Nazi Death Camps Charge Entrance Fee

[Thunder]

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?c=JPArticle&cid=1180527970151&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

I just had to post this. Was just too funny to pass up.

"$9.99 per person...families of 4 get 10% discount on Zylon B".

[JimBenArm]

What are they thinking? Do they think this is going to be the next Disneyland?
"Hey, Bubba, you just won the Super Bowl. What are you going to do now?"
"I'm going to Dachau!"

[Gravy]

Yes, that headline is accurate, but could have been phrased better. No doubt the FEMA death camp planners are paying attention.

[PhantomWolf]

Seems the NWO Jooos aren't paying them enough to have them keep that old holocault myth alive. Perhaps they are paying too many people over the JKF, Apollo and 9/11 cover-ups now.

[Foolmewunz]

Actually, this is where some philanthropic organization should step in. The death camps are history, and you shouldn't put up any barrier to having people learn about the holocaust. Charging an admission would deter some from going, I'm sure.

But - if they can't support themselves and their efforts, the camps will become footnotes in history, and the deniers will offer their closings as more proof that the holocaust never happened.

[Thunder]

Um...Jews are some of the wealthiest people in the world. I'm sure we could raise the money to keep these places funded. There is no reason to charge people money to learn from the evils of the past.

[Foolmewunz]

Um...Jews are some of the wealthiest people in the world. I'm sure we could raise the money to keep these places funded. There is no reason to charge people money to learn from the evils of the past.

I absolutely agree. I didn't want to say "Jewish Philanthropies", but that was what I was thinking.

Why don't the administrators at Dachau (and the other camps/museums who are also in trouble) go to someone like these folks:

http://www.cjp.org/section.html?id=31

As I said, if there's an admission charged, there will always be someone who thinks that's a reason not to take the class or take the kids....

Some well-off philanthropy needs to lock down a trust fund for these museums so that they never have to worry about closing down.

[Thunder]

Well, personally, I feel no need to ever go to a death camp. I think it only purpetuates the stereotype of the Jewish victim and prevents reconciliation between Jews, Poles, Germans, and other Europeans. I think 60 years of mourning is enough and its time to move forward. The Jews are no longer victims and its time we stop viewing ourselves as such. Anyone agree?

[PhantomWolf]

Well I do, but then I'm part of the facist white overclass that has been the oppressor of the lesser species of mankind for the last 100,000 years, so what do I know?

[strathmeyer]

I'm confused by your use of the words "we", "ourselves", and "anyone".

[The Great Hairy One]

Well, personally, I feel no need to ever go to a death camp. I think it only purpetuates the stereotype of the Jewish victim and prevents reconciliation between Jews, Poles, Germans, and other Europeans. I think 60 years of mourning is enough and its time to move forward. The Jews are no longer victims and its time we stop viewing ourselves as such. Anyone agree?


I'd agree with you, except for one thing - Holocaust deniers. Whilst those inhuman scum still exist, the camps need to remain as historic reminders.

Cheers,
TGHO

[Foolmewunz]

Parky,

I'm of a generation where the war and its evils were a fresh memory. I've never been to a death camp, but if I found myself in Europe near one, I'd probably go. I've been to museums at Changi (Japanese POW camp in Singapore) and Nanjing. It's a part of history, nothing personal against the Japanese.

I don't think of it as divisive to remember our history. ("Our" as in homo sapiens sapiens, not as an ethnic Jew.) If people use this as a reason to hate Germans or Poles, they're wrong.

[PhantomWolf]

I'm confused by your use of the words "we", "ourselves", and "anyone".

reminds me of a little story.

The Lone Ranger and Tonto are riding along through the sagebrush when suddenly about a million Indians come riding over the hill. Our two heroes are soon surrounded, and things look bad for them. The Lone Ranger turns to Tonto and says, "Tonto, we're surrounded. What are we going to do?" Tonto turns to the Lone Ranger and replies, "What you mean 'we,' white man?"

[Ratatoskr]

I visited Auschwitz in 1998, it was a very emotional experience. It was an arranged trip with my class in junior high. I highly recommend it, it really makes you think "we must make sure things like this never happen again".

And let's not forget that not only jews were killed, but almost anyone that didn't fit into the nazis "society".


IMO, these camps are a important part of history that should not be forgotten.

[8den]

I just finished reading the history of the pythons (monty not the snake), and they talk about the time the toured Germany (I'm going somewhere with this).

They were staying in a town outside Dachau, and the local bigwigs, insisted on giving them a tour.

They arrived at the camp around closing time, and the custodians refused to let them in, much to the annoyance of the city officals who had brought them there. Que much arguing in german as the python boys got increasingly fed up. Eventually, utterly exasperated Graham Chapman shouted out;

"Tell them we're Jewish!"


Arguably the most appalling awful funniest thing I've ever heard.

[JimBenArm]

Well, personally, I feel no need to ever go to a death camp. I think it only purpetuates the stereotype of the Jewish victim and prevents reconciliation between Jews, Poles, Germans, and other Europeans. I think 60 years of mourning is enough and its time to move forward. The Jews are no longer victims and its time we stop viewing ourselves as such. Anyone agree?
I'm sorry, but I respectfully disagree. They need to be preserved so that future generations have a real, live example of how cruel and evil people can be to others, under the wrong circumstances. They are a deterrent to this happening, and something that can be pointed to when the vile deniers start their spiel. I know it's an open wound for the people you mentioned, but they belong to the world now, and I don't know if 600 years will be long enough to let them fade away.
There should be someone to step up and fund this. I think they should be non-Jewish, to avoid any howls of "playing the victim" or other such nonsense. I'm hopeful someone will do this. I certainly would if I had the resources, however I'm just a middle-class, middle-aged Midwesterner trying to put two daughters through college, so I barely have enough to pay attention, let alone anything else.

[Dr Adequate]

I'm confused by your use of the words "we", "ourselves", and "anyone". Parky's Jewish, does that help?

[JC Fla]

Parky's Jewish, does that help?

I knew it! Part of the conspiracy! You did it, no matter what it was, you did it!








Just joking Parky....:)

[JimBenArm]

We need some "I Blame Parky!" smileys.

[Loss Leader]

Well, personally, I feel no need to ever go to a death camp. I think it only purpetuates the stereotype of the Jewish victim and prevents reconciliation between Jews, Poles, Germans, and other Europeans. I think 60 years of mourning is enough and its time to move forward. The Jews are no longer victims and its time we stop viewing ourselves as such. Anyone agree?


I really could not disagree more. As those who lived through the Holocaust succumb to old age and the entire event slips into ancient history, it becomes easier for revisionists and deniers to rewrite and reinterpret the Holocaust for their own purposes. Preserving the camps is necessary to keep the memory of what happened there as clear and sharp as possible.

The lessons of the Holocaust have to do with humanity as a whole and the fact that all evil needs to flourish is just a little selfishness in the right places.

As far as reconciliation between Jews and Poles, I note that there are still strong anti-semitic sentiments running through some segments of Polish society including their leadership. (source (http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASInt_13/4980_13.htm)). There cannot be reconciliation before the lessons of the Holocaust have actually been learned. You asked if sixty years of mourning wasn't enough? Some of these individuals have yet to even begin mourning. So, no, sixty years has obviously not been enough.

As for asking Jews to pay for the upkeep of the camps, I find the idea disgusting. The camps are part of Polish history and should be supported entirely by them. Besides, my great uncle already donated to the upkeep of at least one camp - he paid with his life.

[UnrepentantSinner]

I'm neither Jewish nor German, but I have been to Dachau. If charging an admission fee is necessary to fund operations, then it must be done to keep the camps open. Ideally a foundation could be established for fundraising and soliciting the German government rendering the need for admission irrelevant, but until that happens, whatever measures need to be taken should be.

People need to see the Arbeit Macht Frei sign that meant nothing. People need to see the ovens and the barracks. People need to see the grave, about the size of a walk-in pantry under which 10,000 cemated humans lie.

We as a planet have done a pretty crappy job living up to "Never again" (Cambodia, Rwanda, Bosnia, Darfur), but keeping places like Dachau and Auschwitz open will at least keep the horrors fresh in our collective memory.

[quixotecoyote]

We as a planet have done a pretty crappy job living up to "Never again" (Cambodia, Rwanda, Bosnia, Darfur), but keeping places like Dachau and Auschwitz open will at least keep the horrors fresh in our collective memory.

That is exactly why I think LESS emphasis needs to be placed on the Holocaust. Focusing on it to try to warn of the dangers of genocide is like focusing on the Spanish American war to warn of the dangers of media manipulation. True, it happened. However there are much more recent examples of the negative phenomenon that more accurately reflect the situations we are likely to face.

It is unlikely we will face another 'conquer the world' style dictator on a rampage of industrialized death. Right now the genocides that are likely to need prevention come in the form of low-budget warlord-dictator types promoting slaughter through tribal warfare and decentralized raids. We are not going to learn anywhere near as much from the holocaust as we would from, Cambodia, Rwanda, Bosnia, Darfur.

I mean, Darfur is happening right now! You want a exhibit on genocide, we've got one going on live. Forget maintaining museums and charging fees, we've got the actual beast on display.

I'm not the only one saying this. Survivors of the more recent holocausts are upset about the issue.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6069600.stm

It seems like we aren't actually learning anything from decades of Holocaust studies. Sudan has said that it would treat any foreign effort to stop the slaughter as an invasion, and the rest of the world said 'Ok, we won't do it then.' Not a compelling argument that viewing gas chambers and hearing 'never again' is at all an effective lesson.

[vacognition]

There are some economics to be thought about here. Keeping the camps open is expensive, and is probably heavily subsidized beyond the entrance fee. But suppose you have a "successful" camp that gets 1000 visitors per day. That's 365,000/year. At $10 a pop, that's $3.7 million a year. Which is a lot of money to cough up each year to run just one camp. Jews tend to give very heavily to charity, so you have to think about which charity you'd rather didn't get money in order to keep the camp open.

You might object that my numbers (365,000/year) are too high. However, if there aren't any camps getting that many visitors, you have to wonder whether keeping them open is really an effective use of money. I mean, for nearly $4/year, what else could you do to combat genocide (broadly) or judaphobia (narrowly)?

I'm not saying that it wouldn't be a worthy cause. But the money needs to come from somewhere.