Gaydar

[ChristineR]

I'm starting this to end the non-relevant gaydar conversation on this (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=83788)thread.

[Miss Whiplash]

Ok.

I think it's an eye contact/body language thing, though. Once I thought some chic was flirting with me but she wasn't. That was a long time ago, though..:D

[ChristineR]

So far as I can tell, most gay men take the existence of gaydar for granted. Certainly there are many explicit signs (green carnations, bandannas, a long pinkie fingernail) that have come and gone over the years.

Does anyone claim it to be supernatural?

[Z]

Not supernatural, but completely natural. I've had many gay, lesbian, and bisexual friends, and most of them could accurately recognize signs of other GBLT people. The term 'gaydar' originated in the gay community. Straights, apparently, lack gaydar, with the exception of a few women, who have a weakened form of gaydar; specifically, single women have a sense that any man who's perfect is either married or gay.

For anyone to take offense at the term 'gaydar' is just infantile and moronic.

[tkingdoll]

Gaydar is a nonsense in that you only know if you are right when the person is confirmed as gay.

Up until that point it's a hunch. After that point it's a confirmed hunch. Big deal.

[Miss Whiplash]

Gaydar is a nonsense in that you only know if you are right when the person is confirmed as gay.

Up until that point it's a hunch. After that point it's a confirmed hunch. Big deal.
I have a hunch you don't wear a mullet or know the international lesbian sign...Then I have a hunch you are not gay.

Normally when a babe just sits in my lap or corners me in the bathroom, I take it as more than a hunch.

[SezMe]

I thought a mullet was a fish...but dictionary.com helped out with that one. Now, after I learn what the international lesbian sign is, it'll be ok of me to go outside.

[Miss Whiplash]

I thought a mullet was a fish...but dictionary.com helped out with that one. Now, after I learn what the international lesbian sign is, it'll be ok of me to go outside.


I would tell you, but, if you're a man, I'd get kicked out of the sisterhood. We have so many secrets...

[tkingdoll]

Normally when a babe just sits in my lap or corners me in the bathroom, I take it as more than a hunch.

Then it's a confirmed hunch. But you can only make an educated guess about someone's sexuality until they confirm it one way or another.

[zombiebex]

You know, I seem to remember reading an article where people were able to recognize whether or not a person was gay solely by their body language... Let me see if I can find it...

[Gregory]

Then it's a confirmed hunch. But you can only make an educated guess about someone's sexuality until they confirm it one way or another.

I don't quite get where you're going with this? If one group of people can succesfully identify a gay man by watching him, say, 90% of the time, and the rest of the population can only do it, say, 10% of the time, then there is a quantifiable differense between them, and writing it off with "It's still just a hunch" seems sort of disingenuous.

[Miss Whiplash]

Then it's a confirmed hunch. But you can only make an educated guess about someone's sexuality until they confirm it one way or another.

So, does this apply to you and men? Can you tell who is het and who is not or is it still a hunch?

Teek, I think you are missing something here. If you meet me in a lesbian bar 95% of the time I can tell who is straight, who is power dyke and who is bi-curious. You will miss the most in the spot the dyke contest unless it's a 300 lb truck driver in a flannel shirt.

Tell me how I know and why you miss.

[ConspiRaider]

You know, I seem to remember reading an article where people were able to recognize whether or not a person was gay solely by their body language... Let me see if I can find it...
60 Minutes on CBS had something about this awhile ago, Leslie Stahl did the story.

[ConspiRaider]

So, does this apply to you and men? Can you tell who is het and who is not or is it still a hunch?

Teek, I think you are missing something here. If you meet me in a lesbian bar 95% of the time I can tell who is straight, who is power dyke and who is bi-curious. You will miss the most in the spot the dyke contest unless it's a 300 lb truck driver in a flannel shirt.

Tell me how I know and why you miss.
She can't tell or they'd kick her out of the heterohood. Too many secrets...:)

[zombiebex]

Aha, thanks! 60 Minutes was the missing term in my Google search.

Here's the report:
http://60minutes.yahoo.com/segment/68/gay_or_straight?comment_offset=1491

[Miss Whiplash]

She can't tell or they'd kick her out of the heterohood. Too many secrets...:)

And banned from isle 23 forever.

[ConspiRaider]

I don't know if this was "gaydar" gone wrong or just plain aggressive action or what...:)

I was in a theatre company in Hollywood, but hadn't been active for awhile. Still, I went to see one of their productions about halfway through the run of the show.

The director of the company then asked if I'd mind crewing the rest of the run and I agreed.

I'm single at the time, and there are 8 actors in the play. 7 women, one guy. So I'm figuring ... hmm ... maybe I'll click with one of the women. The show ends that first night that I crew and I'm backstage yakking it up with everyone afterwards. Well, somebody tweaked my left nipple pretty hard, I turn to look ... and of course it's the guy. My luck! :o

Never did get anything going with a woman from that show, and of course the guy didn't get lucky with me either. So what was that? Was his gaydar out of alignment? Just aggression? Maybe I was gay in a previous life and that was leaking through or something? I dunno...

[Miss Whiplash]

I don't know if this was "gaydar" gone wrong or just plain aggressive action or what...:)

I was in a theatre company in Hollywood, but hadn't been active for awhile. Still, I went to see one of their productions about halfway through the run of the show.

The director of the company then asked if I'd mind crewing the rest of the run and I agreed.

I'm single at the time, and there are 8 actors in the play. 7 women, one guy. So I'm figuring ... hmm ... maybe I'll click with one of the women. The show ends that first night that I crew and I'm backstage yakking it up with everyone afterwards. Well, somebody tweaked my left nipple pretty hard, I turn to look ... and of course it's the guy. My luck! :o

Never did get anything going with a woman from that show, and of course the guy didn't get lucky with me either. So what was that? Was his gaydar out of alignment? Just aggression? Maybe I was gay in a previous life and that was leaking through or something? I dunno...

I dunno either. I'd wager aggressive action. Is there "het-dar" though? How do straights know each other? Most men assume I'm straight. Many get tweeky and wind up with a drink in their lap - or worse.

Edit: Always look for visual cues. Notice what people are wearing. Nine times out of ten, if a woman is wearing Brikenstocks, and certain clothing, it gives them away. I knew Ellen DeGeneres was gay the first time I saw her on Johnny Carson. Dockers, Hushpuppies or sneakers? Sistahhhhh!

[ConspiRaider]

I dunno either. I'd wager aggressive action. Is there "het-dar" though? How do straights know each other? Most men assume I'm straight. Many get tweeky and wind up with a drink in their lap - or worse.

Edit: Always look for visual cues. Notice what people are wearing. Nine times out of ten, if a woman is wearing Brikenstocks, and certain clothing, it gives them away. I knew Ellen DeGeneres was gay the first time I saw her on Johnny Carson. Dockers, Hushpuppies or sneakers? Sistahhhhh!
Men are typically good at reading men, less good at reading women, has been my experience. I think we reach this low level of women-reading and never progress much above that. I mean in peripheral situations, not in long-term relationships.

Men reading men is a complex operation, constant and ongoing. Typically, straight men focus almost exclusively on the eyes of other men. You're reading eyes, trying to pick up a whole pallet of information. If you notice a guy checking you out up and down - looking at your body? I suppose that could be a tell. I've gotten that - and it feels somehow intrusive. Interesting to me, because then I can step behind the forehead of a woman and try to guage how she feels when we straight guys give her the once over - a body scan. But when I sense a guy is body-scanning me - it's a bit unnerving. With guys - it's eyes, eyes, eyes. I'm certain we're picking up basic body language outside of that, but we zero in on the eyes.

Certainly for me it would be difficult to guage whether or not a woman was a lesbian, in a brief contact. And maybe even a longer contact. Women are, in a number of ways, mysterious to men and not tremendously readable. So - before you dump that drinky-pooh into the lap of a guy putting the make on ya - it's very possible he cannot read you are only into women. There's more to it, obviously. He might think you're just saying that to turn him aside. There's the ego thing involved. There's the fact that men are somewhat afflicted with the responsibility of initiating the chase. Which can be scary, frustrating, whatever. And there's... Tim. Short for Timminy, I think. I was at their wedding, she hooked up with my Navy buddy. Tim loved to tell how much she couldn't stand him when they first met, and even several meetings afterwards. But he was persistent, he won her over, they're still happily married. I guess today? That'd be called stalking, he'd possibly be cooling his heels in some state-run institution...

[Whiplash]

Not to be a horrible, mean skeptic but I'd love to see a real study about this. Testing people's ability to detect someone who is gay or not based on any number of stimuli. Are people fooling themselves? Not noticing the times they were wrong? All the same questions as for those who think they spin pinwheels with their minds.

I am being somewhat facetious, honestly, don't bite my head off ;)

[Miss Whiplash]

Not to be a horrible, mean skeptic but I'd love to see a real study about this. Testing people's ability to detect someone who is gay or not based on any number of stimuli. Are people fooling themselves? Not noticing the times they were wrong? All the same questions as for those who think they spin pinwheels with their minds.

I am being somewhat facetious, honestly, don't bite my head off ;)

It's a light hearted thread! :D

Will someone please tell Bishop Manchester (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2662846&postcount=723) to leave me alone. I'm not interested. I bat for the other team. His attention is embarrassing and makes me feel icky. :cool:

[TX50]

.

Men reading men is a complex operation, constant and ongoing. Typically, straight men focus almost exclusively on the eyes of other men.

You're speaking for yourself there of course. There are situations
where "focussing on the eyes of other men" will get you your ass
kicked (and not in a way you'd like).

[ConspiRaider]

It's a light hearted thread! :D

Will someone please tell Bishop Manchester (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2662846&postcount=723) to leave me alone. I'm not interested. I bat for the other team. His attention is embarrassing and makes me feel icky. :cool:
Bishop, hear some confessions and take a vacation to Rome or something. Visit the catacombs. Start a new church. Convert some "heathens".

Vamp, it may be that avatar. I'm assuming it's not you, seems like an actress's picture. Maybe Gene Tierney, or Janet Leigh? Tough call. But it is fetching, an attention getter (don't worry, expect exactly zero emails or PMs from me).

Other interesting thing was E Chu ta in your sig. Only thing I can think of is Empire Strikes Back, some robot said that to C3PO...

[ConspiRaider]

You're speaking for yourself there of course. There are situations
where "focussing on the eyes of other men" will get you your ass
kicked (and not in a way you'd like).
Oh of course. I don't mean constantly, anyway. I've found that if you're NOT looking at a guy's eyes, then you're also not looking at other parts of him. You're looking elsewhere.

On the other hand I've tended to find that women have no problem looking at a guy from head to toe, and I absolutely don't mean she's trying to come onto him. It does not appear to be intrusive in either direction.

If someone is going to notice that your socks don't match, I'd bet on the woman picking that up every time before the guy.

[Miss Whiplash]

Bishop, hear some confessions and take a vacation to Rome or something. Visit the catacombs. Start a new church. Convert some "heathens".

Vamp, it may be that avatar. I'm assuming it's not you, seems like an actress's picture. Maybe Gene Tierney, or Janet Leigh? Tough call. But it is fetching, an attention getter (don't worry, expect exactly zero emails or PMs from me).

Other interesting thing was E Chu ta in your sig. Only thing I can think of is Empire Strikes Back, some robot said that to C3PO...

The avatar is Jean Seberg (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0781029/). He's seen my pic on Myspace (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=98084769), though. Maybe it's the leather coat or a stern schoolmistress fetish.

Yes, the phrase is from The Empire Strikes Back. Good catch!

[Tricky]

Can I start the competition for the world's worst gaydar? I submit myself as a prime candidate. I actually went out on four dates (at least I thought they were dates) with a girl before she finally had to take me aside and say, "Stop trying to kiss me, dammit. I like girls."

I'm no better with guys either. Paul was just a really good friend, I thought, until he suddenly kissed me on the lips at a New Year's Eve party. I'd like to think I didn't freak out, but he immediately apologized. For the record, we're still friends, but not "that kind" of friends. I'm happily married to a woman who has even worse gaydar than me. She tells me of the time when she "really thought it was just a pajama party for twenty-five-year-old women."

Let's hear it for the blissfully naive.

[Hokulele]

Equally bad here. I have two close relatives who are gay/lesbian, and in both cases I had no idea, until other relatives drew me aside to clue me in. Heck, my "strai-dar" is almost as bad. I generally can't tell the difference when someone is being friendly, flirtatious, or trying to get me to leave them the hell alone.

[ConspiRaider]

The avatar is Jean Seberg (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0781029/). He's seen my pic on Myspace (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=98084769), though. Maybe it's the leather coat or a stern schoolmistress fetish.

Yes, the phrase is from The Empire Strikes Back. Good catch!
Of course it's Jean Seberg :) I did some kind of a name cross-up with Gene Tierney.

I saw your Myspace pic and immediate impression was: Funny. There's this subtle humorous twinkle just barely perceptible in your eyes. That's my quick read, FWIW.

E Chu Ta!

How rude!

[ConspiRaider]

Equally bad here. I have two close relatives who are gay/lesbian, and in both cases I had no idea, until other relatives drew me aside to clue me in. Heck, my "strai-dar" is almost as bad. I generally can't tell the difference when someone is being friendly, flirtatious, or trying to get me to leave them the hell alone.
That's funny, Hokulele :)

Reminds me of when my first wife and I came over to Mom and Pop's for family dinner. My uncle was there, first time she met him.

When we got home later that night, she said: Your uncle's gay. "WHAT?" Trust me, he's gay.

She was right, we found out later. But not one of us kids saw it because we were so familiar with him.

[ConspiRaider]

Can I start the competition for the world's worst gaydar? I submit myself as a prime candidate. I actually went out on four dates (at least I thought they were dates) with a girl before she finally had to take me aside and say, "Stop trying to kiss me, dammit. I like girls."

I'm no better with guys either. Paul was just a really good friend, I thought, until he suddenly kissed me on the lips at a New Year's Eve party. I'd like to think I didn't freak out, but he immediately apologized. For the record, we're still friends, but not "that kind" of friends. I'm happily married to a woman who has even worse gaydar than me. She tells me of the time when she "really thought it was just a pajama party for twenty-five-year-old women."

Let's hear it for the blissfully naive.
:D :D :eek:

[SezMe]

Can I start the competition for the world's worst gaydar? I submit myself as a prime candidate.

Sorry, I've heard from a somewhat dicey source that you wife is even worse than you. :)

[Blue Mountain]

I wouldn't be surprised if the "gaydar" effect turns out to be confirmation bias. On the other hand, I've heard speculation the phenomenon may be pheromone based.
All I know is mine's totally unreliable, returning lots of false positives and false negatives. The false negatives are annoying ... I once missed an opportunity to get a boyfriend because I couldn't discern that he was gay. It was only when he got a boyfriend that I had confirmation.

On the other hand, false positives can be at best embarrasing and at worst physically dangerous.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

My best friend is a gay man and, if I can speak for him, I don't think he would take offense at the idea that gays express themselves differently for a second.

God knows he'd laugh at someone who having spent time with him wouldn't realize that he's gay.

Which isn't to say that every gay person acts like that or even most. My gaydar wouldn't have picked up on Reverend Ted Haggard in a million years so it's nothing inherent in homosexuality. It's behavior you pick up from your culture.

[SomeGuy]

For some reason I seem to get picked up by other men's gaydars quite frequently, I also seem to be able to pick up if someone is gay a bit earlier than most, men sooner than women though.

My wife sometimes jokes that I am a straight man captured in a gay body.

It's never bothered me that I got hit on by men, if there was ever any problem with getting hit on it was that not enough women were doing it. ;) I've never understood people panicking when they get hit on by a guy, for me it's exactly equal to being hit on by a girl I have no interest in, flattering but that's it. Especially now that I am in a monogamous relationship the difference between getting hit on by a man and getting hit on by a woman is completely gone.

I also believe that it's easier to pick up if someone is gay when you have neither negative nor positive connotations associated with it. For me homosexuality is about as neutral a trait as the color of someone's hair.

[Redtail]

Oh the stories I could tell about gaydar. Actually I've been told I'm an anomaly because I'm straight and I have a fairly good gaydar. Granted it's conked out on me at the worst possible times, which led me to grow donkey ears but there ya go.

BTW Vampire, How're things in NC? I miss it terribly.:(

[Tbone]

Can I start the competition for the world's worst gaydar? I submit myself as a prime candidate. I actually went out on four dates (at least I thought they were dates) with a girl before she finally had to take me aside and say, "Stop trying to kiss me, dammit. I like girls."

I'm no better with guys either. Paul was just a really good friend, I thought, until he suddenly kissed me on the lips at a New Year's Eve party. I'd like to think I didn't freak out, but he immediately apologized. For the record, we're still friends, but not "that kind" of friends. I'm happily married to a woman who has even worse gaydar than me. She tells me of the time when she "really thought it was just a pajama party for twenty-five-year-old women."

Let's hear it for the blissfully naive.

I'm going to go out a limb and say I have to you beat. My uncle is gay, and despite blatantly obvious mannerisms, I really didn't connect any dots; a) never had or talked a girlfriend in the many years I've known him well b) used to be in charge of floral arrangements at weddings and other services c) continually (read: carefully and neutrally) told stories about male friends and roommates.

But the real kicker is his website, which I had known about and seen many times before realizing. It is one of the most blatantly gay things (and I, of course, mean that stereotypically, not insultingly, if that's possible) I have ever seen. Unfortunately, I can't link it, as the cartoons contained therein may or may not break rules.... Said cartoons are also a dead giveaway, as well. Perhaps a moderator could approve it. Anyways, it is perhaps not as... active a story as the above, but it had me slapping my forehead afterward.

I'd like to think I'm not naive, so I'm either gaydar-jammed or stupid.

On the other hand, my uncle seems to have a very finely tuned gaydar (or bidar, in this case). He picked up (so he says) me some time ago, and I'm one of the most unassuming persons one can meet, or so everyone tells me, even him.

And for the "gay is genetic" crowd, I'm afraid my uncle is adopted, sorry ;). No proof here.

[tkingdoll]

So, does this apply to you and men? Can you tell who is het and who is not or is it still a hunch?

Teek, I think you are missing something here. If you meet me in a lesbian bar 95% of the time I can tell who is straight, who is power dyke and who is bi-curious. You will miss the most in the spot the dyke contest unless it's a 300 lb truck driver in a flannel shirt.

Tell me how I know and why you miss.

No, you are missing my point. You can point at people who ping your gaydar all day but you don't know if they are gay or not until they confirm it by some means.

Or are you saying you know for a fact that someone is gay without them ever confirming it? Because you can probably get Randi's million for that.

You can't use 'lesbian bar' as a sensible example of where gaydar works. Try 'the average office' instead. Or 'the supermarket'.

There are many subtle signals people pick up on to decide if someone is or isn't gay, but none of those signals make a fact. It's not until the person says "yes I'm gay" or snogs a member of the same sex in front of that you know if you are right or not. Up until that point, all you have is a hunch, not a fact.

Someone rating high on your gaydar doesn't mean they are gay. It just means you think they are.

Incidentally, I have spent a lot of time in gay bars and it's very easy to pick out the three types you mention. Clothing, confidence, behaviour, attitude, interaction, are all easy to read for many people. But that's what a hunch is - an educated guess, in this case based on clues. But you can point and say 'definitely dyke' til you're blue in the face, it means nothing unless that woman confirms it.

[Soapy Sam]

I have no idea how to tell someone's sexual orientation. I presume I never learned because I was never that interested, just as I can't identify car models , because I never bothered to pay attention. If people need me to know, they'll tell me. I'm 52. It never happened to me yet- or if it did, I failed to notice. (Or I've forgotten, which also happens more in your fifties).

I don't think "gaydar" is anything other than paying attention. Some folk can spot a lesser spotted woodpecker in a tree at fifty yards, because they pay attention to birds. Presumably the same goes for spotting classes of people, whether behavioural, gender , economic or whatever.

[TobiasTheViking]

I have no idea how to tell someone's sexual orientation. I presume I never learned because I was never that interested, just as I can't identify car models , because I never bothered to pay attention. If people need me to know, they'll tell me. I'm 52. It never happened to me yet- or if it did, I failed to notice. (Or I've forgotten, which also happens more in your fifties).

I don't think "gaydar" is anything other than paying attention. Some folk can spot a lesser spotted woodpecker in a tree at fifty yards, because they pay attention to birds. Presumably the same goes for spotting classes of people, whether behavioural, gender , economic or whatever.

so.. wait.. you WEREN'T hitting on me thursday morning at TAM before anyone else arrived for breakfest...


typical...

[calebprime]

If I immediately like a woman, she's a lesbian.

If a man seems friendly, and he's not trying to sell me something, then he's gay.

A psychiatrist (who had perfect SAT scores) once told me in all seriousness that all men with effeminate mannerisms were gay, and some with no effeminate mannerisms were also gay. But this was 25 years before the metrosexual. I wonder what he'd say now.

[tkingdoll]

If I immediately like a woman, she's a lesbian.

If a man seems friendly, and he's not trying to sell me something, then he's gay.



Wait, is that like how I used to think that any man who didn't look at me in the street was gay? :D

[Soapy Sam]

so.. wait.. you WEREN'T hitting on me thursday morning at TAM before anyone else arrived for breakfest...


typical...

Nope. I was just immensely relieved to find I was in the right hotel and the whole TAM thing wasn't just a practical joke Kittynh had made up.
:D

[Darat]

Tobias relieved you?

[Miss Whiplash]

But you can point and say 'definitely dyke' til you're blue in the face, it means nothing unless that woman confirms it.

But yet they do.

Or they just have "Towanda!" on their car or wearing labyrs jewelry.

[ChristineR]

My best friend is a gay man and, if I can speak for him, I don't think he would take offense at the idea that gays express themselves differently for a second.

God knows he'd laugh at someone who having spent time with him wouldn't realize that he's gay.

Which isn't to say that every gay person acts like that or even most. My gaydar wouldn't have picked up on Reverend Ted Haggard in a million years so it's nothing inherent in homosexuality. It's behavior you pick up from your culture.

A quote from my sister: Of course he's gay. It's obvious he's gay! Anyone who even looked at him would know he was gay!

I'm willing to call confirmation bias on this one, but the man does lisp.

[LTC8K6]

What if they pitch and catch?

[Miss Whiplash]

Oh the stories I could tell about gaydar. Actually I've been told I'm an anomaly because I'm straight and I have a fairly good gaydar. Granted it's conked out on me at the worst possible times, which led me to grow donkey ears but there ya go.

BTW Vampire, How're things in NC? I miss it terribly.:(

Gardenias are blooming and it's hot! :D

[supercorgi]

Edit: Always look for visual cues. Notice what people are wearing. Nine times out of ten, if a woman is wearing Brikenstocks, and certain clothing, it gives them away. I knew Ellen DeGeneres was gay the first time I saw her on Johnny Carson. Dockers, Hushpuppies or sneakers? Sistahhhhh!

You know I have a problem with this. I am a firmly hetero woman and yet I like to wear comfortable casual clothes (jeans or chinos, sweaters, polo shirts, etc). I always wear sneakers. I've even worn Birkenstocks (hey they're comfortable sandals and I have messed up feet!) I'm not a girly, girl. I don't usually wear makeup. I don't fuss over my clothes or my hair. I don't wear much jewelry. I don't act feminine (I like to put my feet up on my desk, etc).

I'd probably throw off anyone's gaydar. I'm sure my family thinks I'm gay because I've never married, I haven't had a relationship for many, many years, and I don't date.

One reason that I really liked the Ellen show before she came out was because it was a comedy about an older single woman who wasn't guy crazy. In comedies, it seems as though the goal in life of every single woman is to find a man. I found it refreshing that Ellen's character was different. Well, I guess now we know why.

[Soapy Sam]

Tobias relieved you?

Indeed. (In a hotel lobby too!).

But Tobias (altogether) "is not gay"!

I reckon the easiest way to spot gay men is their inability to resist double entendre.

(Just listen to any rerun of "Round the Horne"):D

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

A quote from my sister: Of course he's gay. It's obvious he's gay! Anyone who even looked at him would know he was gay!

I'm willing to call confirmation bias on this one, but the man does lisp.

I'm calling confirmation bias on this one, too. I'd have sooner doubted my own heterosexuality than Reverend Ted's.

I'm so happy he's gay :D. I've been argueing for gay ministers for years!

[Miss Whiplash]

You know I have a problem with this. I am a firmly hetero woman and yet I like to wear comfortable casual clothes (jeans or chinos, sweaters, polo shirts, etc). I always wear sneakers. I've even worn Birkenstocks (hey they're comfortable sandals and I have messed up feet!) I'm not a girly, girl. I don't usually wear makeup. I don't fuss over my clothes or my hair. I don't wear much jewelry. I don't act feminine (I like to put my feet up on my desk, etc).

I'd probably throw off anyone's gaydar. I'm sure my family thinks I'm gay because I've never married, I haven't had a relationship for many, many years, and I don't date.

One reason that I really liked the Ellen show before she came out was because it was a comedy about an older single woman who wasn't guy crazy. In comedies, it seems as though the goal in life of every single woman is to find a man. I found it refreshing that Ellen's character was different. Well, I guess now we know why.

All jokes aside, I think the Birkenstock thing came from Lilly Tomlin's, The Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe .

[kmortis]

Wait, is that like how I used to think that any man who didn't look at me in the street was gay? :D
Or blind.

Actually, there could be a very good evolutionary reason for "gaydar". think about it, if you are more successful at determining those that are NOT interested in reproduction (by mean of being attracted to the same sex), then you can not waste your time to persuing them as possible mates.

Of course, if the homosexual rate is really a smallish number (last I heard was 10%, but that could be part of the 53% of all statistics that are made up on the spot), then it's not all that big of a deal.

I've had two lesbians and a gay man come out to me, all three times my response was "and?", I don't know what that says about my gaydar calibration.

[Deetee]

My "male" gaydar is pretty fine tuned. I guess it relates to an acquired familiarity with the mannerisms and appearances of gay men. It didn't always used to be this way - hell I remember being surprised that Freddie Mercury was gay (to be fair, I had only just moved to the UK from Africa where I was born and bred, and where a moustache was a bristling badge of macho heterosexuality - I even had one myself; it came off pretty quick I can tell you!).

In the UK I work in the medical infectious diseases field and encounter plenty of gay men and not an insubstantial number of gay fellow workers. I can make an almost immediate impression of whether someone is gay or not, and because of my professional occupation, I then get to ask them and find out afterwards if I was right or wrong.

Sometimes I score "false positive" on the gaydar - someone is hetero when I would have sworn they were gay (but then for some people you can never know if they have revealed everything - I've seen too many "hetero" men mysteriously acquire an infection that later turns out to have been caught from an "isolated" male contact!)

More problematic for my gaydar are the "false negatives" - for some guys you'd swear were straight, you then find out they are not. These are harder to detect.

[Bikewer]

It should be fairly obvious to anyone who's been around a while that there are greatly varying degrees of "femininity" (for lack of a better word) amongst gay males.
Some have pretty obvious physical mannerisms and characteristics, including voice inflection, posture, movement, etc. I have long suspected that this might well indicate a certain developmental factor in at least some percentage of homosexuality.
Some of this is cultural, of course, and some gay men are able to "turn off" such behaviors as the situation demands. A good friend of ours was normally so "straight" in behavior that many of our other friends refused to believe he was gay. (though he'd lived with the same man for 30 years...)
However, after a few drinks, he could "act up" pretty well.

Other gay men are quite masculine in appearance and manner, and are apparently quite undetectable, at least to casual acquaintance.

Children are adept at picking out "different" children of all types, and the well-studied phenomenon of so-called "sissy boys" has been written up in sociological journals and books. These individuals are often noticeably effeminate even at a very young age, which again tends to reinforce a certain developmental contribution.

[steve s]

I thought a mullet was a fish...but dictionary.com helped out with that one. .

You need to educate yourself on all things mullet.

Mullets Galore website. (http://www.mulletsgalore.com/)
Just click on the Classifications link and then the Go buttons next to the sections.

My personal favorites are #s 14, 40, 54, and 82.

Steve S.

[Miss Whiplash]

I still see a #9 every now and then.

[Wainscotting]

My gaydar went off when some seedy old guy started showing me pictures of penises on his mobile phone at a bus stop.:scared:

It went off again when I was working at Burger King and another seedy old guy started flirting with me over the counter. I had only just come out, so everyone else thought it was great fun.

:boxedin: I didn't.

[ilikefrogs]

I can't read men to save my life, but my 'dar towards women is remarkably accurate. I can't speak for anyone else, but I can have mine go off if I just catch someone out of the corner of my eye. (Makes it very uncomfortable, too, since it feels like an itch inside my skull that I can't scratch...)

I have had my gaydar confirmed several times, either by having her girlfriend walk up and take her hand, or seeing her get in a car with a rainbow sticker.

[Z]

An amusing anecdote about rainbow stickers... my mother-in-law spent some time at a Christian music camp, who had as their bumper sticker - a rainbow. Rainbow t-shirts, rainbow stickers, everything.

I snicker every time I see my mother-in-law's car, and whenever we're out and she points out a rainbow sticker (thinking the people went to the same camp) it's all I can do to keep from laughing out loud.

[Complexity]

Men reading men is a complex operation, constant and ongoing. Typically, straight men focus almost exclusively on the eyes of other men.

I saw a description of a study that was posted within the last two months that monitored people's eyes while they looked at photographs of other people.

http://www.kottke.org/07/03/men-look-at-crotches

Women tended to look primarily at the faces of men.

Men, straight or gay, looked at the faces and crotches of men fairly equally. Guys check out other guys.

[Hokulele]

I saw a description of a study that was posted within the last two months that monitored people's eyes while they looked at photographs of other people.

Women tended to look primarily at the faces of men.

Men, straight or gay, looked at the faces and crotches of men fairly equally. Guys check out other guys.


And I can probably guess which portion of the woman's anatomy the men were looking at (straight and gay from what my gay relatives/friends tell me). ;)

[Complexity]

Funny, but the article didn't discuss looking at women.

I found the article: http://www.kottke.org/07/03/men-look-at-crotches

[Hokulele]

Funny, but the article didn't discuss looking at women.

:(

[ConspiRaider]

I saw a description of a study that was posted within the last two months that monitored people's eyes while they looked at photographs of other people.

http://www.kottke.org/07/03/men-look-at-crotches

Women tended to look primarily at the faces of men.

Men, straight or gay, looked at the faces and crotches of men fairly equally. Guys check out other guys.
Yeah but I wasn't talking about photographs, C. I meant real life, out and about.

One of the funniest commercials was one of the beer ones, bud or miller. Anyway it was the one with Randy Cross, former center for an NFL team (I'm thinking Oakland). I don't remember exactly how it went, but a woman comes up to the bar, he's there, she sees his face, no recognition, nothing. Randy drops something and bends over to pick it up, butt sticking out prominently. And she says: Hey, are you Randy Cross?

In real life when I'm dealing with men? Let's say at the office, work environment? I can't recall looking at a guy's crotch. And I've never detected a guy looking at mine - unless he's "interested".

It's one of the great things about men wearing suits to the office, and typically dark suits. As far as most men are concerned - who cares? Who the hell cares what the guy is dressed like?

[jezzedout]

Interesting thread. Think I'll chime in with a few comments on the subject.

I used to have no sense for gay vs. hetero, however, after 15 years in LA, my "gaydar" as one might call it has become much more evolved. In simple and very general terms, some gay men have body language that tends to lean towards effeminate, such as the way they hold their hands or the way they might wiggle their backside when they walk. Sometimes it's their evolved sense of style that gives it away, such as wearing a bold color or style that no heterosexual man would be caught dead in. Sometimes, it's a verbal clue, sort of a gay dialect, similar in a way to valley girl speak from the 80s. With that said, however, I have also known gay men who exhibit none of those mannerisms, verbal, or style clues, and are as "macho" as any heterosexual man. If they didn't tell you they were gay, you'd never know it.

I had a co-worker several years ago who I thought was simply a shy man. I had no idea he was gay until he showed up at the company holiday party with his partner. On the other hand, I had a roommate for a while who claims to be hetero, however, nearly everyone who meets him, men and women alike, all come away believing he's gay. I've always sort of felt bad for him with that. ((-:

Anyway, I'm a huge reality tv watcher, and was amused a few months ago when I came across a show on the Fox Reality Channel called "Playing It Straight." The idea was that there was one girl, and 14 men. Not all of the men were hetero -- many were gay. Each episode, the girl had to eliminate two men from the group, until there was only one man left, presumably the man who captured her heart. If the girl fell for a straight man, the couple would get $200K to split between them. But if she fell for a gay man, the gay man would take the entire $200K and the girl would walk away empty handed and presumably broken hearted. From an audience perspective, the gay men were instructed to speak to the cameras in their personal diaryroom entries as though they were all hetero, so the audience was playing the same guessing game as the girl was. I didn't completely keep track of my guesses, but I can say this. There were many gay men who I thought for sure were straight, and there were several straight men who I thought for sure were gay. I'd probably say in the end, I only guessed correctly about 20% of the time, which as we all know here on the JREF forum, is what one could expect by chance. I think in this case though, the gay men were actually trying to pass themselves as being straight, several of them going to far as to makeout with the girl so that they would be the one she would choose and they would get to keep the $200K. So in the end, I don't know that it was really a great situation for testing gaydar abilities.

[jezzedout]

Yes, the phrase is from The Empire Strikes Back. Good catch!

Totally off topic, but... Vampire, are you a Star Wars fan?

I went to the Celebration IV convention last weekend at the LA Convention Center. It was seriously the most fun I've had in years!!!

[Complexity]

ConspiRaider - I'd be surprised if most people are aware of where their eyes spend time.

If a straight guy approaches a woman and it turns out she's not interested, he'll probably take a hit in the self-esteem and, maybe, a slap, but that's probably all.

If a gay guy approaches a guy and it turns out he's straight, a lot more is at risk - the straight guy might take offense at the thought that he could be mistaken for gay, or simply upset that gays exist, and the gay guy could end up hit, beat up, or killed.

I think that gaydar is simply a heightened awareness that is of particular value for gay males. Many people have it with varying degrees of accuracy, while others are oblivious to the whole thing.

Several people have made reference to gaydar keying in on effeminate behaviors, physicality, speech, etc. You'd be surprised how many men who have some effeminate aspects are straight, though that is often an indicator.

The tough part is recognizing that a guy who slips easily into one of the all-American stereotypes (e.g. jock, soldier, blue-collar worker, fireman, cowboy) or simply the guy next door is gay, bi, gay-for-trade, or some other variety of non-straight. You'd probably be amazed how many guys fall into this category.

I'm glad to say that I hear more straight guys that get approached by another guy are taking it as a compliment rather than a threat to their manhood, but there are still a lot of guys that will take offense.

[SYLVESTER1592]

:(

It was tested by Penn and Teller: looking at women that is...

HnQNx3L0_U8

I guess it states the obvious. Not like we didn't know already...

SYL :)

[Hokulele]

Anyway it was the one with Randy Cross, former center for an NFL team (I'm thinking Oakland).


Psst, ConspiRaider, don't let any SF fans hear you say this (he was with the 'Niners).

It was tested by Penn and Teller: looking at women that is...

HnQNx3L0_U8

I guess it states the obvious. Not like we didn't know already...

SYL :)


Linky no worky.

[Kaylee]

Edit: Always look for visual cues. Notice what people are wearing. Nine times out of ten, if a woman is wearing Brikenstocks, and certain clothing, it gives them away. I knew Ellen DeGeneres was gay the first time I saw her on Johnny Carson. Dockers, Hushpuppies or sneakers? Sistahhhhh!

You know I have a problem with this. I am a firmly hetero woman and yet I like to wear comfortable casual clothes (jeans or chinos, sweaters, polo shirts, etc). I always wear sneakers. I've even worn Birkenstocks (hey they're comfortable sandals and I have messed up feet!) I'm not a girly, girl. I don't usually wear makeup. I don't fuss over my clothes or my hair. I don't wear much jewelry. I don't act feminine (I like to put my feet up on my desk, etc).

I'd probably throw off anyone's gaydar. ...

I agree with you Supercorgi! My footwear of choice is a pair of sneakers, I prefer jeans, my skin destroys makeup and I don't always have time to constantly reapply it.

I'd hate to think people would think that I"m gay just because of that. I'd at least want a nice juicy rumour floating around to back that hunch up! :D

Seriously, I think most people realize/assume that I'm straight, but I know that at least a few people have assumed that I'm not. {shrug}

[malbui]

I'm interested in how signals change, or are perceived to change, in different countries. I'm not aware of ever having been approached by another man in most of the countries I've lived in (France, UK, Ireland), but when I was a postgrad in Germany it was a regular occurrence. I wasn't doing anything different to what I usually did, but something about me was setting off their gaydar.

(It might also be worthy of mention that my success rate with German ladies was markedly lower than with other nationalities, so clearly I was completely in the wrong place there :( .)

[ConspiRaider]

Psst, ConspiRaider, don't let any SF fans hear you say this (he was with the 'Niners).

Thanks for straightening me out on that, H, holy friggin' Toledo I hope no San Franciscans noticed :boxedin:

Come to think of it, even though I primarily focus on a guy's eyes in this case I'll make an exception and confess. Randy DID have a nice caboose, yes?

[Hokulele]

Come to think of it, even though I primarily focus on a guy's eyes in this case I'll make an exception and confess.


That might be your problem. If you are the nose tackle in a 3-4 defense, you really should be watching the center's chest or hips. However, if you are a defensive end, watch the QB's eyes.

Randy DID have a nice caboose, yes?


Yes!

[ConspiRaider]

That might be your problem. If you are the nose tackle in a 3-4 defense, you really should be watching the center's chest or hips. However, if you are a defensive end, watch the QB's eyes.
I think my problem during my Cleveland Browns tryout (cough) is that as a defensive end I was trying to eyeball the defensive "end" of the defensive end clear across the field. How could I not? Thing was at least as juicy as Randy Cross's. As a result the tight end would roll over me every time. Not that I minded so much. But, the coaching staff did and they sent me packing...

[Hokulele]

I think my problem during my Cleveland Browns tryout (cough) is that as a defensive end I was trying to eyeball the defensive "end" of the defensive end clear across the field. How could I not? Thing was at least as juicy as Randy Cross's. As a result the tight end would roll over me every time. Not that I minded so much. But, the coaching staff did and they sent me packing...


I suppose you could then have tried out for the cheerleading squad. You would have had a legitimate reason to follow the action . . .


ETA: Hey, did I just manage to completely derail a thread that was created as a result of a major derail? Cool.

[Fronzel]

Dwight gets a Gaydar (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJQqjl1IV5k)

[Wainscotting]

All my friends from school were shocked and confused when I came out - took them completely by surprise. But all my friends whom I had met in just the past year already knew I was gay - which took me by surprise.

It took me four years and a disastrously failed relationship to come to terms with being gay, and maybe the fact that I had decided to come out made it more obvious to those who I met during that time. I don't do anything overtly 'gay' - indeed, I'm quite the antithesis of a 'flamer' - but there must be a lot of subtle things to pick up on, and it seems to me that the more you're exposed to gay men and women, the more attuned your gaydar becomes.

[superbu]

As a gay guy myself, I believe in "gaydar." What it is, I couldn't tell you. It's not 100% accurate -- maybe 50 to 75 percent.

It's a combination of the way people move, the way the voice sounds, the way they dress, and this indefinable "something," like the indefinable something that makes someone a star. For example, I remember reading an interview with Barbra Streisand, where she related how she and her manager took Madonna out for lunch before she was famous, and she said you could just TELL even then that Madonna was going to be a huge star. But not every gay guy gives off these "signals."

I find many gay men seem to sort of carry themselves differently -- not just the way they move, but this sort of... prissy demeanor that you can see even when they're just sitting still. Many gay men seem to be sort of overly-groomed -- a little too perfect perfect hair, a little more attention to their appearance than even the vainest straight guy would pay.

And there's something else. A few years ago, a female friend I worked with asked me, "What is it about gay guys? So many of them actually LOOK different. Don't take this the wrong way, but they actually look physically different in the face... like Down Syndrome kids."

I laughed, but I got to thinking about it, and she's right. A fair number of gay guys really do have a different look about their face. It's like... a higher forehead, high cheekbones, and this sort of... slightly "pinched" look to their face. I don't know how to explain it. But I've bounced this off other gay friends (none of whom do have this appearance) and they agreed with me.

All I know is I've had many people, mostly women, tell me they knew immediately, the second I walked in the room, that I was gay. I ask how they know. Some responses:

"I don't know, gay guys just seem to put out this different energy."

"Oh... just mannerisms."

"You can just tell."

And as carefully closeted as I once was, I was always surprised to find out from coworkers that, "Everyone at work knows you're gay. They all talk about it. Everyone knows."

Which is part of what led me to stop being so closeted -- everyone always seemed to know anyway. :)

[Silly Green Monkey]

For those with gaydar--what's it say about me?

[Complexity]

I have to see a person for a bit, preferably interacting with other people, before sense of what his or her interests are. Some are easy, some I flipflop on, and I love the ones that keep me guessing.

[Wainscotting]

For those with gaydar--what's it say about me?

You're off the chart.:roll:

[Sir Robin Goodfellow]

Hmmmm... every woman I've ever asked out has turned out to be a homosexual, or so they said.

[jezzedout]

Hmmmm... every woman I've ever asked out has turned out to be a homosexual, or so they said.

You poor man :D

[Pup]

Hmmmm... every woman I've ever asked out has turned out to be a homosexual, or so they said.

I was about to say, you lucky girl! :D

[Sir Robin Goodfellow]

I'm sure they were telling the truth. Just like the one who had to wash her hair. I can't imagine they'd lie.:D

[ConspiRaider]

Ran across this interesting article today, called:
The Science of Gaydar

http://nymag.com/news/features/33520/

I'll bet every guy who reads this ('specially us str8 types) are immediately going to check out the direction of their hair whorl. :)

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Ran across this interesting article today, called:
The Science of Gaydar

http://nymag.com/news/features/33520/

I'll bet every guy who reads this ('specially us str8 types) are immediately going to check out the direction of their hair whorl. :)

Cool article :D . It even mentioned exclusively homosexual animals, which many people try to deny.

And yes, I ran off to check my hair whorl, and check my finger lengths. But they gave me contradicting results... Now how to measure my hypothalamus :confused: .

[ConspiRaider]

Cool article :D . It even mentioned exclusively homosexual animals, which many people try to deny.

And yes, I ran off to check my hair whorl, and check my finger lengths. But they gave me contradicting results... Now how to measure my hypothalamus :confused: .
I gots the hetero hair whorl and the hetero finger length, but:

I have dense fingerprints on my hypothalamus!!! And it's short than my ring finger!

I'M GONNA HANG OUT ON SANTA MONICA BOULEVARD EVERY NIGHT FROM HERE ON OUT!!!111one!11!!

[Pipirr]

Left handed, and a counter clockwise whorl. I dance real well, too....

Which my wife likes :D

[Wainscotting]

My hair is straight. My left hand says I'm straight, but my Right hand says I'm gay. Does that make me Bi?

No wonder I had such a tough time coming out. I was sending myself all the wrong signals.

Here's a thing: My eyes automatically glance at women's breasts - which I assume is instinct - but they do absolutely nothing for me, except make me feel like a pervert. I find I check out guys and girls at about the same rate, but only guys get me interested (I don't feel like a pervert when I check out guys, but I am cautious - I don't want to get a smack in the nose)

[-Fran-]

(I don't feel like a pervert when I check out guys, but I am cautious - I don't want to get a smack in the nose)

I never understood why that makes so many men angry.. shouldn't they be flattered, really? :confused:

[Cleon]

I never understood why that makes so many men angry.. shouldn't they be flattered, really? :confused:

Extremely insecure males see it as a threat to their heterosexuality.

In short: It's because guys are stupid. :P

[-Fran-]

Extremely insecure males see it as a threat to their heterosexuality.

In short: It's because guys are stupid. :P

It's a special kind of stupidity all right :D Only wished it was a rare one too :rolleyes:

[SYLVESTER1592]

Psst, ConspiRaider, don't let any SF fans hear you say this (he was with the 'Niners).

Linky no worky.

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Linky worky pretty goood for mi...

Many of the Penn and Teller videos were removed, but this one still works fine. Just click I AGREE and it should work...

SYL :)

[SYLVESTER1592]

It's a special kind of stupidity all right :D Only wished it was a rare one too :rolleyes:

That's no fair... :)
It is a compliment, but they are still guys, and guys can be somewhat persistent, even when the ship has already sailed. When they don't get what they want, they sometimes get nasty...

That's the part that makes the compliment less appealing and sometimes the compliment turns into an outright personal attack. I like the compliment, but I can do without the nastiness.

SYL :)

[-Fran-]

but they are still guys, and guys can be somewhat persistent, even when the ship has already sailed. When they don't get what they want, they sometimes get nasty...
SYL :)

OK, I take that back :) Now it seems like ALL guys are stupid, both gay and hetero :D (I am just joking :) )

[SYLVESTER1592]

OK, I take that back :) Now it seems like ALL guys are stupid, both gay and hetero :D (I am just joking :) )
I'm sorry, I think it's genetic:wackywubclub:

SYL :)

[-Fran-]

I'm sorry, I think it's genetic:wackywubclub:

SYL :)

Aww :) I think that there is why you so often get away with it too ;)

[SYLVESTER1592]

:)