Marijuana

[Cuddles]

Following on from the discussion about whether marijuana is harmful or not, I thought I'd start a poll to see what people's opinions on it are. Possibly this is the wrong board, but I put it here because the original thread about it is here and I don't want this thread derailed with exactly the same discussion. This thread is soley for people's opinions on it's legal status, not on the politics or science behind those opinions.

[Abooga]

About heroin instead of marijuana but, did anyone see this memorable documentary? I strongly recommend it

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/322/7301/1551

[Katana]

I think that it's absurd that marijuana is illegal in the USA (or anywhere).

I highly suspect that much more harm is done to this country's citizens by alcohol and tobacco, yet they're legal. We waste too much money policing something that is no more harmful than these legal drugs.

In discussions about marijuana, I often come back to this memory from high school when I attended a rock concert. I'm pretty sure that it was R.E.M (not a fan, but my friends were - doesn't matter). You could pretty much split the lawn seats down the middle. One half was getting drunk while one half was getting stoned. As the concert went on, the drunk folks started to fight, threw things, created all sorts of mayhem. The other side was so peaceful and just sat there enjoying the music.

It was a very powerful moment. My friends and I had such a great view of this phenomenon as it progressed. The implications were lost on no one. I remember the discussions as we all wondered why the hell was alcohol the legal one.

There is no sensible explanation for making marijuana illegal, in my opinion.

[Georg]

I think that it's absurd that marijuana is illegal in the USA (or anywhere).

snip

There is no sensible explanation for making marijuana illegal, in my opinion.

I agree.

[brodski]

About heroin instead of marijuana but, did anyone see this memorable documentary? I strongly recommend it

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/322/7301/1551

Really? Because after reading that review it would be hard for me to be more disinclined to watch that documentary.
What the hell ahs the Somme got to do with modern drugs policy? How exactly is it useful to compare government sponsored drugs education with Nazi propaganda? The whole thing seems to be one long appeal to emotion, with a liberal helping of Goodwin’s law thrown in.
Now I am in favour of more liberal drugs policies, but by the sounds of it, watching that film may make me revaluate that position. ;)

[Darat]

As admin: I've moved it here as this is really where such a question be - after all it's a social issue. (The thread that inspired this thread is I think this one: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=57392)

As a Member: Lets try and respect the thread starters wishes i.e. "This thread is soley for people's opinions on it's legal status, not on the politics or science behind those opinions." (Bold by me.)

[Darat]

I would say make it available but regulated.

[Cuddles]

For those interested in the science, the thread that inspired this poll is here (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=57392).

[Katana]

{snip}

As a Member: Lets try and respect the thread starters wishes i.e. "This thread is soley for people's opinions on it's legal status, not on the politics or science behind those opinions." (Bold by me.)


I struggled with that, though, because it is largely the science that influences my opinion on the legal status of marijuana. Also, how does one separate the politics out of any opinon on its legal status? It seems that its legal status really is only about politics (in my humble opinon, of course ;)).

[slingblade]

I don't see how I can give much of an answer if I'm supposed to leave out the reasons behind my opinion, and simply present the opinion alone.

So. Legal.

But this pisses me off. (http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/04/25/marijuana.strength.reut/) Why, I can't say.

[Ivor the Engineer]

Perhaps a more revealing question for those who favour the idea of marijuana being available to adults to buy is what drugs should not be? E.g. should you be able to go into a pharmacist and buy any drug (either recreational or medicinal) that you desire?

I tend to lean towards the legalising route until I think about the possible consequences of that choice affecting me or those I care about:rolleyes: So I'm going for medicinal use.

[Georg]

I tend to lean towards the legalising route until I think about the possible consequences of that choice affecting me or those I care about:rolleyes: So I'm going for medicinal use.

So let´s start the prohibition thing again with alcohol?
That wasn´t the big success story as far as I know. But why avoid a mistake when you can repeat it...........

[webfusion]

Hello, we've already had this exact same question in a similar poll, with 10 pages, and close to 400 replies -- but since it's always a popular subject, and it's been a few months since the last thread ended, let's do it again!
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=73620

[Georg]

That´s what I already told the O.P. in the thread that darat mentioned in post 6.
Would it make sense to merge them?

[brodski]

But this pisses me off. (http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/04/25/marijuana.strength.reut/) Why, I can't say.
This article could either make you more, or less pissed off.
http://www.badscience.net/?p=389

I can't explain why ;)

ETA- due to a sloppy redesign of the site, you have to scroll down (quite a way) to read the article.

[HarryKeogh]

I would say make it available but regulated.

I think it should be regulated the way alcohol is but with some changes to take the second-hand smoke into effect. Don't think it would be too wise or polite to have kids or non-willing adults breathing in pot smoke. I also think people should be allowed to grow their own.

[brodski]

I think it should be regulated the way alcohol is but with some changes to take the second-hand smoke into effect. Don't think it would be too wise or polite to have kids or non-willing adults breathing in pot smoke. I also think people should be allowed to grow their own.

Are people allowed to grow their own tobacco in the USA? (This is a genuine inquiry rather than a rhetorical question)

[slingblade]

This article could either make you more, or less pissed off.
http://www.badscience.net/?p=389

I can't explain why ;)


Nah, about the same.

ICEW. ;)

[Overman]

I can see how it is illegal on its own merits, but when you compare it with alcohal...One of the most potent and dangerous drugs of all time, and its rampid abuse in the US...it just seems like a joke to have pot illegal...

[slingblade]

Are people allowed to grow their own tobacco in the USA? (This is a genuine inquiry rather than a rhetorical question)

That depends on what you mean, but if we assume you mean for personal consumption, yes.

http://www.boldweb.com/greenweb/tobacco.htm

[brodski]

That depends on what you mean, but if we assume you mean for personal consumption, yes.

http://www.boldweb.com/greenweb/tobacco.htm

Yes I did mean for personal use, thanks.

I do like the way in that link they try and indicate that their tobacco grown from seeds is somehow the “healthy” choice, because its free of artificial additives.
Yeah, because natural carcinogens are always to be preferred ;)

I find that highly amusing, I’m not sure if I can explain why. ;)

[Mashuna]

Yes I did mean for personal use, thanks.

I do like the way in that link they try and indicate that their tobacco grown from seeds is somehow the “healthy” choice, because its free of artificial additives.
Yeah, because natural carcinogens are always to be preferred ;)

I find that highly amusing, I’m not sure if I can explain why. ;)

Everyone knows that natural is always better.

It's probably organic, too.

[Mephisto]

I don't see how I can give much of an answer if I'm supposed to leave out the reasons behind my opinion, and simply present the opinion alone.

So. Legal.

But this pisses me off. (http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/04/25/marijuana.strength.reut/) Why, I can't say.

What pissed me off most about this article is:

Volkow's institute has been studying the effects of cannabis, whose active ingredients are very similar to important brain chemicals called endogenous cannabinoids.

"It clearly is addictive," she said.


It's NOT clearly addictive and that argument has always been made about marijuana no matter what the strength. It's also NOT a pathway to other drugs; that has ALSO been an argument against legalizing pot.

And what is the problem in using botany and modern science to improve an organic product? It's still just a plant, and making a friggin plant illegal makes about as much sense as making a star or a rock illegal!

[brodski]

It's NOT clearly addictive and that argument has always been made about marijuana no matter what the strength.
Define "addictive"? It quite clearly is habbit forming, but then are many other legal substanecs.

[Mephisto]

Define "addictive"? It quite clearly is habbit forming, but then are many other legal substanecs.

Yes, but it doesn't cause physical withdrawal symptoms like cigarettes or heroin. Hell, chocolate is habit forming, but it's not regulated by the government OR smuggled for great profits.

[ponderingturtle]

I think that it's absurd that marijuana is illegal in the USA (or anywhere).

I highly suspect that much more harm is done to this country's citizens by alcohol and tobacco, yet they're legal. We waste too much money policing something that is no more harmful than these legal drugs.

In discussions about marijuana, I often come back to this memory from high school when I attended a rock concert. I'm pretty sure that it was R.E.M (not a fan, but my friends were - doesn't matter). You could pretty much split the lawn seats down the middle. One half was getting drunk while one half was getting stoned. As the concert went on, the drunk folks started to fight, threw things, created all sorts of mayhem. The other side was so peaceful and just sat there enjoying the music.

It was a very powerful moment. My friends and I had such a great view of this phenomenon as it progressed. The implications were lost on no one. I remember the discussions as we all wondered why the hell was alcohol the legal one.

There is no sensible explanation for making marijuana illegal, in my opinion.

Of course there it, it will undercut nylon rope, they will make paper from it, and what are you going to charge mexicans with as a crime? Simply being mexican doesn't work.

[Cuddles]

That´s what I already told the O.P. in the thread that darat mentioned in post 6.
Would it make sense to merge them?

No. I want to be special.

In any case, this poll has more options than simply yes/no, which I think makes more sense given that there are several different ways of making marijuana legal to different degrees or in different situations, and that's just the ways that have been proposed as serious laws and not just speculation.

Edit : At least, it would make more sense if everyone wasn't just voting "yes" anyway.;)

[Jorghnassen]

I remember the discussions as we all wondered why the hell was alcohol the legal one.

That's why. (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=78947)

[Iamme]

I think that it's absurd that marijuana is illegal in the USA (or anywhere).

I highly suspect that much more harm is done to this country's citizens by alcohol and tobacco, yet they're legal. We waste too much money policing something that is no more harmful than these legal drugs.

In discussions about marijuana, I often come back to this memory from high school when I attended a rock concert. I'm pretty sure that it was R.E.M (not a fan, but my friends were - doesn't matter). You could pretty much split the lawn seats down the middle. One half was getting drunk while one half was getting stoned. As the concert went on, the drunk folks started to fight, threw things, created all sorts of mayhem. The other side was so peaceful and just sat there enjoying the music.

It was a very powerful moment. My friends and I had such a great view of this phenomenon as it progressed. The implications were lost on no one. I remember the discussions as we all wondered why the hell was alcohol the legal one.

There is no sensible explanation for making marijuana illegal, in my opinion.

There is a flaw in the ointment here somewhere. I am trying to find it. Oh, THERE it is......

Just because one bad thing is legal shoud not mean that something that is LESS bad then should be legal.

Too bad the halucinogenic gods that implemented mind-altering substances did not think to either criminalize both or legalize both at the same time. But they didn't. Now we are stuck in this quandry, eh?

We can't hardly play Indian giver at this stage and criminalize liquor. So...does that now mean that in the game of fair is fair...that we also include marijuana?

No.

Do you want to be not only dodging drunk drivers but dodging stupified drivers also????? And drivers who one driving hand down in the potato chip bag constantly?

Edit: I thought I abandoned this post. Oh well. I reconsidered. I got thinking about the policing, courts, etc. My big issue would be with under the influence drivers or adolesents still in school. We can not allow either of these two groups to partake.

[Alt+F4]

There is no sensible explanation for making marijuana illegal, in my opinion.

I agree, but I also think that the legalization of marijuana in the U.S. will NEVER happen in the foreseeable future. And the question begs...why?

If the majority of Americans feel it should be legalized why don't politicians take up the issue?

[The Great Hairy One]

I think legalisation is pretty much accepted here in Australia, it's just going to take some time for this to happen. At the moment, several states (South Australia and Western Australia) have decriminalised the possession of small amounts of marijuana (up to 30g or so), and the other states apply "police discretion" which, according to a cop friend of mine, means that the police let you go unless you have a huge amount of the stuff.

Check here:
http://www.drugpolicy.org/global/drugpolicyby/australianew/

Cheers,
TGHO

[Iamme]

I agree, but I also think that the legalization of marijuana in the U.S. will NEVER happen in the foreseeable future. And the question begs...why?

If the majority of Americans feel it should be legalized why don't politicians take up the issue?

If the majority of Americans think we should have nativity scenes in public grounds, then why can't we?..if your logic prevails?

[Tony]

If the majority of Americans think we should have nativity scenes in public grounds, then why can't we?..if your logic prevails?

False analogy. There is nothing in the constitution regulating marijuana but there is something in the constitution regulated the government's involvment with religion.

[Piggy]

I say decriminalize for adults.

I see it as a matter of jurisdiction, and the fundamental relationship between citizen and government in a free democratic society.

If I want to quit my job, sit at home, eat nothing but Sugar Pops and Pringles, and carve the alphabet on my thorax with a rusty pen knife, it's none of the government's concern.

No one would argue that I should be thrown in jail for that because it damages my health, or I might encourage minors to do it, or I might drive while bleary from pain and malnutrition and blood loss, or I'm not being productive enough, or I might contribute to high health care costs (the kind of arguments that are regularly trotted out regarding marijuana).

Ditto if I want to grow a plant and smoke it, whether it be marijuana, tobacco, or poison ivy.

I have yet to hear a single justification for throwing adults in jail for smoking pot that holds any water.

[Georg]

........ and what are you going to charge mexicans with as a crime? Simply being mexican doesn't work.

That´s not difficult. Just tell everybody they have WMDs. That worked before.

[Katana]

There is a flaw in the ointment here somewhere. I am trying to find it. Oh, THERE it is......

Just because one bad thing is legal shoud not mean that something that is LESS bad then should be legal.

Too bad the halucinogenic gods that implemented mind-altering substances did not think to either criminalize both or legalize both at the same time. But they didn't. Now we are stuck in this quandry, eh?

We can't hardly play Indian giver at this stage and criminalize liquor. So...does that now mean that in the game of fair is fair...that we also include marijuana?

No.

Do you want to be not only dodging drunk drivers but dodging stupified drivers also????? And drivers who one driving hand down in the potato chip bag constantly?

Edit: I thought I abandoned this post. Oh well. I reconsidered. I got thinking about the policing, courts, etc. My big issue would be with under the influence drivers or adolesents still in school. We can not allow either of these two groups to partake.


Actually, that's now what I was trying so say. I don't think that any of them should be illegal, but our government seems to feel that marijuana is more harmful and has outlawed its use while allowing alcohol and tobacco. It is this distinction that I do not understand.

As for driving while under the influence of anything, of course, I don't support that. Just because some is legal doesn't give anyone permission to use/consume it in a way that puts others in danger. That's why drinking alcohol is legal while driving drunk is not.

[Mephisto]

As for driving while under the influence of anything, of course, I don't support that. Just because some is legal doesn't give anyone permission to use/consume it in a way that puts others in danger. That's why drinking alcohol is legal while driving drunk is not.

. . . speaking of ER physicians . . . I listened in on a conversation between two police officers in the 70s (I was working in the local hospital ER at the time) and the elder officer was stating that he'd rather be on the street with 100 "potheads" than a single drunk. The young recruit was asserting that since marijuana was illegal and alcohol wasn't there HAD to be a reason and the reason was that it was likely more dangerous to the public.

The older officer said that marijuana users (in his experience) drove more carefully (perhaps BECAUSE it was illegal) and were less likely to take chances behind the wheel, whereas someone who was drunk was "sure" they could take that turn at 50 MPH, or beat that red light. Coincidentaly, they were there (in the ER) because of a motor vehicle accident involving a drunk driver.

[ThinBlueLine]

Decriminalizing marijuana is a great first step in eventually ending the ravenous war on drugs. For legalization/decriminalization purposes, marijuana is a gateway drug.

[Mephisto]

Decriminalizing marijuana is a great first step in eventually ending the ravenous war on drugs. For legalization/decriminalization purposes, Marijuana is a Gateway drug.

So, if I use it do I get a free computer? ;)

[Katana]

. . . speaking of ER physicians . . . I listened in on a conversation between two police officers in the 70s (I was working in the local hospital ER at the time) and the elder officer was stating that he'd rather be on the street with 100 "potheads" than a single drunk. The young recruit was asserting that since marijuana was illegal and alcohol wasn't there HAD to be a reason and the reason was that it was likely more dangerous to the public.


Where therein lies the rub - that's what I think that the propaganda machine would like everyone to think. Why that is is beyond me.


Decriminalizing marijuana is a great first step in eventually ending the ravenous war on drugs. For legalization/decriminalization purposes, Marijuana is a Gateway drug.

:D

Could be, TBL.

[ThinBlueLine]

So, if I use it do I get a free computer? ;)

You busting me out for capitalizing gateway? :) Same for marijuana. I was just looking at it wondering why I did that and you got me. Think I was in T-shirt slogan mode.

[ThinBlueLine]

Where therein lies the rub - that's what I think that the propaganda machine would like everyone to think. Why that is is beyond me.




:D

Could be, TBL.
Howdy, Katana! It's beyond me, too! ;)

If someone did a study comparing occurrences of serious crimes (violent, robberies, batteries, criminal sexual assaults, etc.) versus officers down on weed arrests at those specific times, the public might be swayed.

[andyandy]

my opinion is that all "soft" drugs should be legalised and "hard" drugs decriminalised.....contingent on it being a part of a wider European agenda that is....

utilitarianism is a bit of a dirty word in politics - but purely on a societal cost/benefit analysis this would seem to offer the best outcome -

drugs can be much more readily controlled in terms of quality


Tax revenues can be reinvested wholly into health, addiction support, drugs awareness

There is a much greater potential support network for addicts

Drug money is taken out of the hands of criminal gangs

Strict controls could still be employed on which licensed premises could sell drugs, what they could sell etc. and stringent enforcement would still be possible for those dealing outside the regulations.



There would, i think be undoubtably be some negative impacts on society - but overall i think it would provide a net beneft....


it's not going to happen though....:)