Could Use a Hand

[DrDisco]

I hope this request does not violate any rules..if it does I apologize in advance!

However, for months and months another board I visit has been bombarded by a 9-11 conspiracy theorist and, frankly, the board isn't really populated with the technical experts to refute him as do exist here. So, he basically goes unchallenged (to a greater or lesser degree) and other members have taken to merely trying to derail his threads by responding with topics regarding favorite meals or sports shows.

If anyone here has the time to register and visit http://www.orangemane.com/BB/index.php (a discussion board for fans of Denver Broncos football), then specifically head to the War, Religion and Politics Thread (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/forumdisplay.php?f=25) to confront a gentleman named "mhgaffney", it'd be most appreciated by the members of that board. His latest two threads have been titled "http://www.orangemane.com/BB/images/misc/paperclip.gif (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/forumdisplay.php?f=25#) a psychiatrist speaks out about 9/11 (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=56269)" which quotes from an article in part, "Anyone who has studied 9-11 at all knows it was an inside job." mhgaffney's own comments in this thread:

Sir, here some facts that maybe you didn't know.

According to US law, to qualify for a pilot's license in the US a person must speak and write English.

Hani Hanjour, who supposedly flew Flight 77 into the pentagon, could do neither. When Hani showed up at an airport in Bowie Maryland one month before September 11 to rent a Cessna -- he could barely communicate with the woman at the front desk. She later stated she was incredulous to learn he had a pilot's license.

The airport has a policy: they require a simple flight test before they will rent a plane. But Hani flunked this test so bad they told him -- "Don't even bother to come back..."

In short, Hani couldn't even fly a Cessna, which is the simplest plane to fly in existence. Yet, according to the official 9/11 story this incompetent not only flew Flight 77 -- he did a top gunn maneuver -- spiraling down 7,000 feet in elevation, then a final approach just a few feet off the ground.

So, which is the "highly improbable lie"? Obviously, the official story.

Next time do some homework BEFORE you start throwing insults.

His other newest thread, "Did the US Military fudge the 9/11 timeline? (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=56227)" asserts in part, "In a recent article, I presented compelling evidence that an E-4B, the US military's most advanced command and control platform, circled over the White House at the time of the September 11, 2001 attack. Officially known as the National Emergency Airborne Command Post (NEACP, pronounced knee-cap), the E-4B's more common name is the "doomsday" plane. This paper will expand that discussion and will ultimately argue that the US military fudged the time of the pentagon crash to conceal the presence of the E-4B."

mhgaffney's real name is Mark H. Gaffney and he publishes his work on Rense. Pehaps some of you have heard of him?

At any rate, if you have the time and the inclination, we'd appreciate your expertise on our board.

[kookbreaker]

For the Hani stuff, you might point out that the troothers forget he was working on this pilot stuff for almost 5 years.

http://www.911myths.com/html/flight_school_dropouts.html

The final dive was nothing special. Hardly what one would call a 'Top Gun' manuever.

Same old mythmaking.

[beachnut]

I hope this request does not violate any rules..if it does I apologize in advance!

However, for months and months another board I visit has been bombarded by a 9-11 conspiracy theorist and, frankly, the board isn't really populated with the technical experts to refute him as do exist here. So, he basically goes unchallenged (to a greater or lesser degree) and other members have taken to merely trying to derail his threads by responding with topics regarding favorite meals or sports shows.

If anyone here has the time to register and visit http://www.orangemane.com/BB/index.php (a discussion board for fans of Denver Broncos football), then specifically head to the War, Religion and Politics Thread (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/forumdisplay.php?f=25) to confront a gentleman named "mhgaffney", it'd be most appreciated by the members of that board. His latest two threads have been titled "http://www.orangemane.com/BB/images/misc/paperclip.gif (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/forumdisplay.php?f=25#) a psychiatrist speaks out about 9/11 (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=56269)" which quotes from an article in part, "Anyone who has studied 9-11 at all knows it was an inside job." mhgaffney's own comments in this thread:



His other newest thread, "Did the US Military fudge the 9/11 timeline? (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=56227)" asserts in part, "In a recent article, I presented compelling evidence that an E-4B, the US military's most advanced command and control platform, circled over the White House at the time of the September 11, 2001 attack. Officially known as the National Emergency Airborne Command Post (NEACP, pronounced knee-cap), the E-4B's more common name is the "doomsday" plane. This paper will expand that discussion and will ultimately argue that the US military fudged the time of the pentagon crash to conceal the presence of the E-4B."

mhgaffney's real name is Mark H. Gaffney and he publishes his work on Rense. Pehaps some of you have heard of him?

At any rate, if you have the time and the inclination, we'd appreciate your expertise on our board.
There is an interview with the instructor who flew with Hani when they would not let him rent the plane solo. With more instruction Hani may of been allowed to rent. But the instructor said he had no doubt Hani could fly the jet into a building.

Yes you have to read and write English. But the terms used to fly are standard. All you have to do is understand flying terms and talk to ATC using standard phraseology. Hani got his FAA ticket to fly, it cost money, he when through the training and did it.

Hani’s lack of skills to be a great pilot did not stop him from flying. The turn from 7000 feet to line up with the Pentagon was a huge turn done at 325 mph, a speed the plane loves to fly at. He used bank angles of 30 degrees or less, just like on a commercial airline flight we all are familiar with. There were no TopGun stuff. The truth is any kid off the street could hit the pentagon without training if they could see out the window. Flying is easy and like steering a bike or a car, with some up and down added.

I doubt Hani cared if they let him rent the plane, he was able to line up with the runway and point the plane. The skill to ram a building is not a great skill if you want to land. Lining up for landing is easy, landing and waking away without damage to yourself and the plane is not as easy. Hani was most likely working on his aiming skills. WHY?

Hani did not need to talk to anyone when he hijacked the plane, did he? Hani did not need to land the plane, did he? Hani needed to practice flying, just lining up with the runway getting close enough to hit. The time he spent flying was perfect for working on his AIM Point. The spot out the window that does not move is where you will hit. He was going for practice, even more proof of a terror plot.

The facts point to these guys were prepared to fly the 757/767, that is how some of them knew to turn off the Transponder. They had four pilots, they all had FAA tickets to be pilots. They studied the planes they were going to hijack. They knew how to tune in radio navigation aids, because they learned how to when they learned to fly. They had easy targets, large and hard to miss. All 77 had to do was to fly toward the arrow pointing to DCA, the VOR at Reagan Airport next to the Pentagon. He was flying the wrong direction at first but turned east and then followed the arrow, easier than driving a car.

The people who bring up Hani as the smoking gun, are not very smart. The argument that Hani could not do it are false, due to the fact Hani did do. But more to the point, anyone off the street with no training that can ride a bike or drive a car, or play a video game could fly a jet, it is easier than the Cessna he was having problems with. The biggest thing Hani did that other pilots rarely do, he push the throttle up all the way and over-speed the plane, the max speed for the plane was 350KCAS, he was doing over 463KIAS, and it did not matter since it was the planes last flight minor damage due to an over-speed did not matter. There are issues flying too fast for the Aircraft design, but he was not but trying to hit a building at that time and some of the issues for flying too fast would not have a great impact on flying straight into a building.

The reason the ATC people thought 77 was a military plane was it’s speed, the controllers rarely see on their scope a plane doing more than 200 mph, 325 mph is too fast due to the speed restriction of 250KIAS below 10,000 feet, 77 was doing 300KIAS. The big turn on the radar screen at 300 KIAS meant 77 was moving 50 percent faster than the approach speeds the controllers are use to. But there were no TopGun maneuvers on 9/11 by any of the terrorist.

[DrDisco]

Thanks, guys. I've posted the link to the "drop out pilots" on the forum. No idea if he'll read it.

I've also invited him over here, but don't think he'll take the bait. I've laid it out for him before and don't think he accepted the invitation.

[Dumb All Over]

I'm more of a Broncos fan than I am a CT debunker. So I checked out the site to offer help. When I tried to register, I got this message--

"Sorry, registration has been disabled by the administrator."

[DrDisco]

That's weird, DAO. I logged out and then tried to register and I got the same message. I'll email the forum master and ask him what's up.

By the way, you'll like for the Bronco's talk more than the conspiracy theories...but this Mark guy is quite the character.

[CptColumbo]

I wonder if the "twoofer" who visits the site goes back to a CT site and brags about how he "totally pwned" the Bronco's site.

[slingblade]

Trust me; it's not been much of a feat to pwn the Broncos in many of the last few years. ;)

I miss the Glory Days. Sigh.

[DrDisco]

I wonder if the "twoofer" who visits the site goes back to a CT site and brags about how he "totally pwned" the Bronco's site.

That's one of the things that bugs me. You can always find a "big fish" in a small pond. Find some hardcore Creationist, for example, who is familiar with all the pseduo-lingo and set him in a forum discussing flower arranging and he's going to "pwn" anyone and everyone there in all likelihood. Some of the guys on the Bronco site handle him pretty well but not well enough to send him packing (for example, he wouldn't last more than a few weeks --at best-- here).

I got interested in the topic when my brother brought it up over the Christmas holidays and I've since learned he's a big fan of this Rense website and of LooseChange. Scares the **** out of me. That's how I found you folks. And, after reading through these forums, I quickly found how much knowledge there is here to dismantle the average conspiracy theorist (and the not so average!). That's why I came to solicit some help for my friends over at the Bronco's board. We sure could use a clean up over there, Isle 6.

[DrDisco]

I miss the Glory Days. Sigh.

They're comin' again!

It's been a conspiracy since Elway left, I tell ya. :D

[NoZed Avenger]

They're comin' again!

It's been a conspiracy since Elway left, I tell ya. :D

Faster than freefall!! Demolition!!


Space lasers!!!!










Ok. The freefall thing was a cheap shot.

[T.A.M.]

DrDisco:

Based on my solid year (almost) at this stuff...here is some advice:

Give up trying to convince this truther guy. You will not likely ever convince him of reality through debating him. If he is as you say, he is likely already lost.

focus, instead, on the other people at your forum exposed you his shaite. Learn all you can, gather info and links, and when he brings up a point you know he is wrong on, correct him on it, in front of the others (ie in a popular thread) and then post a link that the others can go to to get more info on the topic.

TAM:)

[LashL]

<snip>
mhgaffney's real name is Mark H. Gaffney and he publishes his work on Rense. Pehaps some of you have heard of him?


Is this him?

http://www.gnosticsecrets.com/pages/bio.htm

http://www.gnosticsecrets.com/pages/links.htm

[T.A.M.]

OMG...

I am sorry, I love peace, and nature, but is there a single truther over 40 who is not a sandle wearing, backpack hauling, dandelion loving, 1960's throwback?

TAM;)

[DrDisco]

Is this him?

http://www.gnosticsecrets.com/pages/bio.htm

http://www.gnosticsecrets.com/pages/links.htm

That's him!

[jackchit]

:confused:

[Newtons Bit]

OMG...

I am sorry, I love peace, and nature, but is there a single truther over 40 who is not a sandle wearing, backpack hauling, dandelion loving, 1960's throwback?

TAM;)

I'm a sandle wearing and backpacking hauler... but... I'm not a hippie? I just like climbing and hiking.

[CptColumbo]

Some people just don't understand the appeal.
WaKAMhNty68
Ironically, I believe they won the Super Bowl the next season, under the new ownership.

[T.A.M.]

I'm a sandle wearing and backpacking hauler... but... I'm not a hippie? I just like climbing and hiking.

yaya...you know the type I'm talkin about though...lol

TAM;)

[Horatius]

:confused:

Hey! I thought you thought you were banned here (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8672&view=findpost&p=13470805)!


Any chance you'll admit your error?