A Past Experience I Want To Get Over

[JP1283]

As many of you know from my last thread, I have many issues which concern the paranormal. As mundane as they may sound to anyone reading about them, they're hard for me to discount. Believe me, I want to know for sure that it is really all in my mind and not real. I've had some experiences that are hard for me to ignore, and I'm starting this thread so I can talk about them.

This is not a thread that is about proving the existence of God, Jesus, Buddha, or whatever. I'm not trying to be a troll and just posting stories. I'd like to talk about these experiences that I've had and would like some objective feedback, because I really don't like believing that they are the result of something paranormal.

As some of you may know, I have issues with the so-called "unforgivable sin" in Christianity. This is because, as a teenager, someone told me that I should never commit it or I would be damned. At the time, I was suffering from Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder in the form of horrible, intrusive unwanted thoughts, and this person I decided to tell about them was a Christian (now I would label him a fundamentalist.) Of course, after he told me what the unforgivable sin was, it was all I could think about for years. I thought I was damned because the thought kept repeating in my mind, over and over again. Finally, one day, I gritted my teeth and said the words that he said I should never say or I would not be forgiven: "God and Satan are one."

After I said this, I presume I obsessed over it for a little bit and then forgot about it. Perhaps I was so involved in my OCD issues that the reality of what I had just said didn't sink in, and that my eternal destiny was sealed. I forgot about that memory for two years.

In the summer of 2004, in the midst of a health scare, I prayed to God for help. I had since gotten over my OCD repetitive thoughts by reading up on techniques to get rid of them, and had become an atheist. However, I was so freaked out about the health scare that a friend suggested I pray for help, so I did. In hindsight I shouldn't have, it was a weak moment.

Long story short, I got an "answer" to my prayer in the form of a strong coincidence (my friend Jennifer called me out of the blue while I was holding my cell phone in my hand with the number to the local ER dialed into it.) I then had the strength to tell her all about the health scare, to which she told me that she had gone through something similar. I ended up going to her house, where I told her about the prayer and she said that her calling me probably had something to do with my praying for help. She thought that God had her go through her scare so that she could help me with mine.

I started believing in God, but I wasn't really focused on the "evidence" I now had for the existence of God; I was still very much focused on that test coming back negative. However, I soon started having bad thoughts about God. These eventually brought back memories of the unforgivable sin, and I felt very guilty. One night, while I was at Jennifer's house, I thought to myself: "At least I've never said it out loud." And BAM...it was like a sack of bricks hit me, and my terror could probably rival that of an execution victim. I remembered that two years prior, I had said the words I was told not to say: "God and Satan are one."

For about a month, I was absolutely terrorized. I couldn't sleep; I would wake up in the middle of the night and immediately start obsessing. All I could think about was the fact that I was damned for words that I had said.

Then the following experience happened. I was sitting at my desk at work, most likely obsessing over Jesus, being damned, etcetera, when a voice (not inside my head) from inside me asked the following question: "Do you believe that Jesus was the Son of God?" For whatever reason, at the time I felt that I couldn't lie and say yes, so in my mind I said, "No." I then felt something leave me; the only way I can describe it is that my soul, or God, or whatever, departed me. I felt it lift up out of me, like I had just offended God and he decided to leave me at that point, and I felt extremely empty. I no longer felt terrorized about the unforgivable sin; I no longer felt "convicted" if you will.

That is an experience that I can't get over. I try to tell myself that it was all in my mind, but the truth is, I've had trouble feeling guilt over anything since that happened. It makes me worry that the experience was for real, and that God really did leave me that day when I told him that I didn't believe in Jesus.

If anyone has any sort of explanation for that happening, I would love to hear it. I really want to get over the idea that I've offended the Supreme Being and that I'm damned. I want to believe that God didn't leave me that day, but that my mind was playing a trick on me or something.

Thank you for reading.

[Beleth]

There are solvable problems that the people here just aren't in a position to solve. Yours is one of them.

Go talk to a doctor. As soon as possible.

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Aw, so sad :( :( :( .

I hug you through the internets :D :D :D !

Personal spiritual experiences are delusions best left forgotten.

(Goddammit, can't do hug smilies)

[Apathia]

There are solvable problems that the people here just aren't in a position to solve. Yours is one of them.

Go talk to a doctor. As soon as possible.

Oops! I'll have to go to the doctor as well!
In my life of 55 years I had relgious coincidences and fireworks of the same ilk as JP1283 recounts. The reason I haven't considered seeing a psychatrist is that I've listened to many others share their experiences, experinces from a varity of different religious traditions. Religious experiences and the ways we give significance to events are all very human.

You know I've even heared individuals say how expansive and transcedent they felt when they became an Atheist. Some even recount coincidental meetings helped them undergo their dramatic mind change. (The greek word for repentance is "Metanoia," meaning change of mind.)

I myself, had hours of mystical revery when I came to understand how the natural process of evolution was well up to the task of the diversity of the species without need of a Tinkerer.

My suggestion, JP1283 is that you do some reading research in the psycholgy of religion. There's a lot of neat stuff coming out about brain states when people are having religiously altered consciouness.

Sometimes I remember a couple of dramatic answers to prayer. But what cures me of making them into Theism is that I also remember the prayers that wern't answered.

[Beleth]

Oops! I'll have to go to the doctor as well!
The parts of his posts that prompted my advice had to do with his reactions to events rather than to the events themselves. So if you were "absolutely terrorized" by a thought for about a month, and have had experiences that you "can't get over", then I would say yes, you definitely should as well.

[Wheezebucket]

Whether you should see a doctor or not, I have no idea. What I do know is, you're not gonna get the help you apparently need on an internet forum, no matter how well intentioned the people here are.

Especially when there are other people (like me) who just think it's a big attention hoo-ha and won't take it seriously in this format, and like to point it out. If you really are having issues, that sure as heck ain't gonna help.

[qayak]

Then the following experience happened. I was sitting at my desk at work, most likely obsessing over Jesus, being damned, etcetera, when a voice (not inside my head) from inside me asked the following question: "Do you believe that Jesus was the Son of God?" For whatever reason, at the time I felt that I couldn't lie and say yes, so in my mind I said, "No." I then felt something leave me; the only way I can describe it is that my soul, or God, or whatever, departed me. I felt it lift up out of me, like I had just offended God and he decided to leave me at that point, and I felt extremely empty. I no longer felt terrorized about the unforgivable sin; I no longer felt "convicted" if you will.

Well, unlike the other atheist wooses here, I am not afraid to tell you what I think.

What you felt was just the wieght of the religious crap being lifted from you. With that gone you are free to focus on the real problems. I suggest you seek professional help for you OCD, as others have already done.

Either that or you really are destined to spend the rest of eternity in the flaming pits of hell. :p

ETA: Don't worry about this last bit. If this is the case, all the rest of us atheists will be there along with you nad we can have a few laughs about it! I'll bring the beer! :D

[Apathia]

The parts of his posts that prompted my advice had to do with his reactions to events rather than to the events themselves. So if you were "absolutely terrorized" by a thought for about a month, and have had experiences that you "can't get over", then I would say yes, you definitely should as well.

I see. I hope "absolutly terrorized" was hyperbole. If not I agree with you to the extent that some counseling would be useful to him. I'm not saying he's loony, but we all sometimes have overwhelming feelings we need help processing.

I've had altered states of conscoisness in connection with letting go of beliefs, but these have been more a wonder for me than something terrible.

When your own persnal identity and the way you construct and maintain it is based on a matter of religious culture or even an ingainary companion, letting go of that feels a kind of death. But openess to a changed mind is also a rebirth.

And even though this was said to me by a chiropractor I didn't trust,

Trust the process!

[Kariboo]

So, which unforgivable sin are we talking about?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unforgivable_sin

If you believe in god (and I don't but just for the thought experiment)

Don't you think he would be a bigger man than to take offense at something you say as opposed to something you believe?

Oh, and if you look at the links, there seem to be all kinds of opt out plans

[Kopji]

hi jp1283,

Do not expect continuous progress in your escape from the prison you are in. Give yourself years.

Consider the possibility that there are many people, including doctors, who would use your OCD as a tool to help others believe because they sincerely view faith as a perspective that is a benefit to humanity.

There is no magic phrase that could send someone to hell for eternity.

If there were a god, he would love you and value your struggle as a sign of a true seeker of truth.

[Beerina]

I wish some spirit would ask me if I believed Jesus was the son of God.

"Why no. Do you plan to throw me into Hell because of it? If so, how does this support the contention that Yahweh is a kind and loving god?"

[mylfmyhnr]

Then the following experience happened. I was sitting at my desk at work, most likely obsessing over Jesus, being damned, etcetera, when a voice (not inside my head) from inside me asked the following question: "Do you believe that Jesus was the Son of God?" For whatever reason, at the time I felt that I couldn't lie and say yes, so in my mind I said, "No." I then felt something leave me; the only way I can describe it is that my soul, or God, or whatever, departed me. I felt it lift up out of me, like I had just offended God and he decided to leave me at that point, and I felt extremely empty. I no longer felt terrorized about the unforgivable sin; I no longer felt "convicted" if you will.

That is an experience that I can't get over. I try to tell myself that it was all in my mind...

Well, this (http://www.womenshealthmag.com/article/0,6176,s1-21-80-1281-1,00.html) may be a place to start. The articles are careful to put the evidence into the context of actually believing, but if you read it from an athiest view point it might help on your journey. The link above is a short quip, this is an actual article (http://www.womenshealthmag.com/article/0,6176,s1-21-80-1280-1,00.html) that may help.
This certainly isn't a be-all, end-all... but it may help to get you going on your own research. Goodluck!

[tkingdoll]

So while God is in you, you carry the terrible burden of having said the Christian equivalent of "Candyman" and you're torn up with fear and regret. But the minute you denounce Jesus, God leaves you and you feel better? Therefore the denouncing can only be a good thing.

I am not mocking you, I am pointing out to you just how daft this rules from God crap is if you look at it objectively. I have every sympathy with what you went through, as a kid I went through something very similar. What you must now do is realise that your previous paranoias about the power of a simple sentence are just red herrings. The idea that there is something simple you can say which guarantees you'll burn in hell is very, very silly. Candyman, Candyman, Candyman...

Concentrate on the silliness of the idea.


Then destroy it with logic. Ask questions as though you are challenging the friend who originally told you about the sin:

"If I say it but don't mean it, does God know the difference?"

"If there's no-one around to hear me say it, technically I didn't make a sound so it's not actually been said. Does that matter to God?"

"If I mean it but don't say it, is that just as bad?"

"What if I accidentally say it as part of another sentence? For example "God and Satan are one heck of a pair of opposites" or "God and Satan are one day going to decide who gets my soul"?

"What if I'm forced to say it at gunpoint?"

"What if my family is kidnapped and saying it is the only way I can get them back?"

"What if I say it in another language?"

"How do we know that's the right phrase? Surely it's been translated through many old languages to get to "God and Satan are one". What if something was mistranslated and it's actually something we say all the time, like "For god's sake"! We could be damning ourselves by accident!"

"What if a little toddler who can't really talk is just gurgling away in his own nonsense language and accidentally comes out with those words without knowing the meaning?"

"What if someone who doesn't speak English reads the words phonetically?"

"What if I am tricked into saying them, for example if someone asks me to read the words "go, Dan, and say 'tan Arwen'".

"What if I am completely unaware of religion and say the words as a complete naif?"

And so on. The more you ask, the dafter the whole idea sounds. And it's perfectly OK to say to yourself "I was in a dark mode of thinking but in the cold light of day I can see I wasn't being myself".

Oh, and one last thing. I just said "God and Satan are one" out loud, in the presence of my husband. I did it so if it turns out your friend is right, you will have some company in the eternal hellfire. You'll recognise me when I get there by my long black hair and Brummie accent.

JP1283, if I'm wrong, I'll see you in hell :D

[Ipecac]

JP1238,

I have to agree with those who suggest you need some professional help. Not being mean or funny here, but in all seriousness.

On a less serious note, does the Christian God operate just like saying "I believe in Mary Worth" three times in front of a mirror? What nonsense!

To show how ridiculous it is, I will now, in a public forum, for posterity (or at least until the apes take over and kick us off the internet) commit this "unforgivable sin" against a non-existent deity.

God and Satan are one.

Actually, that's being mean to Satan.

God sucks.

God is a blow-hard. A nincompoop. He wouldn't know a real sin if it kicked him in his "omnipotent" (actually undersized) crotch.

See?

Also works for other fictional characters.

Hannibal Lechter is a bad, bad jerk.

Darth Vader sucks.

Santa Claus is a fat poser who only delivers toys so he can peep into other people's bedrooms.

Hmm. I feel a little bad about that last one, actually.

[Miss Anthrope]

Teek, that's good advice. Shortly after having my first child I developed panic disorder. I saw a doctor and got on a small dose of Paxil. That took the edge off so I could work on changing my thought patterns. Irrational fears were not indulged, but rather met with a ferocious counter attack of logic. I was able to stop the medication and live a full life again, but not without first making a conscious decision to actively challenge the thoughts.

[Loss Leader]

JP - I've gone through your post and removed everything except the descriptions of how you feel:


At the time, I was suffering from Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder in the form of horrible, intrusive unwanted thoughts ...
it was all I could think about for years.
I thought I was damned
the thought kept repeating in my mind, over and over again.
I obsessed over it for a little bit and then forgot about it.
I was so freaked out
I then had the strength
I started believing in God
I wasn't really focused on the "evidence"
I soon started having bad thoughts
it was like a sack of bricks hit me
my terror could probably rival that of an execution victim.
For about a month, I was absolutely terrorized.
I couldn't sleep;
I would wake up in the middle of the night and immediately start obsessing.
All I could think about was the fact that I was damned
I was ... obsessing over Jesus, being damned, etcetera
I felt that I couldn't lie
I then felt something leave me;
my soul, or God, or whatever, departed me.
I felt it lift up out of me,
I felt extremely empty.
I no longer felt terrorized
I no longer felt "convicted"
I've had trouble feeling guilt over anything since that happened.
It makes me worry
I really want to get over the idea that I've offended the Supreme Being
I want to believe that God didn't leave me that day,


I don't believe that you are having a religious problem at all. I don't believe your problem is one of faith or lack thereof. And I do not believe any amount of philosophising one way or another is going to be helpful.

Your own words reveal an individual who is being absolutely torn apart by obsession and maybe depression. Your thoughts run in circles; an issue is never truely decided but you keep returning to it again and again. It is taking up your time, affecting your work and keeping you from living as fully as possible.

I have good news and bad news. The bad news is that you have a mental illness. Your brain is physically sick. The same way someone might have liver disease, your brain needs treatment.

The good news is that there are probably a lot of great treatment options available to you. There are whole shelves of medications, any one of which might be able to make you feel better in as little as three weeks. In addition, you'll probably want to see a counselor to sort out just how to live with your new, healthy brain. Just like a person might need physical therapy after having his knee repaired, you'll need therapy after your brain is repaired. You've been living with illness so long that you need someone to show you how to live without it.

Call a family member and ask for help finding psychiatric services today.

Remember: You wouldn't make fun of a person who needs chemotherapy so you shouldn't worry about being stigmatized for needing psychological therapy.

[Solus]

There are solvable problems that the people here just aren't in a position to solve. Yours is one of them.

Go talk to a doctor. As soon as possible.

Great advice. Therapy don't forget that too though.

[Jon.]

Remember: You wouldn't make fun of a person who needs chemotherapy so you shouldn't worry about being stigmatized for needing psychological therapy.


Hear, hear!

[Tanstaafl]

Maybe it's not the equivalence of god and satan that causes one to go to hell. Maybe it's the misuse of math. Let's analyze this:

god and satan are one.

god + satan = 1

god (non-existent) + satan (non-existent) = 1

since non-existent = 0,

0 + 0 = 1

Which is a mathematical fallacy.

It doesn't work for boolean math either:

god (false) AND satan (false) = 1 (true)

false AND false = true

false = true

So of course this is grounds for going to hell for all eternity!

[Darth Rotor]

As many of you know from my last thread, I have many issues which concern the paranormal. As mundane as they may sound to anyone reading about them, they're hard for me to discount. Believe me, I want to know for sure that it is really all in my mind and not real. I've had some experiences that are hard for me to ignore, and I'm starting this thread so I can talk about them..
Here are four posible courses of action.

1. See a shrink (per above suggestions)
2. See a clergyman
3. Change your meds
4. Start drinking heavily

Each of these suggestions carries with it a risk that what happens after following any one of them will raise yet another obstacle in your life.

Too damned bad, that is life, get on with it.

What you need to stop doing is feeling as though you are unable to do anything, something, to get yourself out of this spiritual hole. If that takes a shrink, or one of the other options (option 4 has a low probability of helping that) then so be it.

Pick one, and run with it. Best of luck. Chances are, the four options are rank ordered in likelihood of helping you out of your fix.

DR

[SoBitter]

I'm going to go even farther and say that I believe you are trolling. I don't know for what purpose. Perhaps it is personal attention, perhaps you are trying to open people's eyes to weird psychic demon experiences, but either way, it's annoying.

Your previous threads are personal accounts of coincidences and psychic experiences, and people have responded that you should probably get counseling. I don't know why you need yet another thread full of people to tell you the same.

[JP1283]

Thanks to all who have responded in this thread...reading the responses has definitely given me some food for thought, especially about saying 'damning' phrases.

Oh, and I understand how "SoBitter" got his name.

[SoBitter]

I am a female. My bitterness is only enhanced by trolls.

[tkingdoll]

I'm going to go even farther and say that I believe you are trolling. I don't know for what purpose.



It doesn't matter anyway, because this is not a rare problem. I went through something very similar myself. There are a lot of ex-religious skeptics and although not everyone is wracked with guilt, I think this thread could be useful to more than just the person who started it :)

[largeprimenumber]

JP1283: from what I've read, it doesn't sound like you actually got treatment for your OCD. You say you "got over it" by reading up on it, but you don't mention actually consulting a professional about it. I'm guessing the OCD is now resurgent.

I'm not a doctor, either, but I feel like I went through a similar experience with "OCD" (assuming that's what I have, I never saw a doctor about it, either). It got really bad during my teenage years, what with me burning out light bulbs by flipping the switch a certain number of times (29 or 99 being two "good" numbers) before leaving or entering a room. I never got treatment. By the time I was an upperclassman in high school, I had mostly suppressed the actions, but the thoughts were still there, knowing what I "should" do. Lately, though, the actions are coming back, and I manage to keep them at a low level. I can prove to myself that I'm being ridiculous, but the fear/discomfort remains. As long as I'm busy, I'm fine.

If you're not going to see a doctor, my suggestion is to find something to occupy you instead of your fears.

[TheAntiLuddite]

So while God is in you, you carry the terrible burden of having said the Christian equivalent of "Candyman" and you're torn up with fear and regret.


I like tkingdoll's analogy. :)

I don't think JP1283 is trolling. I had a fair amount of religious indoctrination as a child and (not suprisingly) when I was 11, I was hit with a massive case of religious OCD. And it was absolutely terrifying. I'll also go so far as to say that unless you've experienced something like this, it's very difficult to fully grok the mental trauma it produces, especially to an immature and uncritical intellect. It's like a malignant cognitive hurricane that repeatedly tears through your psyche leaving crushing anxiety and depression in its wake. Standard OCD is a nightmare; religious OCD is hell incarnate. Here's one reason: this insidious variant of OCD typically strikes the devout as opposed to the non-religious. This means you'll most likely be surrounded by other religious folk who will have no clue what OCD is (since mental distubances are the work of the Evil One). Assuming you overcome your shame and attempt to confide in someone, they will repeatedly tell you to simply pray harder. Worse, they may confirm your fears that yes, you have offended their deity-of-choice and, so sorry, you just lost your harp and halo. As an added bonus, your mental agony will reinforce the belief that the deity is indeed punishing you for your trangression.

My parents were completely broadsided by this and had no clue what was wrong as I became progressively unhinged. I didn't get the, "It's Satan! He needs an exorcism!" treatment, but then again, I didn't get any treatment whatsoever: no therapy, no antidepressants (this was long before Paxil and Zoloft), and no formal CBT (Cognitive Behavorial therapy). I don't believe in miracles but the fact that I didn't jump off a bridge or step in front of a bus is pretty close to one. To be fair, I also don't envy my parents: here they have a child on a constant crying jag, can't tell them or anyone else what's wrong, and they either don't know what to do or, worse, can't face the social stigma and embarrasment of having to admit that one of their children has a mental problem.

I finally had to do something drastic to end my pain:

I simply accepted the fact that I was hellbound. After all, if an omnipotent (not omnibenevolent, obviously) god has earmarked you for eternal damnation, what else can you do?

It was the best thing (only thing, really) I could have done. I had been suffering for eight months. The anxiety slowly began to dissipate, followed by the depression. Within a month my mental state had almost completely normalized. I was also no longer subject as much to religious blather and dogma, which may have been the impetus for my (years) later nontheism and intense desire for critical thinking. I had definitely come through the fire (hellfire, if you will) and had emerged a stronger individual.

For the record, I had one more episode of (non-religious OCD) when I was a teen and I was able to smother it within a week. I've had no fully-blown incidents since mainly because I am extremely sensitive to irrational, anxiety-generating thoughts that arise unbidden. These thoughts are immediately identified for what they are and allowed to pass through without any mental resistance.

Nevertheless, JP1283, I would suggest (as others have) that you see a mental health professional. It's not that you can't deal with this problem on your own, it's that you don't have to. Keep in mind that I may have been an oddity regarding how I overcame this; I've read of other religious OCD sufferers who weren't as lucky.

Good luck,
AL

[SoBitter]

I'm not denying that someone could get something out of the post, I just feel that this person's posts are misplaced for the kind of forum this is, and are also repetitive. He's actually posted this same account as another thread as well.

If I had religious based fears I wouldn't go to a skeptic's forum, and if I had psychological problems I wouldn't go to a forum full of people untrained in mental health.

I'm really not trying to start anything though. If everyone else is ok with it I have the ignore option.

[Loss Leader]

and if I had psychological problems I wouldn't go to a forum full of people untrained in mental health.


In order for that to make sense, you would have to know your problems were psychological. JP didn't. He probably still doesn't believe it.

[kurious_kathy]

What you felt was just the wieght of the religious crap being lifted from you. With that gone you are free to focus on the real problems. I suggest you seek professional help for you OCD, as others have already done.DUh ya right. gayak you don't know what you are talking about. Spiritual experiences are real but they aren't enough to validate anything because they can't be seen. I myself have had a spritual experience and can honestly tell you God is there and he does make us choose him over what the world dictates. We all need Jesus as our personal Lord and savior.

Either that or you really are destined to spend the rest of eternity in the flaming pits of hell. :p

ETA: Don't worry about this last bit. If this is the case, all the rest of us atheists will be there along with you nad we can have a few laughs about it! I'll bring the beer! :D
Wrong again. Hell won't be a party gayak it will be an seperation from you and God forever.

The point I want to make is God is a God of second and third chances while we are still alive and breathing. We all have a choice to repent and live through Christ. If we deny him we will regret it for eternity! God's grace and mercy is still there for the asking!

[Tanstaafl]

Uh ya right. gayak you don't know what you are talking about. Spiritual experiences are real but they aren't enough to validate anything because they can't be seen. I myself have had a spritual experience and can honestly tell you God is there and he does make us choose him over what the world dictates...


Many of us have had spiritual experiences.

You concede that they aren't enough to validate anything, then you build your whole belief system on them? This is what I don't understand. Just how do you rule out that this experience was entirely in your own mind?

[Darth Rotor]

Just how do you rule out that this experience was entirely in your own mind?
Not everyone thinks this is a necessary exercise. If you do, cool, whatever rows your boat. :)

DR

[Tanstaafl]

Well, maybe it's just me, but if I'm going to structure my life around a belief system, I'd want to make sure that the foundation has some substance to it.

Actually, it probably is just me, never mind... ;)

[Loss Leader]

The point I want to make is God is a God of second and third chances while we are still alive and breathing. We all have a choice to repent and live through Christ. If we deny him we will regret it for eternity!


Infinite chances during a finite period of time and zero chances during an infinite period of time. You'll pardon me, but I don't care to worship a god who forces compliance with those rules.

[EatatJoes]

God just informed me a derail was coming. Oh, and this post will end up at about 8 pages.

So, to help this thread continue its spiritual journey, I ask KK - what should this poor chap do? Pray harder?

[ksbluesfan]

You can approach this in several different ways. I like many of the other suggestions in this thread. You can also approach it from a religious standpoint. Nowhere in the Bible does it mention that as an unforgivable sin. As far as I know, the only unforgivable sin is blaspheming the holy spirit. Don't take my word for it -- find out for yourself.

While your at it, you might study to origin of Satan. While Satan is mentioned in the Bible, the current understanding or explanation of fundamentalists is not consistent with the intent of the author. For instance, the earliest reference to "Lucifer" clearly means "the Morning Star", also known as the planet Venus. It has nothing to do with the Lord of Darkness.

Prior to the Babylonian captivity, it would have been considered blasphemy to even suggest a being such as Satan. That myth was borrowed from the Persians (Cyrus the Great, an early messiah, was a Persian king). The story of the fall of the angels is not in the Bible. I assure you, Moses did not believe in Satan or hell as we know it (he believed in Sheol -- very similar to the Greek Hades). According to the Bible, Moses was pretty tight with God.

But more importantly, take care of your OCD behavior.