I'm seriously freaked out.

[JP1283]

Hi guys. I have something I need to talk about.

My best friend, who has claimed to have had some psychic ability (which I haven't really believed in) has told me in the past that she has had a feeling that she will die in a car wreck. I brushed this off.

Then I was talking with a mutual friend of ours. Apparently, she has had three different experiences where she dreamed of a friend or family member dying in a car crash. Last night she had one about Shannon (our friend.) This really struck me, and it's bothering me. To the point that I am going to call my friend tomorrow and tell her not to drive.

I sound crazy. I know that. But I am seriously freaked out right now. Part of the reason is, I lost a friend in a car wreck back in November and I don't want to lose my best friend like that again, or at all.

[knot]

Tell her to take the challenge and prove the "psychic" wrong. You might add, "don't drink any alcohol" just in case. On the other hand, chit happens, you can't control the world and you can't live in a bubble.

[Explorer]

Your mutual friend it seems is obsessed with people dying in car crashes, so consequently there will be a constant stream of predictions from her repetitive dreams of such incidents. If she carries on like this, eventually she may, over her lifetime get one right, but that would be by random chance.

There is a high chance of any of us dying in a road accident. I lost both my sister and father-in-law in separate road accidents several years ago.

One good thing about us humans, is that we cannot predict the future, and that is an absolute blessing, not a frustrating limitation. When someone claims to predict the future from dreams or from so-called premonitions, they are only following a long tradition of predictive behaviour going back to Biblical times and beyond, when such premonitions had great significance for the then, unenlightened.

I have had repetitive dreams of being killed by a tornado, ever since I was a child, but so far, at the age of 61, so good, and as I live in the UK, there is far less chance of that happening than for someone living in Kansas.

Dreams and premonitions say more about the state of mind of the dreamer than the actual potential reality of the dream itself. There can often be an underlying irrational fear or phobia that is expressed in the process of dreaming. Dreaming can be a cathartic experience, and an outlet for fears of insecurity perhaps, or some deep memory of an unpleasant earlier experience.

I can remember once just out walking with my wife through a market a few years ago, and for some unknown reason at a certain point had this terrible and irrational feeling of dread. Some people would put this down to a premonition or a memory at that location, of some unpleasant prior event. It turned out to be a symptom of an anxiety problem that I was suffering from. Happily, I got better and the experience was never repeated again.

I wish you and your friends well!

[JP1283]

Thank you for your well wishes. I wrote the previous post right after the whole thing started about an hour ago, and I left out a big part apparently. Sara (the mutual friend of myself and Shannon) said that on the three separate occasions, each person died in a car crash within two weeks of her having the dream. I'm sorry I didn't mention that earlier, and please don't think that I'm spamming the board here or changing stories.

That's the part that is scaring me the most. Now, all I have to go on is her word. If I assume her word is accurate, then that would mean that she is telling the truth about each person close to her dying the same way she dreamed they would. If that happens to Shannon, I don't know what I'll do.

[Jackalgirl]

[QUOTE=JP1283;2600802

Then I was talking with a mutual friend of ours. Apparently, she has had three different experiences where she dreamed of a friend or family member dying in a car crash. Last night she had one about Shannon (our friend.) This really struck me, and it's bothering me. To the point that I am going to call my friend tomorrow and tell her not to drive.
[/QUOTE]

In regards to your mutual friend and her three dreams...how many of them came true?

[JP1283]

From what she said, all three of them came true within two weeks of her having the dream.

[Jackalgirl]

From what she said, all three of them came true within two weeks of her having the dream.

Interesting! In that case, I'd do some more investigating. For example, did any of those people exhibit risky behaviour? For example, were they prone to drinking and driving? Did they regularly drive in an unsafe fashion? Also, I'd be curious to know whether these were the only accident-death dreams this person had, or whether these were the only three that came true.

In the first case, what you'd be trying to establish is if there were other cues that might have set off her worries; if a person has problems with alcohol, for example, that significantly increases the chance of that person being involved in an automobile accident (that is, if they drive under the influence).

In the second case, what you'd be looking for is observational bias (counting the hits, ignoring the misses). This is harder to do, because people tend to entirely forget the misses...

[JP1283]

I asked Sara tonight if she has had the dreams about other people; she says she hasn't, only about those that died, and that the dreams don't happen very often. She did name the specific people, all of which I didn't know. I don't remember all the names offhand (one of them was named Erik, who was her ex.) I could ask her though and find some evidence, maybe through newspapers.

It's just got me a little freaked out...my best friend tells me that she thinks she'll die in an auto accident, and then someone totally different has that dream about her after dreaming about other people in auto accidents. Should I be thinking about slashing her tires so she can't drive right about now?

[JP1283]

Shannon is a safe driver, save for talking on her cell phone once in awhile as we all do. She would never drive drunk, and always has a place to stay with a friend if she does drink too much.

[Jackalgirl]

Shannon is a safe driver, save for talking on her cell phone once in awhile as we all do. She would never drive drunk, and always has a place to stay with a friend if she does drink too much.

There are things you can worry about -- such as Shannon's ability to drive, how careful she is when she does, etc. And there are things you can't, such as the other people (defensive driving only takes you so far). The question you have to ask yourself is: is it worth it to live in fear, or to ask my friend to live in fear? For how long -- the rest of her life? That's why I recommend the research -- you should eliminate all of the other possibilities (unconscious cuing, confirmation bias, etc).

I certainly wouldn't recommend slashing her tires. Chances are, she'd get them fixed and start driving again, right? ; )

Edited to add: I don't talk on my cellphone while driving, ever. I did a couple of times and realized how badly it changed my ability to drive (for the worse). Almost got into an accident, in fact. If Shannon is using her cell phone at all, I would advise her to simply turn the thing off when in the car, or to learn to ignore it.

[skeptigirl]

Hi guys. I have something I need to talk about.

My best friend, who has claimed to have had some psychic ability (which I haven't really believed in) has told me in the past that she has had a feeling that she will die in a car wreck. I brushed this off.

Then I was talking with a mutual friend of ours. Apparently, she has had three different experiences where she dreamed of a friend or family member dying in a car crash. Last night she had one about Shannon (our friend.) This really struck me, and it's bothering me. To the point that I am going to call my friend tomorrow and tell her not to drive.

I sound crazy. I know that. But I am seriously freaked out right now. Part of the reason is, I lost a friend in a car wreck back in November and I don't want to lose my best friend like that again, or at all.Everyone should be wearing seatbelts and driving safely regardless of these warnings.

I tell people this all the time that think if they know a person has HIV they will be more careful. More careful than what? Than usual? One needs to be careful in cars all the time. Who cares about any warning?

And since none of us can really quit moving from place to place on the roads whether you drive or take a bus, taking the same precautions when driving (passenger and driver) should be what you do all the time anyway.

[skeptigirl]

This is probably the wrong thread to bring this up in, but after a glass of wine....oh well.

When I was 16, I had a boyfriend, Allen, who at 18 was killed in a car accident. Before he died he had visited an aunt back east (we were in So CA) who was into all sorts of occult stuff. This was the 60s mind you, everyone was into the occult. His aunt told him he was born 9 months after another relative (I think cousin) was killed in Korea in the war. She said Allen was living the second half of the relative's life and would also die young. It was really creepy when it came true.

But it was a coincidence and coincidences happen. Driving in a VW, no seatbelts, he let his friend drive for an unknown reason. There were beer cans in the car, I don't know if they were drunk but they probably were. The friend took a curve too fast, they spun out into an oncoming car. That is what killed them. They both died.

Cars are safer now. More people wear seatbelts. We could prevent many deaths if everyone wore seatbelts and took the basic precautions driving. That is more important than some silly premonition.

[osmosis]

These so-called premonitions would be MUCH more convincing if the person having them wrote them down at the time, rather than claiming after the fact, "I saw it coming".

I'm sure your friend believes her dreams are accurate foretellings, but I'm equally sure she's deluded. Forget about it. The future doesn't exist yet, and nobody can see it.

[JP1283]

What did cross my mind is...if she really saw the deaths coming, wouldn't she have done everything in her power to stop them? I laid in bed last night thinking of ways to stop Shannon from driving for the next two weeks...I must be going crazy. That's what fear mixed with OCD will do to you. Thank you for your responses.

[Oualawouzou]

Have you heard of "confirmation bias"? It is often referred to as "remember the hits, forget the misses".

In other words, your friend is adamant she dreams of car crashes rarely and that when she does, they come true. Has she any record of this? Does she keep a diary, or a log of her dreams? Confirmation bias often plays a huge role in getting people to believe they have predicting powers based on dreams or intuition. Ask your friend about it. "I just know it's true" is a very bad argument. If she doesn't already, encourage her to keep a log of her dreams.

Oh, the other possibility is that your friend is a psycho serial killer who sabotage cars, but I'm sure you've thought of that already. ;)

[Steven Howard]

Is this the friend who psychically figured out that you were gay (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=37327), the friend who had ghosts writing on her (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=50988), the friend who psychically answers Trivial Pursuit questions (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=71994), or the friend whose daughter can psychically locate missing mugs (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=72615)?

[moxierain]

hey JP, I joined the forum. LOL.

Sounds like its more of a freaky coincidence, I think that sometimes people tend to look at them more than they should. Who really knows what the truth is, but I wouldn't jump towards the supernatural without evidence.

I think those who claim to have "psychic abilities" are actually people who can read others well in body language and facial expressions, and are good with people socially, and like to grasp at straws when it comes to their "psychic" ability.

Truth is that lots of people die in car crashes and have accidents. All you can do is encourage Shannon to be smart for her own personal safety. I think coincidences are just that coincidences, I have one friend who thinks that coincidences are signs from god, so when things don't work out, he gets depressed. So I feel sorry for him. Coincidences happen to everyone everywhere.

[Belz...]

Hi guys. I have something I need to talk about.

My best friend, who has claimed to have had some psychic ability (which I haven't really believed in) has told me in the past that she has had a feeling that she will die in a car wreck. I brushed this off.

Then I was talking with a mutual friend of ours. Apparently, she has had three different experiences where she dreamed of a friend or family member dying in a car crash. Last night she had one about Shannon (our friend.) This really struck me, and it's bothering me. To the point that I am going to call my friend tomorrow and tell her not to drive.

I sound crazy. I know that. But I am seriously freaked out right now. Part of the reason is, I lost a friend in a car wreck back in November and I don't want to lose my best friend like that again, or at all.

Just in case you want Belz...'s cold advice:

Let him/her drive. There is no such thing as premonitions, and believing in them will only hurt you in the long run.

I've stopped knocking on wood a while ago.

[Oualawouzou]

Is this the friend who psychically figured out that you were gay (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=37327), the friend who had ghosts writing on her (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=50988), the friend who psychically answers Trivial Pursuit questions (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=71994), or the friend whose daughter can psychically locate missing mugs (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=72615)?

Good job Steven.

JP1283, how come you run into so many of these people...?

[kerikiwi]

[QUOTE=JP1283;2600802]
Apparently, she has had three different experiences where she dreamed of a friend or family member dying in a car crash. [QUOTE]
She has claimed to have had these 'prophetic' dreams.
Some possible explanations are:
She never had any such dream.
She had the dreams after the event and either lied or deluded herself about the timing about the timing.
She had the dreams, along with many other dreams, before the event and they had nothing to do with prophecy.
An impossible explanation:
She had the dreams before the event and they were prophetic.

[JoeTheJuggler]

Then I was talking with a mutual friend of ours. Apparently, she has had three different experiences where she dreamed of a friend or family member dying in a car crash.

So the whole thing is an anecdote you got secondhand. I don't think it amounts to anything at all.

Between 40 and 50 thousand people die in auto accidents each year in the U.S. It's a fairly common occurrence. You never heard your friend predict (or dream of) one in advance. You also have no idea how many times she had dreams of auto fatalities that didn't come true.

Don't get upset about it, but recognize that probably the most dangerous thing you do with any regularity (by many orders of magnitude) is to drive or ride in a car.

<derail rant>
I guarantee if we took say $20 billion from Homeland Security and spent it on enforcement of traffic safety laws (including DWI/DUI enforcement, enforcing safe following distances, etc.) and improving the roads that we could actually save a great many lives.
</derail rant>

[jimtron]

What did cross my mind is...if she really saw the deaths coming, wouldn't she have done everything in her power to stop them? I laid in bed last night thinking of ways to stop Shannon from driving for the next two weeks...I must be going crazy. That's what fear mixed with OCD will do to you. Thank you for your responses.

If she can accurately predict the future, how could you change it? IOW, if you're friend is accurate in predicting that someone will die in a car crash, then they will die in a car crash. If the car crash is prevented, then the prediction was wrong. Since no one has ever been able to prove psychic powers, I highly doubt your friend has them. However, it would be pretty easy to prove. Why not start posting her predictions here, as soon as she has them (not after they have already come true). That way, we can all see how accurate she is.

[Miss Anthrope]

Is this the friend who psychically figured out that you were gay (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=37327), the friend who had ghosts writing on her (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=50988), the friend who psychically answers Trivial Pursuit questions (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=71994), or the friend whose daughter can psychically locate missing mugs (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=72615)?

JP, it seems, based on these posts linked above, that you are hanging with a very woo crowd that is given to much drama.

Coincedences happen, but as a former cold reader who hung with these types, you'll see the stories evolve quite a bit, becoming embellished the more often they are told.

There is also an interesting thing to look at. In an above post you noted she said it happened three times before. Have you ever heard of the phenomenon of "Three is the liar's number"? I learned alot about this when I did Occupational Psychology and saw several studies in college. Unfortunately googling I can only come up with this (http://www.statementanalysis.com/explain/) from a former criminal profiler:


Studies have also shown that the number three is a liars number. When deceptive people have to come up with a number, they will often choose the number three.

Not an impressive cite to be sure, but it's something to throw out.

I'm a little skeptical of why you're starting so many woo threads, but I do encourage you to do some research and consider the sources.

[LostAngeles]

If she lost three people to car crashes, then it's possible that this has created a deep fear of such a thing. As a kid, I was afraid of the end of the world (particularly via nuclear war), and as such, I had a lot of nightmares about the end of the world growing up. So it's possible she could be having these nightmares a lot, but happens to remember this one since the other haven't come true.

Counting the hits...

[EHLO]

Hi JP, you obviously care a lot for Shannon and so your concern is understandable.

However the level of fear you are expressing is irrational, based on a dream and the prediction of a friend with self professed psychic ability. Is Shannon as worried as you? Is your psychic friend as worried as you? Relax! I predict everything is going to be all right. Que sera sera…

[JoeTheJuggler]

Is this the friend who psychically figured out that you were gay (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=37327), the friend who had ghosts writing on her (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=50988), the friend who psychically answers Trivial Pursuit questions (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=71994), or the friend whose daughter can psychically locate missing mugs (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=72615)?

Ah. . .it's one of THOSE characters.


So, JP you say:

My best friend, who has claimed to have had some psychic ability (which I haven't really believed in) has told me in the past that she has had a feeling that she will die in a car wreck. I brushed this off.

Your verb tenses are very confusing here. Do you believe your friend has some sort of paranormal power or not?

I'm guessing you're a believer. Why on earth would you want to post your second hand anecdote of supposed psychic dreams to a skeptic's forum?

I think you're just messing around with us. . .again.

[skeptigirl]

Apparently, she has had three different experiences where she dreamed of a friend or family member dying in a car crash.
She has claimed to have had these 'prophetic' dreams.
Some possible explanations are:
She never had any such dream.
She had the dreams after the event and either lied or deluded herself about the timing about the timing.
She had the dreams, along with many other dreams, before the event and they had nothing to do with prophecy.
An impossible explanation:
She had the dreams before the event and they were prophetic.Another possibility: her friends and family are really poor on driving safety. Or even just the ones she picked out as being at risk. Maybe she had a premonition because she observed the cues before the events.

[skeptigirl]

Thanks for the heads up Joe. JP1283 is apparently dishonest for whatever reason he gets enjoyment out of these posts. Here's a sample of the last few threads started by JP. Time to get a life I say. :rolleyes:

Suddenly, the covers on my left side were jerked down really hard, then they fluffed up in the air, then got jerked down again. My immediate thought was that one of the cats was still in the room, but then I remembered that the other two cats were out in the front room. This was also validated when I got up the next morning and they were both on the couch. (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=80360)

...Donna has claimed that there is a psychic streak that runs in her family. She had said that her two-year-old daughter was especially gifted with this 'streak.' She would often say things that she wouldn't have any way of knowing about, such as where objects were, etc. Well I came face to face with this, and it was really weird....Somehow, a mug of mine ended up on a chair. While I was in my tent, I heard Donna ask her daughter where her mug was. Her daughter replied that it was on the chair. The thing is, I can't think of a way she could possibly have known that the mug was on the chair, as they were in their tent! It was really weird. (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=72615)

Since we were playing on teams, it was her team's turn (each team had 2 people) and I asked her team their question. The question went something like this:...Which couple reunited to film the movie "Back to the Beach?" (That's not exactly how the question went but you get the gist.) At first Shannon said it was Brooke Shields and "that other guy," but I told her she was wrong. She thought about it some more, then looked at me hard and, out of the blue, she said "Frankie Avalon and..." Her teammate then said Annette Funicello before she got the chance....I was floored. I myself have never even heard of this movie, nor any of its predecessors, and if I know Shannon, she wouldn't have either. I was thinking that maybe she had already been asked that question once before, but she hasn't had the game very long and has only played it a couple of times, mostly with me. (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=71994)

Here's more: (http://forums.randi.org/search.php?searchid=834197)

Top 10 Ghost Photos

Demonic Experience

Weird experiences.

My One "Paranormal" Experience

And the list goes on, I didn't bother going any further.

[JP1283]

To Joe and Skeptigirl:

No, I am not messing with you. No, these are not people or stories I have made up. They have happened to me, and I know that there isn't any way to tangibly prove that to you. I turn to the JREF with these stories because I realize I'm being irrational by believing in them, in the hopes that I can get some objective feedback from people who don't believe in it. I don't want to believe in it, and I'm sorry that I've made you think that I have some other purpose here other than to do that.

I noticed Moxierain joined this forum because of this topic. She is a friend of mine on another forum, and she can vouch for me that I'm not certifiably crazy or just trying to make trouble on a different forum.

And I agree with the poster that says that I associate with a very "woo" crowd. I try not to, but Shannon has been in my life for practically my entire life.

I only really start a thread on this forum when something really freaks me out. I have a lot of issues with fear, OCD, and anxiety, and these easily get to me. It hurts my feelings a little that I've been told to "get a life" by two of the posters here.

[JP1283]

I just re-read Skeptigirl's post where she quoted from my posts. None of those are lies. Those are things that happened in my life and those were the ways that I interpreted them. I swear on my dead grandfather's grave, and also the grave of my other good friend who died in a car wreck back in November, that I did not make these things up. You may have different thoughts on the way that I interpreted them, but please don't throw them in my face and tell me that I made them all up. I haven't been rude, vicious, or trying to prove a point in any of my threads. Please don't treat me as such.

[kerikiwi]

Two most likely explanations:
You are ,JP, certifiably crazy.
You are playing games.

Nobody has suggested you have been rude, vicious or trying to prove a point. You don't need to be doing any of those things for the above two explanations to hold good.
But swearing on graves is a little melodramatic, and further supports the two explanations.

I would not necessarily say you need to get a life, but you may well need to get help.

[JP1283]

I envy all of you. I really do. Because you have experienced nothing out of the ordinary that made you fearful or scared. And you didn't have anybody to belittle you for being scared about it.

No, I am not certifiably crazy, Keri. No, I am not playing games. I am trying to convince everyone here that I'm not just some spam poster who gets his kicks writing stories and posting them. What would I have to gain from that? You're right, perhaps swearing on graves was melodramatic, but I guess I was trying to drive the point home that I don't have any ulterior motive or anything here.

[Explorer]

JP I think your "clairvoyant" friend needs a little more intelligent investigation.

As this subject is worrying you to the extent that you say it does, then it would be good practice to firstly get corroborative evidence that she actually made the predictions prior to the three events actually happening. Try and find out the dates from other mutual friends when each prediction was made, given that she told other people. If you cannot get that evidence, then her claim cannot stand up.

You most certainly now do have ONE prediction that has not happened yet, your friend Shannon's forthcoming accident. Did Sarah give you a time scale? It seems that all the others died within two weeks of the claimed prediction. Is that what she is claiming now, or is it open ended? If it is the latter, then it is an extremely cruel, selfish and indulgent act to pass that kind of indefinite sentence of fear and concern on to somebody for no good reason, other than to support a spurious and dubious claim of clairvoyance.

On the balance of probabilities, the most likely answer is that a random (lucky or unlucky, if you prefer) statistical cluster has occurred rather than a paranormal prediction, and your friend is doing you and Shannon no favours in winding you both up, particularly when you personally have an existing anxiety problem.

I think you should choose your friends more carefully!

[osmosis]

I'm concerned about three things here.

1) The delusions
2) The panic attacks
3) The OCD.

JP1283, my best advice to you is go see a psychiatrist. I sincerely mean this in the most compassionate way possible. There is noone here qualified to offer you the type of help you clearly need.

Go see a psychiatrist, and tell him/her what you've been telling us. Do not pass "go", do not collect $200.

[JoeTheJuggler]

I only really start a thread on this forum when something really freaks me out. I have a lot of issues with fear, OCD, and anxiety, and these easily get to me.

I don't see any connection. You hear woo stories, you feel anxious, so then you post a thread on a skeptic forum?

You don't think maybe discussing it with a counselor would help allay your fears better than this?

I don't buy it.

[JP1283]

You're right about the counselor. I went in to see my general practitioner two weeks ago for a follow-up on my depression and anxiety, and she gave me a referral to a counselor. Unfortunately, that particular one doesn't accept my insurance plan, nor does the one she referred me to after that, so I'm still in the process of looking. I suppose it would be better therapy than posting it on a web forum.

[JoeTheJuggler]

I envy all of you. I really do. Because you have experienced nothing out of the ordinary that made you fearful or scared.

Why do you presume any such thing about the assorted people on this forum?

Misperception, goofy memory, visual illusions, night terrors, hallucinations--all of these are much more common than you might think.

[JP1283]

Explorer, you are definitely right. I thought about telling Shannon that I don't want to be her friend anymore because of all the drama she creates in my life (and my head.) If she makes it through the next two weeks, I might do that. It really isn't healthy for me mentally to be hanging around her if she has this effect on me and my thinking.

The timeline that Sara gave is two weeks. Apparently each person died within two weeks of her having the respective dream about each one. Shannon is driving to Idaho from Reno a week from this Friday, and I'm concerned about her going. However, I feel a lot better today about it than I did yesterday, as I talked with a few other friends about it (who think it's weird but that it won't happen.)

[JP1283]

Why do you presume any such thing about the assorted people on this forum?

Misperception, goofy memory, visual illusions, night terrors, hallucinations--all of these are much more common than you might think.

That was a stupid comment. I had just read the responses that you, skeptigirl and kerikiwi wrote and it was somewhat retaliatory, and I apologize. I know that everyone has had something unexplained happen to them.

But why do you presume that I'm lying about everything I've posted about to everyone here? Do you think you're above me in your intelligence, or because you think I'm crazy or a nut who just posts weird stuff for fun? That's not the case at all. I don't know how many more times I can say it.

[Explorer]

Explorer, you are definitely right. I thought about telling Shannon that I don't want to be her friend anymore because of all the drama she creates in my life (and my head.) If she makes it through the next two weeks, I might do that. It really isn't healthy for me mentally to be hanging around her if she has this effect on me and my thinking.

The timeline that Sara gave is two weeks. Apparently each person died within two weeks of her having the respective dream about each one. Shannon is driving to Idaho from Reno a week from this Friday, and I'm concerned about her going. However, I feel a lot better today about it than I did yesterday, as I talked with a few other friends about it (who think it's weird but that it won't happen.)

JP, I was referring to Sarah in particular when I made that comment about choosing your friends more carefully. Does Shannon also give you problems too of this kid?

Anxiety and depression is a topical subject in the UK at present, and the best therapy apparently is a long walk in the country (specifically NOT the town). Good exercise helps a hell of a lot too! Try that first before any medication, I suggest, if you haven't already.

[kerikiwi]

Everyone has had something unexplained happen to them?
Wrong. Nothing unexplained has ever happened to me.

[Jackalgirl]

Well, JP, I'm not going to bounce all over you regarding those other threads. On the other hand, though, make sure that you're reading the replies (I know you are) and applying the advice. In other words, when people say things like "it might be confirmation bias", apply that yourself when these freaky things happen: ask yourself "am I getting the whole story here? Is this person keeping a dream log? Or does she only remember the dreams that come true?" When you see people talk about unconscious cueing, remember that -- and the next time something freaky happens, say to yourself, "could there be some pattern in the way these people drive that might be providing clues that could very well happen?" You might want to do that before you post the next freaky-thing thread, and turn this into a discussion of what might be most likely, or what other people would explore, or possibilities you might have missed.

Honestly, I haven't read through all the threads, so I really don't know the totality of your experience here. I'm just sayin' that part of the reason for this Forum's existance is for education, so it's really important to learn from what people are saying (unless it's BS, of course), and then go apply it. And pay attention to how your worldview changes, because that in and of itself is a pretty cool and interesting process. : )

[Soapy Sam]

To Joe and Skeptigirl:

No, I am not messing with you. No, these are not people or stories I have made up. They have happened to me, and I know that there isn't any way to tangibly prove that to you. I turn to the JREF with these stories because I realize I'm being irrational by believing in them, in the hopes that I can get some objective feedback from people who don't believe in it. I don't want to believe in it, and I'm sorry that I've made you think that I have some other purpose here other than to do that.

I noticed Moxierain joined this forum because of this topic. She is a friend of mine on another forum, and she can vouch for me that I'm not certifiably crazy or just trying to make trouble on a different forum.

And I agree with the poster that says that I associate with a very "woo" crowd. I try not to, but Shannon has been in my life for practically my entire life.

I only really start a thread on this forum when something really freaks me out. I have a lot of issues with fear, OCD, and anxiety, and these easily get to me. It hurts my feelings a little that I've been told to "get a life" by two of the posters here.

I envy all of you. I really do. Because you have experienced nothing out of the ordinary that made you fearful or scared. And you didn't have anybody to belittle you for being scared about it.

No, I am not certifiably crazy, Keri. No, I am not playing games. I am trying to convince everyone here that I'm not just some spam poster who gets his kicks writing stories and posting them. What would I have to gain from that? You're right, perhaps swearing on graves was melodramatic, but I guess I was trying to drive the point home that I don't have any ulterior motive or anything here.

You're right about the counselor. I went in to see my general practitioner two weeks ago for a follow-up on my depression and anxiety, and she gave me a referral to a counselor. Unfortunately, that particular one doesn't accept my insurance plan, nor does the one she referred me to after that, so I'm still in the process of looking. I suppose it would be better therapy than posting it on a web forum.

Explorer, you are definitely right. I thought about telling Shannon that I don't want to be her friend anymore because of all the drama she creates in my life (and my head.) If she makes it through the next two weeks, I might do that. It really isn't healthy for me mentally to be hanging around her if she has this effect on me and my thinking.

The timeline that Sara gave is two weeks. Apparently each person died within two weeks of her having the respective dream about each one. Shannon is driving to Idaho from Reno a week from this Friday, and I'm concerned about her going. However, I feel a lot better today about it than I did yesterday, as I talked with a few other friends about it (who think it's weird but that it won't happen.)

That was a stupid comment. I had just read the responses that you, skeptigirl and kerikiwi wrote and it was somewhat retaliatory, and I apologize. I know that everyone has had something unexplained happen to them.

But why do you presume that I'm lying about everything I've posted about to everyone here? Do you think you're above me in your intelligence, or because you think I'm crazy or a nut who just posts weird stuff for fun? That's not the case at all. I don't know how many more times I can say it.

By the nature of internet communication, it is impossible for us to know / you to prove the truth of your past experience or the honesty of your beliefs.
What can be done is to establish a pattern. Certain patterns of behaviour arouse suspicion because they look indistinguishable from trolling .
One thing you can do to establish confidence is provide data in support of these experiences. A prediction is worth a thousand anecdotes for example.
Can you give us some data?
The full name of the individual who is predicted to have an accident and the details as dreamed / envisioned- location / topographical description / other vehicles involved / approximate time of day / weather etc., etc.,.
if you or your friend can provide such corroborative detail now, before the accident which is predicted- and that detail is confirmed at a later date- then we have a case to answer.
If(as I expect) the dream is just a dream and no accident happens, then we lose nothing.

(ETA- Should you feel unwilling to put such data on an open website, do so by Private Message. PM it to me and skeptigirl for instance. It is considered seriously offensive on this board to reveal PM content without the sender's permission. This gives a record - before the event- which would be supported by two established forum members with known sceptical views.)

[JP1283]

I will send the information requested via PM to you, Soapy Sam. Thanks.

[patrick767]

[url=http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=71994]Since we were playing on teams, it was her team's turn (each team had 2 people) and I asked her team their question. The question went something like this:...Which couple reunited to film the movie "Back to the Beach?" (That's not exactly how the question went but you get the gist.) At first Shannon said it was Brooke Shields and "that other guy," but I told her she was wrong. She thought about it some more, then looked at me hard and, out of the blue, she said "Frankie Avalon and..."

heh... I like this one. It reminds me of playing a partners' game of trivial pursuit years ago when we got a question about where the author of "The Graduate" was living when he died. We had no idea, so being silly, my partner and I looked at each other, had the same thought, and said in our best Chris Farley imitations - "you're going to end up living in a van down by the river!" The answer was "a van". Woohoo! We're psychic!

I play trivia every week at a bar and have frequently noticed questions that I get right and have no idea how I knew the answer as it seemed to be a topic that I knew absolutely nothing about. That's just normal. We know all sorts of trivial little tidbits that we have no idea we even know or where we picked them up, but a question triggers what's left of the memory.

Anyway, JP... all I can do is echo what others have said. Things are going to be fine and this is NOT something that should cause anxiety for you. You have some really woo woo friends who are likely very prone to confirmation bias and possibly to just making stuff up. A friend of mine was, for awhile, hanging around a young woman who kept having husbands and fiancees die or have other horrible tragedies happen to them under strange circumstances. There were three within a couple years. The thing is, it became obvious that none of these men even existed. The young woman apparently just liked getting attention from claiming all this drama in her life. Yeah... she needed psychological help.

[ksbluesfan]

Age plays a big factor on the cause of death. If I'm not mistaken, the majority of deaths for people between 5 and 21 is due to auto accidents. If this person was to predict the death of your friend by something more rare, I'd be more impressed.

[Ipecac]

I live about 600 miles from most of my family. Every year, there are a couple of times when some family member or other is driving out to see us. During those times, of course it passes my mind that "Oh, no. I hope they don't get in an accident." I imagine that happens to almost everyone who hears that someone else is going on a long car trip.

In fact, if I'm waiting for someone who's driving to me and they're five minutes late, the first thing that crosses my mind is "I hope they weren't in an accident." Given how much people drive in the US, I would be shocked if most people didn't think such thoughts.

Because of this, some people will occasionally be "correct" and the person who is driving will get into an accident. This doesn't mean it was predicted, it is just statistically bound to happen. This is all that ever happened with your friends "predictions". Nothing supernatural, just the human mind worrying about something which, occasionally, does come true.

You spending any energy worrying about this is unnecessary and counterproductive. Stop doing it. :)

[The Atheist]

Everyone has had something unexplained happen to them?
Wrong. Nothing unexplained has ever happened to me.

It has now - I'm psychic and I predict that you live in Kerikeri!

Hiya Kiwi!

[The Atheist]

Hi guys. I have something I need to talk about.


I see two possibilities here:

You're in desperate need of some serious psychological help.

You're in really desperate need of some serious psychological help.

Even if what you're writing is complete BS - and I have every reason to think it is, going by your other threads - you're still in need of help, because only a person with serious issues would find the need to spam this crap all over a message board. Get help.

Fast.

[Irish Murdoch]

Everyone has had something unexplained happen to them?
Wrong. Nothing unexplained has ever happened to me.
I'm sure lots of unexplained things have happened to me. No unexplainable things have, though.

[JoeTheJuggler]

I'm sure lots of unexplained things have happened to me. No unexplainable things have, though.

I guess my statement was poorly worded, because I certainly didn't mean unexplainable. In fact, I didn't even mean things that require explanation. That was sort of my point--just because something seems strange or inexplicable in your own subjective experience doesn't mean it is.

[Miss Anthrope]

I envy all of you. I really do. Because you have experienced nothing out of the ordinary that made you fearful or scared. And you didn't have anybody to belittle you for being scared about it.

.

JP, as I noted before, I spent my entire life surrounded by "mediums" and "Psychics". I had my grandmother and my own mother tell me the time of day I will die. I was seven at the time. Talk about terrifying? I attended saences and readings throughout all of my childhood, and they were positively creepy.

I myself believed I could get messages from the dead, have premonitions through dreams and mediation, see ghosts, and read tarot cards with unbelievable accuracy. I sincerely believed this with all my heart. It took studying the art of cold reading and watching hours of videotaped readings, readings that I performed, to truly understand what was going on.

When it came down to it, it became obvious. I had mastered the ability to capitalize on hits. I was very, very detailed and specific. I did not just throw out wild, generic guesses all that often. But, I did see I was incredibly good at picking up on body language and following the hot leads. The misses were quickly dismissed. I almost always knew from conversing a little about who I was reading. People who are eagerly seeking this type of information are more than happy to fill you in. Once a cold reader has this info, it colors everything they are saying.

The people I read for always came away feeling I was perfectly accurate. They remembered me as having a great gift. Same for my mother and grandmother before me. But after reviewing the tapes objectively, I learned just how fallible the human memory is. I also discovered that people would tell me and others that I had given them specific information that I had never given them. Because they wanted to believe, they embellished their stories to make them better, or because they really wanted to believe it that way.

I also hung with that woo crowd. They liked that number three thing a lot. They embellished their stories quite a bit, too. I heard the stories recounted over and over again, and the level of accuracy and number of things that "came to pass" grew with each retelling. Woo types are indeed given to theatrics. I think they know they're lying, too, but they want to impress. The way lots of people exaggerate this or that to impress.

[Soapy Sam]

JP has, as he stated, PM'd data regarding the people involved. I will keep that private.
Should anything come of this, I will reveal the data after obtaining the permission of JP and any other party he feels should be contacted.

While I'm in little doubt this is a fairly typical case of coincidence and selective misremembering, we do have a record before the event.

I have asked JP to clearly decide what would constitute a "hit" in his opinion and he can post that here or by PM as he prefers.

Nb. So everyone is in no doubt. This is the JREF Forum, not JREF itself. Nobody on the forum speaks for the JREF organisation and this recorded prediction is in no way connected with the JREF Paranormal Challenge.
I would hazard a guess that JREF would be unlikely to accept predictions involving serious accidents , because of the obvious possibility that someone might actually stage such an accident to claim the prize. Clear moral issues arise, just as with genetic testing for susceptibility to disease: Imagine the sort of problems the insurance industry would face in the case of true precognition.
(ETA- And the fact it is doing fine is a major indicator that true precognition is so rare as to be a matter of occasional coincidence).

[JoeTheJuggler]

SoapySam, can you characterize the claim/prediction without giving any of the private info? Is it something like named person X will die in a car accident within two weeks or something like that? (In other words--close calls don't count, nor do non-fatal accidents.) Also is there any way to verify any of this? Most highway fatalities around here don't even make the news, except maybe in an obituary. (Seriously--there are still 40,000 - 50,000 per year in the U.S.--it would monopolize the news if covered.)

Good to emphasize that this is not the JREF Million Dollar Challenge (and apparently qualifying and applying for that is impossible at this point). However, maybe he could apply for some of the other cash prizes. If I had any money, I'd offer some.

Meanwhile, JP, you noted that you're not making any claims or telling any lies. Here in the 21st century, apparently no one tells lies anymore--they mischaracterize things, mislead, etc., but never actually lie. You've been careful not to make any explicit claims, but you are certainly implying that you think your friend has psychic abilities. If you don't believe (as you sort of stated in the weird verb tenses in the OP), then why would you be afraid?

Again, do you believe, or not? If you believe, then will you change your belief if this prediction doesn't happen? Or is this belief some kind of blind faith where all the proof in the world (and good explanations of why things seem strange as the confirmation bias) won't change your mind?

If you don't believe, then what's the deal?

This is where the issue of honesty arises--you can't simultaneously believe and disbelieve.

[JP1283]

I can post what I would consider a "hit" here. If she does in fact, perish in an auto accident within the next two weeks, while she is out of town (I mentioned in detail to Soapy Sam that in Sara's dream, she felt that it wasn't local as she got the news of Shannon's death late), I would take that as a hit. (Shannon will be driving to Idaho within the next two weeks; I will be getting the exact dates later tonight when I call her.) Anything less than that, such as a close-call, a fender-bender, or a flat tire, would not count as a hit for me.

Hi, Joe...I don't particularly believe in my friend's (or others') psychic abilities...I fear they are real. When I hear of a strange coincidence, such as Shannon telling me a long time ago about how she thought she would die in a car wreck, and then someone else telling me they have dreams about people dying and then they do, and that they had one about Shannon dying the same way that Shannon thought she would...it gets under my skin and freaks me out. No, I don't believe in it, per se, but I fear it to be true. If after the next two weeks nothing happens (which I hope is the case, obviously) I think it will help me to overcome these feelings of fear that occur when I hear of things like this.

ETA: I am not interested in any prizes at all. I am not trying to bet that this will happen. I don't want it to happen. If in fact the premonition comes true, I would never want to collect money or anything else for it; it would be reprehensible for me to do so.

[skeptigirl]

That was a stupid comment. I had just read the responses that you, skeptigirl and kerikiwi wrote and it was somewhat retaliatory, and I apologize. I know that everyone has had something unexplained happen to them.

But why do you presume that I'm lying about everything I've posted about to everyone here? Do you think you're above me in your intelligence, or because you think I'm crazy or a nut who just posts weird stuff for fun? That's not the case at all. I don't know how many more times I can say it.I posted the evidence that led to my conclusion. Other's can draw their own conclusions. And I PM'ed you that, from what you posted, either you are imagining stuff or you are trolling. Either way, the stories are not real.

I agree there is a serious lack of mental health services for people who cannot afford them. It's a disgusting commentary on society that we are stuck paying an outrageous amount for corruption and a needless war, yet we don't provide basic care for the weakest members of society.

If you have insurance, do you have a job? You might consider looking for services you pay for rather than have medical insurance to cover. Why people will spend a $1,000 on a computer, and if you are like me, $100/month for the computer-cable hookup, but not pay out of pocket for a dentist or a psych consult, is beyond me. There may be some low cost services in your area. Have you looked?

[Irish Murdoch]

I can post what I would consider a "hit" here. If she does in fact, perish in an auto accident within the next two weeks, while she is out of town (I mentioned in detail to Soapy Sam that in Sara's dream, she felt that it wasn't local as she got the news of Shannon's death late), I would take that as a hit. (Shannon will be driving to Idaho within the next two weeks; I will be getting the exact dates later tonight when I call her.) Anything less than that, such as a close-call, a fender-bender, or a flat tire, would not count as a hit for me.

Hi, Joe...I don't particularly believe in my friend's (or others') psychic abilities...I fear they are real. When I hear of a strange coincidence, such as Shannon telling me a long time ago about how she thought she would die in a car wreck, and then someone else telling me they have dreams about people dying and then they do, and that they had one about Shannon dying the same way that Shannon thought she would...it gets under my skin and freaks me out. No, I don't believe in it, per se, but I fear it to be true. If after the next two weeks nothing happens (which I hope is the case, obviously) I think it will help me to overcome these feelings of fear that occur when I hear of things like this.

ETA: I am not interested in any prizes at all. I am not trying to bet that this will happen. I don't want it to happen. If in fact the premonition comes true, I would never want to collect money or anything else for it; it would be reprehensible for me to do so.
If you're on the level (sorry for the "if", I just have no sure way of knowing), then I think that what you're doing in ruminating on all this stuff, and looking for reassurance concerning it, is just feeding your OCD. That's how OCD works--and it also allows you to find patterns in your experience that don't really correspond to anything "out there". Don't feed it. Rather than search for reassurance on a sceptics' forum, it would be better to talk to people who know what you're experiencing. You can do it here: www.stuckinadoorway.co.uk .

[skeptigirl]

Everyone has had something unexplained happen to them?
Wrong. Nothing unexplained has ever happened to me.Well Ive had a couple things happen, over my lifetime! But not every other day.

[JP1283]

Things don't happen every day, Skeptigirl. The events that I've posted about have happened over the course of the past three years. Some of the events have happened close to each other. I began posting on this site in April, 2005. Perhaps instead of dismissing my threads as lies, you could read over them? You don't have to if you don't want to, obviously...but the events that have happened have hurt me and it hurts me when people I tell about them say they're lies.

[JP1283]

Thanks, Irish...I am already a poster on Stuckinadoorway and I have posted about these things on that forum as well. I believe you can still find the threads on there. I have the same user name.

[Irish Murdoch]

Good, I'm pleased about that. Remember, searching for reassurance only takes you further into OCD. No matter how hard it is to avoid, try not to look for reassurance.

[knot]

I only really start a thread on this forum when something really freaks me out. I have a lot of issues with fear, OCD, and anxiety, and these easily get to me. It hurts my feelings a little that I've been told to "get a life" by two of the posters here.

So are you an "EMO"? From what I've been hearing, emo's are highly sensitive and make issues out of nothing.

[Jon.]

Everyone has had something unexplained happen to them?
Wrong. Nothing unexplained has ever happened to me.

Yeah, but can you explain that? I didn't think so! :p

[JoeTheJuggler]

Hi, Joe...I don't particularly believe in my friend's (or others') psychic abilities...I fear they are real. When I hear of a strange coincidence, such as Shannon telling me a long time ago about how she thought she would die in a car wreck, and then someone else telling me they have dreams about people dying and then they do, and that they had one about Shannon dying the same way that Shannon thought she would...it gets under my skin and freaks me out. No, I don't believe in it, per se, but I fear it to be true. If after the next two weeks nothing happens (which I hope is the case, obviously) I think it will help me to overcome these feelings of fear that occur when I hear of things like this.

This makes no sense. If you don't believe in it (and the "per se" meaning "in itself" adds nothing to your statement since there is no other way to believe in something except in the thing itself), then there's no reason to be afraid. If you're afraid her prediction is true, then you do believe in her abilities.

Again, you can't disbelieve and believe at the same time.

I think you do believe, and I don't think the failure of this prediction will do anything to change that.

Edit: I will be happy to admit I'm wrong if you post here in a couple of weeks that the person didn't die in a car crash and therefore you think psychic predictions are just bunk.

[JoeTheJuggler]

Well Ive had a couple things happen, over my lifetime! But not every other day.

I was talking more about things like misperception, faulty memory, confusing dreams for memories and the like.

Top notch magicians present illusions that really look like magic to me, but when I can't explain how the trick works, I certain don't appeal to supernatural explanations. I'm one of 10 siblings, and anytime any of us reminisce about events where 2 or more of us where witnesses or participants, it's amazing how different the memories are. (And yet to each of us, our own version is the one we insist is correct.)

I don't count really freaky-seeming coincidences, because those are easily explained.

[Soapy Sam]

SoapySam, can you characterize the claim/prediction without giving any of the private info?

I think JP has answered pretty clearly.
We have a prediction and a definition of a "hit".
That's fine by me.

I wish the lady a pleasant drive and will be pleased to hear of her safe arrival.

[JoeTheJuggler]

I think JP has answered pretty clearly.
We have a prediction and a definition of a "hit".
That's fine by me.


Any way to verify it? If he announces she died in a wreck, do we just take his word for it?

[skeptigirl]

Any way to verify it? If he announces she died in a wreck, do we just take his word for it?
A news report might be made. Not all traffic fatalities make it in the news but most at least make the local paper.

But I'm not even going there, like I said, proper safety measures leave only the most severe accidents causing death. If this lady were to die but it turns out, no seatbelt, drinking was involved or she's simply a reckless driver, then I'd take it as evidence the psychic was making a prediction based on prior cues, not premonitions.

JP1283, I'm still not convinced you are interpreting your surroundings clearly. You ask not to be called a liar and other than the fact your stories lack credibility, I have no other evidence it is purposeful, so I will act on the assumption it is an exaggerated imagination interpreting normal events abnormally. I mean you no ill will.

[JP1283]

I've been thinking about what would happen if Shannon actually dies during the trip she's going to be taking to Idaho. It would probably change my entire worldview, as I would have to believe in some sort of paranormal ability. I wouldn't be able to accept it as coincidence that she died. Obviously, I'm hoping that this 'premonition' does not come true and I'm hoping that I'm just being overly paranoid about the entire thing.

But if something does happen, I doubt I'll be in any position or state of mental health to even report back to you guys that something happened; I'll probably be on my way to the loony bin after losing my best friend in an accident that I was warned would happen. I'm going to PM SoapySam with all the local newspapers around here I can think of. Shannon is apparently taking the trip to Idaho this weekend, leaving on Friday. He does have her full name, so he will be able to check and see if anything happened if it is the case that I am too distraught. Obviously I'm hoping nothing happens and I can report back to all of you that nothing happened.

I think my 'belief' in psychic predictions (if you want to call it belief, as I don't call it that) will end when I see that Shannon made it back alright, and I'll be more able to judge the source rather than the information. I've also considered stopping being friends with Shannon after all of this, as the drama these issues cause in my mind is too much to take.

Skeptigirl, I'm hoping that's exactly what all of this is. I want my sanity back and an ability to think rationally about things like most of the rest of the posters here. I'm hoping that these events that have occurred are just being exaggerated by my over-analytical mind. If you want a background on what I've been through, I believe I posted a thread roughly a year ago entitled "My Anti-Testimony." That's where all my problems started. It is quite a long read so if you don't feel like reading, or are not particularly interested anyway, that's okay.

I wanted to say that a few of the threads I've started (there was one entitled Demonic Experience which is a good example of this) were not about me, they were stories posted by other posters on another forum I frequent that I thought I would re-post here to get opinions.

[Ipecac]

I've been thinking about what would happen if Shannon actually dies during the trip she's going to be taking to Idaho. It would probably change my entire worldview, as I would have to believe in some sort of paranormal ability. I wouldn't be able to accept it as coincidence that she died. Obviously, I'm hoping that this 'premonition' does not come true and I'm hoping that I'm just being overly paranoid about the entire thing.

Your friend is about to drive a long distance, an inherently dangerous activity. The odds that she gets into a fatal accident are small, but they are not zero. If she does, it doesn't prove any paranormal ability.

It's the same as someone getting on a plane thinking that the plane will crash. On occasion, the plane does crash. It doesn't prove anything.

[Loss Leader]

It would probably change my entire worldview, as I would have to believe in some sort of paranormal ability.


The evidence indicates that you already do.

[nails3jesus0]

hey is there a chance that the first girl who had a dream told the second girl before she too had a dream about the same thing? Thats what i was thinking, or she heard about the first dream and either had a dream because of that/made up that she had that sort of dream (im not trying to insult your friend btw!!).

[jimtron]

I've been thinking about what would happen if Shannon actually dies during the trip she's going to be taking to Idaho. It would probably change my entire worldview, as I would have to believe in some sort of paranormal ability. I wouldn't be able to accept it as coincidence that she died.I think my 'belief' in psychic predictions (if you want to call it belief, as I don't call it that) will end when I see that Shannon made it back alright, and I'll be more able to judge the source rather than the information.JP, with all due respect, I don't think you have a good understanding of critical thinking. If your friend dies, that doesn't prove she's psychic, and if she doesn't die, that doesn't prove she isn't psychic. (Of course I sincerely hope she doesn't have an accident.)

You're free to believe whatever you want, but if you really want to discriminate between actual paranormal abilities and imagined ones, you'll need to learn about critical thinking and the scientific method. I'm sure folks here can point to links explaining this if they haven't already. I would highly recommend Carl Sagan's book, "The Demon Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark," which you could probably pick up used or find at your local library.

Folks on this thread have brought up many possible non-paranormal explanations for your friends past, supposedly psychic predictions. If you really want to know if her or other's paranormal abilities are real, you must rule out these explanations. If you just want to believe and you aren't interested in distinguishing between real and imagined powers, that's a different story.

As I pointed out earlier in this thread, one simple way to start studying this would be to have Shannon or someone else who you believe to be psychic, to start making specific predictions. Start a thread here and post every single prediction made (before the outcome has passed, not after). The predictions would have to be the kinds of things that we all could verify (things that would be covered in the news, etc.). There are many other ways to test paranormal abilities, but anecdotal evidence means very little.

[Soapy Sam]

Come on , people.
If someone actually predicted 4 fatal accidents, each two weeks before they occurred, would JP be the only one thinking there was something to investigate?

Hardly.

I do not believe his friend predicted fatal accidents.
Either JP does, or he is saying he does.
If he does and this case eases his mind, that seems a good outcome.
If he is kidding us, well, he has, unlike most kidders, given data which can (and will) be checked, if the excursion takes place as planned.

If it does not, at least nothing is lost.

[cullennz]

Come on , people.
If someone actually predicted 4 fatal accidents, each two weeks before they occurred, would JP be the only one thinking there was something to investigate?

Hardly.

I do not believe his friend predicted fatal accidents.
Either JP does, or he is saying he does.
If he does and this case eases his mind, that seems a good outcome.
If he is kidding us, well, he has, unlike most kidders, given data which can (and will) be checked, if the excursion takes place as planned.

If it does not, at least nothing is lost.

If I can make a small prediction?

Shannon aint a real person.

JP will post that Shannon died in a car crash on her trip.

Then there'll be 4 pages of trying to convince JP that just because Shannon crashed it doesn't mean she is psychic.

[Miss Anthrope]

I think it's reasonable to believe that somewhere inbetween Soapy and Cullennz (in their two posts above) the truth can be found.

[JP1283]

Why would I post that Shannon died on her trip if it wasn't true? I don't know how many times I can I say I'm not here to prove anything; I'm not rying to prove that Shannon is psychic; it's not my agenda at all. I posted because I thought maybe I get some help with this irrational fear of her dying in a car accident, not so I could say "I told you so."

Cullenz, I've proved to SoapySam that Shannon is a real person. And I'm not going to post that she died if she didn't. I wouldn't have anything to back it up if I even tried to make that claim if it wasn't true. And I don't want to post anything about her dying anyway; I think I've made it clear that I don't want any of this to be true and I'm hoping that it's all bunk.

[cullennz]

Why would I post that Shannon died on her trip if it wasn't true?

Sorry to be blunt but,

My initial guess was attention seeking.

Then I read the thread we you found it spooky that someone answered a Trivial Pursuit question right, because you didn't know the answer, so as scary as I find it, I'm guessing you actually believe this stuff.

[knot]

I think my 'belief' in psychic predictions (if you want to call it belief, as I don't call it that) will end when I see that Shannon made it back alright, and I'll be more able to judge the source rather than the information.



Why don't you just end it now? There is nothing/no one that is "psychic"

[thaiboxerken]

From what she said, all three of them came true within two weeks of her having the dream.

She's probably just a liar. I'd stop being friends with her and only use her as a sex-buddy.

[Tamazon]

Does Shannon know about her impending doom? You said she dreamed about herself in a car crash but does she know about your other friend's prediction and the 2 week timeline? If she does you would think that she would refuse to drive for the next 2 weeks given that she obviously believes in all this.

[cullennz]

JP. Have you ever thought that maybe she tells you these things because (from what I can see) your gullible.

[Miss Anthrope]

She's probably just a liar. I'd stop being friends with her and only use her as a sex-buddy.

Oh, but could you imagine the drama THAT would entail? No thanks, I say stop associating with the dishonest person altogether.

ETA: Oh wait, he's gay so he has luckily dodged that bullet.

[Wheezebucket]

I'm throwing my vote in with the sex buddy option.

[JP1283]

I had a long talk with Shannon about her 'impending doom' last night. She stated that if it is meant to happen, it is meant to happen. She said that she changed the time she was going to leave so that she can drive for most of the day instead of at night, and that she's taken every precaution short of cancelling her trip, which she refuses to do. She said that the past six months have been the happiest of her life and that if she is meant to die, she will, and there's no stopping it.

I kept trying to make light of the situation to make myself feel better, but I couldn't shake the fear about her dying while I was talking with her. During the day while I'm at work, it doesn't really cross my mind (I work for a very busy surgical practice) but when I'm alone, it (and other paranormal-type fears) is all I think about.

[JP1283]

And no, I'm not making her a sex buddy. Although one time when we were drinking, I made out with her for about ten seconds in front of our friends (kind of a dare-type thing.) Needless to say, I don't care to do it again.

[thaiboxerken]

More importantly, JP. Is Shannon hot?

[JP1283]

She's pretty...but she doesn't have the body of a model or anything.

[Miss Anthrope]

She's pretty...but she doesn't have the body of a model or anything.

Good. The chances of her dying of starvation while behind the wheel or being hit on the roadside during a purge are nil.

[JP1283]

Should I be laughing at that? Cause I did a little.

[thaiboxerken]

What's her e-mail address? Does she have a myspace profile?

[JP1283]

Yes, she does, and SoapySam can verify that. However, I don't really feel comfortable giving out her MySpace page over a web forum without her permission, and I don't particularly want to ask her of it. I don't want her to know that I'm super freaked over this (although, if she is psychically gifted, she should already know I guess.) If you would like a picture of her, PM me your e-mail address.

[Jackalgirl]

I had a long talk with Shannon about her 'impending doom' last night. She stated that if it is meant to happen, it is meant to happen. She said that she changed the time she was going to leave so that she can drive for most of the day instead of at night, and that she's taken every precaution short of cancelling her trip, which she refuses to do. She said that the past six months have been the happiest of her life and that if she is meant to die, she will, and there's no stopping it.

It sounds like she is very realistic and practical. And the steps she is taking are smart: driving during the day instead of the night (unless, of course, her schedule is such that she normally sleeps during the day) is very important.

Add to that: take frequent stops to stretch your legs, make sure you're hydrated, and if you're feeling tired, pull over and rest. And, of course, no distractions in the car that'll take away from one's ability to pay attention to the road and -- most importantly -- the other idiots on the road. ; ) Sounds like she's got a good head on her shoulders.

[nails3jesus0]

Good. The chances of her dying of starvation while behind the wheel or being hit on the roadside during a purge are nil.


hahaaha.

anyway, yeah ive met a lot of people who made up paranormal things for attention. I just roll with it and pretend i believe them for entertainment. its fun to see what they come up with.

[The Atheist]

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s97/TheAtheist/troll.jpg

[Soapy Sam]

Cute kid.
Yours?

[JoeTheJuggler]

I kept trying to make light of the situation to make myself feel better, but I couldn't shake the fear about her dying while I was talking with her. During the day while I'm at work, it doesn't really cross my mind (I work for a very busy surgical practice) but when I'm alone, it (and other paranormal-type fears) is all I think about.

And you still identify yourself as a non-believer? Sure sounds like you're taking it very seriously. This is why I question your veracity. (It's a common MO with trolls on this forum--"I'm a skeptic, but how do you explain this?")

Now that you've spoken with your friend about it, are you going to use your warnings as a hedge when she doesn't die in a car wreck? In other words, the reason she survived isn't because your other friend isn't psychic, but because of the warnings you gave her?

Again, I'll gladly apologize if you come on the forum after this and say that your friend's survival is proof that psychic claims are bunk.

[JP1283]

Hi Joe,

I'm not going to use the warnings as a hedge if nothing comes of this. I will gladly say that I was being superstitious that her and Sara's claims of paranormal ability aren't real, and you can quote me on that. However, until nothing happens, I can't help but feel a little concerned for her while she is driving on the road (she should be leaving in about two hours.)

[The Atheist]

Cute kid.
Yours?

Like father, like son....

[JoeTheJuggler]

Hi Joe,

I'm not going to use the warnings as a hedge if nothing comes of this. I will gladly say that I was being superstitious that her and Sara's claims of paranormal ability aren't real, and you can quote me on that. However, until nothing happens, I can't help but feel a little concerned for her while she is driving on the road (she should be leaving in about two hours.)

That's not quite what I said, but it'll be a start.

My problem is this: you claim to be a disbeliever, but you're obviously a believer. Your other threads show that you'll believe pretty much any paranormal drivel that's told to you.

So after this episode, you'll be a disbeliever (even though you also state that you already are a disbeliever. . just one who happens to believe) in Sara's claims, but you'll still eat up any other ghost story or tall tale that comes along. . . .

[JP1283]

Shannon made it safe to Idaho today. There was apparently hardly any traffic on the road at all, and she seemed to enjoy her trip. I am very relieved that she made it safe. I'm not going to totally breathe easy though, because she still has a trip to make home on Sunday, and then the following weekend she will be driving to a city approx. 160 miles away for the weekend. After that, the two weeks will be over and I will be able to happily stick my foot in my mouth.

I guess I can't say that I'm a total disbeliever. You're right, Joe. I eat up any ghost story fed to me. I seem think that coincidences and weird things that happen (they seem to happen to me a lot) are part of some twisted, supernatural plot against me. I guess 'paranoid' is the right word to describe me. I've been extremely unhappy living this way, and when this 'prophecy' or whatever you want to call it doesn't come true, I think it's going to help me a lot to think more realistically about these claims when they are made.

[knot]

pathetic

[knot]

And no, I'm not making her a sex buddy. Although one time when we were drinking, I made out with her for about ten seconds in front of our friends (kind of a dare-type thing.) Needless to say, I don't care to do it again.

We know, you're gay. some people here have short or selective memories.

[osmosis]

Go

See

A

Psychiatrist

[JP1283]

Hi, Knot. I'd appreciate if you keep your snarky little comments to yourself. Don't think you're better than me in any respect, because you're not. And the fact that you feel you have to post those comments in someone's thread is what I would call 'pathetic.'

And that comment about selective memories? What was that about? I don't think I've broadcasted the fact that I'm gay on this site very much; in fact, I never even brought it up in this thread, someone else did. When I mentioned the part about Shannon and I, I wasn't trying to say I was gay, I was relating an experience with her. I wasn't trying to say, "Oh my god, I'm gay, don't you remember??!!" So get off your high horse.

[Senex]

I asked Sara tonight if she has had the dreams about other people; she says she hasn't, only about those that died, and that the dreams don't happen very often. She did name the specific people, all of which I didn't know. I don't remember all the names offhand (one of them was named Erik, who was her ex.) I could ask her though and find some evidence, maybe through newspapers.

It's just got me a little freaked out...my best friend tells me that she thinks she'll die in an auto accident, and then someone totally different has that dream about her after dreaming about other people in auto accidents. Should I be thinking about slashing her tires so she can't drive right about now?

I'm surprised by some of these replies. This is a skeptical site -- slash her tires and you are a criminal, a fool and a bad friend. Dreams have limited use to the dreamer and have no predictive value to third parties. I know what its like to have to spend $550 replacing four tires that were slashed and you don't smile when you write that check -- well maybe I did once...

Once I dated a divorced woman with a young daughter whose ex-husband stalked her. After our second date it was awkward if I stayed over but I was uncomfortable having her daughter see me the next morning so I thought it best I go home. I left to discover her ex-husband slashed all four of my tires and since it was 11:30PM I had no choice but stay over at his ex's home until I could call a tire shop the next morning. I wouldn't have spent the night if my car was able to get me home. He was an ass. Don't you be an ass and slash her tires. Slashing tires never is good.

[knot]

Hi, Knot. I'd appreciate if you keep your snarky little comments to yourself. Don't think you're better than me in any respect, because you're not. And the fact that you feel you have to post those comments in someone's thread is what I would call 'pathetic.'

And that comment about selective memories? What was that about? I don't think I've broadcasted the fact that I'm gay on this site very much; in fact, I never even brought it up in this thread, someone else did. When I mentioned the part about Shannon and I, I wasn't trying to say I was gay, I was relating an experience with her. I wasn't trying to say, "Oh my god, I'm gay, don't you remember??!!" So get off your high horse.


I'm not better? I'm not a dream drama queen bringing his drama over to this board - thinking about slashing someone's tires over somebody's dream - that's pathetic and criminal and............................................... ...................stupid.

When I originally said pathetic and my comments now, I mean that towards the argument.

[JP1283]

I'm not going to slash her tires. I'm too chicken to do that. Plus, if I was going to do it I would have done it already, so it's a non-issue.

And Knot, no, you're not better than an I am. Are you saying you've never done anything stupid? Or been frightened at all by anything? Please, if you're just gonna post replies here to make me look bad, don't even bother posting. I wouldn't have done the same in of your threads.

[knot]

I'm not going to slash her tires. I'm too chicken to do that. Plus, if I was going to do it I would have done it already, so it's a non-issue.

And Knot, no, you're not better than an I am. Are you saying you've never done anything stupid? Or been frightened at all by anything? Please, if you're just gonna post replies here to make me look bad, don't even bother posting. I wouldn't have done the same in of your threads.

If being "chicken" is the only reason holding you back from slashing tires then yeah, I am better than you.

I have done stupid things but I haven't even thought about the incredibly stupid things I've read in this thread.

I'm still scared of bees. (tangible)

I'm not trying to make you look bad, only your choice to believe are bad - for you and your friends. If it can drive you to think about committing a crime and to get you to "seriously freak out" then maybe you should reconsider your choice to believe in such nonsense.

[Senex]

If being "chicken" is the only reason holding you back from slashing tires then yeah, I am better than you.

I have done stupid things but I haven't even thought about the incredibly stupid things I've read in this thread.

I'm still scared of bees. (tangible)

knot, snarky is too generous a term for you. You are mean-spirited. I picked on a potential behavior I didn't approve of because of experience; you are name calling. This forum is above that. I don't believe in dreams but I will defend the right of someone to write about them without being called gay (in a bad way) or pathetic.

My excuse is I wanted to tell my little story of having my tires slashed. What excuse do you have for being an ass?


JP1283, I thought at first you were a troll, but I think now you are sincere. If you asked the same questions at a woo site you would be given suggestions that I'm sure involve throwing salt over your shoulder and similar things. I believe dreams may be beneficial to the person who has them but for no one else. I'm new to this site but I know this site isn't about being disrespectful. knot is not representative of this site.

[Tamazon]

JP, trust me when I say that your life will be much more satisfying and relaxing once you've embraced critical thinking and skepticism. Next time Sara and Shannon entertain you with their future tales of gloom and doom, you can laugh heartily and then calmly explain things to them like confirmation bias. Plus the fact that if these powers really existed Mr. Randi would be $1 million lighter.

Most people believe in this nonsense because of the warm fuzzies but it seems to me that it's causing you nothing but grief and stress.

I think some people here should be a little nicer to you. I was under the assumption that the "E" in JREF meant that we are to show the believers the errors of their ways with the use of common sense, rationality and facts. I know some people are beyond hope but you having the nerve to post here in the first place shows that you are willing to get advice from us and maybe change your views. It's pretty hard to change your entire way of thinking, but you are off to a good start, as long as you take the friendly advice offered here.

Us skeptics are always crying for evidence but if (big if) actual evidence were shoved under our noses one day, we'd likely have a hard time accepting it right away too.

[kerikiwi]

If this dream (or any other) is prophetic, there is no point taking evasive action. What is predicted will occur, will occur.

If the predicted event does not occur, the dream was not prophetic.

You would, of course, have to run a decent series of trials to demonstrate that the same is true of all predictive dreams, but that is one of the safest bets I can imagine, alongside such bets as the sun will appear tomorrow.

If the event does occur, that is no evidence that the dream was prophetic.

[knot]

knot, snarky is too generous a term for you. You are mean-spirited. I picked on a potential behavior I didn't approve of because of experience; you are name calling. This forum is above that. I don't believe in dreams but I will defend the right of someone to write about them without being called gay (in a bad way) or pathetic.

My excuse is I wanted to tell my little story of having my tires slashed. What excuse do you have for being an ass?


JP1283, I thought at first you were a troll, but I think now you are sincere. If you asked the same questions at a woo site you would be given suggestions that I'm sure involve throwing salt over your shoulder and similar things. I believe dreams may be beneficial to the person who has them but for no one else. I'm new to this site but I know this site isn't about being disrespectful. knot is not representative of this site.

I never said gay was bad - just reminding others that he wasn't interested in a "sex buddy" with a girl. Doesn't that make any freaking sense to you at all? Perhaps the word, "gay" is a mean spirited word in your book.

Thinking about slashing someone's tires, no matter the reason, is mean spirited and CRIMINAL and PATHETIC. Get real.

I think it is abundantly clear who the ass is. Yeah sure, pick on me when others tell the drama queen to go see a psychiatrist. You SEEM about as foolish as him.

[Senex]

I think it is abundantly clear who the ass is.

I think so as well.

[knot]

uh huh, go ahead and stick up for the criminal minded drama queen. It's never ok to even consider slashing/destroying someone's property (asinine)

You're right though, when it comes to some thought inducing criminal behavior or consideration, a "snarky" remark isn't strong enough.

[Senex]

uh huh, go ahead and stick up for the criminal minded drama queen. It's never ok to even consider slashing/destroying someone's property (asinine)

You're right though, when it comes to some thought inducing criminal behavior or consideration, a "snarky" remark isn't strong enough.

knot, you have anger you need to find an appropriate place for. I'm guilty of occasionally misplacing anger on the Internet, but you must admit you are over the top wrong on this thread. JP1283 may be naive but attacking her personally is wrong. Attack what she writes, but don't call her names.

[knot]

knot, you have anger you need to find an appropriate place for. I'm guilty of occasionally misplacing anger on the Internet, but you must admit you are over the top wrong on this thread. JP1283 may be naive but attacking her personally is wrong. Attack what she writes, but don't call her names.

You really are a case huh. Who said you can act like a mod?

I'm not attacking "her", just her beliefs leading to consider a criminal action. It's pathetic, foolish, criminal and did I say stupid? I'm done with your nonsense. You are set to be ignored so don't bother responding.

..and if he is a she they have a word created just to describe such an orientation for a woman: lesbian

[osmosis]

I think it is abundantly clear who the ass is. Yeah sure, pick on me when others tell the drama queen to go see a psychiatrist. You SEEM about as foolish as him.

I've never told anyone to go see a shrink to impugn them or hurt their feelings, only when they seem to need professional help. I believe he does, and if you'd read the whole thread you'd see my brief explanation why.

Personally, I agree with you that he's a drama queen, but you didn't see me calling him that publicly in a diminutive way, as you appear to have.

Knot, you are kinda mean-spirited.

[knot]

I've never told anyone to go see a shrink to impugn them or hurt their feelings, only when they seem to need professional help. I believe he does, and if you'd read the whole thread you'd see my brief explanation why.

Personally, I agree with you that he's a drama queen, but you didn't see me calling him that publicly in a diminutive way, as you appear to have.

Knot, you are kinda mean-spirited.

I will tell a potential tire slasher/property destroyer (criminal) exactly what I think.

I think some of us know what the spaces imply so stop pretending to be i-n-n-o-c-e-n-t:

Go

See

A

Psychiatrist

[Wheezebucket]

Got ourselves a little forum version of the punisher here, eh? Tire slasher! Wipe out all crime!!

[knot]

Yes, I did have my tires slashed by some idiot at one time. The whole neighborhood had their tires slashed. Rather than the Punisher how about the Boondock Saints!!!!!

[politas]

Shannon made it safe to Idaho today. There was apparently hardly any traffic on the road at all, and she seemed to enjoy her trip. I am very relieved that she made it safe. I'm not going to totally breathe easy though, because she still has a trip to make home on Sunday, and then the following weekend she will be driving to a city approx. 160 miles away for the weekend. After that, the two weeks will be over and I will be able to happily stick my foot in my mouth.

I guess I can't say that I'm a total disbeliever. You're right, Joe. I eat up any ghost story fed to me. I seem think that coincidences and weird things that happen (they seem to happen to me a lot) are part of some twisted, supernatural plot against me. I guess 'paranoid' is the right word to describe me. I've been extremely unhappy living this way, and when this 'prophecy' or whatever you want to call it doesn't come true, I think it's going to help me a lot to think more realistically about these claims when they are made.
If you want to believe that dreams have power, consider this:

You can quite easily have a dream about things that never happened, which your conscious mind will think is a memory of the past.

I have a quite clear memory from my childhood of a wardrobe filled with identical stuffed animals. The wardrobe (and the stuffed animals) never existed. (Well, one stuffed animal like the ones in the dream did exist, but I got it years after the time that the memory says I had the wardrobe filed with them.

What happened was: I had a dream which did't fit reality. My brain, trying to reconcile this image, placed it in a hazy section of history.

Your friend Sarah, on hearing of her friends' deaths, might have had a similar false correlation happen in her mind, assigning an identity to a previously anonymous dream death, or she might have dreamed afterwards of remembering a dream upon hearing about the death, and have that dream replace the actual memory.

Our minds are not very good at distinguishing dream from reality.

[osmosis]

I will tell a potential tire slasher/property destroyer (criminal) exactly what I think.

Good for you. At least we know you're not just pretending.

I think some of us know what the spaces imply so stop pretending to be i-n-n-o-c-e-n-t:

What the "spaces" imply? Now you've lost me. I suspect, however, that whatever you've inferred has more to do with your own state of mind than with anything I've supposedly implied.

[knot]

Good for you. At least we know you're not just pretending.



What the "spaces" imply? Now you've lost me. I suspect, however, that whatever you've inferred has more to do with your own state of mind than with anything I've supposedly implied.


Riiiiiiiiight! don't insult my intelligence. Shall we go through your posts and see how many times you've posted as such? (below)

Maybe


You

Need

A

Shrink


Too!


-Edit - could not find any. Care to explain? Never mind, I already know


But found this. What's this, name calling? tsk tsk


Jerk.


kthanksbye

[The Atheist]

One quick point here. Why is someone getting worried about being mean-spirited to a troll?

We're not talking about some thinking, feeling person. This is clearly a troll, check its other threads before you start beating each other up. The guy who thinks the troll is sincere is just a little misguided and trying to be a nice guy/ette.

There are plenty of things worth fighting about. A troll isn't one of them.

[knot]

One quick point here. Why is someone getting worried about being mean-spirited to a troll?

We're not talking about some thinking, feeling person. This is clearly a troll, check its other threads before you start beating each other up. The guy who thinks the troll is sincere is just a little misguided and trying to be a nice guy/ette.

There are plenty of things worth fighting about. A troll isn't one of them.

I'm not worried. It's just that you're the first person to back me up among some that want to wear kid gloves. Like I said, I'm not pretending. I don't tolerate the consideration of slashing tires well at all. In my book a person is a complete idiot for that.

LMAO, he said, "it"

[osmosis]

Riiiiiiiiight! don't insult my intelligence.

Did it ever occur to you that some people DO need professional help, and that suggesting they get it isn't a gratuitous insult?

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, we're talking about someone who has delusions, panic attacks and obsessive-compulsive disorder. In my book, that's more than enough reason to start seeing a psychiatrist.

I don't believe I insulted your so-called intelligence.

[osmosis]

One quick point here. Why is someone getting worried about being mean-spirited to a troll?

I disagree. He's not a troll he's just very, very disturbed.

[knot]

Did it ever occur to you that some people DO need professional help, and that suggesting they get it isn't a gratuitous insult?

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, we're talking about someone who has delusions, panic attacks and obsessive-compulsive disorder. In my book, that's more than enough reason to start seeing a psychiatrist.

I don't believe I insulted your so-called intelligence.


Don't

Mistake

Me

For

A

Fool

I know better. This form of post is condescending. Don't lie. kthanksbye

[JP1283]

Knot, I think you're being a little dramatic yourself by calling me a criminal just for even having the thought of slashing her tires. Have you ever thought about doing something bad? Does that make you a criminal? I think not.

By the way, your posts come across as having come from a fifteen-year-old girl.

The Atheist, I'm not a troll. I don't know how many times I can say that. But I'm not going to try to get that point across anymore. I will say it just once more...I'm not a troll. You may have your own opinions about the events I have been through, but my posts are not meant to prove anything one way or the other or to spam this board. I've tried to be sincere, and I'm sorry that there are posters here who believe I have some sort of agenda.

[knot]

buh bye drama queen (http://wilstar.com/midi/twilzone.wav)

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/6928/freakcc6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[osmosis]

Don't

Mistake

Me

For

A

Fool

I know better. This form of post is condescending. Don't lie. kthanksbye

Did it ever occur to you, oh great and highly intelligent one, that that's only one of several possible interpretations?

[nails3jesus0]

uh huh, go ahead and stick up for the criminal minded drama queen. It's never ok to even consider slashing/destroying someone's property (asinine)

I think its ok, because its obvious the thought came about out of concern for the safety of another person. and nothing criminal actually happened. i dont understand why you are so angry.


You're right though, when it comes to some thought inducing criminal behavior or consideration, a "snarky" remark isn't strong enough.


I'll admit that I have stolen the keys of people who have been extremely drunk and were still planning to drive home. I gave them back, but it was still stealing, and i did it out of concern. flame away i guess!

[stormer]

Why would I post that Shannon died on her trip if it wasn't true? I don't know how many times I can I say I'm not here to prove anything; I'm not rying to prove that Shannon is psychic; it's not my agenda at all. I posted because I thought maybe I get some help with this irrational fear of her dying in a car accident, not so I could say "I told you so."

..snip



I thought Sara was the one with psychic dreams?

[Oualawouzou]

Knot, I think you're being a little dramatic yourself by calling me a criminal just for even having the thought of slashing her tires. Have you ever thought about doing something bad? Does that make you a criminal? I think not.


Shhh! Not so loud! You don't want Dustin to hear you... :duck:

[Ryan O'Dine]

I think it’s a legitimate to ask how one is to distinguish a common troll from a psychologically disturbed person.

Sometimes trolling is pretty obvious (like the Pakistani homeopathy spammers of yore). Sometimes, not so much. It seems to me that when confronted with that vast grey area of uncertainly, the most reasonable procedure is to assume genuine psychological problems. The worst you’ll get is to look like a fool in the face of a troll. So what? The worst you get by assuming the opposite is to look real “cool” while ragging on someone with serious psychological issues. Personally, I'd rather risk looking a fool than actually being one.

So here’s my advice to JP1283:

You’ve mentioned specific psychological problems (OCD, etc.). You’ve mentioned you have a therapist. Considering the consistency of your posting on these boards expressing fear, it’s pretty clear your therapist isn’t doing right by you.

Sometimes a person has to take the responsibility of their medical treatment into their own hands. For instance, if a therapist isn’t helping, you have to insist they change tactics. You don’t have to be confrontative, but you do have to stick to your guns. People in the medical field often “anchor” themselves to a diagnosis or way of proceeding, and make other cognitive errors that need to be corrected. At these times, it’s up to the patient to be their own best advocate. You need to ask the therapist questions like “Are there other options for me,” and, “If this doesn’t work, what’s the next step,” and, “How is my progress being monitored.” Most of all, you have to tell them truthfully if you think you aren’t being served well by current practice. The medical field is full of intimidating people with impressive degrees, but ultimately it’s up to the patient to ensure they’re being led down the right track.

Skepticism can only get you so far. It doesn’t cure faulty brain chemistry. The drumbeat of this thread should be “lean on your therapist to make a difference.” Clearly they need to be pressed to do better. Unfortunately, it’s entirely up to you to do the pressing. Fortunately, when a patient stands up for themselves, they often get results.

[Steven Howard]

I thought Sara was the one with psychic dreams?

Sara had the dreams, Shannon just had the "feeling" that she might die in a car wreck. Shannon was also the name of the friend who used telepathy to cheat at Trivial Pursuit, in an earlier thread.

I still don't know if JP is messing with us, or if JP's "friends" are messing with him.

[thaiboxerken]

I thought Sara was the one with psychic dreams?

He must've gotten the notes mixed up on his story.

[Senex]

Originally Posted by The Atheist
One quick point here. Why is someone getting worried about being mean-spirited to a troll?

We're not talking about some thinking, feeling person. This is clearly a troll, check its other threads before you start beating each other up. The guy who thinks the troll is sincere is just a little misguided and trying to be a nice guy/ette.

There are plenty of things worth fighting about. A troll isn't one of them.

I'm not worried. It's just that you're the first person to back me up among some that want to wear kid gloves. Like I said, I'm not pretending. I don't tolerate the consideration of slashing tires well at all. In my book a person is a complete idiot for that.

LMAO, he said, "it"

I'm not LMAO, but I'm certain The Atheist was being sarcastic. Being nice is what I believe you should default to when in doubt. Maybe JP is a guy and I'm clueless (I'm often clueless). I love a good argument as much as the next person but I believe in civility.

[thaiboxerken]

Nice guys finish last. People like JP need to be punished into thinking rationally. Where's my asp?

[knot]

Nice guys finish last. People like JP need to be punished into thinking rationally. Where's my asp?

lol :p especially the foolish ones.

[JP1283]

I should have written that I'm not trying to prove that Shannon or Sara is psychic; forgive me for leaving a name out. Since the thread is about Shannon, I guess I focused on her. I wasn't changing my story or "mixing up the notes" as Thai put it.

Thai, I think it says a lot about a person who uses punishment to accomplish anything, especially when the person you're punishing hasn't done anything to deserve punishment.

Knot, do you think it makes you look cool to rag on someone on a message board? It doesn't.

[thaiboxerken]

Oh, I think you beg for punishment with your threads.

[Senex]

Oh, I think you beg for punishment with your threads.

If only I knew JP was a girl I would recommend spanking. Spanking works! (at least for me ;) )

[JP1283]

Oh, I think you beg for punishment with your threads.

So posting about something that is frightening to me is deserving of punishment? Where is the sense in that?