Leave this guy alone

[American]

Man sues doctor who left surgery to cash check (http://12.31.13.48/HealthNews/reuters/NewsStory1205200231.htm)


So WHAT..... B.F.D.!

Are you a doctor? No. I don't think anyone is qualified to judge this guy. If the case goes to trial, the whole jury should be made of spinal surgeons. Fair is fair.

Nobody died. He already says he done wrong and he ain't going to do that again, EVER. (If the repo guy comes to get his Corvette, he still won't do it again!)

Even if he is culpable in some small measure for the well-being of his patients, his skills are too valuable to society to go and waste by punishing him real hard, like with jail or a fine. He went through a LOT to get to where he is, probably more than you and me to get to where we's at.

Come on. Give the man a break.

[hammegk]

Hell yes, let him slide. He passed a fair number of science courses getting his training, and if he didn't lean towards making money he likely could have become a scientist.

He's obviously already a moral anarchist who examines every moral dilemma logically. Damn late bills anyway.

[American]

I shoulda done a poll, but I bet there aint many spinal docs here anyway.

[Ziggurat]

I think the last thing this guy wants in his defense is a jury full of surgeons, because they'll all know how unbelievably unprofessional that was.

[Random]

Originally posted by American
Man sues doctor who left surgery to cash check (http://12.31.13.48/HealthNews/reuters/NewsStory1205200231.htm)

[QUOTE][B]
So WHAT..... B.F.D.!

I think that leaving a patient in the middle of surgery to take care of what can only be described as a non-immediate personal problem is a very big deal.

Are you a doctor? No. I don't think anyone is qualified to judge this guy. If the case goes to trial, the whole jury should be made of spinal surgeons. Fair is fair.

I may not be qualified to judge this guy, but the Massachusetts Board of Registration in Medicine is. And they have issued a summary suspension of his license. You have to really screw up to get a summary suspension.

Nobody died. He already says he done wrong and he ain't going to do that again, EVER. (If the repo guy comes to get his Corvette, he still won't do it again!)

Well he's not gonna be doing it for the next three years at least, because his license has been suspended. The patient might not have died, but he is complaining of spinal damage. And we don't let proven rapists off the hook if they say they're sorry. Why shouldn't the patient (who is the most wronged individual in this mess) be allowed to go after this guy in a court of law?

Even if he is culpable in some small measure for the well-being of his patients, his skills are too valuable to society to go and waste by punishing him real hard, like with jail or a fine. He went through a LOT to get to where he is, probably more than you and me to get to where we's at.

Even if he is culpable in some small measure for the well-being of his patients... ? HE'S A DOCTOR! If he is not culpable for the well being of his patients, who is exactly? A mechanic is expected to be responsible for the repairs that he does on a car, but a doctor gets a free ride?
As for the argument that he is too valuable to society to punish, how many times does he get to screw up before we can start complaining? What do you say to the second guy he screws up on? "I know you can't walk anymore, and this guy has screwed up before, but at the time we evaluated his education and decided he was too valuable to punish. Here is your complimentary wheelchair."

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by American
Nobody died.


No, the patient is just complaining of severe pain in his right leg.

I assume the poor doctor has an avenue of appeal against the facist state medical board?

[Mr Manifesto]

And anyway... how the hell does anyone get so behind in paying their bills that it can't wait one day? If he can't organise his finances, do you really want this guy poking around in your spine <---- Yes, yes, I know, invalid argument, couldn't resist. :)

[Renfield]

Please. Don't feed the trolls. You know that only makes them come back for more.

Originally posted by American
Man sues doctor who left surgery to cash check (http://12.31.13.48/HealthNews/reuters/NewsStory1205200231.htm)


So WHAT..... B.F.D.!

Are you a doctor? No. I don't think anyone is qualified to judge this guy. If the case goes to trial, the whole jury should be made of spinal surgeons. Fair is fair.

Nobody died. He already says he done wrong and he ain't going to do that again, EVER. (If the repo guy comes to get his Corvette, he still won't do it again!)

Even if he is culpable in some small measure for the well-being of his patients, his skills are too valuable to society to go and waste by punishing him real hard, like with jail or a fine. He went through a LOT to get to where he is, probably more than you and me to get to where we's at.

Come on. Give the man a break.

[Random]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto

I assume the poor doctor has an avenue of appeal against the facist state medical board?

I can't say for certain (The Mass Board of Medicine is in a different branch of the DPH than me), but the usual way that these cases are handled is the practitioner admits he screwed up, then signs a consent agreement saying something like "I voluntarily give up all rights to complain about the Board disciplining me" and receives a set penalty like a one year license surrender or a two year probationary period. If the doctor decides to fight it all the way up the food chain (which is only done when there is a real question of guilt or the person is a total chowderhead), the Board will take into account the fact that the doctor seems incapable of accepting responsibility for his actions, and he might get his license suspended for three years or revoked entirely.
A revocation is unlikely in this case. The patient did not die, the doctor left at a stage of the procedure where most of the work had been done already, and I believe that it was his first screw up. A voluntary license surrender for a year or two in the most likely scenario.

[Ian Osborne]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto
And anyway... how the hell does anyone get so behind in paying their bills that it can't wait one day? If he can't organise his finances, do you really want this guy poking around in your spine <---- Yes, yes, I know, invalid argument, couldn't resist. :)

Why is this an invalid argument? I agree that a person's personal finances don't necessarily reflect on his professional prowess (a taxi driver with gambling debts isn't necessarily a bad driver), but it's the surgeon who connected the two by leaving the operating theatre to go to the bank. If he's so behind paying his bills that it affects his professional judgement (which it clearly did), surely the argument is sound?

[Dancing David]

Gee American, the only thing that would make this better is if some ugly women charged him with rape for not having sex with her while he cashed the checks.

I am sure glad that when I go to a restraunt, my cooks don't leave the meal while it's cooking.

Yeah, a jury of surgeons would nail this guy to the wall, better a bunch of unemployed carpenters and house wives try him!

[Boo]

He is in fact guilty of abandoment. If you walk away from a patient that you have responibility for without turning care over to someone of equal or higher level of ability and ensuring continuity of care, that is abandoment.

As a Paramedic, if I walked away from a patient or started care and then turned him over to anyone other than an Physician or RN, my liscence would be gone for good.

He deserves at minimum a 1 year suspension and 2 years supervised probationary re-instatement.

JMHO.


Boo

[Crossbow]

Originally posted by American
Man sues doctor who left surgery to cash check (http://12.31.13.48/HealthNews/reuters/NewsStory1205200231.htm)


So WHAT..... B.F.D.!

Are you a doctor? No. I don't think anyone is qualified to judge this guy. If the case goes to trial, the whole jury should be made of spinal surgeons. Fair is fair.

Nobody died. He already says he done wrong and he ain't going to do that again, EVER. (If the repo guy comes to get his Corvette, he still won't do it again!)

Even if he is culpable in some small measure for the well-being of his patients, his skills are too valuable to society to go and waste by punishing him real hard, like with jail or a fine. He went through a LOT to get to where he is, probably more than you and me to get to where we's at.

Come on. Give the man a break.

If you really want the guy to have a decent chance at the trial, then the last thing you want to do is have him judged by his peers; letting off one of their fellow doctors easy after a dumb stunt like this will not reflect well on them at all.

It would be much better for the doctor in question if the jury was made up of people who would be sympathetic to those with lots of bills and living paycheck to paycheck.

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto
And anyway... how the hell does anyone get so behind in paying their bills that it can't wait one day? If he can't organise his finances, do you really want this guy poking around in your spine <---- Yes, yes, I know, invalid argument, couldn't resist. :)

I happen to agree with this "strawman" argument. Sometimes, it seems any idiot can get a medical license these days. (Or get elected governor of California)

A more suitable case for this thread would be the woman who sued the doctor for burning the initials of his alma mater into her removed uterus. He did this because he must make some kind of mark before removal to maintain the correct orientation. Like he could have put L|R, but instead he put U|K, his school's initials -- BFD.

[American]

Now look what they're framing him with!

WashingtonTimes.com (http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20030809-095553-1775r.htm)

David C. Arndt, an orthopedic surgeon, was arrested Friday afternoon when he picked up a package from a local hotel containing a kilo of methamphetamine, The Boston Globe reported Saturday.

A spokesman for the Suffolk district attorney's office said the drugs were worth about $25,000.

Authorities had been tipped off by postal inspectors in Los Angeles. Suspicious inspectors obtained a warrant and opened the package, finding a paper pinata filled with the drug, officials said.

Number one- this was the Boston Globe that first reported the story. The same Globe that opposed the war in IRAQ.

Number 2- maybe he thought he was getting a REGULAR pinata that was filled with delicious candy. That's the kind I usually get, not one that's filled with high-grade Columbian smack.

Third of all, he's a doctor. If he wanted drugs, he works in a HOSPITAL! There's drugs everywhere, even a medical kind of heroin that don't cost $25,000 and 20 years in jail. This guy would have to be some sort of a QUACK to go and buy street drugs!

I don't believe it. I won't be fooled like that.

[Aoidoi]

Originally posted by Boo
He is in fact guilty of abandoment. If you walk away from a patient that you have responibility for without turning care over to someone of equal or higher level of ability and ensuring continuity of care, that is abandoment.

As a Paramedic, if I walked away from a patient or started care and then turned him over to anyone other than an Physician or RN, my liscence would be gone for good.
I'm curious... what if the person recovers? You're called out for a person hyperventilating, after you're there he calms down and is fine. Do you need to turn him over for more care even if it's your professional opinion he doesn't need it?

(obviously this surgeon is a different case, but I figured it's close enough for me to ask to assuage my curiousity. :))

A surgeon does an operation, finishes up and hands the patient off to the post-op people. How is he allowed to do that? Is it as simple as just professional opinion as to the need for further care, or is there more to it?

I spend as little time around doctors on their home turf as I can manage, so I just figured I'd ask what the policies are.

[Boo]

Originally posted by Aoidoi
I'm curious... what if the person recovers? You're called out for a person hyperventilating, after you're there he calms down and is fine. Do you need to turn him over for more care even if it's your professional opinion he doesn't need it?

Any individual has the right to refuse medical care and treatment, however if they want to go to the hospital in the ambulance I have to take them.

(obviously this surgeon is a different case, but I figured it's close enough for me to ask to assuage my curiousity. :))

A surgeon does an operation, finishes up and hands the patient off to the post-op people. How is he allowed to do that? Is it as simple as just professional opinion as to the need for further care, or is there more to it?

The surgeon still retains responsibility for the patient. They are either available by phone or have an agreement with another surgeon to be available as needed.


I spend as little time around doctors on their home turf as I can manage, so I just figured I'd ask what the policies are.

The issue here is that the patient was still on the operating table and under the ultimate responsibility of the surgeon in question. The action was irresponsible. I am suprised that the hospital where this occured has not made a statement as the surgeons actions also had liability consequenses for it as well.


Boo

[Ziggurat]

Originally posted by American
Now look what they're framing him with!

WashingtonTimes.com (http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20030809-095553-1775r.htm)

Number one- this was the Boston Globe that first reported the story. The same Globe that opposed the war in IRAQ.


What relevance does their editorial policy have on the veracity of this story? You just don't like their politics. So the hell what, that doesn't mean they're wrong about this.


Number 2- maybe he thought he was getting a REGULAR pinata that was filled with delicious candy. That's the kind I usually get, not one that's filled with high-grade Columbian smack.


Sometimes it's hard to tell if you're kidding.


Third of all, he's a doctor. If he wanted drugs, he works in a HOSPITAL! There's drugs everywhere, even a medical kind of heroin that don't cost $25,000 and 20 years in jail. This guy would have to be some sort of a QUACK to go and buy street drugs!

I don't believe it. I won't be fooled like that.

Drugs like heroin are very controlled, you can't steal large amounts of it from a hospital without getting caught, it's probably easier to get your hands on street drugs than to smuggle them out of a hospital (which will land you just as much time in jail), particularly if your license is suspended. And anyways, we already know he's a fool.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by American
Now look what they're framing him with!

WashingtonTimes.com (http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20030809-095553-1775r.htm)



Number one- this was the Boston Globe that first reported the story. The same Globe that opposed the war in IRAQ.

Number 2- maybe he thought he was getting a REGULAR pinata that was filled with delicious candy. That's the kind I usually get, not one that's filled with high-grade Columbian smack.

Third of all, he's a doctor. If he wanted drugs, he works in a HOSPITAL! There's drugs everywhere, even a medical kind of heroin that don't cost $25,000 and 20 years in jail. This guy would have to be some sort of a QUACK to go and buy street drugs!

I don't believe it. I won't be fooled like that.

I think this is some kind of performance-art humour. Maybe he was expecting more people to stick up for the surgeon. American must have already known about this article (dated 9 August) before he made his first post.

Maybe you can clear up what point you are trying to make, American. Because you certainly have me confused.

[American]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto
Maybe you can clear up what point you are trying to make, American. Because you certainly have me confused.


a) Are you a surgeon?

b) Have you ever ordered a pinata for a friend expecting rich, chocolately goodness with sweet caramel fillings and a rainbow of hard-sugary sweetness that will make your mouth melt, only to find it filled with a narcotic that's bound to get you shot in the head by a street thug or land you in the federal slammer with no chance of parole?

[Ziggurat]

Originally posted by American

b) Have you ever ordered a pinata for a friend expecting rich, chocolately goodness with sweet caramel fillings and a rainbow of hard-sugary sweetness that will make your mouth melt, only to find it filled with a narcotic that's bound to get you shot in the head by a street thug or land you in the federal slammer with no chance of parole?

Step away from the pinata, American, and nobody gets hurt. :cool:

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by American



a) Are you a surgeon?


No. But be careful where you're going with this line of logic, because it means that you may not be able to comment on the surgeon's innocence: You're not qualified since you aren't a surgeon, see?


b) Have you ever ordered a pinata for a friend expecting rich, chocolately goodness with sweet caramel fillings and a rainbow of hard-sugary sweetness that will make your mouth melt, only to find it filled with a narcotic that's bound to get you shot in the head by a street thug or land you in the federal slammer with no chance of parole?

I don't know if this is a common problem in the US, but in Australia you would be laughed at rather soundly if you tried to use this as an excuse for reciept of illegal drugs. "Oh, I thought it just contained candy, honest!".

Now, innocent until proven guilty and all that, but I have to say that right now- this is not a good look.

[American]

I'll give the drug trafficers one thing- they're smart, hiding meth inside a pinata. NOBODY could ever think of that, definitely not the Customs Service.


Our own laws and treaties say you can't open a pinata to look inside before party-hour (it was part of NAFTA). And then it has to be a child not more than twice the height of the pinata itself, which means no DEA agents or anyone like that.


They're using our own system against us. Pretty crafty.....

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by American
I'll give the drug trafficers one thing- they're smart, hiding meth inside a pinata. NOBODY could ever think of that, definitely not the Customs Service.


Our own laws and treaties say you can't open a pinata to look inside before party-hour (it was part of NAFTA). And then it has to be a child not more than twice the height of the pinata itself, which means no DEA agents or anyone like that.


They're using our own system against us. Pretty crafty.....

Okay, thanks for clearing up that you were in fact joking. I have to admit, though, your sense of humour is difficult to discern sometimes.