was a fireball from a gas tanker truck that crashed inside the Caldecott Tunnel that vaporized almost everybody and everything in the tunnel at the time (fortunately it was after midnight and there were not many people there). About the only thing left was the radiator from the gas tanker.

I was at Pope AFB when an F-16 hit a 141 on the flightline. It sent a fireball straight back and killed 23 or 24 paratroopers.

[gumboot]

Rodriguez and others report people who suffered flash burns from a fuel air explosion.

-Gumboot

[CurtC]

Weren't all the witness accounts of injuries consistent with burns from fire, and inconsistent with blasts from bombs? So far, every one I've heard is.

[Pope130]

I was at Pope AFB when an F-16 hit a 141 on the flightline. It sent a fireball straight back and killed 23 or 24 paratroopers.

Sorry about this OT.

Disbelief,
I was just outside the 2nd AS building when that happend. Horrible day.

Robert G. Klaus, MSgt USAF Ret.

[gumboot]

Weren't all the witness accounts of injuries consistent with burns from fire, and inconsistent with blasts from bombs? So far, every one I've heard is.


Yeah, I've read dozens and dozens of accounts of injuries consistent with the distinct burns created by a fuel explosion - accounts from all levels of the towers from above the impact zone to the basements.

Haven't heard a single report of a high-explosive type injury.

-Gumboot