The unbearable double standards of the Truthers

[Undesired Walrus]

Right, there is a thread on LCF informing each other that we called William Rodriguez a fraud and a punk..

http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8351&st=0

William Rodriguez saves 100's of lives, and then bribed by Bush Co. Millions of dallors to shut up about the bombed he witnessed, and he turns the millions down, and Jref's say hes a fraud and a punk..

Then they are a bunch of f***ing scumbag neo-con supporting a**holes.

***** them, Let them go down with the NWO.

Even if they are decieved and stupid, then so be it, Who cares if they are decieved, Let it be, And Stop f*cking going over there debating with them

***** them. Move on to people with an open mind. Not some scumbag nwo a**holes.

Now, what am I missing here? Because, according to those on LCF, literally everyone who investigated 9/11 on the day is a fraud and a liar.
People who went into the pentagon and witnessed rotting body parts and people still strapped into their flight seats,
Wally Miller who was on his hands and knees picking up body parts,
everyone who worked on United 93's crash,
Everyone who worked on Flight 175's crash,
The entire FDNY,
The port authority,
The FAA,

I mean, I haven't even begun here, the list in endless...

What am I missing here?

[The Doc]

"Move on to people with a more open mind".

What a pretty way to say "Move on to people who are uneducated and brainwashable!", or "Move on to people who will take in anything you say without question".

I can't access the forum (banned), so I'll take a guess and say the post was by Sleepy2k16 or LUCAS who posted that?

[Undesired Walrus]

yep. sleepy

[T.A.M.]

I don't believe anyone here actually called him either (A) a fraud or (B) a punk. I believe Ron called him a Phony...that was it.

So they are lying...what else is knew.

TAM:)

[The Doc]

yep. sleepy

Lol, I knew it was one of those two, and I don't even read their forum anymore! Poor predictable LC'ers will never change.

On topic with the OP though, you are correct. It's the same with the firemen who said WTC7 was structurally damaged to the point they thought it would collapse. Apparently these men are liars, or "mistaken".

I find it hard to see how they can dismiss trained firemen who professionally surveyed WTC7 and said it would collapse, as "mistaken". Then, in the same breath, William Rodriguez comes up, who is not a professional explosives engineer, but all of a sudden he is 100% without-a-doubt correct, he heard bombs, he can't be mistaken... ever, and anyone who says he may be mistaken, or questions his account is insulting a hero. End of story.

Ridiculous.

[CHF]

Yup, the same people who say that dozens of Pentagon witnesses are out to lunch, or that the FDNY was mistaken on WTC7 accuse JREFers of disrespecting 9/11 survivors because we take issue with a guy who changed his testimony from "rumble" to "explosion."

[slugmancs]

William Rodriguez saves 100's of lives, and then bribed by Bush Co. Millions of dallors to shut up about the bombed he witnessed, and he turns the millions down, and Jref's say hes a fraud and a punk..
This actually happened? Does Mr. Rodriguez even claim this?

[CHF]

Here's the part I find really weird.

A bomb went off in the sub levels and only Willy noticed it???

Do the twoofers have any idea how many people heard the 1993 bomb?

[The Doc]

That only just struck me...

Why is Rodriguez, out of all the people in the basements, the only one who is making these claims?

Does anyone have any idea how many people were located near Rodriguez at the time of impact?

[twinstead]

I'm sure the truthers can easily rationalize the double standard of calling us disrespectful while accusing hundreds of people of being in on mass murder: It's okay to say what they say because they're right.

Because if they weren't right, they would look like total fools. ;)

[Totovader]

Apparently I'm a coward and I didn't even know it.

This is why Mr. Rodriguez continues to default back to the conspiracists- to them he's a hero and a whistle blower- to some of "us", he's just a hero. To more and more of us, he acted heroically. And they use that to their advantage, because to them it's not even about what Rodriguez has to say- but the fact that he sticks with them even after he has expressed great concern that they manipulate him. All we can offer is truth, they parade him around the globe and give him speaking engagements.

He has repeatedly said that he's being manipulated by "both sides"- I think the opposite is true: I think he's manipulating both sides. He doesn't want to be seen as a conspiracist- so to us he's one person. For them, he wants to seem like he's the whistle blower- so he acts differently to them.

Then it just becomes one big ridiculous shouting fest of who's being nicer to the hero, and who would be "more like Rodriguez".

Really- it pains me to see this exchange- all the people that Rodriguez saved really get **** on by the people he chooses to align himself with.

[gumboot]

Does anyone have any idea how many people were located near Rodriguez at the time of impact?


Fifteen.

-Gumboot

[T.A.M.]

Apparently I'm a coward and I didn't even know it.

This is why Mr. Rodriguez continues to default back to the conspiracists- to them he's a hero and a whistle blower- to some of "us", he's just a hero. To more and more of us, he acted heroically. And they use that to their advantage, because to them it's not even about what Rodriguez has to say- but the fact that he sticks with them even after he has expressed great concern that they manipulate him. All we can offer is truth, they parade him around the globe and give him speaking engagements.

He has repeatedly said that he's being manipulated by "both sides"- I think the opposite is true: I think he's manipulating both sides. He doesn't want to be seen as a conspiracist- so to us he's one person. For them, he wants to seem like he's the whistle blower- so he acts differently to them.

Then it just becomes one big ridiculous shouting fest of who's being nicer to the hero, and who would be "more like Rodriguez".

Really- it pains me to see this exchange- all the people that Rodriguez saved really get **** on by the people he chooses to align himself with.


This is very well said and thought out. It describes the situation MOST accurately...IMO. The only thing I would add, is that if there is manipulation going on, on the part of Mr. Rodriguez, that it is not of a malicious nature.

TAM:)

[The Silver Shadow]

This is very well said and thought out. It describes the situation MOST accurately...IMO. The only thing I would add, is that if there is manipulation going on, on the part of Mr. Rodriguez, that it is not of a malicious nature.

TAM:)
I will have to agree with TAM here. He's probably just trying to satisfy both sides, the side that believes him to be a whistleblower/hero (And who also accomodate him), and the side that calls him simply a hero. The problem is, he just can't find a middle ground that satisfies all, and that's pushing the envelope...

[gumboot]

I agree with all of the above.

I speculate that maybe the problem for Mr Rodriguez is he's clearly not happy with the government's treatment of survivors and rescue workers from New York, particularly Latino immigrant workers.

I understand that completely. The way these people have been treated is in many cases utterly disgusting. A fraction of the money that was so readily doled out to Afghanistan and Iraq would have made such an enormous difference to these people's lives.

It seems to me, Rodriguez has fallen for the same trap that many CTers have - he has swallowed the CT garbage because it blames the government for 9/11, and he doesn't like the government.

What he needs to understand is you can dislike the government - heck you can hate the government - without blaming them for 9/11.

I've never seen anyone here "debunk" the claims of poor treatment of victims, or the claims of toxic air at GZ. Why? Because they're true.

I have seen them debunk virtually ever claim the CTers have ever come up with. Why? Because they're not true.

The simple fact is, we are capable of preventing our political feelings from determining truth from fiction. The Conspiracy Theorists are not. Sadly, Mr Rodriguez has shown he cannot either.

-Gumboot

[Cl1mh4224rd]

This actually happened? Does Mr. Rodriguez even claim this?

I think he turned down money from a survivor fund, or something. It certainly wasn't millions, and it certainly wasn't a bribe.

[~enigma~]

I don't believe anyone here actually called him either (A) a fraud or (B) a punk. I believe Ron called him a Phony...that was it.

So they are lying...what else is knew.

TAM:)
Parky said punk but he apologized for saying it.

[~enigma~]

That only just struck me...

Why is Rodriguez, out of all the people in the basements, the only one who is making these claims?

Does anyone have any idea how many people were located near Rodriguez at the time of impact?
I have heard the numbers 16 and 23 was the amount of people he ran from to see Felipe David burned.

[Thunder]

Yes, I did appologize. I think Willy is being manipulated by the truthers, and his actual beliefs about what happened on 9-11 may not be fully understood. He has clearly had his experiences twisted by the 9-11 deniars. I feel sorry for the guy.

[Totovader]

I think he turned down money from a survivor fund, or something. It certainly wasn't millions, and it certainly wasn't a bribe.

Correct- it was the victims fund, with the agreement that if you take the money you cannot then turn around and sue the government for more for the same thing.

Obviously, Mr. Rodriguez had other plans.

It's a plain old lie to claim it was millions, and it's a bigger lie to claim it was a bribe.

Then again- we are all familiar with "Truthers" and how much they lie.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Correct- it was the victims fund, with the agreement that if you take the money you cannot then turn around and sue the government for more for the same thing.

Ah, right. You know... I don't understand why the truthers would think the "can't sue the government" stipulation would be suspicious or even necessary.

I'm no lawyer, but I would expect that, if a person who received money from the victim fund turned around and decided to sue the government, that they'd simply be required to return the money they were given.

And if it was hush money from a cabal powerful enough to allegedly execute, and then cover-up their involvement in, 9/11... why would they even need that stipulation? They could just rig the courts in any number of ways to prevent any lawsuit from proceeding. I mean, all the engineers are in their pocket; why not appointed judges?

They really do see the world as a poorly written conspiracy movie/novel, where the details are completely glossed over, because they would drag the plot down... :rolleyes:

[gumboot]

And if it was hush money from a cabal powerful enough to allegedly execute, and then cover-up their involvement in, 9/11... why would they even need that stipulation? They could just rig the courts in any number of ways to prevent any lawsuit from proceeding. I mean, all the engineers are in their pocket; why not appointed judges?



Or alternatively, since they would need endless amounts of money, if someone sued them, why not just pay up?

-Gumboot