Curses, oaths, and utterances.

[largeprimenumber]

I was thinking lately about the phenomenon of atheists and non-Christians in general, using interjections like "Jesus!" or "God, damn it!" or generally just invoking gods we don't believe in. Some might argue that this is humanity's natural tendency to believe in the supernatural, and some might argue that such is just the vagaries of language.

A related issue might be the American debate on the swearing of oaths over various holy books. Is the oath invalid if you swear it to a god that doesn't exist? If not, then what good is an oath?

[Hokulele]

Well, I have been known to let loose with a "Holy cow!" every now and then, but I'm not Hindu.

[slingblade]

You know, I went through a phase for a while where I would stop myself saying any deity-related interjections, because I thought it was a betrayal of atheist principles.

Then I realized how god*****d stupid that was and said, "Jesus Christ! What am I thinking? God, I must be a moron!"

Do you know how it kills a mood dead when you stop in the middle of sex because you can't think of anything else to say but OH GOD?

Or worse, when your partner stops, so he can laugh while he stammers, "But...I thought you didn't believe--?"

Uh, I believe you are gonna be in a world of hurt and involuntary abstinence if you don't get them hips moving again, boy!

It's a habit. I've said those words all my life. I'm not going to stop now.
I have more fun these days anyway, as I actually imagine Christ on a pogo stick and can't stop giggling.

[The Great Hairy One]

Do you know how it kills a mood dead when you stop in the middle of sex because you can't think of anything else to say but OH GOD?

Or worse, when your partner stops, so he can laugh while he stammers, "But...I thought you didn't believe--?"

Uh, I believe you are gonna be in a world of hurt and involuntary abstinence if you don't get them hips moving again, boy!


Bwahahahahahaha!!! That's hilarious, Sling. Well said. :D I know my wife says some mighty strange things at some points as well. :blush: :halo:

Cheers,
TGHO

[UnrepentantSinner]

By Jove I think we're on to something!*

A related issue might be the American debate on the swearing of oaths over various holy books. Is the oath invalid if you swear it to a god that doesn't exist? If not, then what good is an oath?

Most places where you swear or say an oath merely have you raise your right hand, an anachronistic practice btw, so the question is irrelevant. You only swear/oath on your personal honor or the thread of incarceration with regards to perjury.

* bonus points for anyone who gets this

[largeprimenumber]

Slingblade: hilarious post. I went through the same phase as you, where I tried to abstain from such interjections. I even started invoking Ford, which is ridiculous, since Ford's just as imaginary.

UnrepentantSinner: I agree that oaths are obsolete, but many people take them extremely seriously, even though it's just a promise not to lie, which should be a given. Recall the recent yammerings by the likes of Dennis Prager and FoxNews over Keith Ellison's swearing in on the Koran: people still think it matters, but paradoxically, they only think it matters if you do it on the Bible, regardless of your beliefs.

It's not blasphemy if you don't believe it.

[Rufo]

I thought freely taking God's name in vain was one of the benefits of not being a convinced Christian. Can't we have any fun? :(

[slingblade]

By Jove I think we're on to something!*

* bonus points for anyone who gets this

I don't. I want to say it's either the good Doctor, or else My Fair Lady and professor Higgins.

But I want to know what the hell "all ye gods and little fishes" means, and what that's from, as I say that all the time, too.

[UnrepentantSinner]

I don't. I want to say it's either the good Doctor, or else My Fair Lady and professor Higgins.

But I want to know what the hell "all ye gods and little fishes" means, and what that's from, as I say that all the time, too.

Jove is a reference to Jupiter. It's why the planet and it's moons/ring are called the Jovian system and putative aliens from there would be called Jovians.

[SezMe]

I was thinking lately about the phenomenon of atheists and non-Christians in general, using interjections like "Jesus!" or "God, damn it!" or generally just invoking gods we don't believe in. Some might argue that this is humanity's natural tendency to believe in the supernatural, and some might argue that such is just the vagaries of language.

A related issue might be the American debate on the swearing of oaths over various holy books. Is the oath invalid if you swear it to a god that doesn't exist? If not, then what good is an oath?

Actually, I don't think the two are related at all.

I regularly rip off a "Jesus Christ on a pogo stick" when dumbstruck by some idiocy...any idiocy no matter if it's evolution, politics, my stupid son, etc.

That invocation of the Christian diety has nothing to do with the swearing of oaths. As I understand it, swearing to a god in an oath or simply affirming your commitment to tell the truth goes back to our founding principles. Either works and either has the same substantive value...namely, nothing.

[slingblade]

Jove is a reference to Jupiter. It's why the planet and it's moons/ring are called the Jovian system and putative aliens from there would be called Jovians.

Oh, good lord (there's another one). I knew that. I thought you meant what was the whole line from? ;)

Now I shall have to beat you soundly about the head and shoulders for a good long while.

[UnrepentantSinner]

Oh, good lord (there's another one). I knew that. I thought you meant what was the whole line from? ;)

Oh. The answer to that is I just made it up as a paraphrase. :D

[slingblade]

But there was only one. How can it be a paraphrase?


(slingblade runs briskly away.....)

[largeprimenumber]

That invocation of the Christian diety has nothing to do with the swearing of oaths. As I understand it, swearing to a god in an oath or simply affirming your commitment to tell the truth goes back to our founding principles. Either works and either has the same substantive value...namely, nothing.
I thought the invocation (why isn't it "invokation"?) of the diety was so that the diety would formally witness the oath, apparently because one's diety is the ultimate witness.

I understand that in America, we have the option to "affirm" instead of swearing by a diety--which seems like a tacit acknowledgement that God is imaginary.

[kmortis]

I thought the invocation (why isn't it "invokation"?) of the diety was so that the diety would formally witness the oath, apparently because one's diety is the ultimate witness.

I understand that in America, we have the option to "affirm" instead of swearing by a diety--which seems like a tacit acknowledgement that God is imaginary.

Well, technically, since the State is supposed to be agnostic toward a deity, they aren't making a call either way. Just providing us non-religious heathens a viable option.

[Jon.]

I thought the invocation (why isn't it "invokation"?) of the diety was so that the diety would formally witness the oath, apparently because one's diety is the ultimate witness.

It isn't "invokation" because the root is Latin, and Latin, IIRC, didn't use the letter K.

I understand that in America, we have the option to "affirm" instead of swearing by a diety--which seems like a tacit acknowledgement that God is imaginary.

In Canada, too. As a lawyer, I routinely ask my witnesses whether they wish to swear on a Bible or affirm. Most ask me which is "better." I explain that they are equally valid and the choice is simply a matter of conscience.

In 10 years of practice in a fairly large, very multicultural city (including a practice that at one time had a large number of Punjabi and Iranian clients) I have had exactly one witness ask for a Koran. Most Muslims and even Sikhs seemed happy to swear on the Bible, indicating that they viewed it as a holy book.

Incidentally, the one fellow who asked for a Koran was given a book wrapped entirely in cloth. Nobody opened it to check that it was in fact the Koran. Does anyone know if this is a common practice?

[largeprimenumber]

It isn't "invokation" because the root is Latin, and Latin, IIRC, didn't use the letter K.
I only asked because the root is "invoke".

[catbasket]

I'm very partial to the occasional "Jesus H. Christ on a bicycle", no fries.

By Jove I think we're on to something!
One google hit - here.

"By Jove I think you're on to something" - a pageful of google hits. I'm sure I've heard this version many times - no idea where it originates from as a saying I know the Jove/Jupiter connection).


Search without quotes or with "onto" replacing "on to" and there's loads of hits! All kinds of versions - I'm onto, she's, he's, they're.

[Nex]

It isn't "invokation" because the root is Latin, and Latin, IIRC, didn't use the letter K.
But the verb is "to invoke." :con2:

Incidentally, the one fellow who asked for a Koran was given a book wrapped entirely in cloth. Nobody opened it to check that it was in fact the Koran. Does anyone know if this is a common practice?
I don't know if it's common, but I can offer a speculation. The Qur'an is not supposed to be touched unless one goes through the act of wudu, a ceremonial cleansing and personal dedication to Allah. That's probably why it was wrapped in cloth -- to keep unclean hands from touching it. But I'm just guessing.

[RenaissanceBiker]

I like to use "Cheese and Rice!" Said properly, it sounds like "Jesus Christ" and will make people take notice. Some people get this priceless look on their face as they mentally process it, "Wait, that's not what he said."

I'm going to try and use "By Jove" now.

[fuelair]

I don't. I want to say it's either the good Doctor, or else My Fair Lady and professor Higgins.

But I want to know what the hell "all ye gods and little fishes" means, and what that's from, as I say that all the time, too.I am normally really good at research - but I have just put in almost 7 minutes and the most I can tell you is that as "Oh! Ye gods and little fishes" it was used in 1918 or '19 in a letter home from a gentleman in the AEF (WWI). It apparently is not a quote from anyone major in fields quotes come from.

[slingblade]

Thanks, Fuelair! My Google-fu is sometimes weak, and I could find nothing either, except a note that the phrase is actually just "ye gods," and we silly Americans expanded it for no discernable reason. ;)

[calebprime]

I was thinking lately about the phenomenon of atheists and non-Christians in general, using interjections like "Jesus!" or "God, damn it!" or generally just invoking gods we don't believe in. Some might argue that this is humanity's natural tendency to believe in the supernatural, and some might argue that such is just the vagaries of language.



I'm coming from the amateur neurologist angle. Swearing, cursing, (*&@#$87, 8-ing etc. is not related to logical content. Rather, it's almost as if there's a Repository of Bad Words, or repressed words, or forbidden words with affective content.

I'm thinking of Tourette's syndrome. Also of what happens when you stub your toe. Or have an orgasm.

Anecdote: when a sibling of mine had a bad sledding accident, there was a collision with a tree, and bleeding from a ruptured artery on the right side--low down on the temporal lobe. All he/she could do was swear--until he/she was saved by an operation. The neurology here doesn't make much sense--except in terms of general disinhibition. But my point is that it was verbal behavior coming from some other place than thinking. It wasn't about propositional content.

One reason I don't like people making a big deal out of the n-word, or "cracker", or f***,s****,p****,etc. Is that they are basically verbalized grunting, with a strong involuntary component. They are only half on-purpose, if that.

I'm pretty Tourett-ish myself. One good thing about my kid growing up is that I can start to swear again. It's been many years of denying myself that pleasure.

Swearing in a rational discussion brings things down to the level of the primitive--or it can just relieve tension for everybody...

[fuelair]

Thanks, Fuelair! My Google-fu is sometimes weak, and I could find nothing either, except a note that the phrase is actually just "ye gods," and we silly Americans expanded it for no discernable reason. ;)

You are welcome kindly - and I branched to phrases and could legitimately move it to 1902 (with a technical mid-late 1800's) but nothing else. Now I am annoyed! I shall refine more and branch further - this is too common to have so little on it!!!

[Kilgore Trout]

Being Catholic for so long, I used to feel so horribly bad if I let a God or JC slip. Hearing it also grated my ears. These days, I find I let them go a lot more frequently (not to say I curse like a sailor, normally I'm quite restrained, but relatively speaking..) and if I still get a bit of a twinge, it's with a chuckle, "Oh yeah.."

I think a lot of it is just (pop) culture, TV, movies, etc. Not so much a matter of some personal belief, just that it's ingrained in the society we live.

And, what else can be said when Kirk Cameron holds up a picture of a crocoduck, but "oh my God."

[Dunstan]

I'm very partial to the occasional "Jesus H. Christ on a bicycle", no fries.

Hey, what does the "H" stand for, anyway? I've always wondered....

[Tanstaafl]

Heironymous.

Little known fact.

[Piscivore]

Do you know how it kills a mood dead when you stop in the middle of sex because you can't think of anything else to say but OH GOD?

"By Grabthar's hammer... do me harder/yes yes YES/f[rule 8] me like a virgin on prom night/etc" comes in handy here. :)

[Nex]

Heironymous.

Little known fact.
No no no! It stands for Harold, after his dad.

You know, "Our father who art in heaven, Harold be thy name..."

[Jon.]

I only asked because the root is "invoke".

But the verb is "to invoke." :con2:

Because "invoce" would be pronounced differently?

I don't know if it's common, but I can offer a speculation. The Qur'an is not supposed to be touched unless one goes through the act of wudu, a ceremonial cleansing and personal dedication to Allah. That's probably why it was wrapped in cloth -- to keep unclean hands from touching it. But I'm just guessing.

Ah, that would be a good explanation. Well, "good" in the sense of explaining why it's done, not in the sense of being rational or anything.

[Marquis de Carabas]

Sorry Tan and Nex, but the H is for Horatio.

[Tanstaafl]

Hey, I got that information by the same, ultra-reliable method used for acquiring all knowledge of a deity.

I pulled it out of my butt.

How can you argue with that?

[RenaissanceBiker]

I certainly wouldn't argue with something you pulled out of your butt. I hope you washed your hands afterwards.

[Hokulele]

Hey, what does the "H" stand for, anyway? I've always wondered....


Hokulele.

What? You mean as in Jesus H. Christ?

Hirohito.

[Piscivore]

I certainly wouldn't argue with something you pulled out of your butt. I hope you washed your hands afterwards.

Ew, I shook hands with him. :(

[Madalch]

Sorry Tan and Nex, but the H is for Horatio.

Which is why Christ so often dramatically takes off his sunglasses, says something smarmy, and then dramatically puts his sunglasses back on again.

[Taffer]

I say things like "Jesus Christ!" and "God damn it", and I am an atheist. They are just figures of speech.

[fuelair]

Which is why Christ so often dramatically takes off his sunglasses, says something smarmy, and then dramatically puts his sunglasses back on again.
I watch that occasionally myself - but you have to admit that when he says don't and they do anyway they wind up dead!:D

[Cactus Wren]

I always thought the H was for Haploid.

[slingblade]

Hainish.

or Harkkonen.

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

I say 'Christ on a Bike' but I don't think that they had invented bicycles back then.

[largeprimenumber]

I always thought the H was for Haploid.
+1 clever!

[largeprimenumber]

I think I'm going to try and bring back "His wounds!"

[calebprime]

absa-zounds-lutely!

[Beerina]

Slingblade: hilarious post. I went through the same phase as you, where I tried to abstain from such interjections. I even started invoking Ford, which is ridiculous, since Ford's just as imaginary.

UnrepentantSinner: I agree that oaths are obsolete, but many people take them extremely seriously, even though it's just a promise not to lie, which should be a given. Recall the recent yammerings by the likes of Dennis Prager and FoxNews over Keith Ellison's swearing in on the Koran: people still think it matters, but paradoxically, they only think it matters if you do it on the Bible, regardless of your beliefs.

It's not blasphemy if you don't believe it.

Swearing by God invokes eternal damnation on yourself if you should lie on the witness stand. As a Christian, I believe also you are not supposed to do this. Affirming should be just fine, though.

Of course, swearing carries no weight if you don't believe in it (in this life anyway. Next life, well, you were going to Hell anyway.)

[Dunstan]

UnrepentantSinner: I agree that oaths are obsolete, but many people take them extremely seriously, even though it's just a promise not to lie, which should be a given. Recall the recent yammerings by the likes of Dennis Prager and FoxNews over Keith Ellison's swearing in on the Koran: people still think it matters, but paradoxically, they only think it matters if you do it on the Bible, regardless of your beliefs.


I'm sure this was covered in another thread at the time, but Prager is an idiot. Presidents John Tyler, Franklin Pearce, and Herbert Hoover affirmed rather than swore their oaths of office, and Theodore Roosevelt swore but not on a bible. (Wikipedia claims that Pierce didn't use a bible either, but the Library of Congress says otherwise, (http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/pihtml/pinotable.html) so I'll go with the LoC.)

Of course, if today a president were to affirm rather than swear, the religious right would go nuts and claim he wasn't "really" the President.

[catbasket]

Just to clear up any misunderstandings the Jesus H. Christ I was referring to earlier has the middle name "Howard". He is the one true cyclist.

Any other Jesus H. Christ is an impostor.

[Tanstaafl]

Ew, I shook hands with him. :(


No worries, that was before.

[Lensman]

The (thoroughly) English exclamation "Egads", is a corruption/contraction of "Ye Gods", "Blimey" & "Cor Blimey" are from "God blind me if I lie", "Lumme" is from "God loves me". There are others, but I'll have to get back to you all on that.

[PrincessIneffabelle]

I will sometimes swear by Odin ... no one is ever insulted or offended by that one.

*gets assaulted by huge crows*

[Piscivore]

No worries, that was before.

So I guess this smell on my fingers is my own fault. Darn.

[JoeTheJuggler]

Well, I have been known to let loose with a "Holy cow!" every now and then, but I'm not Hindu.
And I say "Holy mackeral" even though I'm not. . . oh nevermind.

Oh--OK--I say "Holy Toledo" even though I'm not a pilgrim and I've never been to Spain.
Edit: and I'm not Batman's sidekick.

The (thoroughly) English exclamation "Egads", is a corruption/contraction of "Ye Gods", "Blimey" & "Cor Blimey" are from "God blind me if I lie", "Lumme" is from "God loves me". There are others, but I'll have to get back to you all on that.
Zounds comes from the above-mentioned "by His wounds".

By Jove, I can't think of any other examples.

[JoeTheJuggler]

I was just trying to imagine if Schoolhouse Rock's Interjections song were re-done with some of the words on this thread:

"Jesus H. Christ! That smarts!
G-d D-ammit! That hurts!
Holy crap! That's not fair givin' a guy a shot down there!"
Oh right. . . if you do that, you get South Park.

When I was very little, maybe 5 years old, I got in some kind of trouble, along with a neighbor kid. We were very upset about it, and conspired to get back at the adults--by blaspheming! The absolute most horrific thing we could come up with (which did in fact land us into even more hot water) was "Poop Jesus!" I remember none of the details of the incident, except that horrendous curse!

My favorite, though, has to be the one used a lot in God's Little Acre (Erskine Caldwell): "pluperfect". As in, "What in the pluperfect hell do you think you're doing?"

[wolfgirl]

I work in a business (advertising) where there is a lot of swearing and cursing in the workplace, so being surrounded by it at work every day and not having to censor oneself at all during that time, it has become harder and harder for me to censor myself at home. My husband, an ex-sailor, thinks I swear too much!

I have to confess that, as an atheist, I often invoke God or Jesus in my curses, specifically BECAUSE they're blasphemous. Hoping to offend a xian, I guess. (I've become much more militant about such things in my old age!)

God f*&king damn it!

Jesus F^#king Christ!

Jesus Christ on a Lambretta! (I think I got this one from Eddie Izzard - my husband got such a kick out of it that he PhotoShopped a picture of Jesus on a Lambretta for me)

[Hokulele]

Jesus Christ on a Lambretta! (I think I got this one from Eddie Izzard - my husband got such a kick out of it that he PhotoShopped a picture of Jesus on a Lambretta for me)


Please, please, please use that as your avatar someday. That would totally make my day. :)

[Darth Rotor]

I say 'Christ on a Bike' but I don't think that they had invented bicycles back then.
That is why "Christ on a Camel" was more in vogue, back in the day. :cool:

The last guy who said "Christ on a Goat" got hit by lightning, so it went out of fashion. Curious, that. :boggled:
DR

[calebprime]

what's a lambretta?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambretta_(motorscooter)

oh.

[eir_de_scania]

Swedish swearing mostly consist of calling down Hell and it's inhabitants. I don't believe in them but unfortunately it doesn't stop me from swearing...

We do use God&Jesus as well, but that's not considered half as bad as calling on them downstairs.

[Elizabeth I]

One of my favorites was the one used by Scarlett O'Hara's father: "God's nightgown!"

Why would God want (or need) a nightgown?

[Kilgore Trout]

I find more comfort in the idea of God sleeping in a nightgown than without one.

"Hey, Jesus, you have got to have another talk with your pa. Last night I went down for a glass of water and found Him making a sandwich in the kitchen. I may not be able to look at another liverwurst the same way again."

[Meadmaker]

Does anyone know if this whole tendency to utter the name of a deity when angry extends beyond Christianity? In India, would we see someone using a hammer suddenly say, "Krishna!" when he hit his thumb?

I can't picture a Muslim saying, "Mohammed H. Prophet (peace be upon him)" when mad.

I hardly ever see South Park, but i did this week. If you saw it, you would have seen someone saying "Science H. Logic!"

[Jorghnassen]

Sweet Zombie Jesus. I love that one... Religion provides much better swear words than sex related slang.

[Irony]

Personally I use "Christ on a stick!" fairly often. It has the added bonus vaguely offending some of the nearby Christians even though they are usually wearing a replica of said stick.

[Darth Rotor]

Personally I use "Christ on a stick!" fairly often. It has the added bonus vaguely offending some of the nearby Christians even though they are usually wearing a replica of said stick.
"Christ on a crutch" was one I learned from a Marine DI, and given the atheist commentary on Christianity being a crutch for a believer, a nice source of a very "in" subtle meaning, if "Christ on a stick" ever gets tiresome for you.

Maybe the "crutch" is, through some obscure etymology, a reference to a crucifix.

DR