New video of second plane.

[Redtail]

I ran across this on another forum. Itclaims to be "Never before seen footage" from a guy who put his cam on a stand and walked off only to catch the second plane. I don't know why but something seems odd about it. I'm not saying it's fake just something is odd.

Sorry if it's been posted, I didn't find it on a search.

http://www.filecabi.net/video/unseenwtc2007.html

[Slayhamlet]

I ran across this on another forum. Itclaims to be "Never before seen footage" from a guy who put his cam on a stand and walked off only to catch the second plane. I don't know why but something seems odd about it. I'm not saying it's fake just something is odd.

Sorry if it's been posted, I didn't find it on a search.

http://www.filecabi.net/video/unseenwtc2007.html

Wow, that's pretty intense. :eye-poppi

[uk_dave]

That video has been knocking around for a while.

As far as I know it's genuine.

Certainly does give a good indication of the power of the impact.

[MRC_Hans]

Well, it is obviously recorded by a camara on a stand. Not a shake. It seems quite legit to me. Now the NoPlaners have yet another recording to explain away.

What is it you find strange about it?

Hans

[SezMe]

What I find strange about it is the sound track. Was it recorded simultaneously with the video or was it added later?

[The_Fire]

Looks genuine to me as well.....

ETA: Goes back to listen to soundtrack....

ETA: There is a slight de-syncronisation between picture and sound (observed from the visual impact/ impact sound itself), but that in itself does not mean a doctored soundtrack. It could happen due to a number of reasons: Distance, bad editing software or server ****-up. From the process of elimination, I would say the two first due to the fact that there are no silence in the start of the clip, which would be normal if the de-syncing were due to server problems.
The sound sounds like a standard camera mounted mic (which isn't all that great for high quality distance sound recording). Given the de-syncing, there's a real possibility that the actual explosion sound is delayed enough not to have made it onto the digitised version.
It does SOUND about right though.......

The only real way of knowing is getting my grubby hands on the original.

[Mangoose]

It's been around ever since In Memoriam.

[gumboot]

Looks and sounds right to me...

The delay in the sound would be due to distance, I would think.

I hadn't seen this footage before, and I agree it's a good demonstration of the massive power exerted in the impact.

One thing I found especially interesting was the large volume of dust and debris that was expelled out of the impact hole in the OPPOSITE direction of impact.

This is precisely the sort of phenomena we see in high speed video of bullets hitting objects.

-Gumboot

[The_Fire]

This is precisely the sort of phenomena we see in high speed video of bullets hitting objects.

-Gumboot
For more references on bullets impacting various containers etc:
See this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_l7sSpER5eM). ;).

I was impressed by the Eg-Splosion.......

ETA: And now that I've gotten started:
Extreme golfing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-goZT_w6GCo&mode=related&search=)

[MRC_Hans]

Ehr, of course the sound is dealyed. What is the distance? The building was appr. 400 meters tall, the plane hit some 250 meters up, and this recording is shot at something like 45 degrees angle up. So a ballpark figure (no need to do calculations on rough estimates) would be that the camara is about 400 meters from the impact point. So that is a little over one second of delay to be expected.

And yes, when you see newsreels of explosions from 911, Bagdad, or wherever, they have synchronized the sound to the pictures to eliminate the delay due to distance. I have no idea why they do that :nope:.

Hans

[gumboot]

Ehr, of course the sound is dealyed. What is the distance? The building was appr. 400 meters tall, the plane hit some 250 meters up, and this recording is shot at something like 45 degrees angle up. So a ballpark figure (no need to do calculations on rough estimates) would be that the camara is about 400 meters from the impact point. So that is a little over one second of delay to be expected.

And yes, when you see newsreels of explosions from 911, Bagdad, or wherever, they have synchronized the sound to the pictures to eliminate the delay due to distance. I have no idea why they do that :nope:.

Hans



Really? How lame is that. I've only ever seen de-synched explosion video.

-Gumboot

[The_Fire]

And yes, when you see newsreels of explosions from 911, Bagdad, or wherever, they have synchronized the sound to the pictures to eliminate the delay due to distance. I have no idea why they do that :nope:.

Hans

Aesthetics.

[MRC_Hans]

OK; listened again. It actually seems there is a silence where the explosion should be. It could be due to the automatic gain control of the mic amplifier; it simply overloads from the sudden boom and overcompensates.

Those camara amplifiers are not terribly sophisitated, and it is actually quite difficult to handle such sound strenght differences. Even our ears don't do it very well.

Hans

[MRC_Hans]

Aesthetics.Seems a strange word to use in that context, but I suppose you're right.

I am not sure what they did with the 911 reels, after all, the booms are not that distinct, but later, we have seen a lot of shots of Middle East blasts, and I noticed the sound was made to coincide with the visuals, even though the video was clearly taken from a considerable distance.

Hans

[The_Fire]

Could also be the mic itself overloading. If the capsule membrane is flattened completely due to airwavepressure, it could create a temporary silence untill the pressure is gone......Question is if it happened fast enough to prevent the "boom" sound it would create just before being flattened (I'm thinking wind-boom kind of a thing here).....

ETA: In regards to post 13

[SezMe]

I wasn't referring to the sound of the impact but rather to the sound before the impact. I've gone back and listened again and can discern sirens in there but there is much more general background noise than I would expect. There was not much of a wind that day so I was surprised by it. But then, I have no real basis for my expectations so I suppose I have no basis to be surprised. Maybe it was, in fact a really crappy mic.

[calebprime]

What I find strange about it is the sound track. Was it recorded simultaneously with the video or was it added later?

Ehr, of course the sound is dealyed. What is the distance? The building was appr. 400 meters tall, the plane hit some 250 meters up, and this recording is shot at something like 45 degrees angle up. So a ballpark figure (no need to do calculations on rough estimates) would be that the camara is about 400 meters from the impact point. So that is a little over one second of delay to be expected.

And yes, when you see newsreels of explosions from 911, Bagdad, or wherever, they have synchronized the sound to the pictures to eliminate the delay due to distance. I have no idea why they do that :nope:.

Hans

Aesthetics.


yeah, they do that in every documentary I've ever heard about or worked on. Otherwise, the sound would seem delayed.



What I'm hearing is a huge amount of processing that makes any attempt at getting anything out of the soundtrack impossible--it's either bad mp3 encoding, or some kind of multi-band active filtering. Frequencies are "gated"--if they don't exceed a certain level they are chopped out, which is why the sound is sort of watery or pixellated, or like its coming over a cell-phone. Used to reduce bandwith and reduce noise.

Probably someone here knows the tech better than I'm explaining it.

:( All too real!

[gumboot]

The sound is very heavily compressed, which is typical for streaming videos of this nature.

The atmos at the beginning seems perfectly fine to me. It seems to be entirely dominated by many sirens, with distant low-frequency traffic below that. There doesn't appear to be any wind noise or any other sounds of note.

-Gumboot

[Furcifer]

I've seen this video before as well. My first thought was "I wish this guy has another hour of tape" Too bad, it was a really good angle for what was to ensue. It may have helped answer many questions.

[The Great Hairy One]

Holy nostrils. I've not seen that video before. Wow. That impact - wow. Debris slams into the building on the far right, the black glass one, the explosion is just huge. Wow. Mind shattering.

Cheers,
TGHO

[Redtail]

What I find strange about it is the sound track. Was it recorded simultaneously with the video or was it added later?

Maybe that's what seems odd to me about it. At any rate it is a powerful view of the events.

[Mangoose]

There is a high quality verison in the In Memoriam video (sans the plane, as the scene is intercut with another view of the approaching plane), with superior sound that also includes the brief time delay between the explosion and the sound (however, they do mix in the sound of someone yelling that a plane "went into the other one"). The same footage also appears in an A&E Investigative Reports documentary from 2002, and there they substitute the actual sound of the explosion with the sound of a more Hollywood fuel-based explosion, and the sound is synched with the crash. There have thus been at least two sources of this footage in the media since 2002.

[T.A.M.]

And the count down to a post from ACE Baker (TS1234) in 5...4...3...2...

TAM:)

[Corsair 115]

Debris slams into the building on the far right, the black glass one, the explosion is just huge.The debris doesn't hit that building, it goes behind it, at least that's how it looks to me. The degree to which that building reflected the light of the explosion is quite striking, I wouldn't have expected that.

[MRC_Hans]

ANd that reflection shows that the building in question is much closer to the camara (and thus not hit by debris). I'm sure the building can easily be identified.

Hans

[Foolmewunz]

I'll have to look at it later - I'm pretty sure I know the video... but it's blocked at work.


Check out the reason. You guys posting links to Fredericks of Hollywood?

Forbidden!

You have requested access to a website or content currently restricted.

CATEGORY:Swimwear, Lingerie, and Nudity

[MRC_Hans]

ANd that reflection shows that the building in question is much closer to the camara (and thus not hit by debris). I'm sure the building can easily be identified.

Hans

Yes, quite easily. On the Google Earth shot below I have drawn the approximate camara angle. Presumably the video was taken from the building at the apex. The comparatively low building is in the center, and the tall, narrow building with the reflection is the strange penthouse tower at the upper part of the range (you can get an idea of the building's profile from the shadow).

Hans

[MRC_Hans]

Looking again at the picture, I see that it is not a penthouse, it is a separate building.

Hans

[gumboot]

The building with the reflection is the Millennium Hilton Hotel.

:)

-Gumboot

[Kryptos]

I'll have to look at it later - I'm pretty sure I know the video... but it's blocked at work.

The site is blocked at work for me, as well. I tried the link and sorry I clicked on it, out of concern people here think I'm looking for such sinister material. In the future, please warn us about such links.

Anyway, due to these problems, I have posted a copy of the video on my site:

http://www.debunk911myths.org/?p=29

Since the owner of the video is anonymous, I have no way of seeking their permission but think this is fair (fair use?) reason to make a copy available for JREFers.

The video is in .wmv (windows media player) format only, right now. Apologies for anyone that can't see it. Later tonight or tomorrow morning, I'll provide alternative formats like quicktime.

[CptColumbo]

It makes the bank look more severe than I thought it was, but that is probably due to the low angle.

[Foolmewunz]

Looking again at the picture, I see that it is not a penthouse, it is a separate building.

Hans

That'd be on Broadway. The chunky white building that's blocking the bottom of the towers in the film is the Century 21 store/building. It's not very tall, so it's quite probable this was on street level or maybe a rooftop, because some of those buildings on the east side of Broadway are pretty low. I can't remember but I think the location looks like where there used to be a Roy Rogers outlet. (I worked and trod that neighborhood for 20 years.)

[Cl1mh4224rd]

I'll have to look at it later - I'm pretty sure I know the video... but it's blocked at work.


Check out the reason. You guys posting links to Fredericks of Hollywood?

The page, at the moment, for me, has some content/scripts/something from Adult FriendFinder, an adult... *ahem*... "hook-up" website, embedded somewhere in there. That's probably why it's blocked.

[PhantomWolf]

I got a heap of popups for diskcleaner and then it tried installing, but the second time it worked fine (yeah that is mad, but everyone else seemed to get it fine so I figured it was a fluke.)

[gumboot]

That'd be on Broadway. The chunky white building that's blocking the bottom of the towers in the film is the Century 21 store/building. It's not very tall, so it's quite probable this was on street level or maybe a rooftop, because some of those buildings on the east side of Broadway are pretty low. I can't remember but I think the location looks like where there used to be a Roy Rogers outlet. (I worked and trod that neighborhood for 20 years.)



Here's a 3D screen grab from Google Earth identifying the location of the camera... same building identified for location of camera as Hans provided earlier...

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_10153463ad5589f5e4.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=5536)

The partial building in the top left is 1 Liberty Plaza, the white one in the FG is 22 Cortlandt St, and the one in the right corner is the Millennium Hilton Hotel.

-Gumboot