O'Reilly: Must Preserve White Christian Male Power Structure

[hgc]

From Think Progress (http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/31/preserving-the-white-christian-male-power-structure/)... O'Reilly was hosting John McCain, talking about immigration matters. Here's what he said:

But do you understand what the New York Times wants, and the far-left want? They want to break down the white, Christian, male power structure, which you’re a part, and so am I, and they want to bring in millions of foreign nationals to basically break down the structure that we have.


Great Oobly Goobly! Did he just say that out loud?!? Did John McCain not contradict him?

You have the usual tropes:
- New York Times
- far-left
- conspiracy
- sap our vital fluids
- barbarian hordes

But then he adds in the stuff that's only supposed to be spoken in closed-door committee meetings of the White Christian Male Power Structure.

[headscratcher4]

I'm almost as intrigued by BOre including himself in the "power structure"...sort of cuts against his self-proclaimed image as an ordinary Joe speaking truth to and about power...

[hgc]

I'm almost as intrigued by BOre including himself in the "power structure"...sort of cuts against his self-proclaimed image as an ordinary Joe speaking truth to and about power...


Just count the ways that he leaped before he looked. Self contradiction is no impediment to truthiness.

[headscratcher4]

Looking back and thinking about it isn't one of his strengths either.

[Solus]

I don't know which is worse O'Reilly or Limbaugh.

[Mephisto]

Well one thing you can no longer say of O'Reilly is that he's a closet White Supremicist. ;)

[Tony]

Well one thing you can no longer say of O'Reilly is that he's a closet White Supremicist. ;)

Seriously, because of this statement, it is entirely accurate to label O'Reilly a white supremacist, maybe even an anti-semite as well.

[Tsukasa Buddha]

LOL! That is the best thing he has ever said! It really summarizes all of his positions.

[hgc]

I have a prediction: Any websites or news outlets that report O'Reilly's words verbatim will be labeled left-wing smear merchants.

[NotJesus]

I don't know which is worse O'Reilly or Limbaugh.

O'Reilly's much dumber. I'm not sure if that makes him better or worse.

[Solus]

Watch it or O'Reilly will tell you to shut up and threaten you with fox news security.. :p

[PeekaBoo]

I guess he & John Gibson should talk about opening a white, Christian baby factory. Time's a wastin'

"Make more babies" because in "[t]wenty-five years ... the majority of the population is Hispanic" - John Gibson, May 2006

[ImaginalDisc]

O'Reily, the 19th century called. They want their alarmist and Nativist rhetoric back.

[corplinx]

I have a prediction: Any websites or news outlets that report O'Reilly's words verbatim will be labeled left-wing smear merchants.

No doubt funded by George Soros and Stuart Smalley.

The sad part is, we know his act by heart.

[LostAngeles]

O'Reily, the 19th century called. They want their alarmist and Nativist rhetoric back.

Early 20th Century has also called and asked for it back.

I keep having this weird idea that such ideas are no longer mainstream. That we've moved past that. Then some largely public figure like O'ReiLly opens his mouth and I start to worry.

All this kind of crap does is make minorities paranoid. Fearful. Makes me want to shout louder then BillO, oppose anything he stands for in protest, and just make the divides larger.

That's my kneejerk reaction.

My substantially more thoughtful reaction is for him to just f%$# off and die.

Then I want to know why I have to share the planet with extremists and fundamentalists.

[Darth Rotor]

Seriously, because of this statement, it is entirely accurate to label O'Reilly a white supremacist, maybe even an anti-semite as well.
???

How is this anti-Semitic? And how is he a White Supremacist? The Klan, the WN's and the Stormfront crowd are not O'Reilly's people.

While O Reilly is a blowhard, your use of "white supremacist" is hyperbole, bordering on deliberate intellectual dishonesty.

It is not racist to be for your group, like MLK or Malcom X were, for their group, as Caesar Chavez was for his group, but it is racist to be anti "every other group other than yours." I don't see O'Reilly having crossed that line. Why do you?

America has been smothered by race/ethnic awareness for that past fifty years, to the point that one can hardly have a conversation without a reference to it. This rather sucks, given Dr King's dream of us treating one another by the content of our character, rather than by other criterion. He's mentioning the 800 pound gorilla in the corner of the room, partly because

The "White Power Structure" represents The Establishment (please note, the 1960's rhetoric is relevant) and thus a move against "the Establishment" is easily seen as a move against this "White Power Structure" strawman of his. Did you read any femenist dogma? I was exposed to reams of it growing up, and the evil enemy for the femenists was

The White Male Power Structure.

So too for the Black Power movement.

The Civil Rights legislation was meant to change, if not dismantle as O Reilly suggests is the scenario now, the overbearing influence of what was clearly a White Power Structure that was either closed, or hardly open to, outsiders.

That didn't make every white male in 1962 a White Supremacist, nor an anti Semite. O'Reilly's used of "Christian" is an obvious pandering to that part of the Right Wing base.

Treating O'Reilly by the content of his character, on the other hand, means I hip check him toward the tracks when a train rushes past. :p He's not a credit to his race.

DR

[Tony]

???

How is this anti-Semitic?

You've shown unusally poor reading comprehension lately. Is everything ok? Lets break it down:

1) I clearly said maybe when I was referring to anti-semitism.

2) It maybe anti-semitic because he is advocating a state of christian power to the exclusion of other religous groups, including jews.

And how is he a White Supremacist?

What? How is it not? How does his comment about defending the white power stucture leave room for other races/groups?

The Klan, the WN's and the Stormfront crowd are not O'Reilly's people.

Says you. O'Reilly's comments clearly indicate otherwise.

While O Reilly is a blowhard, your use of "white supremacist" is hyperbole, bordering on deliberate intellectual dishonesty.

And your defense of O'Reilly's clearly white supremacist comment is disgusting. I can't help but think that you sympathize with O'Reilly's comment.

[Darth Rotor]

he is advocating a state of christian power to the exclusion of other religous groups, including jews.
Tony, please show me where he said that, particularly the exclusion of other religious groups bit.

I think you are reading more into what he said than he said, but he's still an asshat.

I am also unconvinced that you understand the terms being used.

Remember WASP as an acronym?

DR

[LostAngeles]

Tony, please show me where he said that, particularly the exclusion of other religious groups bit.

I think you are reading more into what he said that he said, but he's still an asshat.

DR

I'm pretty sure that Christian excludes Hindu, Jewish, Muslim, Zorastrian, and that which is not Christian. Kind of like Hindu excludes Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Zorastrian, and that which is not Hindu. Most religions do that. They tend to overlap and yet be disjoint groups at the same time. And that's before we get into the joy of sects.

Scientology, of course, doesn't exclude any other religion. It's compatible with every other religion.:D

[Tony]

Tony, please show me where he said that, particularly the exclusion of other religious groups bit.


Please show me how a "christian power structure" leaves room for other groups. I hasn't in the past, so how does it now?

I think you are reading more into what he said than he said, but he's still an asshat.

And I think you're neglecting to think critically about what he said because you somewhat sympathize with him.

[MilwaukeeMike]

I agree with DR. I think a lot of people here are letting their biased attitudes of Bill cloud their judgment and is causing everyone to read much more into this than what he actually meant. True, Bill never gets his facts straight and does a lot of name calling. Do you think he is really going to go on the air and say white supremacist things? Hell no! For how big of a blowhard he is, he doesnt want to lose his show. He isn't that dumb. Come on.

You know what this post shows, it shows how messed up America has actually gotten. (PC that is) That it is 100% wrong for non-racist white males to talk about anything that has to do with race. Yet windbags like Al Sharpton can call people "Crackers" on their radio shows and people dont even bat an eye. (I find that just as offensive as the N word, because its used to degrade)

[ImaginalDisc]

I agree with DR. I think a lot of people here are letting their biased attitudes of Bill cloud their judgment and is causing everyone to read much more into this than what he actually meant. True, Bill never gets his facts straight and does a lot of name calling. Do you think he is really going to go on the air and say white supremacist things? Hell no! For how big of a blowhard he is, he doesnt want to lose his show. He isn't that dumb. Come on.

You know what this post shows, it shows how messed up America has actually gotten. (PC that is) That it is 100% wrong for non-racist white males to talk about anything that has to do with race. Yet windbags like Al Sharpton can call people "Crackers" on their radio shows and people dont even bat an eye. (I find that just as offensive as the N word, because its used to degrade)

Now that you're done ranting about the perceived unfairness of the straw man that white men aren't allowed to discuss race issues, can you please explain how O'Rieley's comments are anything but racist ******** without the slightest shred of evidence?

[Darth Rotor]

Please show me how a "christian power structure" leaves room for other groups. I hasn't in the past, so how does it now?
False. The other groups are alive and well, yet the Christian Power Structure is also here. Gee, it is possible for one group to be more common without all other groups not existing, did you know that? It's a neat feature of American society.

And I think you're neglecting to think critically about what he said because you somewhat sympathize with him.
Thanks for the ad hom. Also, Pot, please meet Kettle, you who leaped all over this topic with

Hyperbole

Extrapolation to an extreme

And deliberate use of two loaded terms.

That's not critical thinking, Tony, it's both trolling and pure, unadulterated horse apples.

DR

[MilwaukeeMike]

Now that you're done ranting about the perceived unfairness of the straw man that white men aren't allowed to discuss race issues, can you please explain how O'Rieley's comments are anything but racist ******** without the slightest shred of evidence?

Where is your evidence that he was being racist. We have one little snippet where he mentions the white power structure... And how he thinks foreign nationals are flooding in to degrade it.

How is that racist? Did he say inappropriate things about a specific group or race?

No.

He mentioned foreign nationals and the white power structure..... Thats it.

[LostAngeles]

I agree with DR. I think a lot of people here are letting their biased attitudes of Bill cloud their judgment and is causing everyone to read much more into this than what he actually meant. True, Bill never gets his facts straight and does a lot of name calling. Do you think he is really going to go on the air and say white supremacist things? Hell no! For how big of a blowhard he is, he doesnt want to lose his show. He isn't that dumb. Come on.

You know what this post shows, it shows how messed up America has actually gotten. (PC that is) That it is 100% wrong for non-racist white males to talk about anything that has to do with race. Yet windbags like Al Sharpton can call people "Crackers" on their radio shows and people dont even bat an eye. (I find that just as offensive as the N word, because its used to degrade)

BillO is such a dumbass that he would totally say something like that and then say later he never said that, while Olbermann gets ratings for breaking another foot off in BillO's ass, BillO gets ratings because people are shocked and want to see who this guy is and everyone wins.

America is getting screwed up by PC just as much as it's getting screwed up by the anti-PC. I have no idea where Mr. Tased-for-being-a-jackass is now, but I recall him screaming later that he was racially-profiled for being Iranian when the report that went over about him was, "white male." He ruins it for the black males in Mission Hill (since I mentioned Charles Stuart earlier). At the same time, I got asked how my Korean grandmother can be racist when she married a black man and had his children. (I'll let you figure that one out on your own.)

The problem with America isn't PC, it's that we're all Sneetches...

[ImaginalDisc]

Where is your evidence that he was being racist. We have one little snippet where he mentions the white power structure... And how he thinks foreign nationals are flooding in to degrade it.

How is that racist? Did he say inappropriate things about a specific group or race?

No.

He mentioned foreign nationals and the white power structure..... Thats it.

But do you understand what the New York Times wants, and the far-left want? They want to break down the white, Christian, male power structure, which you’re a part, and so am I, and they want to bring in millions of foreign nationals to basically break down the structure that we have.

He accused the New York Times and the "far left" of attempting to "break down the white, Christian, male power structure" by bringing "in millions of foreign nationals to basically break down the structure that we have."

How would you characterize those remarks?

[MilwaukeeMike]

You don't have to be a racist to know that their is a "white power structure" in the United States. And that it is slowly being degraded. While I do not know who Bill is referring to by "they," I can't see how what he said is racist.

[Tony]

False. The other groups are alive and well, yet the Christian Power Structure is also here. Gee, it is possible for one group to be more common without all other groups not existing, did you know that? It's a neat feature of American society.


Theres that poor reading comprehension again.

Thanks for the ad hom. Also, Pot, please meet Kettle, you who leaped all over this topic with

Hyperbole

Extrapolation to an extreme

And deliberate use of two loaded terms.

That's not critical thinking, Tony, it's both trolling and pure, unadulterated horse apples.

Whatever racist, you're obviously commited to defending the indefensible. Have fun with your friend O'Reilly whining about the golden days of lynched jews and black and the loss of your white, christian power structure.

[Beerina]

Because God knows no Mexicans are Christians, or male.

[Tony]

Do you think he is really going to go on the air and say white supremacist things? Hell no!

Bwahahahahahaha. He did air and say a white supremacist thing.

[MilwaukeeMike]

He accused the New York Times and the "far left" of attempting to "break down the white, Christian, male power structure" by bringing "in millions of foreign nationals to basically break down the structure that we have."

How would you characterize those remarks?

I would characterize that as far right wing propaganda, garbage, so on. But not racist. He is trying to knock on the NY Times. There is a white male christian power structure that is slowly being degraded. By who and if its good or bad is any bodys guess.

[Darth Rotor]

He accused the New York Times and the "far left" of attempting to "break down the white, Christian, male power structure" by bringing "in millions of foreign nationals to basically break down the structure that we have."

How would you characterize those remarks?
I think he's race baiting, an old political tool, and I also think he's quite wrong as to who the parties are in the movers and shakers in the immigration policy mess.

The foreign nationals, at least from Mexico and many points south, are coming into this country, generally unopposed, in part due to the vested corporate interests that directly benefit from that source of labor. What Mr O'Reilly chooses to ignore, or to overlook, is that the set of 'corporate interests' intersects quite a bit with the set of "the white, Christian, male power structure" he posits.

DR

[Darth Rotor]

Theres that poor reading comprehension again.



Whatever racist, you're obviously commited to defending the indefensible. Have fun with your friend O'Reilly whining about the golden days of lynched jews and black and the loss of your white, christian power structure.
I see: rather than admit you are wrong, and guilty of hyperbole, you resort to an ad hom, directed at me, since you are at a loss for words. When you throw a grenade in the room, the frag pattern now and again hits you, Tony the race baiter.

I think you need to reconsider what Anti Semite means. It does not equal the word "Christian."

You need to look up, again, what a White Supremacist is. That does not equal the word "white male" or you would have to include Al Gore as a White Supremacist.

Don't think that shoe fits.

As to your repeat ad hom, not even close.

I thought you were smarter than that, Tony.

DR

[Tony]

You don't have to be a racist to know that their is a "white power structure" in the United States.

But you do have to be racist, and anti-american, to lament it's decline.

[Cleon]

I'm completely astonished that people see his support of the "white Christian power structure" as anything but racism and white supremacy.

At this point, I get the impression that if some popular conservative said "screw the n*****s--send 'em all back to Africa" there would still be people saying, "what? I can't see how that's racist!"

[MilwaukeeMike]

Bwahahahahahaha. He did air and say a white supremacist thing.

Hahaha, no he didn't. He made a political opinion about a news paper. A dumb founded one, but political none the less. Not racist. Im not a fan of Bill-o, but Im not about to label him a racist. Thats a harsh thing to be labeled and I think a lot of you are just happy to call him what ever you want because you hate him so much.

[LostAngeles]

You don't have to be a racist to know that their is a "white power structure" in the United States. And that it is slowly being degraded. While I do not know who Bill is referring to by "they," I can't see how what he said is racist.

That's true. The question of bigotry comes in the motivation.

Is it, "Oh noes, I lose my guarantee of power," or is it, "Oh Noes, brown people in charge?" Is he convinced that Christianity is superior? I would presume that you generally wouldn't be part of a religion if you didn't find it superior to the alternatives for reason X, but there's a difference between that and, "Christians are superior." Does he think that having your haploid holders on the outside makes you superior and that having internal haploid storage makes you inferior?

It's entirely possible he doesn't and while he may not be a bigot, he made a bigoted statement. It sounds cynical, but I tend to attribute very little of what a public figure says, especially a media one, to what they actually think.

Because I wholeheartedly believe that BillO is a whore. He may not actually embrace what he speaks, but he has an audience that'll eat it up, people who will rail against him and give him more publicity, and a parent company that can talk about how, "edgy," and, "non-liberal," and, "full of truthy goodness," they are.

Edited to add:

What the problem is, and what prompted my original post, is that there is at least one dumb f%$# out there who takes this to heart and sits it right next to The Turner Diaries or another who takes it and uses it to justify their own attitudes against other groups.

In the interest of free speech, we can not directly stop that s^%t, so we have to be the ones to rail against him. Some folks basically yell too loud and condemn everything while then turning around and doing the same thing by hurling race-based epithets at the group in power. Like, say, Sharpton. We shouldn't be shouting him down because then we're just a reflection of him and we're probably not going to be able to reach Stormfront, but we do have to call a spade a spade and reach the fence-sitters somehow.

And no, I haven't really got a solution, either.

[Tony]

I see: you admit you are wrong, and resort to an ad hom, directed at me, since you at a loss for words.


No, I admit that you are an irrationally defening racist comments and it's a waste of my time to argue with such idiocy.

Nice, I thought you were smarter than that, Tony.

LOL Whatever. If believing that makes you feel less racist. You're the one who can't grasp simple concepts or understand written english.

[Darth Rotor]

I'm pretty sure that Christian excludes Hindu, Jewish, Muslim, Zorastrian, and that which is not Christian. Kind of like Hindu excludes Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Zorastrian, and that which is not Hindu. Most religions do that. They tend to overlap and yet be disjoint groups at the same time. And that's before we get into the joy of sects.

Scientology, of course, doesn't exclude any other religion. It's compatible with every other religion.:D

So why is there a nice Jewish Senator from CT, (heck, more than one Jewish Senator) and plenty of Jewish Reps in Congress (Mr Waxman comes to mind) if the White Christian Power "excludes all other groups" as Tony tried to assert, and as you appear to be trying to suggest, or not. Your post is a bit unclear.

Do you have an answer to that.

It's a strawman. The "Christian" is what is irrelevant, but I guess you would have known that if I hadn't pointed it out, right? Your overlap isn't clear, though the joy of sects is. ;)

DR

[MilwaukeeMike]

But you do have to be racist, and anti-american, to lament it's decline.

So by your logic, anyone who acknowledges that people use the n-word are racist anti-Americans themselves.

What you said makes no sense. Saying that there is a white power structure and that it is declining is no different from saying global warming exists and its getting worse. It's simply pointing out something.

[Tony]

Hahaha, no he didn't.

You're a liar. He clearly did.

[MilwaukeeMike]

You're a liar. He clearly did.

Dont call me a liar. I didn't lie. Its my opinion what he said was not racist.

[latent aaaack]

If we let mass media demagagues and sensationalist mindless news shock stories decide the what, when, and how of every talking point about social and political issues the result is inevitably increasing levels of division and hatred, and more ratings and power to lowest common denominators like BO and fringe elements of society and thought. When someone smart and respectable has something to say about a social or political issue, then how about starting a thread on that and starting from there instead instead of letting demagagues dictate the terms of discussion.

[Tony]

So by your logic, anyone who acknowledges that people use the n-word are racist anti-Americans themselves.

Nominated for "The Forrest Gump Retard Award".

What you said makes no sense. Saying that there is a white power structure and that it is declining is no different from saying global warming exists and its getting worse. It's simply pointing out something.

LOL My post was obviously over your head. There is no point in discussing this with people who have a fundamental problem with reading. Goodbye.

[MilwaukeeMike]

I'm completely astonished that people see his support of the "white Christian power structure" as anything but racism and white supremacy.

At this point, I get the impression that if some popular conservative said "screw the n*****s--send 'em all back to Africa" there would still be people saying, "what? I can't see how that's racist!"

When did he or anyone else posting here say they support the white power structure. (Being a Christian I am in support of the Christian power structure, but I would never allow that to block people's rights from practicing other religions.)

All Bill-o said was he thinks he is apart of it. Thats not a racist statement.... Most people in D.C. are apart of it. That doesn't mean they support it.

[Tony]

Its my opinion what he said was not racist.

And some people hold the opinion that the earth is flat. The fact remains, it isn't. Just like the fact that a person who laments the decline of the white, christain male power structure is racist.

Edit: I just saw the post where you said you were a christain. That explains it, you do sympathize with O'Reilly's racism and xenophobia.

[MilwaukeeMike]

Nominated for "The Forrest Gump Retard Award".



LOL My post was obviously over your head. There is no point in discussing this with people who have a fundamental problem with reading. Goodbye.

Ok, so lets resort to childish name calling instead because someone has a differing opinion than you.... Bravo Tony... Bravo...

I on the other hand will not call you anything, even though a mired of acceptable slanderous ideas are popping up in my "Forest Gump Like Head."

:D Oh Tony, you are making my stomach hurt with laughter right now.

[LostAngeles]

So why is there a nice Jewish Senator from CT, (heck, more than one Jewish Senator) and plenty of Jewish Reps in Congress (Mr Waxman comes to mind) if the White Christian Power "excludes all other groups" as Tony tried to assert, and as you appear to be trying to suggest, or not. Your post is a bit unclear.

Do you have an answer to that.

It's a strawman. The "Christian" is what is irrelevant, but I guess you would have known that if I hadn't pointed it out, right? Your overlap isn't clear, though the joy of sects is. ;)

DR

Yep, them damn Jews are using the NWO to destroy White Male Christian Powers.

Ok, I kid. But the women and the non-whites and the non-Christians working their way into the government would be considered a weakening of the White Male Christian Power Structure. It's happening. And I'm cool with it. It'd be nice if our legislative body was more representative of the population as a whole (in which it would still be predominantly white and Christian), especially politcally, because I have doubts as to how partisan our country really is.*

And as far as overlaps in religions go, just about all say, "Treat others with respect, help the needy, and people who aren't in our group suck." Thankfully, non-fundamentalists are leaving off that last part more and more.

*Please remember that the poster has been a registered voter for only 9 years. (And has only been missing elections because she's still adjusting to this whole Elections are also in Spring b.s here)

[MilwaukeeMike]

And some people hold the opinion that the earth is flat. The fact remains, it isn't. Just like the fact that a person who laments the decline of the white, christain male power structure is racist.

Fact? I find that hard to believe... Fact? Fact? Facts are something concrete. What Billo-o said is subjective and determined by every persons differing opinion on whats racist and whats acceptable in society. How is it fact though.

Oh yes lets get some other beliefs I have out of the way.

The moon is made of spare ribs...

Tornado's only land in trailer parks.

White men cant dunk basketballs.

The Earth is the center of the Universe.

So on, so on..... Hope that clears some things up for you Tony.

[Tony]

Ok, so lets resort to childish name calling instead because someone has a differing opinion than you.... Bravo Tony... Bravo...


Your opinion is irrational. I gave it the ridicule it deserves. If you want to be treated like an adult, you need to start thinking like one.

I on the other hand will not call you anything, even though a mired of acceptable slanderous ideas are popping up in my "Forest Gump Like Head."

LOL You claim you're not going to call me anything, then procede to. Again, you're clearly a liar. Did you think no one will notice this?

Oh Tony, you are making my stomach hurt with laughter right now.

I seriously doubt it. You're simply saying this because you think it will have some effect on me. It doesn't, you're lying again.

[MilwaukeeMike]

And some people hold the opinion that the earth is flat. The fact remains, it isn't. Just like the fact that a person who laments the decline of the white, christain male power structure is racist.

Edit: I just saw the post where you said you were a christain. That explains it, you do sympathize with O'Reilly's racism and xenophobia.

I dont not sympathize with Bill-o at all. All I am saying was he didnt say something racist. I never said I supported the white power structure either. Now you are just making things up...

I actually said what Bill-o said was far right wing propaganda... Now you are the ignorant one. Just because I am a Christian does not mean I am racist, support Bill-o, have cultural xenophobia. It means I have similar moral views of the world the bible has... But in no way is a indication of my political party. Shame on you... You just showed the hypocrisy in your arguments.

[Darth Rotor]

Yep, them damn Jews are using the NWO to destroy White Male Christian Powers.
*chortle*
Ok, I kid. But the women and the non-whites and the non-Christians working their way into the government would be considered a weakening of the White Male Christian Power Structure. It's happening.
It's been happening for two generations, at least. What is happening is that the "power structure" changes its face. It has been for as long as I've been politically aware. (Late 1960's.) How else could Gonzo and Condi get cabinet positions?
It'd be nice if our legislative body was more representative of the population as a whole (in which it would still be predominantly white and Christian),
touche on the last, but . . .

. . . if that were the case, we'd only be allowed two Jewish Senators. Is this quota sort of deal you envision fair? What if eleven of the best / winning candidates are Jewish? Should only two get to go to the Senate? I think not. ;)
And as far as overlaps in religions go, just about all say, "Treat others with respect, help the needy, and people who aren't in our group suck." Thankfully, non-fundamentalists are leaving off that last part more and more.
Aye. We need more of that, and few of those damned "splitters!"
*Please remember that the poster has been a registered voter for only 9 years. (And has only been missing elections because she's still adjusting to this whole Elections are also in Spring b.s here)
Vote once, and watch for the silver lining. Vote twice, and watch for the police! ;) (WC Fields, from his book "Fields For President")

DR

[Tony]

Fact? I find that hard to believe... Fact? Fact?

Of course you do, it contradicts your worldview. Big surprise there.

As for me, I've come to O'Reilly defense in the past when people (thaiboxerken) called him racist, but this is something that is simply indefensible and which has changed my opinion of O'Reilly.

What Billo-o said is subjective and determined by every persons differing opinion on whats racist and whats acceptable in society.

No it isnt. His lament matches the very definition of white-supremacist, you just don't like it and are trying to use a post-modern "nothing is absolute" defense.

[MilwaukeeMike]

LOL You claim you're not going to call me anything, then procede to. Again, you're clearly a liar. Did you think no one will notice this?

Where did I call you anything here, let alone lie. I simply said I could call you a lot of things but wont.

You know what you remind me of.. That SNL skit where Will Ferrell is playing Janet Reno and has a show Janet Reno's dance party where he continues to ask people questions and then cuts them off and replies they are dirty liars. Stop saying im lying, its getting old. What am I lying about?

I thought my childish thought was too low for you to continue talking to me. You know Tony, in life your are going to encounter people who have differing opinions than you. I think your opinions, while noted, are blowing Bill-o comment out of proportion. Do I think you are less of a person... No... Am I going to sit here and talk down to you like you are a child, (What you are doing to me) No... Im going to understand you think differently from me...

[Cleon]

When did he or anyone else posting here say they support the white power structure. (Being a Christian I am in support of the Christian power structure, but I would never allow that to block people's rights from practicing other religions.)

All Bill-o said was he thinks he is apart of it. Thats not a racist statement.... Most people in D.C. are apart of it. That doesn't mean they support it.

This must be one of those times when someone is looking for any loophole to get them out of the hole they dug for themselves.

BillO is pissed off because the "far-left" wants to "break it down."

Let me repeat:

The fact that the "far left" wants to break down the white, Christian, male power structure pisses BillO off.

So it's fair to say that he supports the white, Christian, power structure. Otherwise, he wouldn't be pissed off by the "far left's" efforts, now would he?

[Darth Rotor]

No, I admit that you are an irrationally defening racist comments and it's a waste of my time to argue with such idiocy.



LOL Whatever. If believing that makes you feel less racist. You're the one who can't grasp simple concepts or understand written english.
Magua understands English very well, and also knows hyperbole and BS when he sees it. Your posts were full of it. Your resort to ad hom, yet again underscores your BS.

DR

[LostAngeles]

*chortle*

It's been happening for two generations, at least. What is happening is that the "power structure" changes its face. It has been for as long as I've been politically aware. (Late 1960's.) How else could Gonzo and Condi get cabinet positions?

touche on the last, but . . .

. . . if that were the case, we'd only be allowed two Jewish Senators. Is this quota sort of deal you envision fair? What if eleven of the best / winning candidates are Jewish? Should only two get to go to the Senate? I think not. ;)

Aye. We need more of that, and few of those damned "splitters!"

Vote once, and watch for the silver lining. Vote twice, and watch for the police! ;) (WC Fields, from his book "Fields For President")

DR

I disagree with quotas myself. If we had a legislature filled with white Christian males who accurately represented the ideals and interests of their constituents and did their job in accordance with such, I'd be delighted. They could be polka-dotted Hindu trans-gendereds and if they they accurately represented the ideals and interests of their constituents and did their job in accordance with such, I'd be delighted. If we had a rainbow Congress that behaves as Congress does now, I'd still be looking for the first rocket off of this place that isn't coming back. If we could have both, that'd be nice too.

So you're right. It should be less of a rainbow Congress when it comes to color, religion, sex, etc, and better a Congress that represents the nation ideologically.

[Tony]

I dont not sympathize with Bill-o at all.


So when you said this:

Being a Christian I am in support of the Christian power structure

You were lying?

All I am saying was he didnt say something racist.

He lamented the dismanteling of the white power structure. That is racist. You're splitting hairs, and failing to think critically when you ignore the implication and context of his words.

It means I have similar moral views of the world the bible has...

So then you are a racist, genocidalist and religous supremacist. You also support slavery and baby killing. Thanks for proving my point.

But in no way is a indication of my political party.

Bwaahahahahaha. I never said anything about political parties. Again, I'm tired of wasting my time with people who have a fundamental problem with reading. Goodbye.

[MilwaukeeMike]

Of course you do, it contradicts your worldview. Big surprise there.

As for me, I've come to O'Reilly defense in the past when people (thaiboxerken) called him racist, but this is something that is simply indefensible and which has changed my opinion of O'Reilly.



No it isnt. His lament matches the very definition of white-supremacist, you just don't like it and are trying to use a post-modern "nothing is absolute" defense.

I think you are confusing his far right wing propaganda for racism.

white supremacy
–noun the belief, theory, or doctrine that the white race is superior to all other races, esp. the black race, and should therefore retain control in all relationships.

I think Bill-o was pointing out that there is some form of a white power structure (Maybe because the majority of politicians are white) and tried to politicize it by saying democratic organizations are undermining it with their own agendas. He never said white people are superior and that the white power structure should be in control. He is simply, again, pointing out it exists and politicized his opinion that its degrading. Im sorry, but I don't find that to be racist. However, I dont think he should be politicizing something like this. The fact that their is a white power structure is not a good thing if it is being used to discriminate against minorities.

[Tailgater]

I think he's more of the "I want to have the country club to myself" bigot, and not so much white supremist.

[Darth Rotor]

This must be one of those times when someone is looking for any loophole to get them out of the hole they dug for themselves.

BillO is pissed off because the "far-left" wants to "break it down."

Let me repeat:

The fact that the "far left" wants to break down the white, Christian, male power structure pisses BillO off.

So it's fair to say that he supports the white, Christian, power structure. Otherwise, he wouldn't be pissed off by the "far left's" efforts, now would he?
Question 1: If Bill O is a part of (he presumes) this White Christian Power Structure, why is it wrong for him to support it? (His "far left" bogeyman we'll get to in a minute.)

Question 2: If Jesse Jackson is a part of the Black Political Power Structure, why would it be wrong for him to support that? Would it be wrong for him to warn that WASPS, the Far Right, or in an older version of Jesse-speak, hymies, are trying to undermine or defeat it, his political bloc?

Question 3: Who do you think Reilly's "far left" bogeyman is? I am guessing "liberals," or anyone in the opposed political position. Do you think there is more than that is his chosen bogeyman? He's been ranting against the far left, and liberals, and leftists, for as long as I recall hearing his schtick. As I've not seen his show for over a year, has something changed?

DR

[Cleon]

I think you are confusing his far right wing propaganda for racism.

white supremacy
–noun the belief, theory, or doctrine that the white race is superior to all other races, esp. the black race, and should therefore retain control in all relationships.

And Bill is upset that whatever white control exists is being dismantled by the "far left."

Ergo, he's a white supremacist. Maybe not as nasty as the Klan or the Nazis, but a white supremacist nonetheless. By your own definition, even.

[MilwaukeeMike]

So then you are a racist, genocidalist and religous supremacist. You also support slavery and baby killing. Thanks for proving my point.


Now you are actually starting to really make me mad. You are personally attacking me now, and that is just inappropriate.

I said I believe in the MORAL views of the bible. Like the 10 commandments..

Thow shall not steal, stuff like that. How is racist, genocidalist and religous supremacist moral.

I also explained, which you didnt quote, that while I am a in favor of the Christian power structure, I do not want to impede on other people right to practice what ever religion they want.

You are making things up again...

[Tailgater]

I think Bill-o was pointing out that there is some form of a white power structure (Maybe because the majority of politicians are white) and tried to politicize it by saying democratic organizations are undermining it with their own agendas. He never said white people are superior and that the white power structure should be in control. He is simply, again, pointing out it exists and politicized his opinion that its degrading. Im sorry, but I don't find that to be racist. However, I dont think he should be politicizing something like this. The fact that their is a white power structure is not a good thing if it is being used to discriminate against minorities.

Sorry Mike. I don't agree with the way Tony swings his **** around when he finds a christian to hate, but the fact that Bill followed what he said by telling Mcain they must have "caps" kind of puts his personal opinion into the discussion.

[Cleon]

Question 1: If Bill O is a part of (he presumes) this White Christian Power Structure, why is it wrong for him to support it? (His "far left" bogeyman we'll get to in a minute.)

Uh....Because it's racist and despicable?

I seriously don't think this question came across the way you meant it to.


Question 2: If Jesse Jackson is a part of the Black Political Power Structure, why would it be wrong for him to support that? Would it be wrong for him to warn that WASPS, the Far Right, or in an older version of Jesse-speak, hymies, are trying to undermine or defeat it, his political bloc?

I really don't care about Jackson. Feel free to beat that horse until it's dead, though.


Question 3: Who do you think Reilly's "far left" bogeyman is? I am guessing "liberals," or anyone in the opposed political position. Do you think there is more than that is his chosen bogeyman? He's been ranting against the far left, and liberals, and leftists, for as long as I recall hearing his schtick. As I've not seen his show for over a year, has something changed?

Well, he specified the New York Times, which is amusing in its own right.

Did you and Mike actually read the OP before your knees jerked?

[MilwaukeeMike]

Sorry Mike. I don't agree with the way Tony swings his **** around when he finds a christian to hate, but the fact that Bill followed what he said by telling Mcain they must have "caps" kind of puts his personal opinion into the discussion.

I really wish we could see the entire transcript of the conversation to put this into perspective of what they were talking about.

Thank you, up to that point I didn't mind Tony, even though he was calling me names.

But to attack me personally because I believe in the moral views of the BIBLE is just crazy. He is practicing the very thing he is claiming Bill-o is doing... This time it just isnt a race, but a religion...

What Tony did is not different than what a KKK member does when they describe a black person. Totally unacceptable Tony.

[Darth Rotor]

Sorry Mike. I don't agree with the way Tony swings his **** around when he finds a christian to hate, but the fact that Bill followed what he said by telling Mcain they must have "caps" kind of puts his personal opinion into the discussion.
As I understand it, the "cap" referred to the immimgration figure that is officially sanctioned. Maybe he meant "capping" the number of people who get amnesty in this latest bill?

From the excerpt, I am a bit confused at what he is referring to.

Someone above noted the irony that a lot of immigrants from South of the Border bring their Catholic with them, though not all do. Aren't Catholics Christian? :cool:

DR

[Tony]

Now you are actually starting to really make me mad. You are personally attacking me now, and that is just inappropriate.

How? You said you believe in the moral views of the bible. The god in the bible clearly exhorts his subjects to engage in the acts I described.

I said I believe in the MORAL views of the bible. Like the 10 commandments...

So you're against free speech, capitalism and freedom of religion too.

I also explained, which you didnt quote, that while I am a in favor of the Christian power structure

I did quote that.

I do not want to impede on other people right to practice what ever religion they want.

Right, you just prefer christians to lord over those people.

[Tailgater]

As I understand it, the "cap" referred to the immimgration figure that is officially sanctioned. Maybe he meant "capping" the number of people who get amnesty in this latest bill?

From the excerpt, I am a bit confused at what he is referring to.

Someone above noted the irony that a lot of immigrants from South of the Border bring their Catholic with them, though not all do. Aren't Catholics Christian? :cool:

DR

I was confused about what the cap was for too. Either way, it is a comment on slowing down the voting block these people will become.

I would like to see the transcript up to this point.

[Cleon]

But to attack me personally because I believe in the moral views of the BIBLE is just crazy. He is practicing the very thing he is claiming Bill-o is doing... This time it just isnt a race, but a religion...

If you declare yourself to believe in the "moral views of the Bible," you're going to take some heat on this board. Because the "moral views of the Bible," when taken literally, do include endorsing such things as slavery, genocide, rape, and so forth.

I was considering pointing this out myself, though my intent was to do so a little less caustically than Tony's approach.


What Tony did is not different than what a KKK member does when they describe a black person. Totally unacceptable Tony.

See, now this is hyperbole.

[Darth Rotor]

Uh....Because it's racist and despicable?

I seriously don't think this question came across the way you meant it to.



I really don't care about Jackson. Feel free to beat that horse until it's dead, though.



Well, he specified the New York Times, which is amusing in its own right.

Did you and Mike actually read the OP before your knees jerked?
I read it, and I read the link.

I want to know why he is a racist to identify himself by race (correctly) and religion(correctly), when a great many people identify themselves by race, and or religion, and them doing so isn't racist.

That is why Jesse is an appropriate analogue, in the political sense. O'Reilly is indeed addressing race and politics, albeit clumsily at best, which is allowed to anyone commenting on politics. Race has not evaporated, damn the bad luck, as a political issue.

Note: playing the race card is, in my view, a load of crap, but it seems to be the coin of the realm anymore, sad but true.

So, why is it, in Cleon's view, as I read your last post, that the one is racist and the other is not?

As I stated above, O Reilly looks to be race baiting.

As to the Times, I note that the Left refers to it as a NeoCon shill rag, the Right refers to it as a Leftist Rag, and I find it a failing newspaper that was once great.

DR

[ponderingturtle]

Where is your evidence that he was being racist. We have one little snippet where he mentions the white power structure... And how he thinks foreign nationals are flooding in to degrade it.

How is that racist? Did he say inappropriate things about a specific group or race?


SO saying that the White christian male is the natural superior of all other people is not racist or against any other religion or even sexist because it does not target any group?

[pgwenthold]

This must be one of those times when someone is looking for any loophole to get them out of the hole they dug for themselves.

BillO is pissed off because the "far-left" wants to "break it down."

Let me repeat:

The fact that the "far left" wants to break down the white, Christian, male power structure pisses BillO off.

So it's fair to say that he supports the white, Christian, power structure. Otherwise, he wouldn't be pissed off by the "far left's" efforts, now would he?

To state it a little differently, anyone who truly supports equal opportunities for all would not have a problem with the breaking of the "white, Christian male power structure." Any structure that favors a selected class is not going to provide equal opportunity.

Now, what do you call a person who defends a power structure that does not give equal opportunity to all races, other than racist? Isn't the "discrimination on the basis of race" pretty much the textbook application of racism?

Now throw sexism and religious discrimination into the mix...

[ponderingturtle]

America is getting screwed up by PC just as much as it's getting screwed up by the anti-PC. I have no idea where Mr. Tased-for-being-a-jackass is now, but I recall him screaming later that he was racially-profiled for being Iranian when the report that went over about him was, "white male." He ruins it for the black males in Mission Hill (since I mentioned Charles Stuart earlier). At the same time, I got asked how my Korean grandmother can be racist when she married a black man and had his children. (I'll let you figure that one out on your own.)

There are two possibilities, either she was racist agianst groups other than blacks or held your grandfather as an exception. Well three I guess, she could have hated him too I guess.

[MilwaukeeMike]

How? You said you believe in the moral views of the bible. The god in the bible clearly exhorts his subjects to engage in the acts I described.

So you're against free speech, capitalism and freedom of religion too.

I did quote that.

Right, you just prefer christians to lord over those people.

Ugghh... You are an idiot... Im going to go there... I was trying to resort from calling you anything but this is too much.

I believe in the moral views of the bible by todays standards. That means im against all of the things you so idiotically mentioned before and so easily labeled me.

Give me examples of how the 10 commandments are against free speech, capitalism, and freedom of religion.. You are a moron, I said that I never want to impede on peoples right to practice religion... Duuuhhhh, that sounds like freedom of religion Forest.

Obviously you are the intolerant one when it comes to religion... Lets save your pathetic religious views for another thread.. Ill gladly start one. Lets get back to Bill-o if we could.

[Cleon]

I read it, and I read the link.

I want to know why he is a racist to identify himself by race (correctly) and religion(correctly), when a great many people identify themselves by race, and or religion, and them doing so isn't racist.

Ah, now I understand. The strawman wasn't clear from your last post. BillO is not racist because he said he's white, or Christian, or male, any more than I'm a racist for saying that I'm a Russian Jew.

He's a racist (not to mention a sexist--but we already knew that) because he supports keeping white, male, Christians in power. He's pissed because the "far left" is, according to him, trying to "break down" the white, male, Christian power structure.

His little diatribe was nothing more than a slightly longer-worded version of the slogan "white power!"

[MilwaukeeMike]

SO saying that the White christian male is the natural superior of all other people is not racist or against any other religion or even sexist because it does not target any group?

He never said white people were better than anyone else or the natural superior. He pointed out that their is a white power structure... Just as there is a black power structure, Muslim power structure, women power structure... so on... Its not wrong to explain there is a white power structure.. As I said before, any of these power structures are bad if they discriminate against other races and minorities.

[LostAngeles]

There are two possibilities, either she was racist agianst groups other than blacks or held your grandfather as an exception. Well three I guess, she could have hated him too I guess.

First one.

You get the cookie.

That I wish I had.

[Cleon]

He never said white people were better than anyone else or the natural superior. He pointed out that their is a white power structure...


....AND he is pissed off because the "far left" is, according to him, trying to get rid of it. You keep forgetting that part.

[MilwaukeeMike]

Ah, now I understand. The strawman wasn't clear from your last post. BillO is not racist because he said he's white, or Christian, or male, any more than I'm a racist for saying that I'm a Russian Jew.

He's a racist (not to mention a sexist--but we already knew that) because he supports keeping white, male, Christians in power. He's pissed because the "far left" is, according to him, trying to "break down" the white, male, Christian power structure.

His little diatribe was nothing more than a slightly longer-worded version of the slogan "white power!"

Cleon, I think you are forgetting that there are more than one power structure operating in the U.S... I think politicians like to call them voter basses, or what ever. There is a very powerful black power structure alive and well in the United States.

[Darth Rotor]

Ah, now I understand. The strawman wasn't clear from your last post. BillO is not racist because he said he's white, or Christian, or male, any more than I'm a racist for saying that I'm a Russian Jew.

He's a racist (not to mention a sexist--but we already knew that) because he supports keeping white, male, Christians in power. He's pissed because the "far left" is, according to him, trying to "break down" the white, male, Christian power structure.

His little diatribe was nothing more than a slightly longer-worded version of the slogan "white power!"
I follow you so far.

Were those activists who clenched their fists and hollared "black power" also racists? I grew up in the middle of that, Cleon. (ETA, sorry) .

Is it wrong for someone to want to be in power? Let's suppose that Bill, and his self identified group, are "in power." I want to understand what is wrong for wanting political power, since the quest for political power, the struggle for it, is the entire point of the political process, just as the drive for political empowerment, and thus more power, among the black and Hispanic blocs is a part and parcel to the political process.

Why is he wrong to want his power bloc to hold, or retain, or increase, its influence? Every other power bloc wants the same thing.

What irritates me is that the trend toward (or at least the outward perception of that trend) power blocs breaking on racial lines is on the rise, which I don't think bodes well for our future. Trying to blame O'Reilly for that by labeling him racist strikes me as hypocritical, given the current playing field in American politics.

That's the inverse of Dr King's dream, which I think is the path to a better future.

DR

[Tony]

Ugghh... You are an idiot... Im going to go there... I was trying to resort from calling you anything but this is too much.


I consider being called an idiot by a christian a badge of honor.

I believe in the moral views of the bible by todays standards. That means im against all of the things you so idiotically mentioned before and so easily labeled me.

So then you're against the moral standards in the Bible.

Give me examples of how the 10 commandments are against free speech

"Thou shall not use the lord's name in vain"

capitalism

"Thou shall not covet"

and freedom of religion.

"Thou shall not have any god before me" "Thou shall remember the sabbath and keep it holy"

You are a moron

So says the christian.

Obviously you are the intolerant one when it comes to religion...

I'm intolerant of fundies and religious supremacists, as you self-indentified you were. Also, if you don't remember, it was your kind that attacked my country on 9/11. I have many reasons not to tolerate you.

[Tailgater]

Cleon, I think you are forgetting that there are more than one power structure operating in the U.S... I think politicians like to call them voter basses, or what ever. There is a very powerful black power structure alive and well in the United States.

And if one of them said, "we must cap the number of white people coming in to this country to preserve our power structure", that would be ok with you?

[Cleon]

Cleon, I think you are forgetting that there are more than one power structure operating in the U.S... I think politicians like to call them voter basses, or what ever. There is a very powerful black power structure alive and well in the United States.

Irrelevant.

[MilwaukeeMike]

....AND he is pissed off because the "far left" is, according to him, trying to get rid of it. You keep forgetting that part.

No I am not forgetting it. I am looking at it fully understanding that it is not the only power structure in this country. He is not being racist because he didnt degrade any group, minority, or race. If he simply is stating that the power structure that he claims he is apart of is being undermined by democrats, thats not racist. Its not like he said that he is angry the white power structure is declining and while the black power structure is gaining ground.

I mean look at Don Immus.. Who got him fired. The black power structure, and I am glad they put up such a stink about it. Don Immus did say a racist thing; he targeted a certain group of minorities and used a stereotypical term about that specific minority group to degrade them as people.

[Tailgater]

double post

[Cleon]

Is it wrong for someone to want to be in power? Let's suppose that Bill, and his self identified group, are "in power." I want to understand what is wrong for wanting political power, since the quest for political power, the struggle for it, is the entire point of the political process, just as the drive for political empowerment among the black and Hispanic communities is a part and parcel to the political process.

Why is he wrong to want his power bloc to hold, or retain, or increase, its influence? Every other power bloc wants the same thing. What irritates me is that the trend toward (or at least the outward perception of that trend) power blocs breaking on racial lines is on the rise, which I don't think bodes well for our future.



Are you seriously asking why white supremacy is wrong?

[MilwaukeeMike]

Irrelevant.

Not really, Don Immus?

[brodski]

Cleon, I think you are forgetting that there are more than one power structure operating in the U.S... I think politicians like to call them voter basses, or what ever. There is a very powerful black power structure alive and well in the United States.

But that reality is irrelivant as to what BOR believes.
To take an extreme example, if a neo-nazi belies in "ZOG" (the "Zionist Oppressive Government") and wants it destroyed, he's an anti-semitic arse regardless of the fact that ZOG does not exist. From his words BOR belies that the USA is run by a white male Christian group, and any attempt to change this is wrong.

Note I am not calling BOR a neo-nazi, he is however a racialist.

[joobz]

Ah, now I understand. The strawman wasn't clear from your last post. BillO is not racist because he said he's white, or Christian, or male, any more than I'm a racist for saying that I'm a Russian Jew.

He's a racist (not to mention a sexist--but we already knew that) because he supports keeping white, male, Christians in power. He's pissed because the "far left" is, according to him, trying to "break down" the white, male, Christian power structure.

His little diatribe was nothing more than a slightly longer-worded version of the slogan "white power!"
I'm not certain that is the case:
BO's claim smacks of the "fear of other", which is the primary motivator to racism. Racism requires a belief that 1 race is better than another. I didn't get that from his statement.

What I think is most telling in BO's claim is his statement of the liberal groups trying to tear down the current power structure. That's motivated by a fear of change, which is inherently small minded. He's afraid to think what an america that is not mostly white will look like and what his place in that america will be. It's a fear stemming from insecurity. He's aware that if he actually had to play on a level playing field where he had to compete with everyone, he wouldn't have his job. He's just not smart enough.

[Tailgater]

I'm intolerant of fundies and religious supremacists, as you self-indentified you were. Also, if you don't remember, it was your kind that attacked my country on 9/11. I have many reasons not to tolerate you.

It's sad I even have to agree with you in this thread. That is about the most ignorant thing I've read all day.

[Darth Rotor]

Are you seriously asking why white supremacy is wrong?
No, it is you, and couple of others who are conflating White Supremacy with this matter, not me, based on Mehpisto's barb.

Do you understand the problem here? You are extrapolating to an extreme, hyperbole, and you are asking me to take it seriously.

Sorry, I don't, even though Bill O'Reilly deliberately pushed a race button, which has become a common rhetorical device in American political parlance, or hadn't you noticed?

Yes, it's low grade crap, but for you to extrapolate that to "White Supremacist" tells me you don't understand White Supremacists, which given what I read of your CT forum posts, you surely do.

Why the deliberately obtuse ploy?

ETA: Joobs and brodski made some good comments, but I recall the last time I pointed out to you the difference between a racialist and a racist, you stuck your fingers in your ears, I didn't bother to bring that into the conversation.

DR

[Cleon]

No I am not forgetting it.

You're right, you're not. You're ignoring it because it's inconveneint.


I am looking at it fully understanding that it is not the only power structure in this country.

Which is, again, irrelevant. O'Reilly wasn't talking about any other "power structures," and you know it. He was being very specific; white, Christian males are in power, and he wants to keep it that way.


He is not being racist because he didnt degrade any group, minority, or race.

If he simply is stating that the power structure that he claims he is apart of is being undermined by democrats, thats not racist. Its not like he said that he is angry the white power structure is declining and while the black power structure is gaining ground.

No, he said essentially that the "far left" is helping brown people take over from the good white Christian males, and he's angry about it.

You're digging for excuses for BillO.


I mean look at Don Immus.. Who got him fired. The black power structure, and I am glad they put up such a stink about it. Don Immus did say a racist thing; he targeted a certain group of minorities and used a stereotypical term about that specific minority group to degrade them as people.

Irrelevant.

[Cleon]

No, it is you, and couple of others who are conflating White Supremacy with this matter, not me, based on Mehpisto's barb.

Nope, based on BillO's own statement, which lamented that the "far left" is trying to "break down" the white, Christian, male hold on power.

A "White Supremacist" is someone, by definition, who believes that white people should be in charge.

By his own statement, BillO believes exactly that.

[MilwaukeeMike]

I consider being called an idiot by a christian a badge of honor.

So then you're against the moral standards in the Bible.

"Thou shall not use the lord's name in vain"

"Thou shall not covet"

"Thou shall not have any god before me" "Thou shall remember the sabbath and keep it holy"

So says the christian.

I'm intolerant of fundies and religious supremacists, as you self-indentified you were. Also, if you don't remember, it was your kind that attacked my country on 9/11. I have many reasons not to tolerate you.

Wow... Hey pal watch your mouth... Born and raised in Wisconsin.

Good examples... Not really...

"Thou shall not use the lord's name in vain" ---- Yah simply don't swear when you say God... That is so wrong... (sarcastic)

"Thou shall not covet thy neighbor" --- You forgot a part. So you are perfectly fine with people being extremely jealous of what you have...

"Thou shall not have any god before me" "Thou shall remember the sabbath and keep it holy" --- That simply says an individual is not supposed to worship another god. That doesn't mean because I worship one god, you cant worship what ever you want.

I'm intolerant of fundies and religious supremacists, as you self-identified you were. Also, if you don't remember, it was your kind that attacked my country on 9/11. I have many reasons not to tolerate you.

I find it very offensive that you categorize me with the radical Islamic fundamentalist that attack MY country too... A**hole.... In no way am I a radical Christian... I hold myself to moral and ethical principals to try and make myself a better person. In no way have I ever told someone what religion they should practice or how to live their life. You are a disgrace my friend... An utter disgrace.. How dare you call a fellow American someone no better than the terrorists that attacked this country. If I saw you in person I would drop you to the very ground you stand on... What you said is offensive to me beyond belief..

[Tony]

It's sad I even have to agree with you in this thread. That is about the most ignorant thing I've read all day.

Ohh? We weren't attacked by religious fundies on 9/11? It's ignorant to not tolerate those who have a violent intolerance for you? Please tell me what I have wrong, I want to rectify my ignorance.

[Darth Rotor]

Nope, based on BillO's own statement, which lamented that the "far left" is trying to "break down" the white, Christian, male hold on power.

A "White Supremacist" is someone, by definition, who believes that white people should be in charge.

By his own statement, BillO believes exactly that.
OK, let's see how far this poor definition of yours goes.

FDR was a White Supremacist. Right? By your definition, he was.

Is that all a White Supremacist is? I think not.

How is that different from, or is it, wanting to be in the most influential power bloc? That he added race to his definition is, in your defense, not innocent, but it hardly fulfills the requirement to be "a White Supremacist."

The problem with the thread, again, is that O Reilly's posited group is far more narrow than White, and hell, it excludes, or seems to, anyone liberal, which a lot of whites are, but that's a digression. His Christian also excludes a whole lot of whites. He also left out all of the women.

DR

[Tailgater]

Ohh? We weren't attacked by religious fundies on 9/11? It's ignorant to not tolerate those who have a violent intolerance for you? Please tell me what I have wrong, I want to rectify my ignorance.

Your right. They did. Not the person you are attacking who tried several times not to fight back.

[Cleon]

OK, let's see how far this poor definition of yours goes.

FDR was a White Supremacist. Right? By your definition, he was.

Is that all a White Supremacist is? I think not.

How is that different from, or is it, wanting to be in the most influential power bloc? That he added race to his definition is, in your defense, not innocent, but it hardly fulfills the requirement to be "a White Supremacist."

The problem with the thread, again, is that O Reilly's posited group is far more narrow than White, and hell, it excludes, or seems to, anyone liberal, which a lot of whites are, but that's a digression. His Christian also excludes a whole lot of whites. He also left out all of the women.

DR

You're right, the fact that he's a Christian-supremacist and a male-supremacist somehow means that he's not a white-supremacist. :rolleyes:

Look, you can split all the hairs you want, but at the end of the day BillO believes that white, Christian, males should be in power, and he's angry at people who don't agree.

You can defend it, twist it, turn it, try to dig as many excuses up as you can, but still there it is: BillO's a racist. By his own words.

[Tony]

Wow... Hey pal watch your mouth... Born and raised in Wisconsin.


Are you trying to garner my sympathy?

"Thou shall not use the lord's name in vain" ---- Yah simply don't swear when you say God... That is so wrong... (sarcastic)

IE against freedom of speech.

"Thou shall not covet thy neighbor" --- You forgot a part. So you are perfectly fine with people being extremely jealous of what you have...

Actually it's "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's." You forgot that part. I just said "covet" to keep it simple. And there wouldn't be capitalism without some form of coveting.

"Thou shall not have any god before me" "Thou shall remember the sabbath and keep it holy" --- That simply says an individual is not supposed to worship another god.

Exactly!! It's against freedom of religion.

That doesn't mean because I worship one god, you cant worship what ever you want.

I know. It means that commandment is antithetical to the idea of freedom of religion.

I find it very offensive that you categorize me with the radical Islamic fundamentalist that attack MY country too... A**hole.... In no way am I a radical Christian...

If I have mischaracterized you as a christian fundamenalist, I am truly sorry.

How dare you call a fellow American someone no better than the terrorists that attacked this country.

Do you show the same indignation when republicans and conservatives do the same to liberals and democrats?

If I saw you in person I would drop you to the very ground you stand on...

Are you normally violent?

[MilwaukeeMike]

You know what Tony, I have no problem with your differing views of religion. I personally think they are very skewed and your facts about Christianity are pretty messed up. But hey, we live in America where you have every right to say what ever you want about my religion and views.

What really angers me and makes me want to hit you in the face with a blunt object is when you throw me into the category with the people who murdered over 3,000 Americans. That is just low my friend. It has no purpose here and does nothing but to lower your credibility. And how you called it MY country. And I am the one who is a fundie closed to ideas. You may not see it but you said MY country when referring to 9/11... As if the rest of us A) dont belong to live here, or B) hold different views than you so therefore shouldnt be living here.

I actually cried on 9/11, cried in anger something like that happened and almost joind the marines. For you to group me in with the crazies that attacked OUR country is just said. Have a good life Tony. Im done debating any of your posts.

[MilwaukeeMike]

If I have mischaracterized you as a christian fundamenalist, I am truly sorry.

Thank you. I am sorry if I over reacted. I respect that you have a different view of religion than I do and it's that respect and understanding that makes this country great.

Do you show the same indignation when republicans and conservatives do the same to liberals and democrats?

Yes, I think there is no room in politics for religion, but people use it for their own benefit. I think that is completely wrong.

Are you normally violent?

No, I am not a violent person. Being grouped with the nut bags that attacked us was just too overwhelming.

[Darth Rotor]

You're right, the fact that he's a Christian-supremacist and a male-supremacist somehow means that he's not a white-supremacist. :rolleyes:

You can defend it, twist it, turn it, try to dig as many excuses up as you can, but still there it is: BillO's a racist. By his own words.
I note your continued use of loaded language, supremacist. Appeal to emotion. Consistent with that, I note that, again, you are keen on the word "racist." You really like to fling it. This isn't the first time.

I have re read my posts, your posts, the excerpt.

You object to BOR's politics (not an uncommon position). You seem to believe you have found a crack through which you can ram the "racist" epithet, so you can call him a name and feel justified.

Good for you. Buy yourself a beer.

For all I know, Bill O'Reilly might be a racist, and hell, Meph's crack might actually be true: Bill O"Reilly might be a closet White Supremacist.

It will take more than your partisan sniping to convince me.

That BOR is in a position were I consider the question seriously, which I think this little gaffe and this discussion now warrants, is a strike against him. But I am not going to watch his show in order to find out. I have better use of my time.

I already think he's a garden variety asshat.

DR

[Cleon]

I note that, again, you are keen on the word "racist." You really like to fling it. This isn't the first time.

I have re read my posts, your posts, the excerpt.

You object to BOR's politics (not an uncommon position). You seem to believe you have found a crack through which you can ram the "racist" epithet, so you can call him a name and feel justified.

Good for you.

For all I know, Bill O'Reilly might be a racist, and hell, Meph's crack might actually be true: Bill O"Reilly might be a closet White Supremacist.

It will take more than your partisan sniping to convince me.


:rolleyes:

[Tony]

I personally think they are very skewed and your facts about Christianity are pretty messed up.

My facts are based on a literal reading of the bible. If my facts are messed up, then so is the bible

What really angers me and makes me want to hit you in the face with a blunt object is when you throw me into the category with the people who murdered over 3,000 Americans. That is just low my friend. It has no purpose here and does nothing but to lower your credibility.

Again. Do you get just as angry when republicans and conservatives do the same to democrats and liberals? Or is it only wrong when it's done to you? Also, you ignored my apology for characterizing you as a christian fundamentalist.

As if the rest of us A) dont belong to live here, or B) hold different views than you so therefore shouldnt be living here.

You're right. I believe that the idea of america, a place where all people can live how they want, worship how they want, love who they want, believe what they want, say what they want and wear what they want is totally antithetical to the fundamentalist ideology.

I actually cried on 9/11, cried in anger something like that happened and almost joind the marines. For you to group me in with the crazies that attacked OUR country is just said.

Did you just ignore my apology? Again, I'm sorry for assuming you were a christian fundamenalist.

[MilwaukeeMike]

My facts are based on the bible. If my facts are messed up, then so is the bible



Again. Do you get just as angry when republicans and conservatives do the same to democrats and liberals? Or is it only wrong when it's done to you? Also, you ignored my apology for characterizing you as a christian fundamentalist.



You're right. I believe that the idea of america, a place where all people can live how they want, worship how they want, love who they want, believe what they want, say what they want and wear what they want is totally antithetical to the fundamentalist ideology.



Did you just ignore my apology? Again, I'm sorry for assuming you were a christian fundamenalist.

Sorry, read post 102... I wrote all this stuff before I saw your apology.

[MilwaukeeMike]

Lets all just agree Bill-o is a major asshat...

[LostAngeles]

Lets all just agree Bill-o is a major asshat...

Wait, are you actually asking me to rub the two braincells together necessary to come to that conclusion? :D

[MilwaukeeMike]

Wait, are you actually asking me to rub the two braincells together necessary to come to that conclusion? :D

From the beginning of this thread I have stated I think Bill-o is a big idiot. But I caution calling him a racist based on one fuzzily (Not sure if thats a word) used quote; its a very powerful word these days and no one deserves be called it unless they truly are racist. Even Bill-o I hate to say..:jaw-dropp At least right now.

[Tony]

Your right. They did. Not the person you are attacking who tried several times not to fight back.

I've extended my apologies to Mike. Am I still ignorant?

[LostAngeles]

From the beginning of this thread I have stated I think Bill-o is a big idiot. But I caution calling him a racist based on one fuzzily (Not sure if thats a word) used quote; its a very powerful word these days and no one deserves be called it unless they truly are racist. Even Bill-o I hate to say..:jaw-dropp At least right now.

Oh, I know you have. I was just making a joke that it doesn't take a lot to come to that conclusion. Personally, on his best day, he's still a giant whore, so far as I'm concerned.

I don't think anyone in this thread was arguing that BillO was a terrific person. We were just arguing the finer points of his statement and (in some cases) if the finer points even existed.

[MilwaukeeMike]

I've extended my apologies to Mike. Am I still ignorant?

No, I think we got off track and started to debate something that we each hold strong differing views on.. Thats all.

[Tailgater]

I've extended my apologies to Mike. Am I still ignorant?

Not so much now. Very good.:D

[LostAngeles]

What the Christ.

Did a thread in P&CE have a huge fight and everyone made up? And is reasonable? And no one talked about Israel/Palestine?

...

I'm suddenly very afraid.

[skeptifem]

Wow, I knew he was a misogynist and intolerant of non christians, but racism is a new addition (or maybe i havent been paying enough attention).

I cant really believe that there is a debate about this. He wants to keep the white male power structure in place, and is mad at people who do not. To me this just sceams racism, because he is concerned about the RACE of the person in power rather than their qualifications- perhaps considering being a white christian man to be qualification by itself(???).

The difference between this and people campaigning for minorities in power is that minorities do not get the same chances as white christian men, regardless of how qualified they are to be in power. If there are people out there who want minorities in power just because they are minorities instead of their qualifications, yeah, thats not right either, but then again I think some people like Bill O need to actually see that race and sex are not important to how well a candidate does their job so it might be worth something initially to push for that. Having a great minority president for example might change peoples minds about wether or not the current dominant power structure is really that great. for me the push against the white male christian power structure is so that there is a larger pool of qualified candidates to pick from, so that any one person CAN make a difference or be elected, so that any person can get respect based on their qualifications rather than irrelevant things like sex or race. I want more than one dominant demographic power structure so that race/sex becomes non issue when selecting a candidate. Again, I am not completely sure this is possible without first having minorities in power. I wonder how many people out in the world could be doing a great job in a political leadership position but will never get the chance because asshats like bill feel threatened.

[Tony]

Not so much now. Very good.:D

http://www.xsltblog.com/archives/24805BP~The-Simpsons-Mr-Burns-Excellent.jpg

:D

[Tony]

Wow, I knew he was a misogynist and intolerant of non christians, but racism is a new addition (or maybe i havent been paying enough attention).

I cant really believe that there is a debate about this. He wants to keep the white male power structure in place, and is mad at people who do not. To me this just sceams racism, because he is concerned about the RACE of the person in power rather than their qualifications- perhaps considering being a white christian man to be qualification by itself(???).

The difference between this and people campaigning for minorities in power is that minorities do not get the same chances as white christian men, regardless of how qualified they are to be in power. If there are people out there who want minorities in power just because they are minorities instead of their qualifications, yeah, thats not right either, but then again I think some people like Bill O need to actually see that race and sex are not important to how well a candidate does their job so it might be worth something initially to push for that. Having a great minority president for example might change peoples minds about wether or not the current dominant power structure is really that great. for me the push against the white male christian power structure is so that there is a larger pool of qualified candidates to pick from, so that any one person CAN make a difference or be elected, so that any person can get respect based on their qualifications rather than irrelevant things like sex or race. I want more than one dominant demographic power structure so that race/sex becomes non issue when selecting a candidate. Again, I am not completely sure this is possible without first having minorities in power. I wonder how many people out in the world could be doing a great job in a political leadership position but will never get the chance because asshats like bill feel threatened.

Your avatar is scary.

[Tony]

What the Christ.

Did a thread in P&CE have a huge fight and everyone made up? And is reasonable? And no one talked about Israel/Palestine?

...

I'm suddenly very afraid.

I credit my magnanimous nature. ;)

[Darth Rotor]

I cant really believe that there is a debate about this. He wants to keep the white male power structure in place, and is mad at people who do not. To me this just sceams racism, because he is concerned about the RACE of the person in power rather than their qualifications- perhaps considering being a white christian man to be qualification by itself(???)

That is a very good point. Given the format, and his schtick, he may have been doing deliberate race baiting to get a reaction out of McCain, but taken at face value, what you say there is a rational reaction.

DR

[Darth Rotor]

:rolleyes:
Update:

I just heard the interchange on the radio.

O'Reilly says "Pat Buchanan" is right.

So I went back to the link, again.

I read it yet it again.

In that regard, Pat Buchanan is right.

Buchanan is a dyed in the wool paleoconservative, whose appeal frequently aims to garner support among White Nationalists.

I see more clearly your stand on this.

O'Reilly is making a blatant appeal to the White Nationalist crowd with this blurb, there is no mistaking it. Is he a racist, or just pushing buttons?

He's looking to fit that duck test pretty well.

DR