s the Bible indecent? HK officials have 208 complaints saying it is

[cgallaga]

A few months ago, the Hong Kong Censor found a TV production indecent that showed gay couples in Hong Kong and how they faced discrimination. The Television and Entertainment Licensing Authority said it [the show] was promoting a gay lifestyle. Then a few weeks ago a University academic publication published a sex survey results which in part asked about incestuous fantasy and was found indecent by the TELA.

Today a small independent group has launched (so far) 208 complaints that the bible is indecent, using the exact same methods and reasons that were used in the above two cases.

http://www.scmp.com/topnews/ZZZC2OC0I1F.html (need subscription)

[front page link, the story is cover page material] SCMP (http://www.scmp.com)

The Bible became a target of indecency complaints yesterday after an anonymous website launched a campaign asking people to put pressure on the Television and Entertainment Licensing Authority to reclassify the holy text as an indecent publication.

The Chinese-language website www.truthbible.net (http://www.truthbible.net/) said the Bible was full of stories and references to incest, rape, cannibalism and violence in both the Old and New Testaments.

Tela confirmed yesterday it had received 208 complaints, more than double the number of complaints it received over the past week about the Chinese University Student Press, which resulted in two issues being classified by the Obscene Articles Tribunal as indecent on Monday.

<SNIP Edited for copyright reasons, I will look for better, free media links as the story develops and post them here>

If the complaints were upheld, by law it would mean full texts of the Bible would be deemed suitable to be read only by over-18s, and copies would need to carry a warning and be sold in sealed packaging.

[Beerina]

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

[g4macdad]

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Matthew 26:52

Nice Quote.:cool:

Wisdom from King Jesus.

[g4macdad]

Don't they sell used women's underwear in vending machines in Hong Kong? Hmmm.

They sure have their priorities in line.

[strathmeyer]

Don't they sell used women's underwear in vending machines in Hong Kong? Hmmm.

They sure have their priorities in line.

Yes. Hahaha. Let's laugh at the people who aren't like us! I bet they don't even speak English! Those savages!

[g4macdad]

Yes. Hahaha. Let's laugh at the people who aren't like us! I bet they don't even speak English! Those savages!

HUH?:boggled:

[jimtron]

Yes, the Bible is indecent. It's rife with intolerance, hatred, violence, and lurid sex. And with all that going for it, I'm still not a believer.

[cgallaga]

Don't they sell used women's underwear in vending machines in Hong Kong? Hmmm.

They sure have their priorities in line.

No I believe that would be Tokyo, but as I have not been in a few years I'm not sure if that still happens.

Yes. Hahaha. Let's laugh at the people who aren't like us! I bet they don't even speak English! Those savages!

Being a former British Colony it may be that English Language literacy in Hong Kong is greater than that of the USA, but I really don't know for sure.

[jimtron]

Maybe I was too quick to call it indecent. Maybe some people find feces eating perfectly decent, and who am I to judge?

[Zep]

Is HK the only country (yes, I know HK is not really a "country") to be operating under these same "decency" guidelines?

I think not.

So is it likely the same or very similar inadequacies, oversights and gotchas can be found elsewhere?

I suspect so!

So no real reason to sheet the problem home to be JUST HK. It's not unique.

[cgallaga]

It is unique in that 1. The people here are fighting their own government not anyone elses and 2. they thought up the (IHNSHO) brilliant tactic of calling the decency of bible into question. It may also be unique in that Christians are somewhere around only 10% of the population so, they will be hard pressed to gain strong public support.

[Magyar]

Yes, the Bible is indecent. It's rife with intolerance, hatred, violence, and lurid sex. And with all that going for it, I'm still not a believer.

can I take this and make it into a bumper sticker?

[fuelair]

Matthew 26:52

Nice Quote.:cool:

Wisdom from King Jesus.
That would be Myth jebus.:D

[Mojo]

Yes, the Bible is indecent. It's rife with intolerance, hatred, violence, and lurid sex. And with all that going for it, I'm still not a believer.


Does this (http://www.thebricktestament.com/) persuade you?

[cgallaga]

Two more links and the numbers climbed today to 838 complaints! :)

http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/411749/1126754

A spokesperson for Hong Kong's Television and Entertainment Licensing authority (TELA) said it had received 838 complaints about the Bible by noon on Wednesday.http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/news/stories/s1924723.htm

[ponderingturtle]

It is unique in that 1. The people here are fighting their own government not anyone elses and 2. they thought up the (IHNSHO) brilliant tactic of calling the decency of bible into question. It may also be unique in that Christians are somewhere around only 10% of the population so, they will be hard pressed to gain strong public support.

The problem is that I don't expect this to work as all censorship programs are rife with double standards.

[Darth Rotor]

It is unique in that 1. The people here are fighting their own government not anyone elses and 2. they thought up the (IHNSHO) brilliant tactic of calling the decency of bible into question. It may also be unique in that Christians are somewhere around only 10% of the population so, they will be hard pressed to gain strong public support.

In some places, that would be called picking on a minority group. Why not in Hong Kong? Perhaps I misconstrue the state of play.

DR

[Darth Rotor]

The problem is that I don't expect this to work as all censorship programs are rife with double standards.

PT, while I agree with your general observation about structural weaknesses in censorship programs, I don't see that as an obastacle to a successful program of censorship in China.

What other factors do you (or others) feel are obstacles to censorship succeeding in this case?

DR

[joesixpack]

Being a former British Colony it may be that English Language literacy in Hong Kong is greater than that of the USA, but I really don't know for sure.

The USA is a former British Colony. ;-)

[cgallaga]

In some places, that would be called picking on a minority group. Why not in Hong Kong? Perhaps I misconstrue the state of play.

DR

Well, the argument is with a secular body of the government. Not with Christians. The people who started this are asking for the same treatment for the bible as the authority used in censoring of academic papers.

But Hong Kong is not quite the same as China, we have our own courts and rule and even our own constitution separate from China. Compared to the mainland Hong Kong is very very western in terms of politics, liberty and law, though conservative western to be sure.

The academics are under real threat of significant fines and possibly imprisonment if they fail in their appeal. So the action is in part a strong protest, but it just may have legs of its own.

As of 7:16 tonight on SCMP

More than 1,400 indecency complaints have been filed against the Bible - nearly 10 times more than those lodged against the Chinese University student journal.

The Television and Entertainment Licensing Authority yesterday confirmed 1,406 complaints were received and two of the complaints were made by phone and fax. The rest were filed by e-mail.

About 168 complaints have been filed against the university¡¦s Student Press.

This is pretty significant numbers in just one day. I believe the numbers for the case against the academics took weeks to accrue.

[ponderingturtle]

PT, while I agree with your general observation about structural weaknesses in censorship programs, I don't see that as an obastacle to a successful program of censorship in China.

What other factors do you (or others) feel are obstacles to censorship succeeding in this case?

DR

Oh I think this case is well done, but just because you point out a bias in the system do not expect change to result from that. For example most people would say that exposing kids in school to a program glorifying teen suicide is bad but Shakespeare is good even if it is Romeo and Juliette.

So basically I do not think that pointing out hypocrisy is always effective in ending it, but it is certainly a good thing to do.

[cgallaga]

The USA is a former British Colony. ;-)
Well new england anyway...

[jimtron]

Does this (http://www.thebricktestament.com/) persuade you?

Yes, now I see the light! Thanks for saving me.

[Darth Rotor]

Well new england anyway...

So too that old debtor's prison, Georgia, ;) and Virginia, named for a "virgin queen."

DR

[cgallaga]

Update...This morning I have seen the story on AP, Reuters, Fox, and even USA Today! :D

Here is an excerpt from our own little city.

The Standard (http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?we_cat=4&art_id=44667&sid=13640044&con_type=1&d_str=20070517).



<snip>

As of Wednesday evening, there were 1,046 complaints against the Bible compared with 168 complaints against the student publications which Tuesday were given a Category II rating by the Obscene Articles Tribunal.

<snip>

She said the authority was studying whether to refer the complaints to the tribunal for classification.

<snip>

The anonymous webmaster of the Chinese site www.truthbible.net (http://www.truthbible.net), which had launched the latest campaign against the Bible, said it had been under hacker attacks on its server from 11am to 3pm Wednesday, and some of the letters sent to TELA through the page during the period might be generated by an automated program.

"We urge people to re-send their complaint letters to TELA," the page reads.

The anonymous webmaster did not rule out reporting the suspected hacker attacks to police for further investigation.

He also stressed he did not know any of the Chinese University students involved in the journal saga, or that the campaign was in response to the tribunal's ruling.

The webmaster wrote in a letter to the authority that about 70 excerpts in a Chinese Union version of the holy text contained material on incest, rape, violence and cannibalism which was "far beyond commonly acceptable moral standards of society."

<snip>

To illustrate its point on rape, the Web site cited Genesis 19:8, which reads: "See now, I have two unmarried daughters; I will send them out to you so that you may do to them whatever seems good to you: only do nothing to these men, for this is why they have come under the shade of my roof."

On indecency, Isaiah 3:17 - "The Lord will send disease on the heads of the daughters of Zion, and the Lord will let their secret parts be seen" - was quoted.

<snip>

[strathmeyer]

In America, you'd only have to convince five people that the Holy Bible is indecent, as long as they were all Supreme Court Justices.

[cgallaga]

And the first refusal is in...I am hoping for an appeal...we shall see.

The city's media watchdog yesterday rejected more than 2,000 complaints against the Bible, saying it was part of human civilisation and its contents were not offensive to reasonable members of the community.

In a statement issued last night, the Television and Entertainment Licensing Authority said: "The Bible is a religious text which is part of civilisation. It has been passed on from generation to generation.

"Tela considers that such longstanding religious texts or literature have not violated standards of morality, decency and propriety generally accepted by reasonable members of the community.

"Therefore, Tela will not submit the Bible to the Obscene Articles Tribunal for classification."

More than 2,000 indecency complaints were sent to the authority at the prompting of an anonymous website - www.truthbible.net (http://www.truthbible.net) - which was upset that sex columns and a survey published by the Chinese University's Student Press were ruled indecent by the Obscene Articles Tribunal. http://hongkong.scmp.com/hknews/ZZZ0BAQXH1F.html

Full story for free at The Standard (http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?we_cat=4&art_id=44741&sid=13667545&con_type=1&d_str=20070518)

I think claiming the bible is somehow a part of (as opposed to, opposed to) civilisation is a stretch; but apparently if you have been obscene for generations it is no longer offensive.

[cgallaga]

There is allegedly an appeal being made to the Ombudsman (Hong Kong Internal Government Watchdog).

http://hongkong.scmp.com/hknews/ZZZ3QZE0I1F.html


The anonymous website that prompted an avalanche of complaints about indecent material in the Bible vowed yesterday to take its case to the ombudsman after the standards watchdog decided not to pursue the complaints.

Truthbible.net yesterday carried a message calling on the public to write to the Office of the Ombudsman to ask for an investigation into the Television and Entertainment Licensing Authority over its apparent inconsistent application of standards. "I very much agree that the Bible is a religious text, [and that] Catholicism and Christianity are a part of human development, but this certainly does not mean Bible content about abnormal sex and violence are in keeping with the moral standards of normal Hongkongers," it said.

<snip>

Truthbible.net contrasted this decision with previous Tela rulings, including finding Michelangelo's statue of David indecent.

<snip>

A Tela spokesman said that by 5pm yesterday the authority had received 2,307 complaints citing indecent and offensive passages in the Bible since the campaign began. It is the largest number received about a single publication since last August, when about 2,800 people complained about Easyfinder magazine's cover photograph of pop star Gillian Chung Yan-tung changing her clothes backstage. The authority has received 225 complaints about the sex survey in the Chinese University Student Post.

[geni]

Don't they sell used women's underwear in vending machines in Hong Kong? Hmmm.


Nope. Happened in japan for a bit but the authorities eventualy figured they could stop it by useing laws that were meant to regulate antique tradeing

[cgallaga]

So I have decided to join the fray.

Our government was widely quoted in our press as saying:
Meanwhile, Secretary for Commerce, Industry and Technology Joseph Wong Wing-ping has appealed to the public not to submit to Tela material that was clearly not obscene or indecent to most people. He said Tela would not deal with the obviously "senseless" complaints received against the Bible. "The authority will not deal with the complaints which the majority of the society would consider senseless and just pranks," he said.
I have a pretty good standing as letter contributor to SCMP with almost all submissions published, so I have submitted the following, see if it gets in.

Secretary for Commerce, Industry and Technology Joseph Wong Wing-ping, has demonstrated just how broken our undemocratic and all too bureaucratic government really is.

His statement that TELA alone can and will decide what constitutes a reasonable complaint, and that it will ignore all complaints that do not fit its preordained model; are the very essence of confirmation bias, and government censorship of the people, against the people. Thus a few hundred complaints agreed by TELA will generate aggressive censorship, while over 2000 will be summarily dismissed because the complaints offend the alleged Christian sensibility of the bureaucrat (it is interesting to note that only about 10% of us claim to be Christian).

We have been given a look behind the curtain and the wizard of our fair city is apparently a bumbling incompetent who ignores the clear call of the people all the while claiming to know what the majority of society really wants.