Conspiracists and gun nuts

[peteweaver]

I've seen conspiracists go on and on about how 9/11 was the work of the US Government. I want to make a point to them, whilst they go on and on about 9/11 a far greater tragedy goes unnoticed by them.

The biggest arms deallers in the world are nearly all in the west.
Small arms kill an average of one person every minute.
60 minutes in an hour = 60 people shot dead an hour.
60 x 24 hours = 1440 people shot dead each day.

1440 a day and they go on about the 'right' of citizens to bear arms.

How many dead from small arms in Darfur ?

How many dead from small arms in Chad ?

How many dead in Somalia because of small arms ?

How many are shot dead every day in Iraq by Iraqis ?


Isn't it time instead of banging on about 9/11 (which wasn't the inside job they believe it to be) that they instead bang on about the arms industry which is subsidised by the taxpayer.

Britain for instance is the worlds second biggest arms dealler, British arms companies who sell abroad have their deals under written by the Export Credit Guarantee Department.

The Labour Government in 1997 promised an ethical dimension to foreign policy, and within months had sold Hawk Jets to indonesia which were used against East Timorese civillians.

Why is it that these people miss the big picture, and instead go on a wild goose chase? Could it be because many of America's biggest conspiracy theorists happen to be proud gun owners?

What are your thoughts on this ?

[Thunder]

Hundreds of thousands of unneccessary gun deaths around the world, is the painful price we must pay for our God-given right to own a Glock.

Lets remember, Jesus was a gun owner.

[westprog]

I've seen conspiracists go on and on about how 9/11 was the work of the US Government. I want to make a point to them, whilst they go on and on about 9/11 a far greater tragedy goes unnoticed by them.

The biggest arms deallers in the world are nearly all in the west.
Small arms kill an average of one person every minute.
60 minutes in an hour = 60 people shot dead an hour.
60 x 24 hours = 1440 people shot dead each day.

1440 a day and they go on about the 'right' of citizens to bear arms.

How many dead from small arms in Darfur ?

How many dead from small arms in Chad ?

How many dead in Somalia because of small arms ?

How many are shot dead every day in Iraq by Iraqis ?


Isn't it time instead of banging on about 9/11 (which wasn't the inside job they believe it to be) that they instead bang on about the arms industry which is subsidised by the taxpayer.

Britain for instance is the worlds second biggest arms dealler, British arms companies who sell abroad have their deals under written by the Export Credit Guarantee Department.

The Labour Government in 1997 promised an ethical dimension to foreign policy, and within months had sold Hawk Jets to indonesia which were used against East Timorese civillians.

Why is it that these people miss the big picture, and instead go on a wild goose chase? Could it be because many of America's biggest conspiracy theorists happen to be proud gun owners?

What are your thoughts on this ?

Sadly, while the above might be broadly true, even if every arms company in the West were to shut down tomorrow, it wouldn't make a significant difference.

The arms industry has developed to where guns are cheap, reliable, and so easy to use that for the first time in history, it's possible to form armies of children. The Kalashnikov is now almost the perfect weapon. It can be made very easily. Landmines are also extremely easy.

In Rwanda, they didn't even need guns. They killed a million people using medium wave radio and machetes.

This is relevant to CT thinking because there isn't some cabal planning all this. It just happened, and there's no way to make it not happen. Fixing it will be complicated and take a long time, and nobody has an easy answer. Apart from impeaching Bush, of course.

[Totovader]

I fail to see the point, here- are you claiming there is a conspiracy of gun manufacturers and conspiracists should instead be focusing their efforts there- or are you just ranting about the number of gun deaths?

[fuelair]

I've seen conspiracists go on and on about how 9/11 was the work of the US Government. I want to make a point to them, whilst they go on and on about 9/11 a far greater tragedy goes unnoticed by them.

The biggest arms deallers in the world are nearly all in the west.
Small arms kill an average of one person every minute.
60 minutes in an hour = 60 people shot dead an hour.
60 x 24 hours = 1440 people shot dead each day.

1440 a day and they go on about the 'right' of citizens to bear arms.

How many dead from small arms in Darfur ?

How many dead from small arms in Chad ?

How many dead in Somalia because of small arms ?

How many are shot dead every day in Iraq by Iraqis ?


Isn't it time instead of banging on about 9/11 (which wasn't the inside job they believe it to be) that they instead bang on about the arms industry which is subsidised by the taxpayer.

Britain for instance is the worlds second biggest arms dealler, British arms companies who sell abroad have their deals under written by the Export Credit Guarantee Department.

The Labour Government in 1997 promised an ethical dimension to foreign policy, and within months had sold Hawk Jets to indonesia which were used against East Timorese civillians.

Why is it that these people miss the big picture, and instead go on a wild goose chase? Could it be because many of America's biggest conspiracy theorists happen to be proud gun owners?

What are your thoughts on this ?
I am a gun owner and I think the CTers are sad depressed little mamas' vermin (or rampant scam artists. And I really wish arms had never been given or sold to primitives.

[fuelair]

Hundreds of thousands of unneccessary gun deaths around the world, is the painful price we must pay for our God-given right to own a Glock.

Lets remember, Jesus was a gun owner.

A)prefer H&K compact 45s and S&W .460 to Glock.

B)of course he wasn't - he's a fictional character.

Next boring point (this is too easy so far!)!

[gumboot]

A)prefer H&K compact 45s and S&W .460 to Glock.

B)of course he wasn't - he's a fictional character.



How dare you suppress the constitutional right of fictional characters to own guns!

-Gumboot

[fuelair]

How dare you suppress the constitutional right of fictional characters to own guns!

-Gumboot
I support his right to - just noting it is a right he would have lots of trouble exercizing - given his imaginary existence!!

[Carnivore]

I've seen conspiracists go on and on about how 9/11 was the work of the US Government. I want to make a point to them, whilst they go on and on about 9/11 a far greater tragedy goes unnoticed by them.

The biggest arms deallers in the world are nearly all in the west.
Small arms kill an average of one person every minute.
60 minutes in an hour = 60 people shot dead an hour.
60 x 24 hours = 1440 people shot dead each day.

1440 a day and they go on about the 'right' of citizens to bear arms.

How many dead from small arms in Darfur ?

How many dead from small arms in Chad ?

How many dead in Somalia because of small arms ?

How many are shot dead every day in Iraq by Iraqis ?


Isn't it time instead of banging on about 9/11 (which wasn't the inside job they believe it to be) that they instead bang on about the arms industry which is subsidised by the taxpayer.

Britain for instance is the worlds second biggest arms dealler, British arms companies who sell abroad have their deals under written by the Export Credit Guarantee Department.

The Labour Government in 1997 promised an ethical dimension to foreign policy, and within months had sold Hawk Jets to indonesia which were used against East Timorese civillians.

Why is it that these people miss the big picture, and instead go on a wild goose chase? Could it be because many of America's biggest conspiracy theorists happen to be proud gun owners?

What are your thoughts on this ?


As long as we're speculating:

How many Jews would have been murdered in Nazi concentration camps if every Jewish household in Europe had owned a Galil assault rifle in the 1930s?

How many massacres have the evil military rifles in every Swiss home caused?

If all the non Arab African farmers in Darfur were supplied with rifles and surface to air missiles, would they be more or less likely to be murdered by the Janjaweed or by the Sudanese armed forces?

In Iraq, how many people are killed by bombs rather than bullets? What can be done to stop people making home brew explosives?

Of the 1440 people shot dead every day, what proportion are we better off without? Many of my relatives and friends have shot people dead, and many of the people they shot were really quite unpleasant.

Murder and massacre occurred before the invention of firearms, should we blame blacksmiths for the Crusades?

People come in all varieties. Some are good, some are bad. Some people are violent and filled with hate. Some of those people will seek to do violence on other people. They will use whatever tool is readily available. A gun is a tool that makes it easier to kill at a distance. This is handy but not essential for mass murder, as in the already cited example of the Rwandan genocide. The flip side of course is that guns also make it easier to defend yourself from violence. A Somali neighbourhood militia is better able to defend itself against a warlords' mercenary fighters than a medieval village would be against armoured knights and men at arms.

Guns, like any other tools, are morally neutral. Moral values can only be applied to the purposes to which they are put. I happen to think that much of the international arms trade is morally repugnant, but I fail to see how that is relevant to law abiding firearms owners in Western democracies.

Do you believe that CTer and "gun nut" are interchangable terms? Is "gun nut" a code phrase you are using to describe all firearm owners?

[WildCat]

I've seen conspiracists go on and on about how 9/11 was the work of the US Government. I want to make a point to them, whilst they go on and on about 9/11 a far greater tragedy goes unnoticed by them.

The biggest arms deallers in the world are nearly all in the west.
Small arms kill an average of one person every minute.
60 minutes in an hour = 60 people shot dead an hour.
60 x 24 hours = 1440 people shot dead each day.

1440 a day and they go on about the 'right' of citizens to bear arms.

How many dead from small arms in Darfur ?

How many dead from small arms in Chad ?

How many dead in Somalia because of small arms ?

How many are shot dead every day in Iraq by Iraqis ?


Isn't it time instead of banging on about 9/11 (which wasn't the inside job they believe it to be) that they instead bang on about the arms industry which is subsidised by the taxpayer.

Britain for instance is the worlds second biggest arms dealler, British arms companies who sell abroad have their deals under written by the Export Credit Guarantee Department.

The Labour Government in 1997 promised an ethical dimension to foreign policy, and within months had sold Hawk Jets to indonesia which were used against East Timorese civillians.

Why is it that these people miss the big picture, and instead go on a wild goose chase? Could it be because many of America's biggest conspiracy theorists happen to be proud gun owners?

What are your thoughts on this ?
Just so you know, "small arms" in the way you're using it includes rocket propelled grenades, mortars, hand grenades, and light and heavy machine guns.

[Hourglassmemory]

Don't you understand that in their minds, it's more important to stop the evil elite that they have no good evidence for?

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Um, this ain't the Politics forum.