Under the Banner of Heaven

[Hexxenhammer]

I'm in the middle of reading this right now. I knew Mormonism was wacky, but I thought it was just everyday religious wackiness. I had no idea just how wacky it really is. Here's a religion founded by a guy who used "seeing stones" to find treasure. Who claims to have dug up a "Golden Bible" that he uses magic glasses to translate. etc etc...

What really boggles my mind is that most of the so-called history that the book of Mormon claims to reveal is provably false. More-so than most faith-based beliefs are.

[arcticpenguin]

Oh yeah,

White salamanders, phony Egyptian heiroglyphics, holy underwear.

And then you read about people who were pushed out of the Mormon church for believing things that were too weird!

[HarryKeogh]

that reads more like a harry potter book than a religion.

"Harry Potter and the translating magic glasses"

[Marc]

I'm about 25 pages away from finnishing The Book of Mormon. Yea, it is pretty wacky. Will make a full report when I'm done as long as I'm not graded on it. ;)

Haven't found any mention of the magic underwear in here, or of alien world, and the mentions of multiple wives are actually condemning the practice. Would like to read more about Mormon beliefs and practices, and how the heck they started.

[Hexxenhammer]

The multiple wives thing seems like it started because Joseph Smith was really horny and couldn't believe men should have just 1 wife or God wouldn't have made them women so attractive. He would say "God wants you to be my celestial wife. I'll give you 24 hours to decide. And by the way, if you don't, you're going to hell."
The revelation that he wrote concerning polygamy was mostly about how Smith's wife should listen and obey what Smith said, and not screw with other men. Which she threatened to do when Joseph talked to her about polygamy.

[triadboy]

Hex,

Check out the cartoon at www.saintsalive.com

[Ensign Steve]

Have you read the Homecoming (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/series/-/70/mass_market/ref=pd_dp_series/002-9425819-3008854) series from Orson Card? It is almost a sentence for sentence paraphrase of the Book of Mormon, in the guise of a science fiction series. I have a hard time remembering which is which, or trying to figure out which is wackier!

[Hexxenhammer]

Originally posted by Ensign Steve
Have you read the Homecoming (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/series/-/70/mass_market/ref=pd_dp_series/002-9425819-3008854) series from Orson Card? It is almost a sentence for sentence paraphrase of the Book of Mormon, in the guise of a science fiction series. I have a hard time remembering which is which, or trying to figure out which is wackier!

I started and stopped with Ender's Game. Glad I did. I didn't know Card was Mormon when I read it. The whole "third" child thing made more sense when I thought of Ender's family as Mormon.

[Ensign Steve]

Really? I don't know much about Mormonism, but I thought one idea was to have as many babies as possible, to make more Mormons. I thought that's why polygamy was allowed, too. One man can father many more children if he has a few wives to mother them. Or am I just guessing here?

[Marc]

Originally posted by Ensign Steve
Really? I don't know much about Mormonism, but I thought one idea was to have as many babies as possible, to make more Mormons. I thought that's why polygamy was allowed, too. One man can father many more children if he has a few wives to mother them. Or am I just guessing here?

Yea, that's part of it too. Family is the most important thing. When you get out of highschool your choices are marriage or college then marriage.

Guess that is one reason they are supposed to be the fastest growing religion, simply breeding them. Combine that with strong incentive to do missionary work to get more members.

[Hexxenhammer]

Originally posted by Ensign Steve
Really? I don't know much about Mormonism, but I thought one idea was to have as many babies as possible, to make more Mormons. I thought that's why polygamy was allowed, too. One man can father many more children if he has a few wives to mother them. Or am I just guessing here?

That's right. Sorry if my post was confusing. I meant how the other kids made fun of Ender for being a third child when people weren't supposed to have more than two. Made more sense that his family would keep having kids even if they weren't supposed to if they were Mormon.

[WanderingKnight]

Actually, I'm pretty sure it's explicitly mentioned in Ender's Game that the Wiggens family is Catholic, not Mormon.

[Hexxenhammer]

Originally posted by WanderingKnight
Actually, I'm pretty sure it's explicitly mentioned in Ender's Game that the Wiggens family is Catholic, not Mormon.
Really? Huh. Been a long time since I read it. Still makes sense that he would pick a religion that is similar to his at least in that way.

[Ensign Steve]

Anyway, all those books in all those series are sh8t, in my not so humble opinion. ;) I read them all when I was a stupid, impressionable teen. What was I thinking?! I even still have Earthfall, and that piece of tripe, Lovelock. :roll: <-- LOL! oops, that is supposed to be a rolling eyes smiley. Oh, well, close enough. heh.

[Hexxenhammer]

I thought Ender's Game was good stuff. But, like I said, I'm glad I didn't read anymore. Don't know how he could have improved.

[Charlie Monoxide]

I started and stopped with Ender's Game.
I read this based on good reviews. I found the novel trite and shallow. No more Orson Scott Card for me....

Have you ever wondered why the Mormons spend a small fortune on gathering personal information on everybody? (census, marriage, church records etc.) They do this so that if you decide to become a Mormon, you can then get your dead ancestors "baptised" into the Mormon church. I was amazed while doing family tree research, my long-dead French-Canadian ancestors, who died in the 1750's are now baptised Mormons. The Mormon curch didn't come into existence till the 1850's. A while back some Jewish organiztion politely asked the Mormons to stop baptising long-dead jews.

I admire the fact that the Mormons freely allow the info they collect to anyone.

Charlie (Mormon or Lessmon) Monoxide

[sackett]

It's good to see people tying into the latter-day saints. As a Westerner and a gentile, I have a particular thing about Mormonism and Mormonists.

(Speaking of gentiles: you Jews out there should know that as non-Mormons YOU are gentiles. How's it feel?)

A friend of mine once worked for the power company in Cody, Wyoming, a heavily Mormonised region of the earth. He was told by his supervisor that, no, he didn't have to convert if he didn't want to, but it would be wise of my friend to give money to LDS - to tithe, in effect -- if he hoped for promotion. All quite unashamed and inyerface this was, illustrating the old principle that a religious majority always gets overbearing, no matter who they are.

A cult is more easily exposed the closer we are in time to its origins. Thus Hinduism is quite hard to explode because its various beginnings are lost in the murk of prehistory; similarly Judaism. Christianism's origins are unclear due to a lack of texts; we don't really know who invented it, although its outlines resemble those of many another charismatic cult. Islamism is easier: we can read plenty about Mohammed, most of it quite plausible and none of it suggestive of anything more than a sun-stricken camel-pilot hallucinating about a popular male deity called Lah, then capitalizing on his success at building a following.

Mormonism, an abundantly documented nineteenth-century enthusiasm, is easy: nobody can read its doctrine or the story of its prophet without seeing right through its goofy, gaping, sub-Barnum hype. It lacks the Bronze Age sonorities of the Old Testament, the raging poetry of the Koran, the engaging humaneness of Buddha, the subtlety of esoteric Hinduism, the moneyed glamour of the Catholic Church - it lacks everything that could attract converts, you would say, but for the fact that millions have joined the Mormon church, and live and die in it every day.

How do we account for the appeal of such stuff and worse? The Great Prophet Randi hath given us the term "credophile" to describe the sort of gull who buys almost any line that can't be demonstrated. But not every Mormon is a credophile; the followers of J. Smith can be sensible if not imaginative about many things, just not about their religion.

What rewards do the religious find in their cults?