The Department of Positive Out of Body Possibilities

[Tim4848]

To whom it may concern,

My name is Tim Brewer, and you can find out all about this topic by checking it out on the INTERNET, under the name of this topic. After you do that,


Please feel free to make comments or ask questions about the topic; that is the sole purpose of this post, to interact more about it.


Thank you,
Tim

[Tanstaafl]

Ah! I was wrong!


But I'm still confused. Communicate with future out of body people?

I have no idea what this means, but I'm starting to be intruiged.

[wollery]

One question.

What the heck is electrical thought?

[Tim4848]

Dear Tanstaafl,

Everything in life takes it's allotted amount of time, and this topic is no different.

Let me give you the quick version.

They say that ten percent of people will have an OBE at some point in their lifetime. My goal is to try and get people you up to speed on all the positive possibilities of exploring this topic even closer, maybe even to the point that it will help our economy in years to come.

Imagine that your life and experiences so far, was no bigger than a leaf at the end of a branch on a big tree. Now also imagine that my experiences are no bigger than another branch on the other side of the tree, now we need to bond, and get over the comprehend thing. I want us to start to see what can happen when you place Christmas lights all over the tree.

I am only as good as the people I have to work with, and I hope that is you.

Thank you,
Tim

[Tim4848]

Good question Wollery and athon,

Even though Scientist do not know what is in electric, we all function with electrical thought. I love to visualize solutions with my right brain, and analyze results and ask more questions with my left brain.

Scientist claim, that energy can not be made, or destroyed, it can only change form.

I will be glad to slow down and go over everything line by line with you, but I also want you to know, that I posted on other sites today how you could win the million dollar challenge, so if that kind of thing interests you, I just thought you would like to know.

Thank you,
Tim

[Tim4848]

Good question Strimmer, I would be more than glad to post my topic about winning the million-dollar challenge if you like, but that is up to you.

I am not here to assume what happens to you in an OBE state, that will come in time when we communicate with future out of body people.

I am saying that I was still having the same electrical thoughts in my OBE, as I have when I am in my human body, and if we know that we have a machine like brainGate, that has prove it can communicate with electrical thought, then why not try that option.

we already have patients for the machine, we already have a working machine, and we know that we Will not live forever, so why not planned for the possibility.
If out of body afterlife people are capable of going to a sensor, and communicating just like I am now, then the economy would have no choice, but to grow on the potential volume alone.

Example: You might have a cell phone provider now, in the future you might have an afterlife time share communication provider.

They say on average, that 250,000 people die everyday on this earth, even if we waited 150 years to get this technology started, we would have to have a network in place to handle billions.

Some patients have already been trained on this Brain Gate machine, and have died of other reasons, not associated with the machine, but do you really think they thought outside of the box,. that somebody who has already been trained on this machine, just might of wanted one more chance after they died.

Thank you,
Tim

[Apathia]

Tim,

You can't post links yet, so I hope you don't mind.

http://brainmeta.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=17291

Another: http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?showtopic=2271987
(Some neat responses at the SciFi Forums.)

[Oualawouzou]

6 posts and I *still* can't tell what you're talking about...

How about a clear and concise post, of the form "this is what I can do, this is how I can prove the success of it"?

[EHLO]

Seriously Tim, if you could demonstrably distinguish between and OBE and a dream or hallucination then you could easily snap up the million dollar prize and use it to monopolise Brain Gate technology and become the Bill Gates of afterlife time share communication provision.

So, step 1: Demonstrate OBE as a *real* (ie. consciousness leaving the body) phenomena.

[Tim4848]

Dear Hyparxis,

Please fill free to check me out this week, I am usually off work on Sunday and Monday, but I try and answer as many questions as I can, even through the week. If it is a good question, I sleep on it until the week end and try and answer it better at that time.

You should check out the Museum of Hoaxes, they are real tough on me there.

Thank you,
Tim

[athon]

Even though Scientist do not know what is in electric, we all function with electrical thought..

We know quite well what electricity is. It's the movement of a charge through a medium. That's more or less what I was saying before; science is the process of working through the sort of questions you're proposing. While your inquiry is a good one, you do need to pay attention to the ground others have already covered.

Secondly, our nervous system does communicate through 'waves' of moving charges (also known as an action potential). A little different to what people normally call 'electricity', as such, which is normally what we describe the movement of electrons through a conductor.

I will be glad to slow down and go over everything line by line with you, but I also want you to know, that I posted on other sites today how you could win the million dollar challenge, so if that kind of thing interests you, I just thought you would like to know.

We always like discussing things like this, but only if you're prepared to make this a two way discourse, and are willing to understand that many people here have a good understanding of science.

I am saying that I was still having the same electrical thoughts in my OBE, as I have when I am in my human body, and if we know that we have a machine like brainGate, that has prove it can communicate with electrical thought, then why not try that option.

From what you say here, you're starting with the assumption that an OBE is just that; something that occurs when the mind no longer occurs within the physical confines of a body. Hence to go further, the validity of this assumption must be addressed.

This is the core of your claim, I feel. Not the question of potentially communicating with future OBE's (it's called 'begging the question').

Athon

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

OBEs are a fascinating subject. That said, all we have to think about them are mere anecdotes. There is not a single piece of data, much less scientifical evidence to support the phenomenon as real (in the sense of something like a "self" that is able to perceive and exist in a different place than a brain).

Sorry.

[Tim4848]

Dear Ehlo, I am spilling my guts over here, the least you can do is tell us about your interest. I am one of the one percent that can beat Chess Master.

I have beaten a state champion at pool many times, and I love to analyze the game.

All my thoughts come to me natural, I don't even know my moms phone number, but I know how to get it.

I once was Vice President for a Financial company, before leaving to focus on this topic. Now I have a job that I don't have to take home with me.

I believe that most movies try to teach you something, and if you have watched as many movies as I have, you start to connect the dots, and that is where my this topic could begin.

I was told last week by my parents that I had past out, when I was only one week old. I do not know if that was an OBE or not, we will probably never know.

i love to doodle with straight lines going toward the north, seeing shadows along th lines, because I am not wearing my glasses, drawing inside those lines, until I have covered the entire piece of paper with straight line doodling, then I like to look at the 3-d pictures inside my doodling. I don't know if I explained that well, you really should see some of the drawings.

Ever since I started this quest, I try and write down as many thoughts as I can on this topic. I could go on for ever.

Question:

If I ran a car into the side of another web site for example, and then I came over to your web site, and told you about it, should I have to drive a car into your web site as well, when you could have just as easy went over to that other site and check out the damage. This topic has been down the street a few times, and now it needs to try out the highway.

I believe I am an introvert, but I also believe this topic is too important, to keep hidden in the closet any longer.

Thomas Edison believed it was possible, but he would not build anything unless he could sell it. My goal is to sell it, because most people think th worst, so it is only natural hat they would see potential negative in my topic, but if they take the time to explore it, they will surely find, this is the right direction to go at this point in our history.

Thank you for listening to my thoughts,
Tim

[Apathia]

Dear Hyparxis,

Please fill free to check me out this week, I am usually off work on Sunday and Monday, but I try and answer as many questions as I can, even through the week. If it is a good question, I sleep on it until the week end and try and answer it better at that time.

You should check out the Museum of Hoaxes, they are real tough on me there.

Thank you,
Tim

As one of ours would say, "Interesting."
http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/forums/viewthread/3528/

[Tim4848]

Scientist do not know what is inside electric, and electric is an energy that can not be made or destroyed, it can only change form, do you remember when you was just a sperm, I'm thinking changes energy then. OBE, I am thinking change energy here. Wet dream, not focus on my energy at the time, and we didn't talk about that either.

Thank you,
Tim

[athon]

Scientist do not know what is inside electric, and electric is an energy that can not be made or destroyed, it can only change form, do you remember when you was just a sperm, I'm thinking changes energy then. OBE, I am thinking change energy here. Wet dream, not focus on my energy at the time, and we didn't talk about that either.

Thank you,
Tim

Can ask if English is your first language? I'm not saying that to be rude, however your communication is proving difficult to understand.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'inside' electricity. Energy is a description of the capacity something has to do work. In other words, it's what makes things happen. It's not a 'thing' as such, but rather a measurement of change, if you like. Hence there is no 'inside' of electricty; electricty is the term given to the movement of a charge. It describes that change, of charges going from one place to another.

At this point I think you don't really understand the concept of energy, and are using what little you do know to speculate.

You say you worked in finance. Well, it's a bit like a child speculating on the fact it could buy a house in two weeks with his five-dollar a week pocket money, thinking it has a strong understanding of finance. You'd do your best to explain how finance works.

Well, your understanding of science is a bit like a five year old's understanding of how an economy works.

Athon

[EHLO]

Hi Tim, we all have our delusions - mine was thinking that I could understand what you were on about. I see now that I was mistaken.

Good luck with your quest.

[Apathia]

Tim,

I've read your posts over at Museum of Hoaxes.
I'm going to make a friendly suggestion:
You need some Science understanding under your belt. Back up and bone up on some General Physics. You are having a fundamental misunderstanding of what Brain Gate does and proposes to do.

Your previous post shows a fundamental ignorance about electricity as well.
So much so that I'm tempted to think that you are just spamming and trolling.

Anyway, I've said my thing. I won't nag you from here on. Others will do that.

[Tim4848]

Good question Bodhi Dharma Zen.

Let's check out the crime scene for a minute.

Any machine used, while they are having an OBE, shows that their brain is not having any electrical activity.

All OBE people, 100%, that they are having electrical thoughts or dreams about OBE's.

What is the odds that so many Near death experience people, all would have the same dream, when in that state, that would almost be as over whelming as every man, having wet dreams, when puberty hits.

Where could this electrical thought be hiding at?, well let's try the invisible force.

How could it survive? How does a micro like SARS11 survive?, on the electric in atoms.

Why has nobody ever noticed them before? Einstein noticed them, but he was not willing to throw the dice where the dice always go, when it pertains to free will. OBE people would have he same capabilities as those atom that did not behave the way Einstein believed they should.

They say that everything has been said before, but I am the first person to ever post this topic before, so it is just as possible, that this topic has not really got the full treatment of what goes around comes around yet.

How can you get evidence, when you don't get the patient the correct test to begin with.
If they want a sample, like they do with every other study, then they need to put the correct tools in place.

You can build the best stress test in the world, but you won't get results, until the patient starts running.


Thank you for listening to my thoughts,
Tim

[Tim4848]

Good thoughts athon,

Where do you get your fact, that there is no inside to electric. I would like to see that information for my self. Who through out history has prov-en that there is nothing inside electricity. Life and electric is best described by movement, and all things on earth is made up of electric. Your electrical thoughts is always trying to take you away from perceived pain, such as my topic, to expected pleasure, from the way you were brought up.

Thank you,
Tim

[Tim4848]

Please fill free to explain why you do not believe BrainGate will work.

That is like saying, if you don't know everything, you will never be able to create a new vacuum cleaner atachment.

My goal is not to be to good in any field, because that is not my position in this field, but to be a consultant. I do the one percent inspiration, and others make it happen. This is also another area that will help the economy as well.

Just think about all the policies and procedures that would have to go into place, before the first privledge out of body afterlife connection is made.

You know, even though I live in Dayton the home of the Wright Brothers, I am still amazed, when I see this big plane fly over my head.

Thank you for your input,
Tim




Thank you,
Tim

[Skeptic Guy]

"The Department of Positive Out of Body Possibilities"?

Down the hall, make a right, 100 feet and it's right next door to the "Ministry of Silly Walks".

Good day!

Serioulsy though, you realize that there is no evidence of "OBE"s, right? I think you would have to show evidence of that before going any further.

And perhaps you can show where you got this data?


All OBE people, 100%, that they are having electrical thoughts or dreams about OBE's.

[strimmer]

Now i am still not sure how this out of body experience machine is supposed to work, but i have a hunch that it doesn't.

tim4848 have you had any successful tests with his machine???

to my knowledge studys on out of body experience have come up with nothing, which would be expected because evidence shows that there is no out of body conciseness.

tim4848 you have put a lot on your plate. for your machine to work you would have to explain a lot of things. the dualist nature of reality, how ones out of body thoughts can communicate with another from the past present or future, and how your going to be able to communicate all these through a machine

[EHLO]

Tim, BrainGate is a *real* technology that demonstrably works as a (basic) neural interface for *real* people.

You are speculating that;

OBEs and NDEs are *real*
During an OBE/NDE the subject still exhibits neural activity and
Brain Gate could detect this activity and act as a communication device.


Your problems start at 1.


(Yes I do have better things to do)

[wollery]

Any machine used, while they are having an OBE, shows that their brain is not having any electrical activity.Evidence?

All OBE people, 100%, that they are having electrical thoughts or dreams about OBE's.Can we just accept that all thoughts and dreams are due to electrical impulses between the brain's neurons. So can we drop the word electrical. It's not required, and is mildly annoying.

What is the odds that so many Near death experience people, all would have the same dream, when in that state, that would almost be as over whelming as every man, having wet dreams, when puberty hits. The odds are quite good, since the scientific explanation is that it is part of the process of the brain shutting down, which should be go through a similar sequence for all people.

Where could this electrical thought be hiding at?, well let's try the invisible force.Hiding? Which invisible force?

How could it survive?Survive what?

How does a micro like SARS11 survive?, on the electric in atoms. SARS is a virus, we know what it looks like, and it's a LOT bigger than an atom.

Why has nobody ever noticed them before? Einstein noticed them, Wow, way to contradict yourself!

but he was not willing to throw the dice where the dice always go, when it pertains to free will. I have no idea if that means anything.

OBE people would have he same capabilities as those atom that did not behave the way Einstein believed they should.Oh dear, did you really just invoke quantum mechanics?

They say that everything has been said before, but I am the first person to ever post this topic before, so it is just as possible, that this topic has not really got the full treatment of what goes around comes around yet.On the contrary, OBEs have been discussed here many times. Check out Lightcreatedlife@hom's 51 page thread!

How can you get evidence, when you don't get the patient the correct test to begin with. And which test would that be?

If they want a sample, like they do with every other study, then they need to put the correct tools in place.Which tools?

You can build the best stress test in the world, but you won't get results, until the patient starts running.Yes, true. So?

Thank you for listening to my thoughts,
TimAnytime.

[athon]

Good thoughts athon,

Where do you get your fact, that there is no inside to electric.

Because this is a meaningless statement. It's like saying 'what is inside talking?'. Talking is the description of an action, not an actual thing. It's why people here are suggesting you need to have a better understanding of the fundamentals of science.

Life and electric is best described by movement, and all things on earth is made up of electric.

Again, electricity describes a moving charge. Nothing is made of electricity as such.

Your electrical thoughts is always trying to take you away from perceived pain, such as my topic...

Hehe. Well, at least you have a sense of humour.

Please try to address some of the points made here. They might save you from wasting a lot of your time and effort on something fruitless.

Athon

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

Tim, it would be REALLY helpful if you find someone who helps you to translate concepts like "electrical thoughts". Its simply impossible to understand you.

[Brian Jackson]

Question:

If I ran a car into the side of another web site for example, and then I...

'Nuff said. Talk to this (http://www.timecube.com) guy.

[Tim4848]

Tim Brewer,

Thank you for your interest in the James Randi Educational Foundation's Million Dollar Challenge!

I'm afraid that forums do not qualify as a media presence, and I suggest that you contact your local newspaper or television news network to request an interview of some kind. Only just a couple of nights ago, there was a man on the news here who could hula hoop underwater, and I'm quite sure that psychic abilities would be even more interesting to the media than that.

When you have established a media presence of some kind and fulfilled the other qualifications on the JREF's web site you will include the workable protocol in addition to the SASE and notarized application form.

I hope this is helpful, and let me know if you need any more information regarding the Challenge!

Sincerely,

JREF Challenge Desk

[Tim4848]

To whom it may concern,

I will be glad to answer all your questions in due time.

First I have to take my daughter to the store and get cake mix for a school project.

Thank you,
Tim

[vIQleS]

Good thoughts athon,

Where do you get your fact, that there is no inside to electric. I would like to see that information for my self. Who through out history has prov-en that there is nothing inside electricity. Life and electric is best described by movement, and all things on earth is made up of electric. Your electrical thoughts is always trying to take you away from perceived pain, such as my topic, to expected pleasure, from the way you were brought up.

Thank you,
Tim

I think you need to check your translation software, 'Electric' is not the word you want here. Electric clearly doesn't mean what you think it means.

What's your first language? Perhaps we can find someone who can help you translate...

[Tim4848]

Hmm.

1) Genius who can beat chess masters and champion pool players.
2) Executive of large company.
3) Compares himself to Edison.
4) Compares himself to Einstein.
5) Quantum mechanics.
6) Altrusitic intentions of "helping" us all realise the truth.

What's the website to score all this again?
To whom it may concern,

I once heard, that if you stick a lobster in a bucket of water, you better put a lid on the bucket, or the lobster will climb out of the bucket, but if you stick another lobster in the bucket, you don't need a lid, because one of the lobsters will always pull the other on down.

This topic is about positive possibilities, I would be more than glad to start a topic on The Department of Negative Out of Body Possibilities.

The reason I say this is quite clear, no scientist has ever came out and said, that it is not possible, so until the day that is the case, this possibility could go either way. I honestly believe it is possible, covering one side of the coin, and i truly understand if you don't think it is possible, I truly understand, but this stand still is doing nothing but using up good time.

150 years from now, we will all be gone, and then other more advance people than us, will be thinking about this topic, they might find this old topic in the archives, and look how we are handling this topic, are they going to see a balance discussion, are they going to see anything come of it, what are they going to see?

I would like to think they are going to read about some people, that are open minded to other possibilities.

I plan on answering all past replies when time permits.

Everything in life consist of pain or pleasure

Everything in life is either going forward or backward

positive or negative

right direction, wrong direction

All mind maps are as endless as pie, and everything in life takes it's allotted amount of time.

Thank you for reading my thoughts,

Tim

[Tim4848]

To whom it may concern, I will be more than glad to try a mock experiment.

I will get my big screen TV fixed

I will buy an eye camera for my computer

I will buy a new battery for my device and dust it off.

I will put everything in place, like I was going to do in the challenge and let you see for yourself, and after I do it, I will be glad to mail the device to you, and let you do it as well. This would be good practice, since the afterlife would have to travel to any contest anyway.

Thank you for listening to my thoughts,

Tim

[EHLO]

You have a "device"? Perhaps you could start by just telling us what it is, and what it does as I'm sure I'm not the only one still rather confused.

[wollery]

This topic is about positive possibilities, I would be more than glad to start a topic on The Department of Negative Out of Body Possibilities.

The reason I say this is quite clear, no scientist has ever came out and said, that it is not possible, so until the day that is the case, this possibility could go either way. I honestly believe it is possible, covering one side of the coin, and i truly understand if you don't think it is possible, I truly understand, but this stand still is doing nothing but using up good time.I don't think anybody here has said it isn't possible, although some (including me) have offered mundane explanations. We've simply asked you to clear up some of your points, to explain what you mean, and how your device works.

[vIQleS]

I've just finished reading the thread on hoax museum - and as far as I can tell, he has seen this device:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrainGate

Which seems to be a real and normal scientific breakthrough. (And totally cool - I'm trying to find where I can sign up for the waiting list.)

He plans to use this device to communicate with people who are having an OBE - that is using the machine to detect the presence of the 'spirit' or whatever. (presumably because it can detect the electric current in a living brain and "converts the intention of the user into computer commands")

The flaws in his plan are legion and have been thoroughly explained in simple terms, even in regards to the potential problems in applying for the MDC

Tim: have I correctly summerized your intentions? Perhaps you could elaborate (in a few simple, easy to comprehend statements)...

[Tim4848]

To whom it may concern, this was the original post.

Thank ou for taking an interest.


Experiment for the challenge:

Regardless if they allow me or anybody else to try this challenge, this was the challenge I was going to try, and if you are interested in trying it as well, please fill free to read on.

You will need An Electronic Sensors lab kit from Radio Shack
The one I got is called Electronic Sensors Lab, and it was less than $60.00 dollars a couple of years ago. Make sure your kit has a touch sensor, and a green led light that come with it.

The workbook that I got with my kit was written By Forrest M. Mims III,
Here is a note in that workbook from him:

“You are about to enter the world of electronic sensors. It’s a fascinating place where you will experiment with electronic devices that respond to touch, pressure, magnetism, light, temperature, and rotation. When you build and experiment with the projects in the lab kit, you will have fun while learning how electronic circuits respond to the world around them. I hope you enjoy experimenting with these projects as much as I did designing them.”

After getting the kit, build the project that allows a green led flasher to responds to any type of contact with the touch sensor. Please do not touch the sensor at anytime with human skin, this could cause a micro experiment and not an afterlife one. The only exception to that would be if you are having no luck with afterlife communication, and you decide to try for micro communication, if that is the case, you are looking at a different challenge.

We are looking for advance thinking and action driven potential electrical thought out of body afterlife people that might be hanging out around you at any given time.

When I had my OBE, I could not hear and as far as I was aware, there was nobody trying to communicate with me in this way, so we have to expect this will be the case in this experiment as well.

The best way to do this that I have found, is posting signs that can be read from anybody, even people who can not see real good up close. I would suggest using a big screen TV as a monitor for your computer, and be willing to have your message for this experiment on there as much as possible. This message will read somewhat like a newspaper adds at first.

Have somebody view your monitor, and see if they can make heads or tells on what are trying to say, and what you want them to do. If your friend cannot follow your instructions, then don’t expect anybody else to be able to do it as well.

Now that you have your Radio Shack Electronic Sensors lab kit all set up correctly, your next goal is to get the word out to all afterlife that comes in contact with you over a curtain time frame, I would give that time frame about ninety days. My first contact with afterlife took twenty days.
Your communication to the afterlife should be so simple that a Geico cave man would be able to do it. We spend years trying to dig up old fragile stuff from the past; so I believe the least we can do is give this possibility the same respect and time it needs.

Just get the light to come on at anytime during the day at first, then build off of that. Make sure you are always thanking the afterlife person, they only know how things are going, by telling them how things are going with the experiment. If you are not good at listening to other people’s emotional needs, or people skils in general, then this experiment might not be right for you.
Hopefully you will be happy with your results, and it will help bring more attention to future positive afterlife possibilities.

Quick review:
Buy the touch sensitive kit from Radio Shack
Put it together correctly
Have a big screen monitor that can post big screen messages to people that cannot hear or might not be able to read small print.
You will be trying to a track educated out of body afterlife people that might come in contact with your monitor message.
Your messages will explain what you are trying to accomplish, and what you need them to do, if they are interested in doing it.
In form them in writing what you want them to do, and then see if they have the ability to do that, by measuring results on your kit.

A standard experiment for the challenge:
Getting a light to come on this devise, with no help from an object that you are aware of
Getting the light to come on during an agreed planned hour.
Getting the light to flicker at different sequence times within that hour.
Getting the light to stop coming on after that hour

Example; Getting it to light up every twelve seconds, then getting it to change that sequence to five seconds one time, then back to the twelve seconds cycle again. I believe just getting it to come on and end during this agreed time frame is good enough, but to change the sequence of the response, should be enough proof, that you are seriously interacting with something that has the ability to be educated in some manner.
If you got the and patience to teach them how to do the Morse code, then by all means, take the time to do that, but my goal is we use other things like Brain Gate, for that type of communication.

I hope you have as much success with this kit as I have, but if that does not turn out to be the case, then I am truly sorry for wasting your time.

Thank you,
Tim

[strathmeyer]

Tim, I have had out of body experiences. In fact, with a bit of luck, patience, and hard work, I can induce them. What does your product mean for people like me?

[Apathia]

Tim, I have had out of body experiences. In fact, with a bit of luck, patience, and hard work, I can induce them. What does your product mean for people like me?

I thought he was selling a product at first, so I called him a spammer.
But actually BrainGate is nothing of his own.
As vIQleS points out, he assume sthat since the device can respond to and use electrical activity in the brain, it can pick up mind activity whan the mind is out of the brain on an astral journey.

Apart from that he has his proposed experiment in last post, which is essentailly to get the attention of a departed spirit of someone doing an out of the body, so that they can effect various sensors and in that way communicate.

He assumes there is an astral or spirit body apart from the physical one, that can effect instruments.

So, conduct a seance. And instead of having the spirit play a toy trumpet, get it to mess with electronic equipment.

[Brian Jackson]

Might I propose as a challenge:

Mount a small shelf above the headboard of your bed, higher than eye-level when standing. Every night pick a playing card at random and place it face up on the shelf, without seeing it. If you are truly having an OBE, you should be able to view the card during sleep. If you can successfully identify the card when you wake up, this might warrant further study.

I actually tried this during my lucid dream experiments just to rule out the possibility. Needless to say I don't believe in OBEs, but that's not to say they cannot happen. I've just not seen, nor experienced, any evidence thus far.

[Tim4848]

Good question Strathmeyer,

The device I talk about above your reply, won't do anything for you or anybody else, but I hope a modified machine like BrainGate might.

Do you believe when you have OBE's, that they seam real or do you believe they are dreams?

The reason I ask this, is because I have never read anywhere of a person having multiple OBE's as saying that those seamed real.

also do you believe when you are having them, that you are mostly experiencing them from your right side of the brain, the left, both, or just like you do while you are a wake?

Thank you,
Tim

[Tim4848]

I don't know if the BrainGate thing will work or not, i just see a close connection of both topic's, that I honestly feel it is worth exploring.


We already have the machine

We already have the patients using the machine for other activities, why not take it to the next level and see what happens, what could it possibly hurt.

If it don't work, feel free to blame it on me, I will be more than glad to take all responsibility, if it does not work.

Thank you,
Tim

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

Do you believe when you have OBE's, that they seam real or do you believe they are dreams?

Brian Jackson tells you about a good experiment that you might want to try, it will confirm that you are indeed "out of your body" or just having a lucid dream. Im a good lucid dreamer, I have at least three or four every week. Some of them are as realistic as you can imagine, even giving me the sensation that Im awake, in "the real world" (so to speak).

I can just talk for myself, but I do believe that OBE's are lucid dreams, in which the dreamer is so awake and perceiving things as he/she perceives them in their waking life. A possible conclusion is that, because it seems MUCH MORE REAL than "just" a dream... they should be out of their bodies.

I would love to see that OBE's are real, but so far we have just anecdotes, nothing more.

[Tim4848]

Brian Jackson tells you about a good experiment that you might want to try, it will confirm that you are indeed "out of your body" or just having a lucid dream. Im a good lucid dreamer, I have at least three or four every week. Some of them are as realistic as you can imagine, even giving me the sensation that Im awake, in "the real world" (so to speak).

I can just talk for myself, but I do believe that OBE's are lucid dreams, in which the dreamer is so awake and perceiving things as he/she perceives them in their waking life. A possible conclusion is that, because it seems MUCH MORE REAL than "just" a dream... they should be out of their bodies.

I would love to see that OBE's are real, but so far we have just anecdotes, nothing more.
Thank you Bodhi Dharma Zen for that input,

What type of feeling did you experience leaving your body and what type of experience did you feel going back into your body?

Why do you feel doctors can not record any electrical activity in the brain of near death out of body people. One report shows the brain is dead, some people have experience this all the way to the morgue, just to be awaken, as they start to cut them open, and then after the person has shown no signs of getting oxygen to the brain, they come back from this experience, maybe even smarter than they were, before they had the unexpected experience.

Some research has shown that kids who have experience an OBE, test afterwords at levels of geniuses. That is one powerful dream.

Thank you once again for your input, and please fill free to respond even more. That is the purpose of this topic.

Thank you,
Tim

[Loss Leader]

That's alls I can stands and I can't stands no more.


One report shows the brain is dead, some people have experience this all the way to the morgue, just to be awaken, as they start to cut them open, and then after the person has shown no signs of getting oxygen to the brain, they come back from this experience, maybe even smarter than they were, before they had the unexpected experience.


What report is this? Where can I get a copy?

What evidence do you have that a person survived the start of an autopsy and became smarter?


Some research has shown that kids who have experience an OBE, test afterwords at levels of geniuses.


What research is this? Please describe where I can read a copy of the papers. Please provide the names of the researchers, the institutions doing the research and the years the research was done. Please describe how the researchers verified the children had actually had out of body experiences. Please describe how the researchers verified that the children tested as geniuses. Please describe how the researchers verified that the increase in intelligence was not explainable other than as being due to the OBEs. Please name the children in the experiments.

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

What type of feeling did you experience leaving your body and what type of experience did you feel going back into your body?

I have never being "out of my body" (that said, Im not inside the body, but thats complicated and not relevant to this particular discussion). I have Lucid Dreams, a whole different thing.

Lucid Dreams are dreams in which you realize that you are DREAMING and not in your waking state. They can be felt as the real thing (meaning our world) in every perceptual way you can imagine. But they are DREAMS, with no connection whatsoever with the waking life.

I was merely pointing out that, being a Lucid Dreamer, I can understand why some people could get confused and think that they are actually having an OBE instead of a dream. Thats all.

[Oualawouzou]

What type of feeling did you experience leaving your body and what type of experience did you feel going back into your body?

Reality isn't based on feelings but on facts.

It doesn't matter how it "feels". If you cannot retrieve information while experiencing an OBE (see the card-on-top-of-a-shelf experiment above for a good example of an easy to set-up, easy to test experiment), then it doesn't matter how real it "feels". It's still nothing to write home about.

[Tim4848]

Read this one for now and I will get more.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence10.html

Thank you,
Tim

[athon]

Read this one for now and I will get more.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence10.html

Thank you,
Tim

Tim, this web site is full of what we call 'anecdotes'. While this person is not necessarily lying, it is little more than a collection of stories he has collected. There is no objectivity, no critical analysis...nothing. Do you need us to explain why this does not serve adequately as evidence for an issue like OBE's?

Now, you need to provide some sort of objective analysis supporting the following points:

1) OBE's are a function of the mind external to the body. This could be demonstrated by an experiment as one suggested earlier, where under controlled conditions the individual can observe something they could not observe should they still be in their body.

2) An ECG reading showing zero activity while a person demonstrates under controlled conditions that they were actually aware during this period. This is not as easy as you think - just 'remembering' that period is not enough, as there is no guarentee that this memory was formed during the so-called dead period.

Once you have something substantial supporting at least one of these, if not both, then you can move on to ways of communicating with such entities.

Athon

[Tim4848]

I hope to have that information about people getting smarter, after having an OBE with in the next three days.

My ultimate goal is to get an opportunity to help engineer a way of modifying a machine like BrainGate to be able to give you the facts you want, but that is not my call to make.

It always come down to having the correct tools, or at least tools that can be modified to be tools.

Example, it is hard at night to see night crawlers, frogs, or even deer with out a flash light. I can tell you that they are out there, but having he tools makes it a lot easier.

Thank you,
Tim

[Tim4848]

To whom it may concern,

This is a link that might help some parent get smarter kids.

http://www.thepsychictimes.com/articles/atwater.htm

Thank you,
Tim

[Skeptic Guy]

I hope to have that information about people getting smarter, after having an OBE with in the next three days.

My ultimate goal is to get an opportunity to help engineer a way of modifying a machine like BrainGate to be able to give you the facts you want, but that is not my call to make.

It always come down to having the correct tools, or at least tools that can be modified to be tools.

Example, it is hard at night to see night crawlers, frogs, or even deer with out a flash light. I can tell you that they are out there, but having he tools makes it a lot easier.

Thank you,
Tim

First, you would have to have an idea as to what to do with the tool, right or otherwise, and I don't think you have a firm idea as to what you are trying to do.

[knot]

Google ranks by how many big sites link to your site.

Anyway, astral projection is all in your head.

[Loss Leader]

Read this one for now and I will get more.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence10.html

Thank you,
Tim


Tim -
This site claims to tell the story of George Rodonaia. He claimed to have a near death experience in the 1970s in Russia. However, the only evidence on this site or any other I have looked at about this man comes from his own words. I have seen no objective evidence that what he said about himself is in any way true.

Do you have a newspaper that recounts his story at the time it happened? A newspaper in his hometown that says, "Man comes back to life after being presumed dead for three days" would at least be a start.

Otherwise, we have no reason to think that this ever even occurred.

For instance, last night I met a man from Mars and he looked very sad. He said, "Won't you help me find my girlfriend, please?" So I asked him, "What does she look like?" and the man from Mars said that she's ... eight foot two, solid blue, five trasnistors on each shoe.

My story is exactly as credible as George Rodonaia. If you have evidence that he is telling the truth, please present it. Otherwise, please tell everyone about my experience with the man from Mars.

[Loss Leader]

To whom it may concern,

This is a link that might help some parent get smarter kids.

http://www.thepsychictimes.com/articles/atwater.htm

Thank you,
Tim


Tim -

If this is the "research" to which you have been referring, you really have to examine your definition of the word. This link is to an article repeating the claims of a woman named Dr. P.M.H. Atwater. Don't get too excited about the "Dr." part turns out to be an honorary Ph.D. Honorary. And it's not even a Ph.D. in a hard science. It's in "Therapeutic Counseling." And it's not even from a real university. It's from The Open International University for Complementary Medicines, Colombo, Sri Lanka. This "university" offers training in "HOLISTIC & ALTERNATIVE Therapies, eg, SPA, Aqua, SOL, AROMATHERAPY, REFLEXOLOGY, MASSAGE, ACUPRESSURE, SIATSU, Homeopathy." Why some of these are in all caps is anyone's guess. Here is their entire website (http://www.openinternationaluniversityforcomplementarymed icines.com/).

Atwater also claims to have a humanities doctorate from the International College of Spiritual and Psychic Studies (Spiritual Sciences Fellowship), Montreal, Canada. First of all, humanities pretty much means that she was not trained in any scientific method. Second, I can't find any association by this name.

"Dr." Atwater also lists her extensive publication history. It, of course, includes no respectable scientific journals.

Tim - you really need to examine whether there is any reason to believe this woman. Her training gives us no reason to believe she is capable of real scientific inquiry. Her statements don't help her case. In the article you cite, she states, "forty-eight percent of the children between the ages of birth and fifteen years that I had sessions with tested as genius (average IQ being 150-160) with no genetic markers to account for it."

No genetic markers? I would be fascinated to know what genetic markers she thinks there are to account for IQ in the first place. So would all of medical science. No researcher has ever isolated any bit of DNA that marks someone as a genius. Not only has this honorary therapeutic counselor found such a marker but she is using it regularly in her research.

Tim, for the sake of my sanity, try to evaluate the credentials of the people making these claims before you choose to believe them.

[calebprime]

Can ask if English is your first language? I'm not saying that to be rude, however your communication is proving difficult to understand.

Athon

To whom it may concern,

I will be glad to answer all your questions in due time.

First I have to take my daughter to the store and get cake mix for a school project.

Thank you,
Tim

Spammer, and I believe I even know who the suspect is.

It does have a familiar feel.

To whom it may concern,

I once heard, that if you stick a lobster in a bucket of water, you better put a lid on the bucket, or the lobster will climb out of the bucket, but if you stick another lobster in the bucket, you don't need a lid, because one of the lobsters will always pull the other on down.

This topic is about positive possibilities, I would be more than glad to start a topic on The Department of Negative Out of Body Possibilities.



I plan on answering all past replies when time permits.

Everything in life consist of pain or pleasure

Everything in life is either going forward or backward

positive or negative

right direction, wrong direction

All mind maps are as endless as pie, and everything in life takes it's allotted amount of time.

Thank you for reading my thoughts,

Tim

To whom it may concern, I will be more than glad to try a mock experiment.

I will get my big screen TV fixed

I will buy an eye camera for my computer

I will buy a new battery for my device and dust it off.

I will put everything in place, like I was going to do in the challenge and let you see for yourself, and after I do it, I will be glad to mail the device to you, and let you do it as well. This would be good practice, since the afterlife would have to travel to any contest anyway.

Thank you for listening to my thoughts,

Tim


Can I have my pie and eat it too and not get fat?

Oh, that's the Pie-Hole machine. different.

Seriously, Tim. I have some of the same questions:

1) Is English your first language?
2) Do you also work with perpetual-motion toy cars?
3) Are you using a computer translator?
5) Have you ever heard of Dr. John? or other doctors?
4) R U Sirius?

People here will ask you serious questions, and then start to mock you if you don't admit to making mistakes. Admit your mistakes, or expect mockery.

caleb

[TX50]

I had a memorable OBE/lucid dream thingy once. Nodding off to sleep one
night I heard a buzzing sound in my ears and thought I was dying. For some
bizarre reason in the dream I felt the urge to tidy up my room a bit so my
body wouldn't be discovered among a heap of beer cans and plastic soda
bottles (don't ask...). In my lucid/OBE floating disembodied state I had
several goes at trying to "dive bomb" an empty 2 ltr Coca Cola bottle into the
trash bin from great height like an astral Stuka - before I crash landed and
suddenly woke up (and no; the coke bottle hadn't moved when I woke up). It
was a fun dream though!

One semi-serious point though. I often lucidly dream - often with the dreams
(subjectively) indistinguishable from real life. The litmus test within the dream
is if I can fly. If I can jump up and not come down then it's (probably) a
dream. Strangely I'm pretty sure I never experienced this until after I took up
SCUBA diving.

[Loss Leader]

One semi-serious point though. I often lucidly dream - often with the dreams (subjectively) indistinguishable from real life. The litmus test within the dream is if I can fly. If I can jump up and not come down then it's (probably) a dream. Strangely I'm pretty sure I never experienced this until after I took up SCUBA diving.



I've had good luck with a piece of advice from the movie "Waking Life." If the light switches don't work, I'm dreaming.

[Tim4848]

Good thought Loss Leader,

I went back and read some of the stuff again at

http://www.mkaku.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1076

These guys wrote some really good stuff about this topic!


Thank you,

Tim

[strathmeyer]

Do you believe when you have OBE's, that they seam real or do you believe they are dreams?

The reason I ask this, is because I have never read anywhere of a person having multiple OBE's as saying that those seamed real.

also do you believe when you are having them, that you are mostly experiencing them from your right side of the brain, the left, both, or just like you do while you are a wake?

Huh? They seem like real, dreamy out of body experiences to me. What does a fake one feel like? How would I tell what side of my brain I was experiencing them on? I didn't try any higher level cognitive function because I was having too good of a time.

[Taffer]

Scientist do not know what is inside electric, and electric is an energy that can not be made or destroyed, it can only change form, do you remember when you was just a sperm, I'm thinking changes energy then. OBE, I am thinking change energy here. Wet dream, not focus on my energy at the time, and we didn't talk about that either.

Thank you,
Tim

"Inside electric" is not a meaningful concept.

[knot]

I think this sums it up (http://wilstar.com/midi/twilzone.wav)

[Tim4848]

I have electrical thoughts everyday, using the resources of atoms, not concepts.

Example:

Take a block of wood in the shape of a Rubik cube.

How many places on that cube make contact with electrical atoms?

All of it, a count of atoms that is so high, that I would be beside myself to even try and add up.

Maybe there is no such thing as a fake OBE's

If we are going to make head way in a field that is as vast as this topic, maybe we need not be in such a hurry to equal it to only the concepts we already know, and work to find better ones.

thank you,
Tim

Thank you,
Tim

[athon]

Tim, have you read and considered anything anybody has said in this thread? Go back and find some of the questions and statements people have posted here in relation to your claims and try to answer them, as you're on the verge of not being taken seriously at all.

Athon

[wollery]

I have electrical thoughts everyday, using the resources of atoms, not concepts.All thoughts are due to the electric impulses between synapses in the brain. So the use of the word "electrical" is redundant when talking about thoughts.

Example:

Take a block of wood in the shape of a Rubik cube.

How many places on that cube make contact with electrical atoms?

All of it, a count of atoms that is so high, that I would be beside myself to even try and add up.All atoms have positive particles in their nuclei (protons) and negative charges in orbit around their nuclei (electrons), but in a block of wood the charges in the atoms are balanced, so the block has no net charge. It is also a very poor conductor of electricity. Did you have a point?

Maybe there is no such thing as a fake OBE'sAnd maybe there's no such thing as real OBEs.

If we are going to make head way in a field that is as vast as this topic, maybe we need not be in such a hurry to equal it to only the concepts we already know, and work to find better ones.And maybe we should investigate whether OBEs are real or not before we investigate how we can use them. If all you can offer are anecdotes from individuals about their own experiences then you have nothing to offer towards such research.

[Loss Leader]

If we are going to make head way in a field that is as vast as this topic, maybe we need not be in such a hurry to equal it to only the concepts we already know, and work to find better ones.


Your statement assumes there is a field to make headway in.

Prove that OBEs are real or prove that the afterlife exists and then we'll move on to considering what to do about it. After all, why work out plans to build a table if you have no wood?

[Oualawouzou]

I've had good luck with a piece of advice from the movie "Waking Life." If the light switches don't work, I'm dreaming.

Yeah, but usually, that's the start of a nightmare. :( Which is peculiar, since I'm not afraid of the dark... Fortunately, ever since I successfully got my stuffed animals to attack that pesky skeleton that always tried to kill me, I've been able to turn almost every nightmare into an exhilirating brawl with the bad guy du jour. :D To this day, the best fight remains that of me and my brother, armed only with a broom and a rake, vs a band of ninjas in a parking lot. Wee!

Personnally, I attempt telekinesis as a litmus test (it's surprisingly fun, btw). Though if I find myself suddenly surrounded by attractive, almost naked women for no apparent reason, I often forego the testing and go right into enjoying the dream. :p

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

Yeah, but usually, that's the start of a nightmare. :( Which is peculiar, since I'm not afraid of the dark... Fortunately, ever since I successfully got my stuffed animals to attack that pesky skeleton that always tried to kill me, I've been able to turn almost every nightmare into an exhilirating brawl with the bad guy du jour. :D To this day, the best fight remains that of me and my brother, armed only with a broom and a rake, vs a band of ninjas in a parking lot. Wee!

Personnally, I attempt telekinesis as a litmus test (it's surprisingly fun, btw). Though if I find myself suddenly surrounded by attractive, almost naked women for no apparent reason, I often forego the testing and go right into enjoying the dream. :p

Exactly thats the kind of fun you can have in LD. I never have nightmares. Never ever. The moment something "bad" is happening I realize its a dream and I become god in that environment. Omnipotent, yeah, I know about that from experience ;)

[Taffer]

Exactly thats the kind of fun you can have in LD. I never have nightmares. Never ever. The moment something "bad" is happening I realize its a dream and I become god in that environment. Omnipotent, yeah, I know about that from experience ;)

I haven't had what I would call a nightmare in so many years. I think the last time I had on was in my early teens (I am now 22). My dreams tend to be rather... mundane. Occasionally I have really cool dreams, however, for example I once had a dream where I was fighting a zombie horde, only to be infected and become one of the zombies! :D

ETA: I have falling dreams a lot, though. I've had dreams where I've fallen out of aircraft, and other very high places. Often this is associated with the very uncomfortable sensation of falling. And I always land in my dreams. On my feet. Completely unharmed.

[hcmom]

because I do not have a good enough media presents...


But I'm still confused. Communicate with future out of body people?

Ok, I'm late to the game, as usual, but....

Yeah, I don't understand the future out of body people, and I REALLY don't get why he thinks he should be getting better gifts from the media. :halo:

[Tim4848]

To whom it is concern,

After reading the topic about "Oral sex linked to throat cancer" by Orangutan, I can see why some people might be frustrated at this point, but don't take it out on me. lol

I will make it my goal today to re-read past questions on this topic, and try my best to answer them as soon as I can, to the best of my ability at this time, but before I do that, I want to post this as well.

Let’s talk about what hope we do have now for afterlife to communicate with us now, if it is possible. Nothing, so if that is the case, I propose we start doing something, even it that something is very small.
Just to do something is still going to have it own challenges as well, but with a little effort, it can be over come.
Since most humans will find it hard to buy into something to complicated, I propose we keep it as simple as possible, but still leaving it open for results.

(Step 1)
We need a universal message, via- a light show on the radio Shack sensor, from a Morse code that could be understood by all parties involved.
Example S.O.S, might be easy, buy I am not sure on the consistency of the lights that would be displayed if that would be a good one.

Please feel free to put in your input on that part, especially if you are good at Morse code your self.

(Step 2)
Placing the device in a location that can be found by any human now, so if the event happens, and they do find them self in this situation, they will at least know where they will need to go, if they decide this is an option that they would like to try. we need to find a better location than my house. Any suggestions on that?

(Step 3)
The device must be monitored at all times and kept running at all times, in the event that all past monitor information must be reviewed by a human everyday, unless you have a easier way of doing that.
This is the best plan I know of at this time, while we try and make sense if this is possible or not at this time. The chiefs can argue about the possibilities for quite some times, but I believe we still need to think about the Indians.

How do you feel about this plan?

Thank you,
Tim

[Oualawouzou]

Instead of a code, wouldn't it be easier to set up any circuitry that would need to be activated at all? This removes the need for constant 24/24 7/7 monitoring. Simply get the spirit or whatever to turn on/off something that couldn't be turned on/off by other means.

[Tim4848]

----- Original Message -----From: Jeff Wagg, James Randi Educational Foundation
To: Tim Brewer ; Alison Smith
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 1:52 PM
Subject: Re: Communications


I don't know what "advance thinking and action driven electrical thought out of body afterlife people" is or are.

Are you saying you can make the contact buzzer work without touching it?

Jeff Wagg
JREF

On 5/20/07, Tim Brewer <tbrewer003@woh.rr.com> wrote:Dear Jeff Wagg,
*It is not a buzzer, but a light that comes on,*and that is only because I have only tried it with a light, but I suppose you could set it up to be used with a buzzer as well, and yes, I have had it work before, I just didn't think you were concerned about past events with*my experiments, so I tried not to bring that up.Science base their input in the fact that energy can not be made, destroyed, it can only*change form, so with that being the case. I want to prove that humans after they die, do have the ability to contact us through devises like this, but it can only work if we can educate them first on this*possibility. I once watched**one of your challenges were*a man tried to prove that he could alter a compass with thought alone, I would like to think my challenge is better, just because it is based on the fact that I do not even have to be anywhere near the machine when it works the way I say it will work. I would like the opportunity to have a monitor near by, only as a way to continue to send messages to the afterlife, as instructional information only.**
Please feel free to ask more questions if you would like.*Thank you,Tim*
I'm not accepting anything, I just wanted to be clear on what your claim was. You may apply now, and if you meet the criteria, your claim will be accepted.

Jeff Wagg
JREF
Thank you Jeff Wagg,*I appreciate your help in this matter, and now I will start getting things in order to be in a position to meet the criteria, and the challenge as well.*Thank you,Tim

[hcmom]

I, for one, can hardly wait.

:halo:

[Tim4848]

Dear hcmom, thank you for your comment.

I like your profile page, do you think you could help me with my profile page.

Maybe you can show me how to find different pictures for it, since I do not have a camera.

Thank you hcmom once again for your positive input,
Tim

[Loss Leader]

Let’s talk about what hope we do have now for afterlife to communicate with us now, if it is possible. Nothing, so if that is the case, I propose we start doing something, even it that something is very small.


What possible reason could there be to start doing something without any actual knowledge that it could possibly work?

What you are saying is exactly the logical equivalent of: There is no scientific basis to believe that humans can fly. So I propose we start standing on steps and jumping off in an effort to fly. Even though there is no scientific reason why that should ever work, at least we would be doing something.

No dog in history has ever graduated medical school. So, let's put two dogs in each entering class at every accredited medical school in the US. Even though we have no evidence that dogs can be trained as doctors, this would be something small we could do just in case.

Can you provide any actual verifiable, repeatable information that OBEs or the afterlife are real before we spend any effort on your experiment?


How do you feel about this plan?


Nauseous.

[hcmom]

* hcmom is absolutely speechless...

[Tim4848]

We know we can not fly because science has proved that we are to heavy, and we don't train dogs because that is our choice, even though some do.

I understand what you are saying, just like if I believed wrong that smoking makes you live longer, that can be measured by statistics, but we have no statistics on afterlife, and science can not tell you if after life can fly, because they have no data, and they have no way of measuring it. We do know if they our previous human afterlife floating out there if it is nothing more than a mutation to DNA, I would have to think some form of energy might be able to do that, they might be smarter than dogs.

We make people stay focus on work all there lives,then when they retire we asked them about things that they have not thought about in years, and then when they can't remember it to good, we say that there mind is not sharp anymore, some of us has lost our signs as that comedian saids, and we start thinking we know it all, when we are assuming at best.

It amazes e how somebody who can not tell you the names of every micro on Earth, since we have not even found all of them yet, could be such an expert in an area that might be just as vast.

I would think the experts of science could build a good argument for my side just as well, when you throw in all the variables.

You might be sure with your OBE, but research has shown that every experience is different from different observers, and with my experience I am not so sure it was a dream.

We know that energy can't be destroyed, and we know the energy w started with is smaller than a sperm, and there is no reason to think that this energy that can not be destroyed, would ever have to get bigger, than it's original size, and we already know about all the potential of an atom to begin with, and I could go on and on where atoms do their own thing, only to seam altered when a wave comes into the picture.

All I am doing is taking a device that is going to be turned on, put big words around it for about 30 days, not nearly one percent of the time it would take a dog to make it through school, and see if I get a response, it I can not prove it to myself or somebody else I know before applying for the challenge, I will reevaluate the situation and decide at that time if I should continue or not.

right / wrong
positive / negative
good / bad
pain / pleasure
assume / know


If anything, we might find out more about what happens to this energy that can't be destroyed just because our body can.

I guess some people believe our body makes our energy and I believe it is just growing up and getting it balance just like riding a bike, until it is ready to go out on it's own.

Now if I am right, there is a lot of Afterlife that might feel the way I do, and all they need is one person just like the one person who helped Helen Keller get her balance as well, and thanks to people like that, we now respect the Helen Keller of the world.

Now if I am wrong, boy could I go on about a whole lot of nothing.

Thank you,
Tim

[Loss Leader]

We know we can not fly because science has proved that we are to heavy, ... I go on about a whole lot of nothing.

Thank you,
Tim


Absolute. Nonsense.

But look up a guy called LightCreatedLife because you may be the first person in history to agree with him.

Also, for the record, birds are heavier than air. Some birds weigh more than twenty-six pounds and are able to fly quite well.

[Tim4848]

Thank you loss leader,

I was trying to save time on that example, just trying to get to my point to quick, I would imagine they also included the fact from observation that we did not have a wing span to help compensate for our weight as the birds did.

What ever the answer, they were able to make their conclusions based on observation, data, etc.

I think it is time for science to have a judge, somebody who is expected to be consistent on questioning everything, and I volunteer to do that with this topic until science can prove it wrong.

I have not built any walls that can't come down if I am wrong, but I am not going to cave in to other people opinions either if they do not have any evidence to say I am wrong.

Now let's say my device has a short in it, and that is why it is acting the way it is, then I will get another one, and test it as well.

I am not against doing different test, I want the truth as much as you, and I will always be working toward that result.

Thank you,
Tim

[Tim4848]

To whom it may concern,
Just to make sure I am on the right page with the rest of you.

Please answer these two questions for me;

1) why do you feel it is not possible?

2) If it was possible to communicate with future afterlife out of body people, would you want it to happen or not, and why?


Thank you,
Tim

[Taffer]

Tim, it is not up to us to have "evidence you are wrong", it is up to you to have evidence you are right.

[Taffer]

"Inside electric" is not a meaningful concept.

I would still like to see a response to this, Tim.

[Cuddles]

1) why do you feel it is not possible?

Because there is no evidence. In addition, everything we know about biology would have to be wrong. Since every day millions of things are done that verify the laws of biology it would have to be some pretty impressive evidence to change things.

2) If it was possible to communicate with future afterlife out of body people, would you want it to happen or not, and why?

What we want has absolutely nothing to do with reality. I want to be a millionaire with superpowers, but that doesn't mean it's going to happen. Unless my experiments with toxic waste pay off of course.

[Loss Leader]

To whom it may concern,
Just to make sure I am on the right page with the rest of you.

Please answer these two questions for me;

1) why do you feel it is not possible?


Because it is inconsistent with known laws of physics and biology and there is no evidence of the existence of any such phenomenon.


2) If it was possible to communicate with future afterlife out of body people, would you want it to happen or not, and why?


I don't know what "future afterlife out of body people" are, but I'll say,"Yes?"

[hcmom]

2) If it was possible to communicate with future afterlife out of body people, would you want it to happen or not, and why?


Thank you,
Tim
I guess before I know whether or not I want to communicate with future afterlife out of body people, I'd like to know what they are, and why they would want to communicate with me.

[EHLO]

Tim, if you conduct your experiment and the little Radio Shack light comes on at the designated time - how will you rule out any of the following causes:

1. Mischievous aliens with remote viewing/light activating technology
2. A herd of rampaging invisible unicorns
3. Uri Geller
4. God
5. Experimental error
6. Electrical noise

???

[hcmom]

Tim, if you conduct your experiment and the little Radio Shack light comes on at the designated time - how will you rule out any of the following causes:

1. Mischievous aliens with remote viewing/light activating technology
2. A herd of rampaging invisible unicorns
3. Uri Geller
4. God
5. Experimental error
6. Electrical noise

???

There's always psychic vibrations from all of us thinking about his experiment to consider too....

[EHLO]

True, but I don't think anyone is thinking *too* hard about the experiment.

(at least I hope not)

[termite37]

:confused:

http://www.cyberkineticsinc.com/content/medicalproducts/braingate.jsp

I looked that up. Fascinating! It looks like they are claiming the "lawnmower man" exists!

check the video on that under demo

update: oh god.. reminds me of that movie "The Matrix" when I view that braingate demo movie. combination of "lawnmower man" and "the matrix" movies. hmm

[Tim4848]

Hello, my name is Tim, and thank you for taking an interest in this topic up to this point so far. I hope you find these new thoughts just as interesting. For some other people just want to argue about the possibility, I did set up a topic on one site called The Department of Negative Possibilities, so feel free to go their if you like as well.

What you are about to read is nothing more than directional fantasy, to possibly help jump start this topic's positive possibilities and nothing more.

Just something to think about, talk about, as we think through things that happen through out our lives. If for any reason this topic might make sense to you at any point during that time, please fill free to update your OBE level status on this site, and I will talk more about the different levels of OBE's later, at least one quick way we should think about them anyway.

I am sorry that nobody through out history, or even after 2005. I believe that was a very important year, with the emerge of Brain Gate. I am surprise others don't see the connection to this machine as I do; the simple connection of machines and afterlife thought, as a tool to advance this topic even further. I guess it is hard to move something further, when it was not even moving to begin with. A tool that can be modified to what ever possibility we see that needs to be done in this field, because that is exactly what this field is, a wide open field to anybody with an imagination. Just as much as you have the ability to create something worthwhile in this field, so too does that show you that scientist can not say for sure it can't be done, because they have not studied this field half as good as all of us can do, because it is in the numbers, just like we went with this one oil to run a car, when with a little more effort, we even found other fuels that could do the job just as well.. I am not afraid to talk to anyone about this field, because I know just from the short time I have been in it, there is so much more work need done in this field.

If you pay close attention, you will notice the closer we get to making this a reality, the louder some people will be about not wanting it to happen. All I ask, is that you keep an open mind when this occurs. Don't be fooled by what they will say to try and scare you, but what they are not saying, the real reason they don't want it to happen. This will be a clear smoke screen to what there main agenda is all about, and we will discuss that later on, if that worst scenario keeps presenting itself.

Others will try and blow it off as I am some kind of ex-Woodstock religious freak on drugs who thinks he is Einstein, when I am nothing more than a messenger who wants to tell different people's these thoughts, just in case it turns out, that it is really possible..

Through out history people have been able to accomplish things, regardless of different obstacles, and this topic should be the same as well. I believe the out come of this topic will be no different. Measuring it the right way, as Edison would, trying everything, until we find the right thing. Edison achievement was putting all the right pieces of the puzzle all in one place, so the positive result could show itself, and that is what I am asking in this topic as well.

One of the advantage of this topic is the Murphy law effect. This topic opportunities could change at any second of the day, depending on so many different factors.

Example: Imagine scientist do not want to try my theory because they don't buy into it, but five minutes from now, somebody like Oprah, has an OBE; a level five like I had, and is so taken in by the experience, that she decides to check it out on the Internet and comes across my topic on one of the forum boards like the Near Death Experience ones ; not only does she believe in it as me now because of her new experience, but she is also amazed that she has been written in to the solution as well; as one of the possible positive scenario's as I am laying out to you right now. She sees what I want her to do, and maybe she will actually do it, or at least put me in a position to talk face to face with people in that field that can set me straight on the possibilities. She might decide to buy one of the machines and teach people in one of her schools on how to make it happen.

Now the chances of something like this happening is probably one percent of the ten percent of people expected to have this experienced at some point in their life. and this percentage could go up, depending on other factors as well, and we have the Internet to thank for that. because this topic is in a position to be seen by anybody who wants to find it. Yes this one positive possibility that just might happen, another might be that she gets wind of this topic by somebody who is reading it now, gets a chance to meet her, gives here the topic to explore one day, and she actually does. then a lot of the thanks would go to the person who told her about it. I believed that scenario would only work if she really did have a Level five OBE, since then she might be in the right mind set to take it under consideration. This is what would be considered a pre-meditated possibility, based on luck and so many other variables, but it certainly could cause positive results.

I believe if we look at different percentages of Murphy law, this is where we are at:

If five percent of people who have level five OBE's, decide to search more about this experiences on the internet, and at least three percent of them come across my topic, and at least one percent of them are in a position to make it possible, either through private money, or Government money, then this possibility could happen regardless of explaining anything more about it at this time.

In other words, I do not have to prove anything, I just have to have this thought in a position to be seen by others, who can make it happen by either their wealth, media presents, or ability to make it happen. So what we really should be doing is finding those people now that can do this and start to wait for them to have this experience, so they can make it happen.

Will it be Oprah, Donald Trump, Bill Gates, Hillary Clinton, Michel Fox, the Pope, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Tom Cruise, or maybe somebody else like you!

Time will tell

What you might ask these people now is this question

"If it did happen to you, and you honestly believed it was real as Tim does, do you know how to find this topic?

Ask them what level are they now, and if they would public-ally announce if that status ever chances.

I do not think that is a bad question to ask anyone, and it really is kind of fun, if you think about it. It's one of your status points in life.

Example:

I have a driver license

I wear glasses

I'm a 2OBE, use to be a 1OBE

This could start being added to people's info on their "My Space" for example. You could wear different color plastic wrist bracelets. It would consist of six different colors.

Before long, people will want to make sure we are doing everything we can to make sure we have the best communication in place for every Level OBE out there.

I once joined the ROTC in school because they promised to let us go up in a plane during the school year, and I would not be apposed to going to some school and getting more training in this area as well, especially if they promised me training on Brain Gate as well in this field of positive possibilities. Maybe our great country would help with government grants in this field, since they say they don't want to leave any of us behind.

I believe this is as much possible, as a policeman on a motor cycle, writing a seat belt ticket to somebody in a big yellow Hummer.

If the government is so concerned about keeping us alive now, with the intent to get your tax dollar longer; just think of all the money they could make if they could measure us in the afterlife world.

I know it might be hard for level 1OBE to understand all this because they can not see it now, like they can see a Wal-Mart being built; but just keep in mind their is a lot of other things that you can not see as well, but they are out there.

Some people believe afterlife can talk, and they believe that EVP will do that for them, I for one do not from my own experiences from having an OBE.

I believe that OBE's ,are clues to afterlife OBE's; because I feel they are early returns from death, and you can see that from their vital signs at the time and how long they had the unexpected experienced as well.

What I recommend we do to make this communication a reality is no different than other things we have tried in the past with other experiments in other fields, like the light bulb.

Do you think every experiment NASA has tried in outer space has always been a success, or that they were able to measure it correctly before they were able to take the experiment to outer space, I would have to say no, but on the same hand, experiments that they thought might work one way, probably turned out to work totally different than they expected early on, and then they just adjusted their approach for future experiments, you can also see that in just different things they have done over the years just to make it safer, but even with all that said, they still know it is risk, but at this time, they still feel it is worth taking..

Example: They say that an atom in a lot of ways is like it's own little solar system, and that it shares it's space with other atoms making it a very crowded little universe. So small, but yet so far away, and if that is our worst scenario, then we cannot expect them to communicate any better than we could expect from our self's.

If you don't believe me, just go out side and yell at outer space, and see if they can hear you down here, probably the best you can expect, is that your niebor will call the police, for disturbing the piece.

Now on the other hand, if everybody on earth would be quiet for a few seconds, and the people on the space shuttle had the correct equipment, maybe they could hear you, but your chances of making that happening would probably be harder than actually communicating with afterlife, so in one way that is a good thing.

Imagine you have been trained on Brain Gate, you are connected to Brain Gate right now, and we wanted you to do something in the space shuttle in outer space

right now, how could we do that?

It all comes down to what other people want to do, and they are in a position to do it.

A sign of how far the science of neuroprosthetics has come is that most of these difficulties are now engineering challenges, rather than problems of principle. In applauding this valuable work, it is worth noting that it was made possible by two of the bêtes noires of modern biology: commercial interests and animal research.

How can we do this, how can we do that, and what if we looked at it this way or that way, and what if we took this and put it with that before we do this again and so on. I could list all type of things we have not done, just to hear from other people on what proof do I have?

Because I believe it to be, and it is natural to science laws.

Because my out of body experience to me was not a dream and it came to me when I had no reason to want it to be real. For some reason the government did not want me to be left behind in school to a point, so I knew the importance of history, that better things can be learned from other people mistakes.

Imagine for a moment that there is only one person on earth, and this person can not talk or hear, even though once they did. On the other hand, you are in an orbit outside of earth and you need to communicate with that person, and one of the tools you have available with you in outer space is a Brain Gate machine, what might be your best way of using it with that person back on Earth. the first thing you must do is let them know what your intentions are and then the best way to do that problem, is post signs in outer space, that can be seen on earth, the next thing you must do is listen for vibrations, so you might need to magnify your efforts for that signal, while trying to drown out any other wasted noise, and this is where it gets harder, because there is not only one person on earth, as there is not only one afterlife in space, and unfortunately they all make vibrations.

Think about this for a moment, I believe every afterlife takes up space, just like you do, and how many that is, can only be a guess. If it is an animal, human, or anything else with energy thought, then you add in how many years they have been around, how many different strange movement of atoms in a curtain amount of space, then multiply that by all atom space, and that should at least give you a good honest number for now; and I would have to think that would be about one percent of all atoms. Now you might think that is a lot, but it really is not, when scientist believe only three percent of space is filled with atoms to begin with.

I once heard we sent signals into outer space, hoping that somebody else might hear them, and on the surface that sounds find, but once again it somebody like Einstein is floating out in outer space in his afterlife, he could not hear this message, because once again, he can not hear in his new handicap position..

I do not believe we need to reinvent the wheel, but we do need to put the wheel in the best position for success. We need to paint better pictures to afterlife, and we might need to put Brain Gate in the best position for success.

Hear me out on this thought. Lets train future patients of Brain Gate for the worst scenario on this topic, and build off of that, just like we do in other area's of life.

We need the best one on one situation that can be done, and that place might be in a pocket in space where dark energy is at. A place where one potential afterlife atom might need to go, to get away from all the white noise of all other afterlife here on Earth.

A place that is vast with nothing, but one atom and one Brain Gate machine, one on one like I was saying..

Think of afterlife as a stadium of noisy people, all trying to be heard for now, and you are trying to communicate with a Brain Gate machine at the same time; sounds impossible, but what if you could float away from this environment and find a quiet place in outer space, that has been selected just for you, with all the bells and whistles. A place where you might be heard; then your chances for success might be much greater.

So what we will need is a satellite, that will be prepared to take a modified Brain Gate machine and other potential afterlife energies up in outer space, to explore this possibility, and then fly to a dark energy place in space and see what happens.

This theory in my opinion could be done, and it would also cover some of the worst scenario for getting it done. Scientist have already shown that some things seam to work better in outer space, so do you think they have ever tried this one before, I didn't think so either. This would also cover situations, where some people think once you are cut off from your old body, you take off toward outer space anyway.

A lot of people believe in the real world that most things can be measured, but in the afterlife, they are happy with the possibility that they go to a place that can't be measured, and I do not agree with that.

A lot of people do not like to talk about anything to do with human death, because they associate it with pain, and your thoughts are always programmed to take you out of pain and into pleasure.



This is so far my Rating system for out of body afterlife

Level Zero: It has never happened to you, and you find it hard to believe it could happen to anybody else as well.

Level One: You had a dream or dreams of having an OBE's, at least it gives you something to talk about on this topic.

Level Two: You trained yourself to have one, the number does not matter, and it is all based on the fact that you wanted it to happen, and your thoughts did everything it could to make it as close as the real thing as you wanted to comprehend of it.

Level Three: You had one, but you experienced it through your right brain, because your left brain thoughts could not comprehend the experience, so your right side thoughts entertained you in limbo, supplying you only with what thoughts it feels you could handle at the time

Level Four: an OBE's that has some right brain activity, during some parts of the experience, but also some left brain activity at times as well; helping to keep you a little more level to the experience as well, but still sounding a little over the top when trying to explain it to others, even though they could see that you were showing signs of being dead at the time, and any machines connected at the time was proving it as well. Some machines were showing you as brain dead.

Level Five: Your body signs are showing you dead, you wake up by the ceiling and remain a wake through the rest of the process, you are in total control of your thoughts, and you can remember re-entering back into your body, by steps you did to make that a possibility.

Level Six: Out of body afterlife = still waiting for the correct communication devises to be in place for this one.

So if you are a level Zero, you do have a lot of options, but just remember what came around to us, might be coming to you later today. As far as I am aware right now, there is no proof all people that have an OBE, are nuts and have some kind of drug problem. If that was the case, people like Winston Churchill would never have got elected to his position in power. Just because you have never experienced it yet, or if you ever do, does not mean you should be ignorant to the possibility, just in case their is a possibility.

My thoughts tell me that one day in the near future, somebody like Oprah, Donald Trump, or even Tom Cruise will have a level five experience, then they will research the topic on the Internet, come across this topic, and then they will use their abilities, from their position, to supply the tools and support that will be needed to advance research in this field, so we can find out once and for all if it can be a reality. Now will they type into their computer the name of my topic and find it, probably not, but hopefully they might go to one of there forums and see it there. That is one of the advantages of a bulletin boards. Unlike the fact, that George Washington might of slept here or there, no one really knows, because there is no proof, but if your topic is still present, when big wheels come around, it's chances of being seen become so much greater. Depending on that big wheels ability to turn thought into action.

Some people ask me to explain how Brain Gate is going to make this happen, and we both would be kidding our self's, since I have never been any closer to that machine than you, but something inside me tells me that I should at least be given a chance to at least go to one on a field trip, just to interact with them and see what comes out of that. I believe everybody should be given one opportunity every year to do this until we die, or science prove it can't be done first in a way that can be measured. Why should I be allowed to do this? Because they might explain to me why it can't work, then I will be glad to report those findings, or they might give me challenges to over come, and then I will have a natural year to slice up those challenges, post them on this site as you can do as well, until all those challenges are gone.

I would like to find some place that could take all of my papers on this topic, and come up with some way of filing it for anybody to read for years to come, if they choose to do that. maybe what we need now is The Department of Positive out of Body possibility Museum topic, because at some point in history, people are going to want to know where we are at on this topic.

I understand if you are a level Zero, and that all of this sounds so impossible to comprehend and it might sound like right brain thinking, but just like anything else in life, you have to start somewhere; and it is always awkward at first, regardless of what ever it might be. Learning to crawl, or ride a bike, is always strange at first, but over time it gets easier, like other new things we learn everyday. Focus new change has always been a part of our life's anyway.

But as your number goes up as you move up in number to what piece you are, Some people for example that might be a seven in management, does not want fives, to become eights, because they feel threatened about their position, and probably income situations, that might be the case, but I always welcomed any number above me, because I honestly believed I just made us better as a team. I always tries to get ones to threes and so on, and maybe they could not become a three at this time, but they are ready to begin to be two's anyway.



I do not like to criticize, condemn or complain about anybody until they can not communicate anymore, so I guess I want to prove once and for before I die, one way or the other, if this is possible or not.

So maybe I am crazy for the fact hat I could be doing all type of other things than what I am doing now. All I can say about that is this. I understand the importance of being three dimensional in most areas of life, and I also understand what it is like to tune a curtain station on the radio.

I have the experience of having a level five OBE

I make a constant effort everyday, to try and see this topic from all angles as possible, while still keeping in mind that might not be possible.

I believe I am honest, reliable, creative, willing to listen, willing to learn, the ability not to cave in to unfounded citizen, based on their opinion that I am the sole provider for having to prove right now, how this can be a reality or not.

I understand if you are a level Zero, that this seams impossible, and since you are not vested in this as I or maybe other level fives, that the best we should do is come to terms with the way you are thinking, and maybe in time that will be the case, or others who might believe or hope as I do, but really don't think it can happen.

On that level, maybe it is good for all interested parties involved that my possibility should be a Yard stick for all false realities, and it must be measured only in our hearts because such a reality in it self might sound to hard to comprehend, for those all I can say, is it will be one person at a time, and all that will come down to timing. I assume that most people would not want to train for something until they see it work first, and I do not have a problem with that, as long as we put our selves in a position to have it work first.

_______________

This modified Brain Gate machine needs some hits in a way that it was never made to do before, but the bottom line is, it needs some tries.

I feel the more I try and explain this topic the better I get, and hopefully the better you get as well, and I believe with every potential hit the machine might receive in the future after the machine is modified, the interchange we have for success.

I would rather list all the different things we tried, so other people can read that , and then hopefully somebody will read it and see what other steps to the puzzle is out there.

like to relationship then keep believing what you are believing for now, and maybe you will always by all means do not believe it is possible, with out proof six proof.

There is a movement that is going on all over the world about this topic. People just like you, who have experienced a level five OBE, are coming to sites like this one, are getting important information about this topic.

Even though some people might miss-lead you hat this topic is as dead as the music in the song American Pie, you now know different, this possibility will be possible as soon as Murphy law shoots an electric arrow into the right person.

Through out life, different people have been influenced by these thoughts, but they were never in a position like you to make it a realty, so that is the question you must always ask yourself at different times in your life. Are you in a position to make it a reality? If the answer is yes, what is sopping you. If your answer is any of these, I have different comments for them, then it is your choice if you want to do it or not.

I'm scared - A great President once said, we have nothing to fear but fear itself

what would my friends say? Well, if you make it a reality, you can talk to your friends about it then.

Can I take my money with me, by putting in my will that I want to keep my money in a Pay pal account, in case they make it a reality in the future? - I personally do not see a problem in that, as long as a percentage was used every year for more research in that area. It would kind of like donating it to a cause, that might pay back big dividends in the event you are reached at a later date. the whole time your money is put into accounts that is growing in interest every year, unless science at some point can prove it is not possible, then you go to the next line in your will and you put it somewhere else.

Why don't the Government just work hard on making this a reality on there own? - Maybe they would, if they were not so busy giving amnesty consideration to all the criminals that are inside our borders. then when we do catch the million or so bad ones in the bunch, then we can us our tax dollars to keep them locked up for years to come.

You will never have a effect on this topic, until you have a cause, and that is what I am trying to explain, to the best of my ability today.

If you got to go o something else, please fill free to do that, but please find the time to help by keeping thoughts like these alive.

I believe one of the reasons this has not become a reality yet. is based on so many factors, but I also believe it is possible based on so many factors.

Some people would lead you to believe, that it is a waste of time to discuss this or anything else, because everything that can be said, has been said, or that everything that can be discovered has been discovered about this topic, so don't waste your time, and you will be considered a nut if you do.

Think for a second as though this topic is a song, some people might not like it, and that is fine, all I have to do is leave it playing for a while and see if some body might come along and listen to it as well, and decide to build a new machine to play it on.

This has already has happened in our past. Thanks to advancement in machines. They can take old tapes and albums of people like Hank Williams, Elvis Presley, and so on, and recreate their music in all type of formats for years to come.

Now some might say that everything that can be said, has already been said before. Now I don't know if that is true or not. I do know at this time, that my topic on the Internet, is the only one posted like it anywhere.

Is this topic truly just a simple twist of fate, only time will tell and it isn't talking at this time , as far as anybody can truly understand.

I will not lie, there are times in my life that I believe in happy endings, and I believe my topic is the closest thing I know to such a reality.

I am banking my topic on the possibility of somebody in an important position, such like in the media profession on having an OBE as well at some point, and the experience makes them want to explore the Internet for other experiences as theirs and they come across this topic, and depending on their influence, or financial backing, they take

Maybe they have access to machines like Brain Gate, because they had come down in price, or they are cheaper than gas at the time, what ever the reason, but they get the word out, they have the ability to sway people's behaviors. or they just like the idea of taking their money with hem and sees this as a good opportunity to do that, because nobody wants to be communicating in the afterlife, with out money. Research can only take you so far, at some point, the general public, private sector, or afterlife sector will have to help split the bill.

Some people worry about the thing called the world order, I believe it is to early to rule out that possibility, for all type of reasons. I believe the world order will perform at higher standards than anything you can imagine now.

Some people worry about Big Brother watching us, and then complains when they have to wait for other government programs as well. If having one all Big Brother, who is devoted to making my life easier, sounds a lot better than, what we have now, where different brothers are fighting and dying all over the world.

Have I finally planted the seed tactually created something,

that is bigger than life as we know it, only time will tell.

is it something all together different , or how things truly come around and go around, when it concerns The Sting Theory when it ran into The Department of Positive Out of Body Possibilities.

I am quite aware that different people have different opinions about this topic, and some do not even like talking about it at al, unless scientific prove is given up front, before any type of testing can be explored, but I also believe after reading other people positive replies, that there might be other ways of making this a reality, and that is luck.

Let me give you an example. Let's say that somebody in a very powerful position has an OBE at some point in their life, and they might have the ability to make this a reality as well. Maybe somebody who is so powerful in the media present, that they can build schools, provide equipment, build wings to hospitals, or even builds colleges as well.

but if I remember right, they are a lot like me. If I yawn they yawn, we both put on our shoes on at a time, and we both could have an OBE. Now when I had mine, back in the late seventy, early eighties, you did not hear anything about it, and you surely did not have the internet, but now, if you had one today, you can jump on the Internet, and you might come across my topic, and if that is the case, I would like to think I am providing a service, especially if this scenario might happen.

What you are about to read is nothing more than fantasy at this time.

The year is 3535

Hello, my name is John Doe and I am eighty years old in human life, but now I am an out of body afterlife person with no password to prove who I am. Nobody ever thought of giving you a password for my type of situation when I was alive because, it just wasn't something you talked about when I was alive, People were too scared to talk about dying, and that type of thinking at that time was just too far over the top.

I guess the biggest break through in this field came shortly after Oprah had her OBE's herself, and she decided to provide research in that field and made it a reality. None of this would not of happened if she did not have here experience, and some guy by the name of Tim, hadn't put this topic in a position to be read by her.

Tim realized that you can't make anything a reality if you don't believe in it first, and then have the ability to make it a reality second. Tim realized that he was average, but he also knew other people will have this experience, and they might be above average, and if they could work together, the chances of this working would be no different than Bernie Toblin and Elton John working together, with the goal of making music..

Tim believed that Afterlife are doing quite fine, but they are handicapped, and need to be treated as though, instead of being ignored by all type of false belief's that give the impression to people that it can't be possible, when in fact, it has never really been studied correctly, since Thomas Edison studied it years earlier.

Now on the other hand, I have this friend name Jane Doe who has had a password for quite some time, because she had the insight to make it a reality, following her unique experiences through out life. She was already handicapped, and her mother had an OBE a couple of years earlier, and made the connection to Jane, so she helped Jane get qualified with Brain Gate, just so she could live a better life on earth as a handicapped person, but never forgetting to motivate Jane in the future possibilities if Tim is indeed right. Her mother worked on Jane's placebo thoughts, telling her to focus strong because you might be doing this for a very long time. After Jane started getting good on the Brain Gate machine, her mother worked with her on a password, just in case things work out as Tim Believe they might.

It was not long after Jane was totally focus on the possibility, that complication from other health issues with her took her life. Jane's mother went to Capital Hill looking for more funding in this area, but was turned down do to lack of evidence, fortunately Jane's mother talked about the experience under the Department of Positive out of Body Afterlife possibilities topic umbrella, so other people in the puzzle had access to the information as well.



She also got training on the machines at a much earlier time, so she had special advantages when the first modified black market Brain Gate machine came on the market. Also after Brain gate began to become public, curtain radio stations bought time shares on the machine, so people could like Jane's mother could try and contact with her daughter. Her mother was always a strong willed person herself, so this all made sense to her, even though other people were not so sure in the possibility.



As I was saying, Jane's mother put her in a potential positive position, and now that it worked out, Jane is returning the favor back to her mom and everybody else as well and she is respected and admired for what she has done, and also the fact that they had the hind sight to have a password put in place, even though they did not need one at the time, and that password can be used anywhere American Express or Visa is taken. She did not have a lot of things when she was alive, but now with here afterlife job, and her low maintained afterlife style, she has piled a lot of money up on all type of different Pay Pales. When she was alive. before she got injured in a hit and run car crash, she was a teacher, and now in her afterlife she is still teaching. She teaches a class on the Internet called "How to live your dreams the right way." She has also written a lot of different books about the topic as well. Maybe you have heard of them before:

"Don't forget your Password" this book talks about other passwords you can use, if you did not have one recorded with Brain Gate before, and they are making great strides in communicating with people from other centuries as well, come to find out, they have been getting smarter while in an out of body experience thanks to some people who use big screen TV's when watching the news, and the fact that the put the words on the screen, when the news guy is talking. I guess the most famous person they have talked to is Thomas Edison, who replied "I told you so."

other books she has written as well.

"Don't stay connected to every wave that comes your way"

"Victim attitude is a waste of time, take control of your energy"

"How to un-retire in the Afterlife"

What I know about the crosses you bear, and what I am allow to say on a privilege communication device"

She has been a strong advocate in this field for quite some time. She once told me a story about this guy named Tim, who was probably one of the first people to bring this topic to the for front, just to be ridiculed about it all through out is last years as a human. They say he never did get trained, or given a password while he was a human, and nobody has ever heard from him again in the afterlife, I imagine he went off into outer space somewhere, or he is a bigger introvert than I gave him credit to be. Now when I say he went off into outer space, that does not necessarily mean outer space.. Scientist have been claiming for quite some time now, that some people when they cross over, never come out of their right brain thoughts, they believe at the time of changing form, that some people experience such a reaction mentally to it, that there thoughts take them out of pain, which is the reality side of it, and puts them in the make believe side of their thoughts, where they are left dorm ad. They say that some afterlife have been like this for billions of years. Scientist are just now starting to see the advantage now of having high spirits at this time, because even if this energy is small in size to a human body, they still do have the ability to alter other energy around them with a strong afterlife will. They just caution to some afterlife not to get to excited that they caused defects in some devices back on earth.

I guess one of the biggest break through was after they got their first successful hit on a old Brain Gate Machine, that Tim helped modified way back when. Now that they had confirmation with the modified sensor, all they had to do after that was read the area in question.

I forget what type of substance they discovered we were, I don't remember if they said we were a special type of static electricity, the kind that can move around in between waves, or that we were some type of micro, but in any case, they found us. Thanks to people like Jane Doe, who provides extra money for people like me to get access to talk to people like you.

I guess the only big difference I see now on Earth, is how so many business are catering to people like us now. Trying to take advantage of our purchasing dollar. I know the other day that Jane told me she was thinking about buying her own sensor, that was painted like a pink flower. To me all sensors are the same, what ever floats your boat.

Now looking back on it, it's hard to believe how many years they kept arguing about even doing research in that area.

I guess on one hand, even though you know one day you will be put in that situation, you still don't want to think about it. I'm was surprised by how many people at the time, did not want to know more about it, and then found them self's in the same situation I am in. Even though They have now made it possible for people like me to communicate, it is still hard to find a good career you can do, because they are never really sure I am who I say I am. Not like people like Jane Doe, who planned out her whole life, and afterlife. She knew while she was alive at the time, that they did not have the ability to do it, but she knew she loved to communicate, be it on the internet, or on her cell phone, that if the possibility did ever present itself, that she could save a lot of time, by having the training and the confirmation, by getting a her password certified in the National data base, at the World order training center in India, They actually call the building Gandhi' Place. Now Jane was trained in 2010, and they actually had there first inner astral naught success in 2050. So after they started understanding how to do it better, they decided to explore all the past people that had been trained on it first, and that is how Jane got in on the ground floor. At first they would ask her and others to try different experiments, just to see what type of challenges they might be experiencing in their environment, and they also paid them while they were doing this. You would be surprise how much money they are getting from different companies in the private sector.

Tim had a dream, but he thought it was a real, so now he thinks that we can communication with out of body afterlife; the only problem with his strange thought is that we can't prove him wrong, on the dream or the theory. We can expect him to prove it though, since he came up with the thought. He will be expected to take ownership of the thought, since he came up with it, and he needs to understand that. Now we are not apposed to the fact that other people might believe in it as well, and they are all more than welcome to make it a reality, or help Tim as he tries to find a way to make it happen.

.This example below, is hopefully will not be what comes out of this in the future. I would not have a problem with it, if it is example (2)

Imagine about fifty years from now, one of you might be telling this stories around a fake campfire, since real fires will probably be against the law by then anyway, because of global warming, and you bring up this topic at that time.

1) Back in 2007, this guy on the Internet, thought we could communicate with ghost, and he said that one day he would contact us again through a old machine called Brain Gate, and find the person who took his big toe"

(2) Back in 2007, the year we started focused on the heavens, this guy who thought we could do it, was also one of the first people to actually communicate back with us, and the first thing he communicated back after entering in his password was, "who took my big toe."

Thank you once again for reading my thoughts, and please include yours, and I will read and try and understand them as well as you are trying to understand mine.

I find through out life, things seam to work so much better, when it is a good deal for all parties involved.

Thank you,

Tim

[termite37]

Uhhh..

I think Im level 6 or more.

I cant feel my pulse! :)

When you dont have anything to back up your theories... all you will get is hardcore criticism.

BrainGate tech which I have seen on the internet, is bound to have some unusual, perhaps nasty consquences when scientists are playing god with the human brain.

I have had my share of OBE as well.. but I rather not get into that issue...

besides.. who would want to know? nor care to know?

[Molinaro]

Egads! I can't believe how far I read into that post. I can honestly say, I don't agree with anything you've said.

I don't see how to seperate what you are saying/experiencing from what someone who is delusional would say/experience.

[termite37]

Egads! I can't believe how far I read into that post. I can honestly say, I don't agree with anything you've said.

I don't see how to seperate what you are saying/experiencing from what someone who is delusional would say/experience.

I was shocked by it as well. I think he's trying to say that "braingate" is the gate to the afterlife. Also trying to say that its "possible" to communicate with dead people by the conventional means of a machine.

[Tim4848]

Don't worry about it termite37, I can't speak for everybody else but I don't like to criticize, condemn, or complain about anybody, until that person no longer exist, because I always feel they can change, so you will be OK in my book for quite some time.

After reviewing my thoughts, I do not see any reason why you shouldn't be able to see afterlife, if the situation was done right, I believe if my theory is correct.

If an atom can be seen on a micro-scope, and I assume that scientist can do that by now. Then we could also measure it that way as well. I mean if Einstein saw them years ago on some type of device, I would think we have something that can do it better now. It would be as easy as setting a time and place for that experiment as well. A temp service could set that one up.

I would be interested in the personalities of OBE people, because I believe the possibility is there because of low blood pressure and a heart that slows down to a stop, creating a situation, where the energy of your thoughts takes over, and the floating is nothing more than heat rising, brought on more with the fact that the energy just got a whole lot more energy, because it is not spread through out the body anymore. The energy I am talking about is still the same size it was when it came over with the sperm that began to grow, creating all the atoms that make up your body. Energy like that would have a field day in static electricity, it could do everything that played with Einstein head, and the whole time, Einstein did not have a clue, so do you think he treated these atoms as though they were alive, he was to busy looking at the sky, and all the other scientist at the time were just happy to get a wave out of all those critters.

If you don't know it by now, I am a free thinker, and the way I interpret things and record them, is the way you are seeing.

Question:

Has anyone ever taken the time to at watch where the energy goes after leaving dead sperm?
Maybe that is why oral sex is in the news. Anytime magnetic energy is placed in an opposite position to it's DNA, you get negitive results. I believe you see that with AIDS, and other areas as well.

Thank you for listening to my thoughts.
Tim

[athon]

Thank you for listening to my thoughts.
Tim

Instead of thanking us, why not read and think about some of ours.

Athon

[hcmom]

Instead of thanking us, why not read and think about some of ours.

Athon

Speaking for myself, I think I'd like him as far from my thoughts as possible...

[autumn1971]

No. NO atom can be seen in a range of the electromagnetic spectrum that is availiable to humans. I can not begin to rant about the unbelievable ignorance of the troll responsible for the OP. He/she claims an ROTC background, so attacks on his pre-school grammatical errors are not only justified, but mandatory! A future officer in the armed forces is unable to write a comprehensible essay? I would be appalled if this jackass was telling the truth, however, I am sure that he/she is simply an honorless troll spouting crap under an illegitimate umbrella of experiences that the author has never been close to.

[Cuddles]

Question:

Has anyone ever taken the time to at watch where the energy goes after leaving dead sperm?
Maybe that is why oral sex is in the news. Anytime magnetic energy is placed in an opposite position to it's DNA, you get negitive results. I believe you see that with AIDS, and other areas as well.

So magnetic sperm are causing AIDS? Seriously dude, you're nuts.

[Tim4848]

Dear hcmom,

I will be more than glad to read about some of yours, what would you like me to read?

Thank you,
Tim

[hcmom]

Tim, I must congratulate you. It's not easy to leave me unable to respond, and you've done it twice....

[Tim4848]

As a human; how many of their thoughts does it take to turn a light bulb on?

As an out of body human; how many of their thoughts does it take to turn a light bulb on?

And if there is such a thing as an out of body afterlife person; how many
of their thoughts does it take to turn a light bulb on?

Thank you,
Tim

[athon]

As a human; how many of their thoughts does it take to turn a light bulb on?

As an out of body human; how many of their thoughts does it take to turn a light bulb on?

And if there is such a thing as an out of body afterlife person; how many
of their thoughts does it take to turn a light bulb on?

Thank you,
Tim

Ok folks. We've been done. Swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

Hehe, very funny, whoever this is. Shame you had to overdo it with this treasure; you could have gone on for another page.

Athon

[Cuddles]

As a human; how many of their thoughts does it take to turn a light bulb on?

7

As an out of body human; how many of their thoughts does it take to turn a light bulb on?

1.5

And if there is such a thing as an out of body afterlife person; how many of their thoughts does it take to turn a light bulb on?

pi

Any other questions?

[Tim4848]

I turn on a light with a thought and my physical abilities,

a patient connected to BrainGate, can do it with only their mental abilities, but an OBE's person or an afterlife person, has no tools at this time through us, to try this as far as I am aware, but maybe Cuddles answer is just as possible.

Thank you,
Tim

[Hokulele]

pi


No, no, no. It is e. How many times do we have to go over this? Sheesh.


:)

[calebprime]

Dear Tim 4848

BrainGate is a technology that allows one to translate neural activity (brain activity) into signals that can be analyzed, or signals that can control a computer or a mechanical device. It requires some training on the part of the user, but it works.

It doesn't have anything to do with the afterlife--for several reasons. One reason is that there is no such thing as the afterlife.

Your brain is a physical organ--that's how BrainGate is possible. When your brain dies, your memories, skills, tastes, and all other aspects of your personality die with it. The only thing left of you--besides the corpse--is the memory of the people who knew you, and physical records. When, in turn, they die, the only thing left is the physical records--films, books, videos, computer memory, etc.

If you can show otherwise with solid evidence that could convince skeptics, people will engage with you on that evidence.

Lucid dreaming is a completely separate issue.

If you can't show evidence, you leave people speculating about your posting style.

To me, your writing resembles the writing of a schizophrenic--with both the positive symptoms and the negative symptoms. You also dropped some hints about former drug use, although I haven't read that carefully.

Having said that, I don't like it when people here speculate about other people's mental status. Plus you seem to enjoy pulling people's legs. You could be a youngster who enjoys a prank, but I doubt it.

One thing is certain--you're not going to get serious discussion. Making fun of your posts is only funny when it's not sad, and I don't know where to draw the line.

If you simply describe yourself to people here honestly--without a lot of nonsense-- maybe some people will speak to you honestly in return. There are all kinds of people here, including some people who describe themselves as formerly delusional schizophrenics. No one makes fun of the posts of the formerly delusional--people here listen and learn something from hearing from someone with that perspective.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Lay it out, simply, and clearly.

[hcmom]

Dear Tim 4848
...........
Lay it out, simply, and clearly.

Uh, yeah, right.....

[Tim4848]

Dear Tim 4848

BrainGate is a technology that allows one to translate neural activity (brain activity) into signals that can be analyzed, or signals that can control a computer or a mechanical device. It requires some training on the part of the user, but it works.

It doesn't have anything to do with the afterlife--for several reasons. One reason is that there is no such thing as the afterlife.

Maybe the problem is, we are not on the same page; is it easier if I call them after human, or do you have some actual proof, they can not be, because you seam to be real sure of your self.



Your brain is a physical organ--that's how BrainGate is possible. When your brain dies, your memories, skills, tastes, and all other aspects of your personality die with it. The only thing left of you--besides the corpse--is the memory of the people who knew you, and physical records. When, in turn, they die, the only thing left is the physical records--films, books, videos, computer memory, etc.

If you can show otherwise with solid evidence that could convince skeptics, people will engage with you on that evidence.

Lucid dreaming is a completely separate issue.

I agree with you on that one

If you can't show evidence, you leave people speculating about your posting style.

To me, your writing resembles the writing of a schizophrenic--with both the positive symptoms and the negative symptoms. You also dropped some hints about former drug use, although I haven't read that carefully.

So have you always had a hard time with change, or do you always find pleasure in attacking, people that you feel threaten with, please take the time to climb into your own back yard and find your own couch, and figure out your own issues, because I have forgot more things in my life, than you seem to get.


Having said that, I don't like it when people here speculate about other people's mental status. Plus you seem to enjoy pulling people's legs. You could be a youngster who enjoys a prank, but I doubt it.

You just did. I don't like to assume, but I just did that too, so i guess we are even.

One thing is certain--you're not going to get serious discussion. Making fun of your posts is only funny when it's not sad, and I don't know where to draw the line.

What would be sad, is when I start thinking i know it all, so that is why I try and learn something new everyday, maybe not to some people higher standards, but at least to my Ground Hog day comprehension

If you simply describe yourself to people here honestly--without a lot of nonsense-- maybe some people will speak to you honestly in return. There are all kinds of people here, including some people who describe themselves as formerly delusional schizophrenics. No one makes fun of the posts of the formerly delusional--people here listen and learn something from hearing from someone with that perspective.

I get a thought, I post it, I try and find ways of explaining it in Lamond terms it at all possible, and I will admit that most of them suck, but I continue to try and get better at them, you might not notice it, but I do see improvements from time to time, and everything takes it's allotted amount of time.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Lay it out, simply, and clearly.

I want us to explore my theory under this topic, like Thomas Edison explored the answer to the light bulb. He knew when he started, that he would have to try things that would not work, but he tried them just the same, because he knew he only had to find one of possibly many possibilities, that might work, even though a lot of other people at the time, were scared of change, scared of electric, and scared of trying it; do you see a connection here.
He also thought this topic was possible as well.

Thank you, from an old ex-Woodstock religious freak on drugs who thinks he's Einstein,

Tim

[wollery]

I want us to explore my theory under this topic, like Thomas Edison explored the answer to the light bulb. He knew when he started, that he would have to try things that would not work, but he tried them just the same, because he knew he only had to find one of possibly many possibilities, that might work, even though a lot of other people at the time, were scared of change, scared of electric, and scared of trying it; do you see a connection here.
He also thought this topic was possible as well.

Thank you, from an old ex-Woodstock religious freak on drugs who thinks he's Einstein,

TimFirst, it was Joseph Swan who invented the incandescent lightbulb - http://www.coolquiz.com/trivia/explain/docs/edison.asp and http://home.nycap.rr.com/useless/lightbulbs/index.html


Second, there was very good reason for him to believe that he would succeed. It was well known that electric currents passing through a conductor would cause it to heat up and glow. The problem was that it either took a thick piece of metal, and therefore a heck of a lot of electricity, or the thin wire oxidized and burned out within just a few seconds. The trick was to find some way produce a thin filament which would give out a reasonable amount of light for the electricity used, and then to protect it from the oxidization process.


Your idea is to make contact with something that nobody can even demonstrate exists, based on OBEs which are, at best, anecdotal, and can be far more easily explained as a part of the process of neurological shut down. There is no reason, beyond wishful thinking, to believe that they are real events. So to liken yourself to Edison (or Einstein for that matter) is rather egotistical, and highly inaccurate.

[calebprime]

First, it was Joseph Swan who invented the incandescent lightbulb ...



Second, there was very good reason for (Edison) to believe that he would succeed.

...

The trick was to find some way produce a thin filament which would give out a reasonable amount of light for the electricity used, and then to protect it from the oxidization process.








I want us to explore my theory under this topic, like Thomas Edison explored the answer to the light bulb. He knew when he started, that he would have to try things that would not work, but he tried them just the same...

Thank you, from an old ex-Woodstock religious freak on drugs who thinks he's Einstein,

Tim

Dear Tim,

Thank you for a direct response.

I agree with wollery that you and Edison are very different cases. He had a well-defined problem and a clear goal. His aims and means were physical.
His method was well-informed trial and error. He had a prior track-record of invention. So his goals were reasonable, just difficult.

wollery is perhaps mistaken in thinking that you are egotistical-sounding, or even grandiose. You seek inspiration in these figures, and your comparison between them and yourself is ironic.

That's fine: I like to compare myself to Bach: both of us male, coffee-drinkers, have tempers, enjoy the procreative act, putting notes on paper. There the resemblance ends.

Perhaps you can use these strange experiences. They might give you a sense of courage or compassion. You might seek out some like-minded people, and find community that way.

If you can submit your writing to editing, maybe you can write a memoir.

There's always just daily life.

Maybe you know that old zen saying: Before enlightenment: chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.

This can be translated into your own terms.

One thing, though: You know yourself well-enough to know when you're getting weird: If you genuinely think you're like Edison, or Einstein, or Jesus--or even that you can read and receive other people's thoughts--it's time to get some rest, bring yourself down.

best,

Caleb

[Tim4848]

First, it was Joseph Swan who invented the incandescent lightbulb - http://www.coolquiz.com/trivia/explain/docs/edison.asp and http://home.nycap.rr.com/useless/lightbulbs/index.html

http://www.thomasedison.com/

"I readily absorb ideas from every source, frequently starting where the last person left off."

I see no ego in this type of thinking.

http://www.astralprojectnow.com/akashicrecords.shtml

"Akashic Records
The word "Akashic" is derived from the Sanskrit word "Akasha, meaning "sky" or "ether".

The Akashic records is like the Universe's super computer system, and acts as the central storehouse of all information for every soul since the dawn of Creation. It is a complete and thorough record of everything that has ever occurred, including thoughts, feelings, every deed, word, and intent of every individual, all through time.

These records connect all consciousness, and every human supposedly contributes and has access to these Records.

Akashic records exist in the Astral realm. And if you are experienced enough in the field of Astral Projection, you can tune into the frequencies of the Akashic Records and view the past and the probabilities of the future.

The Akashic Records are said to have existed since the beginning of Creation. Just as we have various specialty libraries (e.g., medical, law), there are said to exist various Akashic Records (e.g., human, animal, plant, mineral, etc). Most writings refer to the Akashic Records in the area of human experience.

One of the greatest advantages of such a repository is to help you learn about yourself. By finding patterns of behavior that have plagued you through your past lives, you can make the effort to change them, thereby improving your future and your present.


Second, there was very good reason for him to believe that he would succeed. It was well known that electric currents passing through a conductor would cause it to heat up and glow. The problem was that it either took a thick piece of metal, and therefore a heck of a lot of electricity, or the thin wire oxidized and burned out within just a few seconds. The trick was to find some way produce a thin filament which would give out a reasonable amount of light for the electricity used, and then to protect it from the oxidization process.


Your idea is to make contact with something that nobody can even demonstrate exists, based on OBEs which are, at best, anecdotal, and can be far more easily explained as a part of the process of neurological shut down. There is no reason, beyond wishful thinking, to believe that they are real events. So to liken yourself to Edison (or Einstein for that matter) is rather egotistical, and highly inaccurate."

I see no problem in this way of thinking as well.

I do believe if I am thinking and learning as you can plainly see, then it is not an ego thing. I believe somebody has a big ego when they think they know it all.

While we are on that subject, though. I did try to read War and Peace one time, but I did not like all those weird names.

Tim

[calebprime]

...
I believe somebody has a big ego when they think they know it all.
...

Tim


This makes sense until one starts to think about it.

As an exercise, let's look at "big ego".

This basically means conceit or arrogance, or a domineering personality--or it means some sort of weird Freudian idea.

It's quite possible to believe in no afterlife and not be conceited, or be arrogant, or have a domineering personality.

It's possible to state quite clearly why the notion of an afterlife seems incoherent, without any of those unfortunate qualities:

One can point to any number of diseases or insults to the brain that affect personality and memory.

Imagine Mr. X. He develops a lesion on his occipital lobe. Loses his sight.

Something happens to his temporal lobe on the right side. (He is right-handed, with a typical brain organization.) He loses the ability to hear nuances of tones of voice, loses some spatial ability, loses the ability to hear melody.

More right hemisphere damage, this time farther forward. He loses social awareness and the ability to be concerned about his predicament.

Is he the same person?

When does he lose his soul?

He can still speak, but what he says no longer connects to the world.

Now his speech centers on the left side of his temporal lobe are gone. He can't talk any more.

Now some deep structures in the interior of his brain are damaged. He loses the ability to form new memories. He is stuck in an eternal 3-minute present.

He develops plaques and tangles in his brain from Alzheimer's. Every aspect of his being is diminished.

At what point is there a unified, whole person, and at what point is that person gone?

Supposing he suffers financial misfortune, so his money is gone, and his possessions. He doesn't dress the same. Can't afford to keep the same company.

Those around him drift away. His social world is gone.

His body becomes diseased. He no longer looks the same. Perhaps he has lost limbs, hearing, hair, teeth.

Where is the person?

You say the Akashic Records takes care of this. Why only of people? Why not every sentient being? In what sense can every thought be retrieved?

Is there any evidence for the Akashic Record, or is this only a beautiful fiction?

Why is it so important that anything endure?

What would be the consequence if it did not endure?

Why should I, calebprime, want to endure?

Why do you want to endure?

There are wonderful enduring things, like mathematics, or the stars, or even the culture of man, including War and Peace. Why are they not enough?

To summarize: Your statement is equivalent to "pride cometh before a fall" but not only is that not necessarily true (Think of Bill Gates) but its only purpose is to remind us to be humble enough in our dealings with others. It is not an injunction against having an opinion, based on something, about how the world works.

Personal conduct and theories about the world are more or less unrelated.

eta: make that last sentence: Personal conduct and grand philosophical theories about the world are more or less unrelated. That makes a little more sense.

[Tim4848]

First, it was Joseph Swan who invented the incandescent lightbulb - http://www.coolquiz.com/trivia/explain/docs/edison.asp and http://home.nycap.rr.com/useless/lightbulbs/index.html


Second, there was very good reason for him to believe that he would succeed.

I did not question what he believed at the time, I wanted you to see that he had opposition from people of his time, that it could not be done, and that anything might seam hard while you are into something that has never been done. You make it sound like this is a patent thing and it is not, this is a process thing, just like the process of my theory. I do not care who gets the fame and glory for making my theory a success. My intention for now is to point out the fact, that you can't win if you don't play, and I also do not care who might win a lottery today on that way of thinking as well.


http://www.astralprojectnow.com/neardeathexperiences.shtml

It was well known that electric currents passing through a conductor would cause it to heat up and glow. The problem was that it either took a thick piece of metal, and therefore a heck of a lot of electricity, or the thin wire oxidized and burned out within just a few seconds. The trick was to find some way produce a thin filament which would give out a reasonable amount of light for the electricity used, and then to protect it from the oxidization process.


Your idea is to make contact with something that nobody can even demonstrate exists, based on OBEs which are, at best, anecdotal,

Near-death experiences (NDE) are among the most powerful experiences that a person can have.
When people survive a close brush with death, either because of an accident or maybe because of a heart failure, the experience is known as Near-death experiences (NDEs). One most extraordinary aspect of NDEs is that the underlying pattern seems unaltered by a person's culture or belief system, religion, race, education, or any other known variable.

A person who has had an NDE normally reports being out of the Physical body, hearing buzzing or ringing sounds, moving through a dark tunnel, encountering deceased loved ones, seeing beautiful scenes and colors, hearing angelic music, feeling peaceful and at Home, learning lessons, and an indescribable radiant light full of love and affection. After this brief experience, they are told that it's not yet time to stay on the Other Side, and they rapidly journey back into the constraints of the now resuscitated physical body.

For most people the experience is joyful beyond words. The subject sometimes 'hears' the doctor pronouncing him dead when he feels intensely alive and free from physical pain. They often recount events that occurred during the period of unconsciousness with complete accuracy.

Tens of thousands of NDE cases are now on record by doctors and scientists. All these cases demonstrate a continuation of awareness beyond "death".

We could spend all this year on what you think or I think, but after we are done, we will have a book that will be bigger than War and Peace. I am not saying that it can happen or will happen, but that we should make it happen.

What does it hurt, if we try?

and can be far more easily explained as a part of the process of neurological shut down. There is no reason, beyond wishful thinking, to believe that they are real events. So to liken yourself to Edison (or Einstein for that matter) is rather egotistical, and highly inaccurate.

I wil be the first person to tell you that I am not Edison, Edison did not come back in my body, or anything else that would be considred right brain thinking.

I as you analyse things, and I am sorry that you might not have had an OBE to add to your resume thought process, but I do no see that as an ego thing, you might very well have one later today, or maybe even somebody in the future down your DNA history, will have one, but I have no control over that, I do know we have the ability to change out comes in the future, just like that movie "Back to the Future" and I do know if I try and improve everyday just like that guy in "Ground Hog Day", that is not such a bad thing, and I know if I take my thoughts to all of you, instead of entertaining them alone, with only having my own perspective is a waste o time, and I would probally end up like that guy in "Beutiful Mind". I do not just learn from Edison, Einstein, I learn from everything. I usually just use them, because some people don't really cares what the average John Doe like me thinks, so I have to spend all my time, finding examples from other people, just to make a point.

If this is the process you want to follow for example, then how much stuff do I have to go find to fill up the toilet, before it will flush on it's own, with or with out your support?


www.astralprojectnow.com/neardeathexperiences

[Tim4848]

This makes sense until one starts to think about it.

As an exercise, let's look at "big ego".

This basically means conceit or arrogance, or a domineering personality--or it means some sort of weird Freudian idea.

It's quite possible to believe in no afterlife and not be conceited, or be arrogant, or have a domineering personality.

It's possible to state quite clearly why the notion of an afterlife seems incoherent, without any of those unfortunate qualities:

One can point to any number of diseases or insults to the brain that affect personality and memory.

Imagine Mr. X. He develops a lesion on his occipital lobe. Loses his sight.

Something happens to his temporal lobe on the right side. (He is right-handed, with a typical brain organization.) He loses the ability to hear nuances of tones of voice, loses some spatial ability, loses the ability to hear melody.

More right hemisphere damage, this time farther forward. He loses social awareness and the ability to be concerned about his predicament.

Is he the same person?

When does he lose his soul?

He can still speak, but what he says no longer connects to the world.

Now his speech centers on the left side of his temporal lobe are gone. He can't talk any more.

Now some deep structures in the interior of his brain are damaged. He loses the ability to form new memories. He is stuck in an eternal 3-minute present.

He develops plaques and tangles in his brain from Alzheimer's. Every aspect of his being is diminished.

At what point is there a unified, whole person, and at what point is that person gone?

Supposing he suffers financial misfortune, so his money is gone, and his possessions. He doesn't dress the same. Can't afford to keep the same company.

Those around him drift away. His social world is gone.

His body becomes diseased. He no longer looks the same. Perhaps he has lost limbs, hearing, hair, teeth.

Where is the person?

And to think some people think I have a good imagination. Do you believe my theory is dangerious to humans, if so, please explain how my theory will make you turn out like Mr. X?


You say the Akashic Records takes care of this. Why only of people? Why not every sentient being? In what sense can every thought be retrieved?

I just found this the other day, so I am just comparing it to other things right now, but I think they are saying that it only comes to you through your right brain thoughts. This is not a left thought thing, and you probally get a lot of it while you are a sleep. Example: you go to sleep tonight and you think about a problem, let's say you only have so much gas in your car, and you need to go to the closest gas station to where you live the next day, before you run out of gas. The next morning you wake up, you review your thoughts, and this thought jumps out at you, that the BP station is the closest, and if you take the extra gas out of the garage, that you had for your lawn mower, you probally could go to a few other stations as well.
It might even give you advice on what you should do, so you never find your self in that situation again. Now all these thoughts you had, basicaaly came to you in right brain thinking. Just a thought at this point anyway.


Is there any evidence for the Akashic Record, or is this only a beautiful fiction?

Why is it so important that anything endure?

What would be the consequence if it did not endure?

Why should I, calebprime, want to endure?

Why do you want to endure?

There are wonderful enduring things, like mathematics, or the stars, or even the culture of man, including War and Peace. Why are they not enough?

To summarize: Your statement is equivalent to "pride cometh before a fall" but not only is that not necessarily true (Think of Bill Gates) but its only purpose is to remind us to be humble enough in our dealings with others. It is not an injunction against having an opinion, based on something, about how the world works.

If you feel that I am not humble, I am sorry, but sometimes when I am on this topic at this site, I feel as though I am being attacted, and I base that off of my own emphathy.

I already posted at some point, that part of my thinking is based on creating pain to my thoughts, to force it to find pleasure with it, I believe this is healthy, to stretch and grow and it also falls in line with all natural abilities.



Personal conduct and theories about the world are more or less unrelated.

Please bare with me, as I get better at this cutting and pasting this topic.

[Tim4848]

Dear Tim,

Thank you for a direct response.

I agree with wollery that you and Edison are very different cases. He had a well-defined problem and a clear goal. His aims and means were physical.
His method was well-informed trial and error. He had a prior track-record of invention. So his goals were reasonable, just difficult.

wollery is perhaps mistaken in thinking that you are egotistical-sounding, or even grandiose. You seek inspiration in these figures, and your comparison between them and yourself is ironic.

That's fine: I like to compare myself to Bach: both of us male, coffee-drinkers, have tempers, enjoy the procreative act, putting notes on paper. There the resemblance ends.

Perhaps you can use these strange experiences. They might give you a sense of courage or compassion. You might seek out some like-minded people, and find community that way.

If you can submit your writing to editing, maybe you can write a memoir.

There's always just daily life.

Maybe you know that old zen saying: Before enlightenment: chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.

This can be translated into your own terms.

One thing, though: You know yourself well-enough to know when you're getting weird: If you genuinely think you're like Edison, or Einstein, or Jesus--or even that you can read and receive other people's thoughts--it's time to get some rest, bring yourself down.

best,

Caleb

Thank you,

Tim


P.S. I love to sleep, maybe that is the problem, if I am floating out of my bady at night, as some people claim, maybe that is just adding to my thought process.

Example:

http://www.astralprojectnow.com/aura.shtml

The human aura is an energy field that reflects the subtle life energies within the body. These energies make us what we are and in turn are affected by our surroundings and life style. The aura reflects our health, mental activity and emotional state. It also shows disease - often long before the onset of symptoms.

Close to the skin is the etheric aura. It is seen as a pale, narrow band that outlines the body, usually no more than half an inch wide. It looks like pale smoke clinging to the body. This is the visible part of the etheric body in it's contracted state. During sleep the etheric body expands greatly and opens to absorb and store cosmic energy. The etheric is better named the vitality sheath or energy body. After sleep it contracts, forming a dense sheath around the body close to the skin.

The main aura is banded around the body - strata like. Imagine a person with thick, coloured hoops of light dropped over them and you get the idea. These colours emanate from the chakras. Basic energy is drawn up from the planet through the feet and fed into the chakras, much like a plant does with water. Each chakra is a transformer that generates energy of a different type and colour. The strength of each chakra depends on the person's nature and life style. Together these chakras generate the dominant hue of the aura.

[Tim4848]

Let's say some time and let me figure out who I am with your help at a later time to save time, and get back to the topic at hand.

Check this out,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumental_transcommunication

Thank you,

Tim

[calebprime]

the whole point of my somewhat macabre deconstruction of Mr. X was to get you to consider, on good evidence, that mental functioning is based on the physical brain. You can't take your brain with you.

I'm not just being cruel. That was not just a thought experiment. Disease and its effect on mental function isn't something I made up.

Death, and its unfortunate effect on the brain isn't something I made up to be gloomy--it's a fact of life.

As a girl (the one surrounded by the halo) once said to me:

"Things are as they are."

Can't argue with that.

[Tim4848]

Dear calebprime, are you telling me that energy can be destroyed, because I don't see it, and I doubt you will find a scientist who will either.

Just a thought.

Thank you,
Tim

[wollery]

Tim, I don't think you understand what Calebprime is trying to ask you. I don't think you understood the point I was making either.

We'll start with my point - it doesn't hurt anyone to try to communicate with OBE spirits, but the comparison to scientists such as Edison or Einstein is false, because there is no evidence, beyond anecdote, to suggest that such a thing would be possible. You might want to read some of the threads in the General skepticism section of this forum about mediums and psychics for more information.

Calebprime's question was about the nature of the souls that you are trying to detect. If a person can be so brain damaged that they have no higher brain function, and no sense of self, then where is their soul? Has it already left their body? Was it ever there to begin with? But more importantly, since our ability to think and empathise are often promoted as those qualities which prove we have souls, and brain damage can remove those qualities without the death of that person, does that not suggest that they are properties of the brain, and not some ethereal soul? If that is the case then brain death, which is a natural consequence of body death, would be the end of all of those functions. There would be no carrying over of thoughts to some other place, since, without the brain, there would be no medium for those thoughts to propogate in.



Footnote - Inventors and scientists almost always base their work on what came before, that's how it works, but in the case of the lightbulb Edison simply copied Swan's bulb and then announced grandly that he'd invented something new, almost a year after Swan had publicly demonstrated that it worked. Moreover, lightbulbs had been produced some 50 years before Swan's bulb, they just weren't practical!

[Tim4848]

Thank you Wollery for explaining it better.

Please let me explain, you might be right, some people might have timely defects in their DNA energy, that might happen long before they die, I will give you that, but we really don't know for sure the other way.

I believe the ability to communicate with possible afterlife people is in the details of the process, and like ant process, it is going to have to take it's allotted amount of time. I have no control over that, maybe it we had invested more research in this area, that process would be shorter, but who really knows anyway.

I know from experience that if I put my finger in a light socket, that the current makes me feel as though it wants me to become a part of it's loop, and I am far bigger than it is, in the space we are occupying in my room, not to mention the reaction it is having on my human body, now I can take a smaller amount of energy like static electricity, and feel as though I have more freedom, with the will to move. I can not prove it at this time, but maybe that is the problem that faces out of body afterlife energy spirits.

If they follow a light, they might be lured into a power of energy that is far greater than that of a static electricity field.

As I have said before, If they do exist, it would have to be do in part, to the magnetic field that they live in, and how well they debt to that increment, as we adept to the one we are put in.

In short, we don't hang out around electrical wires or lightning and they should not either while this study is going on.

We do not think twice about saving whales that go up rivers the wrong way, regardless of how it will turn out or the cost.

It almost looks like we don't want to know, and I hope that is not the case.

I have no proof that they will respond to this option, and I have no proof that they won't as well, but it is an option just the same, if they elect to try it.

When we had fire drills at school, I did not know if the school was on fire or not, I just followed the plan, over and over, and I could do it with no help from others after I got it.

Think about this for a second:
The computer geeks tell me that my Internet connection is set up right, but they also warn me, that you have the ability to do what ever you want to do, and if you decide that you do not want to reply to my topic, then that is your choice.

I would just like to give potential afterlife the same type of opportunity.



Let's say that the Government gets an extra Brain Gate and they place it in a good location, and they make sure people know where it is at, they also give other people the opportunity to get training on the machine, those type of things are always possible in an election year. Politicians sure do like to promise things.

They have connected all type of different sensors to it, set on all type of different frequencies, that do not create electrical loops or power surges that are greater than a static electricity field.

The machine at this point will be use as it was intended to be use while in training mode, with only minor modifications done to the software, that would not be notice by the potential patient.

I expect the energy level might be a little stronger, and I also expect the signal to be shorter, but I also feel that part of it can be modified as well. Machine language is the first thing that comes to my mind on that issue.

These types of modifications will also be a part of experiments done before the patient was put in this second situation to begin with, signals that might be as short as that of machine language.

Let's say the software and forum for this experiment is the same format as this site.

We shoulders always make it our goal to always have a the best devise in place for every new generation, always trying to get this to evolve, as we evolve, and if we do wind up having computer chips in planted in our minds in the future, and we also evolve from that experience as well, then if this connection does not work now, its chances might increase in the future, with that type of technology as well.

If you do get mail from this possibility, it will be date stamped, they would of had to had entered a private code, and anything else is just extra.

Before anybody could actually see their reply, it would have been studied and reviewed by the government, before approval to the general public.

Then you get your reply, you might send them one, and then it takes off on a smaller scale than cell phones, and hopefully the process will continue to repeat it self, just like everything else we do.

Let's say it does not work.

We continue to live our lives the way we want, and we have the peace of mind of knowing that we did the best we could at that time in our life.

People makes these type of chooses everyday, just like the city that might have to buy a big red fire truck, even thought it might never be used in a actual fire. It's the possibility that it might be needed.

Peace of mind

I do not know if lightning will ever hit my house, but I still have a negative line going into the ground as Franklin discovered.

I might never get in a car wreck, but I still wear my seatbelt

I place a bug zapper on my back porch, because my gut tells me that a bug might want to get me tonight, and I am counting on my bug zapper to get it first.

I understand that scientist want to understand how it will work before it works, but I also know, that they know the power of supply and demand.

If people decide they are willing to explore this possibility, and they ask their next President for research and development in this new and exciting field, then some candidate has a decision to make, votes or past traditions in the scientific field of study.

I am not asking you to re-invent the wheel, we already have the machine, science has prove the machine works with humans. Now let's see if it works with those same humans again down the road.

Thank you for listening to my thoughts.
Tim

[Taffer]

Question:

Has anyone ever taken the time to at watch where the energy goes after leaving dead sperm?
Maybe that is why oral sex is in the news. Anytime magnetic energy is placed in an opposite position to it's DNA, you get negitive results. I believe you see that with AIDS, and other areas as well.

I'm sorry, but you show a complete lack of understanding in genetics and biology.

[wollery]

Thank you Wollery for explaining it better.

Please let me explain, you might be right, some people might have timely defects in their DNA energy, that might happen long before they die, I will give you that, but we really don't know for sure the other way.

.....snip......

I am not asking you to re-invent the wheel, we already have the machine, science has prove the machine works with humans. Now let's see if it works with those same humans again down the road.

Thank you for listening to my thoughts.
TimI've read a lot of your thoughts, and my reaction is this.

You appear to have no understanding of the scientific method, scientific fact, or the method of funding scientific research.

You want to investigate a phenomenon which may not even exist, based on anecdotal evidence of events which can be better explained by purely physiological means. You propose to use a machine which can only be operated after a fair bit of training and practice, and have it operated by the spirits of dead people who had no idea how to use it when they were alive, on the assumptions that their "energy" carried on after death (an assumption for which there is no basis) and that they would wish to communicate in such a fashion (which suggests that they would be capable of affecting electric circuits, so why don't they just use computers?). And you want the government to fund and run this investigation. :nope:

It's a bad hypothesis, based on incredibly shoddy reasoning (and a theory that has a large amount of evidence against it), with a poorly designed experiment (which has no experimental controls), and if you applied for funding to any scientific funding body they'd shake their heads and drop the application in the bin after reading the first paragraph, if they even got that far.

Ask all the questions you like, the experiment will never happen.

[my_wan]

(Screams to settle nerves after reading such gobbledygook :shocked: )

Ok... ok... You keep asking we take your "theory" at face value (=0) so lets assume a braingate will work for a disembodies entity :eye-poppi (OBE). What do you you need a braingate for to make your case? Learn morse code and use an antenna. In fact if your future dead self remains as an electromagnetic field there are more ways to communicate with the living than I can count. Oh no we're dead!!! Hey let's go mess with the SETI people :biggrin:. We understand electricity and the technology used by braingate et al well enough that to know that if you are right the only thing to stop us from talking with the living with technologies in everyday use would be the ghost cops :(.

My OBE (sort of)
When I was still going to grade school I had a dream I was on a bicycle being chased by someone else on a bicycle across my home town. Suddenly I realized I was dreaming which woke me up. That's when it got interesting. Although I was well awake instead of the dream images going away the image zoomed way up in the air. I was looking down at myself still on the bicycle going down main street with the other guy behind. I thought about other strange dreams I had had but none were like this. It occurred to me that if I opened my eyes the image would go away so I began looking around at the town. I couldn't actually move because attempting to do so just made me aware of my body. I didn't want that. I could see a Killdeer roaming the gravel tops of the building near its' nest. Sparrows nesting in various holes in the building. I looked over at the railroad tracks on the west end of main street. Then thought to look at the east end toward my Aunts house. I starred at it a while hoping to see someone I knew come out. Never happened. Then I decided to open my eyes real quick and shut them again to see if the image would go away. It did. Since then there have been a couple of instances where I woke up before the visual dreaming actually stopped but only momentarily. Yes I really was wide awake.

This experience might actually provides clues to what an OBE is. If the visual cortex can remain in a dream state while the higher brain functions remains awake then the perception would be determined by the beliefs of the person experiencing it. For instance it never occurred to me that I might actually have separated from my body. Therefore any attempt at moving required me to consider my body potentially corrupting the experience (waking my visual cortex). If this is what is occurring there is no innate reason why some people can't have there visual cortex go into a dream state without their higher brain functions ever reaching a sleep state first. A dreaming visual cortex would then blindly serve up the definition of the situation the same way it does in a regular dream. It would be very closely related to sleep paralysis where the motor cortex fails to wake up when you do.

[Tim4848]

I'm sorry, but you show a complete lack of understanding in genetics and biology.

Everything can be measures, I did not know that we have magnets in out body, but scientist say we do, and they can measure that. For years they did not think that was possible, because you can not stick a magnet next to you, and it Will stick, but we still have them just the same. On this show about magnets that comes on TV every once in awhile, and I have the name of it written down somewhere, they assumed these magnets were used in some way earlier in our evolution, they did not talk about how it might be used for us now, or in the future. That is the problem with always wanting evidence first, it limits your thoughts to explore.

Could those magnets in our brains be a back up plan for our energy, when it is time to jump this big apple. Your energy is always taking you out of pain and into pleasure.

Thank you,
Tim

[Oualawouzou]

(must you absolutely color your posts bright red?)

If I recall my physics classes well, any electrical current will generate a magnetic field. Our nervous system uses electrical impulses. Therefore, we generate a (completely insignificant) magnetic field.

It has nothing to do with mystical voyages through space and time, ancient and forgotten knowledge about the power of the human mind or a back-up energy source. It's a side effect, and an incredibly minor one, of having a nervous system relying on electrical impulses.

And I'll ask you to provide a cite for all those scientists puzzled by why humans cannot stick fridge magnets to themselves. It is a common woo tactic: talk about how "scientists" cannot explain this, how "science" is baffled by that, all the while carefully avoiding mentionning any name or source.

[Taffer]

Everything can be measures, I did not know that we have magnets in out body, but scientist say we do, and they can measure that. For years they did not think that was possible, because you can not stick a magnet next to you, and it Will stick, but we still have them just the same. On this show about magnets that comes on TV every once in awhile, and I have the name of it written down somewhere, they assumed these magnets were used in some way earlier in our evolution, they did not talk about how it might be used for us now, or in the future.

Because they are scientists. That is what they do.

That is the problem with always wanting evidence first, it limits your thoughts to explore.

No. Always waiting for evidence limits your thoughts to reality. I can imagine any number of things. Almost all of them are untrue.

Could those magnets in our brains be a back up plan for our energy, when it is time to jump this big apple.

No. I do not even know how to begin to describe how wrong this question is (btw, questions end with a question mark).

Your energy is always taking you out of pain and into pleasure.

I don't even know what that means.

[Tim4848]

I've read a lot of your thoughts, and my reaction is this.

You appear to have no understanding of the scientific method, scientific fact, or the method of funding scientific research.

You are right, I have never committed my time and energy to any one field, except this topic.

You want to investigate a phenomenon which may not even exist,

50%, that percentage might be higher or lower depending on other factors

based on anecdotal evidence of events which can be better explained by purely physiological means.

Please fill free to keep explaining it with physiological means, as I keep exploring it more. Most things that happen in life, is a result of somebody elses anecdotal evidence, and then you build off of that.

You propose to use a machine which can only be operated after a fair bit of training and practice,

That is correct, only a handful of people at first will get the opportunity, most likely those will be patients of BrainGate, and if they are successful at some point in the future, then it could so ball from there. A course will expect easier machines to use, and they will want a product that they could use in there home, that will be connected to there electronic devices. How far in the future do you want to see? All I am asking you at this time stamp of reality, is to do something as easy as saying what the heck, let's do something.

and have it operated by the spirits of dead people who had no idea how to use it when they were alive,

This sounds like low self esteem to change and a victem attitude, by the time the private sector gets ready to sell this product to the masses, you will want to race to have it done, that is what a marketing department does.
This topic will stimulate the economy, during a time when our economy needs some stimulation.

on the assumptions that their "energy" carried on after death (an assumption for which there is no basis)

Scientist say energy can't be destroyed, so what assumtion am I making?

and that they would wish to communicate in such a fashion (which suggests that they would be capable of affecting electric circuits, so why don't they just use computers?).

They don't run anything, all they have to do is the same training they did before. This type of machine is designed to listen, computers are designed to move electric.


And you want the government to fund and run this investigation. :nope:

The goverment always has there hand in this type of stuff for the security side of it



It's a bad hypothesis, based on incredibly shoddy reasoning (and a theory that has a large amount of evidence against it), with a poorly designed experiment (which has no experimental controls), and if you applied for funding to any scientific funding body they'd shake their heads and drop the application in the bin after reading the first paragraph, if they even got that far.

Ask all the questions you like, the experiment will never happen.

and people talk about me knowing the future,

Thank you,
Tim

[Tim4848]

(must you absolutely color your posts bright red?)

If I recall my physics classes well, any electrical current will generate a magnetic field. Our nervous system uses electrical impulses. Therefore, we generate a (completely insignificant) magnetic field.

No part of any magentic field is insignificant to any form of energy in my theory.

It has nothing to do with mystical voyages through space and time, ancient and forgotten knowledge about the power of the human mind or a back-up energy source. It's a side effect, and an incredibly minor one, of having a nervous system relying on electrical impulses.

Please fill free to list where you get your information from.

And I'll ask you to provide a cite for all those scientists puzzled by why humans cannot stick fridge magnets to themselves. It is a common woo tactic: talk about how "scientists" cannot explain this, how "science" is baffled by that, all the while carefully avoiding mentionning any name or source.

It is not that I don't carefully not mention the name, it is because I get the just of a topic and move on, but I will get that information for you.

Thank you,
Tim

[Tim4848]

(Screams to settle nerves after reading such gobbledygook :shocked: )

Ok... ok... You keep asking we take your "theory" at face value (=0) so lets assume a braingate will work for a disembodies entity :eye-poppi (OBE). What do you you need a braingate for to make your case?

Just leave one running 24/7, and give anybody that has been trained on this machine as a human an opportunity to make it work after they pass away o natural causes, and that is if they would like to be a part of the study. I would like to think we could at least find one patient who would be willing to try it.


Learn morse code and use an antenna. In fact if your future dead self remains as an electromagnetic field there are more ways to communicate with the living than I can count. Oh no we're dead!!! Hey let's go mess with the SETI people :biggrin:. We understand electricity and the technology used by braingate et al well enough that to know that if you are right the only thing to stop us from talking with the living with technologies in everyday use would be the ghost cops :(.

It might also have to do with the fact that we are not focused on it, and you are giving afterlife energy that can't be destroyed as scientist say way to much credit, and we are to early in this research to even think a conspiricy is involved. Who should we blame that on, the cave man?

My OBE (sort of)
When I was still going to grade school I had a dream I was on a bicycle being chased by someone else on a bicycle across my home town. Suddenly I realized I was dreaming which woke me up. That's when it got interesting. Although I was well awake instead of the dream images going away the image zoomed way up in the air. I was looking down at myself still on the bicycle going down main street with the other guy behind. I thought about other strange dreams I had had but none were like this. It occurred to me that if I opened my eyes the image would go away so I began looking around at the town. I couldn't actually move because attempting to do so just made me aware of my body. I didn't want that. I could see a Killdeer roaming the gravel tops of the building near its' nest. Sparrows nesting in various holes in the building. I looked over at the railroad tracks on the west end of main street. Then thought to look at the east end toward my Aunts house. I starred at it a while hoping to see someone I knew come out. Never happened. Then I decided to open my eyes real quick and shut them again to see if the image would go away. It did. Since then there have been a couple of instances where I woke up before the visual dreaming actually stopped but only momentarily. Yes I really was wide awake.

So I am on the same page with you, were you actually on a bicycle when all this happened, before and after?

This experience might actually provides clues to what an OBE is. If the visual cortex can remain in a dream state while the higher brain functions remains awake then the perception would be determined by the beliefs of the person experiencing it. For instance it never occurred to me that I might actually have separated from my body. Therefore any attempt at moving required me to consider my body potentially corrupting the experience (waking my visual cortex). If this is what is occurring there is no innate reason why some people can't have there visual cortex go into a dream state without their higher brain functions ever reaching a sleep state first. A dreaming visual cortex would then blindly serve up the definition of the situation the same way it does in a regular dream. It would be very closely related to sleep paralysis where the motor cortex fails to wake up when you do.

It make you start to think about a lot of different things,

Thank you,
Tim

[Oualawouzou]

No part of any magentic field is insignificant to any form of energy in my theory.


So far, your theory has been shown to have no basis. Doesn't that bother you?

Please fill free to list where you get your information from.

Since I don't have my high school physics books anymore, I'll have to go with a quick online reference:

First, magnetic field in regards to electrical current:
http://www-spof.gsfc.nasa.gov/Education/wmfield.html

The baby is getting annoyed, so I can't afford to wade through more magnet-healing sites for a cite regarding the human body. Anybody who read this, please feel free to drop in.
[/quote]

It is not that I don't carefully not mention the name, it is because I get the just of a topic and move on, but I will get that information for you.

Thank you,
Tim

Thank you, much appreciated.

ETA: Quick, while she's eating dessert!

http://skeptically.org/quackery/id4.html

Lots of good stuff there.

[Tim4848]

Dear Oualawouzou,

I guess a good place to start my basis, is the fact that I am made up of energy, that my thoughts believe it can happen seperate from my openion at the time, it put me in that situation for a short time, as it will do with others, and science already knows that energy can not be destroyed.

Thank you,
Tim

[my_wan]

It might also have to do with the fact that we are not focused on it, and you are giving afterlife energy that can't be destroyed as scientist say way to much credit, and we are to early in this research to even think a conspiricy is involved. Who should we blame that on, the cave man?


I say SETI and you say "fact that we are not focused on it". Is the irony of that what prompted you to mention "conspiricy"? I'm not sure whether to assume you meant what you said; "you are giving afterlife energy that can't be destroyed as scientist say way to much credit". In fact you seem to say I'm giving the afterlife too much credit!!!! Please never ever say "as scientist say" ever. At best it is a Red Herring. In this case it is much worse.


I'm finding your sentences so difficult I started assuming English wasn't your first language, so I did some quick trolling. It appears English is your language. You said earlier on this thread you were once a Vice President for a Financial company which is.... Uhhh. Your statement about "Chess Master" suspiciously mirrors your train of thought two days ago only it wasn't you. This makes "pool champion" suspect as that is what the other guy was in chess. I wonder what there is to analyze about pool? So it was only last week your parents told you you passed out at one week old? A bit strange after 48 years. I suspect a diagnoses that you would probably find insulting, though none is intended.

[Oualawouzou]

Dear Oualawouzou,

I guess a good place to start my basis, is the fact that I am made up of energy,

First, let's make sure we define our terms... Do you consider "matter" and "energy" synonymous?

that my thoughts believe it can happen seperate from my openion at the time, it put me in that situation for a short time, as it will do with others,

Second... er... I can't make heads or tails of this. Could you rephrase it?

and science already knows that energy can not be destroyed.

Thank you,
Tim

True. Bodies decompose when you die. (layman alert! Correct me if need be.) And since dying stops the processes through which the body generates energy (such as heat), matter that would have been consumed to produce that energy is merely not consumed until it decomposes.

Your body converts matter to energy all the time while you are alive. It stops converting matter to energy when you die. The matter that makes up your body then decomposes. What's so mysterious about it?

[Tim4848]

I say SETI and you say "fact that we are not focused on it". Is the irony of that what prompted you to mention "conspiricy"? I'm not sure whether to assume you meant what you said; "you are giving afterlife energy that can't be destroyed as scientist say way to much credit". In fact you seem to say I'm giving the afterlife too much credit!!!! Please never ever say "as scientist say" ever. At best it is a Red Herring. In this case it is much worse.


I'm finding your sentences so difficult I started assuming English wasn't your first language, so I did some quick trolling. It appears English is your language. You said earlier on this thread you were once a Vice President for a Financial company which is.... Uhhh. Your statement about "Chess Master" suspiciously mirrors your train of thought two days ago only it wasn't you. This makes "pool champion" suspect as that is what the other guy was in chess. I wonder what there is to analyze about pool? So it was only last week your parents told you you passed out at one week old? A bit strange after 48 years. I suspect a diagnoses that you would probably find insulting, though none is intended.

Why is it everytime I give you a good a straight answer to a question about how I feel, you decide to attack me instead, does that some how take away from the answer.

Thank you,
Tim

[Tim4848]

First, let's make sure we define our terms... Do you consider "matter" and "energy" synonymous?



Second... er... I can't make heads or tails of this. Could you rephrase it?

If you were focused on something else at the time, like I was analyzing a curtain shot in pool, and all of a sudden you here this voice in your head say
something like "We want to be communicated with" Would you believe it? I did not at the time.

True. Bodies decompose when you die. (layman alert! Correct me if need be.)

I think we all understand that part

And since dying stops the processes through which the body generates energy (such as heat), matter that would have been consumed to produce that energy is merely not consumed until it decomposes.

[COLOR="red"]Is all you energy a all or nothing deal at this time, that is what we do not know for sure, can some of it still work in a neutral static electricity invirement, that is what we do not know, and that is what we should check, once again because science saids energy can not be destroyed, not like a camp fire that you can see. scientist already know that all type of information can be stored on things that are that small nowCOLOR]




Your body converts matter to energy all the time while you are alive. It stops converting matter to energy when you die. The matter that makes up your body then decomposes. What's so mysterious about it?

Your body was started by the transfer of energy, before it could even think about creating energy, so it just as easily could transfer that energy back into a static electricity field, like the invisible force.
What is so mysterious about that,

Thank you,
Tim

[wollery]

Ah, Tim, I think I see your problem. You seem to think of the energy used for thought processes as some sort of coherent "lump" of energy, that is constantly in existence. It isn't. It is true that energy cannot be created or destroyed, but it can be transformed from one form of energy to another, and actually has to be in order for anything to happen.

Energy can be considered as the potential to do something, but in order to do that thing the energy must be converted to a different form (e.g. gravitational potential energy is converted to kinetic energy when an object is dropped, electrical potential energy is converted to heat and light in a lightbulb).

The energy that we use for the thinking process is gained from stored chemical energy in our food, converted to electrical energy in the brain's neurons, and then dissipated as heat energy when we think. When the body dies the supply of energy is cut off, and the brain uses up the last of the energy that's stored in the brain, most likely in the form of an OBE. Once that energy is used up the brain dies.

So, the question for you is simple. Assuming for a second that Out of Body People exist, you have to show where they get the energy required to think, or operate the machine you want them to operate. As soon as they do either of these the energy they have will be used and converted to a different form of energy, most likely heat. In order to keep thinking they need a source of energy, and you need to show what that energy source is before we go any further.


As a little aside, you stated in an earlier response to me, that the chance of OBEs being real was 50%, give or take a little depending on circumstances. You've taken an either/or situation, and equated that to a 50/50 probability. This shows quite well that you also have no idea of statistics or probability. I'll give you some examples to illustrate this point. If I roll a dice I can get a six, or I can get another number. So, I have an either/or situation, but the probability of getting a six when I roll a dice is 1 in 6 (assuming the dice isn't loaded), not 1 in 2, so the either/or situation doesn't result in a 50/50 chance. To take an even more extreme example, when I go out of my home I will either be hit on the head by a meteorite, or I won't. The probability of me being hit on the head by a meteorite is so small as to be virtually zero - it's practically incalculably small, not 50/50 as your approach to probability would suggest. And what we know about the science of the situation would tend to suggest that the probability of OBEs being real is significantly less than the probability of me being hit on the head by a meteorite when I go out tomorrow.

[Oualawouzou]

I mean no offense, Tim, but have you ever, ever considered the possibility hearing voices in your head could be a sign of your brain playing tricks on you? Have you ever opened up about this matter to someone who actually spent a few years learning how the brain works? The brain is what we use to make sense of the world; when something starts working funny with the brain, it is extremely common for the affected person to be unable to take a step back and objectively evaluate the situation. Hearing voices in your head and using only your own interpretation to evaluate their reality is a big huge red flag.

[wollery]

Sorry Oualawouzou, but where did he mention hearing voices?

I must have missed that.

[Oualawouzou]

A few posts up this page. The formatting is messed up so his response is within a quote of one of my posts, so here's the relevant bit:

If you were focused on something else at the time, like I was analyzing a curtain shot in pool, and all of a sudden you here this voice in your head say
something like "We want to be communicated with" Would you believe it? I did not at the time.


I take it to mean he got started when he suddenly heard a voice in his head telling him it wanted to communicate.

[wollery]

A few posts up this page. The formatting is messed up so his response is within a quote of one of my posts, so here's the relevant bit:



I take it to mean he got started when he suddenly heard a voice in his head telling him it wanted to communicate.Oh, fair enough.

Why is it that certain people can work out how to make text appear in colour, but can't figure out the quote function?

[my_wan]

Why is it everytime I give you a good a straight answer to a question about how I feel, you decide to attack me instead, does that some how take away from the answer.

Thank you,
Tim

That's just the problem Tim. There was no straight answer. You sentence stated the opposite of what I -think- you were trying to say. Also unless you want to stick to the idea that the SETI people don't "focus" on their equipement your main point is moot. If a brain machine can respond to dead people me and thousands of already dead people would have to trouble whatsoever talking to the SETI (and many other) people period.

Admittidly the post may be considered ruthless but the difficulty in communication for me begged the question as to why. The problems extended well beyond just a communication problem. You don't need mine or anybodies elses help to prove your case if you are correct. Actually the dead wouldn't need your help either.

[calebprime]

The part about hearing voices was consistent with everything else, whether it was intended as just an example or not.

Tim, you're simply not going to find what you're seeking here.

Even if you posted in Religion and Philosophy, you won't find it there, either.

Good luck to you.

[Tim4848]

To whom it may concern,

I have started another thread called the Department of Negative Possibilities, please feel free to copy your why questions to that site, this tread is intended for people with positive thoughts to focus on the possibility, instead of a probability.

I do not want this topic to end like this forum I came across below:



http://www.worlditc.org/


by itcmark on Jan. 07, 2005 00:09

I‘Ive been asked why we‘re closing the forum. It was getting unwieldy.
Doubters insisting on convincing us and everyone else that the work is phony.
People insisting on getting information from us when it is already available on the website.
They lack the time or inclination to search and research and want us to give our time to them for this.
For us it is like jumping off the ladder everyday and starting from the bottom.
Not the best use of our time.
Also, the bickering and dissension work against resonance.
Discussing differences of opinion in order to find common ground is a good thing in general, but our website probably is not‘t the best forum for that if it causes aggravation and stirs up the adrenaline of many visitors to the site.
Our main aim is to inform and allow people to use our information to grow at their own pace.
Wild dialog works against that, getting people‘s emotions in turmoil.
So, that‘s my position.

Here‘s what Rolf wrote to one visitor:

"We close the Forum because it is not fruitful enough and too much work to deal with all those ideas and feelings. As I see it people are not willing to work--it is easier to talk only. :-) They simply don‘t read the basics of ITC and in case they read it they don‘t agree or they don‘t understand. We can‘t start every 3 weeks at the bottom again. People might lift their level of information also. "


Thank you,
Tim

[wollery]

Around here we value two sided debate, including pros and cons, and we value the asking of questions. This is after all a skeptic forum, and asking questions is pretty much the definition of skepticism.

So if you don't want a two way debate, and you don't want to be questioned, we'll leave you all alone in this thread to mentally masturbate discuss the possibilities with yourself.

[athon]

Oh, fair enough.

Why is it that certain people can work out how to make text appear in colour, but can't figure out the quote function?

I've wondered exactly the same thing. I don't think I've ever used different colours in a post (and, to be frank, I'm not even sure how to without looking it up). Different fonts and sized letters are also common amongst the oddities who come through.

I gave up trying to decipher this guy long again. Well done those who are continuing the effort. I still think this one's a failed turing device.

Athon

[Loss Leader]

this tread is intended for people with positive thoughts to focus on the possibility, instead of a probability.


As a debate tactic, it ranks up there with the Secret Service removing anyone wearing an anti-war t-shirt before a George Bush appearance (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/01/04/INGPQ40MB81.DTL).

Good luck with your one-sided debate, Tim. That's how all scientific progress has been made - utter unwillingness to address criticism.

[Tim4848]

Ah, Tim, I think I see your problem. You seem to think of the energy used for thought processes as some sort of coherent "lump" of energy, that is constantly in existence. It isn't. It is true that energy cannot be created or destroyed, but it can be transformed from one form of energy to another, and actually has to be in order for anything to happen.

Energy can be considered as the potential to do something, but in order to do that thing the energy must be converted to a different form (e.g. gravitational potential energy is converted to kinetic energy when an object is dropped, electrical potential energy is converted to heat and light in a lightbulb).

The energy that we use for the thinking process is gained from stored chemical energy in our food, converted to electrical energy in the brain's neurons, and then dissipated as heat energy when we think. When the body dies the supply of energy is cut off, and the brain uses up the last of the energy that's stored in the brain, most likely in the form of an OBE. Once that energy is used up the brain dies.




So, the question for you is simple. Assuming for a second that Out of Body People exist, you have to show where they get the energy required to think, or operate the machine you want them to operate.

You are right that question is simple, please fill free to measure once the results happen from the future afterlife out of body people.

Maybe they can not do it, maybe they don't have the correct type of energy to make this possibility less likely, but that should not stop us from pursuing different way of making it happen. In life we need a purpose. I can see no other purpose that is more worth exploring than this one, because if we can get people focused on possibilities like this one, maybe they would be less likely to be focused on other ones, that might be of a even more negative possibility.

I believe this topic should be discussed in school, if it affects 10 percent of people, at some point in their future, as it has effected many, then it should be discussed more.

Please fill free to explain to me where the down side is to this topic, when you can not prove it is not possible?

When so many people can see it, touch it and feel it, and you can not prove it is not possible, then this is where the right brain and the left brain has to come to a compromise, hope-vs-common sense. I do not want you to get the impression that I want to talk you into thinking it is a possibility, all I am saying is anything is possible if we focus on it.

Perfect example:

I say we can do it, you say we can't. I say I can prove it is possible, and you are suppose to say, prove it, but then you don't give me the tools to prove it, you want me to prove something that you know, you don't know the answer to either,as we go round and round about something that will come into play at a different time and place. As much as I love Roller Coasters, I really think it is in our best interest, to try my theory. They say that eighty percent of Americans believe there is some type of life after death, I'm just explaining that this might be what it will be like.



As soon as they do either of these the energy they have will be used and converted to a different form of energy, most likely heat. In order to keep thinking they need a source of energy, and you need to show what that energy source is before we go any further.


All I know at this point is this thought wants it to happen, and I know you see some holes, where this possibility might mean something.


As a little aside, you stated in an earlier response to me, that the chance of OBEs being real was 50%, give or take a little depending on circumstances. You've taken an either/or situation, and equated that to a 50/50 probability. This shows quite well that you also have no idea of statistics or probability. I'll give you some examples to illustrate this point. If I roll a dice I can get a six, or I can get another number. So, I have an either/or situation, but the probability of getting a six when I roll a dice is 1 in 6 (assuming the dice isn't loaded), not 1 in 2, so the either/or situation doesn't result in a 50/50 chance. To take an even more extreme example, when I go out of my home I will either be hit on the head by a meteorite, or I won't. The probability of me being hit on the head by a meteorite is so small as to be virtually zero - it's practically incalculably small, not 50/50 as your approach to probability would suggest. And what we know about the science of the situation would tend to suggest that the probability of OBEs being real is significantly less than the probability of me being hit on the head by a meteorite when I go out tomorrow.

Your right, because my odds are even higher when you take it down to the size of an atom. Science does not like the fact that they can not explain why curtain atoms behave the way they do, and they hate it even worse, when some low life as my self, uses it as an escape goat for any question concerning this topic, but it still holds true and with good reason.

Has science ever try to alter atoms activity by posting signs, explaining what they are trying to do with the atoms, or did they prepare a plan to even communicate with future afterlife, the answer is no, because they would feel to embarrassed to even try such a thing, and that is what is wrong with science today. People that are in position to actually study anything to do with atoms, do it with there left brain, not there right, and that is a mistake, just like limiting women into science or other topic's because they are not good at math. They should be welcomed into any field of science with out being measured. The right brain needs to go hand in hand with the left brain, and I don't believe it is being done enough in this field of study.

This is a field of study that needs to explore different avenues, before writing it off as a six. Six is never a good number any way you look at it.

[Tim4848]

I'm sorry, I lost track what topic I was under, I thought I was under the negative side of it.


By all means, now that it is positive again I hope, let's proceed by examining some other sites:

http://www.survivalafterdeath.org/articles/carter/consciousness.htm

Thank you,
Tim

[Tim4848]

Please fill free to check out site number two

http://www.creative-evolution.net/index.html

I'll be back later, I want to check this one out some more.

Thank you,

Tim

[my_wan]

I'm still waiting on you to explain why the dead haven't already contacted us if you are right. If I find myself dead and disembodied I certainly wouldn't have any trouble whatsoever contacting the living if you are right. There are far smarter people than myself who have died.

Explain please!!!

[wollery]

Your right, because my odds are even higher when you take it down to the size of an atom.Oh crap, are you really trying to invoke quantum mechanics to support your ideas? :eek:

Science does not like the fact that they can not explain why curtain atoms behave the way they do, and they hate it even worse, when some low life as my self, uses it as an escape goat for any question concerning this topic, but it still holds true and with good reason.Yes, apparently you are trying to invoke quantum mechanics. :nope:

Quick hint - it might help if you knew the first thing about quantum mechanics. Just saying.

[Minor ad hom derail]
Are curtain atoms the atoms in the material a curtain's made from?
Is an escape goat Grayman's chosen mode of getaway transport?
[/Minor ad hom derail]

Has science ever try to alter atoms activity by posting signs, explaining what they are trying to do with the atoms,Why would anyone try to communicate with an atom? :confused:

Do you think that individual atoms have consciousness?

or did they prepare a plan to even communicate with future afterlife,Many scientists have, in fact, done just this, including Thomas Edison. No success so far.

the answer is no,The answer is yes. See above.

because they would feel to embarrassed to even try such a thing, and that is what is wrong with science today. People that are in position to actually study anything to do with atoms, do it with there left brain, not there right, and that is a mistake,Funny thing about science, it specifically tries to avoid emotion, and concentrates instead on empirical evidence. Something your ideas are sadly lacking. That isn't to say that it is devoid of imagination though. Half the point of science is to come up with new ideas, and that takes imagination.

just like limiting women into science or other topic's because they are not good at math.Oh dear, adding sexism to your repertoire now are we? I wouldn't like to be in your shoes when Eos of the Eons reads this. Or Geek Goddess, or Kitten, or Hokulele or . . . . . . . . . :runaway

They should be welcomed into any field of science with out being measured.Sexism aside, are you saying you want people doing science who don't have the ability to do science? That people should be given a free pass to use incredibly expensive, sensitive equipment without proving first that they understand what they're doing?

Well that makes a whole lot of sense. :rolleyes:

The right brain needs to go hand in hand with the left brain, and I don't believe it is being done enough in this field of study.I don't think you have the first idea of how science works, or what scientists do.

This is a field of study that needs to explore different avenues, before writing it off as a six. Six is never a good number any way you look at it.Wow, way to totally misinterpret a perfectly good analogy.

I don't think you actually understood the point of my post. Or any of the posts by anyone else, including yourself.

Let me put it simply:-

1. You have no idea what you're talking about.

2. Your posts make very little sense - the English is appalling, the science is complete mumbo-jumbo.

3. You don't answer the questions people ask you.

4. You seem to think that repeating yourself is some way to make a case for your ideas. It isn't.

5. Your entire case is built on wishful thinking. There is no worse approach to science.

[vIQleS]

Everything can be measures, I did not know that we have magnets in out body, but scientist say we do, and they can measure that. For years they did not think that was possible, because you can not stick a magnet next to you, and it Will stick, but we still have them just the same. On this show about magnets that comes on TV every once in awhile, and I have the name of it written down somewhere, they assumed these magnets were used in some way earlier in our evolution, they did not talk about how it might be used for us now, or in the future. That is the problem with always wanting evidence first, it limits your thoughts to explore.

Could those magnets in our brains be a back up plan for our energy, when it is time to jump this big apple. Your energy is always taking you out of pain and into pleasure.

Thank you,
Tim

Seriously - What language do you speak (natively)?

[Cuddles]

So, if I'm reading this correctly, we need to accept women into the scientific community because although they can't do maths they can use their left brains to communicate with atoms using signposts in order to advance our understanding of quantum dynamics in relation to the afterlife.

There's really not much I can say to that.

[Tim4848]

Math is nothing but a tool to measure things, right brain thought is a tool for the left brain to measure, and all rules after that depends on who wants to make them, example my last job, it was easy just to hire people with a college education, so why not do it, it did not matter what type of education.

Different people with different thoughts can do so many different things compared to one way of doing things.

That's my opinion anyway,
Tim

[my_wan]

You have asked people to invest time, money, and effort into helping with this. You need to articulate what makes the braingate so special that that is what we need to invest in. Wouldn't learning Morse code be just as effective? For speaking to SETTI you could even make up a code as you went because they are analyzing the signal for ANY message. Given that braingate might fail to produce anything but noise for a disembodied soul due the the lack of thought localization etc.

You need to answer one and only one question.
Why are the dead not already talking to us with equipment already in use?

[Tanstaafl]

Why are the dead not already talking to us with equipment already in use?


That's a really good question. Can't the dead emit an EM signal in the radio part of the spectrum somewhere? We have incredibly sensitive receivers, listening to all parts of the spectrum. Granted, they're not specifically looking for signals from dead people, but you'd think maybe something would have been noticed by now. Lots of people have died after learning about radios, so there are plenty of candidate people that understand the possibility.

Or could it be that their consciousness died out along with the physical brains they previously existed in?

[Tim4848]

To whom it may concern,


A lot of people believe they can listen to noises that sound like voices from all type of electronic devices, but I don't believe that, I believe the sounds these people are hearing, are only random sounds so small in nature that they appear to be select voices, but On the other hand, I believe these sounds might be consistent with past patients information in their data base, if they were already trained on a Brain Gate machine for example.

When I talk of this possibility all the way down to the atom, that is because thought is not an atom, thought is an energy, a shadow takes up space, thought does not.

Quantum Reality
http://www.prometheus.demon.co.uk/02/02kumar.htm


My theory is a lot like the Schrodinger's Cat experiment,
except we are saying the out of body afterlife, is in there and we need to make sure we have this Brain Gate machine in there as well, just in case.


Schrödinger's Cat experiment
http://www.google.com/search?q=Schr%c3%b6dinger%e2%80%99s+cat+experiment


Thank you,
Tim

[Loss Leader]

To whom it may concern,


Fewer and fewer people, I suspect.


On the other hand, I believe these sounds might be consistent with past patients information in their data base, if they were already trained on a Brain Gate machine for example.


What in the wide, wiide world of sports??? Does anyone have a Tim-to-English dictionary?


thought is an energy


I'm pretty sure that's not right.


a shadow takes up space


I'm pretty sure that's not right.


thought does not.


I'm pretty sure that's not right.


Quantum Reality


Oy vey iz mir.


My theory is a lot like the Schrodinger's Cat experiment


I'm pretty sure that's not right.

[quixotecoyote]

Wait, I think he got one! Thoughts don't take up space.

He got one!
:clap:

[Loss Leader]

Wait, I think he got one! Thoughts don't take up space.



It depends how you define thoughts, I guess. If the entire process of having a thought is included, then chemicals are released by neurons, creating a bridge for electrical activity. If nothing else, those mollecules of neurotransmitters have mass and, thus, take up space.

And that brings us back to the core of Tim's problem. Thoughts have mass; thinking is a physical process. You can't separate the brain from the mind and, as such, you can't get future out of body past life people or whatever the heck he's talking about.

[Cuddles]

it did not matter what type of education.

Yeah, I agree, it doesn't matter what kind of education you have. Let more sports therapists into our particle accelerators, that's what I say.

When I talk of this possibility all the way down to the atom

The problem you have here is that you seem to think of atoms as small. They aren't. Compared to the things that really concern quantum physics, atoms are really quite big. You really need to start talking about quarks and strings to come up with a properly incoherent theory, there's no point talking about atoms because we already understand them. Try neutrelinoes. It really rolls off the tongue nicely.

My theory is a lot like the Schrodinger's Cat experiment,
except we are saying the out of body afterlife

So, not actually anything like Schodinger's cat at all.

[athon]

To Whom it May Concern,

Sometimes my sausages contain apple. Inside sunlight there is also cornflakes, but if the apple was a sultana, why do fruit bats not eat them? Going to sleep obviously we are missing thoughts which should be like a taste in that they don't have a colour.

If my thoughts did have a colour it would not be small or pi. It would have to be Newtonian. Therefore, if Newton had not burned his retina with sound energy he would have heard Mozart. That's what I think, anyway.

Inside electricity nobody knows if they have sprinkles or an eclipse. Using BrainGate we could finally know.

Purple monkey dishwasher.

Thanks,

Athon

[Oualawouzou]

Is it me or does "future out of body afterlife energy people" sound like PC talk for "ghosts"?

[Cuddles]

To Whom it May Concern,

Sometimes my sausages contain apple. Inside sunlight there is also cornflakes, but if the apple was a sultana, why do fruit bats not eat them? Going to sleep obviously we are missing thoughts which should be like a taste in that they don't have a colour.

If my thoughts did have a colour it would not be small or pi. It would have to be Newtonian. Therefore, if Newton had not burned his retina with sound energy he would have heard Mozart. That's what I think, anyway.

Inside electricity nobody knows if they have sprinkles or an eclipse. Using BrainGate we could finally know.

Purple monkey dishwasher.

Thanks,

Athon

:clap:

Is it me or does "future out of body afterlife energy people" sound like PC talk for "ghosts"?

No, no, you're think of present out of body afterlife energy people. I think the future ones are atomic cats. Or possibly female scientists. It's kind of hard to tell.

[my_wan]

TjW started the thread "The Department of Neutral Out of Body Possibilities (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=84541)"
We might as well have the complete set.
To complete the list that Tim4848 started
here; The Department of Positive Out of Body Possibilities (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=82219)
and here; The Department of Negitive Out of Body Possibilities (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=84084)

since Tim never answered my question here (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2664760#post2664760) the list wasn't complete without this one.

Sincerely,
"The Department of Missing Out of Body Possibilities".

[my_wan]

My theory is a lot like the Schrodinger's Cat experiment,

Cool. Now there is a good reason we haven't heard the ghost. You can only hear them if your not listening. I guess that means we could see them to if we only quit looking.

[Tim4848]

That's a really good question. Can't the dead emit an EM signal in the radio part of the spectrum somewhere? We have incredibly sensitive receivers, listening to all parts of the spectrum. Granted, they're not specifically looking for signals from dead people, but you'd think maybe something would have been noticed by now.

You already answered the question Tanstaafl, they are not looking for signals from dead people. The American Association of Electronic Voice Phenomena, might be going about it the wrong way as well, using the wrong equipment that is focused on voice, when they should be focused on thought. I do not know of any NDE or OBE person who said they could talk when they were in that position, so if we are to use that information, then it only make sense to find equipment that is in line with their type of experience and use it 24/7.

Lots of people have died after learning about radios, so there are plenty of candidate people that understand the possibility.

I believe for the best results, we need to ask patients of BrainGate if they would be interested in doing this, the worst thing they could say is no.

Or could it be that their consciousness died out along with the physical brains they previously existed in?

That is what I am would like to find out.

Thank you,
Tim

[Tim4848]

To whom it may concern,
When you think about my topic, you might want to think outside the box.
Exactly what is 'Thinking Outside the Box'?
Outside the Box
Thinking outside the box requires different attributes that include:
Willingness to take new perspectives to day-to-day work.
Openness to do different things and to do things differently.
Focusing on the value of finding new ideas and acting on them.
Striving to create value in new ways.
Listening to others.
Supporting and respecting others when they come up with new ideas.

Out-of-the box thinking requires an openness to new ways of seeing the world and a willingness to explore. Out-of-the box thinkers know that new ideas need nurturing and support. They also know that having an idea is good but acting on it is more important. Results are what count
http://www.canadaone.com/ezine/april02/out_of_the_box_thinking.html
Thank you,
Tim

[athon]

?????

Precisely what I've been thinking about your posts all along.

Athon

[wollery]

Thinking outside the box is a term that implies thinking of an entirely new way to approach a well defined problem.

Your idea is not a well defined problem. In fact what you have done is to rehash a very old idea, trying to find a new way to imagine how it might work, unsuccessfully as it happens, since the idea that ghosts or spirits are bundles of thought energy has been around for decades. But worse than that even, you haven't even really stopped to consider how it might work, you've just proposed a way to detect it.

In summary, you're idea is how to detect something that may or may not exist, with no real idea how it might exist.

Start by coming up with a viable theory about how it might exist and we'll have a place from which to take this.

You might start by explaining how the "electrical thought energy" remains bound as an entity after the brain, which is medium in which this energy moves, ceases to function, and how it could affect things or produce thoughts without using up that energy.

Until you do this your plans are moot.

[athon]

Wollery, how the hell are communicating with this guy? Did you receive some decoder ring in a box of weeties that I didn't? Or is it the fact you now speak Chinese that foreign languages come much easier?

I'm lost.

Athon

[Loss Leader]

Tim -

Your entire post from the fourth line down is copied word for word from the website you cite. Unless you are the author of the material, please do not quote websites wholesale. You could get in trouble with the moderators.

Results are what count.


If this is true, then even the most creative idea must give people some reason to think it will work. Otherwise, it's a waste. It would be very creative for FedEx to institute flex-time so that their delivery people came to work when they felt like it and left when they wanted to so long as they somehow got in their 35 hours each week. The employees would be happier and, since their work would coincide with their natural body rhythms (some people just work harder in the afternoons, some in the morning), they would be more efficient.

Unfortunately, it's a desperately stupid idea. FedEx depends on trucks coming and leaving at specific times in order to move packages as fast as possible. Flex time would destroy all attempts at scheduling and would be disasterous for the company.

So, an idea must be more than just "outside the bun." It must also be something that has some chance of working and not wasting resources.

Can you give any reason at all why you think your idea has any chance of being successful?

[TjW]

To whom it may concern,
When you think about my topic, you might want to think outside the box.
Exactly what is 'Thinking Outside the Box'?
Outside the Box
Thinking outside the box requires different attributes that include:
Willingness to take new perspectives to day-to-day work.
Openness to do different things and to do things differently.
Focusing on the value of finding new ideas and acting on them.
Striving to create value in new ways.
Listening to others.
Supporting and respecting others when they come up with new ideas.

Out-of-the box thinking requires an openness to new ways of seeing the world and a willingness to explore. Out-of-the box thinkers know that new ideas need nurturing and support. They also know that having an idea is good but acting on it is more important. Results are what count
http://www.canadaone.com/ezine/april02/out_of_the_box_thinking.html
Thank you,
Tim

Unfortunately for you, successfully "thinking outside the box" also requires knowing where the box is, and why the edges are where they are.

[Wheezebucket]

Man, I want a braingate!

[Hokulele]

Results are what count


Exactly. Please show me some results, rather than random thoughts about who knows what. All the daydreaming in the world is pleasant but useless if it is in pursuit of the non-existent.

[Tim4848]

Do not spam this forum with commercial advertisements.

[Loss Leader]

To whom it may concern,


Tim, stop cutting and pasting large tracts from other websites. You are going to get in trouble with the mods. Understand this.


P.S. That website is nonsense.

[JoeTheJuggler]

Math is nothing but a tool to measure things
You don't really mean that, do you?

right brain thought is a tool for the left brain to measure

You definitely don't mean that, do you?

[Tim4848]

Start by coming up with a viable theory about how it might exist and we'll have a place from which to take this.

First you have to see all the branches first,

http://www.heavenlygardens.org/kaivalya/step19.htm

Then you have to look at all the numbers,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_All

http://www.nature.com/search/executeSearch?sp-q=afterlife&sp-c=10&sp-x-9=cat&sp-s=date&sp-q-9=NATURE&submit=go&sp-a=sp1001702d&sp-sfvl-field=subject%7Cujournal&sp-x-1=ujournal&sp-p-1=phrase&sp-p=all

Thank you,
Tim

[my_wan]

Start by coming up with a viable theory about how it might exist and we'll have a place from which to take this.

Yes Tim you need a "viable theory" before you start asking us to help you get a braingate. Personally I think you left your gate open.

[wollery]

Start by coming up with a viable theory about how it might exist and we'll have a place from which to take this.

First you have to see all the branches first,

http://www.heavenlygardens.org/kaivalya/step19.htm

Then you have to look at all the numbers,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_All

http://www.nature.com/search/executeSearch?sp-q=afterlife&sp-c=10&sp-x-9=cat&sp-s=date&sp-q-9=NATURE&submit=go&sp-a=sp1001702d&sp-sfvl-field=subject%7Cujournal&sp-x-1=ujournal&sp-p-1=phrase&sp-p=all

Thank you,
TimI said a viable theory, not more wishful thinking and vague woolly anecdotes.

Try again.

How does thought energy remain as a single coherent whole, and how does the consciousness act without using up that energy?

[Tim4848]

I promise myself that I was going to go to bed early tonight, and you hate it when my post are too long anyway, so I will keep it short:

First step on a viable theory:

I will be using BrainGate as an example, even though other machines might work just as well.

First I would need the opportunity to interview a patient of BrainGate, and see if they would be interested in doing additional training toward my topic, and then we help them reach their goals.

They will need to have a Chuck Yeager type of commitment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Yeager

Thank you,
Tim

[Oualawouzou]

I promise myself that I was going to go to bed early tonight, and you hate it when my post are too long anyway, so I will keep it short:

First step on a viable theory:

I will be using BrainGate as an example, even though other machines might work just as well.

First I would need the opportunity to interview a patient of BrainGate, and see if they would be interested in doing additional training toward my topic, and then we help them reach their goals.

They will need to have a Chuck Yeager type of commitment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Yeager

Thank you,
Tim

This is not a theory. You already told us what you want to do. We are asking about what lead you to want to do this thing. Not philosophical wandering. Not fuzzy collection of semi-anecdotes. Which facts lead you to conclude your experiment is a worthwhile one. Answering this question would be as good a start as any: How does thought energy remain as a single coherent whole, and how does the consciousness act without using up that energy?

[wollery]

Tim, please look up the word "theory" in a dictionary when you get up, and then try again.

[my_wan]

First I would need the opportunity to interview a patient of BrainGate, and see if they would be interested in doing additional training toward my topic, and then we help them reach their goals.

Tim you seem to have gotten the point that there is nothing special about braingates detection capabilities. Now why do you keep insisting that the subject be trained. Instructions written on the wall work just as well. Do you need to practice to walk around your room?

[Tim4848]

To whom it may concern,

Are we all in agreement as of today, that nobody on earth has ever proven the exsistence of afterlife?


Thank you,
Tim

[Tim4848]

When you think about my topic, you might want to think about the clock. We ain't getting any younger.

http://www.time.gov/timezone.cgi?Eastern/d/-5/java

Thank you,
Tim

[wollery]

Death and taxes Tim, death and taxes.

The fact that we're getting older has no bearing on whether or not an afterlife might exist, or whether we live on as bundles of electrical energy.

Please try to tell us what your actual theory is about how this happens.

[Tim4848]

To whom it might concern,

I'm pretty sure they are not trying to sell a book at this site.

This mind boggling experiment done in 1968 points to the fact that the human consciousness is mobile. It does not have to be stationary inside the brain but can move around at will. If this is true the western scientific view of the brain and consciousness needs to be revised.

http://www.soultravel.nu/2004/040326-MissZ/index.shtml

Thank you,
Tim

[wollery]

Wow, talk about poor experiment design. The number was in the same room, in plain sight of anyone standing up, just a few feet above where she was sleeping? In other words, it was actually within her reach.

Why not a shelf on the far side of the room, preferably in a sealed glass case? Put it 20 feet away in a position that she can't possibly reach without disconnecting herself from the monitors, then I might possibly be impressed.

And they say in their conclusions that they can't be certain what state of brain activity she was in when she supposedly read the number, but it was probably light sleep or semiconciousness.

:nope:

[Skeptic Guy]

And this wasn't published in Science?!

[Tim4848]

To whom it may concern,

Something to think about until I get back from vacation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDiWFcA0gaw&mode=related&search=

Thank you,
Tim

[Miss Anthrope]

To whom it may concern,

Something to think about until I get back from vacation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDiWFcA0gaw&mode=related&search=

Thank you,
Tim

And this is relevent to your claims how?

[Tim4848]

Just like they said in their news story

Other implications:

(2) : a logical relationship between two propositions in which if the first is true the second is true (3) : a statement exhibiting a relation of implication
3 : something implied : as a : SUGGESTION

We can communicate with thought, now lets communicate with out of body thought. Thought is thought regardless where it is at. We are giving energy the opportunity to do what we have not been able to do.

Eighty percent of Americans already believe there is some type of afterlife, let's see if they are right.

Thank you,
Tim

[Tim4848]

To whom it may concern,

NDEs of the Rich and Famous

Why would such a person reveal to everyone that they were dead and came back to life? Money? They already got that. Fame? They are already famous. In fact, by telling everyone they came back from the dead, they may be risking their own reputation. People who reveal such things to others often become the butt of jokes or thought to be crazy. Why would anyone rich and famous subject themselves to this when it might result in lost fame and fortune? The only rational reason that such people who have nothing to gain is that it really happened to them and they want to share it with the world.

http://www.near-death.com/famous.html

I think it is safe to say, that out of body experiences are not a hoax.

I would think that a hoax would be something planned, and none of this seam to be.

Did you see how depressed the patient was before he got to use BrainGate, and how much better he felt after getting to use BrainGate. this same patient has passed away since that interview of other reasons, and we never even took the time to see if he could be on the machine again after he died. We can assume that he could not do it, or we could assume that he could do it, but we never did talk to him about it, and we never gave him an opportunity to see if he could do it. In my opinion this was a missed opportunity, and it will continue to be missed opportunities every time one of these patients die and we don't try this theory.

We can assume you are right and that I am crazy as long as you like, but that still is not getting us any closer to the truth.

I believe Clark Howard would be proud, by how much money we could save by trying my theory.

http://clarkhoward.com/inside/ask_team_clark.html

Thank you,
Tim

[Tim4848]

To whom it may concern,

Once again experts don't know why this works either, but it does.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ij_LuMFYykg&mode=related&search=

Whats the worst think could happen if the 80% of Americans who believe in some type of afterlife, got behind my thoughts and made low budget possibility a reality?

Thank you,
Tim

[wollery]

Just like they said in their news story

Other implications:

(2) : a logical relationship between two propositions in which if the first is true the second is true (3) : a statement exhibiting a relation of implication
3 : something implied : as a : SUGGESTION

We can communicate with thought, now lets communicate with out of body thought. Thought is thought regardless where it is at. We are giving energy the opportunity to do what we have not been able to do.We can interpret thought via the braingate, not communicate with it.

And you've still completely failed to address my questions.

How does the thought maintain coherency, and how does it do anything without using up it's energy and dissipating?

Eighty percent of Americans already believe there is some type of afterlife, let's see if they are right.Appeal to popularity. 2000 years ago everyone thought that the Sun orbited the Earth. Did that make it true?

NDEs of the Rich and Famous

Why would such a person reveal to everyone that they were dead and came back to life? Money? They already got that. Fame? They are already famous. In fact, by telling everyone they came back from the dead, they may be risking their own reputation. People who reveal such things to others often become the butt of jokes or thought to be crazy. Why would anyone rich and famous subject themselves to this when it might result in lost fame and fortune? The only rational reason that such people who have nothing to gain is that it really happened to them and they want to share it with the world.

http://www.near-death.com/famous.html

I think it is safe to say, that out of body experiences are not a hoax.

I would think that a hoax would be something planned, and none of this seam to be.

Did you see how depressed the patient was before he got to use BrainGate, and how much better he felt after getting to use BrainGate. this same patient has passed away since that interview of other reasons, and we never even took the time to see if he could be on the machine again after he died. We can assume that he could not do it, or we could assume that he could do it, but we never did talk to him about it, and we never gave him an opportunity to see if he could do it. In my opinion this was a missed opportunity, and it will continue to be missed opportunities every time one of these patients die and we don't try this theory.

We can assume you are right and that I am crazy as long as you like, but that still is not getting us any closer to the truth.

I believe Clark Howard would be proud, by how much money we could save by trying my theory.

http://clarkhoward.com/inside/ask_team_clark.htmlFamous people are just as prone to idiocy and lunacy as anyone else. Probably more so.

If you want to get closer to the truth start by answering my questions.

How does the thought maintain coherency, and how does it do anything without using up it's energy and dissipating?

Once again experts don't know why this works either, but it does.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ij_LuMFYykg&mode=related&search=

Whats the worst think could happen if the 80% of Americans who believe in some type of afterlife, got behind my thoughts and made low budget possibility a reality?Again, utterly irrelevant. Just like the braingate. We know how the mind works, and we can read living brainwaves. What you have to do is come up with a viable theory of how the afterlife mind works.

How does the thought maintain coherency, and how does it do anything without using up it's energy and dissipating?

[Tim4848]

We can interpret thought via the braingate, not communicate with it.

And you've still completely failed to address my questions.

How does the thought maintain coherency,

Wave, friction

and how does it do anything without using up it's energy and dissipating?

energy of atoms

Appeal to popularity. 2000 years ago everyone thought that the Sun orbited the Earth. Did that make it true?

Famous people are just as prone to idiocy and lunacy as anyone else. Probably more so.

Talk about some of my answers


If you want to get closer to the truth start by answering my questions.

To save time and money, the truth and the answer will be in the results of the research.

How does the thought maintain coherency, and how does it do anything without using up it's energy and dissipating?

Again, utterly irrelevant. Just like the braingate. We know how the mind works, and we can read living brainwaves. What you have to do is come up with a viable theory of how the afterlife mind works.

Their mind works the same way, just on a smaller scale. Take a glass of purple cool laid and dump it in a river. Within seconds you can not see the purple cool laid any more, but it is still there. It would be pointless to jump into the river and try and find any of those purple colors, but what if you were able to detect them on a different playing field.

That is the question we must find out.
Do we live in an atom that is capable of generating a wave that can be measured. I believe I was doing that when I had my out of body experience.

How does the thought maintain coherency, and how does it do anything without using up it's energy and dissipating?

Everything has energy, it's energy is in proportion to it's size.

[wollery]

Wave, frictionThat's your answer? Two words? Are you serious? If that's the best you can do then you aren't going to get very far. Please explain how this works.

energy of atomsI assume you mean that they draw energy from atoms around them, which would be detectable as a localized drop in temperature. Please explain the specific mechanism you propose for this energy transfer.

Talk about some of my answersI have. And we've already covered the topic of empirical data versus anecdote. People saying they had an OBE is irrelevant to whether or not OBEs and NDEs are real phenomena or a function of the material brain.

Their mind works the same way, just on a smaller scale. Take a glass of purple cool laid and dump it in a river. Within seconds you can not see the purple cool laid any more, but it is still there. It would be pointless to jump into the river and try and find any of those purple colors, but what if you were able to detect them on a different playing field.It's Kool Aid, not "cool laid".

And as an explanation it sucks. It's perfectly possible, easy even, to detect if there's Kool Aid in a river. You take a sample of the water and test it for various of the compounds contained in Kool Aid. Also, the Kool Aid molecules can no longer interact with each other, because they are too diffused. If this were how OBEs, NDEs and afterlife worked then thoughts would be impossible due to the diffusion causing the inability of any one part of the process being unable to interact with any other part.

That is the question we must find out.
Do we live in an atom that is capable of generating a wave that can be measured. I believe I was doing that when I had my out of body experience.We don't live in an atom, atoms exist in us.

Try again.

Everything has energy, it's energy is in proportion to it's size.No, it isn't.

Unless you're referring to E=mc2, and then we're talking about mass, not size - a cubic centimetre of lead has way more mass-energy than 4 cubic centimetres of balsa wood.

It seems that you really don't understand what energy is. Please take the time to do some basic study, it will make this go much smoother.

And PLEASE learn to use the quote function. It would make reading and responding to your posts a lot easier.

[Tim4848]

Dear wollery,

Thank you for your input.

Right when I think I am getting better on the Internet, I learn something new.

I am sorry that I am not focused on that part of the details at this time, because that part of it will take it's allotted amount of time, just like anything else.

Example, let's say the BrainGate project works with out of body people, and you find cold spots next to the sensor, then you would have the answer you are looking for, or maybe the machine is working right, but you still can not measure it, I do not know at this time, but that is no different than the egg and chicken thing.

In my experience of having an OBE, I moved around in space of the room at will, and I could feel my energy behind me, and it seamed to be able to do it effortlessly, but I was aware of it. Some people believe they hear a buzzing when in this situation, and that could very well be the energy behind them as well. I also could see, but I felt as though I was looking out further than I normally do, ever so slightly.

Some OBE people say, there is a cord that is connected to them while they are having an OBE, I did not see mine, but I was not looking for it either. This might very well be the energy I felt behind me, or I noticed it more because of it's weight of holding me back in some way. These are the type of questions we should be asking of the 12 million Americans who have had one before. The more we see patterns of different laws that can be measured, the easier your questions could be answered.

We have already established, that these experiences happen, even though some of us are not in agreement that they actually leave their body, regardless on who this person might be, I do not have a problem with that, but let's also try a little harder to try and look at it from different questions.

I understand it would be pointless to explore people who have dreams about pink elephants, especially since they do not have them while having an OBE, but this type of experience does have clues; I now understand why that guy on CSI acts the way he does now, he once had an OBE.

I believe by making a decision to work toward my theory, and using the insight of other OBE people experiences and input, we can speed this process up quicker.

I believe when I had my OBE, that I had the ability to control both positive and negative at the same time, by having thoughts that have friction and that gave me the dominance over static electricity. I never felt as though I could do a flip, not that it couldn't be done.

I could float in one space, I could move around at will, just like I can get different parts of my body to move around at will right now, effortlessly.

How big is it? I honestly do not know at this time.

Is it real to me? Yes

I assumed that if it had to happen to me, then it had to happen to somebody else. One gallop poll has the number as high as 12 million Americans.

When I was in this state, at no time did I feel like I did not have enough energy to survive.

It was kind like how an electric bumper car works off of the electrical fencing up above, but in my case, my will thoughts generated movement and it kind of felt like this but much smoother and quieter.

example:
http://www.freefoto.com/preview/11-46-1?ffid=11-46-1&k=Bumper+Cars%2C+The+Hoppings+Fun+Fair%2C+Town+Moo r%2C+Newcastle+upon+Tyne

Thank you for reading my thoughts,
Tim






http://www.dctech.com/physics/features/0801.php

[Tim4848]

To whom it may concern,


http://getclippings.com/image.php?id=376930

Thank you,
Tim

[wollery]

Dear wollery,

Thank you for your input.

Right when I think I am getting better on the Internet, I learn something new.

I am sorry that I am not focused on that part of the details at this time, because that part of it will take it's allotted amount of time, just like anything else.Part of the point of my replies is to try to get you to understand, and focus on, the scientific aspect of all this.

Example, let's say the BrainGate project works with out of body people, and you find cold spots next to the sensor, then you would have the answer you are looking for, or maybe the machine is working right, but you still can not measure it, I do not know at this time, but that is no different than the egg and chicken thing.No, finding cold spots would not, as such, validate the theory. Largely because you don't actually have a working theory. And this is the problem I'm highlighting.

We have already established, that these experiences happen, even though some of us are not in agreement that they actually leave their body, regardless on who this person might be, I do not have a problem with that, but let's also try a little harder to try and look at it from different questions.I agree that these experiences happen. The question is why, and since they can be easily explained by simple material functions of the brain you need to put forward a viable theory of how they might happen by some other mechanism.

I believe by making a decision to work toward my theory, and using the insight of other OBE people experiences and input, we can speed this process up quicker.I also think it's a good idea to study the experiences of people who have OBEs, but not for the same reasons as you.

I believe when I had my OBE, that I had the ability to control both positive and negative at the same time, by having thoughts that have friction and that gave me the dominance over static electricity. I never felt as though I could do a flip, not that it couldn't be done.I have no idea what you are trying to say in this paragraph.

I could float in one space, I could move around at will, just like I can get different parts of my body to move around at will right now, effortlessly.I've floated and moved in dreams. What's your point?

How big is it? I honestly do not know at this time.How big is what?

Is it real to me? YesClearly. But that doesn't make it actually real.

I assumed that if it had to happen to me, then it had to happen to somebody else. One gallop poll has the number as high as 12 million Americans. The number of people who experience it is irrelevant.

When I was in this state, at no time did I feel like I did not have enough energy to survive. You weren't dead. You're talking about communicating with people after they've died, when their brains no longer function. So this comment is also irrelevant. It does, however, go back to the point I keep making. How does the energy stay together after the brain stops functioning, and where does the energy for continued thought come from? Until you can answer these questions you do not have a viable theory.

It was kind like how an electric bumper car works off of the electrical fencing up above, but in my case, my will thoughts generated movement and it kind of felt like this but much smoother and quieter.Again, your experience was whilst you were still alive, so is irrelevant to the afterlife, which is what your ideas seem to be about.

[Tim4848]

Dear wollery,

How much energy do you think afterlife thought would need to survive when it is nothing more than energy, especially an energy that can't be destroyed. We have some micros's that are very small and structured for their size, and they show that they hardly need anything to survive for long periods of time and they are surviving in the elements just fine.

If some type of string theory is involved with afterlife energy thought, then it could easily connect to any other type of energy, even humans. The aura effect, just like the way the energy works in one of those electrical glass balls (plasma 360).

http://www.spencersonline.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/products.browse/categoryID/95d72717-aa5b-4775-930a-0ef12acc6de7/

If your thoughts have gotten you this far with all its capable of doing, then I have no doubt it has a back up plan for this type of evolution as well.

There is so much energy around us all the time to easily supply this type of activity, because we are part of that type of activity. As water is to a river going over Niagara falls, as the land that holds it to the sky that uses it, to the sun that shows it, and it is all done in waves of friction in the invisible force of natures evolution.

It is important that 80% of Americans believe in some type of afterlife, and always continue to believe so, because even if it turns out that I am wrong at this point in history, does not stop it from happening at some point, because we evolved our self's mentally and physically to make it a possibility.

Focused evolution with the help of a machine.

Thank you for listening to my thoughts,
Tim

[Mojo]

Focused evolution...


Eugenics?

[Tim4848]

To whom it may concern,

Our Government plans on spending $70 billion dollars next year alone on Research & Development.

http://www.warresisters.org/piechart.htm

Just think if we could get the Government to focus a little bit of money on this topic.

80% of Americans believe in some type of afterlife, but what type of Research & Development are they doing in that field next year?

It's our duty to keep them focused on this topic as well, it should always be at the top of an "A" list. I am not saying that they should spend a lot of money on it, but they should at least stay focused on it, as other technologies advance toward such a possibility.

Just one tax payer to another.

What type of research do you feel is more important than this one?


Thank you,
Tim

[Hokulele]

What type of research do you feel is more important than this one?


A cure for cancer.
A cure for Parkinson's.
Hope for spinal cord injury survivors.
Prevention of birth defects.
Understanding of global warming.
Development of better food distribution methods.
A cure for Alzheimer's.
Abiogenesis.
Limb replacement therapies.
Joint replacement therapies.


Shall I continue?

[wollery]

How much energy do you think afterlife thought would need to survive when it is nothing more than energyIt's your theory. How much energy do they have?

especially an energy that can't be destroyed.No energy can be destroyed, but in order for anything to happen energy must be converted from one form to another and moved around, and, as I've been trying, apparently unsuccessfully, to make you understand, that's where you need to come up with a viable theory for where the energy comes from and goes to.

We have some micros's that are very small and structured for their size, and they show that they hardly need anything to survive for long periods of time and they are surviving in the elements just fine.Assuming you mean microcomputers then they have the energy confined in a battery in the form of electrical potential, which, when the computer is working, is converted to kinetic energy, light energy, sound energy (a form of kinetic energy) and heat. The battery has a limited amount of energy and must be recharged at regular intervals from the mains supply. The mains supply comes from power stations which either burn fossil fuels, run off nuclear fission, or wind/wave/tide/solar power. I could explain where all of those energies come from, but I hope you see the point.

If some type of string theory is involved with afterlife energy thought, then it could easily connect to any other type of energy, even humans.String theory? Are you sure you want to start invoking yet another bit of physics that you don't understand?

The aura effect, just like the way the energy works in one of those electrical glass balls (plasma 360).That works by simple electrical discharge across a gas. Try again.

If your thoughts have gotten you this far with all its capable of doing, then I have no doubt it has a back up plan for this type of evolution as well. Non-sequitor.

There is so much energy around us all the time to easily supply this type of activity, because we are part of that type of activity. As water is to a river going over Niagara falls, as the land that holds it to the sky that uses it, to the sun that shows it, and it is all done in waves of friction in the invisible force of natures evolution. That's beautifully poetic. Utter rubbish, but beautifully poetic.

It is important that 80% of Americans believe in some type of afterlife, and always continue to believe so, because even if it turns out that I am wrong at this point in history, does not stop it from happening at some point, because we evolved our self's mentally and physically to make it a possibility. Amazing, just amazing. Still appealing to popularity, and now suggesting Lamarckian evolution at the same time.

Focused evolution with the help of a machine.:nope:

[wollery]

Shall I continue?Yes please.

[Hokulele]

Yes please.


OK.

A cure for AIDS.
Reliable, safe, effective birth control.
A cure for sciatica.
A cure for shingles.
An effective malaria vaccine.
World peace.
Promotion of surfing as an Olympic sport.
A synthetic cork that isn't plastic.
Development of renewable energy sources.
Female viagra.


Shall I continue to continue?

[wollery]

Why not?

[Hokulele]

You do realize it will start to get silly from here on, yes?

OK, fine.


Improved regnerative braking technology.
Extended life batteries.
Improved efficiencies in photovoltaic cells.
A cure for male pattern baldness.
A cure for male pattern prickish behavior.
A non-toxic, effective mosquito repellant.
Food storage improvements, particularly for fruits and vegetables.
Strawberries with an extended shelf-life, that taste like strawberries.
Internet spam filters.
Internet troll filters.
A method for improved time-sharing on space-based telescopes, in all wavelengths.
Free wireless Internet, everywhere (satellite-based?).


Sorry wollery, I gave it my best, maybe more tomorrow.

[Loss Leader]

Just think if we could get the Government to focus a little bit of money on this topic.

80% of Americans believe in some type of afterlife, but what type of Research & Development are they doing in that field next year?

It's our duty to keep them focused on this topic as well, it should always be at the top of an "A" list.


Tim - this is the first thing you've said that actually makes sense. You have raised an excellent point and one that must be explored further.

I urge you to make sure our government does not let this fascinating area of research go unexplored. Please call George W. Bush right now at 202-456-1414 and tell him all about it. The President must be briefed immediately. His number again is 202-456-1414.

Good luck and god speed.

[Tim4848]

I would call that number if I knew he was actually there and willing to talk. His approval rating can't be much better than mine on this site, so what part of his legacy could it hurt?

A cure for AIDS or anything else you list, might be "A'' things, but it might be an out of body afterlife who solves them, so that really makes them "B" things.


$70 billion dollars on a "B" list for just one year, that is amazing to me, when you think my theory which is surely an "A" list will not get anything, because there is no drugs to sell.

Thank you,
Tim

[wollery]

Okay, let me see if I've got this straight.

Your idea is to make contact with something for which you don't have a working theory, can't offer any evidence for (except anecdote, appeal to popularity and ridiculously flawed tests), and probably doesn't exist anyway, using a device designed for an entirely different purpose (which is no better for the purpose than an ordinary desktop pc), based on a lucid dream you once had and a very poor understanding of science.

And you think that that's more important than all the research projects that Hokulele listed? :rolleyes:

If it exists (highly improbable), and if you can make contact (stupendously improbable), then it might provide answers for all those research topics (almost infinitely improbable). :nope:

[Tim4848]

Dear wollery,

You are not paying attention to me at all, I wonder if you even read my post.

Your idea is to make contact with something for which you don't have a working theory

My idea is to let them make contact with us, with a machine that communicates with thought.

If it exists (highly improbable), and if you can make contact (stupendously improbable), then it might provide answers for all those research topics (almost infinitely improbable).

No, it will answer even more.

I do not need billions of dollars to make my theory work, because I have come up with a way, where it will hardly cost hardly any money at all.

To make this theory work is not the hard part, it's other factors that is slowing the process down. People who don't understand, and people who don't want to understand, because it is not in their best interest to understand.

Example: a drug dealer, a sex offender, O.J. Simpson, or somebody from another country that don't want the United States to be the country that makes it happen first.

Thank you,
Tim

[Apathia]

My idea is to let them make contact with us, with a machine that communicates with thought.

Ah, Tim, I said I wouldn't nag you, but this is such a tragic misunderstanding.
Your ignorance of very basic science is obstructing your understanding of what Braingate is and how it works.

It doesn't communicate with thought in the least.

I don't think anyone in the context of this thread will be able to give you the foundational knowledge you need to understand that Braingate isn't what you think it is. In brief Braingate interprets and uses electrical signals from a living, central nervous system. Without that biological interface, there is nothing for it to respond to. No brain, no gain.

Even if there were such a thing as an "astral body," that could roam about apart from the physical body and come into contact with a Braingate unit, the unit would just sit there dumbly, registering no activity at all, because it would not detect any brainwave activity.

It isn't built to measure or respond to qi, ectoplasm, or whatever it is you think thoughts are made of.
Thoughts aren't made of anything. They are merely software, and are absent without the hardware.

My advice again is that you forget this misunderstanding for a while and do some reading in high school and college level general Physics. Then you will have a solid foundation to work from and can reevaluate this matter.

When I was was a kid, I wrote up a piece on how to build a time machine.
It was based on a little bit of pop science and a lot of wild imagination.
Only after I'd written it dd I get down to doing some serious Physics study.
I soon discovered I'd been very, very wrong about the Physics of time.

Get the foundation you need and stop trying to build on a sinkhole.

[Hokulele]

A cure for AIDS or anything else you list, might be "A'' things, but it might be an out of body afterlife who solves them, so that really makes them "B" things.


If you didn't know something when you were alive, why would you know more after you die? That just doesn't make any sense. Even if they can still learn, how would they run experiments without being able to interact with anything.

If I am going to allocate money to a researcher, I want to make sure I can check their work, and that they can actually use the equipment I pay for.

[wollery]

Dear wollery,

You are not paying attention to me at all, I wonder if you even read my post.Every word, usually 3 or 4 times, since it often takes that many attempts to decipher what you are trying to say.

My idea is to let them make contact with us, with a machine that communicates with thought.You are trying to provide a means of communication, which by definition is you trying to communicate.

However, as has been pointed out, the braingate doesn't communicate with thought. You still seem to be unable to understand what the braingate does, or how it does it. It is simply an interface which interprets the electrical impulses of brain neurons

No, it will answer even more.Only if the phenomenon is real and if the technique works, and if these "future out of body afterlife" people have any answers. That's a lot of ifs.

I do not need billions of dollars to make my theory work, because I have come up with a way, where it will hardly cost hardly any money at all.

To make this theory work is not the hard part, it's other factors that is slowing the process down. People who don't understand, and people who don't want to understand, because it is not in their best interest to understand.And again you misunderstand. Nobody can make a theory work. The theory is either right or wrong. What you need to do is come up with a viable theory and then test it in a way that will show whether it is right or wrong. You have yet to come up with a viable theory.

Example: a drug dealer, a sex offender, O.J. Simpson, or somebody from another country that don't want the United States to be the country that makes it happen first. Interesting choice of people, and yet again, utterly irrelevant to the subject at hand.

[Loss Leader]

I would call that number if I knew he was actually there and willing to talk. His approval rating can't be much better than mine on this site, so what part of his legacy could it hurt?


Tim - This is an odd response considering what you have yourself said about your experiment. You said that we need to think outside the box. You said that the potential results of your experiment would be so amazing that it should not matter if there is only a miniscule chance of it working. You said that the amount of money needed to do your experiment is so small and the potential gain so great that we should happily take the risk.

The same applies to calling the President. Making the call costs you nothing (or, at most, a couple of bucks). Explaining your idea costs you nothing. Sure, there's only a small chance that the President will get your message and respond positively but the potential gain is so great that you should take this chance. Think outside the box: take a risk; go straight to the top.

That was your message to us, wasn't it?

Call the President today at 202-456-1414.

[Miss Anthrope]

Tim, if the potential is so great and the science is sound, you should have no trouble getting a research grant and some university or research facility to move forward.

Posting on message boards will net you ZERO.

Go ahead, try and get your grants.

[Tim4848]

Ah, Tim, I said I wouldn't nag you, but this is such a tragic misunderstanding.
Your ignorance of very basic science is obstructing your understanding of what Braingate is and how it works.

To make this theory work, is not the hard part, it's other factors that is slowing the process down. People who don't understand, and people who don't want to understand, because it is not in their best interest to understand.

It doesn't communicate with thought in the least.

To make this theory work, is not the hard part, it's other factors that is slowing the process down. People who don't understand, and people who don't want to understand, because it is not in their best interest to understand.

I don't think anyone in the context of this thread will be able to give you the foundational knowledge you need to understand that Braingate isn't what you think it is. In brief Braingate interprets and uses electrical signals from a living, central nervous system. Without that biological interface, there is nothing for it to respond to. No brain, no gain.

To make this theory work, is not the hard part, it's other factors that is slowing the process down. People who don't understand, and people who don't want to understand, because it is not in their best interest to understand.

Even if there were such a thing as an "astral body," that could roam about apart from the physical body and come into contact with a Braingate unit, the unit would just sit there dumbly, registering no activity at all, because it would not detect any brainwave activity.

To make this theory work, is not the hard part, it's other factors that is slowing the process down. People who don't understand, and people who don't want to understand, because it is not in their best interest to understand.

It isn't built to measure or respond to qi, ectoplasm, or whatever it is you think thoughts are made of.
Thoughts aren't made of anything. They are merely software, and are absent without the hardware.

To make this theory work, is not the hard part, it's other factors that is slowing the process down. People who don't understand, and people who don't want to understand, because it is not in their best interest to understand.

My advice again is that you forget this misunderstanding for a while and do some reading in high school and college level general Physics. Then you will have a solid foundation to work from and can reevaluate this matter.

To make this theory work, is not the hard part, it's other factors that is slowing the process down. People who don't understand, and people who don't want to understand, because it is not in their best interest to understand.

When I was was a kid, I wrote up a piece on how to build a time machine.
It was based on a little bit of pop science and a lot of wild imagination.
Only after I'd written it dd I get down to doing some serious Physics study.
I soon discovered I'd been very, very wrong about the Physics of time.

Everything in life consist of right direction, wrong direction, and learning from your mistakes.

Get the foundation you need and stop trying to build on a sinkhole.

The only sinkhole I see in this thread is negativity and a waste of time.

Thank you,
Tim

[Tim4848]

If you didn't know something when you were alive, why would you know more after you die? That just doesn't make any sense.

watch how you answer your own question in your next remarks. This is a sign that you can learn. I am so proud of you, this is evolution of energy taken place right here.

Even if they can still learn, how would they run experiments without being able to interact with anything.

I'm glad to see that I am not the only person that learns something new everyday.

If I am going to allocate money to a researcher, I want to make sure I can check their work, and that they can actually use the equipment I pay for.

I totally agree with you

Thank you,
Tim

[Tim4848]

Every word, usually 3 or 4 times, since it often takes that many attempts to decipher what you are trying to say.

You are trying to provide a means of communication, which by definition is you trying to communicate.

However, as has been pointed out, the braingate doesn't communicate with thought. You still seem to be unable to understand what the braingate does, or how it does it. It is simply an interface which interprets the electrical impulses of brain neurons

Only if the phenomenon is real and if the technique works, and if these "future out of body afterlife" people have any answers. That's a lot of ifs.

And again you misunderstand. Nobody can make a theory work. The theory is either right or wrong. What you need to do is come up with a viable theory and then test it in a way that will show whether it is right or wrong. You have yet to come up with a viable theory.

Interesting choice of people, and yet again, utterly irrelevant to the subject at hand.

I guess you would fall into that list of interesting people now, wouldn't you?

Thank you,
Tim

[wollery]

I see you've given up even trying to address the actual points and questions put to you. You have no answers, so you resort to calling us negative.

Pathetic, truly pathetic.

[Hokulele]

Tim, I am going to give you one word here. If you can understand why this word is important to my post you quoted, this may have a chance. If you do not, you may want to learn something about it before you respond. Here is your word.

Hippocampus.

[Tim4848]

Tim - This is an odd response considering what you have yourself said about your experiment. You said that we need to think outside the box. You said that the potential results of your experiment would be so amazing that it should not matter if there is only a miniscule chance of it working. You said that the amount of money needed to do your experiment is so small and the potential gain so great that we should happily take the risk.

The same applies to calling the President. Making the call costs you nothing (or, at most, a couple of bucks). Explaining your idea costs you nothing. Sure, there's only a small chance that the President will get your message and respond positively but the potential gain is so great that you should take this chance. Think outside the box: take a risk; go straight to the top.

That was your message to us, wasn't it?

Call the President today at 202-456-1414.


I am glad to see that you are excited about this thought, please feel free to show me where I can find this number on my own.

Thank you,
Tim

[Tim4848]

I see you've given up even trying to address the actual points and questions put to you. You have no answers, so you resort to calling us negative.

Pathetic, truly pathetic.

I am not here to play games, I am not here to waste time, I am here to talk about my topic, as it evolves in a positive direction. Not endless road blocks of you can't do it because of this or you can't do it because of that. Nobody does anything unless there is something in it for them. If you have already decided this can not happen for what ever reason your emotional side of your brain believes, then please only reply on the negative topic site.

Thank you,
Tim

[Tim4848]

Tim, I am going to give you one word here. If you can understand why this word is important to my post you quoted, this may have a chance. If you do not, you may want to learn something about it before you respond. Here is your word.

Hippocampus.


At no point did I say that all out of Body Afterlife are going to be perfect, it still falls under natural selection. You don't always get what you want, but you do always get what you expect.

Thank you,
Tim

[Apathia]

I am not here to play games, I am not here to waste time, I am here to talk about my topic, as it evolves in a positive direction. Not endless road blocks of you can't do it because of this or you can't do it because of that. Nobody does anything unless there is something in it for them. If you have already decided this can not happen for what ever reason your emotional side of your brain believes, then please only reply on the negative topic site.

Thank you,
Tim

Go do it Tim. Believe and go do it. Don't waste any more of your time talking about it, especially to people who don't believe it.
We have nothing here to boister your belief. No useful information for you.
Unless you are here to troll, it is indeed a waste of your time.

[Tim4848]

To whom it may concern,

I will be out of town on vacation for a week with out a computer, so please be kind.

Thank you,
Tim

[Apathia]

At no point did I say that all out of Body Afterlife are going to be perfect, it still falls under natural selection. You don't always get what you want, but you do always get what you expect.

Thank you,
Tim

I now believe that you will get what you expect. So go get it.
You are not geting it here.

[wollery]

I am not here to play games, I am not here to waste time, I am here to talk about my topic, as it evolves in a positive direction. Not endless road blocks of you can't do it because of this or you can't do it because of that.You have been asked a lot of questions about how this might work, and flaws in your ideas have been pointed out. That's not negative, that's curiosity, and trying to make you look at it from a scientific perspective.

How can you possibly be against people asking questions that may well help you to see how you might go about this in a better way?

Nobody does anything unless there is something in it for them.Not true. You must be a very selfish person if this is how you view the world.

If you have already decided this can not happen for what ever reason your emotional side of your brain believes, then please only reply on the negative topic site.Please point to one post where I say categorically that OBEs or the afterlife do not exist. I never discount any possibility, until it has been proven impossible. I have pointed out where your versions of these ideas are flawed, but surely that should help you to narrow down your search, and if that isn't positive then what is?

At no point did I say that all out of Body Afterlife are going to be perfect, it still falls under natural selection. You don't always get what you want, but you do always get what you expect. Again, you are wrong. I often get what I do not expect, and do not get what I do expect.

I was fully expecting to meet someone this afternoon, but they haven't turned up. I applied for a grant earlier this year, although I didn't really expect to get it because I do not fulfil some of the criteria, but a couple of weeks ago I was informed that it had been awarded to me.

[Loss Leader]

I am glad to see that you are excited about this thought, please feel free to show me where I can find this number on my own.

Thank you,
Tim


I'm not sure why you'd need to independently verify the phone number or why you couldn't just look it up yourself, but here's the contact info (http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/) from the White House's own web page.

[Tim4848]

Thank you Loss leader

[Tim4848]

Dear wollery,

Every post I make is not aimed at you, and I do enjoy growing mentally by reading your replies, as I do with anybody who is willing to focus on this topic with an open mind.

Thank you,
Tim

[wollery]

Nice way to avoid answering my post. :clap:

[Little 10 Toes]

At no point did I say that all out of Body Afterlife are going to be perfect, it still falls under natural selection. You don't always get what you want, but you do always get what you expect.

Thank you,
Tim

I thought that natural selection only applied while you're alive.

"Natural selection acts on the phenotype, or the observable characteristics of an organism, such that individuals with favorable phenotypes are more likely to survive and reproduce than those with less favorable phenotypes." (second sentence in the wikipedia entry)

Yup, alive.

And why haven't you answered the basic question of: Do you consider "matter" and "energy" synonymous? It was asked on #177.

You mentioned that you would need subjects that have died of natural causes. Please define that since we are speaking of OBE/NDE subjects

[Tim4848]

I thought that natural selection only applied while you're alive.

Good question, I thought a lot about that while I was on vacation and my thoughts say you are right. Energy is always changing in form, but it stays the same internally

"Natural selection acts on the phenotype, or the observable characteristics of an organism, such that individuals with favorable phenotypes are more likely to survive and reproduce than those with less favorable phenotypes." (second sentence in the wikipedia entry)

Yup, alive.

And why haven't you answered the basic question of: Do you consider "matter" and "energy" synonymous? It was asked on #177.

I do!

You mentioned that you would need subjects that have died of natural causes. Please define that since we are speaking of OBE/NDE subjects

I say this in a way that allows this part of the topic to stay as simple as possible, in other words, suicide victims are not welcomed at this time.

Example:
Only BrainGate patients for now will be allowed to try this theory.

Thank you,
Tim

[wollery]

Good question, I thought a lot about that while I was on vacation and my thoughts say you are right. Energy is always changing in form, but it stays the same internallyPlease explain what that means. How can something change, but stay the same internally?

I do!In what way are matter and energy synonymous?

I say this in a way that allows this part of the topic to stay as simple as possible, in other words, suicide victims are not welcomed at this time.What do you have against suicide victims?

Example:
Only BrainGate patients for now will be allowed to try this theory.You have offered no scientific explanation, despite being asked repeatedly for one, and you're posting on a the science section of a forum frequented by a large number of scientist. Please stop calling it a theory, because it doesn't qualify as one.

[my_wan]

To make this theory work, is not the hard part, it's other factors that is slowing the process down. People who don't understand, and people who don't want to understand, because it is not in their best interest to understand.


I understand. I even took the time to understand because I wanted to. It is certainly in my best interest to understand because if I find myself dead and still thinking I want to know what my options are.

I just don't need your help doing it :covereyes.

[Tim4848]

Please explain what that means. How can something change, but stay the same internally?

It is no different than a balloon

In what way are matter and energy synonymous?

matter is a word that can measure anything

What do you have against suicide victims?

I personally have nothing against them at all

You have offered no scientific explanation, despite being asked repeatedly for one, and you're posting on a the science section of a forum frequented by a large number of scientist. Please stop calling it a theory, because it doesn't qualify as one.

What do you believe it is?


Thank you,
Tim

[Tim4848]

I understand. I even took the time to understand because I wanted to. It is certainly in my best interest to understand because if I find myself dead and still thinking I want to know what my options are.

Thank you my wan,

I love your reply, and you explained it so well.



I just don't need your help doing it :covereyes.

Please explain.

Thank you,
Tim

[wollery]

It is no different than a balloonPlease explain how a balloon changes whilst staying internally the same.

matter is a word that can measure anythingThat sentence may parse, but it doesn't actually mean anything. Therefore I cannot respond to it in any meaningful way, except to ask what you mean.

I personally have nothing against them at allThen why are they excluded?

What do you believe it is?An idea for a way to spend a lazy Sunday afternoon?

[my_wan]

Please explain.

Thank you,
Tim

That's was the whole point Tim. I explained in about every post I ever made to you. Yet when I state what I have so thoroughly explained many times you respond with "Please explain". Why would I believe you will suddenly start understanding if I explain again?

I'm sorry Tim but I can't help you.

[Tim4848]

Please explain how a balloon changes whilst staying internally the same.

The energy is always inside the balloon

That sentence may parse, but it doesn't actually mean anything. Therefore I cannot respond to it in any meaningful way, except to ask what you mean.

Matter is a value word

Then why are they excluded?

As far as I am aware of, suicide is a crime.

An idea for a way to spend a lazy Sunday afternoon?

I like it!

I have an idea on how we can communicate with future out of body afterlife people in a way that can be measured.

Thank you,
Tim

[wollery]

The energy is always inside the balloonWhat energy? How does the balloon change? What about it stays the same? What do you think the word energy means?

Matter is a value word Not in a scientific context. In science the word matter has a very specific meaning. Since you were using it in that context you must apply the meaning it has in that context.

As far as I am aware of, suicide is a crime.Where? Please cite the relevant law.

It certainly used to be a crime in some parts of the world. The penalty for attempted suicide was death.

Now that's ironic. (Alanis Morisette, please take note)

I like it!

I have an idea on how we can communicate with future out of body afterlife people in a way that can be measured.Thank you, that's a statement I can live with.

[Tim4848]

(Screams to settle nerves after reading such gobbledygook :shocked: )

Ok... ok... You keep asking we take your "theory" at face value (=0) so lets assume a braingate will work for a disembodies entity :eye-poppi (OBE). What do you you need a braingate for to make your case?
Can BrainGate read morse code thoughts?



Learn morse code and use an antenna. In fact if your future dead self remains as an electromagnetic field there are more ways to communicate with the living than I can count. Oh no we're dead!!!

Please feel free to list all the ways we can communicate with electrical thought, please fill free to list as many as you can count too.

Hey let's go mess with the SETI people :biggrin:.

I don't mess with anybody, I try and communicate the best I can with what I have to work with. Please let me make sure you understand where I am coming from. My idea has nothing to do with me.


We understand electricity and the technology used by braingate et al well enough that to know that if you are right the only thing to stop us from talking with the living with technologies in everyday use would be the ghost cops :(.

What are ghost cops?

My OBE (sort of)
When I was still going to grade school I had a dream I was on a bicycle being chased by someone else on a bicycle across my home town. Suddenly I realized I was dreaming which woke me up. That's when it got interesting. Although I was well awake instead of the dream images going away the image zoomed way up in the air. I was looking down at myself still on the bicycle going down main street with the other guy behind. I thought about other strange dreams I had had but none were like this. It occurred to me that if I opened my eyes the image would go away so I began looking around at the town. I couldn't actually move because attempting to do so just made me aware of my body. I didn't want that. I could see a Killdeer roaming the gravel tops of the building near its' nest. Sparrows nesting in various holes in the building. I looked over at the railroad tracks on the west end of main street. Then thought to look at the east end toward my Aunts house. I starred at it a while hoping to see someone I knew come out. Never happened. Then I decided to open my eyes real quick and shut them again to see if the image would go away. It did. Since then there have been a couple of instances where I woke up before the visual dreaming actually stopped but only momentarily. Yes I really was wide awake.

With your experience I can see why you feel the way you do, but it was not my experience, and that is what my idea is based on.

This experience might actually provides clues to what an OBE is. If the visual cortex can remain in a dream state while the higher brain functions remains awake then the perception would be determined by the beliefs of the person experiencing it. For instance it never occurred to me that I might actually have separated from my body. Therefore any attempt at moving required me to consider my body potentially corrupting the experience (waking my visual cortex). If this is what is occurring there is no innate reason why some people can't have there visual cortex go into a dream state without their higher brain functions ever reaching a sleep state first. A dreaming visual cortex would then blindly serve up the definition of the situation the same way it does in a regular dream. It would be very closely related to sleep paralysis where the motor cortex fails to wake up when you do.

I see nothing wrong in asking more questions in both directions

Positive or negative

Thank you,
Tim

[Tim4848]

What energy? How does the balloon change? What about it stays the same? What do you think the word energy means?

movement


Not in a scientific context. In science the word matter has a very specific meaning. Since you were using it in that context you must apply the meaning it has in that context.

It really doesn't matter.


Where? Please cite the relevant law.

Wollery, please feel free to inform me on why this is so important to you?

It certainly used to be a crime in some parts of the world. The penalty for attempted suicide was death.

Where I come from, they do not like people bringing bodily harm to them self's or other people, now that does not sound like somebody I would want to use for my idea, do you?


Now that's ironic. (Alanis Morisette, please take note)

Thank you, that's a statement I can live with.

I'm glad I can make you happy.

Thank you,
Tim

[wollery]

I'm sorry Tim, but your inability to use the stunningly simple quote feature is giving me a headache. I'm having real difficulty discerning which parts of your posts are quoted and which are your responses, even when it's my own post you are responding to!

It also makes responding to you by quoting your posts a real pain in the fundamental orifice.