Pulitzer Prize-winning cartoonist repeats Nazi anti-Semitic Imagery

[Nie Trink Wasser]

The HonestReporting communique of July 31 addressed syndicated cartoonist Tony Auth's portrayal of the Israeli security fence as a Star of David that traps Palestinians within:

Weblogger Mike Silverman has found a Nazi propaganda poster from the 1930s that is disturbingly similar to Auth's cartoon. The Nazi version depicts a "Star of David Wall" around various European peoples:

It is unlikely that Tony Auth realized he was replicating a Nazi cartoon. On the other hand, if he didn't realize, that's in a sense far more unsettling — that this Pulitzer Prize-winning cartoonist would independently revive what is historically considered the worst anti-Semitic imagery.

Either way, the appearance of classical Nazi imagery in major American newspapers is certainly alarming.

http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/critiques/Prisoners_Fact_vs._Fiction.asp


http://images.ucomics.com/comics/ta/2003/ta030731.gif http://www.honestreporting.com/graphics/nazistar2.jpg

[JamesM]

I think if Israel wants to avoid people drawing cartoons with fences and stars of David in them, what they might want to think about doing is to stop building that ruddy great fence and/or remove the star of David from their flag.

The charges of anti-semitism seem pretty spurious on this occasion. What I did find a little bit disturbing was the following article from the BBC website:
Interpreting Egypt's anti-semitic cartoons (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3136059.stm)
Mohammed Salmawy, who edits the state-owned newspaper, Al-Ahram Hebdo, defends the use of old European myths like the blood libel - the accusation that Jews use the blood of Christians when making the matzo bread for Passover.

He says journalists are merely digging around - using the equivalent of Greek myths or fairy stories - to convey their horror at the Israeli occupation.
Well, that's OK then! Does this article strike anyone else as being rather apologetic for anti-semitism, or am I just being a bit over-sensitive?

Apologies to NTW for this slight thread-jack.

[Malachi151]

Why would anyone think that it's not intentional? I would assume immediately that is was intentional. Its not as though people are not aware of those images. That stuff was majorly publicized back then, anyone that lived in that time would have been exposed to it, and anyone after that time would easily be exposed to it if they areinto researchign Nazi history.

My bet, intentional.

[Mr Manifesto]

I know this will be hard to believe for anyone who's a big fan of NES's links like I am- but the article is bollocks.

The Nazi cartoon was drawn before the creation of Israel. It was an attack on all Jews- the cartoon was anti-Semitic. Auth's cartoon is a criticism of Israel and the way that she is dividing the Palestinian people with checkpoints, walls, etc, etc, etc. It is not a criticism of all Jewish people, only the country of Israel which, it has been pointed out, has a star of David in it's flag.

If it were the US doing something similar, we could expect Auth to do a cartoon that goes something like this:

******______________________________________
******______________________________________
******______________________________________
:( :( _____________________________________
__________________________________________
__________________________________________
__________________________________________

The cartoon would hardly be 'anti-Caucasian' or supporting an anti-white racist regime like sections of the Black Panters for example, now, would it?

Nie Essen Stiershießen.

[Nie Trink Wasser]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto

The Nazi cartoon was drawn before the creation of Israel. It was an attack on all Jews- the cartoon was anti-Semitic. Auth's cartoon is a criticism of Israel and the way that she is dividing the Palestinian people with checkpoints, walls, etc, etc, etc. It is not a criticism of all Jewish people, only the country of Israel which, it has been pointed out, has a star of David in it's flag.



oh wow. So since the star of david is used on a flag, it's okay for a cartoonist to be insensitive about those Nazis and how irrelevant their propaganda was to the Jews. Wow.

those darned Jews and their agendas to enslave Palestinians and take over the world. Gee.

I wonder what it would be like for someone to use the Crescent star of Islam in a cartoon accusing them of the very same deeds. Gee, that wouldnt be insensitive and irresponsible. :rolleyes:

I mean afterall..it is used on a flag.





If it were the US doing something similar, we could expect Auth to do a cartoon that goes something like this:

******______________________________________
******______________________________________
******______________________________________
:( :( _____________________________________
__________________________________________
__________________________________________
__________________________________________

The cartoon would hardly be 'anti-Caucasian' or supporting an anti-white racist regime like sections of the Black Panters for example, now, would it?

Nie Essen Stiershießen.
[/b]



fight harder to justify all of the sick ideas coming out of your camps instead of being honest about it.

[Nie Trink Wasser]

watch !

I can play the fun game too !


http://aaronn.monoperative.net/ccni.gif

[Nie Trink Wasser]

Originally posted by JamesM
[B]I think if Israel wants to avoid people drawing cartoons with fences and stars of David in them, what they might want to think about doing is to stop building that ruddy great fence and/or remove the star of David from their flag.



how are they supposed to stop people from coming into their communities and blowing up civilians ?

you have to at least try and understand that they're attempting to secure themselves, because they know how Arafat works.

[JamesM]

Originally posted by Nie Trink Wasser

how are they supposed to stop people from coming into their communities and blowing up civilians ?


I don't know. I wasn't talking about whether the fence is a good or bad thing, but whether the appearance of a fence and a star of David in a political cartoon is automatically anti-semitic.

[Cleon]

Disclaimer: I am a non-Zionist Jew.

The reality is, the Israeli regime is acting in a matter consistent with Nazi Germany. Drawing comparisons between the two isn't "anti-semitic," it's simply acknowledging reality.

Right now, as I type this, Israel is building a wall to essentially separate Palestinian communities from Israeli "proper." (It's worth noting that this wall is being constructed without any consideration of whether it goes through Palestinians' property or homes.) These communities have been under military occupation since Israel conquered them in 1967. Of course, the IDF will control all access to those territories, as well as all trade going in and out. When the Germans did this in Warsaw, they called it a ghetto!

Right now Benny Elon, Israel's tourism minister, is visiting the United States. Elon belongs to a political party called Moledet, which favors making all of Israel--including the occupied territories--free of Palestinians, by forced expulsion. (I should point out that Elon himself is an open advocate of this type of war crime, it's not just a party he belongs to.) Far from being a "fringe idea," people with "transfer"--as much a euphemism as "final solution"--as their main political line are in positions of power within the Israeli government.

No, Israel has not--yet--cranked up a massive system of slavery and death, a la Auschwitz, Treblinka, and the rest. But given the blatant racism espoused by prominent people in Israeli politics--especially the "settler" communities--does anyone really think it's beyond the realm of possibility? Or, scarier yet, consider that many people would even defend it in the name of "fighting terrorism."

Israel thrives on anti-Semitism, both real and perceived. Zionists claim that Israel is the "state of the Jewish people" (I, for one, would beg to differ), but dare to use a Mogen David to represent Israel and they cry foul! It's on the friggin flag, for crying out loud! But without this constant claim of anti-Semitism, financial and guilt-driven political support for Israel would dwindle. Ah, and the vicious cycle continues...

Sorry, normally I'm a pretty cheerful guy, but this is something I feel pretty strongly about. Israel is not some innocent victim living amidst Arab hordes. It's a racist regime that doesn't care how many people it kills for the sake of its own twisted idea of Manifest Destiny.

[Nie Trink Wasser]

Originally posted by Cleon
Disclaimer: I am a non-Zionist Jew.


riiiiight, sure.

your comments are noted, but from your post count and the tone of your post, Im assuming you're a troll.



The reality is, the Israeli regime is acting in a matter consistent with Nazi Germany.


appropriate examples of this ?

let's not use the broad brush of a "fascism argument" because that can be applied to both sides.



Drawing comparisons between the two isn't "anti-semitic," it's simply acknowledging reality.


there is no comparison. Isreal is trying to keep suicide bombers out and using calculated military attacks to take out key leaders responsible for mass death. The Nazi's gathered people up, enclosed them and executed them in mass, simply because of how they were born. hmmm......seems more similar to fanatical Islamic martyrs than Israel if you ask me.



Right now, as I type this, Israel is building a wall to essentially separate Palestinian communities from Israeli "proper."


If you're trying to play with a bourgeois meme, spare me.
they aren't putting up a fence to "protect the rich from the poor"......they're building a fence to deter suicide bombers from killing groups of people.



(It's worth noting that this wall is being constructed without any consideration of whether it goes through Palestinians' property or homes.)


Im quite sure there has been some consideration. They've had a long time to think it over.


These communities have been under military occupation since Israel conquered them in 1967.


These commmunties want the land back that was given to Israel by the international community. They blow up people and Israel reacts.


Of course, the IDF will control all access to those territories, as well as all trade going in and out. When the Germans did this in Warsaw, they called it a ghetto!


Israel isnt trying to expand it's borders.




Right now Benny Elon, Israel's tourism minister, is visiting the United States. Elon belongs to a political party called Moledet, which favors making all of Israel--including the occupied territories--free of Palestinians, by forced expulsion. (I should point out that Elon himself is an open advocate of this type of war crime, it's not just a party he belongs to.) Far from being a "fringe idea," people with "transfer"--as much a euphemism as "final solution"--as their main political line are in positions of power within the Israeli government.


I would like to see some official proof of this. Smells like troll conspiracy.





No, Israel has not--yet--cranked up a massive system of slavery and death, a la Auschwitz, Treblinka, and the rest.


nor will they in the future, but the meme helps push your fiction.



But given the blatant racism espoused by prominent people in Israeli politics--especially the "settler" communities--does anyone really think it's beyond the realm of possibility?


racism is a buzzword you're using to generate a response. You arent telling both sides of the story.


Or, scarier yet, consider that many people would even defend it in the name of "fighting terrorism."


LOL... yeah, I forgot.....Islamic fundamentalist terrorism doesnt exist. Forgive me.



Israel thrives on anti-Semitism, both real and perceived.


sort of like the NAACP, eh ? Remember that Jewish conspiracy about 911 that many people still believe ?


Zionists claim that Israel is the "state of the Jewish people" (I, for one, would beg to differ), but dare to use a Mogen David to represent Israel and they cry foul!


Israel was established by the international community.



It's on the friggin flag, for crying out loud! But without this constant claim of anti-Semitism, financial and guilt-driven political support for Israel would dwindle. Ah, and the vicious cycle continues...


If would be different if it's opponents didnt keep lying about body counts and accusing them of trying to take over the world.



Sorry, normally I'm a pretty cheerful guy, but this is something I feel pretty strongly about. Israel is not some innocent victim living amidst Arab hordes.


no the aren't, but the fanatical Arab dupes who begin their lives looking forward to matyrdome arent helping everyone to live in peace now, are they ?



It's a racist regime that doesn't care how many people it kills for the sake of its own twisted idea of Manifest Destiny. [/B]


buzzword fiction.

[JamesM]

Originally posted by Cleon
The reality is, the Israeli regime is acting in a matter consistent with Nazi Germany. Drawing comparisons between the two isn't "anti-semitic," it's simply acknowledging reality.
It's also a touch hyperbolic. Would you like to list all the laws that Nazi Germany passed discriminating against Jews, and then show that Israel has enacted analogous ones against Arabs?


When the Germans did this in Warsaw, they called it a ghetto!
I fail to see the connection. The Warsaw ghetto was established by moving all the Jews of Warsaw and the surrounding areas into a small area of the city. This was the first part of a plan of 'liquidation' which involved transportation to the east. The fence in Israel is designed to keep suicide bombers out, and also probably to establish 'facts on the ground' to be taken into account when creating any Palestinian state. It may very well be a bad idea, there is no need to drag the Warsaw ghetto into it.


No, Israel has not--yet--cranked up a massive system of slavery and death, a la Auschwitz, Treblinka, and the rest.

So Israel hasn't done something that the Nazis did. That does not support your contention of a connection between the two.

It's perfectly legitimate to be opposed to the actions of the Israeli government, and the odious opinions held by some sections of Israeli society without using the weak 'Israel = Nazi Germany' argument. Why can't these criticisms stand on their own merits, without recourse to inappropriate historical comparisons? A country can carry out lamentable activities (and people are capable of recognising them as such) without it resembling the actions of Nazi Germany.

edited to fix grammar

[Dancing David]

Yes it is ironic and deliberate, but there do seem to be some similarities, the conversation seems to be taking the usual sides.
If you say anything against Israel then you are anti semitic.
If you compare anything Israel does to anything anybody else does then it is exageration.
If you say one side is wrong then someone will say they are right.

Israel is part of the cycle, I think that the wall is a bad idea for many reasons, but if it makes them feel safer than they will build it.

All sides will have to be patient in the face of ongoing violence for there to be a resolution to the bloodshed.

[Cleopatra]

Originally posted by JamesM
I think if Israel wants to avoid people drawing cartoons with fences and stars of David in them, what they might want to think about doing is to stop building that ruddy great fence and/or remove the star of David from their flag.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

As for Cleon, I leave him to you.

[Nie Trink Wasser]

Originally posted by JamesM


I don't know. I wasn't talking about whether the fence is a good or bad thing, but whether the appearance of a fence and a star of David in a political cartoon is automatically anti-semitic.


the fence (as the star) is being used in an oppresive sense, just as the Nazi cartoon represents it.

It is identifying the oppression with a symbol of an ancient religion.

Islam's Cresent Star is of the same nature. It appears on flags, but if you use that symbol you aren't addressing one country...you are addressing something ancient.....something that stirs up religious emotional response.

Have you ever seen the Cresent Star used in such a fashion ? If it were used, people would cry racism and hatred, but since this is Israel, it is permitted.

it's an irresponsible cartoon harkening to anti-semetic Nazi propaganda and in essence is damning the Star of David and casting the nation of Israel as it's figure head.

using such symbols in that manner is vicious to both Israel and those of Islamic faith.

[Cleopatra]

Originally posted by Nie Trink Wasser
[B]


the fence (as the star) is being used in an oppresive sense, just as the Nazi cartoon represents it.

It is identifying the oppression with a symbol of an ancient religion.



Althought it hurts, as an Israeli citizen I must admit that the state of Israel is building this fence in order to oppress both Palestinian and Israeli populations.

The "old" guard" of "Politicians" ( in "" because they come from the Army) seems to be persuaded that a policy of segregation will be the factor that will keep Isreal together.

They want us apart from the Palestinians something that I-- who has been born there-- find completely funny, because this cannot happen.

Walls cannot keep people apart, on the contrary, walls make people to desire with passion to live together.

As for the symbol, James is right. Since they we have it on the flag we must be the ones to respect it on the first place.

[JamesM]

Originally posted by Nie Trink Wasser

It is identifying the oppression with a symbol of an ancient religion.

Yeah, but it's also the symbol of the modern state of Israel. What with the fence and all that, it seems clear that the reference is to Israel and not to Jews in general.


Have you ever seen the Cresent Star used in such a fashion?

No, but I don't look at many political cartoons. Also, as the Crescent represents more than one country, its use would be more problematic, anyway.


it's an irresponsible cartoon harkening to anti-semetic Nazi propaganda

Well there we will have to agree to disagree. I don't feel that it is consciously referring to Nazi cartoons. Nazis didn't like Jews, so they used the Star of David in their cartoons. The Israeli flag uses the Star of David, so cartoonists commenting on Israel are likely to use it also. The two are not necessarily connected.

Originally posted by Dancing David

If you compare anything Israel does to anything anybody else does then it is exageration.
If it is an exaggeration I see nothing wrong with pointing that out. We are not such morons that we cannot assess the transgressions of the Israeli government without convenient "that's what Hitler did and he was BAD!" hand-holding.

My personal feeling is that there enough salient differences between Israel & the Occupied Territories and Nazi Germany (or Apartheid South Africa for that matter) that the comparisons are inaccurate and unhelpful. Moreover, it also trivialises the experiences of people who have struggled and died under those regimes. There is no need for this one-size-fits-all moral outrage.

[Cleon]

Originally posted by Nie Trink Wasser


riiiiight, sure.

your comments are noted, but from your post count and the tone of your post, Im assuming you're a troll.

If you like. I'll be sure to be worried about it.



appropriate examples of this ?

let's not use the broad brush of a "fascism argument" because that can be applied to both sides.

Certainly. Walling off an entire population, racist rules regarding land ownership and rental, discriminatory policy regarding citizenship, voting, etc.



there is no comparison. Isreal is trying to keep suicide bombers out and using calculated military attacks to take out key leaders responsible for mass death. The Nazi's gathered people up, enclosed them and executed them in mass, simply because of how they were born. hmmm......seems more similar to fanatical Islamic martyrs than Israel if you ask me.


Funny how those "calculated military attacks to take out key leaders responsible for mass death" wind up killing more Palestinians than Palestinians kill Israelis, isn't it?

Funny how Israel is constantly trying to remove the rights of all Palestinians, no matter their religion, and gets away with (literally) murder, isn't it?


If you're trying to play with a bourgeois meme, spare me.
they aren't putting up a fence to "protect the rich from the poor"......they're building a fence to deter suicide bombers from killing groups of people.


Actually, I use the phrase "Israel Proper" ("Proper" is a geographical term, used to describe borders) because the West Bank and Gaza aren't technically part of Israel. They're territories occupied, militarily, by Israel.


These commmunties want the land back that was given to Israel by the international community. They blow up people and Israel reacts.


So if the "International Community" (read: United Nations) decided that you should be kicked off the land you and your family have owned for decades because Group XXX needs a "homeland," you wouldn't have a problem with this? I call bull.


Israel isnt trying to expand it's borders.


If you look at the actual borders given to Israel in 1948, and compare it with the borders it claims now, it's very difficult to make that claim seriously.



I would like to see some official proof of this. Smells like troll conspiracy.


LOL...Sure, if you like. Here's an article the guy wrote himself on "transfer" (i.e., expulsion):

http://www.moledet.org/transfer.html

Google. It's your friend. Use it.


nor will they in the future, but the meme helps push your fiction.


And you know this because....?

Do you really deny that sufficient religious zealotry exists for such a thing? I mean, have you ever even heard of groups like Kach and Kahane Chai?



racism is a buzzword you're using to generate a response. You arent telling both sides of the story.


Racism is most certainly an accurate description. I could call it "apartheid" and it would be just as accurate.

The reality is, Israel systematically discriminates against its Arab population, both in Israel Proper and in the occupied territories. Palestinians--again, no matter what their religion--do not have equal rights or equal protection under the law. Israel repeatedly bulldozes their homes, steals their land, kills whomever they wish, imprisons people without trial, tortures them, and cry "anti-semitism" whenever anyone says anything about it. And that's just the stuff Israel admits to!


LOL... yeah, I forgot.....Islamic fundamentalist terrorism doesnt exist. Forgive me.


Certainly it exists. As does Jewish fundamentalist terrorism. The difference is that one has state power, a heavily equipped armed forces, and all the money it wants from Uncle Sam to carry out its policies. The other, on the other hand, is a small percentage of an impoverished population that is constantly denied political, civil, and human rights.


sort of like the NAACP, eh ? Remember that Jewish conspiracy about 911 that many people still believe ?

I've never actually met anyone who believes in that particular myth--and I know a fair number of Muslims and Palestinians.

Israel was established by the international community.

Israel was established by the United Nations, with heavy prodding from Britain. I fail to see how this gives them the right to do what they please with non-Jews who had the misfortune of being born in the territory that the UN decided to give to Israel.



If would be different if it's opponents didnt keep lying about body counts and accusing them of trying to take over the world.


Ah, the body count thing. The greatest myth among the Israel apologists.

The problem with that is when the UN wanted to send in an investigation, Israel wouldn't let them. Every impartial body who did manage to visit Jenin was horrified. In the end, the UN decided to rely on IDF reports and what was reported by the Western media (which also largely came from the IDF) as a basis of its report indicating 50-something people died. If you think that's a reliable, inpartial way to conduct an investigation, there's nothing I can do for you.

But suppose it is accurate. On September 11, the initial reports coming through indicates death tolls in the tens of thousands. Of course, we know now it wasn't nearly that high, but in chaotic situations that's what happens. You can't find someone? You worry that they're dead.

Of course, nobody has any business claiming the Palestinians "lied" based on an "investigation" that used the IDF as its main source. That's ridiculous.


no the aren't, but the fanatical Arab dupes who begin their lives looking forward to matyrdome arent helping everyone to live in peace now, are they ?


What about the fanatical Jewish dupes who want to kick all the Arabs off "their" land, which--I feel the need to remind you--includes land most assuredly not given to Israel by the UN?


buzzword fiction.

Sounds like denial.

[Mike B.]

Originally posted by JamesM

It's perfectly legitimate to be opposed to the actions of the Israeli government, and the odious opinions held by some sections of Israeli society without using the weak 'Israel = Nazi Germany' argument. Why can't these criticisms stand on their own merits, without recourse to inappropriate historical comparisons? A country can carrying out lamentable activities (and people are capable of recognising them as such) without it resembling the actions of Nazi Germany.

Very well said.

:)

[Skeptic]

I think if Israel wants to avoid people drawing cartoons with fences and stars of David in them, what they might want to think about doing is to stop building that ruddy great fence

OK, quiz time: Until (almost) three years ago, NOBODY in israel contemplated building such a fence to box the palestinians in. Have the palestinians done something in the meantime which might have made this fense popular? If so, can you guess what it is?

Actually, I agree with your claim that this drawing is, if anti-israeli in tone, certainly not "antisemitic", at least not in intention. Quite apart from the fact that the cartoonist in question almost certainly never seen the obscure nazi cartoon his imagery is supposedly "based" on, the nazi cartoon obviously claim that the jews are taking over the entire world, while the British cartoonist merely claims that the israelies are mistreating the Palestinians.

It is just that I am sick and tired of people acting so TOTALLY surprised that israel, after three years of unending suicide attacks on its people, builds a fence to protect itself, and that this is seen as some sort of awful "act of agression". Apparently, when the world wants israel to stop being "agressive", what it means is that it wants it to not defend itself in any way.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Skeptic

Actually, I agree with your claim that this drawing is, if anti-israeli in tone, certainly not "antisemitic", at least not in intention. Quite apart from the fact that the cartoonist in question almost certainly never seen the obscure nazi cartoon his imagery is supposedly "based" on, the nazi cartoon obviously claim that the jews are taking over the entire world, while the British cartoonist merely claims that the israelies are mistreating the Palestinians.


Try explaining it to NES. You'll have to speak up, he likes to put his fingers in his ears and yell "I'M NOT LISTENING!"

BTW- you consistently spell Israel with a lower case "I". You aren't anti-semitic, are you? ;)

[JamesM]

Originally posted by Skeptic

OK, quiz time: Until (almost) three years ago, NOBODY in israel contemplated building such a fence to box the palestinians in. Have the palestinians done something in the meantime which might have made this fense popular? If so, can you guess what it is?


Well, I think, like NTW, you are interpreting my comments to mean that I disapprove of the fence, when they refer only to the fact that if Israel is represented by the Star of David and builds a fence, no-one should be surprised that cartoons appear with both these elements in them.

But if you're genuinely interested in my ignorant opinion: I don't really know what to think about the fence. I see nothing wrong with a country having control of its borders, and a fence was built around the Gaza Strip when it was handed over to the PA under the Oslo agreements, wasn't it? Since the beginning of Intifada 2, I believe nearly all the suicide bombers have come from the West Bank, and only Britain's contribution to the peace process, Asif Mohammed Hanif, came through via Gaza. I don't know if the difference is down to the fence, though.

Also, I thought a study by the Israeli state Comptroller found that many of the suicide bombers got through via existing official checkpoints, anyway, due to sub-standard checking procedures.

The other thing about the fence is that it's a transparent land-grab, which is what I think most people have a problem with: it is notable that the US administration criticism seems to be about the shape of the fence, rather than the act of building it. It snakes out many km beyond the 'green-line' (which is a pretty unofficial border to start with) to take in settlements, and in the process cutting off Palestinian towns from their fields. This is not a recipe for harmony.

[Skeptic]

Well, I think, like NTW, you are interpreting my comments to mean that I disapprove of the fence, when they refer only to the fact that if Israel is represented by the Star of David and builds a fence, no-one should be surprised that cartoons appear with both these elements in them.

Indeed so. I agree, as said above.