Scientology in the UK

[headscratcher4]

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/-Scientology/

I saw this online petition. I loath scientology, but I don't know how I feel about people petitioning the state to essentially deny religous status to a group that self-defines itself as a religion. Seems like a slippery slope...but, by the same token, Scientologists have proven themselves as a dispciable (IMO) bunch...thoughts?

[Dredred]

What I think: Scientology is more like a pyramid scheme than a religion. Their whole organization is based on making money. The reason they want to be recognized as a religion is that it makes it easier for them to attract new victims (in order to make more profit) and be exempt from paying taxes.

So I think the petition is a good thing and I would sign it were I a British citizen.

[headscratcher4]

Good point...but can't that be said for every religion?

[Dredred]

I must admit I know very little about religion. Do you have to pay to join a church? If so, maybe you're right..

[headscratcher4]

Not being religious...I don't know. I know all reglions solicit funding to survive, provide livings to leadership, etc.

[andyandy]

I saw this online petition. I loath scientology, but I don't know how I feel about people petitioning the state to essentially deny religous status to a group that self-defines itself as a religion. Seems like a slippery slope...but, by the same token, Scientologists have proven themselves as a dispciable (IMO) bunch...thoughts?

i don't see a problem with it not being classified as a religion - there has to be a cut off point somewhere, and running your "religion" as a money making business satisfies my arbitrary line....

[rymdman]

The pyramid scheme with high course fees to gain the secrete "holy knowledge" wich you are not allowed to take part of before entering and signing the "one billion year" contracts, trying to keep the members disconnected from non-members, the struggle to get out once you've realised it wasn't for you at all, the hiring of PI's, slandering people, extreme hostility to critical voices. Sure, that might be criterias shared by other religions, or more like other cults or sects. But they also share alot of criterias for organised crimes, etc.

Most other religions, despite how obnoxious some followers can be, at least has no entry fees, or demanding you to participate in auditing sessions with an e-meter, and certainly does not keep their most sacred texts/knowledge hidden. You can buy the Torah, Quaran or New Testament in pretty much every bookstore, or just read them online. The same goes for other religions as well.

Even to convert to another religion is very easy. Without course fees, audting, e-meter (security) tests, and so on. And if you want ot leave, you just notify your lack of faith and leave. No hazzle.

[Orangutan]

Errm, The deadline to sign ended 3 days ago!
Edit.
Errm, If you live 1 year in the future like I do.

[Fizzer]

Not being religious...I don't know. I know all reglions solicit funding to survive, provide livings to leadership, etc.

Not all churches have a paid clergy or cover any of the expenses for the leadership.

[Mashuna]

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/-Scientology/

I saw this online petition. I loath scientology, but I don't know how I feel about people petitioning the state to essentially deny religous status to a group that self-defines itself as a religion. Seems like a slippery slope...but, by the same token, Scientologists have proven themselves as a dispciable (IMO) bunch...thoughts?

I'm happy to sign up. I understand that there are certain benefits for obtaining religious status (such as tax benefits), so self-defining isn't sufficient reason to be given religious status. As there wasn't a petition to remove all benefits from religious institutions, this one will have to do ;) .

[MWare]

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/-Scientology/Seems like a slippery slope...

If the slippery slope leads to a place where NO religions are given any kind of special privileges or exemptions (specifically tax), I personally would be happy to take that ride. I don't think that slope leads to banning religions from free speech or burning religious people at the stake.

[Moochie]

What I think: Scientology is more like a pyramid scheme than a religion. Their whole organization is based on making money. The reason they want to be recognized as a religion is that it makes it easier for them to attract new victims (in order to make more profit) and be exempt from paying taxes.

So I think the petition is a good thing and I would sign it were I a British citizen.

Ditto the above.

M.

[Soapy Sam]

Scientology is no more a religion than JREF.
Petition signed.

[andyandy]

signed!

ooh, the empowerment of democracy :)

[Paul]

I definitely didn't sign, oh no.

So, if you see someone that looks like me, it isn't, OK?

And all those short men in sunglasses that have started following you?

They're just going to a Tom Cruise lookalike contest.

Hail Xenu and pass the tissues, I think I've got a cold coming on.

[triadboy]

What I think: Scientology is more like a pyramid scheme than a religion. Their whole organization is based on making money. The reason they want to be recognized as a religion is that it makes it easier for them to attract new victims (in order to make more profit) and be exempt from paying taxes.


I thought this too. There is no way people are going to believe in a wild creation story made up by a 1950's science fiction writer as 'truth'. The biggest oath they probably have to make is - It is forbidden to wink and admit it's all made up for tax purposes.

Are there any ex-scientologists who can comment on this?

[Big Les]

As an aside, there's an interesting article here (http://news.scotsman.com/opinion.cfm?id=782292007), highlighting the Edinburgh recruiting centre.

[strathmeyer]

I knew the British were years behind the Germans.

[catbasket]

As an aside, there's an interesting article here (http://news.scotsman.com/opinion.cfm?id=782292007), highlighting the Edinburgh recruiting centre.
Big Les, my new hero!
In the late 1940s Reader's Digest quoted Hubbard, then a sci-fi author, as saying: "If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion."
I vaguely remembered reading a quote like that back in the 1970s, couldn't track it down, and was beginning to think I'd imagined it. Though I believe I came across the quote in a book by (possibly) Robert Heinlein or Isaac Asimov rather than the Readers' Digest.

[MelBrooksfan]

There is certainly precedent for it. Isn't Tom Cruise banned from Paris for much the same reason?

[rymdman]

I read a german interview done with both Tom Cruise and Steven Spielberg at the same time, before the premiere of 'War of the Worlds'. An interview with alot of tensions since in Germany CoS is not the Church of Scientology, but the Cult of Scientology. And bearing in mind scientologists reactions to someone even thinking to call them a cult, and their view concerning the holocaust (psychiatry was behind it!) and Spielberg, jewish, director of 'Schindler's List' and founder of the Shoah Foundation (non-profit organization that archives filmed testimony of the Holocaust survivors).

[Big Les]

Big Les, my new hero!

I vaguely remembered reading a quote like that back in the 1970s, couldn't track it down, and was beginning to think I'd imagined it. Though I believe I came across the quote in a book by (possibly) Robert Heinlein or Isaac Asimov rather than the Readers' Digest.

:blush: If you liked that, you'll love this. (http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/scientology/start.a.religion.html)

[Liszt]

do you know the office in London (Tottenham court road I think)?

I went in there a while back intent on having a row with them. They were really polite, and I ended up buying one of their books (it is rubbish by the way. I keep it in my toilet.)

Scientology gets a lot of stick, and probably deserves most of it. but what about the Kabbala? Just as weird, celebrity sponsored, but no critisicm at all (unless I missed it).

[grayman]

I thought this too. There is no way people are going to believe in a wild creation story made up by a 1950's science fiction writer as 'truth'. The biggest oath they probably have to make is - It is forbidden to wink and admit it's all made up for tax purposes.

Are there any ex-scientologists who can comment on this?

Here's a site (http://www.xenu.net/) that you may find useful.

[Liszt]

Here's a site (http://www.xenu.net/) that you may find useful.

what a fantasic website!

But the question remains - do they actually believe it?

[Rrose Selavy]

Here's a very interesting article detailing some of $cientology's assets/turnover etc in the UK - at least what is documented.

However, when all is added together, The Times calculates that the value of the pro-Hubbard empire in Britain today is £57 million, with an annual turnover and income of £17 million. Not bad for an organisation that had only 1,781 adherents in England and Wales in the last census. How did this happen?



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article1975105.ece