Patriotism

[ohp]

I was driving to my parents house the other day, and I noticed someone had hoisted a union jack in their back garden.

I was quite shocked. You just don't see that kind of thing in England. There's a time and a place to patriotism, and that's at the Albert Hall on the last night of the proms. Anywhere else, and it's just a little bit over the top.

What is the world coming to?

I wondered if this was typical of countries that had been around a while... I mean, a lot of bad stuff has happened over the years in the name of what that flag represents, stuff you wouldn't want to be proud of.

Perhaps it's time for a new flag, and a better national anthem too.

[Thunder]

Are you joking? Is it really that unusual to fly the British flag? In the USA, millions of Americans fly the Stars and Stripes. Its our flag, there is nothing extremist or overt about flying it. Flying it does not suggest your politics one way or another. Funny post.

[marksman]

Once I met an Italian lawyer who had been interning here in America while studying for an advanced degree in International Law. I asked her what was the most dramatic difference between Italians and Americans. Without batting an eye, she said "You people really love your flag! You hang it everywhere."

She said the only time you ever saw the Italian flag was over national buildings and after World Cup victories.

[MilwaukeeMike]

Are you joking? Is it really that unusual to fly the British flag? In the USA, millions of Americans fly the Stars and Stripes. Its our flag, there is nothing extremist or overt about flying it. Flying it does not suggest your politics one way or another. Funny post.

I second that... Whats strange about flying your country's flag?

[Tony]

Are you joking? Is it really that unusual to fly the British flag?

The Union Jack is the flag of the UK, not Britain. I'm not sure if the difference is significant, but there is a difference.

Flying it does not suggest your politics one way or another.

I can see that in England, it could make a differnce. Why didn't he fly the English flag but instead chose to go with the Jack?

[Undesired Walrus]

Are you joking? Is it really that unusual to fly the British flag?

Really Unusual. Seriously. I have never seen one outside Westminster.

[ohp]

I can see that in England, it could make a differnce. Why didn't he fly the English flag but instead chose to go with the Jack?


The English flag is worse! It represents opression of the scots, welsh and Irish, it was a symbol of the crusades, and the flag worn by rioting football hooligans.

The image is changing, however. You can get away with an English flag on St Georges day, that's about it.

[petra10]

Most people in Scotland fly the scottish flag in their gardens.Its called the saltaire, its blue with a white st.andrews cross on it.There are not many union jacks though

[Tony]

The English flag is worse! It represents opression of the scots, welsh and Irish, it was a symbol of the crusades, and the flag worn by rioting football hooligans.

The image is changing, however. You can get away with an English flag on St Georges day, that's about it.

Thanks for the info. I was basing my assumption on the number of English flags I see flown at English soccer games.

Perhaps you guys need a new flag? One the represents freedom and democracy as opposed to the crown's domain?

[ohp]

Thanks for the info. I was basing my assumption on the number of English flags I see flown at English soccer games.

Perhaps you guys need a new flag? One the represents freedom and democracy as opposed to the crown's domain?


Perhaps. Our Anthem is "God Save the Queen" Not enthusiastic about either of them to be honest!

However, I'm sure that many in this country would have grave doubts about an alternative. Look what they came up with for the London 2012 Olympics logo. It looks like what happened the morning Matisse discovered he only had one colour left in his paper store.

http://images.scotsman.com/2007/06/04/2007-06-04T153749Z_01_NOOTR_RTRIDSP_2_OUKTP-UK-BRITAIN-OLYMPICS.jpg

*shudder* I could just imagine a flag designed by a British flag comittee..

[petra10]

yes can you imagine!!! you should be proud to fly your flag and not let the footie hooligans hi-jack it.At celtic and rangers games they fly union jacks and the irish tri-colour.

[Dr Adequate]

I second that... Whats strange about flying your country's flag? Well ... just that we don't do it. Which would make it strange if I did, however patriotic I feel.

[Tony]

Perhaps. Our Anthem is "God Save the Queen" Not enthusiastic about either of them to be honest!

However, I'm sure that many in this country would have grave doubts about an alternative. Look what they came up with for the London 2012 Olympics logo. It looks like what happened the morning Matisse discovered he only had one colour left in his paper store.

http://images.scotsman.com/2007/06/04/2007-06-04T153749Z_01_NOOTR_RTRIDSP_2_OUKTP-UK-BRITAIN-OLYMPICS.jpg

*shudder* I could just imagine a flag designed by a British flag comittee..

WTF were they thinking? That thing is terrible. Is it 1983? That design reminds me of the cheesy art you'd see on a "Trapper Keeper" back in elementary school. Except for the fact that it says "London" and features the Olympics logo, that logo totally fails to communicate the idea of an olympic sports competition in the city of london. New York and Houston knew what they were doing:

http://www.doctorperlman.com/images/hou2012-120.jpg

http://www.mediabistro.com/unbeige/original/olympics_nyc.jpg

[BillC]

The BBC invited readers to send in their own redesigns. Some of them, knocked up in a few minutes over lunchtime, are far superior to the monstrosity above. Either this one (http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/43006000/jpg/_43006855_james_wren_416.jpg), or this one (http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/43007000/jpg/_43007325_angus_walker220.jpg), would have done very well, and would have cost next to nothing.

[Dr Adequate]

Yes, well, what you have to realise is that the fashon industry is one big scam controled by the Elders of Zion and that by 2012 we'll have convinced everyone that magenta on a yellow background looks cool.

Or I could emigrate, I'm looking into that.

[Tony]

The BBC invited readers to send in their own redesigns. Some of them, knocked up in a few minutes over lunchtime, are far superior to the monstrosity above. Either this one (http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/43006000/jpg/_43006855_james_wren_416.jpg), or this one (http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/43007000/jpg/_43007325_angus_walker220.jpg), would have done very well, and would have cost next to nothing.

I agree. At the very least, those are good starting points.

[Dr Adequate]

Oh damn --- did we leave the OP?

[MIKILLINI]

Who came up with that design for a logo? There's not much creativity to that.
I agree with Tony, that does look so...elementary...and so 80's like.
And BillC, those other designs are much, Much better.

[Dr Adequate]

Who came up with that design for a logo? There's not much creativity to that.
I agree with Tony, that does look so...elementary...and so 80's like.
And BillC, those other designs are much, Much better. Do you want to be invaded, or what?

[MIKILLINI]

Yes, well, what you have to realise is that the fashon industry is one big scam controled by the Elders of Zion and that by 2012 we'll have convinced everyone that magenta on a yellow background looks cool.

Or I could emigrate, I'm looking into that.

Oh No! It's the Joooos, again! :D
Where could you emigrate to? Those crazy Zionists control everything.

[MIKILLINI]

Do you want to be invaded, or what?

I don't mind British invasions..The 80's invasion was quite good.

[Dr Adequate]

Oh No! It's the Joooos, again! :D
Where could you emigrate to? Those crazy Zionists control everything. Iran?

[The_Fire]

http://images.scotsman.com/2007/06/04/2007-06-04T153749Z_01_NOOTR_RTRIDSP_2_OUKTP-UK-BRITAIN-OLYMPICS.jpg



WTF is that thing supposed to be?!

And in Denmark, people with gardens frequently flies the Dannebrog.......Especially on Sundays....

[MIKILLINI]

Iran?

Would you really want to go there? They may be attacked. (or so I've heard);)
Damn I did leave the OP...Sorry 'bout that.

[fuelair]

Are you joking? Is it really that unusual to fly the British flag? In the USA, millions of Americans fly the Stars and Stripes. Its our flag, there is nothing extremist or overt about flying it. Flying it does not suggest your politics one way or another. Funny post.
Odd in France, (and from this) Italy, Britain. It is not a universal thing to fly the/a flag.

[grumps]

Did anybody else see the original #5 submission before the BBC figured it out and yanked it? Classic... :D

[Tony]

WTF is that thing supposed to be?!

And in Denmark, people with gardens frequently flies the Dannebrog.......Especially on Sundays....


If you watch the video here:

http://www.london2012.org/about-newlook-video.html

You can get an idea of what they're trying to do. In a way, I like it, I agree that it is bold and innovative, but this direction is too 1980's MTV faux graffiti for the olympics.

[PogoPedant]

It reminds me of a video with Paula Abdul and a cat of some sort.

[Damien Evans]

Are you joking? Is it really that unusual to fly the British flag? In the USA, millions of Americans fly the Stars and Stripes. Its our flag, there is nothing extremist or overt about flying it. Flying it does not suggest your politics one way or another. Funny post.

Almost no-one flies the Australian Flag

[ohp]

I must confess, my original post was a little tongue in cheek.. I will confess to being very surprised, but not shocked.

When the union jack is unfurled it's generally for very special occasions, like winning the bid for the olympics, or winning a big war, or a little flag for waving at the queen for those who are into that kind of thing (but less so at the minor royals)

You might see it outside public buildings, perhaps large hotels and company head offices, but more in the capital than anywhere else.

I think the generally understated nature of the flag is why union jack underpants are popular.. it lets a man feel patriotic, but without showing the flag to everyone he meets.

I don't think that waving the flag shows any political leanings, but it's just not an everyday thing.

[Zep]

Almost no-one flies the Australian FlagWe just have flies.

[CFLarsen]

We just have flies.

But none on Frank.







10 points to the one who gets it.

[richardm]

Most people in Scotland fly the scottish flag in their gardens.

I think "most" is probably an overstatement! True to say that if they are flying a flag at all it would be the Saltire, but it's pretty rare all the same I'd have thought. Just about the only one I see in these parts is outside Jimmy Savile's house when he's there. And he flies a Saltire and a Union Flag at the same time. And he is of course daft as a brush anyway.

[brodski]

The Union Jack is the flag of the UK, not Britain. Um no, for all intents and purposes the terms "Brittan" and "UK" are synonymous. Although some in N. Ireland dispute that the island of Ireland is part of the British isles. They are wrong.


I'm not sure if the difference is significant, but there is a difference. no there isn't


I can see that in England, it could make a differnce. Why didn't he fly the English flag but instead chose to go with the Jack?

As OHP said, the cross of St George would probably be worse.
Ever since the end of WWII it became increasingly Naff to fly the flag, eth loss of Empire and the break down of class politics meant that the Union Flag became associated with oppression.
In the 1970’s and 80’s the far right opposing post war immigration took the Flags of England and the UK and make them symbols of intolerance and hatred. For decades the only places you would see the flags flying would be Government Buildings, the homes of Neo Nazis, and possible in the back garden of a mad old Brigadier who thought he was still keeping the natives down in the Brittish Raj.

This association has broken down to some extent recently, but lost of Union flags flying still make me uncomfortable.

[catbasket]

As brodski said the Union and English flags were appropriated by the far right by groups such as the National Front. There does however seem to be a move to reclaiming these from the extremists.

In Wales you mainly tend to see the Welsh flag at sporting occasions. Or when we get a new "Prince of Wales".


Apparently that London 2012 symbol cost £400,000 to develop ($800,000). Well, it's interactive, innit? (So they say, I know it comes in four colours).

[richardm]

Well, it's interactive, innit? (So they say, I know it comes in four colours).

It also has an animated version - that is to say, every now and then it gives a rapid twitching fit. Rather like a dying fly, in fact. Hmm. The look of it. The dying fly. Perhaps the organisers should go the whole hog and introduce flan flinging to complete the Tiswas connection.

[catbasket]

Re the UK, Great Britain and the British Isles -

My understanding is that Great Britain is a geographical thingy - it's the big island between Ireland and western Europe. It comprises England, Wales and Scotland.

The British Isles are another geographical thingy, the two islands off the west of Europe and are comprised of England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

The UK is a politcal thingy and is comprised of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. "UK" is an abbreviation of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.


So geographically Northern Ireland is not part of Great Britain but is a part of the British Isles. And the Republic is geographically also part of the British Isles. Add politics into the mix and the arguments start ...


ETA - the "great" in Great Britain simply means "big". Not "we're better than johnny foreigner" - which is what many Brits seem to think it means. ;)

[Cheesejoff]

I think the only people who fly the Union Flag in their homes are BNP voters and the occasional patriot.

I have seen it being flown maybe once or twice .

[Dr Adequate]

I think the generally understated nature of the flag is why union jack underpants are popular.. it lets a man feel patriotic, but without showing the flag to everyone he meets. The British have flies too ...

[HarryKeogh]

So if I went to England would I look silly wearing my Def Leppard Union Jack t-shirt? Haven't worn it in 25 years but I might still be able to squeeze into it.

[Magyar]

well, enjoy flying your flag however strange. I know someone who served 6 months hard labor for flying this one
http://www.mfa.kfki.hu/structdp/thinnano/thinnano/hungarian_flag.jpg
during the 70s.


What I find REALLY strange in the US is how easily the confederate flag is accepted and even flown on govt buildings.

[Small Town Jesus]

I think it was very nice of the designers of the 2012 Olympic logo to include Maggie Simpson, even if it does look like she's smoking a crack pipe. Perhaps it will tie in nicely with the release of one of the inevitable sequels to The Simpsons movie. I would have gone for Disco Stu myself though.

[petra10]

I think "most" is probably an overstatement! True to say that if they are flying a flag at all it would be the Saltire, but it's pretty rare all the same I'd have thought. Just about the only one I see in these parts is outside Jimmy Savile's house when he's there. And he flies a Saltire and a Union Flag at the same time. And he is of course daft as a brush anyway.

sorry i didnt mean to say most people fly a flag kinda meant that if they did it was a Saltire.It is quite rare here as well although someone put a small flag on his garden shed and now a lot of people have done the same.:blush: :blush:

[richardm]

It also has an animated version - that is to say, every now and then it gives a rapid twitching fit.

... and speaking of fits... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6724245.stm)

sorry i didnt mean to say most people fly a flag kinda meant that if they did it was a Saltire.

I thought that must be what you meant, but didn't want anyone to go away with the idea that Scotland is a sea of gently waving blue-and-white :)

[Complexity]

Regarding that horrible 2012 Olympics logo:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=460205&in_page_id=1770

They paid 400,000 pounds for it.

You can sign a petition to junk it at:

http://www.gopetition.co.uk/petitions/change-the-london-2012-logo.html

[Ove]

I really think it is down to cultural differences. In Denmark and indeed in all the nordic countries we use our flag a lot. Most houses has a flagpole and we fly our flags on special occations, birthdays etc. and off course at half mast when somebody has died. You could call it a "family mood indicator" :) and as i said it goes back really a long way and you could wonder if not that custom came to USA with the immigrants before and after WW1 where a LOT of nordic people immigrated to USA.

[UnrepentantSinner]

I really think it is down to cultural differences. In Denmark and indeed in all the nordic countries we use our flag a lot.

I remember going to a Norwegien flag store when I visited there and buying a nice 8 x 10.

[zooterkin]

Are you joking? Is it really that unusual to fly the British flag? In the USA, millions of Americans fly the Stars and Stripes. Its our flag, there is nothing extremist or overt about flying it. Flying it does not suggest your politics one way or another. Funny post.

I think you'll find that the US is the exception; I can't think of any other country I've visited where it's as normal to fly the country's flag. I was quite surprised that everyone salutes the flag at the opening every morning of a tourist attraction like SeaWorld, for example.

[ohp]

Actually it was one thing that surprised me about TAM was that the stars and stripes wasn't as prevelant as I thought it would be in Vegas.

[sackett]

I doubt you'll very often see the Confederate flag flying on any government building in the U.S., and certainly not above the American flag.

However: As we can observe from this thread, the esthetic appeal of a flag makes a big difference. Who can deny that the Stars and Bars is a handsome old banner? Similarly, the Union Jack is a fine design, and if John Bull wants to wave it, I say let him.

Damn shame the Australian and New Zealand flags aren't more evident. Two of the loveliest in the world. Probably only the state flag of Alaska is more splendid.

I wish everybody had his own flag, and flew it frequently. Mine would be made from that a long-ago Scientific American] cover, from an issue devoted to the sun. It was a beautiful orange ball on a black field. I'd run it up on the staff of my castle tower, to let my henchman know that they could come get beef and whiskey.

[Dr Adequate]

I wish everybody had his own flag, and flew it frequently. And yet you have no avatar.

[Upchurch]

I see the Union Jack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:GeriUnionJack.jpg) from time to time.

[UnrepentantSinner]

I think you'll find that the US is the exception; I can't think of any other country I've visited where it's as normal to fly the country's flag. I was quite surprised that everyone salutes the flag at the opening every morning of a tourist attraction like SeaWorld, for example.

I was just going to comment that I think you're overstating things when I noticed which earmouse incarnation I'm currently using. ;)

[This Guy]

But none on Frank.







10 points to the one who gets it.

I think there is another reference for "No flies on Frank", but is this what your talking about?

http://www.geocities.com/soho/lofts/8498/ownwrite.html

(the 4th entry below the intro)

[zooterkin]

But none on Frank.







10 points to the one who gets it.

Well, it could be this: http://www.timeoutny.com/newyork/Details.do?page=1&xyurl=xyl://TONYWebArticles1/574/music/coach_fingers.xml

What do points mean?

[CFLarsen]

I think there is another reference for "No flies on Frank", but is this what your talking about?

http://www.geocities.com/soho/lofts/8498/ownwrite.html

(the 4th entry below the intro)

10 points to you. ;)

[This Guy]

10 points to you. ;)

WhooHoo

Now, where can I redeem them, and what can I get?



;)

[KoihimeNakamura]

There was a controversly in South Carolina about flying the Confederate Flag over the State Capitol building - it's common to fly both the American Flag and Confederate Flag down there.