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rwguinn
7th May 2007, 06:53 PM
mankind has been flying, in earnest, for about 100 years.
Mankind has bee stacking stones and wood since prehistory, and using cement and concrete since at least the Roman Empire.

Simulating flight, as done by the good flight simulators involves many different dynamic forces, structural relationships and loads, all solved in real-time and displayed on a computer screen as an interactive movie. The forces are well-known, and all the interactions are calculated. There was an article in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram (http://www.star-telegram.com/100/story/93653.html) today about why first flights are no longer as risky as they were.Lockheed Martin test pilot Jon Beesley praised the aircraft's nearly flawless performance. "The airplane," Beesley said, "flew and handled like we thought it would."
Actually, Beesley and the legions of engineers that spent five years working on the F-35 design would have been surprised if the flight had revealed some serious problem. there is a lot of effort goes into design and analysis.
"It's not like in the old days when you put a pilot in a [1950s jet] fighter, and [if he crashed] he got an Air Force base named after him," said Eric Branyan, Lockheed's vice president of JSF mission systems. It looks like the engineers know what they are doing with dynamic systems. They seem to know how forces work, and how real-life airplanes and the systems react to them. In the good flight simulators, with the realism turned up, you can even rip the wings off the airplane you are flying!
Structures have been around a long time. We were building bridges, abodes, and work space long before there were computers, and long before we knew much, if anything, about flight. Many of those buildings have been standing for over a couple centuries, and there are some churches in Europe that are very large, complicated, and old! Obviously, the engineers and designers knew what they were and are doing with static systems.
Why is it, then, that the twoofers have no problem believing the results of flight simulators, but not structural simulations? They throw comments about Flight Simulatoors around like they actually know what they do, and then call any analysis of the towers a lie.
Statics, after all, is technically the trivial case of dynamics: in dynamics, Sum(Force)=M*a. In Statics, Sum(Force)=0.0

Anybody have any answers to this "Technology Cherry Picking Syndrome"

Slayhamlet
7th May 2007, 07:10 PM
MirageMemories has implied that the the science behind the structural analysis of the Twin Towers' collapse is possibly just as shaky as the science behind Nazi era eugenics, in an apparent attempt to establish some sort of moral equivalence between those who defer to the structural engineers of today and those who deferred to racist eugenicists in Nazi Germany. It was quite a bizarre.

beachnut
7th May 2007, 07:26 PM
mankind has been flying, in earnest, for about 100 years.
Mankind has bee stacking stones and wood since prehistory, and using cement and concrete since at least the Roman Empire.

Simulating flight, as done by the good flight simulators involves many different dynamic forces, structural relationships and loads, all solved in real-time and displayed on a computer screen as an interactive movie. The forces are well-known, and all the interactions are calculated. There was an article in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram (http://www.star-telegram.com/100/story/93653.html) today about why first flights are no longer as risky as they were. there is a lot of effort goes into design and analysis.
It looks like the engineers know what they are doing with dynamic systems. They seem to know how forces work, and how real-life airplanes and the systems react to them. In the good flight simulators, with the realism turned up, you can even rip the wings off the airplane you are flying!
Structures have been around a long time. We were building bridges, abodes, and work space long before there were computers, and long before we knew much, if anything, about flight. Many of those buildings have been standing for over a couple centuries, and there are some churches in Europe that are very large, complicated, and old! Obviously, the engineers and designers knew what they were and are doing with static systems.
Why is it, then, that the twoofers have no problem believing the results of flight simulators, but not structural simulations? They throw comments about Flight Simulatoors around like they actually know what they do, and then call any analysis of the towers a lie.
Statics, after all, is technically the trivial case of dynamics: in dynamics, Sum(Force)=M*a. In Statics, Sum(Force)=0.0

Anybody have any answers to this "Technology Cherry Picking Syndrome"



Quote:
Lockheed Martin test pilot Jon Beesley praised the aircraft's nearly flawless performance. "The airplane," Beesley said, "flew and handled like we thought it would."
Actually, Beesley and the legions of engineers that spent five years working on the F-35 design would have been surprised if the flight had revealed some serious problem.

there is a lot of effort goes into design and analysis.

Quote:
"It's not like in the old days when you put a pilot in a [1950s jet] fighter, and [if he crashed] he got an Air Force base named after him," said Eric Branyan, Lockheed's vice president of JSF mission systems.



I was going to say, you needed to be doing something more than just crashing your jet to have a based named for you. Usually you were doing a big test flight like Edward, or Edwards AFB, or famous. The author of the "old days" is not exactly correct.

Then how things are so safe now is one way to look at it, but it is ironic now when a jet crashes, there is a software guy out there checking up on the computer stuff that made the jet crash.

Funny, and not so funny, how spectaculars the crashes of modern jets are, as the software takes over and smashes the jet into the ground cause it switched modes by accident, just all by itself.

I have no idea how truthers can mess up simple physics and believe the most far fetched story with no facts or evidence, and apparently no research. Lazy, lack of experience, lack of education, lack of what ever it is when we fail to think? Or just lack of reading, lack of comprehension… (the possibilities are many)

rwguinn
7th May 2007, 07:59 PM
I was going to say, you needed to be doing something more than just crashing your jet to have a based named for you. Usually you were doing a big test flight like Edward, or Edwards AFB, or famous. The author of the "old days" is not exactly correct.

Then how things are so safe now is one way to look at it, but it is ironic now when a jet crashes, there is a software guy out there checking up on the computer stuff that made the jet crash.

Funny, and not so funny, how spectaculars the crashes of modern jets are, as the software takes over and smashes the jet into the ground cause it switched modes by accident, just all by itself.

I have no idea how truthers can mess up simple physics and believe the most far fetched story with no facts or evidence, and apparently no research. Lazy, lack of experience, lack of education, lack of what ever it is when we fail to think? Or just lack of reading, lack of comprehension… (the possibilities are many)
Beechnut-
Don't get hung up on the inconsequential. Nit picking the story is not what the da%n post was about! The story is absolutely not meant to be taken literally-and you should either know it, or refrain from such derail comments until you understand what it is about.
Everybody associated with aviation's early days knew somebody killed or maimed in a "first flight" attempt, and it was extremely dangerous. That is all the story is saying in its (to me, successful) attempts at humor. Living people do not get Air Force Bases named after them. It was, for the most part, true with the early first flights--you never knew what would happen, and many first flights ended in disaster--even as late as the F-14.

gumboot
8th May 2007, 09:08 AM
I don't think trust or lack there-of in building simulations have anything to do with it.

I've never ever met a 9/11 Conspiracy Theorist who decided the buildings were brought down by CD after reading the NIST report.

-Gumboot