*split* Lyte's proof that the Lloyd England's experience is false

[Lyte Trip]

Get real Lyte.

That's Pdho's board.

He and his socks have a long history here.

Which one will you be wearing today?


your credibility is taking flight


Who are you again?

[Disbelief]

Sorry, I couldn't resist. I don't think my opinion would matter much here.

What do you think caused the damage to his windshield?


So, you say your opinion won't matter but you have no problem posting in thread after thread about your theories? If the questions get to hard, do you just quit answering and run in the corner to hide?

By the way, it was a lightpole that caused the damage.

[Lyte Trip]

So, you say your opinion won't matter but you have no problem posting in thread after thread about your theories? If the questions get to hard, do you just quit answering and run in the corner to hide?

By the way, it was a lightpole that caused the damage.

The witnesses in the PentaCon are not a "theory" my friend.

The C-130 pilot's account being impossible is not a "theory".

[Regnad Kcin]

No 95% of 20-30 aviation professionals.That's not what you said when we got down to brass tacks. Must I reconstuct it for you, or would you care to scroll up a few posts and try again?

And being "aviation professionals" (though I do not concede this at the moment) does not make them crash scene investigators. This is fairly simple stuff.

I am sorry they are not over-confident, anonymous, "critical thinkers", on a magician's forum board.Then leave if you don't like it here.

We should have consulted you guys on the pentagon attack. Clearly you know what you are talking about.:rolleyes:Yawn.

[aggle-rithm]

No because they did.

Funny, a lot of professionals state that same thing for Hani Hanjour.

He "did something unbelievably stupid and needlessly complicated".

Do you know of a simpler way to fly a plane into a building?

[Disbelief]

The witnesses in the PentaCon are not a "theory" my friend.


Witnesses are obviously not a theory, since they are real. However, there accounts of the day contribute to your theory. Also, there are more witnesses disputing your theory (even yours do it) than supporting it.


The C-130 pilot's account being impossible is not a "theory".

Again, why are you disparaging a military man with your crappy accusations? Did you interview him? Would you tell him to his face that he is complicit in the crime you purported happened? I asked you before and I will ask again, do you understand what it means "... to protect from all threats, both foreign and domestic?"

[Belz...]

I am sorry they are not over-confident, anonymous, "critical thinkers", on a magician's forum board.

Some of them are over-confident, anonymous, CTers, on a failed film student's forum board.

[Belz...]

Lyte is proving once again that he doesn't REALLY believe what he claims to believe. It's not possible for someone without debilitating brain injuries to buy into the ridiculous notion that some shadowy organization would come up with a plan so stupendously and clumsily convoluted that it would take twice as many resources to cover it up than to execute it in the first place.

Bears repeating...

[T.A.M.]

Would you tell him to his face that he is complicit in the crime you purported happened?

missing critical equipment to perform such an action.

TAM:)

[Belz...]

The witnesses in the PentaCon are not a "theory" my friend.

Nor is it "evidence".

The C-130 pilot's account being impossible is not a "theory".

No, it's a lie.

No because they did.

Circular reasoning.

Funny, a lot of professionals state that same thing for Hani Hanjour.

He "did something unbelievably stupid and needlessly complicated".

Flying into a building is stupid and complicated ?

[Lyte Trip]

Again, why are you disparaging a military man with your crappy accusations? Did you interview him? Would you tell him to his face that he is complicit in the crime you purported happened? I asked you before and I will ask again, do you understand what it means "... to protect from all threats, both foreign and domestic?"

I didn't disparage anyone.

His account is impossible. Period.

Prove how it isn't or stop with your inane comments.

[Lyte Trip]

Flying into a building is stupid and complicated ?

Clearly you don't know the official flight path or the topography of the area.

[Disbelief]

I didn't disparage anyone.

His account is impossible. Period.

Prove how it isn't or stop with your inane comments.

Once again, your theory so you prove it. Until then, I will continue to say you disparage military people like the C-130 pilot and the others that Gravy brought up.

[jaydeehess]

No because they did.

as pointed out this is circular reasoning Lyte.
You believe that they did it because they did it because you believe they did it.

Funny, a lot of professionals state that same thing for Hani Hanjour.

He "did something unbelievably stupid and needlessly complicated".

By this Lyte means the now well and truly debunked notion that the 2.5 minute turn into the building was too complicated for Hanjour even though this is barely more than a standard turn and a stupid thing to do since , according to the professional pilots on P4T, it would be so much easier and better for hanjour to have shoved the column forward when he first saw the Pentagon and attempted a very steep dive at the Pentagon. Somehow these professionals believe that would be the way to go despite this a large aircraft being much harder to control in such a dive than in a turning, 3-4 degree desent.

So, Lyte , shilling for P4T now are you?

[Lyte Trip]

Once again, your theory so you prove it. Until then, I will continue to say you disparage military people like the C-130 pilot and the others that Gravy brought up.


Yes, be like Gravy. Follow his lead.

It's not a theory. Have you researched the C-130 pilots account? Have you compared it to the NTSB flight path. I suggest you do that before you comment any further.

Research it like Gravy would.

[jaydeehess]

.

His account is impossible. Period..

By the same measure, so is Robert's!

[aggle-rithm]

Clearly you don't know the official flight path or the topography of the area.

Again: Assuming you were on a mission to crash a plane into a building at all costs, and everyone involved, including yourself, is expendible, then how would YOU have done it?

[Lyte Trip]

as pointed out this is circular reasoning Lyte.
You believe that they did it because they did it because you believe they did it.

By this Lyte means the now well and truly debunked notion that the 2.5 minute turn into the building was too complicated for Hanjour even though this is barely more than a standard turn and a stupid thing to do since , according to the professional pilots on P4T, it would be so much easier and better for hanjour to have shoved the column forward when he first saw the Pentagon and attempted a very steep dive at the Pentagon. Somehow these professionals believe that would be the way to go despite this a large aircraft being much harder to control in such a dive than in a turning, 3-4 degree desent.

So, Lyte , shilling for P4T now are you?


You people look so silly.

Can't you ever discuss things like mature indivduals?

Jaydee,

I am not referring to the turn. Although, it's just silly to propose Hani controlled that craft. i am refering to the "pilot" flying on the official damage path, it is like threading the needle.

Jaydee, are you a pilot? Have bothered to try and speak with the pilots at PFT? Are you really that ignorant, that you base everything on your encounters with or impressions of Rob Balsamo?

[Lyte Trip]

Again: Assuming you were on a mission to crash a plane into a building at all costs, and everyone involved, including yourself, is expendible, then how would YOU have done it?

Immediately and from the top, diving into the middle. Or directly into the front mall entrance where all the bigwigs are.

I wouldn't pass the pentagon, when all i had to do is make a left. Execute a spiral, not knowing if I would be off course or more importantly if fighters were about to blow me out of the sky.

[tsig]

Who are you again?

Your best dreams and your worst fears.

[jaydeehess]

Lyte, are you ever going to explain to me how someone who believes that the plane hit the Petagon can also believe that the fireball occured well enough in advance of the impact so as to cause the view of the impact to be obscured by the fireball that resulted from the impact?

Put another way, how can a person who believes that the impact occured at the same time as or shortly after the fireball also believe that the fireball occured BEFORE the impact?

[tsig]

The witnesses in the PentaCon are not a "theory" my friend.

The C-130 pilot's account being impossible is not a "theory".


A witness is just somebody who saw something. Does not count till you're under oath.

[Disbelief]

Yes, be like Gravy. Follow his lead.

It's not a theory. Have you researched the C-130 pilots account? Have you compared it to the NTSB flight path. I suggest you do that before you comment any further.

Research it like Gravy would.

I just pointed out that Gravy listed witnesses for you and some accounts and you dismissed them out of hand as lying.

Anyway, where is it that you explain why the pilot is lying? I can't seem to find it

[Lyte Trip]

Put another way, how can a person who believes that the impact occured at the same time as or shortly after the fireball also believe that the fireball occured BEFORE the impact?


I don't know what you are getting at.

"It seemed like it made impact just before the wedge. It was like a Hollywood movie or something."

-Joe Harrington

[tsig]

Immediately and from the top, diving into the middle. Or directly into the front mall entrance where all the bigwigs are.

I wouldn't pass the pentagon, when all i had to do is make a left. Execute a spiral, not knowing if I would be off course or more importantly if fighters were about to blow me out of the sky.

What you would or would not do does not matter. Reality is.

Or maybe you imagine yourself in that jet just brining that honking big thing around and into the ground.

Wash hands.

[twinstead]

Actually, declaring all witnesses who counter what you believe as lying or mistaken even if they are in the majority, and declaring all physical evidence that supports the opposing viewpoint as planted is a pretty good way to arrange to always win a debate, at least in your mind.

They must teach that in the more advanced investigator schools.

[Undesired Walrus]

Lyte, are you going to do a course in accident investigation?

[Lyte Trip]

I just pointed out that Gravy listed witnesses for you and some accounts and you dismissed them out of hand as lying.


Which specifically did I say were lying Disbelief? Please point it out.

[Undesired Walrus]

You going to do a course in accident investigation?

[Lyte Trip]

Actually, declaring all witnesses who counter what you believe as lying or mistaken even if they are in the majority, and declaring all physical evidence that supports the opposing viewpoint as planted is a pretty good way to arrange to always win a debate, at least in your mind.

They must teach that in the more advanced investigator schools.

yeah and just saying witnesses were mistaken because it 5 yrs later is also a good way to win a debate....at least in your mind.

[tsig]

Lyte, are you going to do a course in accident investigation?

Courses! We don't need no stinkin' courses

[Undesired Walrus]

List your qualifications Lyte, from high school to now, that qualify you as someone who can investigate an accident and deem it impossible.

Also, again, until you answer, are you going to do a course in accident investigation?

[tsig]

I don't know what you are getting at.



Could be the truth.

Try it you'll like it.

[jaydeehess]

You people look so silly.

Can't you ever discuss things like mature indivduals?

Jaydee,

I am not referring to the turn. Although, it's just silly to propose Hani controlled that craft. i am refering to the "pilot" flying on the official damage path, it is like threading the needle.

Jaydee, are you a pilot? Have bothered to try and speak with the pilots at PFT? Are you really that ignorant, that you base everything on your encounters with or impressions of Rob Balsamo?


One simply cannot disagree with anyone for more than a few posts on P4T without being summarily banned. Surely you know this Lyte.

I have spoken with the P4T poster known as 'bill' (a self described pilot) on another forum and shown him to be an a$$. He divided height in feet by time in minutes and came up with a desent rate of feet per second. ie. he was off by a factor of 60. He also could not calculate the g forces on the plane. I had to do it for him. I asked, several times that he point out where I was wrong and he quite obviously could not even follow the simple grade 12 math. He also believed that a Boeing's computer would not allow the plane to exceed g limits and speed limits and cited Airbus FBW technology to back himself up when in fact boeing has made it clear that a 757 is not a true FBW aircraft and that even on Boeing FBW aircraft the computer will not be given override control. I gave examples of Boeing aircraft , including a 757 that are known to have exceeded the factory recommendations of g forces and Vmo due to inputs to the controls from the pilots.

So much for at least one of the vaunted 'pilots' at P4T. Would it have been required of me to speak with others there too Lyte? Too bad that one cannot discourse with a poster there without drawing the ire of jdx and thus getting banned. however, I asked jdx what the DME/VOR reading was at the last reading in the FDR. He refused to answer. Now it seems to me that the DME reading puts the plane 1.25 miles or so from the Pentagon at the last FDR data frame which does not match the ground image in the NTSB animation. The DME reading would put it several hundred feet before reaching the lamp posts. But P4T and jdx claim that the animation is correct in showing that the plane was over the lamp poles at the time of the last data frame. How do the 'professionals' at P4T deal with the DME/VOR reading? They ignore it!!!!!!!!

Rob Balsamo IS "Pilots for Truth" and yes you are correct that he is a bombastic, conceited, authoritarian who would make a good role model for any third world dictator.

Flying the 'official' flight path is only 'threading a needle' if one assumes that hitting the exact spot of the Pentagon that was hit, was the exact spot that it was required to hit and at the angle that was planned for. Hanjour's mission would have been a success if he had completly missed the front of the Pentagon and crashed into the inner wall of the far side, it would have been a complete success if he had hit the Pentagon at the corner of the building to his starboard along the same angle that he hit the Pentagon, it would have been a complete success if he had hit the Pentagon from any other direction or angle and the Pentagon is a very large building. In fact Hanjour's mission would have been at least partially successful had he crashed into I-395!

[aggle-rithm]

You people look so silly.



Try rubbing your eyes.


Jaydee, are you a pilot? Have bothered to try and speak with the pilots at PFT? Are you really that ignorant, that you base everything on your encounters with or impressions of Rob Balsamo?

Why would anyone discuss this issue with make-believe pilots when there are plenty of REAL pilots available?

[tsig]

Clearly you don't know the official flight path or the topography of the area.
Shoot and arrow and where it lands paint a target.

Hit the bulls***t every time!

[aggle-rithm]

You going to do a course in accident investigation?

I would like to know this too, Lyte. If you really believe what you say you believe, wouldn't it be irresponsible to not try and learn as much as you can about accident investigation? If you really believe it's the "truth", then wouldn't knowledge help your case better than ignorance?

[tsig]

Which specifically did I say were lying Disbelief? Please point it out.

All of them 'cept those you believe

[jaydeehess]

Originally Posted by jaydeehess

Put another way, how can a person who believes that the impact occured at the same time as or shortly after the fireball also believe that the fireball occured BEFORE the impact?


Lyte posts;
I don't know what you are getting at.

Oh come on,,,, Ok

Your interpretation of Robert's statement is that he saw the plane rise over the signage while heading towards the Pentagon, THEN it was obscured by the fireball. Robert says it was "still" obscured when it hit the Pentagon, thus indicating (by your interpretation of what he says) that the fireball occured in advance of the plane hitting the Pentagon.

But Robert finds nothing to say about this being an unsual timing, having the fireball occur first, then impact. Robert is quite convinced that the plane did indeed hit the building as well and most people would have to assume that the fireball occurs asa result of the impact which would mean that it simply would never be described, by anyone who actually believes that the plane crashed, as "still" obscuring the view when impact occured.

[tsig]

yeah and just saying witnesses were mistaken because it 5 yrs later is also a good way to win a debate....at least in your mind.

In your mind is the only place where these things exist.

Or there is even a debate.

[Disbelief]

Which specifically did I say were lying Disbelief? Please point it out.

Here you go:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2547647#post2547647

[jaydeehess]

Lyte, in case you missed it the several times I have said it, my interpretation of what Robert is stating goes as such.

The plane flew over the signage heading for the Pentagon. It then went out of his sight due the plane desending past the high ground of the highway. the highway "still" obscured his view of the impact and all he saw of it was the fireball.

Why did you not ask any of your witnesses to say where they thought the plane had hit the Pentagon Lyte? Had any of them said it hit the upper floors it would lend some small measure of credence to your fly over senario. certainly having any of them saying that it was desending and thus it would have hit lower down on the building would fly in the face of (pun fully intended) your senario.

[HawksFan]

And to continue on where jaydee left off, it could be argued that Hanjor's inexperience led him to having to make the 270 degree turn as he came in to Washington too high. He may have lost his situational awareness and came upon the Pentagon sooner than he thought he would. Who knows? We'll never really know what was going on in that cockpit.

And 'threading the needle' isn't really and apt description of it, as he hit darn near everything in his path on the way to the Pentagon once he was low enough.

[jhunter1163]

So your vaunted 95% of pilots and A & P mechanics at the Pilots for Truth discussion board amounts to...two people. Two whose qualifications to make a determination (by photo analysis alone, I take it?) as to whether or not a 757 crashed at the Pentagon you're certain of.

Posted by Lyte Trip:

No 95% of 20-30 aviation professionals.

I am sorry they are not over-confident, anonymous, "critical thinkers", on a magician's forum board.

We should have consulted you guys on the pentagon attack. Clearly you know what you are talking about.

95% of 30 = 1.5

Looks like a Stundie nominee to me.

[HawksFan]

Posted by Lyte Trip:



95% of 30 = 1.5

Looks like a Stundie nominee to me.


(Psst....95% of 30 =28.5)

[ryanebelhar]

95% of 30 isn't 1.5.

[jhunter1163]

D'oh! *returns to hole*

I may have just Stundied myself... :rolleyes:

[jaydeehess]

D'oh! *returns to hole*

I may have just Stundied myself... :rolleyes:

On the other hand, I have shown one member of that 95% to be an idiot when it comes to the plane into the Pentagon and thus it leaves 91.7% of the 30 (or 27.5 of them) to carry the load. then jdx himself has been shown to incorrect in his first estimation of the g loads on the aircraft and he has also ignored the DME/VOR data it seems so we can eliminate jdx as well. That leaves 26.5 out of the 30 meaning we are down to 88.3%.

Anyone have anything they can add concerning another 'pilot' on P4T other than the posters there known as bill and jdx?

Lyte wishes to shill for P4T? Fine, if HE wants to drop the references to the expertise at P4T that would also be fine.

[The Silver Shadow]

List your qualifications Lyte, from high school to now, that qualify you as someone who can investigate an accident and deem it impossible.

Also, again, until you answer, are you going to do a course in accident investigation?
Trying to get Lyte to answer you is like trying to prove that Paris Hilton is a virgin :p

[jaydeehess]

Painting a target after the arrow has been shot... I like that as a good description of the 'threading the needle' nonsense.

One of the things that the CT' slike to use is that the wing that was hit was less occupied than other areas and thus caused fewer victims on the ground and then saying that this must have been the exact place that had been planned to be hit by the evil gov't conspirators and thus describing hitting that spot as having to thread the needle. Had the plane been a few hundred feet to the left it could have seen the starboard wing hit the building and the rest of the plane crash into the parking lot at which time the CT's would claim that this was done to minimize damage and on the ground victims and that making only the starboard wing hit the building required 'threading the needle'. OR, the plane crashes 50 feet in front of the building and only the densest pieces enter the building and the blast protection of the wall cause the damage and fires to be much less resulting in them stating that this would require the pilot to 'thread the needle'.

Instead we get jdx et al suggesting that Hanjour would have been better served to take this large passenger aircraft into a steep high speed dive. Yes, hitting the Pentagon on a more occupied wing in a steep, high speed dive would have immediatly caused much greater damage and death. However it would be one of the most difficult ways to hit the building with a large passenger jet.

The suggestion then is that because Hanjour did not attempt one of the most difficult paths into the Pentagon and specifically target, and be successful in targetting, a more populous area this somehow indicates that the plane was a deliberate 'false flag' operation by a shadowy, evil gov't.

[jaydeehess]

Trying to get Lyte to answer you is like trying to prove that Paris Hilton is a virgin :p

That video was a fake!:)

[Belz...]

Clearly you don't know the official flight path or the topography of the area.

Do you believe his flying was impossible because of YOUR alledged flight path, Lyte ?

how would YOU have done it?
Immediately and from the top, diving into the middle. Or directly into the front mall entrance where all the bigwigs are.

Unfortunately, in order to do that you'd have to come from a certain direction. Also, time was of the essence, which is why the terrorist attacks were coordinated.

I wouldn't pass the pentagon, when all i had to do is make a left. Execute a spiral, not knowing if I would be off course or more importantly if fighters were about to blow me out of the sky.

That's pretty much what I just said. Of course that would mean hijacking a different plane.

yeah and just saying witnesses were mistaken because it 5 yrs later is also a good way to win a debate

That's because it's a fact. People tend to remember LESS after time has passed. However, because the memory itself degrades and is often compensated for, people rarely notice that their memory has become less reliable.

[fezzic]

People's memories ares also affected by what they see, hear, and read after the fact. I think it would be called "muddying the waters". It would not be unreasonable to expect that witnesses, long after the event, can (with no intent of deceit) remember the events incorrectly or as occuring in the wrong order.

That is why attorneys try to prep their witnesses, when they will be questioning them about events that may be pretty distant in the past, so that their testimony will be consistent with previous testimony or written statements. (hmmm, do I have this wrong??)

[twinstead]

Regardless of all these extraneous points, the fact remains that even if Lyte's 4 witnesses were 100% consistent and 100% in support of his theory (which they are NOT), the fact is that the physical evidence and the overwhelming majority of eye witnesses disagree.

He can claim those witnesses are mistaken or lying all he wants, he can claim the physical evidence is planted all he wants, but unless he can PROVE it, they stand, and all he has is a few anomalous witnesses. And as we all know, anomalous witnesses are a mainstay in any large investigation and accounted for accordingly.

Any court of law on Earth would agree with me.

[mortimer]

Perhaps Lyte's 4 witnesses are government shills, instructed to distract Lyte and his Citizens Investigation Team from discovering the REAL conspiracy. Which is of course to keep marijuana illegal, thereby propping up prices, so the government gets a nice cut every time Lyte "lytes" up.

ITS POSSIBLE SO IT MUST BE TRUE!

[Alt+F4]

He can claim those witnesses are mistaken or lying all he wants, he can claim the physical evidence is planted all he wants, but unless he can PROVE it....

That's why Lyte has become the new Christophera. As others have suggested I too will no longer respond to his posts. At this point, it's just a waste of bandwith.

[jaydeehess]

I missed this little gem
if fighters were about to blow me out of the sky.

Well if any of the hijacked planes had indeed been blown out of the sky then it seems Lyte would classify that as a win for the good guys and an abject failure for the terrorists.

Fact is of course that forcing the gov't of the USA to shoot down a plane and thus kill several dozen of its own citizens would still be a win for the terrorists. For that reason Hanjour quite likely gave no thought to whether or not a fighter was on his tail. He had no way of knowing if there was one there, he had no defence against one and he expected to die anyway so just what about being shot down is supposed to bother him greatly? In the case of flight 93 we have the hijacker possibly deliberatly putting the plane into the ground. That was his only option given the revolt by the passengers and it still resulted in the death of all aboard. Another 'win' for the terrorists despite the heroics of the passengers.

Hanjour just took his time and aimed for his target the best he could. No pressure, he knows and expects and wants to die in the service of his cause in that plane.

[HawksFan]

I missed this little gem


Well if any of the hijacked planes had indeed been blown out of the sky then it seems Lyte would classify that as a win for the good guys and an abject failure for the terrorists.

Fact is of course that forcing the gov't of the USA to shoot down a plane and thus kill several dozen of its own citizens would still be a win for the terrorists. For that reason Hanjour quite likely gave no thought to whether or not a fighter was on his tail. He had no way of knowing if there was one there, he had no defence against one and he expected to die anyway so just what about being shot down is supposed to bother him greatly? In the case of flight 93 we have the hijacker possibly deliberatly putting the plane into the ground. That was his only option given the revolt by the passengers and it still resulted in the death of all aboard. Another 'win' for the terrorists despite the heroics of the passengers.

Hanjour just took his time and aimed for his target the best he could. No pressure, he knows and expects and wants to die in the service of his cause in that plane.


BINGO!

The fact that they had the planes at all was a win. Hitting the buildings was just icing on the cake.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

How about a little reversal, Lyte?

If your fly-over theory were the "official" account from the get-go, what do you think people like you would be saying about...

1) The downed light posts?
2) The damaged generator?
3) The hundreds of witnesses who claimed to have seen the plane impact or head directly for the Pentagon?
3) The complete lack of witnesses claiming to have seen the plane fly over the Pentagon?
4) The airplane debris in and around the impact point?

Would you accept the "official" account and disregard all of these "anomalies", or would you claim the north-of-CITGO/fly-over is an "obvious lie"?

[Corsair 115]

Immediately and from the top, diving into the middle.


Diving an aircraft successfully is actually hard. You have to carefully manage your airspeed lest you overstress the airframe. With the rapid increase in speed you have much less time to correct your flightpath if you are not properly lined up on target. A shallow approach is actually considerably easier for a lower-skilled pilot to accomplish.

For reference, I would recommend reading up about the differences between dive bombing and glide bombing during WWII.

[I Am He]

What is this suppose to mean, Lyte "We do not believe for a second that AA77 flew over or impacted the Pentagon."??? It flew to the north of the Citco Station, it flew up over the fireball you said. Now it wasn't even there?! Then what in hell happened to it?? Did the Pentagon just blow up by itself?? It could not be another plane, because you already said that there was no other plane. All you seem to be doing is burring yourself in lies. Not that anyone could not see that, except yourself, of course. :boxedin:

[aggle-rithm]

Perhaps Lyte's 4 witnesses are government shills, instructed to distract Lyte and his Citizens Investigation Team from discovering the REAL conspiracy. Which is of course to keep marijuana illegal, thereby propping up prices, so the government gets a nice cut every time Lyte "lytes" up.

ITS POSSIBLE SO IT MUST BE TRUE!

I think they're all part of the evil Citgo Coalition.

[T.A.M.]

12 days since Lyte confirmed to me he had given his evidence to authorities for investigation.

TWELVE DAYS LYTE

TAM:)

[twinstead]

I think they're all part of the evil Citgo Coalition.

Ah, the ECC. Of course you realize we will have to kill you for even mentioning the Coalition, don't you?

[aggle-rithm]

Ah, the ECC. Of course you realize we will have to kill you for even mentioning the Coalition, don't you?

Drat.

[jaydeehess]

I really must reiterate;

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydeehess

Put another way, how can a person who believes that the impact occured at the same time as or shortly after the fireball also believe that the fireball occured BEFORE the impact?


Quote:
Lyte posts;
I don't know what you are getting at


Oh come on,,,, Ok

Your interpretation of Robert's statement is that he saw the plane rise over the signage while heading towards the Pentagon, THEN it was obscured by the fireball. Robert says it was "still" obscured when it hit the Pentagon, thus indicating (by your interpretation of what he says) that the fireball occured in advance of the plane hitting the Pentagon.

But Robert finds nothing to say about this being an unsual timing, having the fireball occur first, then impact. Robert is quite convinced that the plane did indeed hit the building as well and most people would have to assume that the fireball occurs as a result of the impact which would mean that it simply would never be described, by anyone who actually believes that the plane crashed, as "still" obscuring the view when impact occured.

Lyte, how can you continue to expect anyone to believe that Robert, who knows the plane hit the Pentagon, could have the fireball occuring well before impact?

Why did you not ask anyone where they had thought the plane impacted, lower floors or upper floors?

[gumboot]

One of the things that the CT' slike to use is that the wing that was hit was less occupied than other areas and thus caused fewer victims on the ground and then saying that this must have been the exact place that had been planned to be hit by the evil gov't conspirators and thus describing hitting that spot as having to thread the needle.



The stupid thing is this isn't even true. The section that was hit had been completed, and was at full capacity on 9/11. It was the adjacent section that was being renovated at the time and was partially vacated.

The reality is the side of The Pentagon that was hit was the side directly facing the direction AA77 came from. Frankly I would find it mildly suspicious if AA77 hadn't hit that side.

And I'd like to take this opportunity to remind Lyte Trip that The Pentagon is the largest office building in the entire world, by a considerable margin.

-Gumboot

[jaydeehess]

And I'd like to take this opportunity to remind Lyte Trip that The Pentagon is the largest office building in the entire world, by a considerable margin.

-Gumboot

Making it the biggest eye of a needle that anyone could care to consider.

There is another thread here entitled something like "what do these buildings have in common"

This question applies to the three buildings hit on Sept 11/01 as well. What they have in common is their size and unigue shape , as seen from the air. The towers stuck out as the highest objects on the horizon for the inbound terrorist pilots while the Pentagon is obviously a unigue shaped, very large building surrounded by lawns and parking loots and situated alongside a major river.


If in fact (in my case it is a guess)the plane was using the VOR at Reagan Airport then it would show in the FDR as his maintaining a track aimed at the VOR until he veered off for the final turn into the Pentagon. Do those who have studied the FDR data know if the VOR heading remains the same for some time up to veering off for the final turn? If he was using visual aids then he likely was looking along the Potomac for his target.

[aggle-rithm]

Making it the biggest eye of a needle that anyone could care to consider.


There's a reason that every target of the hijackers was extremely easy to see from the air -- in fact, they would have been difficult to miss. That's why the White House was crossed off the list of potential targets; the hijackers might have been flying around for hours trying to find it.

I also think it's pretty funny how it supposedly takes an experienced pilot to turn a plane around. Out of all the controls in the cockpit, the one that turns the plane around has to be the easiest one to figure out...

[Calcas]

There's a reason that every target of the hijackers was extremely easy to see from the air -- in fact, they would have been difficult to miss. That's why the White House was crossed off the list of potential targets; the hijackers might have been flying around for hours trying to find it.

I also think it's pretty funny how it supposedly takes an experienced pilot to turn a plane around. Out of all the controls in the cockpit, the one that turns the plane around has to be the easiest one to figure out...


AAL 77 Autoflight Activity

Figure 1 shows a time history of the various autopilot and autothrottle modes engaged on Flight 77, from takeoff from Dulles airport to the end of the DFDR data at impact with the Pentagon. Also shown in the Figure are the values of speeds, altitudes, headings, and Mach that the airplane flew. The values set in the MCP by the pilots (both the American Airlines pilots and the hijack pilots) had a recording error when recorded on the DFDR, and could not be determined.

For most of the flight, until after the hijackers turned the airplane back towards Washington, both the Captain’s and First Officer’s Flight Directors were on. During the takeoff, the autopilot was off, and the Flight Director was issuing roll commands based on inputs made in the MCP, and pitch commands based on inputs coming alternatively from the FMC (when in
VNAV mode) or from the MCP (when in Altitude Hold or Flight Change modes).

Once the flight was cleared to its 35,000 ft. cruising altitude, the autopilot was engaged in LNAV and VNAV modes, which use inputs from the FMC to guide the airplane along the desired horizontal and vertical flight path. During the ascent, and while at the cruise altitude, the right (First Officer’s) autopilot was engaged, and heading select mode was used to maneuver the
airplane horizontally.

The autothrottle was engaged throughout the initial part of the flight. During the climb the autothrottle mode varied between climb thrust mode, airspeed hold mode, flight level change mode, and Mach mode. Upon reaching the cruise altitudes, first at 33,000 feet, then 35,000 feet, the autothrottle switched to a Mach number hold cruise mode, applying thrust to
achieve a Mach number of 0.83.

A few minutes after the hijackers took control of the cockpit (at approximately 08:52), the horizontal mode was changed to a heading select and the airplane began a 180-degree turn back towards Washington. After the new heading was selected, and up until the last nine minutes of the flight, the autopilot operated in modes that receive inputs from the MCP (i.e.,
target values of altitude, speed, and heading set directly by the operators of the aircraft) rather than from the FMC. The autopilot was off for the last eight minutes of the flight. For the remainder of the flight, the horizontal mode remained in heading select and the vertical mode was operated in altitude hold, altitude, or flight level change mode. Similarly, the
autothrottle remained in either airspeed mode or mach mode, except during times of flight level changes.


At about 09:08, after a flight level change was initiated from 25,000 feet, the First Officer’s flight director, the autopilot, and the autothrottle all disengaged. This disengagement was concurrent with a right (First Officer’s) autopilot warning. The autopilot remained off for approximately two minutes, and then re-engaged on the left side (Captain’s side). The autopilot disengaged again, concurrent with an autopilot warning on the left side. After about a half a minute of disengagement, the left autopilot was re-engaged and the autothrottle was re-engaged soon after. Over the next ten minutes, the autothrottle was engaged and disengaged several times, while the aircraft remained at 25,000 feet, until remaining engaged in the flight level change mode during descent from 25,000 feet.

At approximately 9:29, while at an altitude of 7000 feet and approximately 30 nautical miles from Washington Reagan National Airport, the autopilot and autothrottle were disengaged. These remained off during the 360-degree, descending turn to impact with the Pentagon.

AAL 77 Navigation System Activity

Figure 3 shows the VOR stations tuned to by the two VOR receivers on American Flight 77.
The EFIS mode determines the type of display shown on the EHSI. During the initial part of
the flight, the EFIS is in “MAP” mode. In this mode, the EHSI displays an airplane symbol
pointed towards the top of the display, with the magnetic heading and track shown in a
partial compass rose at the top of the display. Various points of interest - VOR stations,
fixes, airports, and so on - can be displayed in their correct position relative to the airplane.
The planned and projected route of flight can also be displayed in the MAP mode. The
range of the MAP mode can be adjusted from 5 miles to 160 nautical miles, depending on
the detail or scale of map required. At about 09:08:20, the display switched to VOR mode; in
this mode, the EHSI displays the airplane’s angular deviation or position relative to a
specified radial from the selected VOR.

The points during the flight at which the VOR receivers were tuned to new frequencies are
shown on the map in Figure 2 as yellow diamonds. The points shown occur after the
hijackers took control of the cockpit. Lines from the airplane flight path to the stations
indicate the VOR stations tuned by the left and right VOR receivers. The point on the flight
path from which the lines originate are the points at which the station was first tuned, i.e., the
points at which the VOR station frequency selected by each receiver changed.
Note that while the EFIS was initially in MAP mode, the left and right VOR receivers were
tuned to stations whose bearings from the airplane differed by about 90 degrees, at the time
at which the VOR station pairs were changed. This illustrates the method the system uses
for obtaining VOR position fixes to update the INS.
During the turn back to the east, the frequency of the right VOR receiver was set to 111.0
MHz, corresponding to the VOR station located at Washington Reagan National Airport
(DCA). At the time the DCA frequency was selected, the station was too far away for its
signals to be received by the receiver. The right VOR receiver remained tuned to the DCA
VOR for the remainder of the flight, except for a 1-minute period at 9:15. The left VOR
receiver was tuned to various frequencies, but was tuned to 113.5 (AML in Herndon, VA near
Dulles Airport) at approximately 9:08. At approximately 9:18, the left distance measuring
equipment (DME) began receiving information from the AML VOR. After receiving the DME
signal, the airplane remained on a constant heading towards the Washington area. At 9:32,
both VOR receivers were tuned to the DCA VOR.

http://www.ntsb.gov/info/autopilot_AA77_UA93_study.pdf

[jaydeehess]

Thank you Calcas.

Seems Lyte is taking the day off from here. No problem , everyone has a life outside of internet forums, right? I certainly do.

When he returns I expect he will continue to shill for P4T.
When he returns will he again deflect or ignore my comments about Robert's statements? I expect so.
Will he answer me why he did not ask his witnesses where they originally thought plane impacted the Pentagon, low down or at an upper floor, when they witnessed the event?

[Bobert]

Lyte has been rather busy over at the LCF changing his stories about the pentagon:
http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8139

Yes great info.

It seems as though some people are thinking that CIT hypothesizes that AA77 flew over the Pentagon.

We most certainly do not.

As Woody has so thoroughly pointed out AA77 was missing.

The random unpublished witnesses that we found on the street overwhelmingly said the plane was "white".

We do not believe for a second that AA77 flew over or impacted the Pentagon.

AND
He is apparently starting to side with Dr. Woods:

The Mark Dice interview made me warm back up to Fetzer a bit.

The no plane stuff is crap but I don't doubt that some sort of advanced/covert/classified/exotic weaponry was used to bring down the towers.

Just like at the Pentagon they used real planes as diversions when the actual destruction was caused with pre-planted explosives/incendiaries/weaponry etc.

http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8233

[John Blonn]

Just like at the Pentagon they used real planes as diversions when the actual destruction was caused with pre-planted explosives/incendiaries/weaponry etc.

No need to be so precise...:rolleyes:

[jaydeehess]

It seems as though some people are thinking that CIT hypothesizes that AA77 flew over the Pentagon.

We most certainly do not.

As Woody has so thoroughly pointed out AA77 was missing.

The random unpublished witnesses that we found on the street overwhelmingly said the plane was "white".

We do not believe for a second that AA77 flew over or impacted the Pentagon

but, as Lyte has said before, this is not a complex, complicated or convoluted scheme. It only involves making a plane and all souls on board disappear (or conversely creating a history for non-existant people and a non-existant aircraft that never was) and false phone calls, while sending two other planes at the Pentagon, organizing a group of agents to plant lamp posts, plane parts, body parts, install and set up a method of setting off the explosives that create the fireball and internal damage and the smells of burning kerosene so that it only seems like the original aircraft and all aboard impacted the Pentagon.

No, not complex, complicated or convoluted at all. perfectly reasonable........:rolleyes:

[Bobert]

.....and to think less then a dozen people couldnt keep Watergate quiet!

[gumboot]

.....and to think less then a dozen people couldnt keep Watergate quiet!



They purposefully leaked the Watergate information so that you sheeple would think the government is incapable of keeping secrets.

-Gumboot

[Bobert]

Aaaaaah so the NWO planned Watergate to attempt to hide their involvement in 9-11!!
They have EVERTHING planned out dont they!
:D

[Belz...]

Drat.

Darat isn't here.

[T.A.M.]

15 Days Lyte...still havent seen any public release on the results of the investigation the authorities are conducting on your "earth shattering" evidence.

TAM:)

[Cl1mh4224rd]

[The Count]Fifteen! Fifteen days. Ah! Ah! Ah![/The Count]

[Bobert]

CIT brings "smoking gun" to say a police station
CIT: Hi officer we have this smoking gun super duper testimony that blows 9-11 WIDE OPEN and proves the government DID IT!!!
Officer: So What does the video depict
CIT: WE HAVE 4 WITNESS WHO QUADRUPLE COLLABORATE THAT FLIGHT A77 FLEW NORTH OF THE CITGO!!!!!!
Officer: Uh do you have any physical evidence?
CIT: WATCH THE VIDEO!!!!
Officer: Do you have any physical evidence?
CIT: Are you with the NWO?

[T.A.M.]

CIT brings "smoking gun" to say a police station
CIT: Hi officer we have this smoking gun super duper testimony that blows 9-11 WIDE OPEN and proves the government DID IT!!!
Officer: So What does the video depict
CIT: WE HAVE 4 WITNESS WHO QUADRUPLE COLLABORATE THAT FLIGHT A77 FLEW NORTH OF THE CITGO!!!!!!
Officer: Uh do you have any physical evidence?
CIT: WATCH THE VIDEO!!!!
Officer: Do you have any physical evidence?
CIT: Are you with the NWO?

Oh well, we will have to wait and see. Lyte assures me he has taken his evidence to the authorities and they are currently investigating...but these investigations take time, he tell me, so I must be patient...so I just sit here, counting the days...

TAM;)

[Horatius]

CIT brings "smoking gun" to say a police station
CIT: Hi officer we have this smoking gun super duper testimony that blows 9-11 WIDE OPEN and proves the government DID IT!!!
Officer: So What does the video depict
CIT: WE HAVE 4 WITNESS WHO QUADRUPLE COLLABORATE THAT FLIGHT A77 FLEW NORTH OF THE CITGO!!!!!!
Officer: Uh do you have any physical evidence?
CIT: WATCH THE VIDEO!!!!
Officer: Do you have any physical evidence?
CIT: Are you with the NWO?



You've got the script. Add some graphics and join in the fun (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=80591)!

[John Blonn]

Earth-shattering evidence indeed. I almost felt a tiny little tremor!

[jaydeehess]

Earth-shattering evidence indeed. I almost felt a tiny little tremor!

Its Lyte's raging clue , no doubt about it.

[JimBenArm]

Earth-shattering evidence indeed. I almost felt a tiny little tremor!
That was just me, passing gas. Excuse me!

[jaydeehess]

Bobert, you have to adjust your dialogue a bit. Lyte doesn't believe that the plane in question is flight 77. It would be "the plane that flew at the Pentagon on 9-11".
..................
CIT: WE HAVE 4 WITNESS WHO QUADRUPLE COLLABORATE THAT the plane that flew at the Pentagon on 9-11 FLEW NORTH OF THE CITGO!!!!!!
Police officer: You mean AA flight 77?
CIT: no, Flight 77 was no where near the Pentagon then. This is the plane that substituted for flight 77.
Officer: Uh do you have any physical evidence?
.............

[jaydeehess]

Thank you Calcas.

Seems Lyte is taking the day off from here. No problem , everyone has a life outside of internet forums, right? I certainly do.

When he returns I expect he will continue to shill for P4T.
When he returns will he again deflect or ignore my comments about Robert's statements? I expect so.
Will he answer me why he did not ask his witnesses where they originally thought plane impacted the Pentagon, low down or at an upper floor, when they witnessed the event?


Those who are no banned at LCF, is Lyte still real busy over there or is there any indication that he is actually taking his earth shattering evidence to law enforcement officials or the MSM?

Look at that. I forgot I would be able to peruse the LCF from my work computer.
I found this gem from ol'LT

"As we have said from day one; it is not necessary to embrace the flyover theory.

The north side claim alone is enough to prove the plane did not cause the physical damage (and therefore that 9/11 was an inside job) so whatever you want to say happened to the plane after that is pretty much irrelevant."

So, it is not neccessary to believe that it flew over the building just that it fly along the north side of the Citgo ,,,,, and then vanished somehow but not neccessarily by flying over the Pentagon. My theory that the plane flew under the Pentagon is looking better now.

[Cuddles]

Well, this thread was a fun read. I think the phrase "Madder than a particularly disturbed box of Guatemalen insanity frogs on LSD" sums it up quite nicely.

[twinstead]

Those who are no banned at LCF, is Lyte still real busy over there or is there any indication that he is actually taking his earth shattering evidence to law enforcement officials or the MSM?

Look at that. I forgot I would be able to peruse the LCF from my work computer.
I found this gem from ol'LT

"As we have said from day one; it is not necessary to embrace the flyover theory.

The north side claim alone is enough to prove the plane did not cause the physical damage (and therefore that 9/11 was an inside job) so whatever you want to say happened to the plane after that is pretty much irrelevant."

So, it is not neccessary to believe that it flew over the building just that it fly along the north side of the Citgo ,,,,, and then vanished somehow but not neccessarily by flying over the Pentagon. My theory that the plane flew under the Pentagon is looking better now.

Wow. What a brilliant way to investigate. It appears that all he has to do is claim to have proved the plane flew to the north side, even though the vast majority of evidence and witnesses disagree, and bam! he doesn't have to listen to any more evidence or explain any anomalies or inconsistencies in his own theory. He wins by default.

Brilliant :boggled:

[jaydeehess]

Wow. What a brilliant way to investigate. It appears that all he has to do is claim to have proved the plane flew to the north side, even though the vast majority of evidence and witnesses disagree, and bam! he doesn't have to listen to any more evidence or explain any anomalies or inconsistencies in his own theory. He wins by default.

Brilliant :boggled:

Isn't it though!!

I notice also the incredible leap of logic that stipulates that a plane that flew along the north side of the Citgo could not produce the physical damage to the Pentagon. Seems to me that it would still be possible for a plane flying that route to hit the spot on the Pentagon wall that did get hit. It would be problematic that the shape of the interior damage was caused by an aircraft flying a trajectory that is more orthagonal to the wall than the official flight path. Perhaps that is what Lyte means.

[jaydeehess]

Lyte, how can you continue to expect anyone to believe that Robert, who knows the plane hit the Pentagon, could have the fireball occuring well before impact?

Why did you not ask anyone where they had thought the plane impacted, lower floors or upper floors?

See posts 292 and 316 in this forum Lyte. You still have not addressed this point.

Let's get specific about questions you failed to ask your witnesses.
1) to Robert T. : You say the plane was 'obscured still' . What was obscuring your view of the plane's impact?
2) to Lagasse : You state that you saw the plane and jumped into your car to make the radio call. What did you see when you first looked out the window again after entering the car? Where was the plane then? (During this interview Lagasse would have his car parked where it was on 9/11/01 and get in the driver's seat and point out the window to where he saw the plane.)
3) to Brooks : We'd like to get an idea of how high up the plane was. Were you able to see the plane as it passed the Citgo station or was it below your sight line behind the Citgo roof?

I suspect Robert would have responded that the plane had gone down behind the highway, Lagasse would have stated that the plane was over the highway and that Brooks would state that he had the plane in sight all the way.

So, obviously if Robert's view was obscured by the highway the plane was headed not for the upper floors of the Pentagon but rather the lower floors and the fireball could not possibly have hidden a flyover since such an pull up would be impossible for even a fighter let alone a large passenger jet.

If Lagasse admits that he lost sight of the aircraft when he entered his vehicle it shows that he does not actually know where the plane passed by the station. I don't care how physically adept he is, one cannot reach for a car door, open the door, enter the car, reach for the radio ALL the while not taking one's eyes off a rapidly moving aircraft anywhere in the sky.

If Brooks states that he saw the plane all the way in one can calculate the lowest possible height that it could fly to the north side of the Citgo and still be visible by him. If this turns out to be much higher than the plane is understood to have been then he could only have seen the plane all the way if it did not fly on the opposite side of the Citgo from where he stood.

[Calcas]

Remember that Merc (the other half of the CIT sooper duper investigative team) said this:

"Here is MY theory that I didn't want to put in the film. Theories are always seemingly picked out before the evidence that cause the theory in the first place.

The Five poles are removed at night through a phony late night road construction detail the week(s) or months prior to 9/11.

Then EARLY on the morning of 9/11 laid out poles 2-5 in the grass. Everyone drives by not noticing 4 poles laid out, inconspicuously, in the grass.

Then shortly before the entrance of our mystery flyover plane...
Perps drive large truck with pole and/or with cab on trailer(cab can also be on another car perhaps car 2 in the southbound lane) northbound throw crushed up glass out by the off ramp by pole 3, and go under bridge drive up on the south bound loop. (Variant: or there are two teams in cars that throw out glass and/or bulb housing debris. One car on northbound loop exit and one southbound lanes near pole 1 and eventual resting spot of the cab.)

Right after the plane flies over and explosion goes off...
Police(blue) get diverted from gas station, the truck/trailer perps stop on loop as if they are shocked. Taxi is unloaded off trailer(yellow) while all are staring at the Pentagon. Truck continues up on the on ramp drops pole 1(green) in the fast/middle southbound lane street on bridge and perhaps bulb/glass debris. Cab eases his way up on the highway with "damage". Our police officer was adamant when he said he was sure the cab was over near that overhead sign (the one the plane flew over), near the on ramp...not on the bridge.

As everyone is distracted, the cabbie pulls up to the final point, the faceless guys in the Saturn pull up and move the pole making the scratch in the asphalt, so they can park their car. And with the assistance of the faceless shirt and tie men in the fire dept Saturn he turns his cab sideways near the pole, giving the appearance that he is helping block traffic going soutbound. Then, perhaps the shirt and tie guys (instead the variant -car 2 sthbound lane) in the Saturn stand around and maybe even drop the glass, bulb pieces perhaps even the little pieces of leaves."
__________________

[rwguinn]

Remember that Merc (the other half of the CIT sooper duper investigative team) said this:

"Here is MY theory that I didn't want to put in the film. Theories are always seemingly picked out before the evidence that cause the theory in the first place.

The Five poles are removed at night through a phony late night road construction detail the week(s) or months prior to 9/11.

Then EARLY on the morning of 9/11 laid out poles 2-5 in the grass. Everyone drives by not noticing 4 poles laid out, inconspicuously, in the grass.

Then shortly before the entrance of our mystery flyover plane...
Perps drive large truck with pole and/or with cab on trailer(cab can also be on another car perhaps car 2 in the southbound lane) northbound throw crushed up glass out by the off ramp by pole 3, and go under bridge drive up on the south bound loop. (Variant: or there are two teams in cars that throw out glass and/or bulb housing debris. One car on northbound loop exit and one southbound lanes near pole 1 and eventual resting spot of the cab.)

Right after the plane flies over and explosion goes off...
Police(blue) get diverted from gas station, the truck/trailer perps stop on loop as if they are shocked. Taxi is unloaded off trailer(yellow) while all are staring at the Pentagon. Truck continues up on the on ramp drops pole 1(green) in the fast/middle southbound lane street on bridge and perhaps bulb/glass debris. Cab eases his way up on the highway with "damage". Our police officer was adamant when he said he was sure the cab was over near that overhead sign (the one the plane flew over), near the on ramp...not on the bridge.

As everyone is distracted, the cabbie pulls up to the final point, the faceless guys in the Saturn pull up and move the pole making the scratch in the asphalt, so they can park their car. And with the assistance of the faceless shirt and tie men in the fire dept Saturn he turns his cab sideways near the pole, giving the appearance that he is helping block traffic going soutbound. Then, perhaps the shirt and tie guys (instead the variant -car 2 sthbound lane) in the Saturn stand around and maybe even drop the glass, bulb pieces perhaps even the little pieces of leaves."
__________________

My question remains: Have any of these guys actually Been on those freeways any time of day?
I have, and the scenario is about as likely as a deer actually making it across the track at 4:00 Sunday afternoon in Talladega on April 29 of this year...

[Belz...]

4:00 AM ? Shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Americans and their funny 12 hour cycles.

[HawksFan]

My question remains: Have any of these guys actually Been on those freeways any time of day?
I have, and the scenario is about as likely as a deer actually making it across the track at 4:00 Sunday afternoon in Talladega on April 29 of this year...

Actually, given the size of the track and the nature of restrictor plate racing keeping the cars in a relatively small pack, the odds of the deer making it across are rather good.

(finally, something on this board that I actually have some knowedge of :D )

[rwguinn]

4:00 AM ? Shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Americans and their funny 12 hour cycles.

er...
"4:00 Sunday afternoon "
I was always taught that 4:00 PM Sunday afternoon was redundant and bad form. Just not done. 7 AM in the morning type of thing...

[rwguinn]

Actually, given the size of the track and the nature of restrictor plate racing keeping the cars in a relatively small pack, the odds of the deer making it across are rather good.

(finally, something on this board that I actually have some knowedge of :D )
An alla them there rednecks air jist gonna let it get past?
C'mon, now!:D :D

[HawksFan]

An alla them there rednecks air jist gonna let it get past?
C'mon, now!:D :D


Well, notice I didn't say anything about it making it through the infield past all the BBQ'ers. :)

[Furcifer]

[QUOTE=HawksFan;2569228]Actually, given the size of the track and the nature of restrictor plate racing keeping the cars in a relatively small pack, the odds of the deer making it across are rather good.

You think that deer is gonna make it through the infield full of "NASCAR fans" on sunday near dinner time? i'd just be praying i was wearing orange when that happened.

[Furcifer]

lmao, i'm new, i gotta learn how to get these thing posted faster or i will look like a hack.

[gumboot]

Actually, given the size of the track and the nature of restrictor plate racing keeping the cars in a relatively small pack, the odds of the deer making it across are rather good.

(finally, something on this board that I actually have some knowedge of :D )



Probability worked against the kangaroo at Bathurst...

-Gumboot

[jaydeehess]

Remember that Merc (the other half of the CIT sooper duper investigative team) said this:

"Here is MY theory that I didn't want to put in the film. .........and maybe even drop the glass, bulb pieces perhaps even the little pieces of leaves."
__________________

Wow, ,,,, just wow. The major components of this 'theory' are "no one noticed" , and "distracted". How can it lose?

[Belz...]

er...
"4:00 Sunday afternoon "
I was always taught that 4:00 PM Sunday afternoon was redundant and bad form. Just not done. 7 AM in the morning type of thing...

That's why the rest of the world would've said "16:00", but then I was just teasing.

[jaydeehess]

Right after the plane flies over and explosion goes off...
Police(blue) get diverted from gas station, the truck/trailer perps stop on loop as if they are shocked

The plan will involve a large jet travelling overhead very fast and the destruction of part of the Pentagon. However, Merc assumes that the people who are to carry out this surreptious, in plain sight, action of planting the lamp pole and broken glass, would be shocked,,,, shocked he tells us,,,, that a couple of police cars might roar by that very spot. Where did he really expect the police to be or to go? The nearest doughnut shop?:jaw-dropp

kee-riest on a stick, that is one complicated, convoluted and stupid theory.

of course it isn't a 'theory' it has absolutly no evidence to back it up. That makes it a senario created out of thin air

[jaydeehess]

Merc's quote above reminds me that Lyte never did address my post, #101 in this thread in which I asked him to confirm his senario.

(with some new editing for clarity)
Lastly, not complex???
Shall we review..............
You have:
a) a several teams that must topple the lamp posts as the plane flies over head. These teams had not been briefed that if the plane did not go over their heads they were to abort the lamp post toppling, or the lamp posts are done along a different flight path as part of a campaign to create an illusion that a plane that did not fly along your flight path.

b) other teams to distribute small aircraft parts in front of the Pentagon
c) the surreptitious planting of explosives at the base of the Pentagon and inside the Pentagon that would blow the wall inward, create a fireball that rockets skyward and simulate the damage to the interior of the Pentagon that a speeding 757 would do (a wedge shaped zone of destruction as opposed to a spherical one)

d) the planting of human remains and aircraft parts within the Pentagon

e) an actual aircraft, flown by remote control, that roars in along your flight path headed for the Pentagon.

f) the explosion occurs before the plane reachs the Pentagon and thus Robert,(and all others, every single last one of them) who believes that the plane did hit the Pentagon, confusingly has the plane entering this fireball thus obscuring the plane from his sight until it does hit the Pentagon.

g) this fireball hides the fact that the plane flies over the Pentagon and somehow convinces everyone, every single last person who saw it hit, that the plane hits the ground floor. this fireball is so distracting that many also describe the plane's wing scraping the ground as it hit when in fact the plane was at that time roaring over the roof behind the fireball.

gg) all the witnesses who state that the plane hit the ground floor, or that it flew along the 'official' flight path are either mistaken, fooled by the fireball and downed lamp posts, or they are lying and probably part of the complex scheme.

h) the plane pulls up fast enough and banks out of the area fast enough that no one who was not facing the impact side of the Pentagon but rather on one of the other sides, who's attention would be drawn to the huge orange fireball, would notice this large jet travelling at no more than about 80 feet agl as it passed through and behind the fireball. This includes but is not limited to people on the other side of the Potomac and thus along the flight path of any aircraft roaring over the top of the Pentagon.

i) the actual flight 77 and all of its souls on board were then caused to disappear or the flight and all those people were faked. Fake life histories, fake families, faked phone calls, no such flight.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

I found this gem from ol'LT

"As we have said from day one; it is not necessary to embrace the flyover theory.

The north side claim alone is enough to prove the plane did not cause the physical damage (and therefore that 9/11 was an inside job) so whatever you want to say happened to the plane after that is pretty much irrelevant."

So, it is not neccessary to believe that it flew over the building just that it fly along the north side of the Citgo ,,,,, and then vanished somehow but not neccessarily by flying over the Pentagon. My theory that the plane flew under the Pentagon is looking better now.

Wow. I hope Lyte's never whined about the NIST not modeling the full collapse of the towers, because that would be... *head asplode*

[T.A.M.]

16 Days Lyte....

TAM:)

[Bobert]

Bobert, you have to adjust your dialogue a bit. Lyte doesn't believe that the plane in question is flight 77. It would be "the plane that flew at the Pentagon on 9-11".
..................
CIT: WE HAVE 4 WITNESS WHO QUADRUPLE COLLABORATE THAT the plane that flew at the Pentagon on 9-11 FLEW NORTH OF THE CITGO!!!!!!
Police officer: You mean AA flight 77?
CIT: no, Flight 77 was no where near the Pentagon then. This is the plane that substituted for flight 77.
Officer: Uh do you have any physical evidence?
.............

It is rather bizarre that now CIT (Lyte) is making statements like
We do not believe for a second that AA77 flew over or impacted the Pentagon.
and
The no plane stuff is crap but I don't doubt that some sort of advanced/covert/classified/exotic weaponry was used to bring down the towers.
Are they going to be doing a tour with Dr. Judy Woods next?
Maybe they should put up a video of Dr. Judy Woods promoting CIT.
That would cool!!
Birds of a feather...

[Bobert]

Wow, ,,,, just wow. The major components of this 'theory' are "no one noticed" , and "distracted". How can it lose?

Hmmmmmm

I was at a party the other day when all of a sudden all the members of teh party were distracted as I had my way with and satisfied 3 playmates.
No one noticed at all as they were distracted by a glowing disco ball.

[Calcas]

kee-riest on a stick,

I haven't heard that in ages.

:D

[jaydeehess]

I haven't heard that in ages.

:D

Well, I am 50+

Bobert, 3 playmates at the same party. Obviously you are younger than I or you have great quantities of a diamond shaped, blue pill.

As for Lyte's "advanced/covert/classified/exotic weaponry", couple that with the non-neccessity of believeing that the plane his Citgo witnesses saw actually flew over the Pentagon one inescapably comes back to that good ol' holographe of an aircraft senario from WTC fame. In this case complete with stereophonic sound effects.

seems the more Lyte speaks the worse it gets for him, though he has some catching up to do if he is to get to the level of Klowntown.

[jaydeehess]

Shall we review what everyone is waiting for Lyte to address.

-T.A.M. wants to know when Lyte will, as promised so many times in the months before the release of "Pentacon", take his evidence to the MSM and law enforcement.

- I want to know how he can explain that Robert, believeing that the plane impacted the Pentagon, also holds the view that the fireball occured well before that impact.(according to Lyte's interpretation of Robert's statement)

- I want to know why Lyte did not ask Robert to clarify what obscured his view, why he did not ask Lagasse about his taking his eyes off the plane while entering his car, why he did not ask Brooks about his view of the aircraft re: whether or not it was hidden by the Citgo station at any time.

- gumboot and others want to know about Lyte's experience with crash investigation



what else we got for Lyte. Just Lyte, let's forget P4T in this thread. Lyte is just a shill for jdx.

[Bobert]

Well, I am 50+

Bobert, 3 playmates at the same party. Obviously you are younger than I or you have great quantities of a diamond shaped, blue pill.

As for Lyte's "advanced/covert/classified/exotic weaponry", couple that with the non-neccessity of believeing that the plane his Citgo witnesses saw actually flew over the Pentagon one inescapably comes back to that good ol' holographe of an aircraft senario from WTC fame. In this case complete with stereophonic sound effects.

seems the more Lyte speaks the worse it gets for him, though he has some catching up to do if he is to get to the level of Klowntown.

Well I have 4 witnesses who will testify that my plane came from the North side and then there was a large explosion!!

[jaydeehess]

Well I have 4 witnesses who will testify that my plane came from the North side and then there was a large explosion!!

Did I say I doubted you?:D

[jaydeehess]

well, I know that bumping threads is rather bush-league(no pun intended) but I really don't want Lyte to have to look too hard to find his way back here and address the points that have been brought up in this thread.

[T.A.M.]

17 Days Lyte...and counting.

TAM:)

[Bobert]

hmmmm Lyte is been strangely hquiet as of late.
The CIT website no longer has the Researchers Edtion for presale despite claiming on the Jeff Rence show at the beginning of April that the RE would be out "in a couple of weeks" so I am speculating
A) The CIT has been sued either for copyright infringement (Lyte once claimed to a group of us that he was worried about this) or by Dylans production company which Dylan had suggested could sue him.
B) Dylan and the CIT kissed and made up and now the RE will be incorporated into the big screen version of LC.

I hope it is B so that the real motivation will be shown as to why Lyte made the RE in the first place.....SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!

[Bobert]

Hmmmm I posted the above and then travelled to fantasy island (LCF) and I notive that have a new background pic of an AA plane flying low and what could represent Flight 77.
Time will tell....

[jhunter1163]

Hmmmmmm

I was at a party the other day when all of a sudden all the members of teh party were distracted as I had my way with and satisfied 3 playmates.
No one noticed at all as they were distracted by a glowing disco ball.



You deed tree Playmates at de same party?

Senor, you goin' to die.

[Bobert]

So are you calling the playmates liars?
Why would they lie?
2 of them are COPS!
Are you saying a cop would lie?

[boloboffin]

The new picture of an AA jet flying low over the ground appears to be using the south route. There is a light pole on the ground behind it.

I really doubt that Dylan's going for the RE version here.

[jhunter1163]

The new picture of an AA jet flying low over the ground appears to be using the south route. There is a light pole on the ground behind it.

I really doubt that Dylan's going for the RE version here.

Where is this picture?! I must see this picture!

[Calcas]

Where is this picture?! I must see this picture!

Not only is it on the South path but it's AA. Lyte's fantasy trip is that there was a plane but not an airliner.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t91/Calcas_2007/test_pentagon_1920.jpg?t=1178284582

[gumboot]

Isn't it flying a bit low?

-Gumboot

[T.A.M.]

Lyte:

18 Days man...

Bobert et al:

Russ Pickering, who believes AA77 hit the Pentagon is an admin over at LCF, and unless something happened, was having at least some influence on that element of things over there.

TAM:)

[Bobert]

True Dat.
I think (well maybe hope is the operative word) that Russell has pulled back from the Pentagon section because Dylan asked him to because Dylan wants to cut ties with the CIT.
I wouldnt blame Dylan after all Lyte has publicly called Merc a "thug".

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Not only is it on the South path but it's AA. Lyte's fantasy trip is that there was a plane but not an airliner.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t91/Calcas_2007/test_pentagon_1920.jpg?t=1178284582

What's this from?

[Calcas]

What's this from?
Avery has it as the background at lcf.

It looks like a still from his animation for his "final" cut.

[apathoid]

What's this from?

FSX would be my guess....

[T.A.M.]

21 days Lyte...thats 3 weeks...still no press conference by the authorities conducting the investigation you promised based on your earth shattering evidence.

TAM:)

[John Blonn]

Yeah really. If this were so "groundbreaking" and "irrefutable," I would have expected at least a little media buzz by now.

[T.A.M.]

well these 21 days are just the count from the time when Lyte told me, in no uncertain terms, that he had infact brought his evidence to authorities, but then condecendingly told me that I needed to be patient, as these investigations TAKE TIME...so I have been counting ever since.

TAM:)

[Piggy]

Yeah really. If this were so "groundbreaking" and "irrefutable," I would have expected at least a little media buzz by now.
Please, man, you're gonna get us all killed!

The Bushies murdered 3,000 Americans to justify the Iraq invasion, then changed their minds and went with the WMD justification thru the UN instead -- that's how callous and ruthless these people are -- what makes you think they'll allow this news to come out?

If you had any idea what these truthers are enduring, the fear, the anguish, all the while working for little guys like us, risking their very lives.... I mean, really, I'd think you could cut them some slack here, give 'em some time.

Now keep your voice down. I gotta go check the grass for glinty things, then I'm cranking up the generator to run the signal scrambler and calling it a night. If a black SUV pulls up out front, I'm gonna know who to blame, pal!

[jaydeehess]

T.A.M., such a serious investigation would indeed take a lot of time and have to be conducted very secretively. One would not want to spook the perpetrators into doing something like shredding docuements or killing off witnesses. That Lyte has indeed kept his CIT investigation low key, only allowing it on the internet, not showing all the raw footage of his interviews is indicative of the secrecy required by such an investigation. If this were instead to become truly public, say by it being taken up by "60 Minutes" or "Anderson Cooper" and broadcast to the nation and around the world too soon, then a lot of people could get hurt.

The Law enforcement investigation must then of course be even super secret-er and could take months, years even. That is unless the evil gubmint doesn't quietly quash it altogether. Its secretive as it is and the public will never know if it gets quashed.

What is really required would be for there to be a way for all of this to be investigated by those with more access and more experience with investigation than the CIT. A group of people who are in enough of the public eye and with the credentials for honesty, and investigatory and scientific accumen that would allow them the safety from persecution by the gov't and credibility in the eyes of the public. People like long time, professional journalists with science backgrounds. Hmmm, like perhaps Scientific American or ASCE.

[jaydeehess]

Piggy, wow, I am slow. I just glommed onto the references in your name,avatar, and location.

[T.A.M.]

22 days Lyte.

jaydeehess:

I get what you are saying...I just don't believe him, and I am counting here as often as I can remember, to let him know I am waiting for his bluff to be called...I may be posting for a while...lol

TAM:)

[Piggy]

Piggy, wow, I am slow. I just glommed onto the references in your name,avatar, and location.

:D

I gotta be me.

Oh, uh... would you mind stepping away from that big rock... makes me kinda jittery.

[jaydeehess]

:D

I gotta be me.

Oh, uh... would you mind stepping away from that big rock... makes me kinda jittery.


Don't worry about me. I'm just hanging around with my parachute.

[jaydeehess]

22 days Lyte.




that would make it 24 days now I believe, T.A.M.

Lyte must be real involved getting extra help from his circle at LC but I am sure he will be back to answer the questions posed on this thread real soon.

Unless he is simply too busy aiding the law enforcement community in the pursuit of the perpetrators of the treason at the Pentagon.

[T.A.M.]

Yes, 24 days....I think I may start counting in weeks, given how long I anticipate before I see any proof of the "investigation" results (likely NEVER).

24 days LYTE

TAM:)

[Bobert]

TAM as an FYI....
Lyte can now be found here:
http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8850

[T.A.M.]

thanks Bobert..

If I thought he didnt read here anymore I might...nah, I wouldnt go over there...he isnt worth that much energy.

I'll just keep tabs over here...

TAM:)

[Piggy]

Ok, fair enough, but I have to share this... the first line from the most recent post when I hit the page:

We now have over 20 Architects & Engineers who have joined AE911Truth.org....

Not just 20, people... over 20!

You got that, folks? Now tell me, are you going to stand here with a straight face and try to say that an organization that can amass more than 20 architects and engineers from around the world could possibly be wrong?

Yeah. That's what I thought.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it, deniers!

[Slayhamlet]

Ok, fair enough, but I have to share this... the first line from the most recent post when I hit the page:

We now have over 20 Architects & Engineers who have joined AE911Truth.org....

Not just 20, people... over 20!

You got that, folks? Now tell me, are you going to stand here with a straight face and try to say that an organization that can amass more than 20 architects and engineers from around the world could possibly be wrong?

Yeah. That's what I thought.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it, deniers!

And not a single one is a structural engineer.

[mailman]

The Bushies murdered 3,000 Americans to justify the Iraq invasion, then changed their minds and went with the WMD justification thru the UN instead -- that's how callous and ruthless these people are -- what makes you think they'll allow this news to come out?
And yet people like Lyte and Avery are still very much alive...and all this after the government supposedly killed 3000 people in cold blood.

Go figure?

If you had any idea what these truthers are enduring, the fear, the anguish, all the while working for little guys like us, risking their very lives.... I mean, really, I'd think you could cut them some slack here, give 'em some time.

Gee, cant be all that risky to their lives since people like Avery and co havent been made to go away by the government :)

Mailman

[Piggy]

Gee, cant be all that risky to their lives since people like Avery and co havent been made to go away by the government :)
Hey, man, when you "know people" like Avery and his crew do, even Rove's thugs gotta watch their step.

No one wants over 20 architects and engineers on their @$$. No one!

[T.A.M.]

4 weeks - thats 28 days Lyte...still waiting.

TAM:)

[jaydeehess]

Hey, man, when you "know people" like Avery and his crew do, even Rove's thugs gotta watch their step.

No one wants over 20 architects and engineers on their @$$. No one!

Yeah, all they had to do was stay hidden in the beginning until they were well known then the MIB can't touch them. In fact the spooks must now follow Dylan et al constantly and make sure that traffic is moving smoothly, no drunks behind the wheel anywhere near them, disinfect all surfaces that they will touch,,etc. After all if anything ever happens to them whether or not the MIB actually did it, we know that the suspicion will fall on the gov't/NWO. If Dylan falls into a septic tank, contracts some gawd awful disease and dies, the NWO will get the blame. He must now live a charmed life else the cat will be out of the bag.

[Arus808]

Seems that lyte has abandoned us to play in the playgrounds of myspace forums; where he bound to find his supporters

http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewThread&groupID=0&page=0&EntryID=2576238&CategoryID=69&get=1&adTopicId=16&keyword=politics&xargstringp=&xargstringn=&lastpagesent=5&Mytoken=9FB7B038-07BA-4A1B-85E9D4446DEA573F3674500

[T.A.M.]

I think he got bored...I'll just keep on counting...

TAM:)

[Arus808]

anyone want to tackle this claim:


Wait till you hear the interview we got with a first responder Fire Captain who was there 2 minutes after the "crash".

You should love that.

Well, they dont give what this "captain" states, nor do they give his name.

[jaydeehess]

Is that a first responder at the Pentagon?

Not much to wrk with. Typical of Lyte though, just a snippet of info that is meaningless. No one can mount an arguement against this since there is nothing there yet. However it allows Lyte to hype it for weeks, months even, and gather a following that way.

Best bet is to just point out that, as a critical thinker, you will wait upon the revealing of what was said before making any judgement, and continue to ask when that might be. Since Lyte's game in the past has been to keep pushing the date of release back it is neccessary to keep reminding him of each missed date as well.

I saw Pentacon and cannot for the life of me understand why it took so long to edit. I have some non-linear editing experience and it is not all that difficult unless Lyte was learning as he went which is entirely possible since the finished product doesn't have much of a polish on it.

[T.A.M.]

must be from his NEVER TO BE RELEASED - ALWAYS TO BE QUOTED FROM version of the PENTACRAP.

TAM:)

[Cl1mh4224rd]

anyone want to tackle this claim:

Well, they dont give what this "captain" states, nor do they give his name.

I can't help but wonder why they kept referring to their first release as "the smoking gun" version when they keep dropping teases about better "smoking guns" only being available in the version they're charging for, which is supposed to be merely the "researcher's edition".

It seems to me that they made the first release as a "trailer" for the later release, but are trying to hide it. If that's the case, their understanding of movie industry attention-grabbing techniques seems to be on par with their understanding of reality; you put all the whiz-bang, blow-your-mind stuff in the "trailer", so that people actually want to pay money for the "movie".

Which is what I would've expected from something being touted as the "smoking gun" version. All the heavy-hitting stuff should've been in there, while the "researcher's edition" should contain all the nitty-gritty details.

Yeesh...

[Piggy]

Best bet is to just point out that, as a critical thinker, you will wait upon the revealing of what was said before making any judgement, and continue to ask when that might be.

I prefer to tell them straight out that they have nothing. If they did, they'd publish it. They have zip, and they never will. No need to wait. They're full of it. Why mince words? If they want to prove me wrong, all they have to do is pony up. Til then, I stand by my word -- they're full of stuff and nonsense, no bones about it. They're liars and fools. Straight up, no chaser.

[jaydeehess]

I prefer to tell them straight out that they have nothing. If they did, they'd publish it. They have zip, and they never will. No need to wait. They're full of it. Why mince words? If they want to prove me wrong, all they have to do is pony up. Til then, I stand by my word -- they're full of stuff and nonsense, no bones about it. They're liars and fools. Straight up, no chaser.


Well , that's really just a slightly more direct way of doing exactly what I said.


Basically it would go something like this;
Wayne and Garth say doodliliddle , doodiliddle.......

Twoofer: What about theanonymous person who was supposedly on the scene? they said this paraphrased quote! We videoed them saying it!

Intelligent person: When you show me the video, all the video not just the edited version, I will be able to comment on this. Until then I have nothing other than your own paraphrase or slant of what that person said. When will that be forthcoming?

Twoofer: We are working on the video.

Intelligent person: Go ahead, but I want to see the unedited interview from start to finish.

Twoofer: No, the raw footage will not be released.

Intelligent person: I cannot see any reason why not if you truly want me to render an opinion. However, your intransience at releaseing it is noted, along with all that might imply.
So when will we be able to see even the edited version of this interview?

Twoofer: I told you we are working on it. Probably in a month it'll be ready.

Intelligent person: Then I will have nothing to render an opinion on until that time when it is released.

Twoofer: I told you what he said.

Intelligent person: That is irrellevent to me wanting to hear it first hand. If you are going to discuss it then you will have to let people see it. If the whole video is not ready yet AND you want to discuss this one interview then post an ftp link to just that interview and we can discuus it.

Twoofer: You are twisting things and attempting to derail the discussion.

Intelligent person: On the contrary, you wish to discuss something that you will not let anyone else see. Therefore there is actually nothing to discuss and therefore no discussion to derail. When you are prepared to offer something concrete to discuss then we will do so.

__________________________________________________ ________________

Lyte did this with Robert T's statement. In the run up to the release of Pentacon he stated that Robert T. had given them rock solid evidence that the plane had not hit the Pentagon.

Even now Lyte states that Robert's statement about the plane rising to clear the traffic signage is clearly indicative that the plane flew over the Pentagon. He still maintains that Robert said that the fireball obscured his view of the impact. He had said all of this before the release but it is quite obvious that Robert's statement about the plane rising at all has a serious flaw, he was running and moving up an embankement at the time the plane was supposedly rising.
Lyte completely misappropriates what Robert states in regards to the impact being obscured. Robert says that it was "still" obscured when it hit, all he saw was the fireball. Lyte completly fails to follow up on this and ask where he thought the plane had hit the building(Robert truly believes it did hit), on a lower floor or a higher floor, and he fails to clarify what was obscuring his view of the impact.


Many of us were asking Lyte for months when the Pentacon would be released s o we could clarify just what Lyte was talking about and when he FINNALLY did, it was laughable the way he had been twisting and paraphraseing what his interviewees had said.

[T.A.M.]

Four weeks and a day Lyte....still waiting.

TAM:)