Maybe it's time to refocus

[ref]

It seems most of the debunking activity is against Loose Change and it's forum. And rightfully so. The movement is waiting for the movie to be some kind of a saviour. And debunkers are well, waiting to debunk it. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep our eyes open to all the events taking place.

With the recent developments, I actually do not consider the release of the Final Cut being a major event anymore. Not trutherwise nor debunkingwise. They can only repeat the same stuff. We know much of the stuff in it already. Cuban backed out. Any theatrical release is in serious doubt. Alex Jones is now involved in the Final Cut with Griffin, Steven Jones, Kevin Ryan and Charlie Sheen. Come on. Who would give this bunch any credibility.

Most people have seen LC 2nd edition. How many people will take time to watch the Final Cut after that? Some might think they already saw what it's about. Majority of the globe won't even know or care a rat's ass about the LCFC.

I think it's time to stay sharp and not get into comfort zone. What do I consider the biggest possible "threat" right now? That's right. William "Willie" Rodriguez.

All you need to do is take a look at this video on 9/11 blogger and read the comments.

http://www.911blogger.com/node/8679

It's about William speaking a few minutes on some local Fox channel. Look how impressed the host woman is. Look how polite William is. Look how he made sure to sneak in the comment about the explosion before the plane hit, but didn't mention a bomb. That's all about the strategy. Not too outrageous claims. But enough to raise questions. He is very likeable, very credible, a hero, a very good speaker, polite, but makes these explosive statements. That is a very dangerous combination.

He gets a lot of airtime in Latin world. The Movement applauds him every time. They despise us for even questioning his statements. It's like everything he says must be right, no questions. And all we want to do is know the answers to some of his strange claims or even discuss them, because he speaks about these major topics in public all the time. We are not taking away the heroism. But he avoids every major topic with us. Not a way to build credibility.

I'm glad Mark is writing a paper about this. I can't wait to read it. Willie, if you are reading this, this is not a hate post. This is a slightly concerned post. I actually think you have the most or close to most influence on regular folks out there. You have a great responsibility. And honesty is the way. And I think you have not shown honesty all the way, at least not here. These opinions are solely mine. Once again this could be set straight by a simple reply to some concerned posters over here. But we haven't seen any yet.

I think Willie is slowly but surely becoming their main character. The one who the truthers look up to. The one who speaks fluently to the public. The one who really gets listened to. The one who is not questioned because of his hero status. The one who is going to the View. The one who will be in the Final Cut. The one who me must really consider as a big question mark.

[CHF]

The problem with Willy is that if they wanna prove that the towers were brought down via demolition they'll need more than one guy.

Willy was one of many people in the sub-levels but is the only person running around screaming "bombs!" That alone is revealing.

Where are the people injured by this bomb? What do they think injured them?

Plus there's the really obvious problem: the towers collapsed from the top so there's not even a logical reason for a bomb to be down there in the first place.

[ref]

The problem with Willy is that if they wanna prove that the towers were brought down via demolition they'll need more than one guy.

Willy was one of many people in the sub-levels but is the only person running around screaming "bombs!" That alone is revealing.

Where are the people injured by this bomb? What do they think injured them?

Plus there's the really obvious problem: the towers collapsed from the top so there's not even a logical reason for a bomb to be down there in the first place.

You are right. I'm not saying he is right with the facts. But he really impresses people and has an influence. Thus anything he says gets through some way. Most people do not know these facts we do.

[ref]

Truther comments on his performance:

He definitely was credible, and the fact that they mentioned that he was a hero, met the President, etc... was really good.
...
What a charmer. It's obvious he loves the ladies. What are the odds the lovely lady interviewing Willie will be muzzled? She seems genuinely concerned with, and interested in, Willie's story. Something tells me the "powers that be"
will get to her and "suggest" she "forget" this story. Just the same it was nice to see her enthusiasm.
...
And he's OURS! :-) People need to hear his story, and understand it fully the reality of it, and how he turned down the money and the power, all in the pursuit of 9/11 truth and in helping the victims and family members. Total hero, and Americans LOVE their heros..!!!
...
He gets all the time. The Loose Change guys should just kick back and give Willie the floor. Because you can not argue with this mans story and everyone in America should hear it at least once no matter what they will allow themselves to believe.
...
Hes got charm and he speaks fast, he can spit out info at 2:1 rate compared to the average person . He represents 911 Truth in a respectable way.
...
10/10, fantastic job buddy. You've gotten very quick with your presentation, it's very effective.
...
Bringing Truth to the people... to the power... to the world!!! One of the greatest moments in my life was watching William speak. Then shaking his hand. A true hero. We can never thank this man enough. He deserves the Nobel Prize or Peace.



I think everybody gets the picture who is their brightest star and gets their respect nowadays..

[Alt+F4]

Cuban backed out.

Wow, I'm away from the computer for a few days and such changes! Do mean that Mark Cuban and Magnolia Pictures are no longer involved with LC:FC? If so, why did they back out?

Sorry if this has already been discussed on another thread.

[JAStewart]

Doesn't thier brightest star change every now and then? Soon, because willyduck met the prez they'll claim he's disinfo.

[pomeroo]

Willie is no dummy. He's crafted a public persona and he intends to ride it for all it's worth. Notice how carefully he sought to avoid creating the impression that he was reluctant to appear on 'Hardfire.' He pretended to accept my invitation, only to withdraw the acceptance minutes later for a frivolous reason. He wants to grandstand--which is exactly what NIST concluded after he exhausted the patience of that agency. He does not, under any circumstances, want to face inconvenient questions.

[JAStewart]

To what extent is he a denier? IE: Pentagon and stuff?

[8den]

Wow, I'm away from the computer for a few days and such changes! Do mean that Mark Cuban and Magnolia Pictures are no longer involved with LC:FC? If so, why did they back out?

Sorry if this has already been discussed on another thread.

We don't know, Dylan is, as always clutching his cards to his chest but the lack of supporting evidence for Cuban's continued involvment, and the new executive producer, Alex Jones, well drawing to conclusions isn't always helpful, in but an vaccum of evidence, we need to wonder is cuban still involved.

[Brainache]

Wow, I'm away from the computer for a few days and such changes! Do mean that Mark Cuban and Magnolia Pictures are no longer involved with LC:FC? If so, why did they back out?

Sorry if this has already been discussed on another thread.

I've seen this talked about around here, but I never saw where it came from. I thought it was just a rumor. Anyone got links?

[Aggs]

I think that CHF is on the right track. If someone on The View can look Willie in the eye and ask "How did the explosion in the basement cause the top down collapse?", they would see some stammering or deflection.

P.S. That video is from Fox 25 in Boston.

[ref]

I've seen this talked about around here, but I never saw where it came from. I thought it was just a rumor. Anyone got links?

Brainster said Cuban has not been involved in a month or so, and I've got pretty much the same impression on my own..

[ref]

Willie is no dummy. He's crafted a public persona and he intends to ride it for all it's worth. Notice how carefully he sought to avoid creating the impression that he was reluctant to appear on 'Hardfire.' He pretended to accept my invitation, only to withdraw the acceptance minutes later for a frivolous reason. He wants to grandstand--which is exactly what NIST concluded after he exhausted the patience of that agency. He does not, under any circumstances, want to face inconvenient questions.

I more and more start to agree with this. He faces none of the tough stuff. And appears to be well polished in what he does.

[8den]

Look Rodriguez should be approached on two fronts, his changing of his story and the absurdity of his claim (what explosives can detonate in the basement of a building and start a collapse 70 stories up, an hour later.

[ref]

And once again, this is not about how credible his claims are. It's about how his persona is by far the most appealing to general public. Dylan doesn't have the same effect, Alex Jones sure doesn't. But Willie does. Therefore anything he says, no matter how outrageous, should not be taken lightly. The fact that he avoids us and the tough topic is suspicious. The fact that he keeps appealing to everyone with his hero stories and explosion hints is another story.

[MIKILLINI]

Cuban may have been preoccupied with his Dallas Mavericks. Since they were bounced out of the playoffs in the first round, He may have been keeping a somewhat low profile to escape embarrassment. But this is merely speculation on My part.

[Hourglassmemory]

The problem with Willy is that if they wanna prove that the towers were brought down via demolition they'll need more than one guy.

Willy was one of many people in the sub-levels but is the only person running around screaming "bombs!" That alone is revealing.

Where are the people injured by this bomb? What do they think injured them?

Plus there's the really obvious problem: the towers collapsed from the top so there's not even a logical reason for a bomb to be down there in the first place.

I wouldn't add anything to your statement.
Of course they'll need more than one guy.
It's the same thing with the flight 77 witnesses. What's more likely? That one person misinterpreted a plane for a missile, or that many people misinterpreted a missile for an american airlines passenger jet? For the possibility of a missile to be considered, there would have to be more people claiming that such technology flew swiftly over the cars and Zig-Zag'ed by the lamposts.
Willy screamed around "Bombs!" because he probably remmembered the events of '93. Then came along Loose Change, which confused his mind to unnecessairy levels.
I have nothing but respect for Willy and I do admire him in a way. It's just this little thing...

One could speculate, SPECULATE mind you, that if a bomb was at the floor where Willy was, it was there and detonated to kill people like him, in order to avoid claims like these, which would surely rip the conspiracy right open. However this is fallacious and circular.
Then comes along Occam's Razor and slices this SPECULATION to a far more simple solution such as misinterpreted sounds based on pre-9/11 state of mind(post-'93) and elevator explosions and the speed of sound and miscalculations.

[MIKILLINI]

From what i can find, the story of Willies experience is all that there is. No corroboration or evidence has he produced other than what he heard. I tend to believe that if Willie had something tangible for proof, then He shouldn't have any problems sharing it.

[The Doc]

I think Gravy is releasing a paper on Rodriguez soon.

I also have a few sections on him in the 9/11 Mysteries guide.

[Foolmewunz]

IMHO, William is running for office, whether he actually knows it or not. He's set up a persona, and he could ride that to local office in Joisy. Congressman from Eastern/Central NJ wouldn't be out of the question, actually.

Where else can he go with this? His "foundation" is not exactlly gaining a huge following, and speaking gigs for fifty hardcore troofers in Salem are not going to compare to the bully pulpit he could get as a candidate for the Democratic Party.

Remember, this is a guy who wanted to have a career in magic/showbiz. Here's his chance for something even better - a career in the public spotlight, with a chance to actually do something. If he'd just stop pandering to whomever is the latest to give him any attention! (Unfortunately, for a dry period in the last 24/36 months, that was only the troofers, who hung on that "I heard a bomb down there" statement, regardless that it doesn't fit their models.)

The man seeks the limelight. So do many others, so that's not a blanket condemnation. He's just latched onto some strange bedfellows as his only way to that limelight. Now that he's getting a broader audience, he should read some of those comments from the LC hangers-on! They want to hide Bermas and his ranting, frothing, spewing of nonsense, and put William out there as an unassailable front while they peddle their DVDs.

If he wants to take this farther, he's going to have to back away from the bombs and the Troofers and try to get the Latino faction of the Democratic party behind him. There are a lot of cops and firehouse personnel in that particular voting bloc in NJ, and he's not going to be real popular amongst them if he doesn't disassociate himself from the LC boys and their slanderous statements. I lived in Jersey City for a while ('99 to '02) and know some of the Latino community. They are very active, politically, particularly the Puerto Rican bloc, which would be his logical base. But they are also, very patriotic, have served in the armed forces, and as I mentioned, many are cops or firemen.

William, I know you read these threads. No one (at least not this one) is doubting that you believe you heard what you heard. I think Mark's pointed that out, too. But that doesn't mean what you perceived is necessarily correct. In the heat of battle (and that was a battle, I assure you; a battle to save lives!) perceptions and memories get blurred. I do wish you'd step back from these kids now that you have your own channels to the media. The slanderous and disgusting things they accuse people of should be enough to make any thinking man run as far from them as possible.

[gumboot]

One could speculate, SPECULATE mind you, that if a bomb was at the floor where Willy was, it was there and detonated to kill people like him, in order to avoid claims like these, which would surely rip the conspiracy right open. However this is fallacious and circular.


So they planted bombs in the basement with the sole purpose of killing anyone who might later say they heard bombs in the basement?

...

That's just the sort of thing a truther would say...

-Gumboot

[T.A.M.]

Happy May 24th Weekend...don't drink to much for all those who celebrate it.

My opinion on the William Rodriguez angle is this.

Regardless of his attitude, and tendency to lean woo, he was a heroic man, whose acts of heroism will always be front and center in everything he does.

If you do not approach this in a civil, respectable, gentle fashion, the very audience you are trying to reach, trying to convince, will turn on you...in a heart beat. It isnt fair, but that is how it will go.

As I have said before, as hard as it is to do...kid gloves my friends.

TAM:)

[sivazh]

Willie seems to be confused. The troof will do that to a guy. Take a look at what he said before he became famous...

"We heard a loud rumble, then all of a sudden we heard another rumble like someone moving a whole lot of furniture," Rodriguez said. "And then the elevator opened and a man came into our office and all of his skin was off."

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/new.york.terror/

He's describing something very different than a bomb here.

[ref]

Willie seems to be confused. The troof will do that to a guy. Take a look at what he said before he became famous...

"We heard a loud rumble, then all of a sudden we heard another rumble like someone moving a whole lot of furniture," Rodriguez said. "And then the elevator opened and a man came into our office and all of his skin was off."

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/new.york.terror/

He's describing something very different than a bomb here.

This is one of those question marks, yes.

[MikeW]

Willie seems to be confused. The troof will do that to a guy. Take a look at what he said before he became famous...

"We heard a loud rumble, then all of a sudden we heard another rumble like someone moving a whole lot of furniture," Rodriguez said. "And then the elevator opened and a man came into our office and all of his skin was off."

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/new.york.terror/

He's describing something very different than a bomb here.

And a year later he seemed in no doubt about the cause of Felipe David's injuries:

And at that terrible day when I took people out of the office, one of them totally burned because he was standing in front of the freight elevator and the ball of fire came down the duct of the elevator itself, I put him on the ambulance....
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0209/11/se.48.html