Stubborn Fundy

[gypsey]

why is it that fundy Christians are so darn stubborn and thick headed?
my husband went fundy about 9 or 10 years ago and has steadily deteriorated since and his latest little "thing" is driving me nuts,
he is into jack chick and I hate jack chick with a passion, we have have argued about it for a year or so and i really thought he understood how i felt but this morning i get up to find a chick track on my desk with a note about how great it is and how he thinks i will enjoy it, it's the heart problem track and whats even sicker is i have a serious heart condition,
it's as if by buying into his brand of sick fantasy my condition will go away, it is so hard to not rant and rave right now
i have long ago lost any respect i had for him but this just seems so low and it's as if my feelings don't matter at all and the calm talk that we had about it never happened, no he doesn't know i am an atheist, another conversation he "forgot" and i haven't pressed, it's like nothing i say is important enough to remember but if jack chick say's it or if some freakin fundy say's something he can quote it word for word,
i can shrug off most stuff but he knows that i am very stressed right now and it's like blood in the water to him, I'm ready to scream but have to stay calm :rolleyes:
i really can't just leave him or i would have been long gone but there are reasons to stay even if at this point they are pretty mercenary so i guess all i really am asking is are all fundy's this irritating and self centered, are they all self righteous jerks that are so thick they can't comprehend the pain they cause everyone around them,
has anyone else ever had to deal with this and how the $^&@ did you do it without hitting something

[MelBrooksfan]

Is there no way for your differing belief systems to live in harmony? Also, c'mon. Chick Tracts are hilarious. Evil. But funny.

[gypsey]

well we did for about 12 years when he was a normal christian guy and i was just agnostic, he went fundy and i guess forgot why we got married in the first place, you know the whole love and respect for each other and talking out our differences and treating each other as a partner, now he treats me like the brainless helpless little female and i try to just be quiet and patient, somewhere under his fundy armor is the sweet loving smart funny person i married but he is getting buried deeper every day,
as for chick well yeah i used to love reading them and hubby and i both thought they were silly little bits of nothing but i have a hard time looking at them that way anymore, the same man who used to think that falwell (thank dog he's dead) and robertson were evil jokes now listens to anything written or spoken by them, the guy who wanted our kids to think for themselves and got mad when my mom tried to force them into church now gets upset because i refuse to force my grandkids,
so chick is just the kinda last straw i guess

[Azure]

Oh but wait...someone was just trying to tell me that ALL Christians should be fundamental in their beliefs.

Of course that same person doesn't know the difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament...so I wouldn't listen to him/her.

I know from experience that fundamental Christians are a pain in the ass. Especially those that refuse to believe evolution is a 'known' fact.

I feel sorry for you.

[Freethinker]

Stubborn and thick-headed are prerequisites for being a fundy.

[The_Fire]

Stubborn and thick-headed are prerequisites for being a fundy.

...No matter what the religion.

[FenrisWolf]

If you're an atheist, you probably agree that there's no afterlife. One life is all we get. Is it worth spending the rest of your precious time alive, which is all too short, with someone who treats you this way?

Consider meeting with a divorce lawyer to make sure your assumptions about needing to stay with him "for mercenary reasons" (by which I assume you mean, his salary and health insurance) are truly correct. Perhaps your financial needs can be met through some combination of alimony and your own work.

I'm just some guy on the internet with no idea what your situation is, so forgive me if this advice is unwelcome.

[Azure]

If you're an atheist, you probably agree that there's no afterlife. One life is all we get. Is it worth spending the rest of your precious time alive, which is all too short, with someone who treats you this way?

Consider meeting with a divorce lawyer to make sure your assumptions about needing to stay with him "for mercenary reasons" (by which I assume you mean, his salary and health insurance) are truly correct. Perhaps your financial needs can be met through some combination of alimony and your own work.

I'm just some guy on the internet with no idea what your situation is, so forgive me if this advice is unwelcome.

x2....especially if he treats you like dirt.

[Kochanski]

gypsey, I say turnabout is fair play, leave him a copy of The God Delusion with a note about how good it is and how you think he will enjoy it :D

Either that or get a big black marker and write all over the front of the chick stupidity in very large letters I HATE THIS CRAP DO NOT GIVE ME ANY OF IT AGAIN. You can also put big Xs across each of the pages inside. At least if he wants to give you another, he won't be able to give you that one back again and might think twice about it (if you can get him to think at all). And it might vent a little of your anger and frustration.

I can't imagine holding in your frustration with his treatment of you is very good for you at all. Why not blow up at him. He seems to not notice your calm talk.

Just things I would do, don't know if any of this will get through to him, I am afraid once they go fundy the brain sort of shuts off to many things.

[Jon.]

gypsey, I say turnabout is fair play, leave him a copy of The God Delusion with a note about how good it is and how you think he will enjoy it :D

Or Kissing Hank's Ass (http://www.jhuger.com/kisshank), or one of several other things from JHuger's site.

[kerikiwi]

I get angry when I hear people say that must stay in abusive relationships because of lack of choice. Not angry at the people but at the circumstances. And how can it be anything but abusive if you don't even have any respect for him?
It's easy for me to say as I depend on 'nobody for nothing', but as FenrisWolf said, this is your only life, with the emphasis on your. Leave.

[ImaginalDisc]

Divorce him. If you've spent ten years in a fruitless relationship that generated nothing but grief and aggravation, get rid of him. If he really is the sweet man you married under the lies and nonsense, maybe he can look you up some time when you're kickin' it in the Caribbean with Paulo the pool boy. You deserve better than to put yourself through hell day in and day out.

[Miss Anthrope]

While not knowing the ins and outs of your relationship, in theory I wholly agree with the mantra of "your only life to live.....LIVE IT".

Life is far too short for this kind of grief. You have lost respect for him, and he clearly does not respect you. Sure, it can be said he loves you and is trying to save you from hell, but YOU know better than to buy into that nonsense.

[Darth Rotor]

why is it that fundy Christians are so darn stubborn and thick headed?
my husband went fundy about 9 or 10 years ago and has steadily deteriorated since and his latest little "thing" is driving me nuts,
he is into jack chick and I hate jack chick with a passion, we have have argued about it for a year or so and i really thought he understood how i felt but this morning i get up to find a chick track on my desk with a note about how great it is and how he thinks i will enjoy it, it's the heart problem track and whats even sicker is i have a serious heart condition,
it's as if by buying into his brand of sick fantasy my condition will go away, it is so hard to not rant and rave right now
i have long ago lost any respect i had for him but this just seems so low and it's as if my feelings don't matter at all and the calm talk that we had about it never happened, no he doesn't know i am an atheist, another conversation he "forgot" and i haven't pressed, it's like nothing i say is important enough to remember but if jack chick say's it or if some freakin fundy say's something he can quote it word for word,
i can shrug off most stuff but he knows that i am very stressed right now and it's like blood in the water to him, I'm ready to scream but have to stay calm :rolleyes:
i really can't just leave him or i would have been long gone but there are reasons to stay even if at this point they are pretty mercenary so i guess all i really am asking is are all fundy's this irritating and self centered, are they all self righteous jerks that are so thick they can't comprehend the pain they cause everyone around them,
has anyone else ever had to deal with this and how the $^&@ did you do it without hitting something
From your stream of consciousness raving, I gather that you got married before he "went fundy." Were you both church going people, agnostic, atheist, casual Christians? What were you when you got married, in that regard.

Also, why did he go fundy without you? What was the circumstance where only one of you followed that path? Right there, a massive obstacle to your marriage was built, and it does not seem that either of you looked to make gates in the wall growing between you.

If you were never of the Faith, one of three things will happen.

He'll lose this new found Faith of his, in which case you two may reconcile and try to heal.

You will get "Born Again" and join him his Faith. (Does not seem likely from your rant.)

You two will not resolve what is becoming an irreconcilable difference, and will need to dissolve the marriage.

A fourth possibility is that he will, with counsel from his pastor, find a way to quit being so blind to your difference in outlook and moderate his approach. This sounds possible, albeit unlikely, from your side of the story.

As a first step, you need a marriage counsellor, at the least, to help you both work out the chances of finding common ground on which to build the path back togetherness. If you simply grow more and more disagreeable over this significant issue, the bond you created with your vows will crack and break.

Make the appointment, with him, and sell it as a move to save your marriage.

If that doesn't work: do you want to live the rest of your life with this kind of strife? I would not want to.

DR

[Achán hiNidráne]

If his religious beliefs are making you uncomfortable to the point where you can no longer live with him, you're going to have to confront him about this. If his new-found beliefs are more important than you are, you're going to have to let him go for your sake.

[fuelair]

Oh but wait...someone was just trying to tell me that ALL Christians should be fundamental in their beliefs.

Of course that same person doesn't know the difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament...so I wouldn't listen to him/her.

I know from experience that fundamental Christians are a pain in the ass. Especially those that refuse to believe evolution is a 'known' fact.

I feel sorry for you. I think he might have meant that the beliefs of many Xtians come out of their fundaments - I assume that is why they are called fundamentalists.

[fuelair]

well we did for about 12 years when he was a normal christian guy and i was just agnostic, he went fundy and i guess forgot why we got married in the first place, you know the whole love and respect for each other and talking out our differences and treating each other as a partner, now he treats me like the brainless helpless little female and i try to just be quiet and patient, somewhere under his fundy armor is the sweet loving smart funny person i married but he is getting buried deeper every day,
as for chick well yeah i used to love reading them and hubby and i both thought they were silly little bits of nothing but i have a hard time looking at them that way anymore, the same man who used to think that falwell (thank dog he's dead) and robertson were evil jokes now listens to anything written or spoken by them, the guy who wanted our kids to think for themselves and got mad when my mom tried to force them into church now gets upset because i refuse to force my grandkids,
so chick is just the kinda last straw i guessI have a couple of Cthulhu pamphlets if it would help (seriously, my condolences on a bad situation - and I hope it can be cleared up to your advantage!)..

[slingblade]

Even the bible is on your side, or the side of Splitsville, anyway.

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? And what communion hath light with darkness?" 2 Corinthians 6:14 (KJV)

So, come on back to the Dark Side. Better cookies and all that.
:hug5

[gypsey]

first let me say thank you for all of the response's,

Azhure
most fundy's don't seem to know much about that book of theirs!
don't feel sorry for me please I got myself into this and have to be a big girl now, he used to be the first to laugh at people who denied evolution and i have a hard time understanding how he can now be one of them but what can i do



Freethinker
i do believe you are right


The_Fire
that sure seems to be the case

to everyone,
i normally don't whine about this mess of mine so thank you again for reading and responding, i guess i just wondered if anyone else had been this trapped with a fundy and yes this morning i really felt trapped but i got over myself and i'm ok now i guess, i'm going to try to answer everyone else so here goes

[gypsey]

FenrisWolf
i have always tried to live as if this might be my last day on earth, i used to love life and wanted to make my one shot really count, i'm too tired to do as much but i still try to enjoy as much as i can, you are almost right, the mercenary motives do include the insurance, my health has gotten so bad that with out it i wouldn't be here long, but thats not the biggest thing even tho if we divorce my coverage ends, champus/tricare does not cover ex spouse's,
one of the things is that right now there is life insurance on both of us and if anything happens, our kids and grandkids are taken care of,
if we split he will drop the policies because he believes that "god" will provide for them, i know this for a fact because he has tried several times to get me to drop the insurance, not gonna happen!!
i know this is gonna sound horrible but also i believe i have earned the right to be taken care of by him at this point but it is a really looooong story,
i asked for the advice so it is welcome even if i feel i can't follow it, thank you

[gypsey]

Kochanski
i really thought about this one hard, i guess i have just gotten to the point that it's not worth it to argue anymore and that would lead to a doozy of an argument:p , i usually just write it out in my journal and try to get over myself before he comes home, my doc say's i have to keep "calm" i tried to talk him into taking hubby and the rest of the family off my hands for a week or so but he has known us for years so he just laughed at me and asked if i was trying to give HIM the heart attack:jaw-dropp ,
i try not to hold the frustration in because you are right it's not good for me, like i said i write it out or call my doctor or do like i did this morning,
i accidentally on purpose spilled all of his precious hand ground coffee beans and then called to tell him he would have to buy more before he can have his morning coffee and since he orders the stuff it will be at least a week:duck:

[gypsey]

kerikiwi
i do understand what you are saying, i left my first husband more than 23 years ago because of abuse and i wasn't dependent on anything back then, things this time really are more complicated and the lose of respect is more for the fact that an extremely intelligent man can turn so stupid over an old book of myths and legends and somewhat over the rest of it, i have a real problem with people who are deliberately stupid and thats what this feels like to me, everyone has a right to be stupid but fundies seem to abuse the privilege
i have pretty much lived my life out with only one or two things that with hindsight i would tweak a little, maybe this will pass like everything eventually does and there is no physical danger except to him if i ever snap:mad:

[gypsey]

ImaginalDisc
it has been a very loooong ten years but up until a year or so ago when my body decided it had had enough and tried to put in it's two week notice :rolleyes: things were so much easier,
i had a house full of kids i had taken in and a three acre garden and a four wheeler to ride and so much more, my life was so full that i didn't have time to let him pull me down, i had a million things to make me happy and give me the patients to deal with him, now there isn't a lot left so i have to deal with him more and more and he seems to get more fundy as each day goes by, if divorce or leaving were a real option right now i think i would go but it really isn't
i don't know about paulo but i might see if i could "borrow nikki sixx for a long week in the mountains:D :cool:

[gypsey]

Miss Anthrope
it's strange but if asked he swears he respects me more than any woman he knows and i believe that at one time he did but he tries to treat me biblically or some such nonsense, he's always quoting scripture about the good wife and usually it just gets an eye roll:rolleyes: ,
he really thinks he's doing all he does to save my "soul" ,he told his cult leader that i was his pearl without price or whatever that verse says, yes it is demeaning sometimes but he really doesn't mean to hurt me he's just so frakin buried in this fundy nonsense and i let it get to me this morning with the chick @#$%

[GodMark2]

Stubborn and thick-headed are prerequisites for being a fundy.

Fundamentalist thougt process:

1. Knowledge is Power.

2. Power corrupts.

3. I must stay away from corruption at all costs.

Well, that's a no-brainer.

[gypsey]

Darth Rotor
when we met he was a pretty devoted christain but he was miles away from fundy, an old earth kinda deist i guess, god created the world millions of years ago, came back created man and then left us to earn our way to heaven,
i was an agnostic,i didn't believe in god really but figured there might be a slim possibility i might be wrong about his version and as i didn't really care either way i just didn't put much thought into it, i used to joke with him that when zeus or jesus came to lunch and actually answered some questions then i would believe in one or the other, he always laughed and said he had sent the r.s.v.p but had not heard back yet,
as for how he got to where he is with out me, i don't know if this explains or not but here goes,
back then if he wanted me to go to church i did and if i wanted to sleep in he stayed home and we slept in, but some where along the way he met a preacher from Michigan who moved to our little middle GA spot in the road and fell in love, yes fell in love or at least gives all appearances of it,

for about a year i thought he had a girl friend, the late night phone calls, the hang up calls, working longer than normal, places he just had to go without me, a private email Addy when he had never needed one before, just a lot of little things that added up to affair and oh how i wish thats what it had been,

i am not a jealous kinda person and he had had an affair a few years before,he was pretty torn up about it but it was just something that happened and it was over so he went a counsler and worked it out,
then the new one started, the only problem was it was not what i thought and the conman jerk had plenty of time to get his claws in deep,
i don't think i ever had a chance even after i found out and after about 2 years of frustration i left,
i let him talk me into getting back together because i loved him and he cooled the nonsense for awhile, by the time i realized he was still caught up in it, i was starting to have some health problems and i had also taken in 3 kids who would have been thrown into the foster care system if i left again,also our 3 kids were still at home along with 2 new grandbabies and assorted boy/girlfriends( we had 11 kids in the house at the time)
so we worked a compromise, he left me alone and i left him alone,
we did not discuss religion or politics and he left the kids strictly to me and it worked just fine, up until last year when i had to quit taking care of kids and we moved to a smaller place to take some stress off of me physically,

now we are at the chick stage again and i was raving a good bit this morning,
i normally don't "unload" like that but i was pretty frustrated with the track thing,
the only way i would ever get "born again" is if they figure out how to literally reincarnate me, there is no way i could check my brain at the door and buy into the garbage his church spews forth, i have hope that maybe his common sense will eventually reassert itself but that hope is almost gone so i guess that also led to my ranting this morning
i have suggested a counselor but he is adamant that we do not need one, he did volunteer his preacher to come talk to me, that went over like a lead balloon, i know what that man is and snake oil salesmen doesn't begin to cover it,

thank you for taking time to answer me, just reading and then answering has helped lighten my mood alot as it feels like i'm not as cut off as i was feeling
thanks

[gypsey]

fuelair


thanks fuelair i hope so too, oh and i think Cthulhu rocks:D

[gypsey]

slingblade


that was the one i used when i did leave when this started, worked too:cool:
there i was thinkin it was the bbq kittens the dark side had going for it:confused: :)

[gypsey]

Mark A. Siefert

i wish i were able:(

[Kochanski]

I do understand what you are saying gypsey, feel free to come and rant to us when things get to be too much.

I still think you should get a big black marker and go to town on the chick tract, it could be lots of fun for you :D

That and get yourself one of the t shirts that say "When the rapture comes can I have your car?" :D

[kurious_kathy]

Even the bible is on your side, or the side of Splitsville, anyway.

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? And what communion hath light with darkness?" 2 Corinthians 6:14 (KJV)
Hey sling don't forget about what 1 Cor.7:13-15 says... And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy. Yet if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave; the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases, but God has called us to peace.

So how do you know in this case,the man is a believer and the wife not ,what if gypsy will be saved through her husbands faith? I still try to understand these issues more myself but I do know God sees the two as one and surely wants neither to perish. So what do you think about that?

[D'rok]

Hey sling don't forget about what 1 Cor.7:13-15 says... And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy. Yet if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave; the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases, but God has called us to peace.

So how do you know in this case,the man is a believer and the wife not ,what if gypsy will be saved through her husbands faith? I still try to understand these issues more myself but I do know God sees the two as one and surely wants neither to perish. So what do you think about that?


Wow. Lurking a little on this thread. After all that's been posted here up until now, I have to say that this is one of the most offensive bits of tripe I have every had the displeasure of reading on these forums.

Best wishes gypsey.

[grayman]

Maybe kurious_kathy and your husband could hook up and solve several problems at once. :)

[slingblade]

Wow. Lurking a little on this thread. After all that's been posted here up until now, I have to say that this is one of the most offensive bits of tripe I have every had the displeasure of reading on these forums.


She's like that. She manages to offend everyone very quickly.

She'll probably do a two-week show (with matinees) and then flake off...er, take off again. Until she decides to grace us with her never-changing, never-learning, ever-clueless schpiel once more.

[gypsey]

Kochanski
I do understand what you are saying gypsey, feel free to come and rant to us when things get to be too much.

I still think you should get a big black marker and go to town on the chick tract, it could be lots of fun for you

That and get yourself one of the t shirts that say "When the rapture comes can I have your car?"

thank you:th: it does feel good to have a place to come to where people are so kind, i actually had a bumper sticker like that but it got ruined somehow:eek:

[gypsey]

D'rok the Lacone
Best wishes gypsey.

thank you :D


grayman
Maybe kurious_kathy and your husband could hook up and solve several problems at once.

i have lurked here for quite awhile and have to admit that through several threads where kk has posted the thought of introducing hubby to her popped into my head:degrin:
they seem to have so much stupidity in common, but do you think that 2 self centered self righteous narcissistic people could get along or would that be to much ego for anything to develop:wackyunsure:

[gypsey]

slingblade
Originally Posted by D'rok the Lacone
Wow. Lurking a little on this thread. After all that's been posted here up until now, I have to say that this is one of the most offensive bits of tripe I have every had the displeasure of reading on these forums.
She's like that. She manages to offend everyone very quickly.

She'll probably do a two-week show (with matinees) and then flake off...er, take off again. Until she decides to grace us with her never-changing, never-learning, ever-clueless schpiel once more.

:wackynotworthy:

[Zep]

For a start, G, you could save up those tracts, then use then as fire-starters of a cold evening. Burn them right up in front of him. Make sure he sees you using them, and that they are all gone. That way they can't ever be used again, you give him a slap in the face, and he may just get a clue.

Chances are he won't try to give them to you again after that. ;)

Other than that, I would second the opinions of seeking legal options about going your own way, and kicking him to the curb. Already you are acting as though you are divorced - you have lost respect for him and don't wish his company. Put it this way: If you were single and met him today, would you consider being married to him? If not, why are you still married now?

I'm sure there are decent affordable options for insurance and other expenses outside of being married to him. And he wants to ditch that lifeline anyway and let God provide (Q: Does that mean his fundie ways are now seriously jeopardising his income??).

Good luck!

And again, this is the opinion of someone anonymous on the internet. Please seek your own reliable support network, and/or a good lawyer!

[gypsey]

Zep
For a start, G, you could save up those tracts, then use then as fire-starters of a cold evening. Burn them right up in front of him. Make sure he sees you using them, and that they are all gone. That way they can't ever be used again, you give him a slap in the face, and he may just get a clue.

Chances are he won't try to give them to you again after that.

:degrin: i love this idea, we used to have bonfires at my daughters place every few weeks but haven't been able to lately( because it's so dry) so i could take them with me for the next one, we are always looking for more stuff to burn:D



Good luck!

thank you :)

[CapelDodger]

gypsey : I recommend The Battle For God by Karen Armstrong

http://www.amazon.com/Battle-God-Karen-Armstrong/dp/0345391691

for an insight into fundamentalism and its attractions.

The fundamentalism you're describing is, as Armstrong would put it, bad religion. And it's bad science. It's just bad. Aberrant.

Your husband has sunk deeper and deeper into a comfort-zone, which is why you won't shift him. By now his high opinion of himself simply blows away whatever your opinion might be. That's the antithesis of a healthy relationship.

What he's got into isn't religious at all. Religion is about feelings, shared rituals, myths and stories that reinforce communities. Your husband - and his fundie ilk - reduce themselves to legalisms and absolutes. They try to defend myth by logic. Missing the point entirely.

Real religion underpins human societies by reflecting them. It makes allowances. It's not in conflict with science or logic, there's no field they could meet on. Fundie religion isn't religion at all, it's just an alternative science that puts fundies at centre-stage.

[gypsey]

CapelDodger
gypsey : I recommend The Battle For God by Karen Armstrong

http://www.amazon.com/Battle-God-Kar.../dp/0345391691

for an insight into fundamentalism and its attractions.

The fundamentalism you're describing is, as Armstrong would put it, bad religion. And it's bad science. It's just bad. Aberrant.

Your husband has sunk deeper and deeper into a comfort-zone, which is why you won't shift him. By now his high opinion of himself simply blows away whatever your opinion might be. That's the antithesis of a healthy relationship.

What he's got into isn't religious at all. Religion is about feelings, shared rituals, myths and stories that reinforce communities. Your husband - and his fundie ilk - reduce themselves to legalisms and absolutes. They try to defend myth by logic. Missing the point entirely.

Real religion underpins human societies by reflecting them. It makes allowances. It's not in conflict with science or logic, there's no field they could meet on. Fundie religion isn't religion at all, it's just an alternative science that puts fundies at centre-stage.

thank you i will see about getting it this week, it sounds like it will at least help me to understand this better
i don't know enough about fundamentalism to make any comments on the rest but it seems to fit a lot of what i see in him now
until he turned fundy i had never dealt with any one who was this way, everyone i knew with one or two exceptions was christian to varying degrees but no fundies so i was kind of thrown by it at first and it still amazes me that people can act this way and think it's normal and right

[wolfgirl]

Other than that, I would second the opinions of seeking legal options about going your own way, and kicking him to the curb. I strongly third this opinion. At least talk to a lawyer to find out what your options are. Depending on your circumstances, you may be able to have him continue to provide your health insurance if there is a divorce. There are a lot of options available to women that don't require them to stay trapped in a bad marriage. (And this from someone who thinks everyone should try to stay married if they can, but recognizes that sometimes they can't.)

[Madalch]

i love this idea, we used to have bonfires at my daughters place every few weeks but haven't been able to lately( because it's so dry) so i could take them with me for the next one, we are always looking for more stuff to burn
And if he doesn't get the message with that, toss his bible in the next one.

[wolfgirl]

thank you i will see about getting it this week, it sounds like it will at least help me to understand this better
i don't know enough about fundamentalism to make any comments on the rest but it seems to fit a lot of what i see in him now
until he turned fundy i had never dealt with any one who was this way, everyone i knew with one or two exceptions was christian to varying degrees but no fundies so i was kind of thrown by it at first and it still amazes me that people can act this way and think it's normal and rightgypsey, I really sympathize with you. I'm lucky enough that my hubby and I are both atheists, but one of my grown sons is a fundy. It really breaks my heart to remember that we used to sit around the table talking politics and philosophy and religion, and we used to agree on most of it. Then he began dating a fundy girl when he was about 19 or 20, his first really serious adult relationship. He started going to church and Bible study with her, and soon he was quoting the same nonsense that we had previously made fun of together. He and the girl broke up, but he stayed that way, and now at age 27, he's both religious and right-wing conservative. The only way I can deal with it, quite honestly (since I can't divorce him!), is to not talk about it at all. We have basically just agreed to disagree. Every once in a while, he'll make some remark about some topic (gay marriage is one), and I just grit my teeth and try to ignore it. But seriously and honestly, it breaks my heart. I didn't raise him to be so ignorant. I always hope that someday I'll have the nerve to really talk to him about it, but I know it won't do any good.

So I guess my advice would be, if you're going to stick it out (my real advice is still to talk to a lawyer), to just agree to disagree. There's nothing you can do to fix someone else's warped view of the world if they're that deeply into it. You have to ignore it as best you can and live around it.

[kurious_kathy]

So I guess my advice would be, if you're going to stick it out (my real advice is still to talk to a lawyer), to just agree to disagree. There's nothing you can do to fix someone else's warped view of the world if they're that deeply into it. You have to ignore it as best you can and live around it. Ditto WF, but I'm on the same side as your son and wish God would turn you around to see that scripture is right and everything outside of Christ leads to death! I'm sorry if this seems harsh to you and others here, but it's very true and the day of judgemnet is coming.

One question...If people really knew they were on their way to hell why would they choose to go there? Why wouldn't people want to repent of all their sins and be saved through Christ?

[grayman]

One question...If people really knew they were on their way to hell why would they choose to go there? Why wouldn't people want to repent of all their sins and be saved through Christ?

Because it's fantasy. The only way to know is through proof. And nobody, not you, not me, not anybody alive on this planet truly knows what happens after death. And I refuse to waste my time praying to a non-existent entity just because he happens to be the popular one to supplicate at this historical point.

Zeus, Odin, Jupiter, Camalus, Bel, Myrrdin, Belobog, An, and countless others have been worshiped in the past as being real. No longer.

As to your God and irrational, unsubstantiated belief, this too shall pass.

[wolfgirl]

Ditto WF, but I'm on the same side as your son and wish God would turn you around to see that scripture is right and everything outside of Christ leads to death! I'm sorry if this seems harsh to you and others here, but it's very true and the day of judgemnet is coming.

One question...If people really knew they were on their way to hell why would they choose to go there? Why wouldn't people want to repent of all their sins and be saved through Christ?You can't "know" any such thing. You can only "believe" it. Well, we don't "believe" it, so we don't "choose" to go there, we "choose" not to believe in fairy tales. Thanks for playing.

[ponderingturtle]

I'm sure there are decent affordable options for insurance and other expenses outside of being married to him.

This is unfortunately not necessarily true, I have heard of plans costing up to $3000 a month for people with prior medical histories.

[kerikiwi]

The religious mind never fails to amaze me.

Jehovah (to whom Kathy seems to be referring ... surely not one of the other deities humans have invented) clearly does not want Gypsey to see that christian scripture (surely not the scripture of any of the other religions humans have invented) is right and everything outside of Christ leads to death, or Jehovah would already have caused Gypsey to see that. So how can Kathy oppose the will of Jehovah by wishing he would do something he clearly does not want to do?

[Beth]

gypsey,

I am sorry to hear of your troubles. It's a lonely place to be when you feel you cannot discuss the issues that mean the most to you with the one person who means the most to you. Have you considered discussing your feelings and options with a counselor. It sounds like the last few years have been difficult ones for you. It can really help to have a third party who is dispassionate about the situation give suggestions about what you can do to either change your situation or help you feel better about it. Good luck and please let us know how things go.

[wolfgirl]

gypsey,Have you considered discussing your feelings and options with a counselor. It sounds like the last few years have been difficult ones for you. It can really help to have a third party who is dispassionate about the situation give suggestions about what you can do to either change your situation or help you feel better about it.Actually, gypsey, this is what I would suggest, too, now that I think about it, before talking to a lawyer. See if there is some way to either go to counseling together, or if that's impossible, get counseling yourself. I would certainly rather see the marriage be saved if that's even possible, if there's some way to make him see what he's doing to you. (Yes, I do change my mind a lot...it's one of the things I'm working on, but I keep changing my mind about how to approach it. :))

[kurious_kathy]

Because it's fantasy. The only way to know is through proof. And nobody, not you, not me, not anybody alive on this planet truly knows what happens after death. And I refuse to waste my time praying to a non-existent entity just because he happens to be the popular one to supplicate at this historical point.

Zeus, Odin, Jupiter, Camalus, Bel, Myrrdin, Belobog, An, and countless others have been worshiped in the past as being real. No longer.

As to your God and irrational, unsubstantiated belief, this too shall pass.

GOD GAVE ME ALL THE PROOF I NEED, AND IF HE CAN DO IT FOR ME I'M SURE HE CAN DO IT FOR YOU IF YOU WOULD QUIT BEING SO STUBBORN IN YOUR CHOICE TO NOT BELIEVE.

Heaven and earth will pass away but God's Word NEVER will! All other Gods are false and impersonal, not Jesus. He truly is the only way to the Father.

[slingblade]

GOD GAVE ME ALL THE PROOF I NEED, AND IF HE CAN DO IT FOR ME I'M SURE HE CAN DO IT FOR YOU IF YOU WOULD QUIT BEING SO STUBBORN IN YOUR CHOICE TO NOT BELIEVE.

When all else fails, scream at people.

[kurious_kathy]

When all else fails, scream at people.
Sorry, I know it's a weakness of mine when I want to make a point with people. Yesterday I got loud in the kitchen with the kids when I was sharing some of what the Bible says about not reading horoscopes, going to psychics, messing around with tarot cards or anything pertaining to the occult. I can't help but get loud about it now that I see through God's Word how bad those things are. In the past when I did those things I was clueless to what scripture taught about those things being wrong. Now it's a strong personal conviction I just can't help but get voicedross about.
God help us all know the truth that sets us free!

[The Great Hairy One]

God help us all know the truth that sets us free!


Yes, free from the mind-crushing and will-sapping dross that is religion.

Cheers,
TGHO

[slingblade]

Sorry, I know it's a weakness of mine when I want to make a point with people. Yesterday I got loud in the kitchen with the kids when I was sharing some of what the Bible says about not reading horoscopes, going to psychics, messing around with tarot cards or anything pertaining to the occult. I can't help but get loud about it now that I see through God's Word how bad those things are. In the past when I did those things I was clueless to what scripture taught about those things being wrong. Now it's a strong personal conviction I just can't help but get voicedross about.
God help us all know the truth that sets us free!

If it makes you feel any better, most of us don't ascribe to any of that crap, either.

Nothing you have ever said here, KK, has ever compelled anyone to take you seriously. And it's not likely to in future. You're flogging.



http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_5604466e6f7518af6.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=6330)

[grayman]

Sorry, I know it's a weakness of mine when I want to make a point with people. Yesterday I got loud in the kitchen with the kids when I was sharing some of what the Bible says about not reading horoscopes, going to psychics, messing around with tarot cards or anything pertaining to the occult. I can't help but get loud about it now that I see through God's Word how bad those things are. In the past when I did those things I was clueless to what scripture taught about those things being wrong. Now it's a strong personal conviction I just can't help but get voicedross about.
God help us all know the truth that sets us free!

You don't mess with horoscopes or the occult, good for you! Is this because you realize they are worthless superstitions or just because the Bible told you so?

The truth will set you free. Truth is, there is absolutely no proof that there is a God or any mythical being out there watching over us. God only exists in people's imagination because they can not accept the fact that religion was created to explain the unknown. The more we advance, the more we know. The more we know, the more we realize religion is an unnecessary, superstitious crutch.

[pgwenthold]

GOD GAVE ME ALL THE PROOF I NEED, AND IF HE CAN DO IT FOR ME I'M SURE HE CAN DO IT FOR YOU IF YOU WOULD QUIT BEING SO STUBBORN IN YOUR CHOICE TO NOT BELIEVE.



I thought God was "all-powerful" or something like that?

I have asked before, and ask again: If God can give YOU "all the proof you need," why does he not give ME all the proof _I_ need? Apparently, what he has provided so far (such as witnesses like you) have been lacking.


God, in his omniscience, knows very well what it would take to get me to believe in him. Heck, he was the one who created me, so he was the one who made me this way. Thus, given that he has given me this gift of thought, why does he not want me to use it? In fact, wouldn't it be sinful to not utilize my god-given talents to the best of my ability? As such, I conclude that, if God exists, then it would be a sin for me to believe it.

You apparently are lucky. You claim God has provided you with proof of his existence. However, others (including me) have not been given that proof, so how can you blame us for not believing as you do? Instead of wasting your time here preaching to us, you should be praying, asking God to provide us with the proof that he has given to you.

If God can reveal himself to you, why doesn't he do it to us?

[pgwenthold]

gypsey

I concur with the others who have suggested you look into options for your life. If nothing else, you need to confront your husband seriously. Something like, "I'm not happy" is a good way to start.

If there are any questions about the sanctity of a marriage vow, or something like that, remember that things have changed since you have been married. You have undoubtedly changed in some ways, and he has absolutely changed.

If he loves you, and is actually concerned about your happiness, he must listen. If he won't listen, and won't try to do anything to help, then what does it tell you about his feelings for you?

You got married because you thought he considered you the most important thing in his life. Now, his priorities have changed (even if he says that God was the most important thing back then, it is still true that his priorities have changed, with you dropping down). You are well within your rights to let him know that you deserve happiness, and to get that from him you need to be a higher priority in his life.

Life is too short to be stuck in a relationship where you are miserable. First try to make the relationship not miserable. In order to do that, you have to confront the problem, and that means letting him know.

[Ladewig]

GOD GAVE ME ALL THE PROOF I NEED, AND IF HE CAN DO IT FOR ME I'M SURE HE CAN DO IT FOR YOU IF YOU WOULD QUIT BEING SO STUBBORN IN YOUR CHOICE TO NOT BELIEVE.

Heaven and earth will pass away but God's Word NEVER will! All other Gods are false and impersonal, not Jesus. He truly is the only way to the Father.

What would your response be if I told you that Shiva (from the Hindu pantheon) gave me all the proof I need and I'm sure Shiva can do it for you if you would quit being so stubborn? I'm not joking. I want to know what your response is to people who ask you to convert to a religion that you consider to be completely without foundation and evidence.

[triadboy]

... but I do know God sees the two as one and surely wants neither to perish.

Xians always know the unknowable.

[gypsey]

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_10651466eac0a4eaac.gif (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=6332)

this image is now posted on my fridge in 8x10 size and he hasn't said anything but he is being very quiet on religion again, i also gave him the track back with a little note telling him that i didn't approve of the message it gave and that unless he wanted to really get into a discussion he should keep the tracks to himself, they have all dissapeared from the house, i guess he moved them to his vehicle,
thank you to everyone who responded to my whining, it really helped to clear my head and decide what to do

wolfgirl Originally Posted by Beth
gypsey,Have you considered discussing your feelings and options with a counselor. It sounds like the last few years have been difficult ones for you. It can really help to have a third party who is dispassionate about the situation give suggestions about what you can do to either change your situation or help you feel better about it. Actually, gypsey, this is what I would suggest, too, now that I think about it, before talking to a lawyer. See if there is some way to either go to counseling together, or if that's impossible, get counseling yourself. I would certainly rather see the marriage be saved if that's even possible, if there's some way to make him see what he's doing to you. (Yes, I do change my mind a lot...it's one of the things I'm working on, but I keep changing my mind about how to approach it. )
Beth and wolfgirl
i have sugessted counseling for us but he will only talk with his preacher, there aren't many options in our area so i talk to my doctor a lot, he has been our family doc for about 16 years and knows us all and he is very kind calm and has a lot of common sense:cool: he helps keep my head screwed on straight
thank you for being so nice:D

[gypsey]

Madalch Originally Posted by gypsey
i love this idea, we used to have bonfires at my daughters place every few weeks but haven't been able to lately( because it's so dry) so i could take them with me for the next one, we are always looking for more stuff to burn
And if he doesn't get the message with that, toss his bible in the next one.

:dl:
i just might do that!!

[gypsey]

pgwenthold gypsey

I concur with the others who have suggested you look into options for your life. If nothing else, you need to confront your husband seriously. Something like, "I'm not happy" is a good way to start.

If there are any questions about the sanctity of a marriage vow, or something like that, remember that things have changed since you have been married. You have undoubtedly changed in some ways, and he has absolutely changed.

If he loves you, and is actually concerned about your happiness, he must listen. If he won't listen, and won't try to do anything to help, then what does it tell you about his feelings for you?

You got married because you thought he considered you the most important thing in his life. Now, his priorities have changed (even if he says that God was the most important thing back then, it is still true that his priorities have changed, with you dropping down). You are well within your rights to let him know that you deserve happiness, and to get that from him you need to be a higher priority in his life.

Life is too short to be stuck in a relationship where you are miserable. First try to make the relationship not miserable. In order to do that, you have to confront the problem, and that means letting him know.

i have actually sat him down and talked about everthing that is going on, i tried to stay very calm and reasonable, i asked if he was so involved in that cult because of something i wasn't doing or was doing at home, i can be a real pain and i know it so i thought maybe i was the cause for him seeking something more or different, he swore that it was just something in him,
of course he said the same thing when he had the affair all those years ago:(

and just for the record i don't cut him out of my life in anything except the religon and politics, the kids and i try to include him in as many activities as we can but he is a truck driver so we only see him at night and sundays after church
in spite of the fundy !@%^ i still love the man he was and when he leaves off preaching my hubby sometimes still peeks out of the shell:p

it is just hard to deal with sometimes and it really hurts when he's got his "preach on" but coming here really helps
thanks:)

[gypsey]

please if i missed replying to anyone i am very sorry but kk's posts really screwed up the whole thread for me, she is such a self righteous selfish hateful arrogant kinda person that i can't seem to concentrate on the rest, i get enough of that nonsense around here:mad:
to everyone thank you very much




p.s
kk all i can say to you is i feel so sorry for those children you mention, of all the things to raise your voice about what a silly trivial bit of nonsense, your poor poor family

[pgwenthold]

it is just hard to deal with sometimes and it really hurts when he's got his "preach on" but coming here really helps
thanks:)


I'm glad to hear that you have confronted it, but don't forget, he needs to make you a priority. If he knows that it hurts you when he has his "preach on," then, if he loves you as he should, he won't do it.

And if that works, then all is much better.

[l0rca]

Sorry, I know it's a weakness of mine when I want to make a point with people. Yesterday I got loud in the kitchen with the kids when I was sharing some of what the Bible says about not reading horoscopes, going to psychics, messing around with tarot cards or anything pertaining to the occult. I can't help but get loud about it now that I see through God's Word how bad those things are. In the past when I did those things I was clueless to what scripture taught about those things being wrong. Now it's a strong personal conviction I just can't help but get voicedross about.
God help us all know the truth that sets us free!


You're such a silly trout.

"If you only knew what I knew."

LMAO! Do you know how much more devoted fundamental Muslims are, how much more emotionally fullfilled they are, than you and your ilk? Muslims formally pray 5 times a day! They consider themselves in a mode of prayer constantly. You must be one of the most arrogant people alive, to think that your emotions are more important and revealing about issues than other people and their religions are. The average fundamental Muslim is direct evidence right under your nose that there is a different religion out there that, according to your criteria of truth, is more true than yours.

LOL... what about Buddhists monks? When you're so spiritually moved to deny yourself life and become completely devoted to your spiritual perspective, then you can come and rant off about how you're "so much more moved" than everybody else.

[ponderingturtle]

:dl:
i just might do that!!

but would he notice? How often does he read it and how much of it does he read?

[ponderingturtle]

please if i missed replying to anyone i am very sorry but kk's posts really screwed up the whole thread for me, she is such a self righteous selfish hateful arrogant kinda person that i can't seem to concentrate on the rest, i get enough of that nonsense around here:mad:
to everyone thank you very much


Put her on ignore and change you settings to that people you have on ignore posts do not even show up.

This can give strange results though as people sometimes seem to be arguing with themselves.

[supercorgi]

please if i missed replying to anyone i am very sorry but kk's posts really screwed up the whole thread for me, she is such a self righteous selfish hateful arrogant kinda person that i can't seem to concentrate on the rest, i get enough of that nonsense around here:mad:
to everyone thank you very much

p.s
kk all i can say to you is i feel so sorry for those children you mention, of all the things to raise your voice about what a silly trivial bit of nonsense, your poor poor family

All KK does is preach her fundy BS. And often she's quite hateful to people. For example, she told Fowlsound that he got cancer in order to become closer to god. She also implied to Slingblade that she was responsible for her very absusive husband. If she really upsets you, you can add her to your ignore list by clicking on her name and selecting the ignore option.

You have my sympathies about your situation.

[slingblade]

Gypsey, I like that cartoon! Nicely pithy. ;)

And try not to mind KK. Do put her on ignore; that's good advice. She's the sort of fundie I personally loathe: a control freak who's willing to yell at total strangers, so she can feel all righteous and good about herself and her battle against the heathen. She also can't spell "boisterous" to save her life, and thinks it's "voicedross."

I understand the situation you're in, Gypsey. Supercorgi mentioned my abusive ex. His abuse was Fundy-christian fueled. And he used all that crap in 2 Corinthians that misogynist Paul puked up. He even used to hit me in the head with the bible while screaming at me to "submit."

They don't get much more submissive than I am, as a result of all that. Nor much more self-loathing. :(

I take it we may be around the same age; I also have a 27-year-old son, and one who is 28. My youngest is still Christian, but doesn't seem Fundy, and my eldest is agnostic.

My biggest worry for you, Gypsey, is the control issue. My experience with Fundies has shown me that men who are drawn to it love that control, especially over women. Now, I know I don't know everything about your situation, so I'm speaking out of my experience, only. If it doesn't apply to you, that's fine. I hope with all my heart it never does apply to you.

My experience says his control issues are only going to get worse. For you. He is being taught that he is the head of your household, and that you should be obedient to him, even as the church is obedient to god. And as far as fundies are concerned, your husband is the church; not you.

Thus, my advice to you is simple. I fully understand about not being able to leave, but if he starts getting more controlling, it will only get worse, not better. Just keep your eyes open, and be thinking about ways and means to get out of it, in the future. You'd be surprised at what you can change when you really have to--even things you thought couldn't be changed, ever.

So hang in there, and hang onto you. It's really easy to lose yourself in that belief system.

Hugs, Gypsey. :hug5

[Tanstaafl]

They don't get much more submissive than I am, as a result of all that. Nor much more self-loathing. :(

:hug2

Just trying to cancel out a little of the self-loathing...

[kerikiwi]

For a brief second there I thought people were referring to me when they were talking about 'KK'.

[Tanstaafl]

Wow, that must have scared the bejeezus out of you!

[gypsey]

ponderingturtle

Originally Posted by gypsey

i just might do that!!
but would he notice? How often does he read it and how much of it does he read?

he carries it with him everywhere, calls it it his sword, he also has a new testament that he carries
he reads every night but i don't think he comprehends a lot of what he is reading, he has always hated reading and is one of those who has to read out loud to himself to get any thing from it, i hate being in the same room when he tries to read anything, he is very smart and very well educated but reading is a chore for him, he got into a biblical debate with our oldest daughter once and she owned him :cool:
none of our kids are religious but they all read and learned a lot of the bible in self defense so they actually know more about what he "loves" than he does

as for kk, she is like a bad accident to me, i can't seem to look away even though i know i should :jaw-dropp



supercorgi

Originally Posted by gypsey
please if i missed replying to anyone i am very sorry but kk's posts really screwed up the whole thread for me, she is such a self righteous selfish hateful arrogant kinda person that i can't seem to concentrate on the rest, i get enough of that nonsense around here
to everyone thank you very much

p.s
kk all i can say to you is i feel so sorry for those children you mention, of all the things to raise your voice about what a silly trivial bit of nonsense, your poor poor family

All KK does is preach her fundy BS. And often she's quite hateful to people. For example, she told Fowlsound that he got cancer in order to become closer to god. She also implied to Slingblade that she was responsible for her very absusive husband. If she really upsets you, you can add her to your ignore list by clicking on her name and selecting the ignore option.

You have my sympathies about your situation.

yeah i knew about the hateful things she said to fowlsound and to slingblade and it really upset me as i have a lot of respect for both, i lurked around here for a long time before i registered and even though i don't post a lot i read everything pretty much,
as for kk i hope for her families sake that she eventually opens her eyes to the pain she cause's others and the evil she spouts in the name of god

thank you for the nice thoughts:D

[gypsey]

slingblade

Gypsey, I like that cartoon! Nicely pithy.

And try not to mind KK. Do put her on ignore; that's good advice. She's the sort of fundie I personally loathe: a control freak who's willing to yell at total strangers, so she can feel all righteous and good about herself and her battle against the heathen. She also can't spell "boisterous" to save her life, and thinks it's "voicedross."

I understand the situation you're in, Gypsey. Supercorgi mentioned my abusive ex. His abuse was Fundy-christian fueled. And he used all that crap in 2 Corinthians that misogynist Paul puked up. He even used to hit me in the head with the bible while screaming at me to "submit."

They don't get much more submissive than I am, as a result of all that. Nor much more self-loathing.

I take it we may be around the same age; I also have a 27-year-old son, and one who is 28. My youngest is still Christian, but doesn't seem Fundy, and my eldest is agnostic.

My biggest worry for you, Gypsey, is the control issue. My experience with Fundies has shown me that men who are drawn to it love that control, especially over women. Now, I know I don't know everything about your situation, so I'm speaking out of my experience, only. If it doesn't apply to you, that's fine. I hope with all my heart it never does apply to you.

My experience says his control issues are only going to get worse. For you. He is being taught that he is the head of your household, and that you should be obedient to him, even as the church is obedient to god. And as far as fundies are concerned, your husband is the church; not you.

Thus, my advice to you is simple. I fully understand about not being able to leave, but if he starts getting more controlling, it will only get worse, not better. Just keep your eyes open, and be thinking about ways and means to get out of it, in the future. You'd be surprised at what you can change when you really have to--even things you thought couldn't be changed, ever.

So hang in there, and hang onto you. It's really easy to lose yourself in that belief system.

Hugs, Gypsey.

thank you so much i thought it got the point across :)
as for kk like i told ponderingturtle she is like a wreck about to happen for me, you want to look away but morbid curiosity keeps you looking :eek:
she's defiantly a control freak for sure, i feel so sorry for the children she talks about

i can't imagine raising my voice at any of my children for something so stupid and i yell at mine quite frequently for the stupid stuff they pull even though they are grown :D
my son is 26 and my girls are 25 and 22 and that's just the 3 that are blood related, i have at last count 13 that call me mom ranging from 9 to 29,
kk talks about how rough she had things and i think she is full of something cause i've seen what suffering is and god hasn't done anything for me or any of those kids, it was all done on their own with a little support and help from someone who understood them, no rule 8 gods needed

words from a stranger on line might not mean much slingblade but i want you to know i admire you a lot you have always been one of my favorite posters since i started lurking here and i think you are much stronger than you know, you have more common sense and strength than 90% of the people i interact with in real life and i would be proud to call you friend

i'm going to try to put these thoughts into words without sounding too harsh and still make sense so here goes

i have suspected some things about h for a long time now and i think it explains him pretty good, i believe he is bi-sexual and that he would be the submissive partner if he could, it is pushing him to be "the man" of the family and i think thats why it is so important to him that i be "in my place"
he doesn't push it as hard as that sounds though since last year when i quit handling all the day to day "head of house" stuff like paying bills and dealing with all the yardwork and repairs, that only lasted 2 months:D

i really believe that was why he had an affair before he found religion and when we started the counseling back then that was the main reason the therapist and i decided i should let him continue alone
i had hoped that if he could work it out in counseling he would have been happier and i was more than capable of standing on my own then and even though it sounds cliché i really did love him so much that i just wanted him to be happy
i think a lot of the actions and attitude i see now stem from him trying to prove what a "man" he is and his fear that he would be cut off from his father or from the kids because of it, i don't know about how his father would handle it but the kids would be fine, they are some pretty open minded and amazing people if i do say so myself
knowing this tempers my emotions somewhat when dealing with him but i let it get to me sometimes and thats what happened the other morning when i started this thread

this isn't saying anything against how you handled things slingblade but if he ever hit me with his bible he would be eating it!!i am pretty passive most of the time too but somethings i just can't handle and i will fight back and physical abuse of any kind is crossing the line
he does try the macho "me tarzan you jane" thing and i just picture him in his pretty house dress and smile :big:
i am hanging onto me as hard as i can and knowing i can come here helps me to hang on and i know it sounds stupid but i really do have hope that someday he will snap out of the nonsense

hugs to you too slingblade and thank you for talking to me
:hug4

[gypsey]

kerikiwi

For a brief second there I thought people were referring to me when they were talking about 'KK'.

i am so sorry for scaring you kerikiwi:blush:
i shorten her name because she's not worth typing it out:decool:

[kurious_kathy]

LMAO! Do you know how much more devoted fundamental Muslims are, how much more emotionally fullfilled they are, than you and your ilk? Muslims formally pray 5 times a day! They consider themselves in a mode of prayer constantly. You must be one of the most arrogant people alive, to think that your emotions are more important and revealing about issues than other people and their religions are. The average fundamental Muslim is direct evidence right under your nose that there is a different religion out there that, according to your criteria of truth, is more true than yours.
No I think this guy takes the cake...In an open letter to President George Bush, Ahmadi-nejad invited Bush to become a Muslim; then later said in an interview, "Those who refuse to accept an invitation to good will (to follow Islam) will not have a good ending or fate." You don't see president Bush making that kind of threat.

I would say Christians have a right to be condfident because no matter what happens God is faithful. Oh and by the way the Muslims Allah isn't the same God. Jesus is real and personal, Mohammad just another phony! You can tell the difference if you are open to the truth. Jesus Saves!

[Hokulele]

I would say Christians have a right to be condfident because no matter what happens God is faithful. Oh and by the way the Muslims Allah isn't the same God. Jesus is real and personal, Mohammad just another phony! You can tell the difference if you are open to the truth. Jesus Saves!


When pride comes, then comes shame; but with the humble is wisdom. - Proverbs 11:2

You might want to work on that humility a bit.

[Zep]

No I think this guy takes the cake...In an open letter to President George Bush, Ahmadi-nejad invited Bush to become a Muslim; then later said in an interview, "Those who refuse to accept an invitation to good will (to follow Islam) will not have a good ending or fate."He sounds just like you! You don't see president Bush making that kind of threat. Actually, you do.

I would say Christians Muslims have a right to be condfident because no matter what happens God is faithful. Oh and by the way the Muslims Allah Christian god isn't the same God. Jesus Mohammad is real and personal, Mohammad Jesus just another phony! You can tell the difference if you are open to the truth.Do a little edit and you sound just like a fundie Muslim. Don't you.

Jesus Saves!...but Mohammed scores on the rebound!

[Kochanski]

I would say Christians have a right to be condfident because no matter what happens God is faithful. Oh and by the way the Muslims Allah isn't the same God. Jesus is real and personal, Mohammad just another phony! You can tell the difference if you are open to the truth. Jesus Saves!

And how do you know? How do you know that the Muslim view of god is not correct? Or the views of Buddists or Hindus? Or any one of oh so many religions man has created on this world of ours? How do you know that you aren't completely and utterly wrong, that there is no god at all? What are you going on beyond the words in a very old book written by men? How do you know it is not all their delusions that you are following? Do you have proof of any god?

Stop preaching and give proof.

Don't mean to derail gypsey's thread but kk does present an excellent example of the fundy mentality ;)

[wolfgirl]

In an open letter to President George Bush, Ahmadi-nejad invited Bush to become a Muslim; then later said in an interview, "Those who refuse to accept an invitation to good will (to follow Islam) will not have a good ending or fate." There has been widespread disagreement about whether the part of the letter you're referring to was a call for Bush to convert to Islam or whether it was simply his calling on their shared faith in God as a means to establish dialogue. You don't see president Bush making that kind of threat.No, Bush (I refuse to call him president; he's not MY president) doesn't make threats, he just goes right ahead and starts wars...
Oh and by the way the Muslims Allah isn't the same God. Jesus is real and personal, Mohammad just another phony!Muslims do recognize Jesus, but they just don't think he's the son of God, just one of many prophets.

[wolfgirl]

"Those who refuse to accept an invitation to good will (to follow Islam) will not have a good ending or fate."
He sounds just like you!Zep, good catch! That is exactly what kk says to us all the time, isn't it? "Those who refuse to accept an invitation to good will (to follow Christianity) will not have a good ending or fate." She's always telling us that if we don't accept whatever it is Jesus is supposed to be offering us, we will suffer in hell for eternity.

kk is Ahmadinejad!!!

[kurious_kathy]

There has been widespread disagreement about whether the part of the letter you're referring to was a call for Bush to convert to Islam or whether it was simply his calling on their shared faith in God as a means to establish dialogue. No, Bush (I refuse to call him president; he's not MY president) doesn't make threats, he just goes right ahead and starts wars...
Muslims do recognize Jesus, but they just don't think he's the son of God, just one of many prophets.

Oh pleeeeeas wg don't tell me you are going to defend the bad guy. He makes threats all the time to the US. Some people will not pull there heads out of the sand even when the truth is obvious. Iran can't wait to nuke the US so wake up!

[Zep]

Oh pleeeeeas wg don't tell me you are going to defend the bad guy. He makes threats all the time to the US. Some people will not pull there heads out of the sand even when the truth is obvious. Iran can't wait to nuke the US so wake up!You're totally dippy, aren't you! A looney of the first water! :D

Seriously, please explain how Iran is going to nuke the USA. Given that they don't have the weapons, they don't have the rockets, they don't even have the planes to do it. Do you think they are going to send these non-existent nukes by email, perhaps? Your answer will be fascinating, I'm sure!

[wolfgirl]

Oh pleeeeeas wg don't tell me you are going to defend the bad guy. He makes threats all the time to the US. Some people will not pull there heads out of the sand even when the truth is obvious. Iran can't wait to nuke the US so wake up!Excuse me, but how exactly is Iran going to nuke us when they don't have nukes? We, on the other hand, do have nukes and are the only country who has ever used them on another country's civilian population. And we have been fairly openly threatening Iran for a while now. So don't give me that juvenile "good guy, bad guy" nonsense. Regardless of what I may think of Ahmadinejad, I know that Bush is an as-shole of the highest ranking.

I'm not sure how anything I said was "defending the bad guy," by the way I simply said that there is disagreement about the meaning of his letter. You, however, choose to simply believe whatever your preacher and your husband told you it meant.

[Babylon Sister]

Oh pleeeeeas wg don't tell me you are going to defend the bad guy. He makes threats all the time to the US. Some people will not pull there heads out of the sand even when the truth is obvious. Iran can't wait to nuke the US so wake up!

Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.

[joobz]

Oh pleeeeeas wg don't tell me you are going to defend the bad guy. He makes threats all the time to the US. Some people will not pull there heads out of the sand even when the truth is obvious. Iran can't wait to nuke the US so wake up!
I too do not trust Iran's government. Ahmadinejad is definitely using Bush's idiotic policies to shore up his control. the sad thing is, Iran's people were/are close to being democratic. We can't help them now, because of our poor image there. So, there is no chance of helping encourage a democracy there for some time. I think Bush's policies are beyond moronic and we'll be paying for them for years to come. And to think, he won his second term because so many people hated the idea of gays marrying. It saddens me how far out of wack people's priorities are.

BTW, wolfgirl is correct, in that Muslims do respect Jesus as a prophet. Your utter rejection of islam without knowing it is further evidence that you possess all the personality trait requirments that the islamic terrorists possess.

[Achán hiNidráne]

Iran can't wait to nuke the US so wake up!


With what?

While I don't doubt that Iran wants nuclear weapons, they have no means to deliver them to North America. No ICBMs. No long range bombers. No ballistic missile subs.

How are the Iranians going to nuke the United States? Have a flock of swallows carry the warheads? (If so, African or European swallows?)

[Madalch]

With what?

While I don't doubt that Iran wants nuclear weapons, they have no means to deliver them to North America. No ICBMs. No long range bombers. No ballistic missile subs.

How are the Iranians going to nuke the United States? Have a flock of swallows carry the warheads?

Now, it's entirely possible that if they had a nuke, they could put it in a shipping container and smuggle it into some port (hey it worked in that Schwarzenegger movie True Lies, right?). However, if they did that, they would succeed in taking out one major city. Out of about a hundred.

This would be a major blow to the USA, but it would not disable the American military. Said military would be able to drop one nuclear bomb on every city in Iran without significantly diminishing its arsenal. The entire Middle East would be flat, black, and glowing in the dark before CNN figured out what had happened in whatever American city had been hit.

And every leader in the Middle East knows it.

So the Iranian president (I've had too much wine to even try to spell his name) wouldn't dream of nuking the USA. Ever. He's not nearly as insane as Bush would like us to believe, just as Bush isn't as stupid as he pretens to be.

[kerikiwi]

You don't see president Bush making that kind of threat.

I have no idea whether or not Bush makes that kind of threat, but you certainly do Kathy:
"everything outside of Christ leads to death! I'm sorry if this seems harsh to you and others here, but it's very true and the day of judgemnet is coming.

One question...If people really knew they were on their way to hell why would they choose to go there?"

And you are absolutely, spectacularly wrong when you claim that the god of the Muslims is not the same as the god of the christians: the muslim, jewish and christian gods are one and the same.

[l0rca]

He sounds just like you! Actually, you do.

Do a little edit and you sound just like a fundie Muslim. Don't you.

...but Mohammed scores on the rebound!

Pretty much. And I would add that since the Muslims are more spiritually reinforced in thier faith than Christians are, than Christianity must be a lie -- according to your reasoning, Katy.

(She caught the Katy, and left me a muuuuule to riiiide...)

[Flo]

Your utter rejection of islam without knowing it is further evidence that you possess all the personality trait requirments that the islamic terrorists possess.


Her utter rejection of any human qualities is further evidence that she possesses all the personality traits required from psychopaths, from whom fundamentalist religions everywhere recruit terrorists ...

[Flo]

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_10651466eac0a4eaac.gif (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=6332)

this image is now posted on my fridge in 8x10 size and he hasn't said anything but he is being very quiet on religion again, i also gave him the track back with a little note telling him that i didn't approve of the message it gave and that unless he wanted to really get into a discussion he should keep the tracks to himself, they have all dissapeared from the house, i guess he moved them to his vehicle,

Well done ! :clap: Keep fighting back and puting the pressure on.

thank you to everyone who responded to my whining, it really helped to clear my head and decide what to do

What whining ? That was at worst venting ... ;)

[LostAngeles]

gypsey, let me just say that from what I've read you're too much of a hot s^%$ for this guy. :D I echo the suggestions about a lawyer. Life's too short to deal with needless crap. But if you can work it out with him and live in peace as a fundy and an agnostic, more power to you.

And as for KK and Her Jerk Version of Yahweh?

http://www.roflcat.com/images/cats/where.jpg (http://www.roflcat.com)

[CapelDodger]

So the Iranian president (I've had too much wine to even try to spell his name) wouldn't dream of nuking the USA. Ever. He's not nearly as insane as Bush would like us to believe ...

It's good to see such sense posted, even on a derail. Wossname-dinnerjacket doesn't even have control over foreign policy, all he can do is talk big, which is cheap and easy to deliver - unlike all the domestic promises he's signally fallen down on.

I don't doubt Iran wants nukes - they're looking at other people's north, south, east and west of them. Would it be more dangerous than Pakistan having them - as they do? Look at the place. A failed state, with nukes. Why no cold sweats? As if that needs to be asked ...

What's really scary is the idea of kurious_kathy's type gaining real influence in the US. It won't happen, of course. They may have thought that Bush Minor's presidency was Mission Accomplished, but they've been sorely disappointed. Turns out it was actually about oil :) .

[CapelDodger]

Her utter rejection of any human qualities is further evidence that she possesses all the personality traits required from psychopaths, from whom fundamentalist religions everywhere recruit terrorists ...

"Psychopath" is inaccurate. Some of the recruiters may be psychopaths, but they recruit from the same impressionable age-range that all cults home in on, late-teens to early-twenties. Not psychopaths, but prey. There but for the grace of our superior intellects go you or I :) .

[St_Hereticus]

he is into jack chick
I don't know if this has been posted, I haven't had time to read the whole thread, but you might enjoy this:
Jack T. Chick Parody Archive (http://www.weirdcrap.com/chick/)

[kurious_kathy]

Pretty much. And I would add that since the Muslims are more spiritually reinforced in thier faith than Christians are,)
And doesn't that concern you? To me they are th ones that are being totally deceived by Satan. Here's another little tid bit from the VOM e-letter I got yesterday...
President Ahmadi-nejad follows a radical sect of Shi'a Islam that is awaiting the return of the "12th Imam," or the "Mahdi," a figure Shi'a Muslims believe will return to earth and usher in a time of peace and justice...after Islam has taken over domination of the world. When he was mayor of Tehran, Ahmadi-nejad advocated widening the roads in order to accommodate the Mahdi's triumphant entry into the city.

Iran's people are constantly hearing the messages of the Mahdi's return; but with the help of VOM readers, they are also hearing messages about another return: the return of Jesus Christ.

I am going to order their book "Iran Desperate For God" and help the gospel message get broadcast to Iran in hopes that many desperate Muslims will still come to faith before the anti-christ deceives them even more. Here's alink to some of what Voice of the Martyrs is doing to help others get the truth of Christ...http://etools.780net.com/a/vomso/bg_vomso_wdbm_290.html

[Ducky]

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/51754670b25a43edc.jpg

[l0rca]

And doesn't that concern you? To me they are th ones that are being totally deceived by Satan. Here's another little tid bit from the VOM e-letter I got yesterday...
President Ahmadi-nejad follows a radical sect of Shi'a Islam that is awaiting the return of the "12th Imam," or the "Mahdi," a figure Shi'a Muslims believe will return to earth and usher in a time of peace and justice...after Islam has taken over domination of the world. When he was mayor of Tehran, Ahmadi-nejad advocated widening the roads in order to accommodate the Mahdi's triumphant entry into the city.

Iran's people are constantly hearing the messages of the Mahdi's return; but with the help of VOM readers, they are also hearing messages about another return: the return of Jesus Christ.

I am going to order their book "Iran Desperate For God" and help the gospel message get broadcast to Iran in hopes that many desperate Muslims will still come to faith before the anti-christ deceives them even more. Here's alink to some of what Voice of the Martyrs is doing to help others get the truth of Christ...http://etools.780net.com/a/vomso/bg_vomso_wdbm_290.html

So, what you're telling me is, even when Satan is lying about it actually being him, he still fills people with more Holy enthusiasm than the real god ever does?

I don't think that's true. Actually, I think it's much more likely that you're the one following Satan. Look at these facts:

1) Fundamental Muslims in the third world live a life of poverty, always giving to their neighbor, and praying to God, and loving everyone they possibly can every day. American Christians live a life with a whole lot more riches than anyone in Jesus' time could ever dream of, and our Christian political leaders lie when they're in office. Our last Christian leader even committed sodomy at the political altar of our nation!

2) Unlike humble, spiritual Muslims who receive more emotional and spiritual love back from their prayers than you ever will, your God is totally fake, Satan's evil puppet, and just using you to contribute to a capitalist war engine. Muslims choose to stay poor and in the Holy Land, and only attack other countries that want to take the Holy Land away from God's true people, the average Muslim. You fake Satan God uses your vote and taxes to constantly attack, rob, and scare other countries into doing what Satan wants.

How can you call their God Satan when even your Bible says they act more like God's people than you do? They are always honest and loving, and remain poor, but in God's Holy Land, while entire oceans separate you. The land you live on, you live on because former Americans slaughtered an entire continent of real American Indians who were more pious, loving, honest, poor and spiritual than you were. You really do follow Satan Kathy. What do you say about that?

And then after you read this, you might even start praying, or thinking about Satan being close to you, to help ignore the obvious truth! My God! I wish I could save you with the love than is Islam. But alas. I am an atheist. I suppose you and I are both going to HELL.

[grayman]

President Ahmadi-nejad follows a radical sect of Shi'a Islam that is awaiting the return of the "12th Imam," or the "Mahdi," ...

... but with the help of VOM readers, they are also hearing messages about another return: the return of Jesus Christ.



And both have the same chance of returning: NONE!

They are not coming back. Ever. Get over it and move on.

As long as the superstitious rule, mankind's potential shall be limited.

[Zep]

From your linked site, KK:She was on medication for depression when she first saw the TV broadcasts, and couldn't believe how joyful the Christians on TV appeared.You're not a happy person at all KK, but you're one of the "saved", so you tell us. So it seems lying to Iranians is OK, as long as it is in the christian god's name.

Hypocrite.

[Flo]

"Psychopath" is inaccurate. Some of the recruiters may be psychopaths, but they recruit from the same impressionable age-range that all cults home in on, late-teens to early-twenties. Not psychopaths, but prey. There but for the grace of our superior intellects go you or I :) .

You're right, it's usually the recruiters who are psychopaths. I credit my boredom with relligious nonsense more than my intellect for not having been attracted to the kind of nonsense KK is spouting ;)

[gypsey]

kurious_kathy
Oh pleeeeeas wg don't tell me you are going to defend the bad guy. He makes threats all the time to the US. Some people will not pull there heads out of the sand even when the truth is obvious.

i bolded the part you are so right about kk :czagree:
you are a wonderful example of this very thing :decool:

[gypsey]

i only have a couple minutes so i will try to get back here in the morning and answer everyone
just wanted ya'll to know i hadn't skipped out because of kk :whistling

[slingblade]

Good! Cuz we would be sad. :)

[sackett]

Maybe kurious_kathy and your husband could hook up and solve several problems at once. :)

Bad idea. They might have children.

[gypsey]

Flo

Well done ! Keep fighting back and puting the pressure on.


thanks Flo I will

What whining ? That was at worst venting ...

:D

[gypsey]

LostAngeles
gypsey, let me just say that from what I've read you're too much of a hot s^%$ for this guy. I echo the suggestions about a lawyer. Life's too short to deal with needless crap. But if you can work it out with him and live in peace as a fundy and an agnostic, more power to you.


And as for KK and Her Jerk Version of Yahweh?

thank you LostAngeles :blush:
i love that picture and it is now printed and hanging below the other on my fridge :cool:

[gypsey]

slingblade Good! Cuz we would be sad.
:hug4 thank you


sackett Originally Posted by grayman
Maybe kurious_kathy and your husband could hook up and solve several problems at once.
Bad idea. They might have children.

:eye-poppi :eek: :jaw-dropp thats the scariest thing i've heard all week :D

[Elentar]

Kathy:

Ahmadinejad is attempting to provoke an American attack on Iran. It's his only chance to avoid being sacked in the next election, probably the only chance that the extremists will have to prevent the moderates from winning, and Bush is the only President dumb enough to do it. They're betting (and I suspect they're on to something here) that the war in Iraq has so sapped the American military that Bush won't be able to do enough damage to threaten Ahmadinejad himself.

So Ahmadinejad is on a tight schedule here, and the more crap he can stir up, the better chance he has of provoking an attack--but the worse are his chances of getting re-elected. He's a raving loon, and his people know it. This is a really good time to do nothing.

Gypsy:

This may be a little drastic, but have you thought of fighting fire with fire? Sick a Jesuit on his ass. It turns out that the Catholics are the best fundy busters (http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/08/hmmm_no_wonder_the_religious_r.php) in the business--and he might even talk to one. After all, Catholics are fellow Christians, right?

Oh, wait... I forgot, the rabid freaks at Chic think Catholics are in league with the devil....

When is the medical establishment going to recognize fundamentalism as a serious mental ailment, and come up with a treatment for it?

[Paulhoff]

You don't see president Bush making that kind of threat.
No, he just kills them.

I would say Christians have a right to be condfident because no matter what happens God is faithful. Oh and by the way the Muslims Allah isn't the same God. Jesus is real and personal, Mohammad just another phony! You can tell the difference if you are open to the truth. Jesus Saves
This is so funny, they say the same thing about you.

Paul

:) :) :)

No good religion came out of the Middle-East.