God banned from European Constitution, Vatican Outraged

[PygmyPlaidGiraffe]

God banned from European constitution, Vatican outraged (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2003%2F02%2F08%2Fwfile08. xml)

All references to divinity were expunged this week from the newly revealed Article 2 on Europe's values and "the liberty and the rights of man", much to the dismay of Polish Catholics, Dutch Muslims and France's orthodox Jews, all united in deploring the spiritual emptiness of the new Europe.

...

'Let's Leave God Out of This'


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"When it comes to democracy, human rights and equality, God is a recent convert. He was comfortable for centuries with slavery. Yesterday he still blessed Franco."

[Checkmite]

A freedom of religion clause is necessary, if this thing indeed deals with "rights"...however, I see absolutely no reason for Europe to endorse any god, particularly given that the people religious enough to want such an endorsement constitute such a speck percentage of its population.

[Ladewig]

Let's look at the news.

In the U.S., there is a high-ranking judge who wants the ten commandments displayed at a courthouse. The Austin, Texas school board is considering allowing Intelligent Design (http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2003-07-18/pols_feature5.html)to appear in textbooks. The President believes he is doing God's work as is evidence by his once saying "I could not be governor if I did not believe in a divine plan that supersedes all human plans."

Meanwhile, in the EU, the leaders recognize that human rights are inherent and not God-given.

Now, I'll have to spend some time thinking about why I moved back to the U.S. from the Netherlands.

[The Mad Linguist]

Good.

Some of the states of Europe have constitutional secularism. Others don't. Only an EU constitution which doesn't comment on such matters can possibly include both types.

It annoying the Pope is just gravy.

[arcticpenguin]

Any complaints from the druids yet?

[ceo_esq]

I thought this debate was a bit foolish. Nothing was really at stake.

I cracked a smile, though, when the Prague Post editorialized that invoking the name of God in the creation of what is essentially an economic pact comes dangerously close to violating one of the Ten Commandments: "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain."

[PygmyPlaidGiraffe]

Originally posted by ceo_esq
I thought this debate was a bit foolish. Nothing was really at stake.

I cracked a smile, though, when the Prague Post editorialized that invoking the name of God in the creation of what is essentially an economic pact comes dangerously close to violating one of the Ten Commandments: "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain."

:)

I would like to read that editorial article if it's available in English.

[Yahweh]

God banned from European Constitution, Vatican Outraged
Thousands of cases of child molestings and the Vatican hardly batted an eye. When the word "God" is expunged (I love that word... expunge... cracks me up) from the European Constitution and the Vatican sheds its tears because they lost another sponsor. Perhaps the Vatican doesnt have its priorities in the right order...

[Dancing David]

That is a major black eye Yaweh!

Not to mention the crusades and slavery.

The pope can test his faith by stepping offf the roof of the vatican and seeing if they angels will stop his fall.

The druids aren't complaining even though there is no mention of trees in the Constitution.

[ceo_esq]

Originally posted by PygmyPlaidGiraffe


:)

I would like to read that editorial article if it's available in English. It sure is (and I borrowed their English phrase pretty closely):

http://www.praguepost.com/P03/2003/Art/0710/opinpv.php

[mummymonkey]

I have a new found respect for the residents of Prague if they're as sensible as their newspaper editors:)

[PygmyPlaidGiraffe]

Originally posted by ceo_esq
It sure is (and I borrowed their English phrase pretty closely):

http://www.praguepost.com/P03/2003/Art/0710/opinpv.php

Thanks, appreciate that

I did visit the Prague Post and tried to navigate it to find archived editorials, but my efforts were fruitless.

hmmm,

The proposal is opposed by France, a highly secularized state.

well, the French are not all all that bad in my view then :). I propose reinstating french fries and french toast on menus based on this alone.

[mummymonkey]

Slightly mad Spectator article (http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php3?table=old&section=current&issue=2003-08-30&id=3450)

[exarch]

Originally posted by PygmyPlaidGiraffe
well, the French are not all all that bad in my view then :). I propose reinstating french fries and french toast on menus based on this alone.I propose substituting anything "American" with "religion" from now on.
The movie "American pie" would thus become 'Religion pie" that way. I'm sure there are many more interesting words to be formed that way. :p

From the article (http://www.praguepost.com/P03/2003/Art/0710/opinpv.php)
Demographers now speak of a "post-Christian" Europe, where the influence of Christianity is fading away. The percentage of people who attend regular church service in most European countries is in steep decline.This is because we've been doing the religion thing for such a long time now, we think it's about time for something new. Religion is not fashionable any more. :cool:

But seriously, religion has always been a private thing in Belgium, (the way it's supposed to be I might add), not something you shout at every passer by and go door to door announcing. So many people left for "The new world" to enjoy freedom of religion, but it seems they could now start coming back to enjoy freedom from religion.

[American]

That's Old Europe. Who cares! :cool:

[exarch]

From the Slightly mad Spectator article (http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php3?table=old&section=current&issue=2003-08-30&id=3450)
The very notion of ‘destiny’ is simply a euphemism for government by divine right, and this is the teleological explanation for three referendums in Denmark on the Treaty of Maastricht, two referendums in Ireland on the Treaty of Nice, and the suspension of democracy altogether in Belgium and Italy in order to ratify treaties or force through budgets.I was not aware of the fact that democracy had been suspended in Belgium, especially since we voted a new government just a couple of months ago (in which the christian democratic party was still losing more votes compared to last election).

The author of this article is clearly afraid Catholicism will convert protestant England into a catholic nation (which is rubbish), although at this point, England is still not a part of the European Monetary Union (Ireland is though). Also, the people are voting who runs their country, and who runs the European Union, so if something's happening we don't like, politicians will definitely hear about it, and either change it or be voted out. At least that's how it works in theory. The pope is but a mere puppet with currently more power in the US than in Europe from the looks of it.