Looking for a Few Good Men

[Mephisto]

What is wrong with this picture? A woman, sent to Iraq to fight leaves her boyfriend at home to care for her kids, and . . .

Police: Boy beaten to death while mother serves in Iraq

POSTED: 1:14 p.m. EDT, May 26, 2007

CALUMET CITY, Illinois (AP) -- A man beat his girlfriend's 4-year-old son to death after she left the boy in his care while she was deployed to Iraq, police said.

Donnell Parker, 23, was charged Friday with first-degree murder in the death of Cameron Smith. The boy was found dead in his bed Thursday in a suburb south of Chicago.

Parker told police he beat the boy, but would not say why, said Calumet City police Chief Patrick O'Meara. It was not immediately known if Parker had an attorney.

Cameron was punched in the head, stomach and chest, and whipped with a belt from Tuesday to Wednesday evening, O'Meara said. An autopsy found he died of blunt-force trauma to the abdomen and head, O'Meara said.

The boy's 7-year-old sister and 8-year-old brother had also been in Parker's care, O'Meara said. They were put in the custody of their maternal grandparents after Cameron was found dead.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/05/26/beating.death.ap/index.html

[MelBrooksfan]

Cameron was punched in the head, stomach and chest, and whipped with a belt from Tuesday to Wednesday evening, O'Meara said.

Continuously?!

[Mephisto]

Continuously?!

Apparently continuously enough to cause his death.

[Pardalis]

Surely this doesn't have anything to do with Iraq, right Mephisto?

Please say yes.

[Mephisto]

Surely this doesn't have anything to do with Iraq, right Mephisto?

Please say yes.

It doesn't have anything to do with Iraq other than the mother made a horrible choice of a surrogate father to care for her children while she was in Iraq.

My point was, it's sad that this woman isn't at home taking care of her children while her murderous boyfriend is in Iraq.

[Pardalis]

It doesn't have anything to do with Iraq other than the mother made a horrible choice of a surrogate father to care for her children while she was in Iraq.

My point was, it's sad that this woman isn't at home taking care of her children while her murderous boyfriend is in Iraq.

I thought you were a liberal?

Don't you think that women are as capable of being the financial supporter for their family as men? Do you have some problem with men staying at home to take care of the kids? Do you think the service women in Iraq should return home to take care of their kids and we should send the fathers instead?

This has nothing to do with the war in Iraq.

[Mephisto]

I thought you were a liberal?

Don't you think that women are as capable of being the financial supporter for their family as men? Do you have some problem with men staying at home to take care of the kids? Do you think the service women in Iraq should return home to take care of their kids and we should send the fathers instead?

This has nothing to do with the war in Iraq.

I'm so liberal I've gone full circle. I believe that some women are better warriors than some men, but I was thinking more along the lines that the mother would have taken better care of her children than this bastard.

My assertion that HE should be the one fighting in Iraq has more do to with the chance that HE could be killed while leaving the mother at home to take better care of her children than he apparently could.

Frankly, I don't understand why they'd want to, but I believe in a woman's right to choose soldiering or combat if she's suited. I just lament the fact that so many women will be suffering PTSD and the associated ills.

[Pardalis]

I'm so liberal I've gone full circle. I believe that some women are better warriors than some men, but I was thinking more along the lines that the mother would have taken better care of her children than this bastard.

Yes he's a bastard, and yes she made a huge mistake by letting him be the carer of her child. But what does this have to do with the war in Iraq?

My assertion that HE should be the one fighting in Iraq has more do to with the chance that HE could be killed while leaving the mother at home to take better care of her children than he apparently could.

Why? Do you think all murderers and bastards should be sent to Iraq?

Is this what you think of your servicemen?

Frankly, I don't understand why they'd want to, but I believe in a woman's right to choose soldiering or combat if she's suited. I just lament the fact that so many women will be suffering PTSD and the associated ills.

That's her choice.

And what does this have to do with the war in Iraq again (besides the obvious chip on your shoulder)?

[Pardalis]

What if this female soldier had been serving in Afghanistan, or a more legitimate war to your liking? Would you be saying the same thing?

[Wolfman]

I'm so liberal I've gone full circle. I believe that some women are better warriors than some men, but I was thinking more along the lines that the mother would have taken better care of her children than this bastard.

My assertion that HE should be the one fighting in Iraq has more do to with the chance that HE could be killed while leaving the mother at home to take better care of her children than he apparently could.

Frankly, I don't understand why they'd want to, but I believe in a woman's right to choose soldiering or combat if she's suited. I just lament the fact that so many women will be suffering PTSD and the associated ills.
Hmmm...just to be a Devil's Advocate here...

...if this story stated that a husband had been deployed to Iraq, and his girlfriend/wife had beaten and killed their child, what are the odds that you would have written a post here advocating that the woman should have been sent to Iraq, and the husband should have stayed at home? :D

[kerikiwi]

My assertion that HE should be the one fighting in Iraq has more do to with the chance that HE could be killed while leaving the mother at home to take better care of her children than he apparently could.

Frankly, I don't understand why they'd want to, but I believe in a woman's right to choose soldiering or combat if she's suited. I just lament the fact that so many women will be suffering PTSD and the associated ills.

He is hardly a suitable person to be inflicted on the Iraqi people. If he can beat a child to death over a protracted time, he would have no hesitation in killing at random in a war situation.
This case has nothing to do with the rights or wrongs of the war in Iraq, but everything to do with the rights of children.

Why would you have trouble understanding why a woman would choose soldiering or lament her suffering various ills as a result, any more than feeling the same about men?

[Azure]

Hmmm...just to be a Devil's Advocate here...

...if this story stated that a husband had been deployed to Iraq, and his girlfriend/wife had beaten and killed their child, what are the odds that you would have written a post here advocating that the woman should have been sent to Iraq, and the husband should have stayed at home? :D

Don't confuse him.

[Tricky]

Hmmm...just to be a Devil's Advocate here...

...if this story stated that a husband had been deployed to Iraq, and his girlfriend/wife had beaten and killed their child, what are the odds that you would have written a post here advocating that the woman should have been sent to Iraq, and the husband should have stayed at home? :D
I think it would have been the same, at least I would have written it the same.

But whether because of society or genetics, whenever you hear about someone brutally murdering a child, it is almost always a man. Yeah, you get people like Andrea Yates who drowned her children, but she didn't beat them to death.

Though a self-professed liberal, I'm feel that overall, men make better soldiers and women make better parents. But you have to allow room for the exceptions.

[Pardalis]

What if this woman wasn't in the military? What if she worked for a company that required her to travel for most of the year outside the country? Let's say she still makes the wrong decision to let her child be in the care of this madman.

What does this have to do with Iraq?

[Lonewulf]

What if this woman wasn't in the military? What if she worked for a company that required her to travel for most of the year outside the country? Let's say she still makes the wrong decision to let her child be in the care of this madman.

What does this have to do with Iraq?

Absolutely nothing.

I feel sorry for her. Her child has been killed, and her husband did it. That's just... wow. I can only imagine how messed up her life is now. :(

I'd say that if it was a man that went to Iraq, and his wife killed their children as well.

[Daylight]

What does this have to do with Iraq?

If Bush had not lied about Iraq she wouldn’t be in Iraq. She would have been home with her son and she would have been killed too. So Bush saved her life. She should be grateful. Stupid liberals just can't see this :D

[shemp]

I really don't care if this has anything to do with Iraq or not. I blame Bush. F Bush.

[Mephisto]

Yes he's a bastard, and yes she made a huge mistake by letting him be the carer of her child. But what does this have to do with the war in Iraq?


It's where she is instead of at home with her children.

Do you think all murderers and bastards should be sent to Iraq?

Is this what you think of your servicemen?


Of course, and they could be led by Lee Marvin into a suicide mission from which there would be no likely return - it would make a GREAT movie.



That's her choice.


And you're quite positive that her "choice" didn't have anything to do with the necessity to feed and clothe her family, or to have affordable health care? You're probably right, what mother wouldn't choose fighting in Iraq over taking care of her children safely at home?



And what does this have to do with the war in Iraq again (besides the obvious chip on your shoulder)?


Again, it's where she is instead of where she would undoubtedly rather be.

[Mephisto]

What if this female soldier had been serving in Afghanistan, or a more legitimate war to your liking? Would you be saying the same thing?

If she, along with the rest of our troops in Iraq, were in Afghanistan the odds for success would have been much better, we would likely have already captured or killed Osama Bin Laden (remember him?), and she and the rest of the troops wouldn't be serving tour after tour after tour to play referee in a civil war we caused.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

"Donnell" sounds like a black name. I wouldn't be surprised if this man was African American which he probably is. Why is it that whenever we hear of these sorts of violent crimes in the news the perpetrators seem to mostly be African American? Remember the guy beating the 90 year old man up for his car? Or the guy beating the 100 something year old woman up to rob her? I doubt it's news bias because African Americans have the highest incarceration rate in this country. Can we still blame society on this? What's the problem here?

[Mephisto]

Hmmm...just to be a Devil's Advocate here...

...if this story stated that a husband had been deployed to Iraq, and his girlfriend/wife had beaten and killed their child, what are the odds that you would have written a post here advocating that the woman should have been sent to Iraq, and the husband should have stayed at home? :D

You're right the odds would have been somewhat skewed in that instance, but the odds that a man would leave his children in the hands of a girlfriend while fighting in Iraq are far less likely. The odds that a man could even find a girlfriend to take care of his children in that instance are also less likely.

I'm sure there is data that would support my indirect assertion that men leave their families more often than do women.

[Darth Rotor]

"Donnell" sounds like a black name. I wouldn't be surprised if this man was African American which he probably is. Why is it that whenever we hear of these sorts of violent crimes in the news the perpetrators seem to mostly be African American? Remember the guy beating the 90 year old man up for his car? Or the guy beating the 100 something year old woman up to rob her? I doubt it's news bias because African Americans have the highest incarceration rate in this country. Can we still blame society on this? What's the problem here?
Dustin, if you are going to play the race card, I'd suggest you find out if the guy was in fact of the race that you suspect, rather than go from a guess of race, based on a name, into a comment on how blacks are (or seem to be based on news reports) the perps in these sorts of crimes.

At least start from a position of fact, before you wander off into speculation. What value this branch of thought you chose to raise adds to this thread is a mystery to me.

Care to explain?

DR

[Mephisto]

Why would you have trouble understanding why a woman would choose soldiering or lament her suffering various ills as a result, any more than feeling the same about men?

I'm not having trouble understanding that, I'm having trouble understanding how the political party of "family values" would make it necessary for this woman to leave her children in the care of her boyfriend.

[Darth Rotor]

You're right the odds would have been somewhat skewed in that instance, but the odds that a man would leave his children in the hands of a girlfriend while fighting in Iraq are far less likely. The odds that a man could even find a girlfriend to take care of his children in that instance are also less likely.

I'm sure there is data that would support my indirect assertion that men leave their families more often than do women.
Why do you hate men? :cool:

DR

[Mephisto]

Don't confuse him.

And speaking of confused:

And I love how the anti-war pundits feel like the US military is responsible for Iraq becoming stable


The Iraqi people have to decide what they want. Stability? Or a Civil War? More and more it seems like the latter...so why not get the hell out of there.


Stability in Iraq is in the Iraqi peoples hands...not the Bush administration.

[Mephisto]

If Bush had not lied about Iraq she wouldn’t be in Iraq. She would have been home with her son and she would have been killed too. So Bush saved her life. She should be grateful. Stupid liberals just can't see this :D



:) We should "get with the program." They told us a long time ago that they were "compassionate conservatives." ;)

[Mephisto]

Why do you hate men? :cool:

DR

:)

[Mephisto]

"Donnell" sounds like a black name.

Did you collect the June dues for your Klan Klub yet?

[Pardalis]

It's where she is instead of at home with her children.

You sound like a conservative. Women can do whatever they want. If she chooses to be a soldier that's her choice.

Of course, and they could be led by Lee Marvin into a suicide mission from which there would be no likely return - it would make a GREAT movie.

?

And you're quite positive that her "choice" didn't have anything to do with the necessity to feed and clothe her family, or to have affordable health care? You're probably right, what mother wouldn't choose fighting in Iraq over taking care of her children safely at home?

Ridiculous. Military life was her choice, do you have a problem with women in the military?

Again, it's where she is instead of where she would undoubtedly rather be.

Do you have a problem with women working?

If she, along with the rest of our troops in Iraq, were in Afghanistan the odds for success would have been much better

That's not the point of my question and you know it. Even if the war in Afghanistan only lasted a few months, this situation where she left her kid in the hands of her crazy boyfriend (remember the topic of this thread?) would have happened anyways. It would have happened anyways if she wasn't a military person and worked abroad for other reasons.

You're an intelligent bloke but if you can't see your own nonsense in this thread I would start to worry.

"Donnell" sounds like a black name.

Rosie O'Donnell is not black.

[Tailgater]

"Donnell" sounds like a black name. I wouldn't be surprised if this man was African American which he probably is. Why is it that whenever we hear of these sorts of violent crimes in the news the perpetrators seem to mostly be African American? Remember the guy beating the 90 year old man up for his car? Or the guy beating the 100 something year old woman up to rob her? I doubt it's news bias because African Americans have the highest incarceration rate in this country. Can we still blame society on this? What's the problem here?

LOL. Ok. Nappy-headed is not associated with blacks, but "Donnel" and violent crimes are. You are a real gem.

[Lonewulf]

"Donnell" sounds like a black name. I wouldn't be surprised if this man was African American which he probably is. Why is it that whenever we hear of these sorts of violent crimes in the news the perpetrators seem to mostly be African American? Remember the guy beating the 90 year old man up for his car? Or the guy beating the 100 something year old woman up to rob her? I doubt it's news bias because African Americans have the highest incarceration rate in this country. Can we still blame society on this? What's the problem here?

Uh, yeah, okay.

Can I say that Dustin is officially a bigot yet?

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Dustin, if you are going to play the race card, I'd suggest you find out if the guy was in fact of the race that you suspect, rather than go from a guess of race, based on a name, into a comment on how blacks are (or seem to be based on news reports) the perps in these sorts of crimes.

At least start from a position of fact, before you wander off into speculation. What value this branch of thought you chose to raise adds to this thread is a mystery to me.

Care to explain?

DR

I was just assuming. Maybe my assumption is wrong. Maybe it isn't. I figured though that this thread won't be very interesting unless we delve into some other possible aspects of the case.

Did you collect the June dues for your Klan Klub yet?


I'm a racist because I speculate on the ethnicity of a name? :rolleyes:


Rosie O'Donnell is not black.

Generally when it's a surname it isn't. I don't know of any statistics on that, though most people with the name "Donnell" are African American in my experience. Donell Jones, Donell Nixon, Donell Chresfield.

LOL. Ok. Nappy-headed is not associated with blacks, but "Donnel" and violent crimes are. You are a real gem.

Is contorting what people say ever actually helpful? :confused:

[Taffer]

Just so I'm clear, Mephisto, are you saying that she should have stayed at home because she was a woman, or that she should have stayed at home because then her child wouldn't have been murdered?

[Taffer]

"Donnell" sounds like a black name. I wouldn't be surprised if this man was African American which he probably is. Why is it that whenever we hear of these sorts of violent crimes in the news the perpetrators seem to mostly be African American? Remember the guy beating the 90 year old man up for his car? Or the guy beating the 100 something year old woman up to rob her? I doubt it's news bias because African Americans have the highest incarceration rate in this country. Can we still blame society on this? What's the problem here?

:rolleyes:

[Lonewulf]

I'm a racist because I speculate on the ethnicity of a name?

Yes.

"Donnell... that sounds like a black name! It must be a black person that killed his child! Blacks, they're all violent and stuff... can't be society's fault! It's all dem blacks!"

A paraphrasing of what you said, with no content edited.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Uh, yeah, okay.

Can I say that Dustin is officially a bigot yet?


That's the problem with people like yourself. You dislike a person and then you attempt to label them something by contorting or totally ignoring what they say. You dislike me because I criticized your "rape fantasies" in a past thread and since then you've had it out for me. You see me pointing out a fact of our society, that blacks have a high incarceration rate in the united states and you contort what I say (or totally ignore it) and label me a "bigot"?


Let ME ask this question...



Can I say that "Lonewulf" is a narrow minded childish simpleton yet?




I'll go out on a limb and say YES!

[Lonewulf]

That's the problem with people like yourself. You dislike a person and then you attempt to label them something by contorting or totally ignoring what they say.

Bubba, I haven't ignored anything. You've already demonstrated your bigotry.

You dislike me because I criticized your "rape fantasies" in a past thread and since then you've had it out for me.

Actually, it has do with your posting in general. Just like everyone else on this forum doesn't like you.

You see me pointing out a fact of our society, that blacks have a high incarceration rate in the united states and you contort what I say (or totally ignore it) and label me a "bigot"?

Donnell... must be a black! I mean, only makes sense (in your world). Oh, those damn blacks, they're raping our women! I mean, killing their children!

Can I say that "Lonewulf" is a narrow minded childish simpleton yet?

I'll go out on a limb and say YES!

Sure, go ahead. :)

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Yes.

"Donnell... that sounds like a black name!

Donnell does sound like an African American name to me. This is bigoted? Hmm.

Blacks, they're all violent and stuff...

Quote me where I said that.

can't be society's fault! It's all dem blacks!"

I guess Bill Cosby is racist as well. He agrees that the high incarceration rate of African Americans in the U.S. can't be blamed on society anymore but on individuals as well as culture.

A paraphrasing of what you said, with no content edited.

Paraphrasing? I never knew that "Paraphrasing" meant saying something totally different from what was said or implied. Hmm. I guess I need a new dictionary.

[Tailgater]

Is contorting what people say ever actually helpful? :confused:

Is stereotyping? Pointing out hypocrisy? What part feels contorted?

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Bubba, I haven't ignored anything. You've already demonstrated your bigotry.

And you've demonstrated your simple minded ignorance.


Actually, it has do with your posting in general. Just like everyone else on this forum doesn't like you.

Is that why prior to your "I fantasize about raping people" thread you rarely if ever attacked me?

Donnell... must be a black! I mean, only makes sense (in your world). Oh, those damn blacks, they're raping our women! I mean, killing their children!

I always knew your perception of reality was distorted but this takes the cake. Do you really see my post as saying "Oh, those damn blacks, they're raping our women! I mean, killing their children!"?



Sure, go ahead. :)


"Lonewulf" is a narrow minded childish simpleton.

[Mephisto]

Just so I'm clear, Mephisto, are you saying that she should have stayed at home because she was a woman, or that she should have stayed at home because then her child wouldn't have been murdered?

And just to be clear, I'm going to reiterate.

I believe that some women are better warriors than some men, but I was thinking more along the lines that the mother would have taken better care of her children than this bastard.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Is stereotyping? Pointing out hypocrisy? What part feels contorted?


Is pointing out that the name "Donnell" is probably primarily an African name stereotyping? Really? If it is then is pointing out that "Heinrich" is primarily a German name stereotyping?

What part feels contorted? How about the assertion that I implied that 'violent crimes are associated with blacks'? I never implied such a thing.

[Lonewulf]

I guess Bill Cosby is racist as well. He agrees that the high incarceration rate of African Americans in the U.S. can't be blamed on society anymore but on individuals as well as culture.

Bill Cosby has class. He also doesn't leap to conclusions.

[B]Paraphrasing? I never knew that "Paraphrasing" meant saying something totally different from what was said or implied. Hmm. I guess I need a new dictionary.

Uh huh, sure. Let me quote you again.

"Donnell" sounds like a black name. I wouldn't be surprised if this man was African American which he probably is. Why is it that whenever we hear of these sorts of violent crimes in the news the perpetrators seem to mostly be African American? Remember the guy beating the 90 year old man up for his car? Or the guy beating the 100 something year old woman up to rob her? I doubt it's news bias because African Americans have the highest incarceration rate in this country. Can we still blame society on this? What's the problem here?

Okay, so let's compare the two, shall we! I paraphrased as such:

"Donnell... that sounds like a black name! It must be a black person that killed his child! Blacks, they're all violent and stuff... can't be society's fault! It's all dem blacks!"

So you said: ""Donnell" sounds like a black name. I wouldn't be surprised if this man was African American which he probably is."

I said: "Donnell... that sounds like a black name!"

Any content modified? No? Oh well! Strike one.

Then you said: "Why is it that whenever we hear of these sorts of violent crimes in the news the perpetrators seem to mostly be African American? Remember the guy beating the 90 year old man up for his car? Or the guy beating the 100 something year old woman up to rob her? I doubt it's news bias because African Americans have the highest incarceration rate in this country."

Paraphrased by: "It must be a black person that killed his child! Blacks, they're all violent and stuff..."

I edited out the anecdotal examples, and otherwise came out with the same meaning.

Then you said: " Can we still blame society on this? What's the problem here?"

Yeap, that's paraphrased by:

"can't be society's fault! It's all dem blacks!"

Or are you saying that that wasn't your suggestion?

What did I modify the meaning of, Dustin? C'mon, explain.

[Taffer]

That's the problem with people like yourself. You dislike a person and then you attempt to label them something by contorting or totally ignoring what they say. You dislike me because I criticized your "rape fantasies" in a past thread and since then you've had it out for me. You see me pointing out a fact of our society, that blacks have a high incarceration rate in the united states and you contort what I say (or totally ignore it) and label me a "bigot"?

Actually, Dustin, it was me who called you a bigot in that thread. And not because you criticized "my rape fantasies", since I never admitted to having any. I called you a bigot because you were.


Let ME ask this question...

Can I say that "Lonewulf" is a narrow minded childish simpleton yet?

I'll go out on a limb and say YES!

Lonewulf is as far from a "narrow minded childish simpleton" I have seen. He is a much better person then you, from what evidence has been shown to me on these forums.

[Lonewulf]

And you've demonstrated your simple minded ignorance.

You make me feel sad. :(

Is that why prior to your "I fantasize about raping people" thread you rarely if ever attacked me?

I hardly even knew you before then.

I always knew your perception of reality was distorted but this takes the cake. Do you really see my post as saying "Oh, those damn blacks, they're raping our women! I mean, killing their children!"?

You're claiming that blacks have a high crime rate, and then immediately leapt to the conclusion that the person in question must have been black. The "raping our women" bit was a bit of satire, glad you didn't catch it.

"Lonewulf" is a narrow minded childish simpleton.

This is now my sig. :)

[Darth Rotor]

I was thinking more along the lines that the mother would have taken better care of her children than this bastard.
Not if she was in the stockade for AWOL or desertion.

Deployed single parents have to have (this was a Clinton era initiative) formally designated guardians for their dependents in the case of mobilization/deployment. (This helps get the kid DoD sponsored child and medical care, for example, legally.) It's a DoD rule, been on the books for a while.

This lady made the simple error of trusting a dipstick. She won't be the first, nor last, to do that.

DR

[Taffer]

Paraphrasing? I never knew that "Paraphrasing" meant saying something totally different from what was said or implied. Hmm. I guess I need a new dictionary.

No, he pretty much got it right, I'm afraid. By all means, put your fingers in your ears and continue to sing "LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

[Mephisto]

Donnell... must be a black! I mean, only makes sense (in your world).

I wonder if Dustin could determine the ethnicity of someone named Cameron, or Parker?

[Tailgater]

Is pointing out that the name "Donnell" is probably primarily an African name stereotyping? Really? If it is then is pointing out that "Heinrich" is primarily a German name stereotyping?

What part feels contorted? How about the assertion that I implied that 'violent crimes are associated with blacks'? I never implied such a thing.

Donnell" sounds like a black name. I wouldn't be surprised if this man was African American which he probably is. Why is it that whenever we hear of these sorts of violent crimes in the news the perpetrators seem to mostly be African American? Remember the guy beating the 90 year old man up for his car? Or the guy beating the 100 something year old woman up to rob her? I doubt it's news bias because African Americans have the highest incarceration rate in this country. Can we still blame society on this? What's the problem here?

Are you posting high?

[Taffer]

And just to be clear, I'm going to reiterate.

Yeah, I read that. I'm just confused by your meaning, is all. Do you mean "she would be a better parent then a guy" or "she would be a better parent then that guy"?

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Bill Cosby has class. He also doesn't leap to conclusions.

Cosby agrees with me.

I've made no conclusions. I've made assumptions and then stated facts. The first assumption was that this individual was African American. The facts were that the incarceration rate of African Americans is very high in the U.S. and whenever we hear about violent crimes the perpetrators tend to be African American. No conclusions here.



Uh huh, sure. Let me quote you again.

Lets...



Okay, so let's compare the two, shall we! I paraphrased as such:

"Donnell... that sounds like a black name! It must be a black person that killed his child! Blacks, they're all violent and stuff... can't be society's fault! It's all dem blacks!"

So you said: ""Donnell" sounds like a black name. I wouldn't be surprised if this man was African American which he probably is."

Indeed. Totally different statements. My saying that I would not be surprised of this man was African American based on his name is NOT the same as saying "Blacks, they're all violent and stuff... can't be society's fault! It's all dem blacks!"


I said: "Donnell... that sounds like a black name!"

Any content modified? No? Oh well! Strike one.

Strike one.


Then you said: "Why is it that whenever we hear of these sorts of violent crimes in the news the perpetrators seem to mostly be African American? Remember the guy beating the 90 year old man up for his car? Or the guy beating the 100 something year old woman up to rob her? I doubt it's news bias because African Americans have the highest incarceration rate in this country."

Paraphrased by: "It must be a black person that killed his child! Blacks, they're all violent and stuff..."

I edited out the anecdotal examples, and otherwise came out with the same meaning.

Where in my statement did you get the implication that "Blacks, they're all violent and stuff..."? I'm very interested because I might need reading glasses.

Then you said: " Can we still blame society on this? What's the problem here?"

Yeap, that's paraphrased by:

"can't be society's fault! It's all dem blacks!"

Which is totally misrepresenting what I said. How does "We can't blame society" equal "It's all dem blacks!"?

Or are you saying that that wasn't your suggestion?

What did I modify the meaning of, Dustin? C'mon, explain.

See above.

[Lonewulf]

If her name was "Latisha" or somesuch, I could see the assumption. But "Donnell"? Weird.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Actually, Dustin, it was me who called you a bigot in that thread. And not because you criticized "my rape fantasies", since I never admitted to having any. I called you a bigot because you were.




Lonewulf is as far from a "narrow minded childish simpleton" I have seen. He is a much better person then you, from what evidence has been shown to me on these forums.

You mis-read. Lonewulf asked if he could label me a "Bigot" in this thread. I don't know if he called me a bigot in his "I fantasize about raping people" thread but he probably did.

[Mephisto]

This lady made the simple error of trusting a dipstick.
DR

You're absolutely right - and THAT was the point of the whole thread (the title is a dead giveaway). :)

[Lonewulf]

Cosby agrees with me.

Somehow I feel that Cosby has a more complex point than you do.

I've made no conclusions. I've made assumptions and then stated facts. The first assumption was that this individual was African American. The facts were that the incarceration rate of African Americans is very high in the U.S. and whenever we hear about violent crimes the perpetrators tend to be African American. No conclusions here.

Okay. And I care... how? Yes, you made assumptions. You leapt to some weird conclusions, boyo.

Indeed. Totally different statements. My saying that I would not be surprised of this man was African American based on his name is NOT the same as saying "Blacks, they're all violent and stuff... can't be society's fault! It's all dem blacks!"

Haha, if you say so.

Denial, it's not just a river in Egypt.

Strike one.

Indeed! That's what I said.

Where in my statement did you get the implication that "Blacks, they're all violent and stuff..."? I'm very interested because I might need reading glasses.

So, what, your anecdotal examples were to show that African Americans ran around giving people flowers? Oh, you are a trip, you are.

Which is totally misrepresenting what I said. How does "We can't blame society" equal "It's all dem blacks!"?

You're right, it must be the Cubans.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

You make me feel sad. :(

Oh well.



I hardly even knew you before then.

I know.



You're claiming that blacks have a high crime rate, and then immediately leapt to the conclusion that the person in question must have been black. The "raping our women" bit was a bit of satire, glad you didn't catch it.

Quote me on where I said this man "Must have been black". Go ahead, I'll wait. Or better yet, Please explain where I linked his being black to the high incarceration rate of African Americans. I assumed he was black based on his first name. That's it. It was an assumption and I could of been wrong. Though I probably wasn't.



This is now my sig. :)

Fantastic.

[Mephisto]

Yeah, I read that. I'm just confused by your meaning, is all. Do you mean "she would be a better parent then a guy" or "she would be a better parent then that guy"?

No, the guy who killed her kid wasn't even his father - and I'm asserting that she would have made a better parent than THAT particular guy (of course most guys would have). :)

[Dustin Kesselberg]

I wonder if Dustin could determine the ethnicity of someone named Cameron, or Parker?


No. I doubt I could. Some names are generally used among specific cultures and others aren't. From my experience the first name "Donnell" is used a lot among African Americans. Though some Caucasians probably have it as a first name.

[Pardalis]

You're absolutely right - and THAT was the point of the whole thread (the title is a dead giveaway). :)

No it is not. The title of this thread is a dead giveaway of your real intention, to somehow pin this domestic story on the war in Iraq. You are being intellectually dishonest.

[Mephisto]

I assumed he was black based on his first name. That's it. It was an assumption and I could of been wrong. Though I probably wasn't.

I know a man whose name is Leroy and plays brass in a jazz band - care to guess his ethnicity?

[Taffer]

You mis-read. Lonewulf asked if he could label me a "Bigot" in this thread. I don't know if he called me a bigot in his "I fantasize about raping people" thread but he probably did.

Well, you may be right at that. But you were accusing Lonewulf of disliking you because of that thread, when I was the one that called you a bigot. That was my real point.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Are you posting high?


No. Are you?

I asked How about the assertion that I implied that 'violent crimes are associated with blacks'? I never implied such a thing.

You quote as an example:

Why is it that whenever we hear of these sorts of violent crimes in the news the perpetrators seem to mostly be African American?

I fail to see the link. How is pointing out that many violent crimes portrayed in the media seem to be perpetuated by blacks imply that "violent crimes are associated with blacks"? It doesn't. The former is a fact while the latter is a stereotype.

Then you quote as an example:

I doubt it's news bias because African Americans have the highest incarceration rate in this country.

I fail to see the link here either. It's true that African Americans have the highest incarceration rate among any ethnicity in this country, or is this not true? Please correct me if I am wrong. I fail to see how stating that African Americans have the highest incarceration rate among any ethnicity in this country is equal to saying that "violent crimes are associated with blacks".

[Tailgater]

Quote me on where I said this man "Must have been black".


"Donnell" sounds like a black name. I wouldn't be surprised if this man was African American which he probably is.

Your making this too easy.

[Taffer]

No, the guy who killed her kid wasn't even his father - and I'm asserting that she would have made a better parent than THAT particular guy (of course most guys would have). :)

Ah, ok, now I understand your point. And let me say:

Agreed.

:o

[Mephisto]

No it is not. The title of this thread is a dead giveaway of your real intention, to somehow pin this domestic story on the war in Iraq. You are being intellectually dishonest.

Pardalis - YOU'RE the one making this thread about Iraq - the thread title is LOOKING FOR A FEW GOOD MEN, how am I being intellectually dishonest?

[Dustin Kesselberg]

I know a man whose name is Leroy and plays brass in a jazz band - care to guess his ethnicity?

No. I know a lot of Leroy's who are Caucasian as well as a lot of Caucasian Jazz musicians. I don't know many (any) Donnell's who are white. Though as I said earlier there are probably a few.

[Lonewulf]

Oh well.

:(

I know.

Then your point was meaningless and fallacious. Of course I focused more on your posts when I started to realize who was saying them. In fact, whenever I enter a thread that you start posting in, I have to roll my eyes and know that the thread will be swamped with dumbass responses... just like... this one. Weird, isn't it?

Your standing on this board, in biology, is equivalent to the parasite.

Quote me on where I said this man "Must have been black". Go ahead, I'll wait.

You're right, a random rant on the "state of blacks today" was totally inductive.

Even if you were wrong, you get a whole argument about blacks in today's society, in a thread where it's totally off topic. So much more logical.

Or better yet, Please explain where I linked his being black to the high incarceration rate of African Americans.

What the hell? So you're saying you said that at random?

I assumed he was black based on his first name. That's it. It was an assumption and I could of been wrong. Though I probably wasn't.

Uh huh.

Fantastic.

Indeed. Nothing says parody like demonstrating irony.

[Taffer]

No it is not. The title of this thread is a dead giveaway of your real intention, to somehow pin this domestic story on the war in Iraq. You are being intellectually dishonest.

Y'know, I'm not so sure I agree with you.

[Lonewulf]

Pardalis - YOU'RE the one making this thread about Iraq - the thread title is LOOKING FOR A FEW GOOD MEN, how am I being intellectually dishonest?

Look, can we both agree that women should serve just as well as men? That is their choice?

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Your making this too easy.


Is English your 2nd language?

Must
2 : an indispensable item : ESSENTIAL (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/essential) <exercise is a must>

Probably
: insofar as seems reasonably true, factual, or to be expected : without much doubt <is probably happy> <it will probably rain>

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary


I've made it clear that it's a possibility that he could of been Caucasian. Yet you see my statement as implying that he "MUST" have been African American?

Here's a link you might benefit from...

http://www.englishclub.com/

[Pardalis]

Pardalis - YOU'RE the one making this thread about Iraq - the thread title is LOOKING FOR A FEW GOOD MEN, how am I being intellectually dishonest?

The expression has obvious military connotations. And since we all know your position about Iraq, and the fact that this soldier happens to serve in Iraq, it isn't hard to see your intention to criticize the war in Iraq.

If you want to be dishonest with me that's fine, at least don't be dishonest with yourself.

If this isn't about the war in Iraq, then you have shown to be much more misogynistic than you thought you were.

[Lonewulf]

Is English your 2nd language?

Must


Probably


http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary


I've made it clear that it's a possibility that he could of been Caucasian. Yet you see my statement as implying that he "MUST" have been African American?

Here's a link you might benefit from...

http://www.englishclub.com/

Talk about missing the forest for the trees.

[Darth Rotor]

No. I know a lot of Leroy's who are Caucasian as well as a lot of Caucasian Jazz musicians. I don't know many (any) Donnell's who are white. Though as I said earlier there are probably a few.
Which is why you should have resorted to facts first.

Q: "Is Donnell black or not" would have been useful to find out, as a fact, before embarking on your intended derail. You still have not advised me on how that adds value to this discussion.

Your sloppiness begs to get hammered for making a stereotype based assertion unsupported by a fact, and yet you complain for being hammered for speculation unsupported by fact.

Here.

On this board.

Let's see. I can do the same for you.

"Dustin posts a lot on an internet forum, so he must have a small penis and no social skills."

An assumption unsupported by facts, since I know neither detail about you IRL, yet some forum participants do indeed have those traits. What I can't do is actually link them to you, anymore than you can link "black" to this Donnell character, unless you first do some fact finding.

Do you see what your error was?

DR

[Tailgater]

I fail to see the link.

No kidding.

Why can't you make the connection between something having "mostly" or the "highest" of X and that something being associated with X?

Also, look at your own sentence where you change from "mostly" to "many". You change the context of your own sentences to backpeddle.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Then your point was meaningless and fallacious. Of course I focused more on your posts when I started to realize who was saying them. In fact, whenever I enter a thread that you start posting in, I have to roll my eyes and know that the thread will be swamped with dumbass responses... just like... this one. Weird, isn't it?

You honed in on me because of my criticism of your deviant fantasies. Not because you disagree with the body of my posts. It's a personal grudge and nothing more.


You're right, a random rant on the "state of blacks today" was totally inductive.

Even if you were wrong, you get a whole argument about blacks in today's society, in a thread where it's totally off topic. So much more logical.

Not if this man is African American. It isn't off topic. It helps delve deeper into the topic of the thread itself by examining the possible cultural implications of his crime.


What the hell? So you're saying you said that at random?

No. I think that delving into the cultural implications of his crime would improve the topic and thread.

Uh huh.

Indeed.


Indeed. Nothing says parody like demonstrating irony.

Quite.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Talk about missing the forest for the trees.


I'm just pointing out how he totally misrepresented what I initially said.

[Lonewulf]

You honed in on me because of my criticism of your deviant fantasies. Not because you disagree with the body of my posts. It's a personal grudge and nothing more.

Interesting hypothesis. Proof?

Not if this man is African American. It isn't off topic.

Once again, you missed the point.

It helps delve deeper into the topic of the thread itself by examining the possible cultural implications of his crime.

It must be the rap music... *nods*

No. I think that delving into the cultural implications of his crime would improve the topic and thread.

You would think that, wouldn't you?

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Which is why you should have resorted to facts first.

Q: "Is Donnell black or not" would have been useful to find out, as a fact, before embarking on your intended derail. You still have not advised me on how that adds value to this discussion.

Your sloppiness begs to get hammered for making a stereotype based assertion unsupported by a fact, and yet you complain for being hammered for speculation unsupported by fact.

Here.

On this board.

Let's see. I can do the same for you.

"Dustin posts a lot on an internet forum, so he must have a small penis and no social skills."

An assumption unsupported by facts, since I know neither detail about you IRL, yet some forum participants do indeed have those traits. What I can't do is actually link them to you, anymore than you can link "black" to this Donnell character, unless you first do some fact finding.

Do you see what your error was?

DR


I could probably show a correlation between the first name "Donnell" and being African American. Though if I am wrong about "Donnell" being a mainly African American name, I'll admit that my bringing it up was wrong. If you could show a correlation between posting on this forum and having no social skills plus a small penis then I'd be interested in what you have to say.

[Darth Rotor]

Interesting hypothesis. Proof?

Once again, you missed the point.

It must be the rap music... *nods*

You would think that, wouldn't you?
Did you notice that the race of the mother has not been raised . . . yet? ;)

DR

[Lonewulf]

Urge to continue arguing... failing...

[Tailgater]

Why is it that whenever we hear of these sorts of violent crimes in the news the perpetrators seem to mostly be African American?

I fail to see the link. How is pointing out that many violent crimes portrayed in the media seem to be perpetuated by blacks imply that "violent crimes are associated with blacks"? It doesn't. The former is a fact while the latter is a stereotype.

1. mostly: almost entirely

1. adjective considerable number: a considerable number of people or things

Is English your second language? Back at ya.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Interesting hypothesis. Proof?

I'll pass.

Once again, you missed the point.

What's the point? Please elaborate.



It must be the rap music... *nods*

That's a possibility. Or other similar problems in African American culture. Even Cosby and Obama agree with me that Gangster rap music harms African American culture. I guess according to your logic they are bigots too.


You would think that, wouldn't you?

Indeed I would.

[Taffer]

You honed in on me because of my criticism of your deviant fantasies. Not because you disagree with the body of my posts. It's a personal grudge and nothing more.

Evidence?

Haven't you learned by now that just because you claim it to be true, doesn't mean it is?

Talk about pulling a DJJ.

[Tailgater]

I'm just pointing out how he totally misrepresented what I initially said.

I didn't misrepresent anything. Both are direct quotes from you. You're just splitting hairs.

[Mephisto]

The expression has obvious military connotations. And since we all know your position about Iraq, and the fact that this soldier happens to serve in Iraq, it isn't hard to see your intention to criticize the war in Iraq.

Well, you know what they say about assumptions. ;)

[Dustin Kesselberg]

1. mostly: almost entirely

1. adjective considerable number: a considerable number of people or things

Is English your second language. Back at ya.

Indeed. It's a fact that (in my personal experience at least) most of the time I hear about violent crimes in the media the perpetrators are African Americans. However this isn't what your initial assertions were. Allow me to quote you.

I said:
Quote me on where I said this man "Must have been black".

Your quote as an example was:
"Donnell" sounds like a black name. I wouldn't be surprised if this man was African American which he probably is.

You were quoting my assertion that since his name was "Donnell" that he was probably African American in defense of the assertion that I said he "Must have been African American".

Now you're changing the subject. You quote me as saying that "Most"(in my personal experience at least) violent crimes in the media are perpetuated by African Americans in defense of the assertion that I said this man "Must have been African American"? I never implied he was African American because many violent crimes portrayed in the media seem to be perpetuated by African Americans. The only implication that I made that this man was African American was his name which sounds African American to me.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

I didn't misrepresent anything. Both are direct quotes from you. You're just splitting hairs.

Direct quotes from me? Here's your initial comment regarding my statement:

LOL. Ok. Nappy-headed is not associated with blacks, but "Donnel" and violent crimes are. You are a real gem.

This is a "Direct quote"? Really?


You're quite the liar aren't you?

[Lonewulf]

Is anyone surprised that Dustin listened to Imus all the time in the past? Anyone?

[Tailgater]

Indeed. It's a fact that (in my personal experience at least) most of the time I hear about violent crimes in the media the perpetrators are African Americans. However this isn't what your initial assertions were. Allow me to quote you.

I said:


Your quote as an example was:


You were quoting my assertion that since his name was "Donnell" that he was probably African American in defense of the assertion that I said he "Must have been African American".

Now you're changing the subject. You quote me as saying that "Most"(in my personal experience at least) violent crimes in the media are perpetuated by African Americans in defense of the assertion that I said this man "Must have been African American"? I never implied he was African American because many violent crimes portrayed in the media seem to be perpetuated by African Americans. The only implication that I made that this man was African American was his name which sounds African American to me.

Bob:"Ya know Slim, "Donnell" sounds like a black name. I wouldn't be surprised if this man was African American which he probably is."

Slim:"Yup, he must be black."

Bob:"I said probably, Slim. He probably has a nappy head too, but so does Imus. What do think, I'm a racist?"

[Pardalis]

Well, you know what they say about assumptions. ;)

Ok then, so, back to the "topic".

Do you have a problem with women working in the military, or with women working altogether, since it is you who posit that this woman should have stayed home with her kids instead of going to Iraq (her work)?

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Bob:"Ya know Slim, "Donnell" sounds like a black name. I wouldn't be surprised if this man was African American which he probably is."

Slim:"Yup, he must be black."

Bob:"I said probably, Slim. He probably has a nappy head too, but so does Imus. What do think, I'm a racist?"



I never said or implied that he "must" be African American.

I clearly admitted that there is a possibility that he is not African American several times.

You've clearly(as I've shown here (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2638810&postcount=87), here (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2638806&postcount=86) and here (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2638751&postcount=70)) lied about what I actually said.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Is anyone surprised that Dustin listened to Imus all the time in the past? Anyone?

Don Imus has done more for African Americans than you could ever dream of doing.

What's there not to be surprised about?

[Tailgater]

Direct quotes from me? Here's your initial comment regarding my statement:

This is a "Direct quote"? Really?

You're quite the liar aren't you?

Right. My comment was my comment. Further on, I use direct quotes from you and your best comeback is splitting hairs over 2 words which I then parody in my last post. You calling me a liar is a compliment. It means your going to log off soon and think up more obtuse ways to argue. Thanks.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Right. My comment was my comment. Further on, I use direct quotes from you and your best comeback is splitting hairs over 2 words which I then parody in my last post. You calling me a liar is a compliment. It means your going to log off soon and think up more obtuse ways to argue. Thanks.

"Splitting hairs"? There's a HUGE difference between implying that he is probably African American because of his name and 'he must be African American because he committed a violent crime'.

You implied I was racist by lying about what I actually posted.

[Lonewulf]

Don Imus has done more for African Americans than you could ever dream of doing.

What's there not to be surprised about?

More for African Americans than I could ever dream of doing?

Evidence?

Specifically that I will never do anything for African Americans.

[Darth Rotor]

I could probably show a correlation between the first name "Donnell" and being African American. Though if I am wrong about "Donnell" being a mainly African American name, I'll admit that my bringing it up was wrong.
Indeed, but if you were right, please answer this from page 1:

What value this branch of thought you chose to raise adds to this thread is a mystery to me.

Care to explain?
"This branch of thought" refers to introducing Donnell as a black.

DR

[Mephisto]

You're just splitting hairs.

Dustin splits hair so often he must be pretty nappy-headed. ;)

[Tailgater]

I never said or implied that he "must" be African American.

I clearly admitted that there is a possibility that he is not African American several times.

You've clearly(as I've shown here (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2638810&postcount=87), here (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2638806&postcount=86) and here (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2638751&postcount=70)) lied about what I actually said.

We all know that must is absolute, most is almost entirely, and many is a considerable number of.

What part feels contorted? How about the assertion that I implied that 'violent crimes are associated with blacks'? I never implied such a thing.

Associate -1. transitive verb connect things in mind: to connect one thing with another in the mind

Now, does this statement associate X with Y?:

X are mostly y

I've made it clear that it's a possibility that he could of been Caucasian. Yet you see my statement as implying that he "MUST" have been African American?

Imply-1. suggest: to make something understood without expressing it directly.

[Mephisto]

Ok then, so, back to the "topic".

Do you have a problem with women working in the military, or with women working altogether, since it is you who posit that this woman should have stayed home with her kids instead of going to Iraq (her work)?

C'mon, Pardalis - I have a problem with women choosing men who "aren't good" to take care of their children while they are away. The fact that she was away in Iraq in the military simply says that she CAN'T say no to her employer.

I have no problem with women in the military, I've already said that I've known some women to be better fighters than some men, and I don't believe a woman's place is in the home and the topic is: Looking for a few good men; so how am I being intellectually dishonest?

[Dustin Kesselberg]

More for African Americans than I could ever dream of doing?

Evidence?

Specifically that I will never do anything for African Americans.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imus_Ranch


Maybe I'm wrong about him doing more for African Americans than you "could ever dream of". Maybe you have dreamed of helping a lot of African Americans. ;)

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Indeed, but if you were right, please answer this from page 1:


"This branch of thought" refers to introducing Donnell as a black.

DR


It gets into African American culture which is a very deep topic.

[Taffer]

Ok then, so, back to the "topic".

Do you have a problem with women working in the military, or with women working altogether, since it is you who posit that this woman should have stayed home with her kids instead of going to Iraq (her work)?

In all fairness, mate, I think the point is she should have stayed home with the kids because of who her boyfriend was, not because she is a woman. I feel the same statement would apply if the gender roles were reversed.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

We all know that must is absolute, most is almost entirely, and many is a considerable number of.

Indeed. I never used the word "must" in my initial comments and I used the word "most" to refer to the number of people portrayed in the media committed violent crimes being African American. I used "Probably for the name "Darnell" being African American not the incarceration rate of African Americans in the united states.

Associate -1. transitive verb connect things in mind: to connect one thing with another in the mind

Now, does this statement associate X with Y?:

X are mostly y

What statement? That "Many people with the Donnell are African American"? or that "Most news reports of violent crimes are perpetuated by African Americans"? Your association is wrong.



Imply-1. suggest: to make something understood without expressing it directly.

Your implication is wrong. Sorry

[Lonewulf]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imus_Ranch


Maybe I'm wrong about him doing more for African Americans than you "could ever dream of". Maybe you have dreamed of helping a lot of African Americans. ;)

Half are minorities, 10% are black, if those figures are even correct.

So helping the blacks seems to only be a side effect of the project. Interesting.

But this is beyond the point. You state that Imus did good for charity. Well, fine. What does this have to do with his radio show, or specifically, what was on it?

Got any excerpts that show anything good on his show? Or are random insults your gig?

I'll make this clearer for your low comprehension abilities: I noted YOU listening to the SHOW. Not Imus' personal character.

For all I know, some KKK members were good husbands and fathers. That doesn't make me question their speech.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Half are minorities, 10% are black, if those figures are even correct.

So helping the blacks seems to only be a side effect of the project. Interesting.

But this is beyond the point. You state that Imus did good for charity. Well, fine. What does this have to do with his radio show, or specifically, what was on it?

Got any excerpts that show anything good on his show? Or are random insults your gig?

I'll make this clearer for your low comprehension abilities: I noted YOU listening to the SHOW. Not Imus' personal character.

For all I know, some KKK members were good husbands and fathers. That doesn't make me question their speech.

Side effect? If he was racist his Ranch wouldn't be 50% minority.

If Imus isn't racist (as I've established in this and many other previous threads) then how does my listening or not listening to his show have any relevance to this topic? It doesn't.

How does bringing up whether or not KKK members are good fathers in relating to their racist beliefs have anything to do even with Imus? It doesn't. The contention that Imus is racist and the response that he has done good for minorities including blacks is in direct relation to his being racist or not. Whether or not KKK members are good husbands or fathers is totally irrelevant to whether or not they are racists.

[Lonewulf]

If Imus isn't racist (as I've established in this and many other previous threads) then how does my listening or not listening to his show have any relevance to this topic? It doesn't.

I asked a question. That's all. It doesn't matter if it had anything to do with the subject... as your rant on those evil blacks demonstrated. :)

How does bringing up whether or not KKK members are good fathers in relating to their racist beliefs have anything to do even with Imus? It doesn't. The contention that Imus is racist and the response that he has done good for minorities including blacks is in direct relation to his being racist or not. Whether or not KKK members are good husbands or fathers is totally irrelevant to whether or not they are racists.

His radio show wasn't nice, last I heard. Do you have evidence to the contrary? I don't see why his personal character directly influences his speech.

[Tailgater]

Imus sounds like a racist name. I wouldn't be surprised if this man was a racist, which he probably is. Why is it that whenever we hear about racist remarks on radio in the news the perpetrators seem to mostly be old white guys? Remember the guy talking about nappy headed hos? I doubt it's news bias because old white people have the highest racist comment rate in this country. Can we still blame society on this? What's the problem here?


BTW: I'm pretty sure Donell is Irish/Scottish.

[Mephisto]

Side effect? If he was racist his Ranch wouldn't be 50% minority.

This is as irrelevant if Imus ran a convenience store whose patrons were mostly African-Americans, there are laws forbiding catering to people by race alone. Imus can be a racist and still run his ranch just as you can be a racist and claim to be a logical human being.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

I asked a question. That's all. It doesn't matter if it had anything to do with the subject... as your rant on those evil blacks demonstrated. :)

You said "Evil blacks"? You bigot!



His radio show wasn't nice, last I heard. Do you have evidence to the contrary? I don't see why his personal character directly influences his speech.

Don't know what you mean.

Imus sounds like a racist name.

How?

I wouldn't be surprised if this man was a racist, which he probably is.

Based on what?

Why is it that whenever we hear about racist remarks on radio in the news the perpetrators seem to mostly be old white guys?

Really? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Sharpton#Controversies)


Remember the guy talking about nappy headed hos? I doubt it's news bias because old white people have the highest racist comment rate in this country. Can we still blame society on this? What's the problem here?

Highest racist comment rate in the country? Proof?

Here's mine (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/jailrair.htm) regarding incarceration rates.


BTW: I'm pretty sure Donell is Irish/Scottish.

Historically it is.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

This is as irrelevant if Imus ran a convenience store whose patrons were mostly African-Americans, there are laws forbiding catering to people by race alone. Imus can be a racist and still run his ranch

Yet he attends the funerals of all of those who die. Not just the white ones. There are no laws forcing him to do that.

just as you can be a racist and claim to be a logical human being.

Except I'm not racist.

[Tailgater]

How?

Sounds like one to me

Based on what?

assumption

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Sharpton#Controversies

That's one example. Where did I say they all "must" be old white men? I said the media shows "mostly" old white men. Now you are contorting what I said. You are a liar.

Here's mine regarding incarceration rates.

Just because something hasn't yet been proven to be a fact doesn't mean it isn't a fact.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Sounds like one to me.

How?



assumption

Based on what?


That's one example. Where did I say they all "must" be old white men? I said the media shows "mostly" old white men. Now you are contorting what I said. You are a liar.

The media shows "mostly" old white men? Proof?


Just because something hasn't yet been proven to be a fact doesn't mean it isn't a fact.

What does this have to do with anything? I've already proven the incarceration rates are a fact.

[Tailgater]

How?

Because that is what I assume


Based on what?

Personal opinion

The media shows "mostly" old white men? Proof?

I don't need proof, because that is what I see mostly on the news.

What does this have to do with anything? I've already proven the incarceration rates are a fact.

Yes, you did. Good for you. I don't know what you are trying to associate those figures with though.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Because that is what I assume

Why?

Personal opinion

So baseless?


I don't need proof, because that is what I see mostly on the news.

Fine, Give 3 other recent examples then that most supposedly racist comments on the radio are made by "old white men" that you see on the news. I gave examples for other examples of African American perpetrators of violent crimes shown in the recent media.


Yes, you did. Good for you. I don't know what you are trying to associate those figures with though.

1. You never answered my question. In response to my proof of the incarceration rates you replied "Just because something hasn't yet been proven to be a fact doesn't mean it isn't a fact." and I asked "What does this have to do with anything? I've already proven the incarceration rates are a fact." You never answered.

2. I'm associating the statistics with this case.

[Mephisto]

Yet he attends the funerals of all of those who die. Not just the white ones. There are no laws forcing him to do that.

Maybe he just likes funerals. Can you prove that he goes to all the funerals?



Except I'm not racist.

Funny, that's the same thing Imus said.

[Pardalis]

C'mon, Pardalis - I have a problem with women choosing men who "aren't good" to take care of their children while they are away.

OK, so the woman has poor judgement when it comes to her boyfriends. So this has nothing to do with the fact that she is the one working for her family, or the fact that's she's in the military.

But why did you say she should have been the one staying at home and the boyfriend the one sent to Iraq?

here:

My point was, it's sad that this woman isn't at home taking care of her children while her murderous boyfriend is in Iraq.

and here:

My assertion that HE should be the one fighting in Iraq has more do to with the chance that HE could be killed while leaving the mother at home to take better care of her children than he apparently could.

So care to explain why you bring Iraq into this?

The fact that she was away in Iraq in the military simply says that she CAN'T say no to her employer.

Oh, so now it's the US marines' fault if her little boy got killed? Why would she say no to her employer if she chose military life? Why would she say no to her employer when she probably thought everything was OK with letting her boyfriend take care of her child? Surely you're not implying she knew her child was in danger?

And again, what if she was in Afghanistan, or Somalia, or just working for a firm that obligated her to be out of the country for a good part of the year? Would you say that her employer was the one at fault?

I have no problem with women in the military, I've already said that I've known some women to be better fighters than some men, and I don't believe a woman's place is in the home and the topic is: Looking for a few good men; so how am I being intellectually dishonest?Because what I'm trying to make you see, is that you have taken a stance in this thread that is contradictory to your ideological value system. You clearly stand on the left end of the political spectrum, but yet you say things like: "she should have stayed home with her kids".

I find this odd since you have shown great consistency during the few months I have read your posts.

In all fairness, mate, I think the point is she should have stayed home with the kids because of who her boyfriend was, not because she is a woman. I feel the same statement would apply if the gender roles were reversed.

She probably didn't know her boyfriend was going to abuse and kill her child, I'm afraid this happens too often that women aren't aware of their lover's violence until it's too late.

It still has nothing to do with he career choice, and even less to do with the war in Iraq.

[Darth Rotor]

It gets into African American culture which is a very deep topic.
And branching the OP to that topic Adds What Value to the thread?

So far, I see none, other than to draw attention to yourself.

DR

[Darth Rotor]

Funny, that's the same thing Imus said.
The difference is, I believe Imus. Your sparring partner I am not so sure about.

DR

[Azure]

And speaking of confused:

Yes...I am confused because I believe you can't force our culture, and our way of life onto a group of people who are culturally different then us.

Way to go!

[Mephisto]

Because what I'm trying to make you see, is that you have taken a stance in this thread that is contradictory to your ideological value system. You clearly stand on the left end of the political spectrum, but yet you say things like: "she should have stayed home with her kids".

I find this odd since you have shown great consistency during the few months I have read your posts.

The consistency remains it's your interpretation of it that need reworking.

A. Neither the Marine Corps nor the Army are at fault for what happened to this woman's child.

B. I fully support the role of women in the military or any other job they care to try.

C. The subject title: Looking for a Few Good Men, only reflects upon the fact that this woman could have used a better man to leave in charge of her children.

D. If I brought the military's involvement in Iraq into this, it's because I feel sorry for the woman (who obviously had the fortitude to BE in the military serving in Iraq) who left her children in care of a man (who DIDN'T have the guts to serve and support them) who was cowardly enough to kill a child.

Okay?