The US goverment sank the Titanic

[SomeGuy]

:jaw-dropp

Unfastened coins:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=af07

I thought it was pretty funny

[parky76]

We also sank the Lousitania...and the Maine. America is incapable of suffering a tragic defeat without our own people being involved. We are invincible!!!!!!!!

[~enigma~]

We also sank the Lousitania...and the Maine. America is incapable of suffering a tragic defeat without our own people being involved. We are invincible!!!!!!!!
Don't forget the Monitor and the Merimac.

[Björn Toulouse]

Don't forget the Monitor and the Merimac.


And the SS Edmund Fitzgerald....

[MG1962]

Umm the Lusitania was set up by the British Government. But lets not forget the USS Maine :)

[~enigma~]

Umm the Lusitania was set up by the British Government. But lets not forget the USS Maine :)
Hey...get your facts out of here :)

ETA - Anything to add disinfo agent MG?

[MG1962]

Well the British did forget to tell the Captain of the Lusitania some important facts about sub activity in the area

And the Maine has always had a big cloud over its fate in Havana Harbour

Mind you, dont get me started on the sinking of the Yamato..... seriously, you tell me how an 80,000 ton ship gets sunk by itsy bitsy airplanes.

[HawksFan]

Well the British did forget to tell the Captain of the Lusitania some important facts about sub activity in the area

And the Maine has always had a big cloud over its fate in Havana Harbour

Mind you, dont get me started on the sinking of the Yamato..... seriously, you tell me how an 80,000 ton ship gets sunk by itsy bitsy airplanes.

Well, now they aren't 80,000 tons, but....

lets ask the Captains of:

U.S.S. Arizona
U.S.S. California
U.S.S. Oklahoma
U.S.S. Yorktown
U.S.S. Lexington
U.S.S. West Virginia
U.S.S. Tennessee
H.M.S Prince of Wales
H.M.S. Repulse
I.N.J Soryu
I.N.J Hiryu
I.N.J Kaga
I.N.J. Kaga
well, you get the point.

And no small honorable mention to Capt Lindemann of Bismarck who, while not technically sunk by itty bitty planes, was certainly brought to his demise in no small part by the heroic efforts of our British allies in the most ittiest bittiest planes to fight a major ship of war..er..of the war. :D

[twinstead]

And the SS Edmund Fitzgerald....

The big lake, it's said, never gives up its dead...

Yea. That's what THEY want you to believe.

[CptColumbo]

Well, now they aren't 80,000 tons, but....

lets ask the Captains of:

U.S.S. Arizona
U.S.S. California
U.S.S. Oklahoma
U.S.S. Yorktown
U.S.S. Lexington
U.S.S. West Virginia
U.S.S. Tennessee
H.M.S Prince of Wales
H.M.S. Repulse
I.N.J Soryu
I.N.J Hiryu
I.N.J Kaga
I.N.J. Kaga
well, you get the point.

And no small honorable mention to Capt Lindemann of Bismarck who, while not technically sunk by itty bitty planes, was certainly brought to his demise in no small part by the heroic efforts of our British allies in the most ittiest bittiest planes to fight a major ship of war..er..of the war. :D

Ask Billy Mitchell if it's possible, then ask him what happens if you try to prove it to anyone.

[CHF]

Mind you, dont get me started on the sinking of the Yamato..... seriously, you tell me how an 80,000 ton ship gets sunk by itsy bitsy airplanes.

I once put together a plastic model kit of the Yamato and a US VB-82 plane and used them to test the "sinking" theory.

Guess what....those US planes didn't even have real bombs! :eek:

[HawksFan]

Yeah, but in all fairness, Mitchell's targets weren't shooting back. :p

[MG1962]

And no small honorable mention to Capt Lindemann of Bismarck who, while not technically sunk by itty bitty planes, was certainly brought to his demise in no small part by the heroic efforts of our British allies in the most ittiest bittiest planes to fight a major ship of war..er..of the war. :biggrin:

Actually all jokes aside, I recall reading the account of one of the ack ack gunners on the Bismark. He was saying that the fact the planes flew so slow made them hard to hit. The sighting and firing systems were designed to take on much faster aircraft... so go figure

Oh and you left out Italian losses at Taranto :p

[ConspiRaider]

The big lake, it's said, never gives up its dead...

Yea. That's what THEY want you to believe.
The church bell chimed, 'til it rang 29 times

Can we really be sure of that number? What if somebody rang it one more time just for a goof?

How do we know the church bell wasn't made outta wood, no clapper, and the chimes were just dubbed in on a Foley later?

If a Catholic church bell is rung in the woods and the Pope isn't there to make poo-poo, does a bear make a sound?

[HawksFan]

Actually all jokes aside, I recall reading the account of one of the ack ack gunners on the Bismark. He was saying that the fact the planes flew so slow made them hard to hit. The sighting and firing systems were designed to take on much faster aircraft... so go figure

Oh and you left out Italian losses at Taranto :p


Yes, yes, I did forget about Taranto. Which, ironically, convinced the Japanese that the attack on Pearl Harbor could work. :o

I've read the same account about the AA on Bismarck as well. They had a heck of a time with those old planes. I actually have mixed feelings about it because the Bismarck was an absolutely remarkable ship. Kind of one of those 'yeah, she has to go but, dang, what a shame' type of things.

On that note, I just realized we've forgotten about the Tirpitz as well...

[Corsair 115]

I've read the same account about the AA on Bismarck as well. They had a heck of a time with those old planes.I don't think the speed of the aircraft would have mattered all that much, if the U.S. experience in the Pacific theatre is any guide. The USN learned fairly quickly that it takes A LOT of anti-aircraft guns to have a decent chance of shooting down sufficient numbers of the attackers. Not only that, but they have to be the right kind of AA guns.

[~enigma~]

Yes, yes, I did forget about Taranto. Which, ironically, convinced the Japanese that the attack on Pearl Harbor could work. :o

I've read the same account about the AA on Bismarck as well. They had a heck of a time with those old planes. I actually have mixed feelings about it because the Bismarck was an absolutely remarkable ship. Kind of one of those 'yeah, she has to go but, dang, what a shame' type of things.

On that note, I just realized we've forgotten about the Tirpitz as well...
Taranto? Isn't that how Fran Drescher says Toronto?

[lauraPSLI]

Just a quick comment about the Lusitania. The radio transmissions and the order to sink the shape came from Germans on Long Island New York. I live near where the transmission was made in a place called Telefunken.

[uk_dave]

Just a quick comment about the Lusitania. The radio transmissions and the order to sink the shape came from Germans on Long Island New York. I live near where the transmission was made in a place called Telefunken.

Is that near Vorsprung Durch Technik?

[~enigma~]

Just a quick comment about the Lusitania. The radio transmissions and the order to sink the shape came from Germans on Long Island New York. I live near where the transmission was made in a place called Telefunken.
Telefunken..that's West Sayville....southern Islip in Suffolk county. That's near fire island...OMG...the Lusitania was sunk by gay Germans :D

[lauraPSLI]

Enigma....very funny LOL. Yes it is in West Sayville. I'm surprised to find someone else that knows of it. It;s not the most common piece of history. Nothing much left but some foundations. A group here was trying to preserve the last building as a radio history museum but failed. Just thought it would be interesting to mention.

[~enigma~]

Enigma....very funny LOL. Yes it is in West Sayville. I'm surprised to find someone else that knows of it. It;s not the most common piece of history. Nothing much left but some foundations. A group here was trying to preserve the last building as a radio history museum but failed. Just thought it would be interesting to mention.
Used to live in Bayside but now I am in the great state of confusion...I mean Texas :)

[Foolmewunz]

Just a quick comment about the Lusitania. The radio transmissions and the order to sink the shape came from Germans on Long Island New York. I live near where the transmission was made in a place called Telefunken.

This is locally romanticized history, I'm afraid. Telefunken was a radio station, for sure. But there was no one giving orders from there, and the highest ranking Germans in North America were in the embassy, and not likely to be sending attack orders. (The Zimmermann Note, OTOH, likely did leave from Telefunken, but the Lusitania is so much more dramatic a story that people cling to it.)

Actually, it was probably merely the word that she'd sailed and whatever coordinates they had. The "sink on sight" order had been issued earlier in Germany, so at most, Telefunken was likely relaying potential targets.

There's also no evidence that U20 was ordered after the Lusitania, itself; merely to sink anything they could that came into the zone. The captain of the U20 was noted for attacking anything that got into his scopes, and had fired on and sunk (with no loss of life) a couple of smaller liners in the days before he encountered the Lusitania. (He'd fired on and missed a hospital ship in the beginning of 1915.)

The U20 was actually heading home to refuel in Emden when their and the Lusitania's paths crossed. Doesn't sound much like orders from the admiralty.

[MG1962]

don't think the speed of the aircraft would have mattered all that much, if the U.S. experience in the Pacific theatre is any guide. The USN learned fairly quickly that it takes A LOT of anti-aircraft guns to have a decent chance of shooting down sufficient numbers of the attackers. Not only that, but they have to be the right kind of AA guns

Actually the speed would make a huge difference. Lack of speed increases manouvering. So the planes could bob and side slip very sharply. It has to be remembered that the Bismarks gunnery crew were pretty green, and shake down trials would have been against more contempory aircraft.

If memory serves, when the Swordfish attack went in, the crews had been at battle stations for 72 hours straight. Effectively eating and sleeping at their gun positions. So fatigue would also play a large role in their effectiveness

[The Silver Shadow]

The Britannic was sunk by the US. I mean, all of it has inside job written all over it. The unexplained explosion as it was sailing, the propellors running and the captain trying to beach the ship. This sinking was an inside job by the US to blame Germany in WWI and lead them to Versailles and have them accept full responsibility...

[ConspiRaider]

Taranto? Isn't that how Fran Drescher says Toronto?
Taranto? I've been to that place, compliments of the U.S. Navy and ports of call.

It was the bleakest port visit I can remember. The ship was abuzz with gossip: "Why are we visiting Taranto? What the hell is in Taranto? Whoever heard of Taranto? Where are the bars? Where are the girls? Let's liven things up in this joint and call out an air strike on Taranto!"

On the other hand, Pompeii was perhaps the most astounding place I have ever visited, so, you take the bitter with the better...

[Alt+F4]

Used to live in Bayside

You were able to drag yourself away from Bell Blvd.!

[Corsair 115]

Actually the speed would make a huge difference. Lack of speed increases manouvering. So the planes could bob and side slip very sharply.But all torpedo bombers had to attack low and slow; the difference in speed between a Swordfish on a torpedo attack and a Devastator or Avenger or Kate are fairly small, which is what I was referring to by speed not making all that much difference. Dive bombers had the advantage of diving onto the target, but even then, they couldn't maneuver around all that much lest they end up off-target.

It still takes A LOT of anti-aircraft guns to successfully beat off an aerial attack. Just how many was considerably underestimated before the war. Hitting a moving aircraft from a moving ship was a difficult task. The simplest solution was to fit more AA guns. Put more flak into the air, and the chances of some of it hitting the target go up.